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On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:08:00 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:18:58 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:00:03 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:03:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

No...the ultimate cause of the fatality was some yutz not disconnecting
from the main while running a generator.

Cites? I've read numerous OSHA accident reports and not one supported
that conclusion.

http://www.electricenergyonline.com/..._news&id=38786

Oddly enough..that was right at the top of the google search list...

Sorry, but that in no way supports you claim and is also not an OSHA
report. There is no "supposed to be dead" in the lineman's handbook,
there is only "tested and grounded before working bare handed", a
mandatory procedure that will prevent injury in *all* generator back
feed cases as well as the many cases of poor coordination between line
crews.


Is the man dead or not as the result of some schlub not taking his genny
off the mains?


The factual answer to that question is "no". The man is dead due to his
failure to follow company and OSHA mandatory safety procedures. No
amount of emotion changes that fact.


Fascinating. So you have to be one of those Leftwingers ...blame the
victim.




You will note that there are at least 30 articles from various
newspapers recounting his death. He may not have grounded his line.


Yep, and not grounding that line per mandatory safety procedures is what
killed him. The source of the electrons, be they from a private
generator or the utility's generator is irrelevant.


And if that person didnt put on their seatbelt...they were still killed
by the drunk driver.


Not a valid analogy. The mandatory grounding procedure is a 100%
assurance against electrocution.


Wearing a seatbelt is a 90%er.

Weasel all you want..the guy was killed by a schlub who wired up genset
the 1000% WRONG WAY!

Gunner





And in each and every case..the genny owner paid a very expensive price
for killing someone.

False convictions. The US's pathetic legal system is rife with them. I
do A/V work with a lot of attys. doing pre-trial research with test jury
pools for technical civil cases and the jurors rarely ever come up with
the correct verdict. The whole legal system is designed to select the
least qualified, most emotionally manipulatable jurors - it's just a big
scam.

No wonder Liberals havent all been killed yet. They are so easy to
manipulate.

It's generally liberal attys. manipulating the poorly educated, and that
demographic leans toward the conservative side, though the liberal side
is catching up in the "poorly educated" race. It's all part of the Great
Global Tidy Bowl Swirl (tm).


So you are saying that its been Liberal attornies who have been
manipulating the Red States?


Manipulating court cases. I've seen it first hand in both "red" and
"blue" states.


Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.
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Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:08:00 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:18:58 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:00:03 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:03:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Its a life taker if you do.

That's the claim, however I've yet to find any incident report that
supports that claim. In every "lineman killed by improperly connected
generator" report I've read (and I've read quite a few) the ultimate
cause of the incident and fatality was the lineman failing to follow
their mandatory procedures and ground the line before working on it.

No...the ultimate cause of the fatality was some yutz not disconnecting
from the main while running a generator.

Cites? I've read numerous OSHA accident reports and not one supported
that conclusion.

http://www.electricenergyonline.com/..._news&id=38786

Oddly enough..that was right at the top of the google search list...

Sorry, but that in no way supports you claim and is also not an OSHA
report. There is no "supposed to be dead" in the lineman's handbook,
there is only "tested and grounded before working bare handed", a
mandatory procedure that will prevent injury in *all* generator back
feed cases as well as the many cases of poor coordination between line
crews.

Is the man dead or not as the result of some schlub not taking his genny
off the mains?


The factual answer to that question is "no". The man is dead due to his
failure to follow company and OSHA mandatory safety procedures. No
amount of emotion changes that fact.


Fascinating. So you have to be one of those Leftwingers ...blame the
victim.


I blame the person at fault. The fact is that the lineman would not have
been killed if he had followed mandatory safety procedures. The lineman
****ed up, didn't follow procedures and died as a result - end of story.
Put another way, what you are saying is no different than an anti gun
loon trying to blame a gun manufacturer for someone committing suicide
with a gun they manufactured.




You will note that there are at least 30 articles from various
newspapers recounting his death. He may not have grounded his line.


Yep, and not grounding that line per mandatory safety procedures is what
killed him. The source of the electrons, be they from a private
generator or the utility's generator is irrelevant.


And if that person didnt put on their seatbelt...they were still killed
by the drunk driver.


Not a valid analogy. The mandatory grounding procedure is a 100%
assurance against electrocution.


Wearing a seatbelt is a 90%er.

Weasel all you want..the guy was killed by a schlub who wired up genset
the 1000% WRONG WAY!


The guy was killed because he was careless and disobeyed both company
and OSHA safety regulations. The guy who provided the electrons the
lineman committed suicide with is in no way responsible. Just as the
manufacturers who provided the gun and ammo that someone else committed
suicide with are not responsible.
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On 2010-12-21, Pete C. wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:08:00 -0600, "Pete C."
Is the man dead or not as the result of some schlub not taking his genny
off the mains?

The factual answer to that question is "no". The man is dead due to his
failure to follow company and OSHA mandatory safety procedures. No
amount of emotion changes that fact.


Fascinating. So you have to be one of those Leftwingers ...blame the
victim.


I blame the person at fault. The fact is that the lineman would not have
been killed if he had followed mandatory safety procedures. The lineman
****ed up, didn't follow procedures and died as a result - end of story.
Put another way, what you are saying is no different than an anti gun
loon trying to blame a gun manufacturer for someone committing suicide
with a gun they manufactured.


I find this story a little bit beyond my own limits of credulity.

The lineman was supposedly working on a high or medium voltage line,
serving some substations, transformers etc and probably many
customers.

Apparently, the lineman did not properly ground the line.

Leaving aside the question of "fault", I cannot see how a single home
generator could power the entire line, power up presumably many homes
and businesses, and raise the voltage in the line to kill the lineman,
without stalling immediately. The power required just "isn't there".

I find it more believable that a) the lineman did not ground the line
and b) someone at the utility energized the line that was being worked
on, and then they tried to blame a nebulous "homeowner", conveniently,
but in apparent disregard of the laws of physics.

i
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On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

I blame the person at fault. The fact is that the lineman would not have
been killed if he had followed mandatory safety procedures. The lineman
****ed up, didn't follow procedures and died as a result - end of story.
Put another way, what you are saying is no different than an anti gun
loon trying to blame a gun manufacturer for someone committing suicide
with a gun they manufactured.


