I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

CaveLamb wrote:
I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next
couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?

What are the wheels like?
are they steel or ali?
do they have slots or holes?
between the rim and the center section?
1/4in steel cable wound around the tyre through the slots or holes will
work for a while, tho you will need some cable clamps to secure the
ends. always risky at the best of times.
If it breaks or wears through it might just foul on the brake pipes
and rip them out.
Do you have to travel?

We had ice and heavy snow back in Dec ,here in the UK, and I had a set
of snow chains put by just in case. My better half has to go to houses
as part of her care in the community service so im the chauffer if the
roads are impassable with her car.
then I get pleasure getting about when everyone else is stuck.
Ted
In Dorset
UK.

Chains won't fit on most newer cars due to suspension and fender
clearance issues. No market for them anymore. Besides, when a chain
fails, it beats the crap out of your car. I've got studded snows for
the Rabbit diesel-goes anywhere as long as is doesn't high-center.
You can always throw cables on the snows too.
JR
Dweller in the cellar


On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 00:38:01 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?

Ted Frater wrote:
CaveLamb wrote:
I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any
more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next
couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?

What are the wheels like?
are they steel or ali?
do they have slots or holes?
between the rim and the center section?
1/4in steel cable wound around the tyre through the slots or holes will
work for a while, tho you will need some cable clamps to secure the
ends. always risky at the best of times.
If it breaks or wears through it might just foul on the brake pipes and
rip them out.
Do you have to travel?

We had ice and heavy snow back in Dec ,here in the UK, and I had a set
of snow chains put by just in case. My better half has to go to houses
as part of her care in the community service so im the chauffer if the
roads are impassable with her car.
then I get pleasure getting about when everyone else is stuck.
Ted
In Dorset
UK.



Sorry Ted in Dorset, they are mags. (Came with the truck)

Me? I can stay home all winter, but SIL has to get into the office.

The highways are (WERE!) fairly clear, but we have a 60 foot hill
to climb on the way home.

I didn't make it up this evening (I hate when that happens).

I did ok the last few days, but there were other idiots on the home
hill this evening and I had to try from a dead stop.
We found an alternate route home. I can't take that one out because it
has an even higher hill on the southbound side of the interstate.

Wallyworld had one set (count it - 1) set of chains in the store
(for 20,000 customers!). But they were for large truck tires and had
fancy auto-tensioners.


--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

JR North wrote:
Chains won't fit on most newer cars due to suspension and fender
clearance issues. No market for them anymore. Besides, when a chain
fails, it beats the crap out of your car. I've got studded snows for
the Rabbit diesel-goes anywhere as long as is doesn't high-center.
You can always throw cables on the snows too.
JR
Dweller in the cellar



I checked with a couple of tire stores today for studded tires.
Nada...



On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 00:38:01 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?


--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

CaveLamb wrote:
I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next
couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?


http://www.tirechain.com/

They are in PA and ship all over the US. Shipping is VERY reasonable for
most sets and they have a variety in stock. Prices are good as well.

I've bought 5 sets for various items and they have always come through.

--
Steve W.

CaveLamb wrote:
JR North wrote:
Chains won't fit on most newer cars due to suspension and fender
clearance issues. No market for them anymore. Besides, when a chain
fails, it beats the crap out of your car. I've got studded snows for
the Rabbit diesel-goes anywhere as long as is doesn't high-center.
You can always throw cables on the snows too.
JR
Dweller in the cellar



I checked with a couple of tire stores today for studded tires.
Nada...



On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 00:38:01 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any
more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next
couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?



OK,
If it were me I wouldnt give up yet.
How about another set of wheels ,say steels from a breakers yard?
You could then do something with those, and keep them for future winters,
Or get for the other half say a small 4wd Suzuki vitara, tho this
time of the year everyone wants them for the same reason as you do!!.
As a last resort, leave the truck on the clearway, and walk back and
forth, if its not too far.
Just a few random thoughts.
Probably useless!!
Ted..

