I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin

We use a mill to take larger keystock down to the smaller dimension
thickness, use a file to match the key stock width to the munched up
keyway. A royal pain but what else can you do?

wrote:
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin

On Mar 31, 10:06*pm, RoyJ wrote:
We use a mill to take larger keystock down to the smaller dimension
thickness, use a file to match the key stock width to the munched up
keyway. A royal pain but what else can you do?



wrote:
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. *Thanks *Martin- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Flip the shaft over and recut a new one 180 degrees off. It's what
shapers do(or for that narrow, it wouldn't take long with a thin
file). Or use a filled epoxy, JB Weld might work. I've used it on
worn shafts with flats before. If you ever want to get it apart
again, you might use some type of mold release on the key and hub...

Stan

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:02:54 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin

Mill a new keyway on the other side of the shaft.

On Apr 1, 12:02�am, wrote:
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. �Thanks �Martin

Use a roll pin in place of a square key. Prepare new keyway by
mounting the fan without the key, and drill down the keyways with a
smaller drill -- say a number 13 (.185") for a 3/16 (.1875) roll pin.
Use a BFH to seat your new key.

On Apr 1, 12:02*am, wrote:
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. *Thanks *Martin

There might be a way to fix them without machine tools but it's hard
to guess without seeing the problem. Could you post some pix on one of
the commercial sites (not here directly) like Picasa? You don't need
their special software, the Basic Uploader works fine.

On Apr 1, 12:52*am, wrote:
On Mar 31, 10:06*pm, RoyJ wrote:

We use a mill to take larger keystock down to the smaller dimension
thickness, use a file to match the key stock width to the munched up
keyway. A royal pain but what else can you do?

wrote:
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. *Thanks *Martin- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Flip the shaft over and recut a new one 180 degrees off. *It's what
shapers do(or for that narrow, it wouldn't take long with a thin
file). *Or use a filled epoxy, JB Weld might work. *I've used it on
worn shafts with flats before. *If you ever want to get it apart
again, you might use some type of mold release on the key and hub...

Stan

I know what jb weld is whats filled epoxy the key way isn't totally
ruined only in the middle if i used one of those products and recut it
do you think it would hold.

On Apr 1, 1:20*am, wrote:
On Apr 1, 12:02 am, wrote:

I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin

Use a roll pin in place of a square key. *Prepare new keyway by
mounting the fan without the key, and drill down the keyways with a
smaller drill -- say a number 13 (.185") for a 3/16 (.1875) roll pin.
Use a BFH to seat your new key.

How would I get the drill bit that close to the shaft to drill
parallel to the shaft

The filled expoxies are no where near strong enough to withstand the
pounding of a key. The original shaft had steel in the 50kpsi range, JB
weld is 3000psi(??) Cutting a new keyway is the best solution but it is
not an option for most folks.

wrote:
On Mar 31, 10:06 pm, RoyJ wrote:
We use a mill to take larger keystock down to the smaller dimension
thickness, use a file to match the key stock width to the munched up
keyway. A royal pain but what else can you do?



wrote:
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Flip the shaft over and recut a new one 180 degrees off. It's what
shapers do(or for that narrow, it wouldn't take long with a thin
file). Or use a filled epoxy, JB Weld might work. I've used it on
worn shafts with flats before. If you ever want to get it apart
again, you might use some type of mold release on the key and hub...

Stan

Loctite® Quick Metal® Repairs Gear Box Input Shaft, Saves Paper Mill
Million Dollar Shutdown
Loctite® Quick Metal® Retaining Compound keeps paper mill running on
coal and saves it asubstantial amount of money.

Challenge:
A paper mill experienced a failure of a grid-type coupling hub on the
main drive of their coal conveyor due to a wallowed keyway and
spinning of the coupling hub on the gearbox input shaft. With no
spare gearbox, the maintenance team determined the paper machines
would have to be shut down in order to switch over to natural gas.

