Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

On 2010-12-19, Laurie Forbes wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Probably good enough for residential needs.

I can sell you a military MEP-006A diesel generator with 800 hours on
the meter.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/MEP-006A/

Price is $4k CASH and includes a free trailer.

I will be asking for more elsewhere.

i

On Dec 18, 8:57*pm, Laurie Forbes wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

Before you commit I suggest you do some number crunching as to what
it will cost to run a nat gas generator for, say a week's power outage
and compare this to what it would cost with a gas or diesel engine. I
did and found that that running my house off my Miller gas welding
machine was a lot cheaper in the long run, plus I had a welding
machine to boot

Gerry wrote:

On Dec 18, 8:57 pm, Laurie Forbes wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

Before you commit I suggest you do some number crunching as to what
it will cost to run a nat gas generator for, say a week's power outage
and compare this to what it would cost with a gas or diesel engine. I
did and found that that running my house off my Miller gas welding
machine was a lot cheaper in the long run, plus I had a welding
machine to boot


Does your welder autostart & does it have a transfer switch? Does it
put out enough for a whole house?


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

Laurie Forbes wrote:

Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).


There is one sitting about 100 feet from me. Other that a wiring
error casue by a missed ECO at the factory, (that was fixed for free) it
has been in place for about five years with no problems.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

On 12/18/2010 8:18 PM, Ignoramus7337 wrote:
On 2010-12-19, Laurie wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14& 17KW sizes).

Probably good enough for residential needs.

I can sell you a military MEP-006A diesel generator with 800 hours on
the meter.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/MEP-006A/

Price is $4k CASH and includes a free trailer.

I will be asking for more elsewhere.

i

Thanks but we need something that is single phase, runs on natural gas,
has a transfer switch and is auto-start (and with local service).

Laurie Forbes

On 12/18/2010 9:04 PM, Gerry wrote:
On Dec 18, 8:57 pm, Laurie wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14& 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

Before you commit I suggest you do some number crunching as to what
it will cost to run a nat gas generator for, say a week's power outage
and compare this to what it would cost with a gas or diesel engine. I
did and found that that running my house off my Miller gas welding
machine was a lot cheaper in the long run, plus I had a welding
machine to boot

It surprises me that a diesel or gas gen would cost less to run than
natural gas as nat gas is a lot cheaper (on a BTU basis). In any case,
we want auto start/stop and don't want to mess with liquid fuels if
possible. The specific circumstances also require idiot proofness.

Laurie Forbes

On 12/18/2010 10:25 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Laurie Forbes wrote:

Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14& 17KW sizes).


There is one sitting about 100 feet from me. Other that a wiring
error casue by a missed ECO at the factory, (that was fixed for free) it
has been in place for about five years with no problems.


Thanks for the recommendation. I'm also looking at a similar Kohler
unit but it is more expensive and service is not as readily available.
It looks like the Generac will fit the bill as it will (hopefully) not
receive a lot of use (power fail backup only).

Laurie Forbes

Laurie Forbes wrote:

Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

You don't say where you live. If you're in earthquake country, then
natural gas probably isn't the best route, because if the main ruptures,
you won't have any NG. I can't speak at propane vs. liquid fuel, other
than propane doesn't stink like gasoline or diesel. ;-)

I also don't know which of the three gives the most KWH per dollar of
fuel. )-;

Good Luck!
Rich

Sitting here on the genny as I type. Had 2 trees blow down this
morning, took out mine and several others lines. I just have a 5500W
10hp unit, no frills. Big house, it runs all the critical systems,
except the water heater, dryer and oven. Clean enough for TV and
computer.
JR


On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 19:57:46 -0700, Laurie Forbes
wrote:

Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

On Dec 18, 11:23*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Gerry wrote:

On Dec 18, 8:57 pm, Laurie Forbes wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

Before you *commit I suggest you do some number crunching as to what
it will cost to run a nat gas generator for, say a week's power outage
and compare this to what it would cost with a gas or diesel engine. I
did and found that that running my house off my Miller gas welding
machine was a lot cheaper in the long run, plus I had a welding
machine to boot

* *Does your welder autostart & does it have a transfer switch? *Does it
put out enough for a whole house?

