On 2010-12-20, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 08:27:31 -0600, Ignoramus12759
wrote:

On 2010-12-19, Larry Jaques wrote:

Does anyone know what the certainty is of the natural gas supply to
continue uninterrupted during a week+long region-wide power outage?
There's lots of capacity in the pipeline, but...
1) how long will that last
2) what kind of backup power systems do they have for it
and

This is an excellent questionn. I believe that NG pumping stations do
have their own backup generators, but I am not generally sure how
generally reliable is gas supply (outside of San Bruno, that is).

I have a diesel generator and a little bit of my own fuel.

What are the fuel storage rules for gensets, anyway?

Depends on location.


3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

i

Ignoramus12759 wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 08:27:31 -0600, Ignoramus12759
wrote:

On 2010-12-19, Larry Jaques wrote:

Does anyone know what the certainty is of the natural gas supply to
continue uninterrupted during a week+long region-wide power outage?
There's lots of capacity in the pipeline, but...
1) how long will that last
2) what kind of backup power systems do they have for it
and

This is an excellent questionn. I believe that NG pumping stations do
have their own backup generators, but I am not generally sure how
generally reliable is gas supply (outside of San Bruno, that is).

I have a diesel generator and a little bit of my own fuel.

What are the fuel storage rules for gensets, anyway?

Depends on location.


3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:35:30 -0600, Ignoramus12759
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 08:27:31 -0600, Ignoramus12759
wrote:

On 2010-12-19, Larry Jaques wrote:

Does anyone know what the certainty is of the natural gas supply to
continue uninterrupted during a week+long region-wide power outage?
There's lots of capacity in the pipeline, but...
1) how long will that last
2) what kind of backup power systems do they have for it
and

This is an excellent questionn. I believe that NG pumping stations do
have their own backup generators, but I am not generally sure how
generally reliable is gas supply (outside of San Bruno, that is).

I have a diesel generator and a little bit of my own fuel.

What are the fuel storage rules for gensets, anyway?

Depends on location.


3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

i


ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!

Same thing for the Bolsheviks in 1917 too eh Comrade?

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 21:00:19 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Ignoramus12759 wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 08:27:31 -0600, Ignoramus12759
wrote:

On 2010-12-19, Larry Jaques wrote:

Does anyone know what the certainty is of the natural gas supply to
continue uninterrupted during a week+long region-wide power outage?
There's lots of capacity in the pipeline, but...
1) how long will that last
2) what kind of backup power systems do they have for it
and

This is an excellent questionn. I believe that NG pumping stations do
have their own backup generators, but I am not generally sure how
generally reliable is gas supply (outside of San Bruno, that is).

I have a diesel generator and a little bit of my own fuel.

What are the fuel storage rules for gensets, anyway?

Depends on location.


3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.


Look..theres two of them!!


Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

On 12/18/2010 10:07 PM, Rich Grise wrote:

Laurie Forbes wrote:

Would appreciate any comments, good or bad, on the Generac Guardian
series of stationary propane/nat gas generators (we are looking at the
14& 17KW sizes).

Thanks for any assistance.........

You don't say where you live. If you're in earthquake country, then
natural gas probably isn't the best route, because if the main ruptures,
you won't have any NG. I can't speak at propane vs. liquid fuel, other
than propane doesn't stink like gasoline or diesel. ;-)

I also don't know which of the three gives the most KWH per dollar of
fuel. )-;

Good Luck!
Rich



We just finally got our gen set hooked up. Ancient Onan 12.5KW 1800 RPM
Single Phase - 4 cylinder engine with NG/Propane carburetor.

Ran it for a while on 5 gallon propane tanks. Not enough run time for
any realistic emergency.

We first looked at installing a 250 gallon propane tank, believing the
sales guy who said the tank was $65 a year to rent. That sounded very
reasonable - found out later (but before signing the contract) that we
also had to pay for a full tank a year whether we used it or not. $500
or so... Yikes!

We already have a natural gas service and use it for heating, water
heating, cooking, etc. so hooking up to the gas line made sense. The
only reason we looked at propane in the first place was the cheap tank
rental and having power in the event of a natural gas interruption.

Realistically, the only time the NG line would fail would be an
earthquake. So, going with the propane option we'd have electricity but
likely an earthquake would reduce our 1920 vintage house to sticks and
kindling. Kinda defeats the purpose.