Solution:
A millwright who had been attending the Loctite® Manufacturing
Reliability Training Process at the plant suggested a method of repair
for the coupling to gearbox input shaft with Loctite® Quick Metal®
Retaining Compound, a creamy, non-running adhesive that can be used
between machinery parts to repair worn areas and restore correct fits.


https://tds.us.henkel.com//NA/UT/HNAUTTDS.nsf/web/6D9EC2FC4F2B5770882571870000D864/$File/660-EN.pdf

No connected to them just had good results with their products.

regards
Tim

wrote in message
...
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin

Get a Climax shaft keyway cutter and cut the keyway over size and make a
step key for it.

http://www.cpmt.com/tool_over_km.php

They show a video of it in operation.

Richard W.

wrote:
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin

Cut a new keyway 180 degrees off from the current one.
Recut the keyways to the next size.


--
Steve W.

On Apr 1, 12:52*am, wrote:
On Mar 31, 10:06*pm, RoyJ wrote:

We use a mill to take larger keystock down to the smaller dimension
thickness, use a file to match the key stock width to the munched up
keyway. A royal pain but what else can you do?

wrote:
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. *Thanks *Martin- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Flip the shaft over and recut a new one 180 degrees off. *It's what
shapers do(or for that narrow, it wouldn't take long with a thin
file). *Or use a filled epoxy, JB Weld might work. *I've used it on
worn shafts with flats before. *If you ever want to get it apart
again, you might use some type of mold release on the key and hub...

Stan

Do you think I could cut a new keyway with a file and exactly what
type of file should I use. thanks

wrote in message
...
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin

You have several good ideas for repair. You also need to install a setscrew
over the key or otherwise tighten up the fit so there is absolutely no
movement between the shaft and hub. Multiple setscrews or roll pins might be
considered. Otherwise the same thing will likely happen again.

Don Young

Cutting a key way with a file is possible but extremely ugly job.
Cutting down a key is no big deal.

wrote:
On Apr 1, 12:52 am, wrote:
On Mar 31, 10:06 pm, RoyJ wrote:

We use a mill to take larger keystock down to the smaller dimension
thickness, use a file to match the key stock width to the munched up
keyway. A royal pain but what else can you do?
wrote:
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Flip the shaft over and recut a new one 180 degrees off. It's what
shapers do(or for that narrow, it wouldn't take long with a thin
file). Or use a filled epoxy, JB Weld might work. I've used it on
worn shafts with flats before. If you ever want to get it apart
again, you might use some type of mold release on the key and hub...

Stan

Do you think I could cut a new keyway with a file and exactly what
type of file should I use. thanks

On Apr 1, 8:50*pm, wrote:

Do you think I could cut a new keyway with a file and exactly what
type of file should I use. *thanks

Still no photos, plus we don't know what you have for machine tools or
skills. A 'hand" or "pillar" file has parallel sides unlike the usual
mill file, and a safe edge that lets it cut the slot wider without
deepening it. But I think you'll find it extremely difficult to file
the motor shaft key slot wider and keep the sides parallel and aligned
straight with the keyway in the hub. Chances are when the new
oversized key fits it will make contact at only a few places and will
soon pound the slot wider.

This is the tool that cuts a keyway slot in the hub:
http://www.dumont.com/procedur.html
They aren't cheap and you need a press, hammering is likely to break
them.

If I absolutely had to do this without a milling machine, I would
broach the hub to 3/16", chisel and file the shaft slot close but
undersized, and then install the hub and tap in a 3/16" lathe bit to
raise a chip at the edges of the shaft slot. The hub should guide the
bit straight. File down the chip, tap the lathe bit in a litle
further, file and repeat. I'd grind a sharp square end on the bit and
then bevel the hub side slightly so only the shaft side cuts.

It's an easy job on a milling machine.

Jim Wilkins

wrote in message
...
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin

Buy new pulleys with taper bushing hubs.

Loctite the new bushings to the shaft, but not to the pulley. The taper lock
to the pulley will be fine, and leaving it dry with facilitate disassemble
someday, if needed.

Forget the keyways.

On 2009-04-02, Tim #__#@__.- wrote:

wrote in message
...
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin

Buy new pulleys with taper bushing hubs.

