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Worn keyway
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on
the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin |
Worn keyway
We use a mill to take larger keystock down to the smaller dimension
thickness, use a file to match the key stock width to the munched up keyway. A royal pain but what else can you do? wrote: I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin |
Worn keyway
On Mar 31, 10:06*pm, RoyJ wrote:
We use a mill to take larger keystock down to the smaller dimension thickness, use a file to match the key stock width to the munched up keyway. A royal pain but what else can you do? wrote: I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. *Thanks *Martin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Flip the shaft over and recut a new one 180 degrees off. It's what shapers do(or for that narrow, it wouldn't take long with a thin file). Or use a filled epoxy, JB Weld might work. I've used it on worn shafts with flats before. If you ever want to get it apart again, you might use some type of mold release on the key and hub... Stan |
Worn keyway
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Worn keyway
On Apr 1, 12:02�am, wrote:
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. �Thanks �Martin Use a roll pin in place of a square key. Prepare new keyway by mounting the fan without the key, and drill down the keyways with a smaller drill -- say a number 13 (.185") for a 3/16 (.1875) roll pin. Use a BFH to seat your new key. |
Worn keyway
On Apr 1, 12:02*am, wrote:
I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. *Thanks *Martin There might be a way to fix them without machine tools but it's hard to guess without seeing the problem. Could you post some pix on one of the commercial sites (not here directly) like Picasa? You don't need their special software, the Basic Uploader works fine. |
Worn keyway
On Apr 1, 12:52*am, wrote:
On Mar 31, 10:06*pm, RoyJ wrote: We use a mill to take larger keystock down to the smaller dimension thickness, use a file to match the key stock width to the munched up keyway. A royal pain but what else can you do? wrote: I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. *Thanks *Martin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Flip the shaft over and recut a new one 180 degrees off. *It's what shapers do(or for that narrow, it wouldn't take long with a thin file). *Or use a filled epoxy, JB Weld might work. *I've used it on worn shafts with flats before. *If you ever want to get it apart again, you might use some type of mold release on the key and hub... Stan I know what jb weld is whats filled epoxy the key way isn't totally ruined only in the middle if i used one of those products and recut it do you think it would hold. |
Worn keyway
On Apr 1, 1:20*am, wrote:
On Apr 1, 12:02 am, wrote: I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin Use a roll pin in place of a square key. *Prepare new keyway by mounting the fan without the key, and drill down the keyways with a smaller drill -- say a number 13 (.185") for a 3/16 (.1875) roll pin. Use a BFH to seat your new key. How would I get the drill bit that close to the shaft to drill parallel to the shaft |
Worn keyway
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Million Dollar Shutdown Loctite® Quick Metal® Retaining Compound keeps paper mill running on coal and saves it asubstantial amount of money. Challenge: A paper mill experienced a failure of a grid-type coupling hub on the main drive of their coal conveyor due to a wallowed keyway and spinning of the coupling hub on the gearbox input shaft. With no spare gearbox, the maintenance team determined the paper machines would have to be shut down in order to switch over to natural gas. Solution: A millwright who had been attending the Loctite® Manufacturing Reliability Training Process at the plant suggested a method of repair for the coupling to gearbox input shaft with Loctite® Quick Metal® Retaining Compound, a creamy, non-running adhesive that can be used between machinery parts to repair worn areas and restore correct fits. https://tds.us.henkel.com//NA/UT/HNAUTTDS.nsf/web/6D9EC2FC4F2B5770882571870000D864/$File/660-EN.pdf No connected to them just had good results with their products. regards Tim |
Worn keyway
wrote in message ... I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin Get a Climax shaft keyway cutter and cut the keyway over size and make a step key for it. http://www.cpmt.com/tool_over_km.php They show a video of it in operation. Richard W. |
Worn keyway
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Worn keyway
On Apr 1, 12:52*am, wrote:
On Mar 31, 10:06*pm, RoyJ wrote: We use a mill to take larger keystock down to the smaller dimension thickness, use a file to match the key stock width to the munched up keyway. A royal pain but what else can you do? wrote: I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. *Thanks *Martin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Flip the shaft over and recut a new one 180 degrees off. *It's what shapers do(or for that narrow, it wouldn't take long with a thin file). *Or use a filled epoxy, JB Weld might work. *I've used it on worn shafts with flats before. *If you ever want to get it apart again, you might use some type of mold release on the key and hub... Stan Do you think I could cut a new keyway with a file and exactly what type of file should I use. thanks |
Worn keyway
wrote in message ... I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin You have several good ideas for repair. You also need to install a setscrew over the key or otherwise tighten up the fit so there is absolutely no movement between the shaft and hub. Multiple setscrews or roll pins might be considered. Otherwise the same thing will likely happen again. Don Young |
Worn keyway
Cutting a key way with a file is possible but extremely ugly job.