So gun makers fire the shot that hit the guy that wasnt wearing body
armor..so its his fault?

Interesting.

Been off your meds long?

gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.
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Ignoramus30024 wrote:

On 2010-12-21, Pete C. wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:08:00 -0600, "Pete C."
Is the man dead or not as the result of some schlub not taking his genny
off the mains?

The factual answer to that question is "no". The man is dead due to his
failure to follow company and OSHA mandatory safety procedures. No
amount of emotion changes that fact.

Fascinating. So you have to be one of those Leftwingers ...blame the
victim.


I blame the person at fault. The fact is that the lineman would not have
been killed if he had followed mandatory safety procedures. The lineman
****ed up, didn't follow procedures and died as a result - end of story.
Put another way, what you are saying is no different than an anti gun
loon trying to blame a gun manufacturer for someone committing suicide
with a gun they manufactured.


I find this story a little bit beyond my own limits of credulity.

The lineman was supposedly working on a high or medium voltage line,
serving some substations, transformers etc and probably many
customers.

Apparently, the lineman did not properly ground the line.

Leaving aside the question of "fault", I cannot see how a single home
generator could power the entire line, power up presumably many homes
and businesses, and raise the voltage in the line to kill the lineman,
without stalling immediately. The power required just "isn't there".

I find it more believable that a) the lineman did not ground the line
and b) someone at the utility energized the line that was being worked
on, and then they tried to blame a nebulous "homeowner", conveniently,
but in apparent disregard of the laws of physics.

i


It doesn't take a very long zap at 13,200V. Circuit breakers take time
to trip, and voltages have to rise before current flows.

At any rate, the credibility of that particular story really isn't the
issue, the fact that is is simply not possible for a lineman to be
electrocuted if he follows the safety procedures is the issue. If he
fails to follow the safety procedures the fault is his alone, just as if
he picked up a gun put it in his mouth and pulled the trigger.


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On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

The guy was killed because he was careless and disobeyed both company
and OSHA safety regulations. The guy who provided the electrons the
lineman committed suicide with is in no way responsible.


Sorry, Pete, but it takes two to fry an idiot. I think most of us will
disagree with you on that last statement. Yes, an idiot lineman who
doesn't act carefully is -most- responsible, but the asswipe who
charged the power line he was working on was also responsible for his
death.

It's illegal (in many areas) to charge the power line with a genset,
period.


Just as the
manufacturers who provided the gun and ammo that someone else committed
suicide with are not responsible.


Agreed, 100%.

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey
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On 2010-12-21, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

The guy was killed because he was careless and disobeyed both company
and OSHA safety regulations. The guy who provided the electrons the
lineman committed suicide with is in no way responsible.


Sorry, Pete, but it takes two to fry an idiot. I think most of us will
disagree with you on that last statement. Yes, an idiot lineman who
doesn't act carefully is -most- responsible, but the asswipe who
charged the power line he was working on was also responsible for his
death.

It's illegal (in many areas) to charge the power line with a genset,
period.


You know, maybe you can shed light on something. I thought that owners
of things such as solar panels, and maybe even generators, can get a
refund or money from the power company, if they feed power into an
electric line.

Is that not backfeeding? How is it different? Is there some safety to
such arrangements? Would a careless lineman ever be killed by a
backfeeding solar panel or a generator?

Curious in Illinois

i


Just as the
manufacturers who provided the gun and ammo that someone else committed
suicide with are not responsible.


Agreed, 100%.

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On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 21:03:47 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-21, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

The guy was killed because he was careless and disobeyed both company
and OSHA safety regulations. The guy who provided the electrons the
lineman committed suicide with is in no way responsible.


Sorry, Pete, but it takes two to fry an idiot. I think most of us will
disagree with you on that last statement. Yes, an idiot lineman who
doesn't act carefully is -most- responsible, but the asswipe who
charged the power line he was working on was also responsible for his
death.

It's illegal (in many areas) to charge the power line with a genset,
period.


You know, maybe you can shed light on something. I thought that owners
of things such as solar panels, and maybe even generators, can get a
refund or money from the power company, if they feed power into an
electric line.

Is that not backfeeding? How is it different? Is there some safety to
such arrangements? Would a careless lineman ever be killed by a
backfeeding solar panel or a generator?

Curious in Illinois


Check with your power company. There is likely an electrical or
electronic shutoff feature which prevents these technologies from
feeding a dead grid. Power on, relay connects, eh?

Here's one state's regs:
http://www.ehow.com/list_6910183_mis...back-grid.html

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey
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"Pete C." writes:


a) Gasoline: Chances are your insurance company, fire marshal
and the local EPA will be all over you if you want to store more
than a few gallons of gasoline. Plus it spoils. You can rotate
it out by burning it in cars.


Gas can be stabilized for a year without much issue, and can easily be
rotated through vehicle use at more frequent intervals. Storing more
than a few gallons isn't a huge issue as long as you can store it in a
suitable dedicated space with secondary spill containment and the
appropriate warning signs.


Call me when you have the permits and insurance sign-off.

Diesel full has a very long lifetime if properly stored. Diesel biocide
is readily available to kill any critters that may try to grow, and

....
c) Propane: Burns clean, since you consume vapor. Stores forever,
and does not upset the fire marshal. But it does need a large tank
for a reasonable capacity.


Sorry, LP does indeed upset the fire marshals in some areas.



I've just been deep in this doing engineering work for a rural
NorCal house project.

Gasoline was never considered. I used to work at a tank farm
with ~25E6 gallons of gasoline.....

We looked at Diesel but the consensus from both practicing
maintainers and the engine suppliers was to never use more than
24 month old fuel. While the homebuilder does have a Diesel
tractor, backhoe, road grader and a bulldozer; you still have a
hassle with all the biocides, etc.

CalFire, the AHJ, has no issue with an aboveground or buried 1000
gal propane tank if it has the appropriate vents and shutoffs per
code, and this is in a redwood forest.

