I've been looking at chain lately (3/8") and I've noticed something that so far, every hardware guy
says he's never seen before. On the box of chain, without exception, they all say "DO NOT use for
lifting or any situation where a life could be endangered if the chain fails.

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but what in the hell could a person use a 3/8" chain for that wasn't
potentially dangerous. If the chain has a rating of 6,500 pounds and breaks, someone is going to be
around!!!

Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making or is there actually different chain that
is approved for lifting and all the stuff at H.D., Lowes, Ace is made for something else... what I
don't know.

Any suggestions? :-)

James, Seattle

www.jameskelseystudios.com

In article , RainLover says...

Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making

Check out the 'chain' section of McMaster Carr. Some of them
are alloy chains rated for overhead lifting. Significantly more
expensive then hardware store crap from the orange buckets.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

You want chain designed for lifting? Sure, you can get it. It's what comes
on chainfalls and such. Will you ever find that in a hardware store? Forget it!

Oh, and if you are ever looking at a used chainfall missing its chain and
the seller tells you it's trivial to get a new chain then you know he's
full of s**t and he's trying to rip you off.

Grant

RainLover wrote:
I've been looking at chain lately (3/8") and I've noticed something that so far, every hardware guy
says he's never seen before. On the box of chain, without exception, they all say "DO NOT use for
lifting or any situation where a life could be endangered if the chain fails.

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but what in the hell could a person use a 3/8" chain for that wasn't
potentially dangerous. If the chain has a rating of 6,500 pounds and breaks, someone is going to be
around!!!

Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making or is there actually different chain that
is approved for lifting and all the stuff at H.D., Lowes, Ace is made for something else... what I
don't know.

Any suggestions? :-)

James, Seattle

www.jameskelseystudios.com

It's probably relatively cheap low carbon steel "proof coil" or grade 30
chain. You'd want grade 80 or even stronger grade 100 high strength *alloy*
steel overhead lifting chain for overhead lifting, but it would be overkill
compared to even Grades 43 ("high test") and 70 ("transport") chain.

3/8" proof coil is only rated for about 2600 lbs, you'd need 5/8" proof coil
(almost 4 1/4 lbs/foot) or 3/8" grade 70 (just over 1.5 lbs/ft -- 37% the
weight of proof coil) for 6500 lbs!

For dragging logs, locking up ladders, motorcycles, etc. and what not proof
coil serves well enough. Grade 70 "Transport" chain is often used for
lashing things (machinry, cars, etc. down on flatbed trucks, etc.


"RainLover" wrote in message
...
I've been looking at chain lately (3/8") and I've noticed something that
so far, every hardware guy
says he's never seen before. On the box of chain, without exception, they
all say "DO NOT use for
lifting or any situation where a life could be endangered if the chain
fails.

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but what in the hell could a person use a 3/8"
chain for that wasn't
potentially dangerous. If the chain has a rating of 6,500 pounds and
breaks, someone is going to be
around!!!

Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making or is there
actually different chain that
is approved for lifting and all the stuff at H.D., Lowes, Ace is made for
something else... what I
don't know.

Any suggestions? :-)

James, Seattle

www.jameskelseystudios.com

Trust me, there is a difference in grades of chain. I know first hand.
I had a piece of plate that had to me moved alongside a wall, and it
had to be lifted overhead. I specified a proof test chain approved for
overhead lifting. Placed the order for the chain, days later the
chain was delivered. That night it was put to use. It broke. Upon
further investigaiton it was determined that the bean counters refused
to pay for the chain I requested, and ordered regular old hardware
store chain of equal size. A link gave up the ghost at a weld joint,
and in the end result was the loss of three fingers. Odds are the
chainwould have held and worked fine, if the weld on the link did not
fail, and thats what proof test chain for over head lifting is all
about, its fully tested and certified, not general run of the mill
materials. Its the companies ass riding on the line if their product
fails to meet specs listed. Its a lot higher in $$ than hardware store
variety. Needless to say the company I worked for had to spend a
considerable amount more money that what that chain would have cost
them to begin with.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:55:24 -0800, RainLover
wrote:

===I've been looking at chain lately (3/8") and I've noticed something that so far, every hardware guy
===says he's never seen before. On the box of chain, without exception, they all say "DO NOT use for
===lifting or any situation where a life could be endangered if the chain fails.
===
===Tell me if I'm wrong here, but what in the hell could a person use a 3/8" chain for that wasn't
===potentially dangerous. If the chain has a rating of 6,500 pounds and breaks, someone is going to be
===around!!!
===
===Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making or is there actually different chain that
===is approved for lifting and all the stuff at H.D., Lowes, Ace is made for something else... what I
===don't know.
===
===Any suggestions? :-)
===
===James, Seattle
===
===www.jameskelseystudios.com
===

Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

I believe, but am not 100% sure, that a chain rated for overhead lifting has
a greater safety margin and is designed to fail somewhat gracefully. For
example, a regular chain rated for 1000 pounds may actually be designed for
2000 pounds. A overhead lifting chain rated for 1000 pounds may be designed
for 4000 pounds. And when overloaded, the hooks on the overhead chain are
designed to bend first (instead of a link breaking first), giving ample
warning instead of just letting the load drop. But again, I'm not 100% sure
about this.

Personally I would just pay extra for real lifting chains and not risk
myself or my load.

"RainLover" wrote in message
...
I've been looking at chain lately (3/8") and I've noticed something that
so far, every hardware guy
says he's never seen before. On the box of chain, without exception, they
all say "DO NOT use for
lifting or any situation where a life could be endangered if the chain
fails.

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but what in the hell could a person use a 3/8"
chain for that wasn't
potentially dangerous. If the chain has a rating of 6,500 pounds and
breaks, someone is going to be
around!!!

Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making or is there
actually different chain that
is approved for lifting and all the stuff at H.D., Lowes, Ace is made for
something else... what I
don't know.

Any suggestions? :-)

James, Seattle

www.jameskelseystudios.com

You need chainhoist chain... Yes it is different and cost much more...

Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making or is there actually different chain that
is approved for lifting and all the stuff at H.D., Lowes, Ace is made for something else... what I
don't know.

Any suggestions? :-)

James, Seattle

www.jameskelseystudios.com

Proof chain is made of heat treated alloy steel its got higher tensile
strength and it costs more than the stuff you were looking at.
The cheap stuff is great for holding a tailgate or tying rover and has
about the same steel as a coat hanger or a nail.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:55:24 -0800, RainLover
brought forth from the murky
depths:

I've been looking at chain lately (3/8") and I've noticed something that so far, every hardware guy
says he's never seen before. On the box of chain, without exception, they all say "DO NOT use for
lifting or any situation where a life could be endangered if the chain fails.

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but what in the hell could a person use a 3/8" chain for that wasn't
potentially dangerous. If the chain has a rating of 6,500 pounds and breaks, someone is going to be
around!!!

Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making or is there actually different chain that
is approved for lifting and all the stuff at H.D., Lowes, Ace is made for something else... what I
don't know.

Any suggestions? :-)

http://www.beaver.com.au/product_lifting.htm
Check out the specs on these and further research them.
Chain for lifting and other commercial use has to meet
very strict specifications. You wouldn't want your rigger
using any old import chain on your mill, now would you?


--------------------------------------------------------
Murphy was an Optimist
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

There is chain that is approved for lifting, it is very strong grade of
steel and heat treated. And it is the most expensive grade as well. Check
the Grainger catalog.

Tony

"RainLover" wrote in message
...
I've been looking at chain lately (3/8") and I've noticed something that
so far, every hardware guy
says he's never seen before. On the box of chain, without exception, they
all say "DO NOT use for
lifting or any situation where a life could be endangered if the chain
fails.

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but what in the hell could a person use a 3/8"
chain for that wasn't
potentially dangerous. If the chain has a rating of 6,500 pounds and
breaks, someone is going to be
around!!!

Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making or is there
actually different chain that
is approved for lifting and all the stuff at H.D., Lowes, Ace is made for
something else... what I
don't know.