Cutting down a key is no big deal. wrote: On Apr 1, 12:52 am, wrote: On Mar 31, 10:06 pm, RoyJ wrote: We use a mill to take larger keystock down to the smaller dimension thickness, use a file to match the key stock width to the munched up keyway. A royal pain but what else can you do? wrote: I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Flip the shaft over and recut a new one 180 degrees off. It's what shapers do(or for that narrow, it wouldn't take long with a thin file). Or use a filled epoxy, JB Weld might work. I've used it on worn shafts with flats before. If you ever want to get it apart again, you might use some type of mold release on the key and hub... Stan Do you think I could cut a new keyway with a file and exactly what type of file should I use. thanks |
Worn keyway
On Apr 1, 8:50*pm, wrote:
Do you think I could cut a new keyway with a file and exactly what type of file should I use. *thanks Still no photos, plus we don't know what you have for machine tools or skills. A 'hand" or "pillar" file has parallel sides unlike the usual mill file, and a safe edge that lets it cut the slot wider without deepening it. But I think you'll find it extremely difficult to file the motor shaft key slot wider and keep the sides parallel and aligned straight with the keyway in the hub. Chances are when the new oversized key fits it will make contact at only a few places and will soon pound the slot wider. This is the tool that cuts a keyway slot in the hub: http://www.dumont.com/procedur.html They aren't cheap and you need a press, hammering is likely to break them. If I absolutely had to do this without a milling machine, I would broach the hub to 3/16", chisel and file the shaft slot close but undersized, and then install the hub and tap in a 3/16" lathe bit to raise a chip at the edges of the shaft slot. The hub should guide the bit straight. File down the chip, tap the lathe bit in a litle further, file and repeat. I'd grind a sharp square end on the bit and then bevel the hub side slightly so only the shaft side cuts. It's an easy job on a milling machine. Jim Wilkins |
Worn keyway
wrote in message ... I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin Buy new pulleys with taper bushing hubs. Loctite the new bushings to the shaft, but not to the pulley. The taper lock to the pulley will be fine, and leaving it dry with facilitate disassemble someday, if needed. Forget the keyways. |
Worn keyway
On 2009-04-02, Tim #__#@__.- wrote:
wrote in message ... I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin Buy new pulleys with taper bushing hubs. Loctite the new bushings to the shaft, but not to the pulley. The taper lock to the pulley will be fine, and leaving it dry with facilitate disassemble someday, if needed. This is something I have been wondering about since 3 months ago: do these tapered pulley bushings, if thouroughly tightened, require keyways at all or they can be used without a keyway? -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ |
Worn keyway
"Ignoramus12193" wrote in message ... On 2009-04-02, Tim #__#@__.- wrote: wrote in message ... I have a few electric motors in commercial dryers with warn keyways on the shaft end that holds the fan any suggestions on how to repair. Keyways are 1/8 in. Thanks Martin Buy new pulleys with taper bushing hubs. Loctite the new bushings to the shaft, but not to the pulley. The taper lock to the pulley will be fine, and leaving it dry with facilitate disassemble someday, if needed. This is something I have been wondering about since 3 months ago: do these tapered pulley bushings, if thouroughly tightened, require keyways at all or they can be used without a keyway? Depends entirely on what you are driving, and if you Loctite them to the shaft. He is driving a fan with an 1/8" keyway. I'm betting this is both a low horsepower and smooth transfer of power, and the it will work fine. But if you drive something like a compressor with an electric motor, or a mower blade with a gasoline engine, you will probably, but not certainly need the key. In these examples you are driving a reciprocating load with a continuous source, or a continuous load with a reciprocating source. So the shock loading is a considerable factor. He is driving a continuous load (fan) with a continuous source (electric motor), so I bet he will be ok. The only questions is, can is find a taper pulley for his shaft size. The 1/8" key makes me think we might be talking about a 1/2" shaft, and I don't know if they make them that small. |
Worn keyway
On 2009-04-02, Tim #__#@__.- wrote:
Depends entirely on what you are driving, 10 HP reciprocating compressor. and if you Loctite them to the shaft. I did not use loctite, and I did use a little custom key that I had to make. (I had to bore the pulley hub, motor and hub have different keyway widths etc etc so the piece had to be custom shaped). I mae it out of regular mild steel. He is driving a fan with an 1/8" keyway. I'm betting this is both a low horsepower and smooth transfer of power, and the it will work fine. possibly a lot of vibration. But if you drive something like a compressor with an electric motor, or a mower blade with a gasoline engine, you will probably, but not certainly need the key. In these examples you are driving a reciprocating load with a continuous source, or a continuous load with a reciprocating source. So the shock loading is a considerable factor. Good point. He is driving a continuous load (fan) with a continuous source (electric motor), so I bet he will be ok. The only questions is, can is find a taper pulley for his shaft size. The 1/8" key makes me think we might be talking about a 1/2" shaft, and I don't know if they make them that small. Might even be 7/16 shaft. -- Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers you will need to find a different means of posting on Usenet. http://improve-usenet.org/ |
Worn keyway
On Apr 2, 7:00*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Apr 1, 8:50*pm, wrote: Do you think I could cut a new keyway with a file and exactly what type of file should I use. *thanks Still no photos, plus we don't know what you have for machine tools or skills. A 'hand" or "pillar" file has parallel sides unlike the usual mill file, and a safe edge that lets it cut the slot wider without deepening it. But I think you'll find it extremely difficult to file the motor shaft key slot wider and keep the sides parallel and aligned straight with the keyway in the hub. Chances are when the new oversized key fits it will make contact at only a few places and will soon pound the slot wider. This is the tool that cuts a keyway slot in the hub:http://www.dumont.com/procedur.html They aren't cheap and you need a press, hammering is likely to break them. If I absolutely had to do this without a milling machine, I would broach the hub to 3/16", chisel and file the shaft slot close but undersized, and then install the hub and tap in a 3/16" lathe bit to raise a chip at the edges of the shaft slot. The hub should guide the bit straight. File down the chip, tap the lathe bit in a litle further, file and repeat. I'd grind a sharp square end on the bit and then bevel the hub side slightly so only the shaft side cuts. It's an easy job on a milling machine. Jim Wilkins I'm just the guy that owns the laundromat but I do all the repairs including bearings on these motors. If I did this right the picture is at http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...CMCV7KSt0Or3Pw |
Worn keyway
On Apr 2, 9:48*am, wrote:
On Apr 2, 7:00*am, Jim Wilkins wrote: [Picasa] I'm just the guy that owns the laundromat but I do all the repairs including bearings on these motors. If I did this right the picture is at *http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...=Gv1sRgCMC...- Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub? |
Worn keyway
On Apr 2, 10:49*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Apr 2, 9:48*am, wrote: On Apr 2, 7:00*am, Jim Wilkins wrote: * [Picasa] I'm just the guy that owns the laundromat but I do all the repairs including bearings on these motors. If I did this right the picture is at *http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...hkey=Gv1sRgCMC... Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub? it's a14 in. fiberglass fan the keyway on the fan seems to be in good condition |
Worn keyway
wrote in message ... On Apr 2, 10:49 am, Jim Wilkins wrote: On Apr 2, 9:48 am, wrote: On Apr 2, 7:00 am, Jim Wilkins wrote: [Picasa] I'm just the guy that owns the laundromat but I do all the repairs including bearings on these motors. If I did this right the picture is at http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...hkey=Gv1sRgCMC... Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub? it's a14 in. fiberglass fan the keyway on the fan seems to be in good condition This motor seems small enough that it may just be cheaper to replace it than to fix it. Richard W. |
Worn keyway
On Apr 2, 8:47*pm, "Richard W." wrote:
wrote in message ... On Apr 2, 10:49 am, Jim Wilkins wrote: On Apr 2, 9:48 am, wrote: On Apr 2, 7:00 am, Jim Wilkins wrote: [Picasa] I'm just the guy that owns the laundromat but I do all the repairs including bearings on these motors. If I did this right the picture is at http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...hkey=Gv1sRgCMC... Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub? it's a14 in. fiberglass fan the keyway on the fan seems to be in good condition This motor seems small enough that it may just be cheaper to replace it than to fix it. Richard W. Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new keyway cut on the other side of the shaft |