Further, storing that much Diesel required local EPA approval;
maybe a dike etc. But nothing for propane; if it leaks, it's not
draining into a watershed.

There are two downsides to propane. First, standby power
maintainers said they failed to start more often, but
the usual cause was no fuel! [I.e. operator error; poor
testing.]. Secondly, it's really hard to get the propane truck
there at the drop of a hat. Post-earthquake, it could be a
week....

So along with the autostart propane 15 KW, he's getting a ~20KW
PTO generator for the Diesel tractor. Worst case, he can drive
to the supplier and pick up a 55 gal drum.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
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Ignoramus30024 writes:


You know, maybe you can shed light on something. I thought that owners
of things such as solar panels, and maybe even generators, can get a
refund or money from the power company, if they feed power into an
electric line.


Is that not backfeeding? How is it different? Is there some safety to
such arrangements? Would a careless lineman ever be killed by a
backfeeding solar panel or a generator?


There is an elaborate standard, IEEE 1547, designed to prevent
"islanding" by grid-tie inverters. When the grid dies, they drop
off line. When the grid is restored, they wait several minutes
before restarting themselves.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433


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On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:37:28 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-21, Pete C. wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:08:00 -0600, "Pete C."
Is the man dead or not as the result of some schlub not taking his genny
off the mains?

The factual answer to that question is "no". The man is dead due to his
failure to follow company and OSHA mandatory safety procedures. No
amount of emotion changes that fact.

Fascinating. So you have to be one of those Leftwingers ...blame the
victim.


I blame the person at fault. The fact is that the lineman would not have
been killed if he had followed mandatory safety procedures. The lineman
****ed up, didn't follow procedures and died as a result - end of story.
Put another way, what you are saying is no different than an anti gun
loon trying to blame a gun manufacturer for someone committing suicide
with a gun they manufactured.


I find this story a little bit beyond my own limits of credulity.

The lineman was supposedly working on a high or medium voltage line,
serving some substations, transformers etc and probably many
customers.

Apparently, the lineman did not properly ground the line.

Leaving aside the question of "fault", I cannot see how a single home
generator could power the entire line, power up presumably many homes
and businesses, and raise the voltage in the line to kill the lineman,
without stalling immediately. The power required just "isn't there".

I find it more believable that a) the lineman did not ground the line
and b) someone at the utility energized the line that was being worked
on, and then they tried to blame a nebulous "homeowner", conveniently,
but in apparent disregard of the laws of physics.

i


Or there was one house on that end of the line and the morons killed
him.

Never seen bad things happen have you?

Gunner

Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.
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David Lesher wrote:

"Pete C." writes:

a) Gasoline: Chances are your insurance company, fire marshal
and the local EPA will be all over you if you want to store more
than a few gallons of gasoline. Plus it spoils. You can rotate
it out by burning it in cars.


Gas can be stabilized for a year without much issue, and can easily be
rotated through vehicle use at more frequent intervals. Storing more
than a few gallons isn't a huge issue as long as you can store it in a
suitable dedicated space with secondary spill containment and the
appropriate warning signs.


Call me when you have the permits and insurance sign-off.


I don't need any here. Despite what some folks believe, there are still
places that have no nazi-nannys.


Diesel full has a very long lifetime if properly stored. Diesel biocide
is readily available to kill any critters that may try to grow, and

...
c) Propane: Burns clean, since you consume vapor. Stores forever,
and does not upset the fire marshal. But it does need a large tank
for a reasonable capacity.


Sorry, LP does indeed upset the fire marshals in some areas.


I've just been deep in this doing engineering work for a rural
NorCal house project.


I'm pretty sure you need a permit to breath in CA...


Gasoline was never considered. I used to work at a tank farm
with ~25E6 gallons of gasoline.....

We looked at Diesel but the consensus from both practicing
maintainers and the engine suppliers was to never use more than
24 month old fuel. While the homebuilder does have a Diesel
tractor, backhoe, road grader and a bulldozer; you still have a
hassle with all the biocides, etc.


Keep water out and you don't need much if any biocide. Those diesel tank
tampons do a decent job of removing what water might get in the tank.


CalFire, the AHJ, has no issue with an aboveground or buried 1000
gal propane tank if it has the appropriate vents and shutoffs per
code, and this is in a redwood forest.

Further, storing that much Diesel required local EPA approval;
maybe a dike etc. But nothing for propane; if it leaks, it's not
draining into a watershed.


Secondary containment isn't really a big deal.


There are two downsides to propane. First, standby power
maintainers said they failed to start more often, but
the usual cause was no fuel! [I.e. operator error; poor
testing.]. Secondly, it's really hard to get the propane truck
there at the drop of a hat. Post-earthquake, it could be a
week....


Fuel resupply is certainly an issue for an extended outage. Fuel
diversity is a good idea if the loads are critical and there is any
probability of long outages.


So along with the autostart propane 15 KW, he's getting a ~20KW
PTO generator for the Diesel tractor. Worst case, he can drive
to the supplier and pick up a 55 gal drum.


Yep, backup for your backup is always a good idea. I've got three or
four levels of backup here.
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Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:37:28 -0600, Ignoramus30024
wrote:

On 2010-12-21, Pete C. wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:08:00 -0600, "Pete C."
Is the man dead or not as the result of some schlub not taking his genny
off the mains?

The factual answer to that question is "no". The man is dead due to his
failure to follow company and OSHA mandatory safety procedures. No
amount of emotion changes that fact.

Fascinating. So you have to be one of those Leftwingers ...blame the
victim.

I blame the person at fault. The fact is that the lineman would not have
been killed if he had followed mandatory safety procedures. The lineman
****ed up, didn't follow procedures and died as a result - end of story.
Put another way, what you are saying is no different than an anti gun
loon trying to blame a gun manufacturer for someone committing suicide
with a gun they manufactured.


I find this story a little bit beyond my own limits of credulity.

The lineman was supposedly working on a high or medium voltage line,
serving some substations, transformers etc and probably many
customers.

Apparently, the lineman did not properly ground the line.

