My 2 year, 11 months and 1 week old Viewsonic flat screen monitor crapped out recently. Yeah,
that's right, it had only 3 weeks to go on the original 3-year warranty. I called Viewsonic and
they gave me a RMA for return to Walnut, CA. The 19 inch monitor was replaced with a 22 inch model
of better specs than original. I can't say enough about Viewsonic.

Bob Swinney

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Robert Swinney wrote:
My 2 year, 11 months and 1 week old Viewsonic flat screen monitor crapped out recently. Yeah,
that's right, it had only 3 weeks to go on the original 3-year warranty. I called Viewsonic and
they gave me a RMA for return to Walnut, CA. The 19 inch monitor was replaced with a 22 inch model
of better specs than original. I can't say enough about Viewsonic.

Bob Swinney

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Decent products and support might be why they're one of the few old
monitor makers still in business.

On Aug 12, 4:29*pm, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Robert Swinney wrote:
...I can't say enough about Viewsonic.
Decent products and support might be why they're one of the few old
monitor makers still in business.

Does anyone have good or bad experience with their monitors with built-
in ATSC tuners?

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:30:50 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:

My 2 year, 11 months and 1 week old Viewsonic flat screen monitor crapped out recently. Yeah,
that's right, it had only 3 weeks to go on the original 3-year warranty. I called Viewsonic and
they gave me a RMA for return to Walnut, CA. The 19 inch monitor was replaced with a 22 inch model
of better specs than original. I can't say enough about Viewsonic.

Bob Swinney

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
My 2 year old 19" LG Flatron started blinking on "wake up" a couple
months ago. Warranty - 3 Yr. on monitor itself, 1 year on back light.
I contacted the local LG repair depot and was told that they don't
repair, only replace monitors and gave me the contact info. RMA was
declined since they diagnosed the problem to be the power adapter and
gave me a phone # to give them my shipping address. The package
arrived three days later, only to turn out to be a power cord (billed
out at $17.30)
After several e-mails and phone calls, I got P****d off and started a
new request for RMA and, once again was requested to phone with
shipping information. This time I almost needed a water cooled
telephone, but I got results. Sure enough, when the power adapter
arrived, I plugged it in and its working fine now, over a month later
(due to some idiot part picker/shipping clerk)
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Robert Swinney wrote:
My 2 year, 11 months and 1 week old Viewsonic flat screen monitor crapped out recently. Yeah,
that's right, it had only 3 weeks to go on the original 3-year warranty. I called Viewsonic and
they gave me a RMA for return to Walnut, CA. The 19 inch monitor was replaced with a 22 inch model
of better specs than original. I can't say enough about Viewsonic.

Bob Swinney

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


I had a similar thing happen. Received a new monitor with probably less than a year to go
on the warranty. I'd gotten mine through a local dealer and worked everything through
them. No having to ship, etc.

On 2008-08-13, Al Patrick wrote:
Robert Swinney wrote:
My 2 year, 11 months and 1 week old Viewsonic flat screen monitor crapped out recently. Yeah,
that's right, it had only 3 weeks to go on the original 3-year warranty. I called Viewsonic and
they gave me a RMA for return to Walnut, CA. The 19 inch monitor was replaced with a 22 inch model
of better specs than original. I can't say enough about Viewsonic.

Bob Swinney

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


I had a similar thing happen. Received a new monitor with probably less than a year to go
on the warranty. I'd gotten mine through a local dealer and worked everything through
them. No having to ship, etc.

Same thing with Acer LCD monitor.

i

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:49:24 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:

Robert Swinney wrote:
My 2 year, 11 months and 1 week old Viewsonic flat screen monitor crapped out recently. Yeah,
that's right, it had only 3 weeks to go on the original 3-year warranty. I called Viewsonic and
they gave me a RMA for return to Walnut, CA. The 19 inch monitor was replaced with a 22 inch model
of better specs than original. I can't say enough about Viewsonic.

Bob Swinney

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


I had a similar thing happen. Received a new monitor with probably less than a year to go
on the warranty. I'd gotten mine through a local dealer and worked everything through
them. No having to ship, etc.