Worn keyway
I'm not aware of anything special about your partiular motors, but new
surplus motors typically sell for about $20-$40 from surplus sellers. It might be worthwhile to look at few surplus sources, such as the Surplus Center, or various other sources. http://www.surpluscenter.com/ You may need to drill a couple of mounting holes or shim the mount a little for a different style of case, but a new motor is good insurance for your business profits. You might even be able to find new surplus blower wheels for your dryers that have set screws for mounting instead of the threaded shaft of the original equipment motors. If you have a good motor repair shop nearby, they may have some used rotors with threaded shaft ends, but I wouldn't consider it to be very likely. Fractional-horsepower motors are cheap. When bought new, you can reasonably expect that the centrifugal switch, a capacitor or a bearing isn't going to fail in a month. That shaft in the picture is mangled to the extent of being scrap. To be repaired correctly it should have the shaft built up to full diameter with weld, turned on lathe, then have a new keyway cut in it. It's unlikely that any epoxy or makeshift fix will be permanent. I wouldn't know if this is a common problem with your dryers, but you'd be wise to routinely check each machine. Keys with set screws would be more secure for this application, but not if the screw threads would be in the fiberglas material. If there is a steel, aluminum or brass hub molded into the fiberglas fan, drilling and tapping an accurate hole over the keyway should ensure that the key doesn't start wallowing out the keyway on the shaft. -- WB .......... metalworking projects www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html wrote in message news:8209232b-2c5a-4e2b-97a4- http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...hkey=Gv1sRgCMC... On Apr 2, 10:49 am, Jim Wilkins wrote: Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub? it's a14 in. fiberglass fan the keyway on the fan seems to be in good condition This motor seems small enough that it may just be cheaper to replace it than to fix it. Richard W. Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new keyway cut on the other side of the shaft |
Worn keyway
On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:44:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote: Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new keyway cut on the other side of the shaft Can you attach one of the flanged or face-mount collars in the middle of this page to the fan and not bother with the key? http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/1149/=1a0dny -- Ned Simmons |
Worn keyway
wrote in message ... On Apr 2, 8:47 pm, "Richard W." wrote: wrote in message ... On Apr 2, 10:49 am, Jim Wilkins wrote: On Apr 2, 9:48 am, wrote: On Apr 2, 7:00 am, Jim Wilkins wrote: [Picasa] I'm just the guy that owns the laundromat but I do all the repairs including bearings on these motors. If I did this right the picture is at http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...hkey=Gv1sRgCMC... Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub? it's a14 in. fiberglass fan the keyway on the fan seems to be in good condition This motor seems small enough that it may just be cheaper to replace it than to fix it. Richard W. Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new keyway cut on the other side of the shaft I got the impression you didn't have the equipment to do it, or why would you ask if it could be done with a file. Richard W. |
Worn keyway
On Apr 2, 9:44*pm, wrote:
... Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new keyway cut on the other side of the shaft If you go shopping around for quotes I suggest taking one motor and fan with you. |
Worn keyway
On Apr 2, 11:04*pm, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
I'm not aware of anything special about your partiular motors, but new surplus motors typically sell for about $20-$40 from surplus sellers. It might be worthwhile to look at few surplus sources, such as the Surplus Center, or various other sources.http://www.surpluscenter.com/ You may need to drill a couple of mounting holes or shim the mount a little for a different style of case, but a new motor is good insurance for your business profits. You might even be able to find new surplus blower wheels for your dryers that have set screws for mounting instead of the threaded shaft of the original equipment motors. If you have a good motor repair shop nearby, they may have some used rotors with threaded shaft ends, but I wouldn't consider it to be very likely. Fractional-horsepower motors are cheap. When bought new, you can reasonably expect that the centrifugal switch, a capacitor