Any suggestions? :-)

James, Seattle

www.jameskelseystudios.com

"AL" wrote in message news:%p59c.13948$JO3.22918@attbi_s04...
I believe, but am not 100% sure, that a chain rated for overhead lifting
has
a greater safety margin and is designed to fail somewhat gracefully. For
example, a regular chain rated for 1000 pounds may actually be designed
for
2000 pounds. A overhead lifting chain rated for 1000 pounds may be
designed
for 4000 pounds.

At work we constantly lift dies that weight up to about 70 metric tonnes
(about 155,000lbs) using cranes with chains. We also have to flip these
dies. Sometimes they get stuck on the chains as they are crossing their
*apex*. At some point, the chain will get out of the die's way and the die
drops. It's quite a sound when a die bounces on those chains. Scary too. I
don't think we've ever hard a chain fail (the links are made of about 3/4"
diameter material, IIRC).

I'd say there's a bit of a safety factor built in ;-)

Regards,

Robin

"Roy" wrote in message
...
Trust me, there is a difference in grades of chain. I know first hand.
I had a piece of plate that had to me moved alongside a wall, and it
had to be lifted overhead. I specified a proof test chain approved for
overhead lifting. Placed the order for the chain, days later the
chain was delivered. That night it was put to use. It broke. Upon
further investigaiton it was determined that the bean counters refused
to pay for the chain I requested, and ordered regular old hardware
store chain of equal size. A link gave up the ghost at a weld joint,
and in the end result was the loss of three fingers. Odds are the
chainwould have held and worked fine, if the weld on the link did not
fail, and thats what proof test chain for over head lifting is all
about, its fully tested and certified, not general run of the mill
materials. Its the companies ass riding on the line if their product
fails to meet specs listed. Its a lot higher in $$ than hardware store
variety. Needless to say the company I worked for had to spend a
considerable amount more money that what that chain would have cost
them to begin with.



Now this is as clear a case as can be made for the need for a good lawyer. I
would have sued that company for all I could get if it was my 3 fingers.

Lane

The US bureau NOAA provides mariner's navigational charts in digital form to
various publishers, who reprint and sell them to mariners at outrageous
prices. Every one is stamped "Not to be used for navigational purposes".

"RainLover" wrote in message
...
I've been looking at chain lately (3/8") and I've noticed something that
so far, every hardware guy
says he's never seen before. On the box of chain, without exception, they
all say "DO NOT use for
lifting or any situation where a life could be endangered if the chain
fails.

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but what in the hell could a person use a 3/8"
chain for that wasn't
potentially dangerous. If the chain has a rating of 6,500 pounds and
breaks, someone is going to be
around!!!

Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making or is there
actually different chain that
is approved for lifting and all the stuff at H.D., Lowes, Ace is made for
something else... what I
don't know.

Any suggestions? :-)

James, Seattle

www.jameskelseystudios.com

Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making or is there actually different chain that
is approved for lifting and all the stuff at H.D., Lowes, Ace is made for something else... what I
don't know.


I think you can buy proof tested chain that has actually been proved
to make its rating. Run of the mill chain is not tested and therefore
could fail at low tensile loads. Let's face it, every one of those
links is welded and it is entirely conceivable that one in a million
welds will be defective. Leigh@MarMachine

"AL" wrote in message news:%p59c.13948$JO3.22918@attbi_s04...
I believe, but am not 100% sure, that a chain rated for overhead lifting
has
a greater safety margin and is designed to fail somewhat gracefully. For
example, a regular chain rated for 1000 pounds may actually be designed
for
2000 pounds. A overhead lifting chain rated for 1000 pounds may be
designed
for 4000 pounds. And when overloaded, the hooks on the overhead chain are
designed to bend first (instead of a link breaking first), giving ample
warning instead of just letting the load drop. But again, I'm not 100%
sure
about this.

I keep a metallurgical souvenier, a short length of high-grade chain with a
couple of links that are stretched to about 2X their nominal length. The
one that eventually failed had been both stretched and bent around a sharp
90 degree corner (truck frame).

