The continuing saga of a miser looking for a "wonderlathe":

1) http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have a motor and lots of 1/4" tools of uncertain provenance. Would need a
chuck for the headstock and probably compound slide from this selection:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have heard good things about this. It would take care of small parts
(steel, 3/4" diameter). I am not sure how specialized and therefore
obtainable the parts are.


2) http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B1979C

The apparent cost is over double of the Taig, but it comes with a motor, a
compound, 3-jaw chuck etc. which closes the dollar gap considerably. Lower
speeds, therefore almost three times the diameter can be handled, screw
cutting, auto feed etc.

The nearest mini is $200 more. Why, oh why, the short distance between
centres?

All in all, it seems that No.2 will do everything the No.1 will and much
more for a slightly greater sum. Does this make sense?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Michael Koblic explained :
The continuing saga of a miser looking for a "wonderlathe":

1) http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have a motor and lots of 1/4" tools of uncertain provenance. Would need a
chuck for the headstock and probably compound slide from this selection:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have heard good things about this. It would take care of small parts
(steel, 3/4" diameter). I am not sure how specialized and therefore
obtainable the parts are.


2) http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B1979C

The apparent cost is over double of the Taig, but it comes with a motor, a
compound, 3-jaw chuck etc. which closes the dollar gap considerably. Lower
speeds, therefore almost three times the diameter can be handled, screw
cutting, auto feed etc.

The nearest mini is $200 more. Why, oh why, the short distance between
centres?

All in all, it seems that No.2 will do everything the No.1 will and much more
for a slightly greater sum. Does this make sense?

#3? http://lathemaster.com/LATHEMASTER8x14Lathe.htm

Wayne D.

I recently bought a new 7x12 Clarke (Sieg) minilathe, because it was
available locally (no shipping) and it was a reasonable price: $380US plus
local sales tax 6%.

The differences you may find by looking at various vendors, is that certain
features vary, and the number of included accessories vary.
Other than these differences, almost all 7x10 to 7x14 models will
essentially be the same except for the length of the bed/between centers
dimension (and paint colors).

The Busy Bee B1979C shows a 2 year warranty. Vendor support may be a
determining factor due to the location of the buyer.

Some models may have all plastic gears. On one model I saw, the internal
headstock gear was steel/iron but the external change gears were plastic.
Some accessory packages include the steady and traveling rests and a
faceplate, or an additional chuck, so prices will vary.

The Taig accessories are fairly expensive, and as accessories go, the user
will generally want or need another, and another.

Accessories for the minilathes are somewhat more commonly available, and
usually more generic.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
The continuing saga of a miser looking for a "wonderlathe":

1)
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have a motor and lots of 1/4" tools of uncertain provenance. Would need
a chuck for the headstock and probably compound slide from this selection:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have heard good things about this. It would take care of small parts
(steel, 3/4" diameter). I am not sure how specialized and therefore
obtainable the parts are.


2) http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B1979C

The apparent cost is over double of the Taig, but it comes with a motor, a
compound, 3-jaw chuck etc. which closes the dollar gap considerably. Lower
speeds, therefore almost three times the diameter can be handled, screw
cutting, auto feed etc.

The nearest mini is $200 more. Why, oh why, the short distance between
centres?

All in all, it seems that No.2 will do everything the No.1 will and much
more for a slightly greater sum. Does this make sense?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Wayne wrote:
#3? http://lathemaster.com/LATHEMASTER8x14Lathe.htm

At $1390 before it even crossess the border it is almost 2.5 times the price
of No.2. Sadly, not an option...

On 2008-12-17, Michael Koblic wrote:
The continuing saga of a miser looking for a "wonderlathe":

1) http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have a motor and lots of 1/4" tools of uncertain provenance. Would need a
chuck for the headstock and probably compound slide from this selection:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

Get the metalworking version, and the accessories to add
woodworking capabilities. The price difference between the two compared
to the cost of the cross-slide alone says this -- *if* you want the
Taig.

I have heard good things about this. It would take care of small parts
(steel, 3/4" diameter).

Yes -- but it would not single-point threads (that is, cut with a
properly shaped tool bit to make threads). Otherwise, it is a nice
*small* lathe.

I am not sure how specialized and therefore
obtainable the parts are.

Most of the parts are rather specialized. The chucks are
interchangeable with Sherlines, FWIW. The 4-jaw chuck which is
available for the metalworking version is very good for the price.

I don't see the three-jaw chuck with the soft jaws which used to
be part of the setup.


2) http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B1979C

The apparent cost is over double of the Taig, but it comes with a motor, a
compound, 3-jaw chuck etc. which closes the dollar gap considerably. Lower
speeds, therefore almost three times the diameter can be handled, screw
cutting, auto feed etc.

Much more swing over the bed. 7" for this, vs 4-1/2" for the
Taig. The riser blocks can increase the swing of the Taig, but at the
cost of rigidity.

It can single-point threads, but the slowest spindle speed is a
bit fast for threading up to a shoulder.

If it has a threading dial (not clear there) it will only work
with one of the two series of threads -- either only for the metric, or
only for the inch threads.

There is no *list* of what threads it cuts, so we don't know
whether any particularly useful ones are left out.

I would like to see a much more detailed list of what it has and
what it will do.

The nearest mini is $200 more. Why, oh why, the short distance between
centres?

About the same as the Taig, FWIW.

All in all, it seems that No.2 will do everything the No.1 will and much
more for a slightly greater sum. Does this make sense?

How will it do for the woodwork? I think that the top speeds
are a bit slow for small diameter woodwork. The Taig can reach
frightening speeds which would be very good for woodwork.

It almost seems that you should consider both -- one for you
with metal, and one for your wife for wood. (And get her dust masks,
too, since hardwood dusts are generally bad things to breathe.

Actually -- both are a bit too small in my opinion for anything
that *I* would be doing these days. If you consider them as simply
first (learning) steps, that could be different.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-12-17, Wayne wrote:
Michael Koblic explained :

[ ... ]

All in all, it seems that No.2 will do everything the No.1 will and much more
for a slightly greater sum. Does this make sense?

#3? http://lathemaster.com/LATHEMASTER8x14Lathe.htm

Much nicer -- for the metalworking. Not any better for the
woodworking. Really you need two different tools I think.

And the motor horsepower is much more reasonable, too.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I recently bought a new 7x12 Clarke (Sieg) minilathe, because it was
available locally (no shipping) and it was a reasonable price: $383US plus
local sales tax 6%.

The differences you may find by looking at various vendors, is that certain
features may vary slightly, and the number of included accessories vary.
Other than these differences, almost all 7x10 to 7x14 models will
essentially be the same except for the length of the bed/between centers
dimension (and paint colors).

The Busy Bee B1979C shows a 2 year warranty. Vendor support may be a
determining factor due to the location of the buyer.

Some 7x models may have all plastic gears. On one model I saw, the internal
headstock gear was "metal" (possibly die-cast zinc alloy) but the external
change gears were plastic.
Little Machineshop sells steel gears for many/all of the 7x models.

Some accessory packages include the steady and traveling rests and a
faceplate, or an additional chuck, so be aware of those differences.

The Taig accessories are fairly expensive, and as accessories go, the user
will generally want or need another, and another.

Accessories for the minilathes are somewhat more commonly available, and
usually more generic.
Parts and accessories for the 7x models are available from numerous sources,
although the prices vary considerably for certain items.

http://www.mini-lathe.com/
http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm
http://www.cartertools.com/jose02.html
http://littlemachineshop.com/Products/product_new.php

Something I discovered while looking at minilathe accessories is that a MT3
to 3C adapter and drawtubes are available for using 3C collets with the 7x
models instead of using Morse Taper 3 collets.
These adapters are for use in any machine that has a MT3 spindle with a 3/4"
(.750") thru hole. This includes 7x models, South Bend and the 9x20 series
lathes.
The 3C collets are self-releasing, so they don't need to be driven/tapped
out like the locking MT collets do.
Additionally, the 3C collets allow the material to pass thru the collet,
which MT collets don't. This allows longer lengths of material to be fed
thru the headstock.

There are several suppliers of 3C collets in round, hex and square sizes.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
The continuing saga of a miser looking for a "wonderlathe":

1)
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have a motor and lots of 1/4" tools of uncertain provenance. Would need
a chuck for the headstock and probably compound slide from this selection:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have heard good things about this. It would take care of small parts
(steel, 3/4" diameter). I am not sure how specialized and therefore
obtainable the parts are.


2) http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B1979C

The apparent cost is over double of the Taig, but it comes with a motor, a
compound, 3-jaw chuck etc. which closes the dollar gap considerably. Lower
speeds, therefore almost three times the diameter can be handled, screw
cutting, auto feed etc.

The nearest mini is $200 more. Why, oh why, the short distance between
centres?

All in all, it seems that No.2 will do everything the No.1 will and much
more for a slightly greater sum. Does this make sense?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Michael
For a look at what the Taig is capable of, at least in the hands of a genius
like John Bentley, go to his site he
http://www.jrbentley.com/

see also the mods he made to a BusyBee lathe...just beautiful!

Peter M



"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
The continuing saga of a miser looking for a "wonderlathe":

1)
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have a motor and lots of 1/4" tools of uncertain provenance. Would need
a chuck for the headstock and probably compound slide from this selection:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have heard good things about this. It would take care of small parts
(steel, 3/4" diameter). I am not sure how specialized and therefore
obtainable the parts are.