Loctite the new bushings to the shaft, but not to the pulley. The taper lock
to the pulley will be fine, and leaving it dry with facilitate disassemble
someday, if needed.

This is something I have been wondering about since 3 months ago: do
these tapered pulley bushings, if thouroughly tightened, require
keyways at all or they can be used without a keyway?

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

"Ignoramus12193" wrote in message
...
On 2009-04-02, Tim #__#@__.- wrote:

wrote in message
...
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair.
Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin

Buy new pulleys with taper bushing hubs.

Loctite the new bushings to the shaft, but not to the pulley. The taper
lock
to the pulley will be fine, and leaving it dry with facilitate
disassemble
someday, if needed.

This is something I have been wondering about since 3 months ago: do
these tapered pulley bushings, if thouroughly tightened, require
keyways at all or they can be used without a keyway?

Depends entirely on what you are driving, and if you Loctite them to the
shaft.

He is driving a fan with an 1/8" keyway. I'm betting this is both a low
horsepower and smooth transfer of power, and the it will work fine.

But if you drive something like a compressor with an electric motor, or a
mower blade with a gasoline engine, you will probably, but not certainly
need the key. In these examples you are driving a reciprocating load with a
continuous source, or a continuous load with a reciprocating source. So the
shock loading is a considerable factor.

He is driving a continuous load (fan) with a continuous source (electric
motor), so I bet he will be ok. The only questions is, can is find a taper
pulley for his shaft size. The 1/8" key makes me think we might be talking
about a 1/2" shaft, and I don't know if they make them that small.

On 2009-04-02, Tim #__#@__.- wrote:
Depends entirely on what you are driving,

10 HP reciprocating compressor.

and if you Loctite them to the shaft.

I did not use loctite, and I did use a little custom key that I had to
make. (I had to bore the pulley hub, motor and hub have different
keyway widths etc etc so the piece had to be custom shaped). I mae it
out of regular mild steel.

He is driving a fan with an 1/8" keyway. I'm betting this is both a low
horsepower and smooth transfer of power, and the it will work fine.

possibly a lot of vibration.


But if you drive something like a compressor with an electric motor, or a
mower blade with a gasoline engine, you will probably, but not certainly
need the key. In these examples you are driving a reciprocating load with a
continuous source, or a continuous load with a reciprocating source. So the
shock loading is a considerable factor.

Good point.

He is driving a continuous load (fan) with a continuous source (electric
motor), so I bet he will be ok. The only questions is, can is find a taper
pulley for his shaft size. The 1/8" key makes me think we might be talking
about a 1/2" shaft, and I don't know if they make them that small.

Might even be 7/16 shaft.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Apr 2, 7:00*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Apr 1, 8:50*pm, wrote:



Do you think I could cut a new keyway with a file and exactly what
type of file should I use. *thanks

Still no photos, plus we don't know what you have for machine tools or
skills. A 'hand" or "pillar" file has parallel sides unlike the usual
mill file, and a safe edge that lets it cut the slot wider without
deepening it. But I think you'll find it extremely difficult to file
the motor shaft key slot wider and keep the sides parallel and aligned
straight with the keyway in the hub. Chances are when the new
oversized key fits it will make contact at only a few places and will
soon pound the slot wider.

This is the tool that cuts a keyway slot in the hub:http://www.dumont.com/procedur.html
They aren't cheap and you need a press, hammering is likely to break
them.

If I absolutely had to do this without a milling machine, I would
broach the hub to 3/16", chisel and file the shaft slot close but
undersized, and then install the hub and tap in a 3/16" lathe bit to
raise a chip at the edges of the shaft slot. The hub should guide the
bit straight. File down the chip, tap the lathe bit in a litle
further, file and repeat. I'd grind a sharp square end on the bit and
then bevel the hub side slightly so only the shaft side cuts.

It's an easy job on a milling machine.