--
For the last time: *I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

No autostart and no auto transfer switch. Never felt like it was
needed because just about anyone can hit a start button and run
extension cords. Had neighbors who were real proud of their nat gas
generators during Katrina 9 day outage get real squeamish when they
got their $2k nat gas bills at the end of the month. I was just as
comfortable and used about $200 worth of gasoline. Have not had to use
mine since then but hear theirs crank and run every week for an hour
or so. Their initial investment was about 2.5 times mine. I talked the
the gas company when I was considering a nat gas genset and they told
me that I would also have to run a new gas service because the normal
residential would not be able to feed a 13K genset. Not saying it is
the same everywhere, just repeating what I was told. I'm in south
Louisiana Good luck!

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 21:18:45 -0600, Ignoramus7337
wrote:

On 2010-12-19, Laurie Forbes wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Probably good enough for residential needs.

I can sell you a military MEP-006A diesel generator with 800 hours on
the meter.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/MEP-006A/

Price is $4k CASH and includes a free trailer.

I will be asking for more elsewhere.

i
That....is one hell of a deal.

Built in 1975, overhauled in 1988, with only 800 hours on the clock

Bit big for most residental uses..but very very good for commercial and
similar.

And it could be used for residential easily enough.

And one doesnt have to pay road taxes on the fuel so its cheaper than
standard diesel

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 22:57:02 -0700, Laurie Forbes
wrote:

On 12/18/2010 8:18 PM, Ignoramus7337 wrote:
On 2010-12-19, Laurie wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14& 17KW sizes).

Probably good enough for residential needs.

I can sell you a military MEP-006A diesel generator with 800 hours on
the meter.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/MEP-006A/

Price is $4k CASH and includes a free trailer.

I will be asking for more elsewhere.

i

Thanks but we need something that is single phase, runs on natural gas,
has a transfer switch and is auto-start (and with local service).

Laurie Forbes

That is single phase..least part of it is. It could be run on NG . The
transfer switch goes on your building..not the genset and could be setup
for autostart


Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

Laurie Forbes wrote:

On 12/18/2010 9:04 PM, Gerry wrote:
On Dec 18, 8:57 pm, Laurie wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14& 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

Before you commit I suggest you do some number crunching as to what
it will cost to run a nat gas generator for, say a week's power outage
and compare this to what it would cost with a gas or diesel engine. I
did and found that that running my house off my Miller gas welding
machine was a lot cheaper in the long run, plus I had a welding
machine to boot

It surprises me that a diesel or gas gen would cost less to run than
natural gas as nat gas is a lot cheaper (on a BTU basis). In any case,
we want auto start/stop and don't want to mess with liquid fuels if
possible. The specific circumstances also require idiot proofness.

Laurie Forbes


Laurie,

I'm a bit skepical that NG costs more than diesel or gasoline. I believe NG is actually
less expensive.

http://www.buildinggreen.com/calc/fuel_cost.cfm

BTU's are Btu's, just a standard measure of energy. Using the above site the prices they
consider normal (I didn't not verify validity), I get the following:

Electricity 37.17 per 1M btu
NG at 16.35
#2 Fuel oil at 23.58
Propane at 28.65
Firewood at 12.99 (steam powered genset anyone, just put that one in there for jest)

NG is normally still available during power outages. Now an earth quake might be a
different issue since the distribution system may be compromised.

Sadly generac doesn't make a dual fuel as in NG/Fuel oil in their residential line. They
do for their industrial offerings. That would be sweet and offer you options.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

JR North wrote:

Sitting here on the genny as I type. Had 2 trees blow down this
morning, took out mine and several others lines. I just have a 5500W
10hp unit, no frills. Big house, it runs all the critical systems,
except the water heater, dryer and oven. Clean enough for TV and
computer.
JR

What, no chance to get out the camping gear to 'rough' it inside the home? You are
missing one of those, "I'm a man, I can can survive moments".