2) http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B1979C

The apparent cost is over double of the Taig, but it comes with a motor, a
compound, 3-jaw chuck etc. which closes the dollar gap considerably. Lower
speeds, therefore almost three times the diameter can be handled, screw
cutting, auto feed etc.

The nearest mini is $200 more. Why, oh why, the short distance between
centres?

All in all, it seems that No.2 will do everything the No.1 will and much
more for a slightly greater sum. Does this make sense?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:01:24 -0500, the infamous "Wild_Bill"
scrawled the following:

I recently bought a new 7x12 Clarke (Sieg) minilathe, because it was
available locally (no shipping) and it was a reasonable price: $383US plus
local sales tax 6%.

That's an excellent price, WB.


The Taig accessories are fairly expensive, and as accessories go, the user
will generally want or need another, and another.

Taig is (over)charging folks for their "famous" name.


Accessories for the minilathes are somewhat more commonly available, and
usually more generic.
Parts and accessories for the 7x models are available from numerous sources,
although the prices vary considerably for certain items.

http://www.mini-lathe.com/

Great site.


http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm

His is an EXTREMELY interesting work history, isn't it?


http://www.cartertools.com/jose02.html
http://littlemachineshop.com/Products/product_new.php

Something I discovered while looking at minilathe accessories is that a MT3
to 3C adapter and drawtubes are available for using 3C collets with the 7x
models instead of using Morse Taper 3 collets.
These adapters are for use in any machine that has a MT3 spindle with a 3/4"
(.750") thru hole. This includes 7x models, South Bend and the 9x20 series
lathes.
The 3C collets are self-releasing, so they don't need to be driven/tapped
out like the locking MT collets do.
Additionally, the 3C collets allow the material to pass thru the collet,
which MT collets don't. This allows longer lengths of material to be fed
thru the headstock.

There are several suppliers of 3C collets in round, hex and square sizes.

Thanks for an interesting post. I'm still looking for a mini-mill,
then a mini-lathe.

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

Peter Merriam wrote:
Michael
For a look at what the Taig is capable of, at least in the hands of a
genius like John Bentley, go to his site he
http://www.jrbentley.com/

see also the mods he made to a BusyBee lathe...just beautiful!


I had a look. Wow!
I only wish there was more text in the Craftex section: I did not always
appreciate what he did.
What are the odds you would find a guy with *both* machines I am interested
in? He does not seem to have anything bad to say about either of them.
Thanks.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Wild_Bill wrote:
I recently bought a new 7x12 Clarke (Sieg) minilathe, because it was
available locally (no shipping) and it was a reasonable price: $380US
plus local sales tax 6%.

The differences you may find by looking at various vendors, is that
certain features vary, and the number of included accessories vary.
Other than these differences, almost all 7x10 to 7x14 models will
essentially be the same except for the length of the bed/between
centers dimension (and paint colors).

The Busy Bee B1979C shows a 2 year warranty. Vendor support may be a
determining factor due to the location of the buyer.

Some models may have all plastic gears. On one model I saw, the
internal headstock gear was steel/iron but the external change gears
were plastic. Some accessory packages include the steady and
traveling rests and a faceplate, or an additional chuck, so prices
will vary.
The Taig accessories are fairly expensive, and as accessories go, the
user will generally want or need another, and another.

Accessories for the minilathes are somewhat more commonly available,
and usually more generic.


Thanks. That is what I kind of figured. If I was in the market for a mini
lathe and money was no object there are better ones (IMHO) available at just
under double the price of the Craftex in Canada. I did consider importing
one briefly, but the shipping, taxes, "brokerage fees" and sucky Cdn$ as
well as lack of effective after-sales care and warranty make it
unattractive.

I was only looking at the Taig because of the very low base price of $275. I
suspect, however, that one should splash out on a DC motor to get a better
speed control. That and all the facts you mention about the accessories kind
of close the gap on the Craftex.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Get the metalworking version, and the accessories to add
woodworking capabilities. The price difference between the two
compared to the cost of the cross-slide alone says this -- *if* you
want the Taig.

Due to some unfortunate circumstances the wood-working part has been
post-poned indefinitely.
I guess that is the question: Do I want the Taig? It seemed like the only
way to start turning something for under $400.

I don't see the three-jaw chuck with the soft jaws which used to
be part of the setup.

I had a look at the Taig web site and their combo's are different from the
Lee Valley. E.g. two out of three did not include the tailstock!

There is no *list* of what threads it cuts, so we don't know
whether any particularly useful ones are left out.

I would like to see a much more detailed list of what it has and
what it will do.

See, this is the sort of thing I would not know to look for...


The nearest mini is $200 more. Why, oh why, the short distance
between centres?

About the same as the Taig, FWIW.

Yes. Initially I rejected the Craftex out of hand because of it but as the
prices came closer I re-considered.

It is just another exercise in looking at various options.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Wild_Bill wrote:
Something I discovered while looking at minilathe accessories is that
a MT3 to 3C adapter and drawtubes are available for using 3C collets
with the 7x models instead of using Morse Taper 3 collets.
These adapters are for use in any machine that has a MT3 spindle with
a 3/4" (.750") thru hole. This includes 7x models, South Bend and the
9x20 series lathes.
The 3C collets are self-releasing, so they don't need to be
driven/tapped out like the locking MT collets do.
Additionally, the 3C collets allow the material to pass thru the
collet, which MT collets don't. This allows longer lengths of
material to be fed thru the headstock.

OTOH am I correct to assume that I could use my MT3 collet set from my
mini-mill?

Yes, the 3MT collets that fit your mill will also fit the mini lathe MT3
spindles.
The length of the spindles will probably be different, so you will probably
need to make a different drawbar for a mini lathe spindle. Fortunately, the
drawbar is fairly simple to make with all-thread rod, just pick up a piece
of it that matches the thread in your collets, and a couple of nuts.

Instead of just using a washer on the left end of the mini lathe spindle,
you might want to consider a stepped bushing to keep the drawbar (threaded
rod) centered while tightening the nut (the bushing is easily made on the
lathe with just a chuck for workholding).

An example of the bushing can be seen in the lower half of this page
http://www.kwagmire.com/shop/lathe/9...cessories.html

You see now, it gets easier when you start buying more machines.. there are
numerous pieces that will be of use on the next machine!
Like those wrenches and hex/allen wrenches.

I'm considering getting the 3C adapters since the 7x12 spindle is the same
as my 9x20 spindle (well, the length is probably different), even though I
have a set of MT3 collets.
I don't particularly like thumping the drawbar to release MT collets, even
though these aren't ultra-high precision machines, hammer hits are delivered
to the bearings.
The additional bonus is that stock can pass thru the 3C collets, so the
depth of the workpiece in the collet isn't limited, like with the Morse
collets.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
Wild_Bill wrote:
Something I discovered while looking at minilathe accessories is that
a MT3 to 3C adapter and drawtubes are available for using 3C collets
with the 7x models instead of using Morse Taper 3 collets.
These adapters are for use in any machine that has a MT3 spindle with
a 3/4" (.750") thru hole. This includes 7x models, South Bend and the
9x20 series lathes.
The 3C collets are self-releasing, so they don't need to be
driven/tapped out like the locking MT collets do.
Additionally, the 3C collets allow the material to pass thru the
collet, which MT collets don't. This allows longer lengths of
material to be fed thru the headstock.

OTOH am I correct to assume that I could use my MT3 collet set from my
mini-mill?

On 2008-12-17, Peter Merriam wrote:
Michael
For a look at what the Taig is capable of, at least in the hands of a genius
like John Bentley, go to his site he
http://www.jrbentley.com/

In particular, follow the link to Nick Carter's page. He has a
*lot* of information specific to the Taig. (It is also called the
Peatol in the UK, and I got mine from a hamfest with no name on it quite
a few years ago.

In particular, he has a link to a site offering a thread
turning attachment for the Taig. (He used to post here regularly,
FWIW.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Yeah, the under-$400 sticker price was easier to justify than the
almost-or-over-$500 prices elsewhere, and eliminating shipping charges made
it even easier.

Spending $500 or more for the 7x didn't suit me, since I only paid $600
delivered IIRC, for my 9x20 (bought new also, but that was maybe 7 years
ago). The next machine after that was $700 for a used 12x20 3in1.
So having those 2 prices to compare to, a $500+ mini seemed a bit out of
line.

I guess you'll need to keep your eyes peeled for a deal, although I think
you'd be better off considering any sizes of machines that are affordable,
not just minis.
If you can get a bigger machine, the space needed for a bigger machine will
magically appear.
WTF, you can wash the dishes in the shower, or better yet, use paper (but be
damned sure to recycle).
Then put the microwave oven beside the couch where it belongs, and half of
your kitchen is already free space.

Glad you found something interesting.
BTW, dumb looks are still free.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:01:24 -0500, the infamous "Wild_Bill"
scrawled the following:

I recently bought a new 7x12 Clarke (Sieg) minilathe, because it was
available locally (no shipping) and it was a reasonable price: $383US plus
local sales tax 6%.

That's an excellent price, WB.


The Taig accessories are fairly expensive, and as accessories go, the user
will generally want or need another, and another.