CaveLamb wrote:

I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any more!

Nobody in Texas carries them in house, but they are readily available
online.


The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next couple
of days.

It will start melting Saturday when it finally gets above freezing.


Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)

It's supposed to be above freezing during the day Saturday through
Tuesday.


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?

The ice on the roads will be gone before you can buy or build tire
chains.

CaveLamb wrote:

JR North wrote:
Chains won't fit on most newer cars due to suspension and fender
clearance issues. No market for them anymore. Besides, when a chain
fails, it beats the crap out of your car. I've got studded snows for
the Rabbit diesel-goes anywhere as long as is doesn't high-center.
You can always throw cables on the snows too.
JR
Dweller in the cellar


I checked with a couple of tire stores today for studded tires.
Nada...

Do what the ice racers do, get a set of crummy tires and put sheet metal
screws in them. About the only thing you'll be able to do before the ice
is gone in a few days.

On Feb 4, 1:38*am, CaveLamb wrote:
I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)

Any advice on making a set of tire chains?

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: *http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

Our mail truck sports chains when the road is icy. So you might see
if you can make contact with whoever does the mail truck maintenance.

Dan

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
CaveLamb wrote:
I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any
more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next
couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?


http://www.tirechain.com/

They are in PA and ship all over the US. Shipping is VERY reasonable for
most sets and they have a variety in stock. Prices are good as well.

I've bought 5 sets for various items and they have always come through.

--
Steve W.

I got the chains for my snowblower from Vulcan Tire.
http://www.vulcantirechains.com/
Tire chains on a car are a bitch though... I had one break at about 25
mph and literally destroyed the wheelwell/fender on my car.
Studded tires have been illegal here for about 40 years.

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 03:26:20 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

JR North wrote:
Chains won't fit on most newer cars due to suspension and fender
clearance issues. No market for them anymore. Besides, when a chain
fails, it beats the crap out of your car. I've got studded snows for
the Rabbit diesel-goes anywhere as long as is doesn't high-center.
You can always throw cables on the snows too.
JR
Dweller in the cellar



I checked with a couple of tire stores today for studded tires.
Nada...

Taxi?

Newb

If the chains are breaking, they're probably loose. Like
this: http://metalworking.com/dropbox/chains.jpg.

I've driven literaly hundreds of miles on chains and NEVER
had one break from running. Had some worn 3/4 of the way
through the link when replaced.

These things have to be TIGHT

As in, if you can force a pry bar between chain and tire,
its too loose.

Potholes and cattleguards, are 'nother story, they will
break a link just looking at the chains

gary





Chains won't fit on most newer cars due to suspension and fender
clearance issues. No market for them anymore. Besides, when a chain
fails, it beats the crap out of your car. I've got studded snows for
the Rabbit diesel-goes anywhere as long as is doesn't high-center.
You can always throw cables on the snows too.

wrote:
If the chains are breaking, they're probably loose. Like
this: http://metalworking.com/dropbox/chains.jpg.

I've driven literaly hundreds of miles on chains and NEVER
had one break from running. Had some worn 3/4 of the way
through the link when replaced.

These things have to beTIGHT

As in, if you can force a pry bar between chain and tire,
its too loose.

Potholes and cattleguards, are 'nother story, they will
break a link just looking at the chains

gary





Chains won't fit on most newer cars due to suspension and fender
clearance issues. No market for them anymore. Besides, when a chain
fails, it beats the crap out of your car. I've got studded snows for
the Rabbit diesel-goes anywhere as long as is doesn't high-center.
You can always throw cables on the snows too.


Long ago I worked in a garage and in the winter I was the one that
installed tire chains. The first thing you do is inspect the chains and
replace any worn or broken links. Lay them on the ground behind the car
and then back the car over them so that the link ends of the chain are
just sticking out from under the front of the tire. Pull the chains
over the tire and lock the link.. Let some air out of the tire, move
the vehicle a little and re-tighten the links. Fill the tire back up
with air and put the spreaders on. Check the tightness after a mile of
driving.

or

get a spare set of tires and mount the chains on them, preferably snow
tires.