We tapped in a 3/4" line at the gas meter and ran it about 40 feet to
the gen set. It uses about 133 cubic feet per hour with no load, so
probably about 175 at half load, which is about what we need. (We really
should have downsized the genny to about 5 KW to cover all our emergency
needs, but this unit came up at a good price - an oldie but a goody.)

If we run it continuously it'll cost about $50 a day. More likely if we
need it we'll just fire it up a couple of hours to keep the essentials
going - or get the neighbors to chip in when they bring their extension
cords over and plug in. The fireplace insert will provide enough
emergency heat with no electricity at all and we can light the cookstove
with a match.

We did our own 'brute force' power transfer switch instead of buying the
$275 commercial panel. We installed a 50A dryer outlet from our main
panel and a small sub-panel with breakers to feed all the emergency
circuits. The generator output stubs out to another dryer outlet near
the sub-panel. When needed we will manually unplug from the main panel
and plug into the generator receptacle. Cost about $30 for the whole
shebang.

Neither gasoline nor Diesel were even considered - the ethanol gas goes
bad too fast and diesel would turn to jelly before we got to use it.

Awaiting the first power failure of the season to try it out.

Carla

"But there's still a problem. Yes, Biden is occasionally a truth-teller.
But, just as often, he's explaining how FDR spoke to Americans on TV,
years before they had television sets or — give it time — how squirrels
would taste more like ice cream if goats were only taller. And again,
whenever he punctures the politics as usual with an inconvenient truth,
the administration forces Biden to recant, not the other way around." -
Jonah Goldberg

On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 22:14:49 -0800, Carla Fong
wrote:

We did our own 'brute force' power transfer switch instead of buying the
$275 commercial panel. We installed a 50A dryer outlet from our main
panel and a small sub-panel with breakers to feed all the emergency
circuits. The generator output stubs out to another dryer outlet near
the sub-panel. When needed we will manually unplug from the main panel
and plug into the generator receptacle. Cost about $30 for the whole
shebang.

Just be damned sure that there is no possibility of power from the
generator getting back to the main line coming in...No matter how badly
someone screws up.

Its a life taker if you do.

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

i

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 06:58:53 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why his approval rating has steadily declined since taking
office, is it? Your Puffington Host says it all in a chart:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_726319.html



--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 22:14:49 -0800, Carla Fong
wrote:

We did our own 'brute force' power transfer switch instead of buying the
$275 commercial panel. We installed a 50A dryer outlet from our main
panel and a small sub-panel with breakers to feed all the emergency
circuits. The generator output stubs out to another dryer outlet near
the sub-panel. When needed we will manually unplug from the main panel
and plug into the generator receptacle. Cost about $30 for the whole
shebang.

Just be damned sure that there is no possibility of power from the
generator getting back to the main line coming in...No matter how badly
someone screws up.

There is no possibility of that with the pluggable sub-panel setup.
Personally I prefer the approved interlock kits available for many
brands of panels, I use the Square D QOGCK kit on my QO panel.


Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 06:58:53 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why his approval rating has steadily declined since taking
office, is it? Your Puffington Host says it all in a chart:

Nope, the reason his approval rating has declined since taking office is
the same reason the approval rating would have declined if his
competitor in the race (or anyone else) had taken office - unrealistic
expectations. The population simply has unrealistic expectations of how
quickly the battered economy can be repaired and wants instant
gratification, something that is just not possible.

On 2010-12-20, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 06:58:53 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why his approval rating has steadily declined since taking
office, is it? Your Puffington Host says it all in a chart:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_726319.html

I stated my opinion, which at times may agree or disagree with the
average of other people's opinions.

I feel proud to have Obama as our president.

i

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 06:58:53 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why his approval rating has steadily declined since taking
office, is it? Your Puffington Host says it all in a chart:

Nope, the reason his approval rating has declined since taking office is
the same reason the approval rating would have declined if his
competitor in the race (or anyone else) had taken office - unrealistic
expectations. The population simply has unrealistic expectations of how
quickly the battered economy can be repaired and wants instant
gratification, something that is just not possible.

Exactly.

i

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 22:14:49 -0800, Carla Fong
wrote:

We did our own 'brute force' power transfer switch instead of buying the
$275 commercial panel. We installed a 50A dryer outlet from our main
panel and a small sub-panel with breakers to feed all the emergency
circuits. The generator output stubs out to another dryer outlet near
the sub-panel. When needed we will manually unplug from the main panel
and plug into the generator receptacle. Cost about $30 for the whole
shebang.