Taig is (over)charging folks for their "famous" name.


Accessories for the minilathes are somewhat more commonly available, and
usually more generic.
Parts and accessories for the 7x models are available from numerous
sources,
although the prices vary considerably for certain items.

http://www.mini-lathe.com/

Great site.


http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm

His is an EXTREMELY interesting work history, isn't it?


http://www.cartertools.com/jose02.html
http://littlemachineshop.com/Products/product_new.php

Something I discovered while looking at minilathe accessories is that a
MT3
to 3C adapter and drawtubes are available for using 3C collets with the 7x
models instead of using Morse Taper 3 collets.
These adapters are for use in any machine that has a MT3 spindle with a
3/4"
(.750") thru hole. This includes 7x models, South Bend and the 9x20 series
lathes.
The 3C collets are self-releasing, so they don't need to be driven/tapped
out like the locking MT collets do.
Additionally, the 3C collets allow the material to pass thru the collet,
which MT collets don't. This allows longer lengths of material to be fed
thru the headstock.

There are several suppliers of 3C collets in round, hex and square sizes.

Thanks for an interesting post. I'm still looking for a mini-mill,
then a mini-lathe.

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

On 2008-12-17, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:01:24 -0500, the infamous "Wild_Bill"
scrawled the following:

[ ... ]

The Taig accessories are fairly expensive, and as accessories go, the user
will generally want or need another, and another.

Taig is (over)charging folks for their "famous" name.

If you want to see "overcharging for the famous name", compare
the Taig's prices to the Sherline's prices. They are similar lathes,
and I prefer the Taig to the Sherline, FWIW.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 18 Dec 2008 03:30:21 GMT, the infamous "DoN. Nichols"
scrawled the following:

On 2008-12-17, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:01:24 -0500, the infamous "Wild_Bill"
scrawled the following:

[ ... ]

The Taig accessories are fairly expensive, and as accessories go, the user
will generally want or need another, and another.

Taig is (over)charging folks for their "famous" name.

If you want to see "overcharging for the famous name", compare
the Taig's prices to the Sherline's prices. They are similar lathes,
and I prefer the Taig to the Sherline, FWIW.

Yes, Sherline is full of itself, too.

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

On 2008-12-17, Michael Koblic wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

Get the metalworking version, and the accessories to add
woodworking capabilities. The price difference between the two
compared to the cost of the cross-slide alone says this -- *if* you
want the Taig.

Due to some unfortunate circumstances the wood-working part has been
post-poned indefinitely.

Oh!

I guess that is the question: Do I want the Taig? It seemed like the only
way to start turning something for under $400.

The question is -- do you want to be able to cut threads? If
not, then it could certainly do what you need for small things. (How
big a circle do you need to handle to make your solar powered
hourglasses. :-)

Another thing about the Taig is that the longitudinal finish
will be purely dependent on the smoothness of your turning the crank on
the carriage. There is no power feed -- in either direction.

I don't see the three-jaw chuck with the soft jaws which used to
be part of the setup.

I had a look at the Taig web site and their combo's are different from the
Lee Valley. E.g. two out of three did not include the tailstock!

O.K. It all depends on how much you plan to turn things which
are about four times longer than their diameter. For that (or longer)
you will need the tailstock.

You'll also find it very useful for drilling the initial central
hole before boring it to larger diameters. IIRC, the tailstock chuck
will hold 1/2" drill bits -- but the motor may have a bit of struggle
doing it all in a single pass in steel.

There is no *list* of what threads it cuts, so we don't know
whether any particularly useful ones are left out.

I would like to see a much more detailed list of what it has and
what it will do.

See, this is the sort of thing I would not know to look for...

This is the sort of reason why people suggest that you sign up
for a metalworking class at a nearby school (if one is available) so you
will learn what to expect from the tools. This will also give you
access to larger tools for some of your own projects.

The nearest mini is $200 more. Why, oh why, the short distance
between centres?

About the same as the Taig, FWIW.

Yes. Initially I rejected the Craftex out of hand because of it but as the
prices came closer I re-considered.

It is just another exercise in looking at various options.

Of course, my own preference is for larger old machines, but then
I know how to check them out and how to repair them if needed.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-12-17, Michael Koblic wrote:
Wild_Bill wrote:
Something I discovered while looking at minilathe accessories is that
a MT3 to 3C adapter and drawtubes are available for using 3C collets
with the 7x models instead of using Morse Taper 3 collets.
These adapters are for use in any machine that has a MT3 spindle with
a 3/4" (.750") thru hole. This includes 7x models, South Bend and the
9x20 series lathes.
The 3C collets are self-releasing, so they don't need to be
driven/tapped out like the locking MT collets do.
Additionally, the 3C collets allow the material to pass thru the
collet, which MT collets don't. This allows longer lengths of
material to be fed thru the headstock.

OTOH am I correct to assume that I could use my MT3 collet set from my
mini-mill?

Yes -- though you might need to make a drawbar of the right
length for the lathe's spindle. It is likely to be longer than that on
the mill (or at least different).

Check the thread pitch on the drawbar for the mill, and see
whether it is in the lathe's list of threads.

And -- what you *won't* have that the 3C with the adaptor would
give you is the ability to pass long stock through the headstock
spindle, turn a part, part it off, advance the stock, and repeat. The
MT3 collets use a solid drawbar, not a hollow one as the 3Cs (and 5Cs)
use.

The MT3 collets are supplied only in a few sizes -- to fit the
common shanks of end mills. The 3C and 5C collet sets are available in
1/32" steps to handle almost everything you are likely to hold. (Though
1/16" steps are more common, since they are cheaper.)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:

The question is -- do you want to be able to cut threads? If
not, then it could certainly do what you need for small things. (How
big a circle do you need to handle to make your solar powered
hourglasses. :-)

I am pretty much looking at it as two distinctly separate jobs:

1) The dial faces. Those will need something big if I want to expand in the
future. The biggest one now is 4.5" so a mini should be able to face it and
edge it. OTOH I have a nice 9" piece sitting in a drawer waiting for
attention. That one clearly is beyond the mini. OTOH (2) the faces do not
need a tailstock - headstock turning facility should be sufficient, which
brings us back to rotary tables etc.

2) The support structure and the gnomons. These are much smaller and a mini
or a Taig should be adequate. The maximum length is not an issue until the
dial diameter gets past 12" - pretty unlikely.

At this point I see no need to cut threads. However, as these things often
work out, I will want to cut one the moment I buy the Taig :-)

O.K. It all depends on how much you plan to turn things which
are about four times longer than their diameter. For that (or longer)
you will need the tailstock.

For the gnomons pretty essential

You'll also find it very useful for drilling the initial central
hole before boring it to larger diameters. IIRC, the tailstock chuck
will hold 1/2" drill bits -- but the motor may have a bit of struggle
doing it all in a single pass in steel.

I thought the Taig only did 1/4".

There is no *list* of what threads it cuts, so we don't know
whether any particularly useful ones are left out.

I would like to see a much more detailed list of what it has and
what it will do.

See, this is the sort of thing I would not know to look for...

This is the sort of reason why people suggest that you sign up
for a metalworking class at a nearby school (if one is available) so
you will learn what to expect from the tools. This will also give you
access to larger tools for some of your own projects.

It is a good suggestion in principle. There may be one in the New Year. Now,
to spend $465 on the course or a Mini-lathe :-)?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Dec 19, 9:39*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
The question is -- do you want to be able to cut threads? *If
not, then it could certainly do what you need for small things. *(How
big a circle do you need to handle to make your solar powered
hourglasses. :-)

I am pretty much looking at it as two distinctly separate jobs:

1) The dial faces. Those will need something big if I want to expand in the
future. The biggest one now is 4.5" so a mini should be able to face it and
edge it. OTOH I have a nice 9" piece sitting in a drawer waiting for
attention. ....

At this point I see no need to cut threads. However, as these things often
work out, I will want to cut one the moment I buy the Taig :-)
...
O.K. *It all depends on how much you plan to turn things which
are about four times longer than their diameter. *For that (or longer)
you will need the tailstock.

For the gnomons pretty essential ...

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I believe you're ready for this suggestion now:

A well-worn old industrial lathe just might do everything you need, if
you can find a working one cheap enough. For example:
http://nh.craigslist.org/tls/941489353.html

They aren't worth much if the bed is badly worn or a valuable feature
like threading doesn't work, but you don't seem to need high precision
or custom threads.

A leather belt drive, threaded spindle and single phase motor decrease
it's usefulness for a business but not so much for a home shop.

A problem is finding a cheap one that isn't hopelessly gonzo unless
you buy three $500 factory repair parts. That can be an issue with
South Bend, for instance. Mine has several non-standard and home made
replacement parts, some hacked out by the trade school students who
(ab)used it before me.

I think you've rehearsed your spiel on us enough to recite it in
machinists' terms to the seller, who hopefully understands the lathe's
condition and would know if it would serve your needs.

Good Luck
Jim Wilkins

On 2008-12-20, Michael Koblic wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

The question is -- do you want to be able to cut threads? If
not, then it could certainly do what you need for small things. (How
big a circle do you need to handle to make your solar powered
hourglasses. :-)

I am pretty much looking at it as two distinctly separate jobs:

In which case you probably will eventually want two different
machines -- one set up for each job.