It is fun for about 3 hours

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On 2010-12-19, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 21:18:45 -0600, Ignoramus7337
wrote:

On 2010-12-19, Laurie Forbes wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Probably good enough for residential needs.

I can sell you a military MEP-006A diesel generator with 800 hours on
the meter.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/MEP-006A/

Price is $4k CASH and includes a free trailer.

I will be asking for more elsewhere.

i
That....is one hell of a deal.

Thanks

Built in 1975, overhauled in 1988, with only 800 hours on the clock

Bit big for most residental uses..but very very good for commercial and
similar.

And it could be used for residential easily enough.

And one doesnt have to pay road taxes on the fuel so its cheaper than
standard diesel

This, seems to be more for remote construction kind of guys.

i

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 23:01:11 -0700, Laurie Forbes
wrote:

On 12/18/2010 9:04 PM, Gerry wrote:
On Dec 18, 8:57 pm, Laurie wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14& 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

Before you commit I suggest you do some number crunching as to what
it will cost to run a nat gas generator for, say a week's power outage
and compare this to what it would cost with a gas or diesel engine. I
did and found that that running my house off my Miller gas welding
machine was a lot cheaper in the long run, plus I had a welding
machine to boot

It surprises me that a diesel or gas gen would cost less to run than
natural gas as nat gas is a lot cheaper (on a BTU basis). In any case,
we want auto start/stop and don't want to mess with liquid fuels if
possible. The specific circumstances also require idiot proofness.

Does anyone know what the certainty is of the natural gas supply to
continue uninterrupted during a week+long region-wide power outage?
There's lots of capacity in the pipeline, but...
1) how long will that last
2) what kind of backup power systems do they have for it
and
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey

On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 01:37:37 -0800 (PST), Gerry
wrote:

On Dec 18, 11:23*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Gerry wrote:

On Dec 18, 8:57 pm, Laurie Forbes wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

Before you *commit I suggest you do some number crunching as to what
it will cost to run a nat gas generator for, say a week's power outage
and compare this to what it would cost with a gas or diesel engine. I
did and found that that running my house off my Miller gas welding
machine was a lot cheaper in the long run, plus I had a welding
machine to boot

* *Does your welder autostart & does it have a transfer switch? *Does it
put out enough for a whole house?

--
For the last time: *I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

No autostart and no auto transfer switch. Never felt like it was
needed because just about anyone can hit a start button and run
extension cords. Had neighbors who were real proud of their nat gas
generators during Katrina 9 day outage get real squeamish when they
got their $2k nat gas bills at the end of the month. I was just as
comfortable and used about $200 worth of gasoline. Have not had to use
mine since then but hear theirs crank and run every week for an hour
or so. Their initial investment was about 2.5 times mine. I talked the
the gas company when I was considering a nat gas genset and they told
me that I would also have to run a new gas service because the normal
residential would not be able to feed a 13K genset. Not saying it is
the same everywhere, just repeating what I was told. I'm in south
Louisiana Good luck!

Whoa! Crazy. That's good info to know.

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey

On 2010-12-19, Larry Jaques wrote:

Does anyone know what the certainty is of the natural gas supply to
continue uninterrupted during a week+long region-wide power outage?
There's lots of capacity in the pipeline, but...
1) how long will that last
2) what kind of backup power systems do they have for it
and

This is an excellent questionn. I believe that NG pumping stations do
have their own backup generators, but I am not generally sure how
generally reliable is gas supply (outside of San Bruno, that is).

I have a diesel generator and a little bit of my own fuel.

3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

On Dec 19, 8:18*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 23:01:11 -0700, Laurie Forbes



wrote:
On 12/18/2010 9:04 PM, Gerry wrote:
On Dec 18, 8:57 pm, Laurie *wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14& *17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

Before you *commit I suggest you do some number crunching as to what
it will cost to run a nat gas generator for, say a week's power outage
and compare this to what it would cost with a gas or diesel engine. I
did and found that that running my house off my Miller gas welding
machine was a lot cheaper in the long run, plus I had a welding
machine to boot

It surprises me that a diesel or gas gen would cost less to run than
natural gas as nat gas is a lot cheaper (on a BTU basis). *In any case,
we want auto start/stop and don't want to mess with liquid fuels if
possible. *The specific circumstances also require idiot proofness.