Leaving aside the question of "fault", I cannot see how a single home
generator could power the entire line, power up presumably many homes
and businesses, and raise the voltage in the line to kill the lineman,
without stalling immediately. The power required just "isn't there".

I find it more believable that a) the lineman did not ground the line
and b) someone at the utility energized the line that was being worked
on, and then they tried to blame a nebulous "homeowner", conveniently,
but in apparent disregard of the laws of physics.

i


Or there was one house on that end of the line and the morons killed
him.


The simple fact is the careless moron killed himself.
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Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

I blame the person at fault. The fact is that the lineman would not have
been killed if he had followed mandatory safety procedures. The lineman
****ed up, didn't follow procedures and died as a result - end of story.
Put another way, what you are saying is no different than an anti gun
loon trying to blame a gun manufacturer for someone committing suicide
with a gun they manufactured.


So gun makers fire the shot that hit the guy that wasnt wearing body
armor..so its his fault?


Sorry dippy-do, the careless lineman pulled the trigger himself.
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Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

The guy was killed because he was careless and disobeyed both company
and OSHA safety regulations. The guy who provided the electrons the
lineman committed suicide with is in no way responsible.


Sorry, Pete, but it takes two to fry an idiot. I think most of us will
disagree with you on that last statement. Yes, an idiot lineman who
doesn't act carefully is -most- responsible, but the asswipe who
charged the power line he was working on was also responsible for his
death.


Sorry, if the lineman followed mandatory procedures he would be alive.
The fault is his alone. It doesn't matter whether the electrons came
from a private generator or the utility's generator, the sole
responsibility lies with the lineman who disregarded mandatory safety
procedures.


It's illegal (in many areas) to charge the power line with a genset,
period.


Sorry, the power lines are always charged from a genset, usually a very
large one. And either way, the source of the electrons is irrelevant to
the negligent lineman's death.


Just as the
manufacturers who provided the gun and ammo that someone else committed
suicide with are not responsible.


Agreed, 100%.


If you agree with that, then you have to agree with the lineman's fault,
since it is the same situation.


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Ignoramus30024 wrote:

On 2010-12-21, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

The guy was killed because he was careless and disobeyed both company
and OSHA safety regulations. The guy who provided the electrons the
lineman committed suicide with is in no way responsible.


Sorry, Pete, but it takes two to fry an idiot. I think most of us will
disagree with you on that last statement. Yes, an idiot lineman who
doesn't act carefully is -most- responsible, but the asswipe who
charged the power line he was working on was also responsible for his
death.

It's illegal (in many areas) to charge the power line with a genset,
period.


You know, maybe you can shed light on something. I thought that owners
of things such as solar panels, and maybe even generators, can get a
refund or money from the power company, if they feed power into an
electric line.

Is that not backfeeding? How is it different? Is there some safety to
such arrangements? Would a careless lineman ever be killed by a
backfeeding solar panel or a generator?

Curious in Illinois


Search on "grid tie inverter" for details on this.
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On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 07:19:17 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

The guy was killed because he was careless and disobeyed both company
and OSHA safety regulations. The guy who provided the electrons the
lineman committed suicide with is in no way responsible.


Sorry, Pete, but it takes two to fry an idiot. I think most of us will
disagree with you on that last statement. Yes, an idiot lineman who
doesn't act carefully is -most- responsible, but the asswipe who
charged the power line he was working on was also responsible for his
death.


Sorry, if the lineman followed mandatory procedures he would be alive.


Yes, the odds were much higher if he'd followed procedure.


The fault is his alone. It doesn't matter whether the electrons came
from a private generator or the utility's generator, the sole
responsibility lies with the lineman who disregarded mandatory safety
procedures.


It's illegal (in many areas) to charge the power line with a genset,
period.


Sorry, the power lines are always charged from a genset, usually a very
large one.


DBAD.


And either way, the source of the electrons is irrelevant to
the negligent lineman's death.


It's safety related and does matter. Do you think if that some idiot
in the power plant had told him that the power was down (when it
wasn't) that his head wouldn't roll for attempted murder (or murder)
of the lineman?


Just as the
manufacturers who provided the gun and ammo that someone else committed
suicide with are not responsible.


Agreed, 100%.


If you agree with that, then you have to agree with the lineman's fault,
since it is the same situation.


No, the guy's genset in this case would be like a guy sneaking in with
a hooked coat hanger and pulling the trigger of a loaded gun before it
was holstered. It's criminal negligence to most of us. shrug

--
If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.
-- Meister Eckhart
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On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 07:15:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

I blame the person at fault. The fact is that the lineman would not have
been killed if he had followed mandatory safety procedures. The lineman
****ed up, didn't follow procedures and died as a result - end of story.
Put another way, what you are saying is no different than an anti gun
loon trying to blame a gun manufacturer for someone committing suicide
with a gun they manufactured.


So gun makers fire the shot that hit the guy that wasnt wearing body
armor..so its his fault?


Sorry dippy-do, the careless lineman pulled the trigger himself.


Im afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject.

Gunner, who has a transfer switch on his genny/house interface.


Top 10 Democrat Party Slogans

10. Bitterly clinging to aborton and taxes
9. We didnt destroy your freedoms, you can
visit them at the Smithstonian
8. If you want us to listen to your opinion, move to Europ
7. Someday none of this will be yours
6. We can't tax terrorism, so who cares?
5. Please don't vote us out!! None of us can hold a real job!
4. Why the Founding Fathers limited Government:
Racism!
3. Reducing America's carbon footprint, one job at a time.
2. America: We just cant wait to see how it ends!!
1. Making everything in this country free, except you.
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Larry Jaques wrote:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 07:19:17 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

The guy was killed because he was careless and disobeyed both company
and OSHA safety regulations. The guy who provided the electrons the
lineman committed suicide with is in no way responsible.

Sorry, Pete, but it takes two to fry an idiot. I think most of us will
disagree with you on that last statement. Yes, an idiot lineman who
doesn't act carefully is -most- responsible, but the asswipe who
charged the power line he was working on was also responsible for his
death.


Sorry, if the lineman followed mandatory procedures he would be alive.