I've had several flatscreens fail just off warranty. Problem was
traced down to a couple electrolytic caps that had swelled. Nobody
local had them in stock so I ebayed 10 of each out of HongKong of all
places - japanese caps - for less than I could have bought them out of
the states without the shipping. A couple minutes with the soldering
iron and all 3 back in service - with spare parts for 2 more.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Hmmmm. Going on 9 years on my Proview 19" CRT monitor. On, on standby
24/7. Best color depth and definition I've ever seen in a monitor.
Have 16 years on my Viewsonic 15" CRT monitor at work, same use. Have
2 Magnavox 27" CRT TeeWees, circa 1993, both perfect. 2-3 years old?
TSK,TSK,TSK. Why are you lauding Viewsonic for selling you junk
electronics-just because they warranty it? That's a given.
JR
Dweller in the cellar


On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:30:50 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:

My 2 year, 11 months and 1 week old Viewsonic flat screen monitor crapped out recently. Yeah,
that's right, it had only 3 weeks to go on the original 3-year warranty. I called Viewsonic and
they gave me a RMA for return to Walnut, CA. The 19 inch monitor was replaced with a 22 inch model
of better specs than original. I can't say enough about Viewsonic.

Bob Swinney

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:09:20 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

I've had several flatscreens fail just off warranty. Problem was
traced down to a couple electrolytic caps that had swelled. Nobody
local had them in stock so I ebayed 10 of each out of HongKong of all
places - japanese caps - for less than I could have bought them out of
the states without the shipping. A couple minutes with the soldering
iron and all 3 back in service - with spare parts for 2 more.

That's handy to know, clare. What brand were they, or were they
generic Canuckistani?

I have a Viewsonic just out of warranty and, other than the single
bright green pixel which was out when it was brand new, it's hanging
in there nicely.

--
Pain makes man think. Thought makes man wise. Wisdom makes life endurable.
-- John Patrick

On 2008-08-13, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada clare wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:49:24 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:

[ ... ]

I've had several flatscreens fail just off warranty. Problem was
traced down to a couple electrolytic caps that had swelled. Nobody
local had them in stock so I ebayed 10 of each out of HongKong of all
places - japanese caps - for less than I could have bought them out of
the states without the shipping. A couple minutes with the soldering
iron and all 3 back in service - with spare parts for 2 more.

Hmm ... IIRC, the cause of the swelling capacitors was some
manufacturer (Chinese, I think) buying a stolen formula for electrolyte
from a Japanese source. But the stolen formula had a problem, and
capacitors made with that formula tend to swell and die within a couple
of years. It strikes me that your Hong Kong ones may well be ones made
with the stolen formula, and likely to die just like the originals did.

Good luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-08-13, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada clare wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:49:24 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:

[ ... ]

I've had several flatscreens fail just off warranty. Problem was
traced down to a couple electrolytic caps that had swelled. Nobody
local had them in stock so I ebayed 10 of each out of HongKong of all
places - japanese caps - for less than I could have bought them out
of the states without the shipping. A couple minutes with the
soldering iron and all 3 back in service - with spare parts for 2
more.

Hmm ... IIRC, the cause of the swelling capacitors was some
manufacturer (Chinese, I think) buying a stolen formula for
electrolyte from a Japanese source. But the stolen formula had a
problem, and capacitors made with that formula tend to swell and die
within a couple of years. It strikes me that your Hong Kong ones may
well be ones made with the stolen formula, and likely to die just
like the originals did.

Abit ended up with a series of motherboards that had this problem.
I know - I have one, and the fix was replacing the caps with good high
quality hardware.


--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:30:50 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:

My 2 year, 11 months and 1 week old Viewsonic flat screen monitor crapped out recently. Yeah,
that's right, it had only 3 weeks to go on the original 3-year warranty. I called Viewsonic and
they gave me a RMA for return to Walnut, CA. The 19 inch monitor was replaced with a 22 inch model
of better specs than original. I can't say enough about Viewsonic.

Bob Swinney

Good to know!

There really are still reputable companies.

My list:

Dillon (reloading kit) "No bull****" warranty. Top grades, superb.
Savage Arms: excellent response to warranty issues
Swift optics: completely satisfactory response to warranty problem
Dell Computers: outstanding.
Ruger: (as told by a friend) excellent
Taurus: (as told by a friend) tough ****, suckah
Kimber: (as told by a dealer) see Taurus

This time I almost needed a water cooled
telephone,

That's funny

On Aug 13, 3:30 am, "Robert Swinney" wrote:

I can't say enough about Viewsonic.