Does anyone know what the certainty is of the natural gas supply to
continue uninterrupted during a week+long region-wide power outage?
There's lots of capacity in the pipeline, but...
1) how long will that last
2) what kind of backup power systems do they have for it
and
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." * * * * * * * --Edward Abbey

I have gas heat , gas HWH and stove and BBQ grill. Never have I lost
natural gas in any of the hurricanes I have been through. Nat gas
seems to be a pretty stable supply. Much better than gas or diesel.
When the last hurricane was coming through, I planned ahead and filled
a 55 gallon drum with gas. Obama proof? Nothing on the face of the
earth is FEMA and Obama proof

I have a diesel generator and a little bit of my own fuel.

3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Thanks to the ever benevolent federal agencies, we have been blessed
with ethanol. For those using gasoline, what are the effects of storing
gasahol?

So far, diesel seems to be a promising, long term solution.

The question that should be asked is it EPA proof?

On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 06:54:29 -0500, Wes
wrote:

Laurie Forbes wrote:

On 12/18/2010 9:04 PM, Gerry wrote:
On Dec 18, 8:57 pm, Laurie wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14& 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

Before you commit I suggest you do some number crunching as to what
it will cost to run a nat gas generator for, say a week's power outage
and compare this to what it would cost with a gas or diesel engine. I
did and found that that running my house off my Miller gas welding
machine was a lot cheaper in the long run, plus I had a welding
machine to boot

It surprises me that a diesel or gas gen would cost less to run than
natural gas as nat gas is a lot cheaper (on a BTU basis). In any case,
we want auto start/stop and don't want to mess with liquid fuels if
possible. The specific circumstances also require idiot proofness.

Laurie Forbes


Laurie,

I'm a bit skepical that NG costs more than diesel or gasoline. I believe NG is actually
less expensive.

http://www.buildinggreen.com/calc/fuel_cost.cfm

BTU's are Btu's, just a standard measure of energy. Using the above site the prices they
consider normal (I didn't not verify validity), I get the following:

Electricity 37.17 per 1M btu
NG at 16.35
#2 Fuel oil at 23.58
Propane at 28.65
Firewood at 12.99 (steam powered genset anyone, just put that one in there for jest)

NG is normally still available during power outages. Now an earth quake might be a
different issue since the distribution system may be compromised.

Sadly generac doesn't make a dual fuel as in NG/Fuel oil in their residential line. They
do for their industrial offerings. That would be sweet and offer you options.

Wes

http://www.propane-generators.com/

http://ezinearticles.com/?Generators...cur&id=4048178

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/ge...generator.html

Etc etc etc

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

On 2010-12-19, Louis Ohland wrote:

I have a diesel generator and a little bit of my own fuel.

3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Thanks to the ever benevolent federal agencies, we have been blessed
with ethanol. For those using gasoline, what are the effects of storing
gasahol?

Perhaps it ages, like wine.

So far, diesel seems to be a promising, long term solution.

The question that should be asked is it EPA proof?

There is plenty of compliant diesel generators out there.

i

--Stay the heck AWAY from Generac! Had one in my RV; you can NOT get
parts for 'em. The company stinks for tech support too. **** 'em.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Steel, Stainless, Titanium:
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : Guaranteed Uncertified Welding!
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Louis Ohland wrote:

I have a diesel generator and a little bit of my own fuel.

3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Thanks to the ever benevolent federal agencies, we have been blessed
with ethanol. For those using gasoline, what are the effects of storing
gasahol?

So far, diesel seems to be a promising, long term solution.

The question that should be asked is it EPA proof?

The newer gas doesn't store well at all untreated, but if you always
treat it with a suitable stabilizer it will store a year adequately. If
you ensure that you put your gas stock into your vehicle and replace the
stock with fresh every six months you should be fine.