Also, make sure you have extra weight over the driving axle... a couple
of sand bags and shovel in the trunk, Another trick is to carry a
couple of containers of salt from the food store in the trunk to apply
to the wheels when getting slightly stuck.


John

John on Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:46:04 -0500 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

get a spare set of tires and mount the chains on them, preferably snow
tires.

Also, make sure you have extra weight over the driving axle... a couple
of sand bags and shovel in the trunk, Another trick is to carry a
couple of containers of salt from the food store in the trunk to apply
to the wheels when getting slightly stuck.

Kitty litter. If you have cats, you can use it in the summer, if
not, give it to your friends (or the local shelter.)

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

John wrote:

Also, make sure you have extra weight over the driving axle... a couple
of sand bags and shovel in the trunk, Another trick is to carry a
couple of containers of salt from the food store in the trunk to apply
to the wheels when getting slightly stuck.


John

All good advice, of course.

Last night, about half way up the hill, we came to a slippery stop.
I put the transmission in park, set the parking brake and stepped out
to see what I could see. When I closed the door, the car started
sliding backwards down the hill! All four wheels locked!!!

!

I rescued us by backing down the hill - slightly in control and skating
off for a different route.

It was a bit slick.

Today we have about 5" of new snow on top of that.

And a big fire in the fireplace. Damn the CO2!

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

CaveLamb wrote:

John wrote:

Also, make sure you have extra weight over the driving axle... a couple
of sand bags and shovel in the trunk, Another trick is to carry a
couple of containers of salt from the food store in the trunk to apply
to the wheels when getting slightly stuck.


John

All good advice, of course.

Last night, about half way up the hill, we came to a slippery stop.
I put the transmission in park, set the parking brake and stepped out
to see what I could see. When I closed the door, the car started
sliding backwards down the hill! All four wheels locked!!!

!

I rescued us by backing down the hill - slightly in control and skating
off for a different route.

It was a bit slick.

Today we have about 5" of new snow on top of that.

And a big fire in the fireplace. Damn the CO2!


I blame Al Gore.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On Feb 3, 11:38*pm, CaveLamb wrote:
I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)

Any advice on making a set of tire chains?

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: *http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

You probably don't have any mountains handy. In CA, chains were
mandatory for anyone going through the Sierra passes during snows,
chains readily available in surrounding towns. I can still remember a
Porsche zipping by at 75 with the chains going whappety-whap at Donner
Pass. Installing chains didn't also install brains in that case.
Speed limit was supposed to be 25 when chained up.

They're still available and there's some cable types that work on
alloy wheels. You just have to be in the right area to be able to
get them off the shelf.

My take is that if it's that miserable out, I'll hole up until it gets
better out there. Longest it's been has been 4 days here and no one
else was moving, either. Chains wouldn't have helped with 4' of snow.

Stan

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any
more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next
couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?

--

Richard Lamb

Yes, don't. It's a waste of time and money. IIRC, don't you live in a
place where you need snow chains once every twenty years? Just wait for the
global warming, and if you get tired of waiting, call AlGore to come down
and breathe some hot air to melt the ice.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
Download the book.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 07:52:30 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

CaveLamb wrote:
I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next
couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?


http://www.tirechain.com/

They are in PA and ship all over the US. Shipping is VERY reasonable for
most sets and they have a variety in stock. Prices are good as well.

I've bought 5 sets for various items and they have always come through.

Exactly my experience buying a set of large chains in an obsolete tire
size for a '53 Farmall.

--
Ned Simmons

JR North wrote:

Chains won't fit on most newer cars due to suspension and fender
clearance issues. No market for them anymore. Besides, when a chain
fails, it beats the crap out of your car. I've got studded snows for
the Rabbit diesel-goes anywhere as long as is doesn't high-center.
You can always throw cables on the snows too.