I cant say enough about them either - or, indeed, most Chinese
manufactured monitors and TV's.

In warranty, fine - they replace it, just like the $10 toaster at
KMART. Write off the old one as a tax deduction.

Out of warranty - your totally on your own, no spares, no service
data, Chinese IC's with no datasheets available. Not unusual to write
off a 3 yo Plasma because the repalcement boards are suddenly NLA
( translated, this means the extra boards they made on the original
production run have all been used, so tough titty...)

Rat cunning and experience can help - power supply caps are very
common, much more than this, forget it.

But this is consumer capitalism - as long as your working, in the
consumption loop, its not a problem - just buy a new one every 3
years. Wonder how long we, as a society, can keep up this ever
increasing consumption....oh, and don't lose your job, or retire -
your then out of the loop.

Andrew VK3BFA.

On Aug 13, 6:29*am, wrote:
...

But this is consumer capitalism - as long as your working, in the
consumption loop, its not a problem - just buy a new one every 3
years. Wonder how long we, as a society, can keep up this ever
increasing consumption....oh, and don't lose your job, or retire *-
your then out of the loop.

Andrew VK3BFA.

OTOH, when you retire you have time to keep older repairable stuff
running and you can visit the appliance parts stores during business
hours. My microwave is from the '70's, the washing machine from the
60's and the lawnmower from the 50's.

Jim Wilkins

On Aug 13, 9:01 pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Aug 13, 6:29 am, wrote:
...



But this is consumer capitalism - as long as your working, in the
consumption loop, its not a problem - just buy a new one every 3
years. Wonder how long we, as a society, can keep up this ever
increasing consumption....oh, and don't lose your job, or retire -
your then out of the loop.

Andrew VK3BFA.

OTOH, when you retire you have time to keep older repairable stuff
running and you can visit the appliance parts stores during business
hours. My microwave is from the '70's, the washing machine from the
60's and the lawnmower from the 50's.

Jim Wilkins

Interesting dates of manufacture Jim - a slower, more gentle period
when things were DESIGNED to be serviced, assembled by people so that
another person could take it to pieces, and where there were multiple
sources of generic spares.....at least, for the 3 examples you quote.

Andrew VK3BFA.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:21:39 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:09:20 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

I've had several flatscreens fail just off warranty. Problem was
traced down to a couple electrolytic caps that had swelled. Nobody
local had them in stock so I ebayed 10 of each out of HongKong of all
places - japanese caps - for less than I could have bought them out of
the states without the shipping. A couple minutes with the soldering
iron and all 3 back in service - with spare parts for 2 more.

That's handy to know, clare. What brand were they, or were they
generic Canuckistani?

I have a Viewsonic just out of warranty and, other than the single
bright green pixel which was out when it was brand new, it's hanging
in there nicely.
Acers all. AL1711 - all bought at the same time, failed within 3
weeks. 3 of 6 still woking 2 months later - but expected to fail
shortly

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On 13 Aug 2008 04:27:44 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2008-08-13, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada clare wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:49:24 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:

[ ... ]

I've had several flatscreens fail just off warranty. Problem was
traced down to a couple electrolytic caps that had swelled. Nobody
local had them in stock so I ebayed 10 of each out of HongKong of all
places - japanese caps - for less than I could have bought them out of
the states without the shipping. A couple minutes with the soldering
iron and all 3 back in service - with spare parts for 2 more.

Hmm ... IIRC, the cause of the swelling capacitors was some
manufacturer (Chinese, I think) buying a stolen formula for electrolyte
from a Japanese source. But the stolen formula had a problem, and
capacitors made with that formula tend to swell and die within a couple
of years. It strikes me that your Hong Kong ones may well be ones made
with the stolen formula, and likely to die just like the originals did.

Good luck,
DoN.

no the ones from HongKong are japanese built Sanyo units.

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:29:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



But this is consumer capitalism - as long as your working, in the
consumption loop, its not a problem - just buy a new one every 3
years. Wonder how long we, as a society, can keep up this ever
increasing consumption....oh, and don't lose your job, or retire -
your then out of the loop.

Andrew VK3BFA.

We all drive things in this direction by buying lowest price.
Engineers don't purposely design consumer goods to be unrepairable;
they strive (are driven) for lowest possible factory cost. The result
is that replacement is usually more economical than repair.