Yes, the odds were much higher if he'd followed procedure.


Not "much higher", they would have been 100%. A properly grounded line
will not go hot.


The fault is his alone. It doesn't matter whether the electrons came
from a private generator or the utility's generator, the sole
responsibility lies with the lineman who disregarded mandatory safety
procedures.


It's illegal (in many areas) to charge the power line with a genset,
period.


Sorry, the power lines are always charged from a genset, usually a very
large one.


DBAD.

And either way, the source of the electrons is irrelevant to
the negligent lineman's death.


It's safety related and does matter. Do you think if that some idiot
in the power plant had told him that the power was down (when it
wasn't) that his head wouldn't roll for attempted murder (or murder)
of the lineman?


Linemen are regularly enabled to kill themselves by uncoordinated line
crews (especially with contract crews during a big storm cleanup), by
branches falling and removing a short followed by reclosers reclosing,
and numerous other sources. In all case the difference between dead and
safe comes down to the lineman's compliance with safety procedures - the
fault is his own.

I've read an incident report where a car accident plowed a pad mount
transformer off it's pad. The lineman showed up and then proceeded to
try to inspect and clean the "elbow" connectors (HV banana plugs
basically) without bothering to verify that they were not still live.
Would you try to blame the car driver for this lineman's act of
stupidity? I believe that idiot survived his zap and perhaps learned why
those safety procedures are mandatory.


Just as the
manufacturers who provided the gun and ammo that someone else committed
suicide with are not responsible.

Agreed, 100%.


If you agree with that, then you have to agree with the lineman's fault,
since it is the same situation.


No, the guy's genset in this case would be like a guy sneaking in with
a hooked coat hanger and pulling the trigger of a loaded gun before it
was holstered. It's criminal negligence to most of us. shrug


No, that is not remotely close to a valid analogy. The guy with the
generator loaned his gun to the lineman, but it was the lineman who
picked it up, put it to his head and pulled the trigger. It is not in
any way criminal negligence. It is not even negligence since the
lineman's mandatory safety procedures would have 100% prevented any
injury. The negligence is on the part of the lineman not following
mandatory procedures - He broke the rules and he was killed as a result
- nothing else is relevant to his death.
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Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 07:15:31 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

I blame the person at fault. The fact is that the lineman would not have
been killed if he had followed mandatory safety procedures. The lineman
****ed up, didn't follow procedures and died as a result - end of story.
Put another way, what you are saying is no different than an anti gun
loon trying to blame a gun manufacturer for someone committing suicide
with a gun they manufactured.

So gun makers fire the shot that hit the guy that wasnt wearing body
armor..so its his fault?


Sorry dippy-do, the careless lineman pulled the trigger himself.


Im afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject.

Gunner, who has a transfer switch on his genny/house interface.


I have a Square D interlock kit on my QO panel.


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On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 16:45:16 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 07:19:17 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

The guy was killed because he was careless and disobeyed both company
and OSHA safety regulations. The guy who provided the electrons the
lineman committed suicide with is in no way responsible.

Sorry, Pete, but it takes two to fry an idiot. I think most of us will
disagree with you on that last statement. Yes, an idiot lineman who
doesn't act carefully is -most- responsible, but the asswipe who
charged the power line he was working on was also responsible for his
death.

Sorry, if the lineman followed mandatory procedures he would be alive.


Yes, the odds were much higher if he'd followed procedure.


Not "much higher", they would have been 100%. A properly grounded line
will not go hot.


Who's to say he wouldn't have fallen and killed himself even after
grounding if it sparked when he did so? (bait, no response necessary)


It's safety related and does matter. Do you think if that some idiot
in the power plant had told him that the power was down (when it
wasn't) that his head wouldn't roll for attempted murder (or murder)
of the lineman?


Linemen are regularly enabled to kill themselves by uncoordinated line
crews (especially with contract crews during a big storm cleanup), by
branches falling and removing a short followed by reclosers reclosing,
and numerous other sources. In all case the difference between dead and
safe comes down to the lineman's compliance with safety procedures - the
fault is his own.


OK, you got it, the death is on the lineman alone.

But the idiot who fed back his genset is still guilty of a crime. I
mean, it's not like the salesman, the manual, TV, and most of his
neighbors hadn't warned him about pulling that stunt.

--
If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.
-- Meister Eckhart
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Larry Jaques wrote:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 16:45:16 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 07:19:17 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:04:27 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

The guy was killed because he was careless and disobeyed both company
and OSHA safety regulations. The guy who provided the electrons the
lineman committed suicide with is in no way responsible.

Sorry, Pete, but it takes two to fry an idiot. I think most of us will
disagree with you on that last statement. Yes, an idiot lineman who
doesn't act carefully is -most- responsible, but the asswipe who
charged the power line he was working on was also responsible for his
death.

Sorry, if the lineman followed mandatory procedures he would be alive.

Yes, the odds were much higher if he'd followed procedure.


Not "much higher", they would have been 100%. A properly grounded line
will not go hot.


Who's to say he wouldn't have fallen and killed himself even after
grounding if it sparked when he did so? (bait, no response necessary)


All work is performed with full hot line gear until the line is
grounded. Linemen are quite used to sparking connections.


It's safety related and does matter. Do you think if that some idiot
in the power plant had told him that the power was down (when it
wasn't) that his head wouldn't roll for attempted murder (or murder)
of the lineman?


Linemen are regularly enabled to kill themselves by uncoordinated line
crews (especially with contract crews during a big storm cleanup), by
branches falling and removing a short followed by reclosers reclosing,
and numerous other sources. In all case the difference between dead and
safe comes down to the lineman's compliance with safety procedures - the
fault is his own.


OK, you got it, the death is on the lineman alone.

But the idiot who fed back his genset is still guilty of a crime. I
mean, it's not like the salesman, the manual, TV, and most of his
neighbors hadn't warned him about pulling that stunt.


Yea, code violation - cease and desist, pay $100 permit fee and do it
correctly. That is if he's in an area that requires permits, if not - no
code, no crime (no permits where I am).
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Gunner Asch on Mon, 20 Dec 2010 13:58:05 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:47:50 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



Get the government out of the way and the economy will fix itself.