I wish Michigan allowed studded tires. I constantly hear, if it only saves one life,
isn't it worth it when someone is pushing gun control but when it comes to driving down an
icy road, something working people have to do to get to work, maintenance costs of
highways rule over human life.

wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

CaveLamb wrote:

Last night, about half way up the hill, we came to a slippery stop.
I put the transmission in park, set the parking brake and stepped out
to see what I could see. When I closed the door, the car started
sliding backwards down the hill! All four wheels locked!!!

I had to walk 4 miles home one morning when I ran into clear ice on a hilly road. I
couldn't get enough traction to even center the car on the crown of the road, everything I
tried just kept me sliding off to the shoulder.

Sounds like things are horrible down in Texas from what I've been reading on the web.

Try to stay safe, some trips are not worth it, I speak from experience, I was in a head on
collision in early december doing some optional Christmas shopping in bad weather and I
know how to drive in winter.

Wes

Steve B wrote:
"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any
more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next
couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?

--

Richard Lamb

Yes, don't. It's a waste of time and money. IIRC, don't you live in a
place where you need snow chains once every twenty years? Just wait for the
global warming, and if you get tired of waiting, call AlGore to come down
and breathe some hot air to melt the ice.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
Download the book.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com



copy that.

But when you do need them, you need them real bad!


--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
CaveLamb wrote:
John wrote:

Also, make sure you have extra weight over the driving axle... a
couple
of sand bags and shovel in the trunk, Another trick is to carry a
couple of containers of salt from the food store in the trunk to apply
to the wheels when getting slightly stuck.

All good advice, of course.

Last night, about half way up the hill, we came to a slippery stop.
I put the transmission in park, set the parking brake and stepped out
to see what I could see. When I closed the door, the car started
sliding backwards down the hill! All four wheels locked!!!

I rescued us by backing down the hill - slightly in control and skating
off for a different route.

It was a bit slick.

Today we have about 5" of new snow on top of that.

And a big fire in the fireplace. Damn the CO2!

I blame Al Gore.

Nah, he's just the pope of the church of warmingism.

Mother Nature is the most inexorable Denialist there is. ;-D

Cheers!
Rich

CaveLamb wrote:
Steve B wrote:
"CaveLamb" wrote in message

I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any
more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next
couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)

Any advice on making a set of tire chains?

Yes, don't. It's a waste of time and money. IIRC, don't you live in a
place where you need snow chains once every twenty years? Just wait for
the global warming, and if you get tired of waiting, call AlGore to come
down and breathe some hot air to melt the ice.

But when you do need them, you need them real bad!

So, if you buy a set of chains that will fit your car's tires, and don't
need them for 19 years, but replace the car, can you trade in the old chains
on ones that fit the new car?

Or are they sort of a "one-size-fits-all" kind of thing?

(I've obviously never used chains.)

Thanks,
Rich

CaveLamb wrote:
Steve B wrote:
"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any
more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next
couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)


Any advice on making a set of tire chains?

--

Richard Lamb

Yes, don't. It's a waste of time and money. IIRC, don't you live in a
place where you need snow chains once every twenty years? Just wait
for the global warming, and if you get tired of waiting, call AlGore
to come down and breathe some hot air to melt the ice.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
Download the book.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com



copy that.

But when you do need them, you need them real bad!




Chains are like a fire extinguisher, when you need one you need it
bad, otherwise they are in the way.

John

On Feb 5, 2:10*pm, Wes wrote:
JR North wrote:
Chains won't fit on most newer cars due to suspension and fender
clearance issues. No market for them anymore. Besides, when a chain
fails, it beats the crap out of your car. I've got studded snows for
the Rabbit diesel-goes anywhere as long as is doesn't high-center.
You can always throw cables on the snows too.