Jim Wilkins
I'm just the guy that owns the laundromat but I do all the repairs
including bearings on these motors. If I did this right the picture is
at

http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...CMCV7KSt0Or3Pw

On Apr 2, 9:48*am, wrote:
On Apr 2, 7:00*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
[Picasa]

I'm just the guy that owns the laundromat but I do all the repairs
including bearings on these motors. If I did this right the picture is
at

*http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...=Gv1sRgCMC...-

Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub?

On Apr 2, 10:49*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Apr 2, 9:48*am, wrote:

On Apr 2, 7:00*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
* [Picasa]

I'm just the guy that owns the laundromat but I do all the repairs
including bearings on these motors. If I did this right the picture is
at

*http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...hkey=Gv1sRgCMC...

Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub?

it's a14 in. fiberglass fan the keyway on the fan seems to be in good
condition

wrote in message
...
On Apr 2, 10:49 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Apr 2, 9:48 am, wrote:

On Apr 2, 7:00 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
[Picasa]

I'm just the guy that owns the laundromat but I do all the repairs
including bearings on these motors. If I did this right the picture is
at

http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...hkey=Gv1sRgCMC...

Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub?

it's a14 in. fiberglass fan the keyway on the fan seems to be in good
condition


This motor seems small enough that it may just be cheaper to replace it than
to fix it.

Richard W.

On Apr 2, 8:47*pm, "Richard W." wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Apr 2, 10:49 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Apr 2, 9:48 am, wrote:

On Apr 2, 7:00 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
[Picasa]

I'm just the guy that owns the laundromat but I do all the repairs
including bearings on these motors. If I did this right the picture is
at

http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...hkey=Gv1sRgCMC...

Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub?

it's a14 in. fiberglass fan the keyway on the fan seems to be in good
condition

This motor seems small enough that it may just be cheaper to replace it than
to fix it.

Richard W.

Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new
keyway cut on the other side of the shaft

I'm not aware of anything special about your partiular motors, but new
surplus motors typically sell for about $20-$40 from surplus sellers.

It might be worthwhile to look at few surplus sources, such as the Surplus
Center, or various other sources.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/

You may need to drill a couple of mounting holes or shim the mount a little
for a different style of case, but a new motor is good insurance for your
business profits.
You might even be able to find new surplus blower wheels for your dryers
that have set screws for mounting instead of the threaded shaft of the
original equipment motors.

If you have a good motor repair shop nearby, they may have some used rotors
with threaded shaft ends, but I wouldn't consider it to be very likely.

Fractional-horsepower motors are cheap. When bought new, you can reasonably
expect that the centrifugal switch, a capacitor or a bearing isn't going to
fail in a month.

That shaft in the picture is mangled to the extent of being scrap. To be
repaired correctly it should have the shaft built up to full diameter with
weld, turned on lathe, then have a new keyway cut in it.
It's unlikely that any epoxy or makeshift fix will be permanent.

I wouldn't know if this is a common problem with your dryers, but you'd be
wise to routinely check each machine. Keys with set screws would be more
secure for this application, but not if the screw threads would be in the
fiberglas material. If there is a steel, aluminum or brass hub molded into
the fiberglas fan, drilling and tapping an accurate hole over the keyway
should ensure that the key doesn't start wallowing out the keyway on the
shaft.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


wrote in message news:8209232b-2c5a-4e2b-97a4-

http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...hkey=Gv1sRgCMC...

On Apr 2, 10:49 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub?

it's a14 in. fiberglass fan the keyway on the fan seems to be in good
condition

This motor seems small enough that it may just be cheaper to replace it
than
to fix it.

Richard W.

Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new
keyway cut on the other side of the shaft

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:44:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:



Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new
keyway cut on the other side of the shaft

Can you attach one of the flanged or face-mount collars in the middle
of this page to the fan and not bother with the key?
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/1149/=1a0dny

--
Ned Simmons

wrote in message
...
On Apr 2, 8:47 pm, "Richard W." wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Apr 2, 10:49 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Apr 2, 9:48 am, wrote:

On Apr 2, 7:00 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
[Picasa]

I'm just the guy that owns the laundromat but I do all the repairs
including bearings on these motors. If I did this right the picture is
at

http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...hkey=Gv1sRgCMC...

Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub?

it's a14 in. fiberglass fan the keyway on the fan seems to be in good
condition

This motor seems small enough that it may just be cheaper to replace it
than
to fix it.

Richard W.

Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new
keyway cut on the other side of the shaft

I got the impression you didn't have the equipment to do it, or why would
you ask if it could be done with a file.

Richard W.

On Apr 2, 9:44*pm, wrote:
...

Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new
keyway cut on the other side of the shaft

If you go shopping around for quotes I suggest taking one motor and
fan with you.

On Apr 2, 11:04*pm, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
I'm not aware of anything special about your partiular motors, but new
surplus motors typically sell for about $20-$40 from surplus sellers.

It might be worthwhile to look at few surplus sources, such as the Surplus
Center, or various other sources.http://www.surpluscenter.com/

You may need to drill a couple of mounting holes or shim the mount a little
for a different style of case, but a new motor is good insurance for your
business profits.
You might even be able to find new surplus blower wheels for your dryers
that have set screws for mounting instead of the threaded shaft of the
original equipment motors.

If you have a good motor repair shop nearby, they may have some used rotors
with threaded shaft ends, but I wouldn't consider it to be very likely.

Fractional-horsepower motors are cheap. When bought new, you can reasonably
expect that the centrifugal switch, a capacitor or a bearing isn't going to
fail in a month.

That shaft in the picture is mangled to the extent of being scrap. To be
repaired correctly it should have the shaft built up to full diameter with
weld, turned on *lathe, then have a new keyway cut in it.
It's unlikely that any epoxy or makeshift fix will be permanent.

I wouldn't know if this is a common problem with your dryers, but you'd be
wise to routinely check each machine. Keys with set screws would be more
secure for this application, but not if the screw threads would be in the
fiberglas material. If there is a steel, aluminum or brass hub molded into
the fiberglas fan, drilling and tapping an accurate hole over the keyway
should ensure that the key doesn't start wallowing out the keyway on the
shaft.

--
WB
.........
metalworking projectswww.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

wrote in message news:8209232b-2c5a-4e2b-97a4-
http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...hkey=Gv1sRgCMC...
On Apr 2, 10:49 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub?

it's a14 in. fiberglass fan the keyway on the fan seems to be in good
condition

This motor seems small enough that it may just be cheaper to replace it
than
to fix it.

Richard W.

Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new
keyway cut on the other side of the shaft


I went to the surplus site and I see how with a little modification I
could get a motor much cheaper. The other type dryer motors that i
have one of which burned out and cost me over three hundred has
approx. a 14 in. shaft with a thread on the end what would I do about
that.

On Apr 2, 11:09*pm, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:44:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:



Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new
keyway cut on the other side of the shaft

Can you attach one of the flanged or face-mount collars in the middle
of this page to the fan and not bother with the key?http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/1149/=1a0dny

--
Ned Simmons

That looks like just what I need. Do I understand this, the collar
locks to the shaft then I would attach the collar to fan drilling
holes and using screws or even bolts. I had actually thought of trying
to drill a hole through the nut to help secure it but this looks
perfect. Thanks Martin

On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:58:30 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Apr 2, 11:09*pm, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:44:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:



Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new
keyway cut on the other side of the shaft

Can you attach one of the flanged or face-mount collars in the middle
of this page to the fan and not bother with the key?http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/1149/=1a0dny

--
Ned Simmons

That looks like just what I need. Do I understand this, the collar
locks to the shaft then I would attach the collar to fan drilling
holes and using screws or even bolts. I had actually thought of trying
to drill a hole through the nut to help secure it but this looks
perfect. Thanks Martin

You've got it. Since you're relying on friction between the shaft and
collar to transmit torque, make sure there's no oil or grease on the
shaft and ID of the collar. Grease the collar's clamping screw to
maximize gripping force. If it's more convenient you can modify
standard collars by drilling them yourself.