Just be damned sure that there is no possibility of power from the
generator getting back to the main line coming in...No matter how badly
someone screws up.

There is no possibility of that with the pluggable sub-panel setup.
Personally I prefer the approved interlock kits available for many
brands of panels, I use the Square D QOGCK kit on my QO panel.


Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

Think about one thing.

If your generator backfeeds the power line through the transformer,
this means that you are also powering a whole neighborhood.

Proper generator connections (interlocks, pluggable panels, transfer
switches) are very important for many reasons, but let's not lose
track of reality, which is that a backup generator is usually not
capable of running a whole neighborhood.

Unless it is a MEP-006A, of course.

i

Ignoramus30024 wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 22:14:49 -0800, Carla Fong
wrote:

We did our own 'brute force' power transfer switch instead of buying the
$275 commercial panel. We installed a 50A dryer outlet from our main
panel and a small sub-panel with breakers to feed all the emergency
circuits. The generator output stubs out to another dryer outlet near
the sub-panel. When needed we will manually unplug from the main panel
and plug into the generator receptacle. Cost about $30 for the whole
shebang.

Just be damned sure that there is no possibility of power from the
generator getting back to the main line coming in...No matter how badly
someone screws up.

There is no possibility of that with the pluggable sub-panel setup.
Personally I prefer the approved interlock kits available for many
brands of panels, I use the Square D QOGCK kit on my QO panel.


Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

Think about one thing.

If your generator backfeeds the power line through the transformer,
this means that you are also powering a whole neighborhood.

Proper generator connections (interlocks, pluggable panels, transfer
switches) are very important for many reasons, but let's not lose
track of reality, which is that a backup generator is usually not
capable of running a whole neighborhood.

Unless it is a MEP-006A, of course.

i

Yes, a back feed to much more than your own downed service drop will
generally result in a generator stall and/or breaker trip. Very few
cases where you can light up any significant length of primary line back
feeding through a transformer. If the linemen follow their mandatory
procedures, they test the line and then ground it before working on it,
so if your generator is lighting it up when they test, they'll come find
you, and if you try to fire it up after they've grounded the line your
generator will trip out.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:46:16 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 06:58:53 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why his approval rating has steadily declined since taking
office, is it? Your Puffington Host says it all in a chart:

Nope, the reason his approval rating has declined since taking office is
the same reason the approval rating would have declined if his
competitor in the race (or anyone else) had taken office - unrealistic
expectations. The population simply has unrealistic expectations of how
quickly the battered economy can be repaired and wants instant
gratification, something that is just not possible.

So then you are admitting he lied when running for office and claimed he
and his Congress would fix everything before he had been in 1 yr...and
he would have pulled all the troops out of the middle east within 6
months of being elected?


Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 09:04:01 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 06:58:53 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why his approval rating has steadily declined since taking
office, is it? Your Puffington Host says it all in a chart:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_726319.html

I stated my opinion, which at times may agree or disagree with the
average of other people's opinions.

I feel proud to have Obama as our president.

i

So why did you move from Russia? They had 90 yrs of similar leaders.

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:03:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

No...the ultimate cause of the fatality was some yutz not disconnecting
from the main while running a generator.

And in each and every case..the genny owner paid a very expensive price
for killing someone.

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:46:16 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 06:58:53 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why his approval rating has steadily declined since taking
office, is it? Your Puffington Host says it all in a chart:

Nope, the reason his approval rating has declined since taking office is
the same reason the approval rating would have declined if his
competitor in the race (or anyone else) had taken office - unrealistic
expectations. The population simply has unrealistic expectations of how
quickly the battered economy can be repaired and wants instant
gratification, something that is just not possible.

So then you are admitting he lied when running for office and claimed he
and his Congress would fix everything before he had been in 1 yr...and
he would have pulled all the troops out of the middle east within 6
months of being elected?

Have you ever seen any politician of any party that didn't make campaign
lies?

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:03:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

No...the ultimate cause of the fatality was some yutz not disconnecting
from the main while running a generator.

Cites? I've read numerous OSHA accident reports and not one supported
that conclusion.


And in each and every case..the genny owner paid a very expensive price
for killing someone.