1) The dial faces. Those will need something big if I want to expand in the
future. The biggest one now is 4.5" so a mini should be able to face it and
edge it.

Even the Taig should be able to do that with the riser blocks.

OTOH I have a nice 9" piece sitting in a drawer waiting for
attention. That one clearly is beyond the mini. OTOH (2) the faces do not
need a tailstock - headstock turning facility should be sufficient, which
brings us back to rotary tables etc.

That -- or the Taig with perhaps even *two* riser blocks? Not
very rigid, but probably sufficient for edging the face. I would have
to check whether two blocks stacked up would give you sufficient center
height to turn a 9" face.

2) The support structure and the gnomons. These are much smaller and a mini
or a Taig should be adequate. The maximum length is not an issue until the
dial diameter gets past 12" - pretty unlikely.

O.K. I presume that you would like to make the gnomons tapered?
For that, you do what work is needed on a cylindrical basis (probably
between centers) and then shift to between centers with an offset on the
tailstock so you can produce a nice smooth taper.

At this point I see no need to cut threads. However, as these things often
work out, I will want to cut one the moment I buy the Taig :-)

Hmm ... part of that cylindrical work on the gnomon might be to
turn a shoulder, and then thread up to the shoulder so the gnomon could
screw directly into whatever it mounts to -- as long as the gnomon
should be perpendicular to the mounting point. That saves you from
having to stock screws and work at hiding them in the assembled sundial.

O.K. It all depends on how much you plan to turn things which
are about four times longer than their diameter. For that (or longer)
you will need the tailstock.

For the gnomons pretty essential

Between centers for sure then.

You'll also find it very useful for drilling the initial central
hole before boring it to larger diameters. IIRC, the tailstock chuck
will hold 1/2" drill bits -- but the motor may have a bit of struggle
doing it all in a single pass in steel.

I thought the Taig only did 1/4".

I just went down and verified. *My* (rather old) Taig has a
Jacobs 1/2" capacity chuck which screws onto an external thread on the
tailstock ram. IIRC, it also screws onto an arbor to allow you to use
it powered in the headstock as well.

There is no *list* of what threads it cuts, so we don't know
whether any particularly useful ones are left out.

I would like to see a much more detailed list of what it has and
what it will do.

See, this is the sort of thing I would not know to look for...

This is the sort of reason why people suggest that you sign up
for a metalworking class at a nearby school (if one is available) so
you will learn what to expect from the tools. This will also give you
access to larger tools for some of your own projects.

It is a good suggestion in principle. There may be one in the New Year. Now,
to spend $465 on the course or a Mini-lathe :-)?

That can be a problem, too. The Mini-lathe or the Taig are low
enough power so you can afford to make mistakes without producing
serious catastrophes. A 12" or 13" lathe is a different matter, let
alone larger ones. For *those* the class first would be a *very* good
idea. And you *will* learn things from the class even with the smaller
machines. (Granted, I never took such a class -- but I learned (as an
Electronics Technician) from some good machinists at work, and as a
result was one of the few technicians allowed to use the machine tools
in the building.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Jim Wilkins wrote:

I believe you're ready for this suggestion now:

A well-worn old industrial lathe just might do everything you need, if
you can find a working one cheap enough. For example:
http://nh.craigslist.org/tls/941489353.html

They aren't worth much if the bed is badly worn or a valuable feature
like threading doesn't work, but you don't seem to need high precision
or custom threads.

A leather belt drive, threaded spindle and single phase motor decrease
it's usefulness for a business but not so much for a home shop.

A problem is finding a cheap one that isn't hopelessly gonzo unless
you buy three $500 factory repair parts. That can be an issue with
South Bend, for instance. Mine has several non-standard and home made
replacement parts, some hacked out by the trade school students who
(ab)used it before me.

I think you've rehearsed your spiel on us enough to recite it in
machinists' terms to the seller, who hopefully understands the lathe's
condition and would know if it would serve your needs.


I have been ready for some time :-)
I monitor Craig's List daily within a reasonable radius - transport of such
equipment could also become an issue as well as all those others you
mention. I also monitor the local auction weekly. So far things have not
panned out. Small community and all that.
I have printed out a copy of an excellent treatise on assessing a
second-hand lathe which I propose to memorize next time I go to inspect one.
Meanwhile, however, I am trying to keep my eyes and mind open for all sorts
of options.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to go to Vancouver recently. If and
when I finally get to go, I shall do some homework on their Craig's list. I
will also be able to drop into some important shops. If nothing else I
should be able to handle things there.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

DoN. Nichols wrote:

I am pretty much looking at it as two distinctly separate jobs:

In which case you probably will eventually want two different
machines -- one set up for each job.

I have two pillow blocks and a large pulley and 1" shaft ready for one of
them :-)
1) The dial faces. Those will need something big if I want to expand
in the future. The biggest one now is 4.5" so a mini should be able
to face it and edge it.

Even the Taig should be able to do that with the riser blocks.

snip

That -- or the Taig with perhaps even *two* riser blocks? Not
very rigid, but probably sufficient for edging the face. I would have
to check whether two blocks stacked up would give you sufficient
center height to turn a 9" face.

You see no other issues except rigidity? According to Lee Valley a pair of
risers (head and tail) will increase the swing by 2", so I make it total
81/2" with two pairs (but only headstock needed for my prurpose). How about
speed? The taig in the basic configuration only goes down to 525 rpm with an
AC motor (1725 rpm). I have thought that a DC motor would be the thing but
that raises the price even further and the mini becomes even more
attractive.

O.K. I presume that you would like to make the gnomons tapered?
For that, you do what work is needed on a cylindrical basis (probably
between centers) and then shift to between centers with an offset on
the tailstock so you can produce a nice smooth taper.

Tapered or different patterns.

At this point I see no need to cut threads. However, as these things
often work out, I will want to cut one the moment I buy the Taig :-)

Hmm ... part of that cylindrical work on the gnomon might be to
turn a shoulder, and then thread up to the shoulder so the gnomon
could screw directly into whatever it mounts to -- as long as the
gnomon should be perpendicular to the mounting point. That saves you
from having to stock screws and work at hiding them in the assembled
sundial.

Absolutely. I have done one like that so far using a die to cut the thread.
Is that not quicker to do than on a lathe?

O.K. It all depends on how much you plan to turn things which
are about four times longer than their diameter. For that (or
longer) you will need the tailstock.

For the gnomons pretty essential

Between centers for sure then.

You'll also find it very useful for drilling the initial central
hole before boring it to larger diameters. IIRC, the tailstock
chuck will hold 1/2" drill bits -- but the motor may have a bit of
struggle doing it all in a single pass in steel.

I thought the Taig only did 1/4".

I just went down and verified. *My* (rather old) Taig has a
Jacobs 1/2" capacity chuck which screws onto an external thread on the
tailstock ram. IIRC, it also screws onto an arbor to allow you to use
it powered in the headstock as well.

One of the reasons I am hesitant about the Taig. The descriptions from
various sources are rather confusing. Lee Valley sell 1/4" chuck to go on
the 3/8"-24 tailstock.

That can be a problem, too. The Mini-lathe or the Taig are low
enough power so you can afford to make mistakes without producing
serious catastrophes. A 12" or 13" lathe is a different matter, let
alone larger ones. For *those* the class first would be a *very* good
idea. And you *will* learn things from the class even with the
smaller machines. (Granted, I never took such a class -- but I
learned (as an Electronics Technician) from some good machinists at
work, and as a result was one of the few technicians allowed to use
the machine tools in the building.

No argument! Such course would be an excellent idea, which is why I have my
name on the list. But it becomes a matter of allocation of resources. Then
there is a matter of my predisposition to learn things by myself. Many
skills which were supposedly taught to me over the years were learned by the
time honoured method of "see one, do one, teach one". I still have
nightmares about some of the stuff one did in one's youth through arogance,
ignorance, stupidity and total lack of guidance and supervision. But that is
no excuse now, one should have gained the wisdom of age. Fat chance...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Dec 20, 2:35*am, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
A well-worn old industrial lathe.....

I have been ready for some time :-)
I monitor Craig's List daily within a reasonable radius - transport of such
equipment could also become an issue as well as all those others you
mention. ...

A flat-bed auto wrecker works pretty well. The dealer I bought my
lathe from is an industrial rigger and that's what he delivered it on,
tied down securely. He slid it down the bed into my garage, just
inside the door, and it has stayed there. Doesn't matter, the old car
behind it on jackstands isn't going anywhere.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to go to Vancouver recently.... I
will also be able to drop into some important shops.
Michael Koblic,

If you buy old machines it's very helpful to know all the second-hand
dealers in your area. I've figured out mileage-efficient loops to
visit them a few times a year, or whenever I have business in that
area. I keep some cardboard and rubber-backed rugs in the CRV to
protect its interior from greasy old machine parts, and installed the
optional rear child seat tiedowns in the roof. That particular vehicle
has a somewhat fragile plastic folding table over the spare tire well
(which is a storage tub for wet stuff, ie the kitchen sink) so I
covered the hatch area floor with plywood.

Try to find an old Starrett or Brown & Sharpe catalog so you'll know
what all those mysterious old gadgets are and how they can solve your
problems. With CAD/CAM and DROs the old layout and measuring tools are
obsolete, except for home shops.