Back in the early 50's, a (repairable) television set cost $300 to
$500. The first microwave oven (Amana Radarange) cost 700 of those
dollars.
Based on 1950 CPI of 24.1 and 2007 CPI of 215, the TV would cost
a couple of thousand of today's dollars and no wonder only very
wealthy folks had microwave ovens! Today we can buy a TV or a
microwave for well under $100.

Don Foreman wrote:

(...)
Today we can buy a TV or a
microwave for well under $100.

Which would have been ~$11.21 in 1950!

--Winston

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:29:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Aug 13, 3:30 am, "Robert Swinney" wrote:

I can't say enough about Viewsonic.





I cant say enough about them either - or, indeed, most Chinese
manufactured monitors and TV's.

In warranty, fine - they replace it, just like the $10 toaster at
KMART. Write off the old one as a tax deduction.

Out of warranty - your totally on your own, no spares, no service
data, Chinese IC's with no datasheets available. Not unusual to write
off a 3 yo Plasma because the repalcement boards are suddenly NLA
( translated, this means the extra boards they made on the original
production run have all been used, so tough titty...)

Rat cunning and experience can help - power supply caps are very
common, much more than this, forget it.

But this is consumer capitalism - as long as your working, in the
consumption loop, its not a problem - just buy a new one every 3
years. Wonder how long we, as a society, can keep up this ever
increasing consumption....oh, and don't lose your job, or retire -
your then out of the loop.

Andrew VK3BFA.
And what happens wnen the ladfills are all full of the crap. Costs me
$10 PER PEICE to dispose of computer hardware - monitors, keyboards,
printers, etc. Disposal of a mouse is as much as it's cost.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:46:21 -0400, clare at snyder ... wrote:
On 13 Aug 2008 04:27:44 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" ... wrote:
On 2008-08-13, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada clare wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:49:24 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:
....
I've had several flatscreens fail just off warranty. Problem was
traced down to a couple electrolytic caps that had swelled. Nobody
local had them in stock so I ebayed 10 of each out of HongKong of all
places - japanese caps - for less than I could have bought them out of
the states without the shipping. A couple minutes with the soldering
iron and all 3 back in service - with spare parts for 2 more.

Hmm ... IIRC, the cause of the swelling capacitors was some
manufacturer (Chinese, I think) buying a stolen formula for electrolyte
from a Japanese source. But the stolen formula had a problem, and
capacitors made with that formula tend to swell and die within a couple
of years. It strikes me that your Hong Kong ones may well be ones made
with the stolen formula, and likely to die just like the originals did.
....
no the ones from HongKong are japanese built Sanyo units.

According to http://www.techmati.com/articles/caps/index.htm the
Japanese brands Panasonic, Rubycon, Sanyo, and Nichicon are all
good. That article lists about 25 companies (apparently mostly
Chinese and Taiwanese) known to have produced bad caps.
Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
and its links to some 2003 and 2006 IEEE Spectrum articles about
the problem.

-jiw

And what happens wnen the ladfills are all full of the crap. Costs me
$10 PER PEICE to dispose of computer hardware - monitors, keyboards,
printers, etc. Disposal of a mouse is as much as it's cost.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Today's landfills will be tomorrow's goldmines.
--


Ron Thompson
Riding my '07 XL883C Sportster
On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast,
right beside the Kennedy Space Center,
USA

http://www.plansandprojects.com
My hobby pages are he
http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/

Visit the castinghobby FAQ:
http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/

Add yourself to the member map he
http://www.frappr.com/castinghobby

Want to have some fun? The next time you're at McDonald's, wait until
the kid has your change ready and then say "Wait, I've got the two cents."
-Ron Thompson

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:44:10 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:21:39 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:09:20 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

I've had several flatscreens fail just off warranty. Problem was
traced down to a couple electrolytic caps that had swelled. Nobody
local had them in stock so I ebayed 10 of each out of HongKong of all
places - japanese caps - for less than I could have bought them out of
the states without the shipping. A couple minutes with the soldering
iron and all 3 back in service - with spare parts for 2 more.

That's handy to know, clare. What brand were they, or were they
generic Canuckistani?

I have a Viewsonic just out of warranty and, other than the single
bright green pixel which was out when it was brand new, it's hanging
in there nicely.
Acers all. AL1711 - all bought at the same time, failed within 3
weeks. 3 of 6 still woking 2 months later - but expected to fail
shortly

Suckage on the monitors, eh?