I wish Michigan allowed studded tires. *I constantly hear, if it only saves one life,
isn't it worth it when someone is pushing gun control but when it comes to driving down an
icy road, something working people have to do to get to work, maintenance costs of
highways rule over human life.

wes
--

But studs are only good for one condition, glare ice. For the other
99% of the time, they tear up the roads and increase stopping
distance. I can remember going down Iowa secondary roads in winter
where the farmers ran studs all year round. Two icy troughs on each
side of the road, not so hot for driving. There's a reason they were
banned except for emergency vehicles. So not that great an idea. If
it's that bad out there, DON'T GO!

Stan

On Feb 5, 5:16*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
CaveLamb wrote:
Steve B wrote:
"CaveLamb" wrote in message

I've tried everybody within reach, but nobody carries tire chains any
more!

The roads are 4" deep in glare ice, and snow is forecast for the next
couple
of days.

Plus another couple of weeks of Ice Age (global warming)

Any advice on making a set of tire chains?

Yes, don't. *It's a waste of time and money. *IIRC, don't you live in a
place where you need snow chains once every twenty years? *Just wait for
the global warming, and if you get tired of waiting, call AlGore to come
down and breathe some hot air to melt the ice.

But when you do need them, you need them real bad!

So, if you buy a set of chains that will fit your car's tires, and don't
need them for 19 years, but replace the car, can you trade in the old chains
on ones that fit the new car?

Or are they sort of a "one-size-fits-all" kind of thing?

(I've obviously never used chains.)

Thanks,
Rich- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Chains are sized for the tire size, if the circumference remains the
same, they can be used on different vehicles. In the Sierras, you
could rent them on one side and return them on the other. If the tire
size changes, you've got some scrap unless you can find another sucker
to buy them. I scrapped several sets from the 50s and 60s when I
cleaned out the grandparents' place. All for old skinny tire sizes
that nobody uses anymore. And if you have rubber chain tighteners,
after 19 years they'd be worthless anyway. Managed to collect a whole
stack of new chain storage bags, too, another somewhat useless item
these days. I use them for storing and handling lead ingots, work
well for that.

Stan

Wes wrote:

CaveLamb wrote:

Last night, about half way up the hill, we came to a slippery stop.
I put the transmission in park, set the parking brake and stepped out
to see what I could see. When I closed the door, the car started
sliding backwards down the hill! All four wheels locked!!!

I had to walk 4 miles home one morning when I ran into clear ice on a hilly road. I
couldn't get enough traction to even center the car on the crown of the road, everything I
tried just kept me sliding off to the shoulder.

Sounds like things are horrible down in Texas from what I've been reading on the web.

Try to stay safe, some trips are not worth it, I speak from experience, I was in a head on
collision in early december doing some optional Christmas shopping in bad weather and I
know how to drive in winter.

Wes

Things are much better today, it got above freezing this morning and has
pretty much remained above freezing since then. I think it will be right
near freezing tonight up here, but down in Dallas it will probably stay
a degree or two above so things should be in decent shape tomorrow. I
drove over to Ft. Worth and back today and the roads were pretty clear,
just some ice on the shoulders mostly.

On Feb 5, 7:12*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
CaveLamb wrote:
John wrote:

Also, *make sure you have extra weight over the driving axle... a
couple
of sand bags and shovel in the trunk, * * Another trick is to carry a
couple of containers of salt from the food store in the trunk to apply
to the wheels when getting slightly stuck.

All good advice, of course.

Last night, about half way up the hill, we came to a slippery stop.
I put the transmission in park, set the parking brake and stepped out
to see what I could see. *When I closed the door, the car started
sliding backwards down the hill! *All four wheels locked!!!

I rescued us by backing down the hill - slightly in control and skating
off for a different route.

It was a bit slick.

Today we have about 5" of new snow on top of that.

And a big fire in the fireplace. *Damn the CO2!

* *I blame Al Gore.

Nah, he's just the pope of the church of warmingism.