Jim Wilkins

On Dec 16, 6:37*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
The continuing saga of a miser looking for a "wonderlathe":

1)http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have a motor and lots of 1/4" tools of uncertain provenance. Would need a
chuck for the headstock and probably compound slide from this selection:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...330,50260&ap=1

I have heard good things about this. It would take care of small parts
(steel, 3/4" diameter). I am not sure how specialized and therefore
obtainable the parts are.

2)http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B1979C

The apparent cost is over double of the Taig, but it comes with a motor, a
compound, 3-jaw chuck etc. which closes the dollar gap considerably. Lower
speeds, therefore almost three times the diameter can be handled, screw
cutting, auto feed etc.

The nearest mini is $200 more. Why, oh why, the short distance between
centres?

All in all, it seems that No.2 will do everything the No.1 will and much
more for a slightly greater sum. Does this make sense?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Actually I would buy the B2227L from BusyBee, I know its morethan you
want to spend, but would probably last you a lot longer. For a small
lathe its very beefy. Much more so than the minilathe.

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B2227L

Here's a thread about it on cnczone.com

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29399

I started on a mini-lathe, and its fine, but eventually wound up
buying a 12 x 36 lathe for the garage. I might still buy one of these
for my basement workshop, even though I don't need another lathe.

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:37:26 -0800, Michael Koblic wrote:

The continuing saga of a miser looking for a "wonderlathe":


or on Victoria's Craig's List is this:

http://victoria.en.craigslist.ca/tls/907663955.html

NOT for a miser, but it will last forever! and still sell on your passing
to enrich your estate!

Mike in Burns Lake

On 2008-12-20, Michael Koblic wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

I am pretty much looking at it as two distinctly separate jobs:

In which case you probably will eventually want two different
machines -- one set up for each job.

I have two pillow blocks and a large pulley and 1" shaft ready for one of
them :-)

:-)

[ ... ]

That -- or the Taig with perhaps even *two* riser blocks? Not
very rigid, but probably sufficient for edging the face. I would have
to check whether two blocks stacked up would give you sufficient
center height to turn a 9" face.

You see no other issues except rigidity?

Hmm ... thinking about it -- you would need to make an L-shaped
mount for the toolpost to get it far enough out to pass in front of the
workpiece at center height. But *that* is something which you should be
able to make using your mini-mill.

According to Lee Valley a pair of
risers (head and tail) will increase the swing by 2", so I make it total
81/2" with two pairs (but only headstock needed for my prurpose). How about
speed?

Speed would depend on the workpiece material used. Steel would
need rather slow speeds at 8 1/2" diameter. Let's see -- that works out
to 1168 SFM at the maximum of 8 1/2". O.K. For aluminum, you can
handle it even with HSS, and for brass you would probably want a very
sharp carbide, or PCD (Poly Crystalline Diamond), which is not as
expensive as you might initially expect. :-)

The taig in the basic configuration only goes down to 525 rpm with an
AC motor (1725 rpm). I have thought that a DC motor would be the thing but
that raises the price even further and the mini becomes even more
attractive.

Hmm ... I thought that it ran slower than that with the
multi-step pulley which came with mine. I do know that the top speed is
quite scary. :-)

But a different AC motor -- at half the speed -- should do fine.

O.K. I presume that you would like to make the gnomons tapered?
For that, you do what work is needed on a cylindrical basis (probably
between centers) and then shift to between centers with an offset on
the tailstock so you can produce a nice smooth taper.

Tapered or different patterns.

O.K. The patterns will probably be freehand with a half-round
file.

At this point I see no need to cut threads. However, as these things
often work out, I will want to cut one the moment I buy the Taig :-)

Hmm ... part of that cylindrical work on the gnomon might be to
turn a shoulder, and then thread up to the shoulder so the gnomon
could screw directly into whatever it mounts to -- as long as the
gnomon should be perpendicular to the mounting point. That saves you
from having to stock screws and work at hiding them in the assembled
sundial.

Absolutely. I have done one like that so far using a die to cut the thread.
Is that not quicker to do than on a lathe?

You produced a shoulder as well as a thread with hand tools?

The problem with a die is that it is easy to start one out of
line and then very difficult to get the thread back in line.

And -- if the diameter is an unusual one, dies to cut that
thread can be quite expensive.

Yes -- a die can be quicker -- if you can grip the workpiece
firmly enough. But lathe cut threads can be a nicer appearance than
most die cut threads.

[ ... ]

You'll also find it very useful for drilling the initial central
hole before boring it to larger diameters. IIRC, the tailstock
chuck will hold 1/2" drill bits -- but the motor may have a bit of
struggle doing it all in a single pass in steel.

I thought the Taig only did 1/4".

I just went down and verified. *My* (rather old) Taig has a
Jacobs 1/2" capacity chuck which screws onto an external thread on the
tailstock ram. IIRC, it also screws onto an arbor to allow you to use
it powered in the headstock as well.

One of the reasons I am hesitant about the Taig. The descriptions from
various sources are rather confusing. Lee Valley sell 1/4" chuck to go on
the 3/8"-24 tailstock.

The 3/8-24 tailstock thread is the same -- but various size
chucks are available with that thread -- and the one which came with
mine was 1/2".

That can be a problem, too. The Mini-lathe or the Taig are low
enough power so you can afford to make mistakes without producing
serious catastrophes. A 12" or 13" lathe is a different matter, let
alone larger ones. For *those* the class first would be a *very* good
idea. And you *will* learn things from the class even with the
smaller machines. (Granted, I never took such a class -- but I
learned (as an Electronics Technician) from some good machinists at
work, and as a result was one of the few technicians allowed to use
the machine tools in the building.

No argument! Such course would be an excellent idea, which is why I have my
name on the list. But it becomes a matter of allocation of resources. Then
there is a matter of my predisposition to learn things by myself. Many
skills which were supposedly taught to me over the years were learned by the
time honoured method of "see one, do one, teach one". I still have
nightmares about some of the stuff one did in one's youth through arogance,
ignorance, stupidity and total lack of guidance and supervision. But that is
no excuse now, one should have gained the wisdom of age. Fat chance...

:-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Hmm ... thinking about it -- you would need to make an L-shaped
mount for the toolpost to get it far enough out to pass in front of
the workpiece at center height. But *that* is something which you
should be able to make using your mini-mill.

Yay!

The taig in the basic configuration only goes down to 525 rpm
with an AC motor (1725 rpm). I have thought that a DC motor would be
the thing but that raises the price even further and the mini
becomes even more attractive.

I am quoting their web site.

Hmm ... I thought that it ran slower than that with the
multi-step pulley which came with mine. I do know that the top speed
is quite scary. :-)

But a different AC motor -- at half the speed -- should do fine.

And this is where the total cost begins to equal or exceed the mini :-)

You produced a shoulder as well as a thread with hand tools?

I cheated. The shoulder was there already.

The problem with a die is that it is easy to start one out of
line and then very difficult to get the thread back in line.

Tell me about it! I routinely chuck my gnomons (even those without a
shoulder) in my drill press, hold the die in the drill press vise and thread
that way. So far so good...

And -- if the diameter is an unusual one, dies to cut that
thread can be quite expensive.

But if you have a lathe can you not turn the diameter to something usual? I
did this in the drill press with a file. Fortunately it only needed a small
amount to take off.

Yes -- a die can be quicker -- if you can grip the workpiece
firmly enough. But lathe cut threads can be a nicer appearance than
most die cut threads.

Gripping strongly has not been a problem. Chewing up the piece by doing so
was.

Right now it is 3.5 degrees C in my "workshop" and I do not really want to
be there :-). I was supposed to get my woodworking stuff in order (I seem to
be doing more of that than I thought I would have to) which included making
a router table and extending the work bench. I made the router table before
the weather hit. I got as far as the planning stage with the bench. Still,
an opportunity to do some homework. I have also developed a line of clamp
knobs from bottle tops, 1/4"-20 bolts and epoxy. They are ugly but cheap and
can be made in the warmth of the heated house.

I wonder what there is in the gagage that is going to freeze...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Dec 21, 2:28*am, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
Hmm ... thinking about it -- you would need to make an L-shaped
mount for the toolpost to get it far enough out to pass in front of
the workpiece at center height. But *that* is something which you
should be able to make using your mini-mill.

Yay!

The problem with a die is that it is easy to start one out of
line and then very difficult to get the thread back in line.

Tell me about it! I routinely chuck my gnomons (even those without a
shoulder) in my drill press, hold the die in the drill press vise and thread
that way. So far so good...

It's easier if you leave extra stock on the far end to clamp onto, and
a short turned-down stub to guide the die straight. If the die cuts a
shallow thread on the stub it will self-align and bite well into the
full-diameter section.

If the die needs more torque than the work will stand I thread it most
of the way on the lathe first. Then the die turns easily and stays
sharp longer. For me at least dies seem to cut smoother when they only
have a little metal to shave off. You can run the die on backwards to
extend the thread start and smooth it with the less-used edges.

But if you have a lathe can you not turn the diameter to something usual? I
did this in the drill press with a file. Fortunately it only needed a small
amount to take off.