I'm running an Acer now and it's the best comp I've had in a long
while. It's whisper quiet, the fan coming on only for heavy graphic or
processor work. I really, really love that. I need to add more memory,
though. I ended up buying a Viewsonic VA1912wb to go with it because
the Acer monitor had twice the pixel latency time and was not well
received.

--
Learn to value yourself, which means: to fight for your happiness.
-- Ayn Rand

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Aug 13, 6:29?am, wrote:
...

But this is consumer capitalism - as long as your working, in the
consumption loop, its not a problem - just buy a new one every 3
years. Wonder how long we, as a society, can keep up this ever
increasing consumption....oh, and don't lose your job, or retire ?-
your then out of the loop.

Andrew VK3BFA.

OTOH, when you retire you have time to keep older repairable stuff
running and you can visit the appliance parts stores during business
hours. My microwave is from the '70's, the washing machine from the
60's and the lawnmower from the 50's.

all that old stuff was made to last and be fixable. That's not the case
with modern electronics.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:30:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:44:10 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:21:39 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:09:20 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

I've had several flatscreens fail just off warranty. Problem was
traced down to a couple electrolytic caps that had swelled. Nobody
local had them in stock so I ebayed 10 of each out of HongKong of all
places - japanese caps - for less than I could have bought them out of
the states without the shipping. A couple minutes with the soldering
iron and all 3 back in service - with spare parts for 2 more.

That's handy to know, clare. What brand were they, or were they
generic Canuckistani?

I have a Viewsonic just out of warranty and, other than the single
bright green pixel which was out when it was brand new, it's hanging
in there nicely.
Acers all. AL1711 - all bought at the same time, failed within 3
weeks. 3 of 6 still woking 2 months later - but expected to fail
shortly

Suckage on the monitors, eh?

I'm running an Acer now and it's the best comp I've had in a long
while. It's whisper quiet, the fan coming on only for heavy graphic or
processor work. I really, really love that. I need to add more memory,
though. I ended up buying a Viewsonic VA1912wb to go with it because
the Acer monitor had twice the pixel latency time and was not well
received.


The Acer stuff is pretty decent - I've got a LOT of Acer 'puters in
service, and almost as many flatscreens. Three year lifespan's not bad
for a mid-line monitor - and the fact the fix is simple and cheap
doesn't hurt either.

Too bad their Ontario service depot (BigTech north of Toronto) are a
bunch of Morons. Haven't had ANYTHING fixed first time round yet - and
when they checked out my INFOCUS DLP projector they claimed it needed
a new "brain" at a cost of close to $600. I told them "no way - send
it back". I opened it up (and found out they had NOT) and found the
safety switch on the bulb access hatch was "open". I squirted it with
some contact cleaner and it's been working ever since (going on 2
years now)
They are working on their second chance on a 6 month old 19" Acer
monitor that flickers on some computers, and works fine on others.(has
since new)
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Winston wrote:
Don Foreman wrote:

(...)
Today we can buy a TV or a
microwave for well under $100.

Which would have been ~$11.21 in 1950!

--Winston

Reminds me of what I heard a preacher say, "You can *still* buy four gallons of gasoline
for a dollar, just like you could in the fifties." The difference is in the dollar - not
the price of gasoline. In the fifties we had *silver* dollars and today a *silver*
dollar will still get you four gallons of gas.

Not only is someone stealing the silver out of our currency. They are removing the nickel
from the "nickels" and the copper from the pennies. If we still had half cents they'd be
stealing something out of them! :-(

Al

On Aug 13, 9:09*pm, Cydrome Leader wrote:

all that old stuff was made to last and be fixable. That's not the case
with modern electronics.-

I believe that is an unintended consequence of Surface Mount
Technology, specifically thermal stress cracking. I've worked on the
R&D side of electronic development and seen the shift from thru-hole
to SMT up close (literally & figuratively). In the lab a good tech can
replace almost any part with an iron or hot-air machine. But
prototypes don't suffer from environmental stresses like production
units, and temperature cycling a single hand-made example doesn't
predict the failure rate of 10,000 repaired units. I didn't hear the
dictum that consumer-grade SMT boards were to be considered
unrepairable until they had been out for several years. Higher-value
assemblies such as the medical battery packs I worked on recently are
still repaired.

Old stuff has the problem of parts availability. Often they only stock
an later model's equivalent part which isn't quite an exact
replacement. I am slowly becoming the parts maker for the old washing
machine and lawn mower.