False convictions. The US's pathetic legal system is rife with them. I
do A/V work with a lot of attys. doing pre-trial research with test jury
pools for technical civil cases and the jurors rarely ever come up with
the correct verdict. The whole legal system is designed to select the
least qualified, most emotionally manipulatable jurors - it's just a big
scam.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:56:04 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:46:16 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 06:58:53 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why his approval rating has steadily declined since taking
office, is it? Your Puffington Host says it all in a chart:

Nope, the reason his approval rating has declined since taking office is
the same reason the approval rating would have declined if his
competitor in the race (or anyone else) had taken office - unrealistic
expectations. The population simply has unrealistic expectations of how
quickly the battered economy can be repaired and wants instant
gratification, something that is just not possible.

So then you are admitting he lied when running for office and claimed he
and his Congress would fix everything before he had been in 1 yr...and
he would have pulled all the troops out of the middle east within 6
months of being elected?

Have you ever seen any politician of any party that didn't make campaign
lies?

So then you are admitting that the Marxist Obama is a liar.

Thats a very good first step.

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:56:04 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:46:16 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 06:58:53 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why his approval rating has steadily declined since taking
office, is it? Your Puffington Host says it all in a chart:

Nope, the reason his approval rating has declined since taking office is
the same reason the approval rating would have declined if his
competitor in the race (or anyone else) had taken office - unrealistic
expectations. The population simply has unrealistic expectations of how
quickly the battered economy can be repaired and wants instant
gratification, something that is just not possible.

So then you are admitting he lied when running for office and claimed he
and his Congress would fix everything before he had been in 1 yr...and
he would have pulled all the troops out of the middle east within 6
months of being elected?

Have you ever seen any politician of any party that didn't make campaign
lies?

So then you are admitting that the Marxist Obama is a liar.

Sorry boopie, Obummer is no Marxist, lay off the right wing babble shows
and look at the facts. All politicians are liars, it is their nature.
Your beloved right wing politicians are liars as well.

On 2010-12-20, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 09:04:01 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 06:58:53 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why his approval rating has steadily declined since taking
office, is it? Your Puffington Host says it all in a chart:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_726319.html

I stated my opinion, which at times may agree or disagree with the
average of other people's opinions.

I feel proud to have Obama as our president.

i

So why did you move from Russia? They had 90 yrs of similar leaders.

Their leaders were much more similar to President Bush.

i

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:00:03 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:03:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

No...the ultimate cause of the fatality was some yutz not disconnecting
from the main while running a generator.

Cites? I've read numerous OSHA accident reports and not one supported
that conclusion.

http://www.electricenergyonline.com/..._news&id=38786

Oddly enough..that was right at the top of the google search list...


And in each and every case..the genny owner paid a very expensive price
for killing someone.

False convictions. The US's pathetic legal system is rife with them. I
do A/V work with a lot of attys. doing pre-trial research with test jury
pools for technical civil cases and the jurors rarely ever come up with
the correct verdict. The whole legal system is designed to select the
least qualified, most emotionally manipulatable jurors - it's just a big
scam.

No wonder Liberals havent all been killed yet. They are so easy to
manipulate.

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:32:32 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:56:04 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:46:16 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 06:58:53 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why his approval rating has steadily declined since taking
office, is it? Your Puffington Host says it all in a chart:

Nope, the reason his approval rating has declined since taking office is
the same reason the approval rating would have declined if his
competitor in the race (or anyone else) had taken office - unrealistic
expectations. The population simply has unrealistic expectations of how
quickly the battered economy can be repaired and wants instant
gratification, something that is just not possible.

So then you are admitting he lied when running for office and claimed he
and his Congress would fix everything before he had been in 1 yr...and
he would have pulled all the troops out of the middle east within 6
months of being elected?

Have you ever seen any politician of any party that didn't make campaign
lies?

So then you are admitting that the Marxist Obama is a liar.

Sorry boopie, Obummer is no Marxist, lay off the right wing babble shows
and look at the facts. All politicians are liars, it is their nature.
Your beloved right wing politicians are liars as well.

Sorry Comrade..at the least..Obummer is a Socialist.
Lay off that Leftwing Useful Idiot Juice and look at the facts..and dont
bother with the MSM.

So you are admitting then that Obamassiah lied like a rug...and you and
the Leftwingers still went ahead and voted him into orfice.

And the Left was surprised this last November when they got their asses
handed to them??

Wait till 2012....when things come totally un****ed for them.