Mother Nature is the most inexorable Denialist there is. ;-D

Cheers!
Rich- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You really don't have a clt the differe betwe"weather" and "climate"
do you.

rangerssuck wrote:
On Feb 5, 7:12*pm, Rich Grise wrote:

Mother Nature is the most inexorable Denialist there is. ;-D

You really don't have a clt the differe betwe"weather" and "climate"
do you.

Uh, yeah:
---quote---
Definitions of climate on the Web:

* the weather in some location averaged over some long period of
^^^^^^^^^^^
time; "the dank climate of southern Wales"; "plants from a cold clime travel
best in winter"
* the prevailing psychological state; "the climate of opinion"; "the
national mood had changed radically since the last election"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* Climate encompasses the statistics of temperature, humidity,
atmospheric pressure, wind, rainfall, atmospheric particle count and
numerous other meteorological elements in a given region over long periods
of time. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate

* In viticulture, the climates of wine regions are categorized based on
the overall characteristics of the area's climate during the growing
season. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_(wine)

* An area of the earth's surface between two parallels of latitude; A
region of the Earth; The long-term manifestations of weather and other
atmospheric conditions in a given area or country, now usually represented
by the statistical summary of its weather conditions during a period long
enough ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/climate

* climatic - of or relating to a climate; "climatic changes"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* Climates (?klimler) is the fourth feature film of the Turkish director
Nuri Bilge Ceylan. The film focuses on relationships; charting the decline
and possibility of renewal of a professional Istanbul couple, ?sa and
Bahar, played by Ceylan and his wife Ebru Ceylan. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climates_(film)

* Climate is the average weather conditions at a particular place over a
^^^^^^^
long period of time. Climate is the long-term predictable state of the
atmosphere. It is affected by physical features such as mountains, rivers,
positioning of the globe, plateaus, deserts, depressions and much more. ...
gei.newscorp.com/resources/glossary.html

* Between 75-86 degrees Fahrenheit (26-30 degrees Celsius) Averaging 81
degrees Fahrenheit (28 degrees Celsius)
guampedia.com/about-guam/

* The general or typical atmospheric conditions for a place and/or
period of time. Conditions include rainfall, temperature, thunderstorms,
lightning, freezes, etc.
www.climas.arizona.edu/forecasts/glossary.html

* Typical mediterranean climate, with hot dry summers and warm wet
winters. The average temperature is 18 degrees C. Snowfall is extremely
rare, and approximately 148 days of the year are clear and sunny.
http://www.armory.com/~turkiye/turke...mir/izmir.html

* ?limatic data for each MLRA was derived by joining digital spatial
maps of the MLRA boundaries with 1961-1991 climate data generated using
PRISM (Parameter-elevation Regressions on Independent Slopes Model). ...
soils.usda.gov/survey/geography/mlra/mlra_definitions.html

* the typical or expected (average) weather pattern, as opposed to the
^^^^^^^
actual weather at any given instant.
^^^^^^^
rredc.nrel.gov/solar/glossary/gloss_c.html

* meteorological conditions, including temperature, rainfall and wind,
that characteristically occur in a particular region.
http://www.climatesmart.qld.gov.au/g...ormed/glossary

* The prevailing or typical meteorological conditions and extremes of
any place or region.
gozowe.accountsupport.com/glossary.shtml

---/quote--- [emphasis mine]

Hope This Helps!
Rich

On Feb 6, 5:56*am, Rich Grise wrote:
rangerssuck wrote:
On Feb 5, 7:12*pm, Rich Grise wrote:

Mother Nature is the most inexorable Denialist there is. ;-D

You really don't have a clt the differe betwe"weather" and "climate"
do you.