Since you have a mill now, you can cut one surface down to a polygon
centered on another cylindrical part quite easily. To cut smaller,
extend the shaft out the end of the vise and turn it slightly after
each cut. For a large disk with a good round center hole you put an
axle through the hole and rest the axle on the vise jaw tops or
parallels, clamp the disk upright and mill off flats. The axle can be
much smaller than the hole. When you have enough small closely spaced
flats, round them with a file and belt sander. For your thin brake-
rotor-shaped disks the mill should cut lengthwise to reduce vibration.
You could make custom taller vise jaw pads and C-clamp them near the
top. An undersized R/T will work better if there isn't much metal to
remove around the edge of the disk.

This is also an easy way to round the ends of linkage bars etc:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/H...33136395165634

Gripping strongly has not been a problem. Chewing up the piece by doing so
was.

A trick that's claimed to work is to drill a slightly undersized hole
between two hardwood clamp blocks and sprinkle in powdered rosin, like
baseball players use for grip. Or scrape some off a tree.

I saw that in a gunsmithing book as a method to unscrew tight barrels
without scratching them. I don't do gunsmithing but it's one of
several well-documented crafts with good tricks that can be used
elsewhere. Others are watchmaking, aircraft sheetmetal and model steam
engines. I haven't found much written about my real interest,
industrial prototyping and R&D.

The most useful watchmaking idea was the button / disk technique for
accurate hole layout on their manufacturing jigs. The disks are
circular drill bushings whose radii add up to the desired hole
spacing. When pushed together they locate the centers very precisely.
The OD can be turned to the accuracy of your best micrometer, so
potentially you could space holes to within 0.0002".

Rough out the disks, drill and ream the center holes, then turn a snug-
fitting shouldered plug to fit the holes and finish the disks, and
leave it in place in the chuck until done. I ream them all 0.125" and
use a 1/8" spotting drill to drill the work. Then I put dowel pins in
the holes and recheck the measurement. If it's good I center the dowel
pin under the mill spindle, drill and bore.

You can make a custom index circle for an R/T by turning the disks to
the chord distance between the holes and clamping them around a
central disk, which you shave down until the circle of disks closes
into contact. The index hole disks must all be the same diameter but
the actual measured size isn't critical, so you can turn them to match
the smallest, or finish them all without moving the bit.

This relies on measurment and hand fitting, not so much on the
accuracy of the lathe. If it's badly worn you make a separate simple
headstock with ball bearings and drive the back end of it with a dog
from the lathe spindle. Offset the new spindle higher and to the rear,
driven by a belt, for larger work. Then you only need to raise the
toolpost which should be more rigid than a cantilevered adapter. The
belt drive is your speed reducer.

Here is a simple way to adjust the spindle bearings parallel to the
bed without precision machining. The end flanges could be bent up if
you can't weld. Level the shaft by shimming under the lower block:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/H...48334136663058

Four-bolt pillow blocks on spaced parallel plates should also work.

You could have a roughly rounded disk welded onto a mild steel shaft
for the faceplate and turn a center point on the protruding end of the
shaft. I would make the welded steel disk small and bolt on a full-
sized aluminum faceplate.

Right now it is 3.5 degrees C in my "workshop" and I do not really want to
be there :-).

Mine is twice as warm, 7C. It serves as my winter refrigerator.

...I have also developed a line of clamp
knobs from bottle tops, 1/4"-20 bolts and epoxy. They are ugly but cheap and
can be made in the warmth of the heated house.

Cheap, simple, effective. I've used plastic and copper water pipe caps
tapped for the bolt and backed up with a nut. Iron pipe caps make very
solid knobs but they cost almost as much as commercial thumb screws,
which I can get in a surplus store.

Some hardware stores carry plastic knobs that press onto socket head
cap screws.

I make large knobs for the release fitting on hydraulic jacks out of a
knurled disk of aluminum scrap, bored to a press fit and with a milled
slot for the cross pin. If you don't have a knurl, roll a coarse file
or rasp over the disk. They give much better control than the slotted
end of the jack handle for carefully lowering the load.

I wonder what there is in the gagage that is going to freeze...
Michael Koblic,

Most household chemicals seem to freeze without bursting the
container, becoming a slushy mix of small ice crystals rather than a
solid rigid block. They do have to survive warehouse storage.

Jim Wilkins

Jim Wilkins wrote:

It's easier if you leave extra stock on the far end to clamp onto, and
a short turned-down stub to guide the die straight. If the die cuts a
shallow thread on the stub it will self-align and bite well into the
full-diameter section.

That is more or less what I do. It goes only so far: The 1/8" gnomon likes
to twist if too long. Fortunately the material is dead easy to cut.

If the die needs more torque than the work will stand I thread it most
of the way on the lathe first.

Maybe I should buy one...:-)

Then the die turns easily and stays
sharp longer. For me at least dies seem to cut smoother when they only
have a little metal to shave off. You can run the die on backwards to
extend the thread start and smooth it with the less-used edges.

The other important thing I learned is that 14-20 is *not* 1/4"-20.

Since you have a mill now, you can cut one surface down to a polygon
centered on another cylindrical part quite easily. To cut smaller,
extend the shaft out the end of the vise and turn it slightly after
each cut. For a large disk with a good round center hole you put an
axle through the hole and rest the axle on the vise jaw tops or
parallels, clamp the disk upright and mill off flats. The axle can be
much smaller than the hole. When you have enough small closely spaced
flats, round them with a file and belt sander. For your thin brake-
rotor-shaped disks the mill should cut lengthwise to reduce vibration.
You could make custom taller vise jaw pads and C-clamp them near the
top. An undersized R/T will work better if there isn't much metal to
remove around the edge of the disk.

I *think* I got that.

This is also an easy way to round the ends of linkage bars etc:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/H...33136395165634

Normally you would do this on an R/T?

A trick that's claimed to work is to drill a slightly undersized hole
between two hardwood clamp blocks and sprinkle in powdered rosin, like
baseball players use for grip. Or scrape some off a tree.

I use it for soldering. Maybe that is the answer. That would mean having the
gnomon stationary and some sort of die-holder chucked in the drill press.

I saw that in a gunsmithing book as a method to unscrew tight barrels
without scratching them. I don't do gunsmithing but it's one of
several well-documented crafts with good tricks that can be used
elsewhere. Others are watchmaking, aircraft sheetmetal and model steam
engines. I haven't found much written about my real interest,
industrial prototyping and R&D.

Knife-making. Most of my early learning came from there.

The most useful watchmaking idea was the button / disk technique for
accurate hole layout on their manufacturing jigs. The disks are
circular drill bushings whose radii add up to the desired hole
spacing. When pushed together they locate the centers very precisely.
The OD can be turned to the accuracy of your best micrometer, so
potentially you could space holes to within 0.0002".

Rough out the disks, drill and ream the center holes, then turn a
snug- fitting shouldered plug to fit the holes and finish the disks,
and leave it in place in the chuck until done. I ream them all 0.125"
and use a 1/8" spotting drill to drill the work. Then I put dowel
pins in the holes and recheck the measurement. If it's good I center
the dowel pin under the mill spindle, drill and bore.

You can make a custom index circle for an R/T by turning the disks to
the chord distance between the holes and clamping them around a
central disk, which you shave down until the circle of disks closes
into contact. The index hole disks must all be the same diameter but
the actual measured size isn't critical, so you can turn them to match
the smallest, or finish them all without moving the bit.

This relies on measurment and hand fitting, not so much on the
accuracy of the lathe. If it's badly worn you make a separate simple
headstock with ball bearings and drive the back end of it with a dog
from the lathe spindle. Offset the new spindle higher and to the rear,
driven by a belt, for larger work. Then you only need to raise the
toolpost which should be more rigid than a cantilevered adapter. The
belt drive is your speed reducer.

I shall have to read this a few more times...:-)

Here is a simple way to adjust the spindle bearings parallel to the
bed without precision machining. The end flanges could be bent up if
you can't weld. Level the shaft by shimming under the lower block:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/H...48334136663058

Four-bolt pillow blocks on spaced parallel plates should also work.

You could have a roughly rounded disk welded onto a mild steel shaft
for the faceplate and turn a center point on the protruding end of the
shaft. I would make the welded steel disk small and bolt on a full-
sized aluminum faceplate.

Same for this. Although the picture looks like an assembly of all the parts
waiting on my shelf :-)

Right now it is 3.5 degrees C in my "workshop" and I do not really
want to be there :-).

Mine is twice as warm, 7C. It serves as my winter refrigerator.

Anything below 10C and the enthusiasm for the hobby begins to fade. Even
with a triple layer of clothing, woolly hat etc.

Some hardware stores carry plastic knobs that press onto socket head
cap screws.

Or some that fit standard hex bolts. In fact those were the cheapest - $1.10
a pop. I have not priced out mine but they should be considerably under
that, what with garage sale loot and all. BTW my local hardware store does
the knobs for *$8.30* a pop! I had to ask to make sure. Could not believe my
eyes.


Most household chemicals seem to freeze without bursting the
container, becoming a slushy mix of small ice crystals rather than a
solid rigid block. They do have to survive warehouse storage.

As long as the hydrochloric acid and ferric chloride stay in their bottles
all will be well. Normally this is not an issue locally, but this year our
temperature has been consistently below the seasonal average. Must be the
global warming I suppose...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On 2008-12-21, Michael Koblic wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

[ ... ]

Hmm ... I thought that it ran slower than that with the
multi-step pulley which came with mine. I do know that the top speed
is quite scary. :-)

But a different AC motor -- at half the speed -- should do fine.