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:33:21 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 09:04:01 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 06:58:53 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:
3) is it Obama/FEMA-proof?

Notably absent is your comment here. g


I think that Obama is a great president, doing his best in difficult
circumstances.

He can put a coherent sentence together, so that alone puts him light
years ahead of his predecessor. I certainly don't agree with him on
everything, but I think he's doing a decent job given the pile of crap
he has to deal with.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why his approval rating has steadily declined since taking
office, is it? Your Puffington Host says it all in a chart:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_726319.html

I stated my opinion, which at times may agree or disagree with the
average of other people's opinions.

I feel proud to have Obama as our president.

i

So why did you move from Russia? They had 90 yrs of similar leaders.

Their leaders were much more similar to President Bush.

i

Really? How so? While Bush was a Rino..he was hardly a
Marxist/Socialist/Progressive/Liberal.

Im very interested in hearing what you your evidence is.

Feel free to post it so all can examine it.

Thanks Tovarish!!!

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:00:03 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:03:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

No...the ultimate cause of the fatality was some yutz not disconnecting
from the main while running a generator.

Cites? I've read numerous OSHA accident reports and not one supported
that conclusion.

http://www.electricenergyonline.com/..._news&id=38786

Oddly enough..that was right at the top of the google search list...

Sorry, but that in no way supports you claim and is also not an OSHA
report. There is no "supposed to be dead" in the lineman's handbook,
there is only "tested and grounded before working bare handed", a
mandatory procedure that will prevent injury in *all* generator back
feed cases as well as the many cases of poor coordination between line
crews.



And in each and every case..the genny owner paid a very expensive price
for killing someone.

False convictions. The US's pathetic legal system is rife with them. I
do A/V work with a lot of attys. doing pre-trial research with test jury
pools for technical civil cases and the jurors rarely ever come up with
the correct verdict. The whole legal system is designed to select the
least qualified, most emotionally manipulatable jurors - it's just a big
scam.

No wonder Liberals havent all been killed yet. They are so easy to
manipulate.

It's generally liberal attys. manipulating the poorly educated, and that
demographic leans toward the conservative side, though the liberal side
is catching up in the "poorly educated" race. It's all part of the Great
Global Tidy Bowl Swirl (tm).

Larry Jaques writes:


Does anyone know what the certainty is of the natural gas supply to
continue uninterrupted during a week+long region-wide power outage?
There's lots of capacity in the pipeline, but...


It's not the pileline that stores it; it's large tanks. In
most of the country, natural gas is highly reliable, with
MTBF's in decades. (Obviously, Shake & Bake Califunny is an
exception.) Given the massive effort the utility must expend to
restart; that's not surprising.

I recall a local gas utility outage in the 60's. It was summer
and only part of one suburb, but took them 60H+ and mega$$$ of
overtime to visit every house, shut off the main, re-pressure
the feeds (and vent, I bet) then one by one re-visit each house
and relight pilots.

You need to look at the upside/downside of alternatives:

a) Gasoline: Chances are your insurance company, fire marshal
and the local EPA will be all over you if you want to store more
than a few gallons of gasoline. Plus it spoils. You can rotate
it out by burning it in cars.

b) Diesel: Surely a great idea at a facility where they have big
demands & have regular maintenance. But the fuel has a limited
lifetime, & grows critters in the tank. (Got a Diesel car?) The
initial cost is higher and the engines need frequent oil
changes.

c) Propane: Burns clean, since you consume vapor. Stores forever,
and does not upset the fire marshal. But it does need a large tank
for a reasonable capacity.




--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

David Lesher wrote:

Larry Jaques writes:

Does anyone know what the certainty is of the natural gas supply to
continue uninterrupted during a week+long region-wide power outage?
There's lots of capacity in the pipeline, but...

It's not the pileline that stores it; it's large tanks. In
most of the country, natural gas is highly reliable, with
MTBF's in decades. (Obviously, Shake & Bake Califunny is an
exception.) Given the massive effort the utility must expend to
restart; that's not surprising.

I recall a local gas utility outage in the 60's. It was summer
and only part of one suburb, but took them 60H+ and mega$$$ of
overtime to visit every house, shut off the main, re-pressure
the feeds (and vent, I bet) then one by one re-visit each house
and relight pilots.

You need to look at the upside/downside of alternatives:

a) Gasoline: Chances are your insurance company, fire marshal
and the local EPA will be all over you if you want to store more
than a few gallons of gasoline. Plus it spoils. You can rotate
it out by burning it in cars.