or a bearing isn't going to fail in a month. That shaft in the picture is mangled to the extent of being scrap. To be repaired correctly it should have the shaft built up to full diameter with weld, turned on *lathe, then have a new keyway cut in it. It's unlikely that any epoxy or makeshift fix will be permanent. I wouldn't know if this is a common problem with your dryers, but you'd be wise to routinely check each machine. Keys with set screws would be more secure for this application, but not if the screw threads would be in the fiberglas material. If there is a steel, aluminum or brass hub molded into the fiberglas fan, drilling and tapping an accurate hole over the keyway should ensure that the key doesn't start wallowing out the keyway on the shaft. -- WB ......... metalworking projectswww.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html wrote in message news:8209232b-2c5a-4e2b-97a4- http://picasaweb.google.com/smartin1...hkey=Gv1sRgCMC... On Apr 2, 10:49 am, Jim Wilkins wrote: Looks like the key rolled. How badly mangled is the hub? it's a14 in. fiberglass fan the keyway on the fan seems to be in good condition This motor seems small enough that it may just be cheaper to replace it than to fix it. Richard W. Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new keyway cut on the other side of the shaft I went to the surplus site and I see how with a little modification I could get a motor much cheaper. The other type dryer motors that i have one of which burned out and cost me over three hundred has approx. a 14 in. shaft with a thread on the end what would I do about that. |
Worn keyway
On Apr 2, 11:09*pm, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:44:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new keyway cut on the other side of the shaft Can you attach one of the flanged or face-mount collars in the middle of this page to the fan and not bother with the key?http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/1149/=1a0dny -- Ned Simmons That looks like just what I need. Do I understand this, the collar locks to the shaft then I would attach the collar to fan drilling holes and using screws or even bolts. I had actually thought of trying to drill a hole through the nut to help secure it but this looks perfect. Thanks Martin |
Worn keyway
On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:58:30 -0700 (PDT),
wrote: On Apr 2, 11:09*pm, Ned Simmons wrote: On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:44:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new keyway cut on the other side of the shaft Can you attach one of the flanged or face-mount collars in the middle of this page to the fan and not bother with the key?http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/1149/=1a0dny -- Ned Simmons That looks like just what I need. Do I understand this, the collar locks to the shaft then I would attach the collar to fan drilling holes and using screws or even bolts. I had actually thought of trying to drill a hole through the nut to help secure it but this looks perfect. Thanks Martin You've got it. Since you're relying on friction between the shaft and collar to transmit torque, make sure there's no oil or grease on the shaft and ID of the collar. Grease the collar's clamping screw to maximize gripping force. If it's more convenient you can modify standard collars by drilling them yourself. -- Ned Simmons |
Worn keyway
On Apr 4, 2:22*pm, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:58:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Apr 2, 11:09*pm, Ned Simmons wrote: On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:44:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Brand new motor is over $200 how much could it cost to have a new keyway cut on the other side of the shaft Can you attach one of the flanged or face-mount collars in the middle of this page to the fan and not bother with the key?http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/1149/=1a0dny -- Ned Simmons That looks like just what I need. Do I understand this, the collar locks to the shaft then I would attach the collar to fan drilling holes and using screws or even bolts. I had actually thought of trying to drill a hole through the nut to help secure it but this looks perfect. *Thanks * Martin You've got it. Since you're relying on friction between the shaft and collar to transmit torque, make sure there's no oil or grease on the shaft and ID of the collar. Grease the collar's clamping screw to maximize gripping force. If it's more convenient you can modify standard collars by drilling them yourself. -- Ned Simmons Good idea, Ned. The slot could be filed to take the key, since its slot extends through the threads. |
Worn keyway
The Surplus Center is only one of hundreds of surplus sellers in the U.S.