And this is where the total cost begins to equal or exceed the mini :-)

Well ... the motor on mine is an inexpensive motor, and you
should be able to pick up a used motor with half the speed for not too
much. The main thing is that you want one with the same diameter shaft,
since you can't bore the motor pulley out to a larger size with the
lathe without a motor. :-)

There is a limit as to how much horsepower you can pump through
that ultra-skinny belt, so there is no point in going for expensive
motors.

Let's see -- you're in Canada, aren't you? In that case, you
may have 50 Hz power instead of the 60 Hz in the USA. That means that
the motor speeds will drop by a similar ratio.

Now -- the fastest induction motor on 60 Hz will run somewhat
slower than 3600 RPM (probably 3500 or 3550 depending on slip) from 60
Hz. That same motor would be 3000 (2900 or 2950) on 50 Hz. For
convenience let's work with the synchronous speed, even though it will
run somewhat slower. Anyway this is for a 2-pole motor.

A 4-pole motor would be 1500 RPM, and a 6-pole motor would be
1000 RPM. I've seen 900 RPM on 60 Hz (presumably 8-pole), which would
be 750 RPM on 50 Hz.

Now -- that would be with the middle set of steps on the pulleys
(equal diameter in and out). I would think that the pulley could get
the spindle down to 200 RPM or so with that motor. (Maybe I should
actually measure the speeds on my lathe?

You produced a shoulder as well as a thread with hand tools?

I cheated. The shoulder was there already.

:-)

The problem with a die is that it is easy to start one out of
line and then very difficult to get the thread back in line.

Tell me about it! I routinely chuck my gnomons (even those without a
shoulder) in my drill press, hold the die in the drill press vise and thread
that way. So far so good...

O.K. That helps -- as does a sliding die holder on the lathe.
But for the larger diameters, you would have to start the die under
power, and then switch out of the lathe to manual operations.

And -- if the diameter is an unusual one, dies to cut that
thread can be quite expensive.

But if you have a lathe can you not turn the diameter to something usual?

If something usual will indeed be strong enough. There are
times when you want a larger diameter for strength, but an uncommonly
fine thread to engage in fairly thin material for the female thread.

I
did this in the drill press with a file. Fortunately it only needed a small
amount to take off.

O.K. Beware of the side pressure of the file popping the drill
press's chuck off of the spindle and leaving it (and your workpiece)
skittering around the room.

Yes -- a die can be quicker -- if you can grip the workpiece
firmly enough. But lathe cut threads can be a nicer appearance than
most die cut threads.

Gripping strongly has not been a problem. Chewing up the piece by doing so
was.

That is where a collet helps -- assuming a cylindrical surface
for the collet to grip. Tapers make life more difficult.

Right now it is 3.5 degrees C in my "workshop" and I do not really want to
be there :-).

I can understand that. About 38.2 D -- kind of nippy, though
better than -40. :-)

I was supposed to get my woodworking stuff in order (I seem to
be doing more of that than I thought I would have to) which included making
a router table and extending the work bench. I made the router table before
the weather hit. I got as far as the planning stage with the bench. Still,
an opportunity to do some homework. I have also developed a line of clamp
knobs from bottle tops, 1/4"-20 bolts and epoxy. They are ugly but cheap and
can be made in the warmth of the heated house.

Warmth is *really* needed if you want the epoxy to cure in a
semi-reasonable time. :-)

I wonder what there is in the gagage that is going to freeze...

And 3.5 C? Nothing likely. But get colder and ...

Anti-freeze*? :-) Glues? The epoxy itself? Oil should have no
problems, though grease can get thick enough to do no lubrication for a
while. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

* Yes -- anti-freeze will freeze at a higher temperature than the
optimum mix of anti-freeze and water.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-12-22, Michael Koblic wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:

[ ... ]

A trick that's claimed to work is to drill a slightly undersized hole
between two hardwood clamp blocks and sprinkle in powdered rosin, like
baseball players use for grip. Or scrape some off a tree.

I use it for soldering. Maybe that is the answer. That would mean having the
gnomon stationary and some sort of die-holder chucked in the drill press.

Or -- turn a piece of aluminum to a sliding fit on the gnomon,
slit one side, and clamp it in the lathe chuck or in a vise to clamp the
aluminum down on the gnomon. This should be a good grip. (It could
even be used in the drill press chuck if the total diameter is small
enough to fit the chuck.

[ ... ]

Right now it is 3.5 degrees C in my "workshop" and I do not really
want to be there :-).

Mine is twice as warm, 7C. It serves as my winter refrigerator.

Anything below 10C and the enthusiasm for the hobby begins to fade. Even
with a triple layer of clothing, woolly hat etc.

Be warned -- *don't* use machine tools while wearing gloves.
They can catch on the chuck jaws or on a dog or whatever and wrap your
arm around the workpiece or the mill spindle. If you can't keep your
hands warm enough with a close space heater, *don't* work there.

[ ... ]

Most household chemicals seem to freeze without bursting the
container, becoming a slushy mix of small ice crystals rather than a
solid rigid block. They do have to survive warehouse storage.

As long as the hydrochloric acid and ferric chloride stay in their bottles
all will be well.

Neither of those are common household chemicals, both have lots
of water in them, and so the question of what is the freezing point is a
function of how much of the other things are in there with the water.

I would bring both into the warmed house if I were you. Or at
least put each in a soft plastic container surrounding the glass one, so
if the glass breaks, the plastic keeps the fluids away from other
things.

Normally this is not an issue locally, but this year our
temperature has been consistently below the seasonal average. Must be the
global warming I suppose...

Be careful with both of those substances.

BTW -- *don't* use either near your machine tools They *will*
rust like mad. Go outdoors to use either (unless you have a fume hood).

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... the motor on mine is an inexpensive motor, and you
should be able to pick up a used motor with half the speed for not too
much. The main thing is that you want one with the same diameter
shaft, since you can't bore the motor pulley out to a larger size
with the lathe without a motor. :-)

If the lowest spindle speed with a 1750 rpm motor is 525 rpm then half-speed
motor (875 rpm - 8 pole) will still get me 260 rpm (give or take) - still
pretty swift. BTW quick search shows that such motors are a) rare as hen's
teeth and b) expensive. To me it would make more sense to strip a treadmill
or something and use the DC motor with speed control. Or buy the mini in the
first place :-)


Right now it is 3.5 degrees C in my "workshop" and I do not really
want to be there :-).

I can understand that. About 38.2 D -- kind of nippy, though
better than -40. :-)

But that is still better than -80. Everything is relative. Do you know many
workshops with ambient temperature of -40? I know that when Russians
evacuated all their heavy industry during WW2 to the Urals some of the
factories operated without roofs. But that is probably extreme and a major
difference between a hobby and getting shot by the KGB (sorry, NKVD then)
for refusing to work on the thin pretext of being frost-bitten.

Warmth is *really* needed if you want the epoxy to cure in a
semi-reasonable time. :-)

And paint...

I wonder what there is in the gagage that is going to freeze...

And 3.5 C? Nothing likely. But get colder and ...

Anti-freeze*? :-) Glues? The epoxy itself? Oil should have no
problems, though grease can get thick enough to do no lubrication for
a while. :-)

When I was young and living in a bed-sitter one way of telling room
temperature first thing in the morning was to observe natural phenomena.
Breath begins to condense at about 12C. Below 4C the cooking oil (at least
the English cooking oil of yesteryear) is reluctant to flow out of the
bottle.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Dec 21, 8:25*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
On Dec 21, 8:25 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
Since you have a mill now, you can cut one surface down to a polygon
centered on another cylindrical part quite easily. ...

I *think* I got that.
Normally you would do this on an R/T?

Here is a dummy setup for roughing out a curve concentric to a hole:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/T...75471032901730

The part is a clamp to hold an indicator on the Clausing mill's
spindle. I bored the hole first and then cut away the rest. As you can
see this aluminum part was finished on a rotary table, a lightweight
no-name one that wouldn't handle this job in a similar piece of steel.
The vise setup is much quicker than centering and clamping the part on
an R/T, and safer when the curve ends in straight tangents where the
end mill can grab, rotate the table by its free play and dig in
badly.

When I blend a curve to a flat this way, I set the end mill to the
height of the flat and then lower the table (you'd raise the spindle)
about 0.005". The line of tangency won't be exactly radial but that is
invisible, whereas cutting too deep leaves an obvious step at the end
of the curve.

A trick that's claimed to work is to drill a slightly undersized hole
between two hardwood clamp blocks and sprinkle in powdered rosin, like
baseball players use for grip. Or scrape some off a tree.

I use it for soldering. Maybe that is the answer. That would mean having the
gnomon stationary and some sort of die-holder chucked in the drill press.

I usually clamp the shaft horizontally in the bench vise with the end
protruding slightly and align the die parallel to the jaw end by eye.
A square end on the blocks would let you do the same. This is for
large coarse threads, for small ones I square the die with a drill
arbor or female center in the lathe's tailstock.

Alignment would be easier in a drill press vise. Push the shaft toward
the jaw with the die and tighten just before it makes contact.