Uh, yeah:
---quote---
Definitions of climate on the Web:

* * * the weather in some location averaged over some long period of
* * * ^^^^^^^^^^^
time; "the dank climate of southern Wales"; "plants from a cold clime travel
best in winter"
* * * the prevailing psychological state; "the climate of opinion"; "the
national mood had changed radically since the last election"
* * * wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* * * Climate encompasses the statistics of temperature, humidity,
atmospheric pressure, wind, rainfall, atmospheric particle count and
numerous other meteorological elements in a given region over long periods
of time. ...
* * * en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate

* * * In viticulture, the climates of wine regions are categorized based on
the overall characteristics of the area's climate during the growing
season. ...
* * * en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_(wine)

* * * An area of the earth's surface between two parallels of latitude; A
region of the Earth; The long-term manifestations of weather and other
atmospheric conditions in a given area or country, now usually represented
by the statistical summary of its weather conditions during a period long
enough ...
* * * en.wiktionary.org/wiki/climate

* * * climatic - of or relating to a climate; "climatic changes"
* * * wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* * * Climates (?klimler) is the fourth feature film of the Turkish director
Nuri Bilge Ceylan. The film focuses on relationships; charting the decline
and possibility of renewal of a professional Istanbul couple, ?sa and
Bahar, played by Ceylan and his wife Ebru Ceylan. ...
* * * en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climates_(film)

* * * Climate is the average weather conditions at a particular place over a
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *^^^^^^^
*long period of time. Climate is the long-term predictable state of the
atmosphere. It is affected by physical features such as mountains, rivers,
positioning of the globe, plateaus, deserts, depressions and much more. ....
* * * gei.newscorp.com/resources/glossary.html

* * * Between 75-86 degrees Fahrenheit (26-30 degrees Celsius) Averaging 81
degrees Fahrenheit (28 degrees Celsius)
* * * guampedia.com/about-guam/

* * * The general or typical atmospheric conditions for a place and/or
period of time. Conditions include rainfall, temperature, thunderstorms,
lightning, freezes, etc.
* * *www.climas.arizona.edu/forecasts/glossary.html

* * * Typical mediterranean climate, with hot dry summers and warm wet
winters. The average temperature is 18 degrees C. Snowfall is extremely
rare, and approximately 148 days of the year are clear and sunny.
* * *http://www.armory.com/~turkiye/turke...mir/izmir.html

* * * ?limatic data for each MLRA was derived by joining digital spatial
maps of the MLRA boundaries with 1961-1991 climate data generated using
PRISM (Parameter-elevation Regressions on Independent Slopes Model). ...
* * * soils.usda.gov/survey/geography/mlra/mlra_definitions.html

* * * the typical or expected (average) weather pattern, as opposed to the
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ^^^^^^^
*actual weather at any given instant.
* * * * ^^^^^^^
* * * rredc.nrel.gov/solar/glossary/gloss_c.html

* * * meteorological conditions, including temperature, rainfall and wind,
that characteristically occur in a particular region.
* * *http://www.climatesmart.qld.gov.au/g...ormed/glossary

* * * The prevailing or typical meteorological conditions and extremes of
any place or region.
* * * gozowe.accountsupport.com/glossary.shtml

---/quote--- [emphasis mine]

Hope This Helps!
Rich

Rich, you are the living embodyment of "if you can't dazzle them with
brilliance, baffle them with bull****."

To try to distort a single snowy winter into a rejection of global
climate change is to demonstrate a rather complete lack of
understanding of what climate is and how weather works.

On Feb 5, 11:47*pm, wrote:
...
But studs are only good for one condition, glare ice. *For the other
99% of the time, they tear up the roads and increase stopping
distance. *...
Stan

The studded tires I used in NH in the 70's weren't particularly great
in snow and unmpressive on bare wet or dry pavement. The rubber
compound seemed harder than on unstudded snow tires. They were on a
Beetle that I ran on frozen lakes and snowmobile trails.

I really like these:
http://www10.epinions.com/review/Mic...nt_12820123268

On ice they let my AWD CRV accelerate almost like on dry pavement.
Braking is good but I don't push it, and cornering is adequate. They
definitely have better forward than lateral traction due to the siping
pattern. That vehicle understeers in a slide anyway, that plus the
permanent AWD means I can't spin donuts.