I've seen quite a few appliance fractional HP motors with extended shafts over the years (longer than the motor case), like you mentioned, but I don't recall where. An alternative for the long motor shaft might be a modification of the dryer housing if you can mount separate shaft between a couple of bearings. Then an ordinary motor with a shaft coupler might eliminate the need for the special motor. The shaft collar solution Ned mentioned should work well for a blower/fan wheel load, as far as gripping the shaft and having a secure connection to the blower wheel. You will want to get the collar aligned correctly to the shaft centerline (almost perfectly perpendicular) so you don't inadvertently introduce any wobble in the blower wheel. A continuous vibration/shaking in the wheel will likely break out the fiberglas around the screws that attach the wheel to the collar. Without being able to see the actual machines, and not knowing what tools and skills you have to work with, makes speculating what repairs could/can possibly be done, mostly guesswork from a distant position.. but many motor applications can be implemented in various ways to do a particular task. With the addition of a couple of parts, or some modifiations, it's possible that one inexpensive motor could be used in different machines. The down side of obtaining new surplus parts is, that they are often in limited supply, so if you find a particular part that is especially useful, get a supply of them. FWIW, in this economic slump (or other preferred term), your public facilities may be more in demand, so having equipment in good operating condition is likely to keep happy customers returning to your business. -- WB .......... metalworking projects www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html wrote in message ... I went to the surplus site and I see how with a little modification I could get a motor much cheaper. The other type dryer motors that i have one of which burned out and cost me over three hundred has approx. a 14 in. shaft with a thread on the end what would I do about that. |
Worn keyway
On Apr 4, 5:39*pm, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
The Surplus Center is only one of hundreds of surplus sellers in the U.S. I've seen quite a few appliance fractional HP motors with extended shafts over the years (longer than the motor case), like you mentioned, but I don't recall where. An alternative for the long motor shaft might be a modification of the dryer housing if you can mount *separate shaft between a couple of bearings. Then an ordinary motor with a shaft coupler might eliminate the need for the special motor. The shaft collar solution Ned mentioned should work well for a blower/fan wheel load, as far as gripping the shaft and having a secure connection to the blower wheel. You will want to get the collar aligned correctly to the shaft centerline (almost perfectly perpendicular) so you don't inadvertently introduce any wobble in the blower wheel. A continuous vibration/shaking in the wheel will likely break out the fiberglas around the screws that attach the wheel to the collar. Without being able to see the actual machines, and not knowing what tools and skills you have to work with, makes speculating what repairs could/can possibly be done, mostly guesswork from a distant position.. but many motor applications can be implemented in various ways to do a particular task. With the addition of a couple of parts, or some modifiations, it's possible that one inexpensive motor could be used in different machines. The down side of obtaining new surplus parts is, that they are often in limited supply, so if you find a particular part that is especially useful, get a supply of them. FWIW, in this economic slump (or other preferred term), your public facilities may be more in demand, so having equipment in good operating condition is likely to keep happy customers returning to your business. -- WB ......... metalworking projectswww.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html wrote in message ... I went to the surplus site and I see how with a little modification I could get a motor much cheaper. The other type dryer motors that i have one of which burned out and cost me over three hundred has approx. a 14 in. shaft with a thread on the end what would I do about that. Any suggestions as to the best way to make sure the collar is correctly aligned. |
Worn keyway
As far as fitting a shaft collar to the shaft shown in the picture, I don't