The chain was left over from the first attempt at pulling on a loaded 10
wheel truck sunk in mud up to its axles. Just a wild guess, it broke at
around 20,000 lbs force on a 3/8" chain.

"Bob Powell" wrote in message
s.com...
I keep a metallurgical souvenier, a short length of high-grade chain
with a couple of links that are stretched to about 2X their nominal
length.
snip
Just a wild guess, it broke at around 20,000 lbs force on a 3/8" chain.

Hmm, 4130-ish? But even then the max. elongation is what, 30%? I don't
know of anything that's up around 100%, gold maybe?

If the load is born equally in both sides of the link (unlikely given the
stress concentration between links), that means it failed at 90KSI... If
the load is concentrated on one side of the link, that doubles to 180KSI.
Most likely it's the first case plus stress concentration bringing the guess
to between 100 and 300KSI (the highest I've heard of for steel alloys). In
any case some impressive steel!

Tim

--
"I have misplaced my pants." - Homer Simpson | Electronics,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --+ Metalcasting
and Games: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:55:24 -0800, RainLover
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I've been looking at chain lately (3/8") and I've noticed something that so far, every hardware guy
says he's never seen before. On the box of chain, without exception, they all say "DO NOT use for
lifting or any situation where a life could be endangered if the chain fails.

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but what in the hell could a person use a 3/8" chain for that wasn't
potentially dangerous. If the chain has a rating of 6,500 pounds and breaks, someone is going to be
around!!!

Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making or is there actually different chain that
is approved for lifting and all the stuff at H.D., Lowes, Ace is made for something else... what I
don't know.

Any suggestions? :-)

Very complex. And I cannot supply the full result. I am not quite sure
what differentiates lifting chain from towing chain. I frequently
ignore the two....but that's my risk.

But to answer your question(s) Yes. Simple towing. Yes, but their risk
is variable.

No and Yes.

Now to the rambling, personal experiance BS. All usual disclaimers of
a complete lack of competence to explain this situation apply.....

3/8" chain in the hardware store is not very strong. It's probably not
much above mild steel, anf they probabnly include the galv in the
diameter. Its _breaking strain_ may be a couple of ton. It's not
tested. It should only be used for some amount less than that, and in
situations where the failure does not matter.........eg not for
lifting. You cannot use the tensile strength of 3/8 steel to asume its
strength. Welds, angles shapes.....messy....complex. It is basically
not _guaranteed_ to do _anything_ besides be there.

Interestingly, if the _brain_ is applied (ratings never assume this)
soft steel is "safer" than HT steel. It sags then tears. HT/spring
steel resists then lets go.

OK. back to hardware chain. I use it for none of my work above hanging
pot-plants. For anything else I get rated chain and couplings. They
serve me, although I abuse them, and the warnings that I get when I
buy them, to a point that renders anything but self-employment
illegal. In short I behave like most farmers. G

SORRY. I HAVE TO DO THIS. I DIGRESS.

Here I will interpose a story. I was buying a piece of gear. The
seller needed to remove another piece of gear, tractor-towed, to allow
testing of the bit I wanted. The PTO shaft of the bit I wanted got in
the way of moving the other bit. "Hold this out of the way" he says. I
was not happy, but tried to be a "nice guy". So he starts to drag the
other piece out, behind 100HP of cabined tractor, and I am caught
between the gear I want to test (2 tonne +) and the approaching piece
of steel flotsam trapped behind the 100HP tractor. I yell. I scream.
Of course he cannot hear me. It passes me by with A 2" gap (which was
full of smelly brown matter!) and I escape without injury.

WHEN WORKING WITH MORE THAN YOURSELF, THE DANGER INSCREASES AS THE
CUBE OF THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE INVOLVED.

WHEN ON YOUR OWN AND WORKING WITH MACHINERY, WORKPLACE HEALTH AND
SAFETY IS NOT SOME (S)MOTHERING GOVT DEPT! It's your brain! perfection
is the norm.

OK Digression over......SORRY.