Gas can be stabilized for a year without much issue, and can easily be
rotated through vehicle use at more frequent intervals. Storing more
than a few gallons isn't a huge issue as long as you can store it in a
suitable dedicated space with secondary spill containment and the
appropriate warning signs.


b) Diesel: Surely a great idea at a facility where they have big
demands & have regular maintenance. But the fuel has a limited
lifetime, & grows critters in the tank. (Got a Diesel car?) The
initial cost is higher and the engines need frequent oil
changes.

Diesel full has a very long lifetime if properly stored. Diesel biocide
is readily available to kill any critters that may try to grow, and
those critters also can't grow if you ensure that there is no water in
the fuel. There are inexpensive products for removing water from diesel
storage tanks also (they're kind of like big tampons you hang in the
tank). Diesel cars are sadly uncommon in the US, but diesel trucks,
tractors and construction equipment are not so in many cases it's pretty
easy to cycle through fuel. The US northeast also commonly uses fuel oil
for heating, so fuel can be used up there as well, and the heating oil
tank is also an acceptable and legal source of generator fuel.


c) Propane: Burns clean, since you consume vapor. Stores forever,
and does not upset the fire marshal. But it does need a large tank
for a reasonable capacity.

Sorry, LP does indeed upset the fire marshals in some areas.

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:00:03 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:03:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

No...the ultimate cause of the fatality was some yutz not disconnecting
from the main while running a generator.

Cites? I've read numerous OSHA accident reports and not one supported
that conclusion.

http://www.electricenergyonline.com/..._news&id=38786

Oddly enough..that was right at the top of the google search list...

Sorry, but that in no way supports you claim and is also not an OSHA
report. There is no "supposed to be dead" in the lineman's handbook,
there is only "tested and grounded before working bare handed", a
mandatory procedure that will prevent injury in *all* generator back
feed cases as well as the many cases of poor coordination between line
crews.

I am not sure what it means "reportedly".

He was working on a high voltage power line, did not ground himself,
and was "reportedly" killed by a generator? Which supplied the entire
HV line and its customers?

Could it be the power company that accidentally energized the line
that was not grounded, trying to shift blame to an unknown
"homeowner"?

i

Ignoramus30024 wrote:

On 2010-12-20, Pete C. wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:00:03 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:03:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

No...the ultimate cause of the fatality was some yutz not disconnecting
from the main while running a generator.

Cites? I've read numerous OSHA accident reports and not one supported
that conclusion.

http://www.electricenergyonline.com/..._news&id=38786

Oddly enough..that was right at the top of the google search list...

Sorry, but that in no way supports you claim and is also not an OSHA
report. There is no "supposed to be dead" in the lineman's handbook,
there is only "tested and grounded before working bare handed", a
mandatory procedure that will prevent injury in *all* generator back
feed cases as well as the many cases of poor coordination between line
crews.

I am not sure what it means "reportedly".

He was working on a high voltage power line, did not ground himself,
and was "reportedly" killed by a generator? Which supplied the entire
HV line and its customers?

Could it be the power company that accidentally energized the line
that was not grounded, trying to shift blame to an unknown
"homeowner"?

i

I think you misread what I wrote. The news piece (not OSHA incident
report) that was referenced indicated that the lineman was electrocuted
working on a line that "was supposed to be dead". I pointed out that
there is no "supposed to be dead" in the power lineman's handbook, there
is a clear "test and ground before working bared handed" procedure in
said power lineman's handbook.

This "test and ground before working bared handed" procedure requires
testing with a voltmeter, and then solidly grounding the line to be
worked on, all performed with full hot line gear, before the lineman is
allowed to work on the line bare handed.

Following this procedure which is mandatory under all utility and OSHA
rules will prevent injury 100% of the time. A line that is solidly
grounded will not go live regardless of what occurs down the line. If
the lineman was injured, he was injured due to his failure to follow
this mandatory procedure, the source of the electrons that injured him,
be they from a private generator or the utility's generator is
irrelevant.

On 2010-12-20, David Lesher wrote:
b) Diesel: Surely a great idea at a facility where they have big
demands & have regular maintenance. But the fuel has a limited
lifetime, & grows critters in the tank. (Got a Diesel car?) The
initial cost is higher and the engines need frequent oil
changes.