see a good loation for a collar to mate closely like it needs to. The area where the washers are, might be the only section that isn't damaged, but I don't know if the collar an be situated at that end, or if it needs to be at the end where the rusty nuts are (but putting the collar on the threaded portion of the shaft wouldn't be very reliable, IMO). The most secure installation for a shaft collar is when the ID of the collar is fully mated with a shaft diameter (nearly full contact for 360 degrees). There isn't a full diameter anywhere on the motor shaft in the picture. The best contact anywhere on that shaft will still result in a less than perfect fitting of the collar-to-shaft. Proper alignment of the collar will most likely depend entirely on luck, patience, trial and error. Hand filing a section of key to match the shaft diameter should help if the collar can be situated where the washers are (key to fill keyway under/inside the collar). I suspect that there is more damage in the bore of the blower wheel hub. -- WB .......... metalworking projects www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html wrote in message ... On Apr 4, 5:39 pm, "Wild_Bill" wrote: The shaft collar solution Ned mentioned should work well for a blower/fan wheel load, as far as gripping the shaft and having a secure connection to the blower wheel. You will want to get the collar aligned correctly to the shaft centerline (almost perfectly perpendicular) so you don't inadvertently introduce any wobble in the blower wheel. A continuous vibration/shaking in the wheel will likely break out the fiberglas around the screws that attach the wheel to the collar. Without being able to see the actual machines, and not knowing what tools and skills you have to work with, makes speculating what repairs could/can possibly be done, mostly guesswork from a distant position.. but many motor applications can be implemented in various ways to do a particular task. With the addition of a couple of parts, or some modifiations, it's possible that one inexpensive motor could be used in different machines. -- WB ......... metalworking projectswww.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html wrote in message ... I went to the surplus site and I see how with a little modification I could get a motor much cheaper. The other type dryer motors that i have one of which burned out and cost me over three hundred has approx. a 14 in. shaft with a thread on the end what would I do about that. Any suggestions as to the best way to make sure the collar is correctly aligned. |
Worn keyway
On Apr 5, 10:10*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
As far as fitting a shaft collar to the shaft shown in the picture, I don't see a good loation for a collar to mate closely like it needs to. ... I suspect that there is more damage in the bore of the blower wheel hub. WB My suspicion also. If the key rolled it had to carve a passage through the fiberglass although it might not be visible externally. Possibly a spacer bushing drilled lengthwise for the axial collar screws would allow the fan and collar to both be located where they work best. The drive torque would pass through the screws as shear at the junctions, so they ought to be hardened socket head cap screws. The spacer could be a square block of scrap aluminum of the right thickness with a centered hole drilled for the shaft. |
Worn keyway
I've generally always gotten some level of enjoyment out of repairing stuff
just for my own use, but for a commercial application that a man derives income from, replacing the motor would very likely be the most cost effective solution. The objective as I see it would be to get the machine back in operating condition so it can be earning money, and not fail again within a short period of time (putting the guy back at square one). Anything can be repaired, and this example is no exception. The OP said four machines have this problem (or four more of 'em), so the cost of replacement motors, although significant, will eventually be recovered, and the cost is closer to couple hundred instead of almost a thousand (at over $200 per motor). The new motors will probably run reliably for quite some time. When repairing the old motors, they're still just used motors with lots of hours on them. The mangled motor shafts could be repaired fairly quickly and effortlessly with the right equipment, and the mounting interface between the shaft and blower wheel could be upgraded/improved, or maybe better-made blower wheels could be sourced. As many of the HSMs here know, having a couple of metalworking machines makes a great many things possible, and often practical.. but we can also remember when we didn't have the machining capabilities, and generally everything was much more difficult (and many times just beyond the scope of our capabilities with only limited tools). Working with just a hacksaw, file, drill and/or a Dremel or die grinder can sometimes produce satisfactory results, although progress may be slow. Relying on epoxies and other band-aid "miracle" products can often be (should be)last ditch efforts because there might not be a second chance after trying those products. Maybe it's mostly age, but I never