Rich Grise wrote:

Laurie Forbes wrote:

Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

You don't say where you live. If you're in earthquake country, then
natural gas probably isn't the best route, because if the main ruptures,
you won't have any NG. I can't speak at propane vs. liquid fuel, other
than propane doesn't stink like gasoline or diesel. ;-)

I also don't know which of the three gives the most KWH per dollar of
fuel. )-;

Good Luck!
Rich

Propane *is* a liquid fuel, hence the LP designation. It takes a rather
large LP tank to give you any reasonable on-site fuel supply, a good
deal larger than a comparable supply of diesel or gasoline.

Probably the ideal setup is a larger NG fueled genset, auto start and
transfer, and large enough for normal operation of the house, and a
small (smallest you can find, 5KW or so) diesel portable generator and a
moderate diesel supply in the shed.

Wes wrote:

JR North wrote:

Sitting here on the genny as I type. Had 2 trees blow down this
morning, took out mine and several others lines. I just have a 5500W
10hp unit, no frills. Big house, it runs all the critical systems,
except the water heater, dryer and oven. Clean enough for TV and
computer.
JR

What, no chance to get out the camping gear to 'rough' it inside the home? You are
missing one of those, "I'm a man, I can can survive moments".

It is fun for about 3 hours

It is far more fun to continue your day normally, warm and comfortable,
while the unprepared are freezing their butts off in the dark.

Gerry wrote:

On Dec 18, 11:23 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Gerry wrote:

On Dec 18, 8:57 pm, Laurie Forbes wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

Before you commit I suggest you do some number crunching as to what
it will cost to run a nat gas generator for, say a week's power outage
and compare this to what it would cost with a gas or diesel engine. I
did and found that that running my house off my Miller gas welding
machine was a lot cheaper in the long run, plus I had a welding
machine to boot

Does your welder autostart & does it have a transfer switch? Does it
put out enough for a whole house?

--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

No autostart and no auto transfer switch. Never felt like it was
needed because just about anyone can hit a start button and run
extension cords. Had neighbors who were real proud of their nat gas
generators during Katrina 9 day outage get real squeamish when they
got their $2k nat gas bills at the end of the month. I was just as
comfortable and used about $200 worth of gasoline. Have not had to use
mine since then but hear theirs crank and run every week for an hour
or so. Their initial investment was about 2.5 times mine. I talked the
the gas company when I was considering a nat gas genset and they told
me that I would also have to run a new gas service because the normal
residential would not be able to feed a 13K genset. Not saying it is
the same everywhere, just repeating what I was told. I'm in south
Louisiana Good luck!


Then it won't do what she wants. Some people don't want to be
outside in the dark, in the rain or snow to start a generator, or to run
cords. Some need autostart & a transfer switch becasue they can't be
without power when they aren't home.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 01:37:37 -0800 (PST), Gerry
wrote:

On Dec 18, 11:23 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Gerry wrote:

On Dec 18, 8:57 pm, Laurie Forbes wrote:
Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

Before you commit I suggest you do some number crunching as to what
it will cost to run a nat gas generator for, say a week's power outage
and compare this to what it would cost with a gas or diesel engine. I
did and found that that running my house off my Miller gas welding
machine was a lot cheaper in the long run, plus I had a welding
machine to boot

Does your welder autostart & does it have a transfer switch? Does it
put out enough for a whole house?

--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

No autostart and no auto transfer switch. Never felt like it was
needed because just about anyone can hit a start button and run
extension cords. Had neighbors who were real proud of their nat gas
generators during Katrina 9 day outage get real squeamish when they
got their $2k nat gas bills at the end of the month. I was just as
comfortable and used about $200 worth of gasoline. Have not had to use
mine since then but hear theirs crank and run every week for an hour
or so. Their initial investment was about 2.5 times mine. I talked the
the gas company when I was considering a nat gas genset and they told
me that I would also have to run a new gas service because the normal
residential would not be able to feed a 13K genset. Not saying it is
the same everywhere, just repeating what I was told. I'm in south
Louisiana Good luck!

Whoa! Crazy. That's good info to know.


I wonder if he has a small plastic pipe fed inside an old rusted out
iron pipe? In some places they don't dig up bad drops.