Most of the time, "critters in diesel" occur because water was
introduced into the tank. That can be prevented. There are also
biocides that kill those critters, and diesel fuel can be so stored
indefinitely.

i

Ignoramus30024 wrote:

I feel proud to have Obama as our president.

Of course. That goes hand in hand with the nym, "Ignoramus."

But seriously, Iggy - didn't you emigrate from a communist country? Do
you really think communism is better than Freedom?

Thanks,
Rich

Ignoramus30024 wrote:

Their leaders were much more similar to President Bush.

Oh. He was a Nazi (actually, Cheney's the nazi; Bush was just a sock
puppet). They're just "National Socialists," the operative word here
being socialist. Obama's a "People's Socialist."

The only difference is that the people's socialists take your money
away to pay the bills of the lazy, negligent and stupid poor people,
and the national socialists take your money away to pay the bills of
the lazy, negligent and stupid rich people.

The operative word here being "take."

Thanks,
Rich

Pete C. wrote:

expectations. The population simply has unrealistic expectations of how
quickly the battered economy can be repaired and wants instant
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
gratification, something that is just not possible.

Problem is, he's the one doing the battering.

Get the government out of the way and the economy will fix itself.

Thanks,
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

expectations. The population simply has unrealistic expectations of how
quickly the battered economy can be repaired and wants instant
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
gratification, something that is just not possible.

Problem is, he's the one doing the battering.

All sides have had plenty of opportunity to make proposals on how to fix
the economy, yet all we have heard is bashing of the current
administration's efforts. If the other sides had any legitimate
alternatives we would have heard them. The fact is there are limited
options and none of them are "silver bullets". If the other side was in
office now, they would be doing pretty much the same things economically
since there isn't much of an alternative.


Get the government out of the way and the economy will fix itself.

I'm not so sure about that. A good portion of the source of the current
problems was the government being "out of the way". And I'm no fan of
government.

Rich Grise wrote:

Ignoramus30024 wrote:

Their leaders were much more similar to President Bush.

Oh. He was a Nazi (actually, Cheney's the nazi; Bush was just a sock
puppet). They're just "National Socialists," the operative word here
being socialist. Obama's a "People's Socialist."

The only difference is that the people's socialists take your money
away to pay the bills of the lazy, negligent and stupid poor people,
and the national socialists take your money away to pay the bills of
the lazy, negligent and stupid rich people.

The operative word here being "take."

Thanks,
Rich

Actually, none of them are Nazis, that honor goes to the Catholic's
current pope, along with the honor of documented pedophile protector.

More of the Great Global Tidy Bowl Swirl (tm)...

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:18:58 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:00:03 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:03:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

No...the ultimate cause of the fatality was some yutz not disconnecting
from the main while running a generator.

Cites? I've read numerous OSHA accident reports and not one supported
that conclusion.

http://www.electricenergyonline.com/..._news&id=38786

Oddly enough..that was right at the top of the google search list...

Sorry, but that in no way supports you claim and is also not an OSHA
report. There is no "supposed to be dead" in the lineman's handbook,
there is only "tested and grounded before working bare handed", a
mandatory procedure that will prevent injury in *all* generator back
feed cases as well as the many cases of poor coordination between line
crews.

Is the man dead or not as the result of some schlub not taking his genny
off the mains?

You will note that there are at least 30 articles from various
newspapers recounting his death. He may not have grounded his line.

And if that person didnt put on their seatbelt...they were still killed
by the drunk driver.



And in each and every case..the genny owner paid a very expensive price
for killing someone.

False convictions. The US's pathetic legal system is rife with them. I
do A/V work with a lot of attys. doing pre-trial research with test jury
pools for technical civil cases and the jurors rarely ever come up with
the correct verdict. The whole legal system is designed to select the
least qualified, most emotionally manipulatable jurors - it's just a big
scam.

No wonder Liberals havent all been killed yet. They are so easy to
manipulate.

It's generally liberal attys. manipulating the poorly educated, and that
demographic leans toward the conservative side, though the liberal side
is catching up in the "poorly educated" race. It's all part of the Great
Global Tidy Bowl Swirl (tm).

So you are saying that its been Liberal attornies who have been
manipulating the Red States?

Really? Care to back that up with some cites?

Like...Illinois?

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:47:50 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Get the government out of the way and the economy will fix itself.