--
Ned Simmons

On Apr 4, 2:22*pm, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:58:30 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:





On Apr 2, 11:09*pm, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:44:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new
keyway cut on the other side of the shaft

Can you attach one of the flanged or face-mount collars in the middle
of this page to the fan and not bother with the key?http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/1149/=1a0dny

--
Ned Simmons

That looks like just what I need. Do I understand this, the collar
locks to the shaft then I would attach the collar to fan drilling
holes and using screws or even bolts. I had actually thought of trying
to drill a hole through the nut to help secure it but this looks
perfect. *Thanks * Martin

You've got it. Since you're relying on friction between the shaft and
collar to transmit torque, make sure there's no oil or grease on the
shaft and ID of the collar. Grease the collar's clamping screw to
maximize gripping force. If it's more convenient you can modify
standard collars by drilling them yourself.

--
Ned Simmons

Good idea, Ned. The slot could be filed to take the key, since its
slot extends through the threads.

The Surplus Center is only one of hundreds of surplus sellers in the U.S.
I've seen quite a few appliance fractional HP motors with extended shafts
over the years (longer than the motor case), like you mentioned, but I don't
recall where.

An alternative for the long motor shaft might be a modification of the dryer
housing if you can mount separate shaft between a couple of bearings. Then
an ordinary motor with a shaft coupler might eliminate the need for the
special motor.

The shaft collar solution Ned mentioned should work well for a blower/fan
wheel load, as far as gripping the shaft and having a secure connection to
the blower wheel.

You will want to get the collar aligned correctly to the shaft centerline
(almost perfectly perpendicular) so you don't inadvertently introduce any
wobble in the blower wheel. A continuous vibration/shaking in the wheel will
likely break out the fiberglas around the screws that attach the wheel to
the collar.

Without being able to see the actual machines, and not knowing what tools
and skills you have to work with, makes speculating what repairs could/can
possibly be done, mostly guesswork from a distant position.. but many motor
applications can be implemented in various ways to do a particular task.
With the addition of a couple of parts, or some modifiations, it's possible
that one inexpensive motor could be used in different machines.

The down side of obtaining new surplus parts is, that they are often in
limited supply, so if you find a particular part that is especially useful,
get a supply of them.

FWIW, in this economic slump (or other preferred term), your public
facilities may be more in demand, so having equipment in good operating
condition is likely to keep happy customers returning to your business.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


wrote in message
...

I went to the surplus site and I see how with a little modification I
could get a motor much cheaper. The other type dryer motors that i
have one of which burned out and cost me over three hundred has
approx. a 14 in. shaft with a thread on the end what would I do about
that.

On Apr 4, 5:39*pm, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
The Surplus Center is only one of hundreds of surplus sellers in the U.S.
I've seen quite a few appliance fractional HP motors with extended shafts
over the years (longer than the motor case), like you mentioned, but I don't
recall where.

An alternative for the long motor shaft might be a modification of the dryer
housing if you can mount *separate shaft between a couple of bearings. Then
an ordinary motor with a shaft coupler might eliminate the need for the
special motor.

The shaft collar solution Ned mentioned should work well for a blower/fan
wheel load, as far as gripping the shaft and having a secure connection to
the blower wheel.

You will want to get the collar aligned correctly to the shaft centerline
(almost perfectly perpendicular) so you don't inadvertently introduce any
wobble in the blower wheel. A continuous vibration/shaking in the wheel will
likely break out the fiberglas around the screws that attach the wheel to
the collar.

Without being able to see the actual machines, and not knowing what tools
and skills you have to work with, makes speculating what repairs could/can
possibly be done, mostly guesswork from a distant position.. but many motor
applications can be implemented in various ways to do a particular task.
With the addition of a couple of parts, or some modifiations, it's possible
that one inexpensive motor could be used in different machines.

The down side of obtaining new surplus parts is, that they are often in
limited supply, so if you find a particular part that is especially useful,
get a supply of them.

FWIW, in this economic slump (or other preferred term), your public
facilities may be more in demand, so having equipment in good operating
condition is likely to keep happy customers returning to your business.

--
WB
.........
metalworking projectswww.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

wrote in message

...