I'm not so sure about that. A good portion of the source of the current
problems was the government being "out of the way". And I'm no fan of
government.


Part of the problem is that the Government allowed some of the
players to not have "skin in the game", as the saying goes, and then
cut back on the oversight necessitated by that lack of moral hazard.
It could be compared to me figuring a way to "securities" my
wagers at a poker table, and selling them off - all the while rolling
my bar tab into the deal. Hey, it is no longer "my money" I'm playing
with - sure I can draw to an inside straight.

I'm not sure how to make sure the banks keep the hazard of their
investments, but that is a partial solution. Enlightened self
interest.

FDR did the same bull****....

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla...sion-5409.aspx


That too.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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"Pete C." writes:


Call me when you have the permits and insurance sign-off.


I don't need any here. Despite what some folks believe, there are still
places that have no nazi-nannys.


Try telling your homeowners insurance company that, post-fire.
My policy is not handy but it does have some gotcha limit on
gasoline storage, FAR below the 1000 gal point.

Sorry, LP does indeed upset the fire marshals in some areas.


I've just been deep in this doing engineering work for a rural
NorCal house project.


I'm pretty sure you need a permit to breath in CA...


Yes, but the propane tank is NOT an insurmountable issue.

Keep water out and you don't need much if any biocide. Those diesel tank
tampons do a decent job of removing what water might get in the tank.


You might note it's drizzling slightly in the state...


CalFire, the AHJ, has no issue with an aboveground or buried 1000
gal propane tank if it has the appropriate vents and shutoffs per
code, and this is in a redwood forest.

Further, storing that much Diesel required local EPA approval;
maybe a dike etc. But nothing for propane; if it leaks, it's not
draining into a watershed.


Secondary containment isn't really a big deal.


Tell me that AFTER you get the permits to bury the 1000gal Diesel
tankage in a pine forest...


Fuel resupply is certainly an issue for an extended outage. Fuel
diversity is a good idea if the loads are critical and there is any
probability of long outages.


We have 15KW of solar, the pad propane unit, the PTO Diesel, and
worst case, a 5KW gasoline single-phase Honda. Wait! There's the
Prius!

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
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David Lesher wrote:

"Pete C." writes:

Call me when you have the permits and insurance sign-off.


I don't need any here. Despite what some folks believe, there are still
places that have no nazi-nannys.


Try telling your homeowners insurance company that, post-fire.
My policy is not handy but it does have some gotcha limit on
gasoline storage, FAR below the 1000 gal point.


You probably also live on a postage stamp where there isn't room for a
proper separation of such a storage facility, I don't have such an
issue.


Sorry, LP does indeed upset the fire marshals in some areas.

I've just been deep in this doing engineering work for a rural
NorCal house project.


I'm pretty sure you need a permit to breath in CA...


Yes, but the propane tank is NOT an insurmountable issue.


But what happens when the mudslide uproots the tank and smashes it,
dumping all the LP in one explosive cloud?


Keep water out and you don't need much if any biocide. Those diesel tank
tampons do a decent job of removing what water might get in the tank.


You might note it's drizzling slightly in the state...


I'm pretty sure we figured out how to make sealed tanks and over
pressure vents many years ago.



CalFire, the AHJ, has no issue with an aboveground or buried 1000
gal propane tank if it has the appropriate vents and shutoffs per
code, and this is in a redwood forest.

Further, storing that much Diesel required local EPA approval;
maybe a dike etc. But nothing for propane; if it leaks, it's not
draining into a watershed.


Secondary containment isn't really a big deal.


Tell me that AFTER you get the permits to bury the 1000gal Diesel
tankage in a pine forest...


I don't need permits where I live.


Fuel resupply is certainly an issue for an extended outage. Fuel
diversity is a good idea if the loads are critical and there is any
probability of long outages.


We have 15KW of solar, the pad propane unit, the PTO Diesel, and
worst case, a 5KW gasoline single-phase Honda. Wait! There's the
Prius!


Backup for your backup is a good thing.


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On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 06:30:51 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

"Pete C." writes:


Fuel resupply is certainly an issue for an extended outage. Fuel
diversity is a good idea if the loads are critical and there is any
probability of long outages.


We have 15KW of solar, the pad propane unit, the PTO Diesel, and
worst case, a 5KW gasoline single-phase Honda. Wait! There's the
Prius!


Prius hybrid? What's the generator capacity of those beasties?
A/C, or straight D/C? Interesting idea.

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.
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Michael A. Terrell wrote:

You had an 18 KW Generac in your RV?

--Yeah that sounds about right. When I bought the RV, like a "smart"
buyer I turned on the genny and let it run for a few minutes: no problemo.
But the first time I took the RV on a long trip and I reeeeeally needed the
genny to run the A/C it quit after about a 15 min run! Wouldn't start up
again until it had cooled down (and I warmed up!). Turns out there's an
issue with a coil of some sort that overheats, causes shorts, and stops
working.
--I called Generac, or rather tried to: they've been bought out by
another co and they don't seem to give a **** about old machine repair! I
couldn't get *anyone* to give me ANY help at all; i.e. no addresses of
authorized repair centers, no parts available from mfr, etc. In other words
it's a dead duck and I bought a pig in a poke.
--In the end I bit the bullet and bought an Onan; had it installed
by an authorized dealer (since gone out of biz in these hard times) and have
had zero problems. Do yourself a favor and ditch the Generac: it's a boat
anchor.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Steel, Stainless, Titanium:
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : Guaranteed Uncertified Welding!
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
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On 2010-12-22, steamer wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

You had an 18 KW Generac in your RV?