They tend to float on deep slush, making the CRV slightly twitchy. I
suspect a less stable vehicle might have trouble there.

jsw

wrote:

But studs are only good for one condition, glare ice. For the other
99% of the time, they tear up the roads and increase stopping
distance. I can remember going down Iowa secondary roads in winter
where the farmers ran studs all year round. Two icy troughs on each
side of the road, not so hot for driving. There's a reason they were
banned except for emergency vehicles. So not that great an idea. If
it's that bad out there, DON'T GO!


http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...1_319103_7.pdf

It tends to support what you said.

Wes

On Feb 6, 10:15*am, Wes wrote:
wrote:
But studs are only good for one condition, glare ice. *For the other
99% of the time, they tear up the roads and increase stopping
distance. *I can remember going down Iowa secondary roads in winter
where the farmers ran studs all year round. *Two icy troughs on each
side of the road, not so hot for driving. *There's a reason they were
banned except for emergency vehicles. *So not that great an idea. *If
it's that bad out there, DON'T GO!

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...port_R791_3191...

It tends to support what you said.

Wes

Somewhat true, somewhat self-serving, as the use of studs amounts to
blaming the state for failure to maintain safe roads. Skidding
accidents around here happen mostly at low speeds and rarely cause
serious personal injury, thus the statistical comparison isn't valid.
Snowbanks make good soft guardrails.

Icing conditions were then and mostly still are unpredictable, so
schools open and people drive to work expecting either a cold rain or
snow & sleet. The last two ice storms that caused week-long power
outages here were PREDICTED to be rain.

When I rode a motorcycle I had an excellent close view of the road
surface and an incentive to dodge potholes, plus some connections to
state decision-makers such as my father.

The rough ruts that studded tires cause were visible, however many
potholes formed where pavement cracks crossed the higher areas beside
the wheel tracks and may have been started by snowplow blades.

jsw

On Feb 6, 9:19*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Feb 6, 10:15*am, Wes wrote:

wrote:
But studs are only good for one condition, glare ice. *For the other
99% of the time, they tear up the roads and increase stopping
distance. *I can remember going down Iowa secondary roads in winter
where the farmers ran studs all year round. *Two icy troughs on each
side of the road, not so hot for driving. *There's a reason they were
banned except for emergency vehicles. *So not that great an idea. *If
it's that bad out there, DON'T GO!

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...port_R791_3191...

It tends to support what you said.

Wes

Somewhat true, somewhat self-serving, as the use of studs amounts to
blaming the state for failure to maintain safe roads. Skidding
accidents around here happen mostly at low speeds and rarely cause
serious personal injury, thus the statistical comparison isn't valid.
Snowbanks make good soft guardrails.

Icing conditions were then and mostly still are unpredictable, so
schools open and people drive to work expecting either a cold rain or
snow & sleet. The last two ice storms that caused week-long power
outages here were PREDICTED to be rain.

When I rode a motorcycle I had an excellent close view of the road
surface and an incentive to dodge potholes, plus some connections to
state decision-makers such as my father.

The rough ruts that studded tires cause were visible, however many
potholes formed where pavement cracks crossed the higher areas beside
the wheel tracks and may have been started by snowplow blades.

jsw

Except when the snowbanks are at the bottom of 10' deep drainage
ditches. No guard rails on those secondary roads and the plows just
took off the snow on top, no way were they going to get to the bottom
of those ruts. Buncha folks ended upside down in the ditch after a
few freeze-thaw cycles. Potholes were generally patched pretty
quickly, but repaving waited for many years until the county had money
in the road budget. The state took care of the interstates and state
highways, the rest of the back roads were county problems. I believe
the Iowa DOT made their own study before the legislature passed the
ban, was sometime in the early '70s, IIRC. Before that, kids were
buying studded snow tires because it made it a lot easier to lay a
patch. My cousin used to do that, usually ended up throwing half the
studs after a week with the new rubber.

Stan