One of the things about chain over cable is that chain simply breaks.
It does not stretch much first, or if it does, it is _largely_ by
non-recoverable deformation of the steel in each link, which will not
restore and supply recoil energy. I have seen this in action, by
breaking chains. They simply snap and sit there.

Cable has windings that 'wind up" and allow the cable to store
enormous amounts of energy before breakage. They are high tensile
steel in direct tension...another source of stored energy.
- Good point? It frays first, then snaps.
- Bad point? When it goes, after you have ignored the warnings, it
can let go many horsepower/seconds of stored energy in your direction,
along with whatever is attached..
- Cables would bury an arrow in you if they could. I have read of
someone's head being taken off by a vehicle's towball.

To give you an idea, get a bit of rated lifting cable and unravel it.
Now wind the spring steel back up. Over several metres you are storing
a lot of energy.

However, when I buy chain, I am always warned that it is drag chain,
not lift chain. AFAIAA, the difference is not in behaviour, bu rating.
EG Drag chain will break at 3x its rated strain. Lift chain needs at
least 5x. There are complexities there. As other have said, hooks come
into play, so that they bend first. etc etc.

I simply never set in the way fo a stressed element of what I am
doing. If I do I am dumb.
************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

In article , Old Nick says...

SORRY. I HAVE TO DO THIS. I DIGRESS.

Here I will interpose a story. I was buying a piece of gear. The
seller needed to remove another piece of gear, tractor-towed, to allow
testing of the bit I wanted. The PTO shaft of the bit I wanted got in
the way of moving the other bit. "Hold this out of the way" he says. I
was not happy, but tried to be a "nice guy". So he starts to drag the
other piece out, behind 100HP of cabined tractor, and I am caught
between the gear I want to test (2 tonne +) and the approaching piece
of steel flotsam trapped behind the 100HP tractor. I yell. I scream.
Of course he cannot hear me. It passes me by with A 2" gap (which was
full of smelly brown matter!) and I escape without injury.

WHEN WORKING WITH MORE THAN YOURSELF, THE DANGER INSCREASES AS THE
CUBE OF THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE INVOLVED.

Digression gladly enjoyed. But what about the *rest* of the
story, about what happened after the lift was done, and the two
of you had a 'discussion?'

My digression:

I had been given an old shop-smith which was pretty much complete.
It sat in my garage and took up a good deal of room for quite some
time. Quite some room. Turns out a co-worker found out I had it,
and in a fit of brilliance I donated it to him.

He was going to use it for spare parts, he had several others.

He showed up at my house one afternoon when I was out, but
ms. Mulligan was at home. He thought he could load the thing
into his van on his own, but she went out to assist. She's
actually quite strong. So the two of them manage to get one
end up into the van, but it gets hung inside there. She said
it was pretty obvious that the owner would have to re-shuffle
the existing contents of the van to make the thing fit, but
in her words "he didn't agree and was in a hurry."

So he goes into the van and tries to steer the thing, she's outside
holding up the other end. He tells her to push, so she starts
in with a bit of force. No good.

"Push harder" he says.

After the fact she said that she was postive he would be fetched
up between the machine and stuff inside the van if she dug in hard.
So she began to bring up the force gradually, to protect him.

"Is that all you can push!!?" Now he's getting impatient.

thought bubble over ms Mulligan's head OK you asked for it...

So she throttled all the way up and pinned him good inside
his van. Oh the humanity!!

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 27 Mar 2004 08:11:52 -0800, jim rozen
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Actually, the guy was very contrite, and immediately realised the
error of our ways (I say "our" because I was the silly bugger who
stood there!). The only discussion was "Cheap lesson well learned" for
both of us.

Digression gladly enjoyed. But what about the *rest* of the
story, about what happened after the lift was done, and the two
of you had a 'discussion?'

My digression:


Ah! Yours is deliberate! G

I had been given an old shop-smith which was pretty much complete.
It sat in my garage and took up a good deal of room for quite some
time. Quite some room. Turns out a co-worker found out I had it,
and in a fit of brilliance I donated it to him.
snip
After the fact she said that she was postive he would be fetched
up between the machine and stuff inside the van if she dug in hard.
So she began to bring up the force gradually, to protect him.