Jim Wilkins

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:50:51 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:30:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I'm running an Acer now and it's the best comp I've had in a long
while. It's whisper quiet, the fan coming on only for heavy graphic or
processor work. I really, really love that. I need to add more memory,
though. I ended up buying a Viewsonic VA1912wb to go with it because
the Acer monitor had twice the pixel latency time and was not well
received.


The Acer stuff is pretty decent - I've got a LOT of Acer 'puters in
service, and almost as many flatscreens. Three year lifespan's not bad
for a mid-line monitor - and the fact the fix is simple and cheap
doesn't hurt either.

Verily!


Too bad their Ontario service depot (BigTech north of Toronto) are a
bunch of Morons. Haven't had ANYTHING fixed first time round yet - and
when they checked out my INFOCUS DLP projector they claimed it needed
a new "brain" at a cost of close to $600. I told them "no way - send
it back". I opened it up (and found out they had NOT) and found the
safety switch on the bulb access hatch was "open". I squirted it with
some contact cleaner and it's been working ever since (going on 2
years now)
They are working on their second chance on a 6 month old 19" Acer
monitor that flickers on some computers, and works fine on others.(has
since new)

It's really a shame that these places hire "module replacers" instead
of techies any more. What a ripoff! What odds would you give that
the "tech" had a bad "brain" in his own (or a friend's) projector?
sigh

--
Learn to value yourself, which means: to fight for your happiness.
-- Ayn Rand

On Aug 14, 9:30 pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I believe that is an unintended consequence of Surface Mount
Technology, specifically thermal stress cracking

Agreed - its a known problem, if designed PROPERLY it can be avoided -
as you say, heart pacemakers dont fail after 3 years (with monotonous
regularity)

.. I've worked on the
R&D side of electronic development and seen the shift from thru-hole
to SMT up close (literally & figuratively).

I havent - as a working tech, I don't see them till they fail -
strangely enough, at about the 3 year mark - a 3 year warranty is a
good marketing tool as the probability is there will be minimal claims
because thats how long it will last anyway.
And they keep on making the same old design "errors" after, what, 50
years of solid sate - cheap flexi bendable PCB's, low grade
electrolytics (with known failure curves) heat generating components
with inadequate heatsinking, even to the point of making the pads they
connect to too small...this ain't Rocket Science, its a way to make a
cheap product with a guaranteed short lifespan....(I think its called
Stress Engineering...)

In the lab a good tech can
replace almost any part with an iron or hot-air machine. But
prototypes don't suffer from environmental stresses like production
units, and temperature cycling a single hand-made example doesn't
predict the failure rate of 10,000 repaired units.

They don't need to - they know, from engineering knowledge, how long
it will last. Automated production machinery wil take care of the
tolerances involved and make a "perfect" product...

I didn't hear the
dictum that consumer-grade SMT boards were to be considered
unrepairable until they had been out for several years. Higher-value
assemblies such as the medical battery packs I worked on recently are
still repaired.

Old stuff has the problem of parts availability.

True - but there has been an after market, second or even third
supplier sourcing of spares for yonks - this is getting worse, I will
concede, due the decreasing model life of new consumer products,
which, strangely enough, are different inside from the previous
model....

Often they only stock an later model's equivalent part which isn't
quite an exact
replacement.

Funny that - oh, and BTW - when they can charge you more than the
cost of the appliance for a spare part, they can say they have
honoured there spares supply obligation......like, say, the $10
fusible resistor....and as for custom VLSI ic's - pick a number, any
number, bang a few zeros in there, and add exorbitant shipping and
handling to it...

I am slowly becoming the parts maker for the old washing
machine and lawn mower.

Good On Ya - thats what RCM should be, and is, all about - to develop
the skills to do this stuff ourselves...its "not economical" but we do
it for the sheer joy of beating the system.

Maybe its an age thing, but it rankles with me that perfectly good
gear has to be thrown out because a 10c part is No Longer available -
thats why I got into metalworking, so I could make the 10c part....
(its turned into another bloody obsession, which I dont need, but what
the hell...)

Regards,

Andrew VK3BFA.


Jim Wilkins

Al Patrick wrote:

Reminds me of what I heard a preacher say, "You can *still* buy four
gallons of gasoline for a dollar, just like you could in the fifties."
The difference is in the dollar - not the price of gasoline. In the
fifties we had *silver* dollars and today a *silver* dollar will still
get you four gallons of gas.