I went to the surplus site and I see how with a little modification I
could get a motor much cheaper. The other type dryer motors that i
have one of which burned out and cost me over three hundred has
approx. a 14 in. shaft with a thread on the end what would I do about
that.



Any suggestions as to the best way to make sure the collar is
correctly aligned.

As far as fitting a shaft collar to the shaft shown in the picture, I don't
see a good loation for a collar to mate closely like it needs to.

The area where the washers are, might be the only section that isn't
damaged, but I don't know if the collar an be situated at that end, or if it
needs to be at the end where the rusty nuts are (but putting the collar on
the threaded portion of the shaft wouldn't be very reliable, IMO).

The most secure installation for a shaft collar is when the ID of the collar
is fully mated with a shaft diameter (nearly full contact for 360 degrees).

There isn't a full diameter anywhere on the motor shaft in the picture. The
best contact anywhere on that shaft will still result in a less than perfect
fitting of the collar-to-shaft.
Proper alignment of the collar will most likely depend entirely on luck,
patience, trial and error.

Hand filing a section of key to match the shaft diameter should help if the
collar can be situated where the washers are (key to fill keyway
under/inside the collar).
I suspect that there is more damage in the bore of the blower wheel hub.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


wrote in message
...
On Apr 4, 5:39 pm, "Wild_Bill" wrote:

The shaft collar solution Ned mentioned should work well for a blower/fan
wheel load, as far as gripping the shaft and having a secure connection to
the blower wheel.

You will want to get the collar aligned correctly to the shaft centerline
(almost perfectly perpendicular) so you don't inadvertently introduce any
wobble in the blower wheel. A continuous vibration/shaking in the wheel
will
likely break out the fiberglas around the screws that attach the wheel to
the collar.

Without being able to see the actual machines, and not knowing what tools
and skills you have to work with, makes speculating what repairs could/can
possibly be done, mostly guesswork from a distant position.. but many
motor
applications can be implemented in various ways to do a particular task.
With the addition of a couple of parts, or some modifiations, it's
possible
that one inexpensive motor could be used in different machines.

--
WB
.........
metalworking projectswww.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

wrote in message

...

I went to the surplus site and I see how with a little modification I
could get a motor much cheaper. The other type dryer motors that i
have one of which burned out and cost me over three hundred has
approx. a 14 in. shaft with a thread on the end what would I do about
that.



Any suggestions as to the best way to make sure the collar is
correctly aligned.

On Apr 5, 10:10*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
As far as fitting a shaft collar to the shaft shown in the picture, I don't
see a good loation for a collar to mate closely like it needs to.
...
I suspect that there is more damage in the bore of the blower wheel hub.
WB

My suspicion also. If the key rolled it had to carve a passage through
the fiberglass although it might not be visible externally.

Possibly a spacer bushing drilled lengthwise for the axial collar
screws would allow the fan and collar to both be located where they
work best. The drive torque would pass through the screws as shear at
the junctions, so they ought to be hardened socket head cap screws.

The spacer could be a square block of scrap aluminum of the right
thickness with a centered hole drilled for the shaft.

I've generally always gotten some level of enjoyment out of repairing stuff
just for my own use, but for a commercial application that a man derives
income from, replacing the motor would very likely be the most cost
effective solution.

The objective as I see it would be to get the machine back in operating
condition so it can be earning money, and not fail again within a short
period of time (putting the guy back at square one).

Anything can be repaired, and this example is no exception. The OP said four
machines have this problem (or four more of 'em), so the cost of replacement
motors, although significant, will eventually be recovered, and the cost is
closer to couple hundred instead of almost a thousand (at over $200 per
motor).

The new motors will probably run reliably for quite some time. When
repairing the old motors, they're still just used motors with lots of hours
on them.

The mangled motor shafts could be repaired fairly quickly and effortlessly
with the right equipment, and the mounting interface between the shaft and
blower wheel could be upgraded/improved, or maybe better-made blower wheels
could be sourced.

As many of the HSMs here know, having a couple of metalworking machines
makes a great many things possible, and often practical.. but we can also
remember when we didn't have the machining capabilities, and generally
everything was much more difficult (and many times just beyond the scope of
our capabilities with only limited tools).