--Yeah that sounds about right. When I bought the RV, like a "smart"
buyer I turned on the genny and let it run for a few minutes: no problemo.
But the first time I took the RV on a long trip and I reeeeeally needed the
genny to run the A/C it quit after about a 15 min run! Wouldn't start up
again until it had cooled down (and I warmed up!). Turns out there's an
issue with a coil of some sort that overheats, causes shorts, and stops
working.
--I called Generac, or rather tried to: they've been bought out by
another co and they don't seem to give a **** about old machine repair! I
couldn't get *anyone* to give me ANY help at all; i.e. no addresses of
authorized repair centers, no parts available from mfr, etc. In other words
it's a dead duck and I bought a pig in a poke.
--In the end I bit the bullet and bought an Onan; had it installed
by an authorized dealer (since gone out of biz in these hard times) and have
had zero problems. Do yourself a favor and ditch the Generac: it's a boat
anchor.


Onan has awesome parts support, though pricey.

I agree with you

i
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"Pete C." writes:


My policy is not handy but it does have some gotcha limit on
gasoline storage, FAR below the 1000 gal point.


You probably also live on a postage stamp where there isn't room for a
proper separation of such a storage facility, I don't have such an
issue.


Where I live is not the issue; it's where my client is, and it's
55 acres of forest. The permiiting process for a 1000 gal buried tank
would have taken years and cost $10k easily. For a propane tank,
it's a $100 fee and a check off.

But what happens when the mudslide uproots the tank and smashes it,
dumping all the LP in one explosive cloud?


Not a lot of landslides in dense forests. Denuded hillside, oh yes.

Keep water out and you don't need much if any biocide. Those diesel tank
tampons do a decent job of removing what water might get in the tank.


You might note it's drizzling slightly in the state...


I'm pretty sure we figured out how to make sealed tanks and over
pressure vents many years ago.


Well, when I worked on a tank farm, we drained the water from the
tankage weekly or more often. If you enjoy doing that kind of
scud work, have at it. And nothing so far has resolved the fact
that the manufacturer recommends not storing fuel 24 months.

Further, storing that much Diesel required local EPA approval;
maybe a dike etc. But nothing for propane; if it leaks, it's not
draining into a watershed.


Secondary containment isn't really a big deal.


Tell me that AFTER you get the permits to bury the 1000gal Diesel
tankage in a pine forest...


I don't need permits where I live.


You have a US EPA waiver, or live outside the US?

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
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Larry Jaques writes:


Prius hybrid? What's the generator capacity of those beasties?
A/C, or straight D/C? Interesting idea.


www.priups.com

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433


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Oops, that's a field report to pay attention.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"steamer" wrote in message
...
--Stay the heck AWAY from Generac! Had one in my RV; you can
NOT get
parts for 'em. The company stinks for tech support too. ****
'em.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Steel, Stainless,
Titanium:
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : Guaranteed
Uncertified Welding!
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---


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Glad you're planning and researching. Sounds like you'll
make a good choice. Please note that standby generators
typically have a crankcase, and need regular oil changes.

If you're not a female, are you a hermaphrodite?

I have male friends named Kelly, Lynn, Pat, Chris, and knew
a boy named Stacey, years ago.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Laurie Forbes" wrote in message
...
Thanks everyone for their input. I'll try to respond to the
questions
and points.

First off, I calculate the cost of operating a 17KW unit at
50% load on
NG at about $10/d (the cost of NG here, in Calgary, Canada,
is about
$3.50 per GJ (gigajoule)). IIRC a GJ is roughly the same as
1,000,000 BTU.

I'm in Canada so no worries about Obama. We also don't get
earthquakes
here so no worries about interruption of the NG service (we
have places
around here that have not had in interruption in several
decades).

This unit is not for a home but for a wildlife rescue/rehab
facility
which is not attended 24 hrs/day. So, we want auto
start/stop. It has
to be idiot proof as some (most?)of the staff & volunteers
are what you
might call mechanically challenged.

In short, it has to be reliable, work automatically and, not
break the
bank as we are a non-profit with limited resources. I have
had some
comments from a couple of suppliers here that Generac
warranty and
service are kind of spotty here but have had no adverse
comments on any
build quality/reliability issues.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Laurie (not female BTW) Forbes


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David Lesher wrote:
Larry writes:


Prius hybrid? What's the generator capacity of those beasties?
A/C, or straight D/C? Interesting idea.


www.priups.com


Near the end of our most recent outage, I ran my fridge
off an inverter connected to my car battery.
Just sat in the car reading a book for half an hour
with the car idling in the driveway.
I had all the parts so the setup cost me about
US $0.50 in gas.

Served french - press coffee to SWMBO too.
A little inverter powered from another car battery
powered the bean grinder.

She couldn't believe it.

--Winston
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If I was married, I'm sure my wife would not believe,
if I handed her a cup of coffee during a power cut.
But, not for the same reasons.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Winston"
wrote in message ...

Near the end of our most recent outage, I ran my fridge
off an inverter connected to my car battery.
Just sat in the car reading a book for half an hour
with the car idling in the driveway.
I had all the parts so the setup cost me about
US $0.50 in gas.

Served french - press coffee to SWMBO too.
A little inverter powered from another car battery
powered the bean grinder.

She couldn't believe it.

--Winston


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steamer wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

You had an 18 KW Generac in your RV?

--Yeah that sounds about right. When I bought the RV, like a "smart"
buyer I turned on the genny and let it run for a few minutes: no problemo.
But the first time I took the RV on a long trip and I reeeeeally needed the
genny to run the A/C it quit after about a 15 min run! Wouldn't start up
again until it had cooled down (and I warmed up!). Turns out there's an
issue with a coil of some sort that overheats, causes shorts, and stops
working.
--I called Generac, or rather tried to: they've been bought out by
another co and they don't seem to give a **** about old machine repair! I
couldn't get *anyone* to give me ANY help at all; i.e. no addresses of
authorized repair centers, no parts available from mfr, etc. In other words
it's a dead duck and I bought a pig in a poke.



How old is it? At some point in time, all brands drop long term
support.


--In the end I bit the bullet and bought an Onan; had it installed
by an authorized dealer (since gone out of biz in these hard times) and have
had zero problems. Do yourself a favor and ditch the Generac: it's a boat
anchor.



I don't own the 18 KW Generac, my next door neighbor does. I see a
lot of them in this area and have never heard anyone complain about not
being able to get service. I see a few Onans, but only in the 500+ KW
class.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!