I'm not so sure about that. A good portion of the source of the current
problems was the government being "out of the way". And I'm no fan of
government.


FDR did the same bull****....

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla...sion-5409.aspx


Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:18:58 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:00:03 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:03:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

No...the ultimate cause of the fatality was some yutz not disconnecting
from the main while running a generator.

Cites? I've read numerous OSHA accident reports and not one supported
that conclusion.

http://www.electricenergyonline.com/..._news&id=38786

Oddly enough..that was right at the top of the google search list...

Sorry, but that in no way supports you claim and is also not an OSHA
report. There is no "supposed to be dead" in the lineman's handbook,
there is only "tested and grounded before working bare handed", a
mandatory procedure that will prevent injury in *all* generator back
feed cases as well as the many cases of poor coordination between line
crews.

Is the man dead or not as the result of some schlub not taking his genny
off the mains?

The factual answer to that question is "no". The man is dead due to his
failure to follow company and OSHA mandatory safety procedures. No
amount of emotion changes that fact.


You will note that there are at least 30 articles from various
newspapers recounting his death. He may not have grounded his line.

Yep, and not grounding that line per mandatory safety procedures is what
killed him. The source of the electrons, be they from a private
generator or the utility's generator is irrelevant.


And if that person didnt put on their seatbelt...they were still killed
by the drunk driver.

Not a valid analogy. The mandatory grounding procedure is a 100%
assurance against electrocution.




And in each and every case..the genny owner paid a very expensive price
for killing someone.

False convictions. The US's pathetic legal system is rife with them. I
do A/V work with a lot of attys. doing pre-trial research with test jury
pools for technical civil cases and the jurors rarely ever come up with
the correct verdict. The whole legal system is designed to select the
least qualified, most emotionally manipulatable jurors - it's just a big
scam.

No wonder Liberals havent all been killed yet. They are so easy to
manipulate.

It's generally liberal attys. manipulating the poorly educated, and that
demographic leans toward the conservative side, though the liberal side
is catching up in the "poorly educated" race. It's all part of the Great
Global Tidy Bowl Swirl (tm).

So you are saying that its been Liberal attornies who have been
manipulating the Red States?

Manipulating court cases. I've seen it first hand in both "red" and
"blue" states.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:18:58 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:00:03 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:03:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

No...the ultimate cause of the fatality was some yutz not disconnecting
from the main while running a generator.

Cites? I've read numerous OSHA accident reports and not one supported
that conclusion.

http://www.electricenergyonline.com/..._news&id=38786

Oddly enough..that was right at the top of the google search list...

Sorry, but that in no way supports you claim and is also not an OSHA
report. There is no "supposed to be dead" in the lineman's handbook,
there is only "tested and grounded before working bare handed", a
mandatory procedure that will prevent injury in *all* generator back
feed cases as well as the many cases of poor coordination between line
crews.

Is the man dead or not as the result of some schlub not taking his genny
off the mains?

The factual answer to that question is "no". The man is dead due to his
failure to follow company and OSHA mandatory safety procedures. No
amount of emotion changes that fact.


You will note that there are at least 30 articles from various
newspapers recounting his death. He may not have grounded his line.

Yep, and not grounding that line per mandatory safety procedures is what
killed him. That line can go live at any time for any number of reasons,
a private generator, another line crew up the line, a tree branch
falling of the line and removing a short, etc. The source of the
electrons, be they from a private generator or the utility's generator
is irrelevant.


And if that person didnt put on their seatbelt...they were still killed
by the drunk driver.

Not a valid analogy. The mandatory grounding procedure is a 100%
assurance against electrocution.




And in each and every case..the genny owner paid a very expensive price
for killing someone.

False convictions. The US's pathetic legal system is rife with them. I
do A/V work with a lot of attys. doing pre-trial research with test jury
pools for technical civil cases and the jurors rarely ever come up with
the correct verdict. The whole legal system is designed to select the
least qualified, most emotionally manipulatable jurors - it's just a big
scam.

No wonder Liberals havent all been killed yet. They are so easy to
manipulate.

It's generally liberal attys. manipulating the poorly educated, and that
demographic leans toward the conservative side, though the liberal side
is catching up in the "poorly educated" race. It's all part of the Great
Global Tidy Bowl Swirl (tm).

So you are saying that its been Liberal attornies who have been
manipulating the Red States?

Manipulating court cases. I've seen it first hand in both "red" and
"blue" states.