--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

steamer wrote:

--Stay the heck AWAY from Generac! Had one in my RV; you can NOT get
parts for 'em. The company stinks for tech support too. **** 'em.


You had an 18 KW Generac in your RV?

--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

On Dec 19, 8:01*am, Ignoramus12759 ignoramus12...@NOSPAM.
12759.invalid wrote:
...
This, seems to be more for remote construction kind of guys.
i

We used them at mountaintop radio relay sites, mostly near the border
with you guys.

jsw

On 2010-12-19, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Dec 19, 8:01?am, Ignoramus12759 ignoramus12...@NOSPAM.
12759.invalid wrote:
...
This, seems to be more for remote construction kind of guys.
i

We used them at mountaintop radio relay sites, mostly near the border
with you guys.

That's really interesting. Can you tell me more about them? I have not
even picked it up yet. How long do they last? Are they really loud?
How do you start them in winter, with glow plugs?

i

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 23:01:11 -0700, Laurie Forbes

It surprises me that a diesel or gas gen would cost less to run than
natural gas as nat gas is a lot cheaper (on a BTU basis). In any case,
we want auto start/stop and don't want to mess with liquid fuels if
possible. The specific circumstances also require idiot proofness.

Does anyone know what the certainty is of the natural gas supply to
continue uninterrupted during a week+long region-wide power outage?
There's lots of capacity in the pipeline, but...
1) how long will that last
2) what kind of backup power systems do they have for it
and
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

I'm kind of surprised that there's so much piped-in gas here in earthquake
land (LA county area, CA). I'd think that in a serious quake, the gas lines
would be the first to go, or maybe along with the water mains.

Cheers!
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 23:01:11 -0700, Laurie Forbes

It surprises me that a diesel or gas gen would cost less to run than
natural gas as nat gas is a lot cheaper (on a BTU basis). In any case,
we want auto start/stop and don't want to mess with liquid fuels if
possible. The specific circumstances also require idiot proofness.

Does anyone know what the certainty is of the natural gas supply to
continue uninterrupted during a week+long region-wide power outage?
There's lots of capacity in the pipeline, but...
1) how long will that last
2) what kind of backup power systems do they have for it
and
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

I'm kind of surprised that there's so much piped-in gas here in earthquake
land (LA county area, CA). I'd think that in a serious quake, the gas lines
would be the first to go, or maybe along with the water mains.

Yep, it's certainly at risk, but consider the fact that without that
piped in NG, your already overloaded electrical grid would completely
collapse trying to handle that extra load.

Thanks everyone for their input. I'll try to respond to the questions
and points.

First off, I calculate the cost of operating a 17KW unit at 50% load on
NG at about $10/d (the cost of NG here, in Calgary, Canada, is about
$3.50 per GJ (gigajoule)). IIRC a GJ is roughly the same as 1,000,000 BTU.

I'm in Canada so no worries about Obama. We also don't get earthquakes
here so no worries about interruption of the NG service (we have places
around here that have not had in interruption in several decades).

This unit is not for a home but for a wildlife rescue/rehab facility
which is not attended 24 hrs/day. So, we want auto start/stop. It has
to be idiot proof as some (most?)of the staff & volunteers are what you
might call mechanically challenged.

In short, it has to be reliable, work automatically and, not break the
bank as we are a non-profit with limited resources. I have had some
comments from a couple of suppliers here that Generac warranty and
service are kind of spotty here but have had no adverse comments on any
build quality/reliability issues.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Laurie (not female BTW) Forbes

Laurie Forbes wrote:

Thanks everyone for their input. I'll try to respond to the questions
and points.

First off, I calculate the cost of operating a 17KW unit at 50% load on
NG at about $10/d (the cost of NG here, in Calgary, Canada, is about
$3.50 per GJ (gigajoule)). IIRC a GJ is roughly the same as 1,000,000 BTU.

I'm in Canada so no worries about Obama. We also don't get earthquakes
here so no worries about interruption of the NG service (we have places
around here that have not had in interruption in several decades).