Once the die starts to bite you can control the whole assembly with
one hand, slide the shaft out a little to give the die some clearance,
and use the other hand to retighten the vise.

Or if you put the starting stub on the gnomon you can align it in the
drill press and then cut the full thread in clamp blocks.

...well-documented crafts with good tricks that can be used
elsewhere. ...

Knife-making. Most of my early learning came from there.

I have the Hrisoulas video but not the artistic ability. My best
effort has been compared to a prison shiv.

The most useful watchmaking idea was the button / disk technique for
accurate hole layout on their manufacturing jigs. ...

I shall have to read this a few more times...:-)

Here is an example:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/T...90941151914594
The disks are the black hardened cylinders on the upper left jaw, with
dowel pins protruding. The upper right jaw shows the hole pattern that
matches the pins and tapped hole on the chuck. The pin spacing appears
to be 1-5/32" but they are too short and rounded to mike directly.

The chuck is like one from the old Holtzapffel drawings. Rotating the
outer knurled ring cams the pin plates about 0.050" in and out. It's
used to turn delicate rings such as lens retainers, by closing it half
way (I think) and cutting a step to clamp the part securely all the
way around. I didn't waste large enough stock to reach the center
because I use 5C collets for smaller tubing.

I turned all three disks down until they fit in line on the chuck
pins. The middle one pushes through with slight resistance, less than
its weight, so tilting the chuck until it slips through is a very
sensitive way to test the fit.

I didn't drill through them, but drilled and reamed the first hole at
a punch mark and then used them with dowel pins to center the mill
spindle for the other two. Since only the outer holes are really
critical, I put a dowel pin in a collet, lowered it into a disk and
adjusted the mill table to get the same feel when sliding the center
disk between them as on the chuck pins.

I guess my 10-ft scarf is right out, then... :-)
Isadora Duncan

Jim Wilkins

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Here is a dummy setup for roughing out a curve concentric to a hole:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/T...75471032901730

Right. I see now.

I usually clamp the shaft horizontally in the bench vise with the end
protruding slightly and align the die parallel to the jaw end by eye.
A square end on the blocks would let you do the same. This is for
large coarse threads, for small ones I square the die with a drill
arbor or female center in the lathe's tailstock.

I have managed to screw up the treads this way all the way up to 1/4". Hence
the drill press.

Alignment would be easier in a drill press vise. Push the shaft toward
the jaw with the die and tighten just before it makes contact.

Once the die starts to bite you can control the whole assembly with
one hand, slide the shaft out a little to give the die some clearance,
and use the other hand to retighten the vise.

Or if you put the starting stub on the gnomon you can align it in the
drill press and then cut the full thread in clamp blocks.

Yes, once I got the beginning the rest is easy.

I have the Hrisoulas video but not the artistic ability. My best
effort has been compared to a prison shiv.

I relate to that.

The most useful watchmaking idea was the button / disk technique for
accurate hole layout on their manufacturing jigs. ...

Here is an example:
big snip

That one is beyond me..

I guess my 10-ft scarf is right out, then... :-)
Isadora Duncan

I do not dance as well...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On 2008-12-22, Michael Koblic wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... the motor on mine is an inexpensive motor, and you
should be able to pick up a used motor with half the speed for not too
much. The main thing is that you want one with the same diameter
shaft, since you can't bore the motor pulley out to a larger size
with the lathe without a motor. :-)

If the lowest spindle speed with a 1750 rpm motor is 525 rpm then half-speed
motor (875 rpm - 8 pole) will still get me 260 rpm (give or take) - still
pretty swift. BTW quick search shows that such motors are a) rare as hen's
teeth and b) expensive. To me it would make more sense to strip a treadmill
or something and use the DC motor with speed control. Or buy the mini in the
first place :-)

The use of treadmill motors is fairly common. There used to be
a treadmill motor and controller offered by a surplus house, and one
common modification was to eliminate the safety feature (for a
treadmill) of requiring the speed pot to be turned down to zero before
it would start. Obviously a pain with a lathe. :-)

Right now it is 3.5 degrees C in my "workshop" and I do not really
want to be there :-).

I can understand that. About 38.2 D -- kind of nippy, though
better than -40. :-)

But that is still better than -80. Everything is relative.

Agreed. The reason that I mentioned -40 -- without telling
which measurement system -- is that -40 is the only temperature at which
it does not *matter* which system you use. K and R are eliminated,
because they both start at absolute zero, so negative values don't
exist. C and F are the same temperature at -40. :-)

Do you know many
workshops with ambient temperature of -40? I know that when Russians
evacuated all their heavy industry during WW2 to the Urals some of the
factories operated without roofs. But that is probably extreme and a major
difference between a hobby and getting shot by the KGB (sorry, NKVD then)
for refusing to work on the thin pretext of being frost-bitten.

:-)

[ ... ]

I wonder what there is in the gagage that is going to freeze...

At 3.5 C? Nothing likely. But get colder and ...

Anti-freeze*? :-) Glues? The epoxy itself? Oil should have no
problems, though grease can get thick enough to do no lubrication for
a while. :-)

When I was young and living in a bed-sitter one way of telling room
temperature first thing in the morning was to observe natural phenomena.
Breath begins to condense at about 12C. Below 4C the cooking oil (at least
the English cooking oil of yesteryear) is reluctant to flow out of the
bottle.

Hmm ... I was in the shop this afternoon -- and my breath was
not condensing. I had an electric heater by my feet running to keep the
feet a bit warm at least -- and presumably the somewhat warmed air did
come up past my face, but I did not notice that. :-)

But the waylube was noticeably stiff in the surface grinder
table. I was working to thin down some open-end wrenches so they would
fit the tap chucks on a couple of TapMatic tapping heads. I now finally
have a full set of wrenches for the two sizes. (Of course, they should
have come with the heads -- if I had bought them new. -- But those would
be cheap stamped steel wrenches anyway. These were forged steel ones
which simply had too thick a head to fit in to the milled flats.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:

The use of treadmill motors is fairly common. There used to be
a treadmill motor and controller offered by a surplus house, and one
common modification was to eliminate the safety feature (for a
treadmill) of requiring the speed pot to be turned down to zero before
it would start. Obviously a pain with a lathe. :-)

I am supposed to start up my mill from zero.

Hmm ... I was in the shop this afternoon -- and my breath was
not condensing. I had an electric heater by my feet running to keep
the feet a bit warm at least -- and presumably the somewhat warmed
air did come up past my face, but I did not notice that. :-)

Or you could be a lizard. Have you saved up to 15% recently on car
insurance? If you do not have the same Geico TV commercials this joke is
dead...

But the waylube was noticeably stiff in the surface grinder
table. I was working to thin down some open-end wrenches so they
would fit the tap chucks on a couple of TapMatic tapping heads. I
now finally have a full set of wrenches for the two sizes. (Of
course, they should have come with the heads -- if I had bought them
new. -- But those would be cheap stamped steel wrenches anyway.
These were forged steel ones which simply had too thick a head to fit
in to the milled flats.

Somebody posted a recommendation here for the Craftex B2227L lathe with a
link to a discussion forum thread. The first 6 pages fo the thread (I went
no further) dealt with what viscosity the oil in the headstock should be.
Apparently when started up in the cold workshop the lathe was slow. It got
better with oil change!

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On 2008-12-22, Michael Koblic wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
Or -- turn a piece of aluminum to a sliding fit on the gnomon,
slit one side, and clamp it in the lathe chuck or in a vise to clamp
the aluminum down on the gnomon. This should be a good grip. (It
could even be used in the drill press chuck if the total diameter is
small enough to fit the chuck.

When you say "turn", you don't mean....?!

A "lathe" -- yes. :-)

Be warned -- *don't* use machine tools while wearing gloves.
They can catch on the chuck jaws or on a dog or whatever and wrap your
arm around the workpiece or the mill spindle. If you can't keep your
hands warm enough with a close space heater, *don't* work there.

I guess my 10-ft scarf is right out, then... :-)

As is my 30-foot "Dr. Who" pattern scarf.

The Taig probably doesn't have the power to be a serious risk,
but I'll bet that the Mini Mill does.

I would bring both into the warmed house if I were you. Or at
least put each in a soft plastic container surrounding the glass one,
so if the glass breaks, the plastic keeps the fluids away from other
things.

They are in plastic and triple-wrapped.

Good.

BTW -- *don't* use either near your machine tools They *will*
rust like mad. Go outdoors to use either (unless you have a fume
hood).

Ferric chloride has never given me problems. No fumes to speak of.
Unimpressed wife if you wash the bowls in her sink. HCl is a different
kettle of fish...

Well ... not when it's cold, but I've experienced FeCl solution
in a printed circuit board spray etcher. Someone else (I actually know
who it was) left the lid up and the heater on overnight, so there were
fumes (not much but there were). And there was a Gerstner lathe-bed
style optical bench with several optical bench slides on it, and those
were rusted beyond recovery. At least the thing had a safety switch to
keep the spray pump from running while the lid was up. :-)

When we moved the PC facility to another building, and and added
a thin film integrated circuit facility, I designed a plexiglass housing
to go over the new spray etcher, with a sliding front door, to keep
*everything* turned off except when the sliding door was closed and the
exhaust fan on the roof was running. It was also located as far from
anything with rust potential as possible -- and that was a *large* room.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---