"Is that all you can push!!?" Now he's getting impatient.
thought bubble over ms Mulligan's head OK you asked for it...

So she throttled all the way up and pinned him good inside
his van. Oh the humanity!!

************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

The riggers in the shipyard could position anything, anywhere you wanted it.
They would do a lashing with flat nylon strapping and then use chain falls.
Real work of art watching them position a large turbine driven fuel oil pump
into position past a row of lower level machinery when your eye said there is
no way it's gonna fit. We were doing a shafting job on a US Army Corp of
Engineer dredge and I was having a real problem getting the prop shaft piece to
lower straight into the box for the reversible pitch prop. After several
failures I wised up and asked the riggers for their input. They suggested
blocking the shaft then raising the much lighter box onto the shaft. Worked
perfectly. In our shipyard (PNSY) we would routinely work out of our trades in
order to get the job done. Wasn't at all unusual to have 38 shop mechanics
pulling on falls to lower a turbine casing for a blue fit, and have the 72 shop
riggers dropping bolts into holes. We all learned a lot about each others jobs
and worked very well together. But once the Senate gave us a productivity
award, we knew we were doomed and the yard closed in '95.

And speaking of anchor chain, later when I was a test inspector, there is
nothing like the pucker factor when drop testing the anchor windlass brakes on
an aircraft carrier. Now that was a chain!

John H.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:46:06 -0500, "Bill Price" wrote:

The US bureau NOAA provides mariner's navigational charts in digital form to
various publishers, who reprint and sell them to mariners at outrageous
prices. Every one is stamped "Not to be used for navigational purposes".

That cracks me up! I just built my studio (quanset hut style) last year.... the $300 engineered
plans I had to give my permit department said "don't use these measurements, use the ones in the
manual".

In the manual? It said, DO NOT use these measurments! Use the ones in the Engineered Plans.

F*ckers.

hehe,
James, Seattle

Thanks for all the Chain advice.

I'm sure you've all saved this poor sap from saving a dollar NOW so I could loose a limb later, and
for THAT, I"m grateful.

As always, you're advice is sound (when taken as a whole, that is)

James, Seattle

Lifting chain is generally tensile tested whereas general use chain is
just fabricated and shipped. Using roller chain as an example (like
forklifts use) because that's what I work with....A # 80 chain has an
AVERAGE ultimate strength of 14,500 pounds. The average link wont die
until you are at that level. However, any individual link may die at 1
pound. Hence, the need for a good safety factor when using chain for
power transmission service (among other reasons).

But lifting is CRITICAL. Therefore any chain rated for lift is tested
in (usually) a hydraulic pull bench for an amount of tension greater
than the "average" ultimate strength rating of everyday chain.
Sometimes they also cycle it a few times to make sure things aren't
coming loose. This insures that, when tested to 10,000 pounds, a chain
is assured of being good to lift some lesser amount (usually a safety
factor of about 4).

Things like poor plating and poor heat treating can really screw up a
chain. On transmission applications, it's not usual for someone to die
or receive a severe injury from such a screw up. On lifting
applications, it is. It's gotta be tested on lift applications or you
may be the guy to hit the one link that is below average.

I've focused on roller chain but it's essentially the same for
link-chains used for lift.

Koz



RainLover wrote:

I've been looking at chain lately (3/8") and I've noticed something that so far, every hardware guy
says he's never seen before. On the box of chain, without exception, they all say "DO NOT use for
lifting or any situation where a life could be endangered if the chain fails.

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but what in the hell could a person use a 3/8" chain for that wasn't
potentially dangerous. If the chain has a rating of 6,500 pounds and breaks, someone is going to be
around!!!

Is this a case of lawyers being in charge of chain-making or is there actually different chain that
is approved for lifting and all the stuff at H.D., Lowes, Ace is made for something else... what I
don't know.

Any suggestions? :-)

James, Seattle

www.jameskelseystudios.com