This unit is not for a home but for a wildlife rescue/rehab facility
which is not attended 24 hrs/day. So, we want auto start/stop. It has
to be idiot proof as some (most?)of the staff & volunteers are what you
might call mechanically challenged.

In short, it has to be reliable, work automatically and, not break the
bank as we are a non-profit with limited resources. I have had some
comments from a couple of suppliers here that Generac warranty and
service are kind of spotty here but have had no adverse comments on any
build quality/reliability issues.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Laurie (not female BTW) Forbes

From what I've seen, the low end Generac / Guardian units are adequate
"economy" models that will get the job done. Their Guardian commercial
line is better and more rugged and of course more expensive. Kohler
pretty much starts at the light commercial end of things and goes up
from there. Kohler is known for very good service and long lasting
equipment, but of course it's not an "economy" brand.

I have a Gererac 14KW unit. It works well but they absoulutely need
to be properly installed , set up & broken in by someone who knows
what they're doing. Also make sure you have good dealer support, the
factory absooulutely *will not* deal directly with owners & Generac
has a history of dealers coming & going. I bought mine used & the
local service rep woudn't touch it because he hadn't sold it. I had
to figure everything out myself, took a while to get the bugs worked
out.

Other than that it seems to work flawlessly.

Do a search on the web for the owners & service manauals, they'll give
you a good insight into what you're looking at.

http://www.tantel.ca/Images/Home/Generator/

H.

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 19:57:46 -0700, Laurie Forbes
wrote:

Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14 & 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

Laurie Forbes

On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 08:27:31 -0600, Ignoramus12759
wrote:

On 2010-12-19, Larry Jaques wrote:

Does anyone know what the certainty is of the natural gas supply to
continue uninterrupted during a week+long region-wide power outage?
There's lots of capacity in the pipeline, but...
1) how long will that last
2) what kind of backup power systems do they have for it
and

This is an excellent questionn. I believe that NG pumping stations do
have their own backup generators, but I am not generally sure how
generally reliable is gas supply (outside of San Bruno, that is).

I have a diesel generator and a little bit of my own fuel.

What are the fuel storage rules for gensets, anyway?


3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey

On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 01:37:37 -0800 (PST), Gerry
wrote:

*Snip*


No autostart and no auto transfer switch. Never felt like it was
needed because just about anyone can hit a start button and run
extension cords. Had neighbors who were real proud of their nat gas
generators during Katrina 9 day outage get real squeamish when they
got their $2k nat gas bills at the end of the month. I was just as
comfortable and used about $200 worth of gasoline. Have not had to use
mine since then but hear theirs crank and run every week for an hour
or so. Their initial investment was about 2.5 times mine. I talked the
the gas company when I was considering a nat gas genset and they told
me that I would also have to run a new gas service because the normal
residential would not be able to feed a 13K genset. Not saying it is
the same everywhere, just repeating what I was told. I'm in south
Louisiana Good luck!

Rated fuel consumption on a Generac 14kw is 240 cu.' per hour @ full
load, 150 @ half load. I'm running mine on propane which is 2.8/2.2
gal./hr. Around here the price of natural gas & propane are about the
same per BTU-

http://www.heritagegas.com/residenti...ial-rates.html

which is probably a lot higher than your part of the world.

At "half" consumption nine days running time would set me back ~$650
bucks. Of course shutting it down when not needed wouud reduce that
by a goodly amount.

I suggest your neighbours get thier meter checked, seems to be running
a bit "high".

H.

On 12/19/2010 5:23 PM, Howard Eisenhauer wrote:
I have a Gererac 14KW unit. It works well but they absoulutely need
to be properly installed , set up& broken in by someone who knows
what they're doing. Also make sure you have good dealer support, the
factory absooulutely *will not* deal directly with owners& Generac
has a history of dealers coming& going. I bought mine used& the
local service rep woudn't touch it because he hadn't sold it. I had
to figure everything out myself, took a while to get the bugs worked
out.

It looks like the best deal around here is to be found at Home Despot
and I will be sure to nail down who does their servicing/warranty work
and talk to them b/f purchase.

Thanks,
Laurie Forbes