Working with just a hacksaw, file, drill and/or a Dremel or die grinder can
sometimes produce satisfactory results, although progress may be slow.
Relying on epoxies and other band-aid "miracle" products can often be
(should be)last ditch efforts because there might not be a second chance
after trying those products.

Maybe it's mostly age, but I never liked to see someone bust their ass to
attain poor results, yet that's what some folks are used to doing. Many
large companies operate like this year after year.

I've looked at some repair jobs as an opportunity to improve the assembly or
machine, to make it a little better than it was (what led to the
failure/wear), or at least easier to repair the next time if the original
design just demanded periodic repairs.

These methods continue to get more difficult to implement as products are
made more cheaply, essentially throw-way products, and more frequently
finding new products to be faulty as soon as they're taken out of the box.
I'm beginning to dread needing to buy anything new.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Apr 5, 10:10 am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
As far as fitting a shaft collar to the shaft shown in the picture, I
don't
see a good loation for a collar to mate closely like it needs to.
...
I suspect that there is more damage in the bore of the blower wheel hub.
WB

My suspicion also. If the key rolled it had to carve a passage through
the fiberglass although it might not be visible externally.

Possibly a spacer bushing drilled lengthwise for the axial collar
screws would allow the fan and collar to both be located where they
work best. The drive torque would pass through the screws as shear at
the junctions, so they ought to be hardened socket head cap screws.

The spacer could be a square block of scrap aluminum of the right
thickness with a centered hole drilled for the shaft.

On Apr 7, 6:42*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
I've generally always gotten some level of enjoyment out of repairing stuff
just for my own use, but for a commercial application that a man derives
income from, replacing the motor would very likely be the most cost
effective solution.
.....
As many of the HSMs here know, having a couple of metalworking machines
makes a great many things possible, and often practical.. but we can also
remember when we didn't have the machining capabilities, and generally
everything was much more difficult (and many times just beyond the scope of
our capabilities with only limited tools).
.....
Maybe it's mostly age, but I never liked to see someone bust their ass to
attain poor results, yet that's what some folks are used to doing. Many
large companies operate like this year after year.

WB

I fully agree with you but I don't maintain that laundromat.

I have completely different standards for home and commercial
projects. Non-critical projects are sometimes patched together by
whatever cheap means are at hand, cases where I depend on the results
to keep my job or maintain my car and house are done right, bearing
the cost as insurance.

The grey area is making a quick temporary fix to keep a production
line running until the right parts arrive, or a similarly crude fix to
a seldom-used test fixture that will never be redone properly later.
Then it's a judgement call on whether I take too long to do it now or
risk being yanked off an important project to fix it again later.

In this case the OP's serious problem is merely an intellectual
challenge for us. I try not to assert that a certain fix WILL work,
instead only make relatively vague suggestions to widen the range of
choices.

Jim Wilkins

The RCM group is definitely a good place for repair-type suggestions and
recommendations, that's for sure.

Sometimes the response is smack ones' self in the forehead, 'cause the
suggestion was so simple and effective, kind of a "can't see the forest, for
the trees" type of block.

I expect that the OP/smartin has completed a repair by now, and waiting to
see if the effort proves to be durable enough.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Apr 7, 6:42 am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:

I fully agree with you but I don't maintain that laundromat.

I have completely different standards for home and commercial
projects. Non-critical projects are sometimes patched together by
whatever cheap means are at hand, cases where I depend on the results
to keep my job or maintain my car and house are done right, bearing
the cost as insurance.

The grey area is making a quick temporary fix to keep a production
line running until the right parts arrive, or a similarly crude fix to
a seldom-used test fixture that will never be redone properly later.
Then it's a judgement call on whether I take too long to do it now or
risk being yanked off an important project to fix it again later.

In this case the OP's serious problem is merely an intellectual
challenge for us. I try not to assert that a certain fix WILL work,
instead only make relatively vague suggestions to widen the range of
choices.

Jim Wilkins