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On 2010-12-23, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

steamer wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

You had an 18 KW Generac in your RV?

--Yeah that sounds about right. When I bought the RV, like a "smart"
buyer I turned on the genny and let it run for a few minutes: no problemo.
But the first time I took the RV on a long trip and I reeeeeally needed the
genny to run the A/C it quit after about a 15 min run! Wouldn't start up
again until it had cooled down (and I warmed up!). Turns out there's an
issue with a coil of some sort that overheats, causes shorts, and stops
working.
--I called Generac, or rather tried to: they've been bought out by
another co and they don't seem to give a **** about old machine repair! I
couldn't get *anyone* to give me ANY help at all; i.e. no addresses of
authorized repair centers, no parts available from mfr, etc. In other words
it's a dead duck and I bought a pig in a poke.



How old is it? At some point in time, all brands drop long term
support.


I still can buy parts for my 1974 Clausing lathe. I am happy and
Clausing makes money/.

i


--In the end I bit the bullet and bought an Onan; had it installed
by an authorized dealer (since gone out of biz in these hard times) and have
had zero problems. Do yourself a favor and ditch the Generac: it's a boat
anchor.



I don't own the 18 KW Generac, my next door neighbor does. I see a
lot of them in this area and have never heard anyone complain about not
being able to get service. I see a few Onans, but only in the 500+ KW
class.


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Ignoramus30015 wrote:

On 2010-12-23, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

steamer wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

You had an 18 KW Generac in your RV?
--Yeah that sounds about right. When I bought the RV, like a "smart"
buyer I turned on the genny and let it run for a few minutes: no problemo.
But the first time I took the RV on a long trip and I reeeeeally needed the
genny to run the A/C it quit after about a 15 min run! Wouldn't start up
again until it had cooled down (and I warmed up!). Turns out there's an
issue with a coil of some sort that overheats, causes shorts, and stops
working.
--I called Generac, or rather tried to: they've been bought out by
another co and they don't seem to give a **** about old machine repair! I
couldn't get *anyone* to give me ANY help at all; i.e. no addresses of
authorized repair centers, no parts available from mfr, etc. In other words
it's a dead duck and I bought a pig in a poke.



How old is it? At some point in time, all brands drop long term
support.


I still can buy parts for my 1974 Clausing lathe. I am happy and
Clausing makes money/.



That's not old, for a lathe. They made the parts. the last time I
checked, I could still buy every body part for a 50 year old 'Union
City' step van from the factory. They were the steel bodied GMC &
Chevy, and mabe some other brands. How about this? I can still buy
'Edison Base' lamps, which were first made over 130 years ago.


Now, try that with a 50 year old, non military standby generator of
any brand.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!
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On 2010-12-23, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Ignoramus30015 wrote:

On 2010-12-23, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

steamer wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

You had an 18 KW Generac in your RV?
--Yeah that sounds about right. When I bought the RV, like a "smart"
buyer I turned on the genny and let it run for a few minutes: no problemo.
But the first time I took the RV on a long trip and I reeeeeally needed the
genny to run the A/C it quit after about a 15 min run! Wouldn't start up
again until it had cooled down (and I warmed up!). Turns out there's an
issue with a coil of some sort that overheats, causes shorts, and stops
working.
--I called Generac, or rather tried to: they've been bought out by
another co and they don't seem to give a **** about old machine repair! I
couldn't get *anyone* to give me ANY help at all; i.e. no addresses of
authorized repair centers, no parts available from mfr, etc. In other words
it's a dead duck and I bought a pig in a poke.


How old is it? At some point in time, all brands drop long term
support.


I still can buy parts for my 1974 Clausing lathe. I am happy and
Clausing makes money/.



That's not old, for a lathe. They made the parts. the last time I
checked, I could still buy every body part for a 50 year old 'Union
City' step van from the factory. They were the steel bodied GMC &
Chevy, and mabe some other brands. How about this? I can still buy
'Edison Base' lamps, which were first made over 130 years ago.


Now, try that with a 50 year old, non military standby generator of
any brand.



I bought parts for a Onan DJE, which is by now almost 40 years old.

i
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Ignoramus30015 wrote:

On 2010-12-23, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Ignoramus30015 wrote:

On 2010-12-23, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

steamer wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

You had an 18 KW Generac in your RV?
--Yeah that sounds about right. When I bought the RV, like a "smart"
buyer I turned on the genny and let it run for a few minutes: no problemo.
But the first time I took the RV on a long trip and I reeeeeally needed the
genny to run the A/C it quit after about a 15 min run! Wouldn't start up
again until it had cooled down (and I warmed up!). Turns out there's an
issue with a coil of some sort that overheats, causes shorts, and stops
working.
--I called Generac, or rather tried to: they've been bought out by
another co and they don't seem to give a **** about old machine repair! I
couldn't get *anyone* to give me ANY help at all; i.e. no addresses of
authorized repair centers, no parts available from mfr, etc. In other words
it's a dead duck and I bought a pig in a poke.


How old is it? At some point in time, all brands drop long term
support.

I still can buy parts for my 1974 Clausing lathe. I am happy and
Clausing makes money/.



That's not old, for a lathe. They made the parts. the last time I
checked, I could still buy every body part for a 50 year old 'Union
City' step van from the factory. They were the steel bodied GMC &
Chevy, and mabe some other brands. How about this? I can still buy
'Edison Base' lamps, which were first made over 130 years ago.


Now, try that with a 50 year old, non military standby generator of
any brand.



I bought parts for a Onan DJE, which is by now almost 40 years old.



1: What parts?

2: When did that model go out of production?

3: Were those parts used only on that one model? If no, when was the
last unit that used them built & shipped?


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 19:51:55 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

Larry Jaques writes:


Prius hybrid? What's the generator capacity of those beasties?
A/C, or straight D/C? Interesting idea.


www.priups.com


"The same independent research foundation,** using accepted methods of
sampling and polling***, determined that most* people would prefer not
to spend money on a big, expensive generator, even if they don't have
to pull on the cord."

But isn't a Prius hybrid an expensive generator?

I know, temporary retasking. Works for me.

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.
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