liked to see someone bust their ass to attain poor results, yet that's what some folks are used to doing. Many large companies operate like this year after year. I've looked at some repair jobs as an opportunity to improve the assembly or machine, to make it a little better than it was (what led to the failure/wear), or at least easier to repair the next time if the original design just demanded periodic repairs. These methods continue to get more difficult to implement as products are made more cheaply, essentially throw-way products, and more frequently finding new products to be faulty as soon as they're taken out of the box. I'm beginning to dread needing to buy anything new. -- WB .......... metalworking projects www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message ... On Apr 5, 10:10 am, "Wild_Bill" wrote: As far as fitting a shaft collar to the shaft shown in the picture, I don't see a good loation for a collar to mate closely like it needs to. ... I suspect that there is more damage in the bore of the blower wheel hub. WB My suspicion also. If the key rolled it had to carve a passage through the fiberglass although it might not be visible externally. Possibly a spacer bushing drilled lengthwise for the axial collar screws would allow the fan and collar to both be located where they work best. The drive torque would pass through the screws as shear at the junctions, so they ought to be hardened socket head cap screws. The spacer could be a square block of scrap aluminum of the right thickness with a centered hole drilled for the shaft. |
Worn keyway
On Apr 7, 6:42*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
I've generally always gotten some level of enjoyment out of repairing stuff just for my own use, but for a commercial application that a man derives income from, replacing the motor would very likely be the most cost effective solution. ..... As many of the HSMs here know, having a couple of metalworking machines makes a great many things possible, and often practical.. but we can also remember when we didn't have the machining capabilities, and generally everything was much more difficult (and many times just beyond the scope of our capabilities with only limited tools). ..... Maybe it's mostly age, but I never liked to see someone bust their ass to attain poor results, yet that's what some folks are used to doing. Many large companies operate like this year after year. WB I fully agree with you but I don't maintain that laundromat. I have completely different standards for home and commercial projects. Non-critical projects are sometimes patched together by whatever cheap means are at hand, cases where I depend on the results to keep my job or maintain my car and house are done right, bearing the cost as insurance. The grey area is making a quick temporary fix to keep a production line running until the right parts arrive, or a similarly crude fix to a seldom-used test fixture that will never be redone properly later. Then it's a judgement call on whether I take too long to do it now or risk being yanked off an important project to fix it again later. In this case the OP's serious problem is merely an intellectual challenge for us. I try not to assert that a certain fix WILL work, instead only make relatively vague suggestions to widen the range of choices. Jim Wilkins |
Worn keyway
The RCM group is definitely a good place for repair-type suggestions and
recommendations, that's for sure. Sometimes the response is smack ones' self in the forehead, 'cause the suggestion was so simple and effective, kind of a "can't see the forest, for the trees" type of block. I expect that the OP/smartin has completed a repair by now, and waiting to see if the effort proves to be durable enough. -- WB .......... metalworking projects www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message ... On Apr 7, 6:42 am, "Wild_Bill" wrote: I fully agree with you but I don't maintain that laundromat. I have completely different standards for home and commercial projects. Non-critical projects are sometimes patched together by whatever cheap means are at hand, cases where I depend on the results to keep my job or maintain my car and house are done right, bearing the cost as insurance. The grey area is making a quick temporary fix to keep a production line running until the right parts arrive, or a similarly crude fix to a seldom-used test fixture that will never be redone properly later. Then it's a judgement call on whether I take too long to do it now or risk being yanked off an important project to fix it again later. In this case the OP's serious problem is merely an intellectual challenge for us. I try not to assert that a certain fix WILL work, instead only make relatively vague suggestions to widen the range of choices. Jim Wilkins |
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