Not only is someone stealing the silver out of our currency. They are
removing the nickel from the "nickels" and the copper from the pennies.
If we still had half cents they'd be stealing something out of them! :-(

Al

Are *silver* dollars realy worth aprox $16. now?? I guess maybe I
should look up the ones I got in change back in the 50s out west
on vacation (lived in PA) and kept for the novelty then. I
suppose some of them may be sort of rare and worth more. :-)
...lew...

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 06:02:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

big snip
They are working on their second chance on a 6 month old 19" Acer
monitor that flickers on some computers, and works fine on others.(has
since new)

It's really a shame that these places hire "module replacers" instead
of techies any more. What a ripoff! What odds would you give that
the "tech" had a bad "brain" in his own (or a friend's) projector?
sigh

I've been out of the loop for several years already, but...

Motorola's new radio equipment all had to be shipped back to
the factory for the first several months. They simply
wouldn't release service info (we were an authorized
Motorola Service Center) nor any parts for them. They wanted
to see every failure at the factory to determine what was
failing and why (so the story went).

When they did finally release service info, many small parts
couldn't be had, only assemblies. Many times the schematics
were only block diagrams of these module/assemblies. Parts
pricing was such that it wasn't worth fixing a lot of the
time.

I don't think Motorola was doing anything much different
than everyone else and I sure things haven't changed much
since I got out (shrug).

If you can't get service info (schematics, operation
explained) and parts, it isn't worth fixing...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 06:09:05 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

big snip
...this ain't Rocket Science, its a way to make a
cheap product with a guaranteed short lifespan....(I think its called
Stress Engineering...)

I've always heard it called "planned obsolescence".

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:02:07 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, Lew
Hartswick quickly quoth:

Al Patrick wrote:

Reminds me of what I heard a preacher say, "You can *still* buy four
gallons of gasoline for a dollar, just like you could in the fifties."
The difference is in the dollar - not the price of gasoline. In the
fifties we had *silver* dollars and today a *silver* dollar will still
get you four gallons of gas.

Not only is someone stealing the silver out of our currency. They are
removing the nickel from the "nickels" and the copper from the pennies.
If we still had half cents they'd be stealing something out of them! :-(

Al

Are *silver* dollars realy worth aprox $16. now?? I guess maybe I
should look up the ones I got in change back in the 50s out west
on vacation (lived in PA) and kept for the novelty then. I
suppose some of them may be sort of rare and worth more. :-)

I wonder if I can turn in my Silver Certificates for silver dollars...

--
Challenges are gifts that force us to search for a new center of gravity.
Don't fight them. Just find a different way to stand.
-- Oprah Winfrey

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:00:12 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Leon
Fisk quickly quoth:

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 06:02:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

big snip
They are working on their second chance on a 6 month old 19" Acer
monitor that flickers on some computers, and works fine on others.(has
since new)

It's really a shame that these places hire "module replacers" instead
of techies any more. What a ripoff! What odds would you give that
the "tech" had a bad "brain" in his own (or a friend's) projector?
sigh

I've been out of the loop for several years already, but...

Ditto. I went through Coleman College's Computer Electronics
Technology course back in '88 and worked as a test tech for an
electronics company until '91. We were taught to test to the component
level and replace said components both at school and at Palomar
Technology. I was just getting a grasp on electronics when they were
bought by SKF. I had a chance to bail rather than working for a big
corporation (and all the bull**** that comes along with it, including
a couple hour commute to Sandy Eggo daily) so I took it. After
starting my own company and troubleshooting hardware for several
years, I discovered the fun of software troubleshooting and training.
After I built my first website, I found that even -more- fun and that
became the focus of my company. The t-shirts and glare guards came
later, during times of boredom. g

To make a short story longer, I got out of electronics in 1991-92,
shortly after getting in.


Motorola's new radio equipment all had to be shipped back to
the factory for the first several months. They simply
wouldn't release service info (we were an authorized
Motorola Service Center) nor any parts for them. They wanted
to see every failure at the factory to determine what was
failing and why (so the story went).

On one hand, I can see why they wanted to do that. On the other, since
you're authorized, why should they want to do all the work? Strange.


When they did finally release service info, many small parts
couldn't be had, only assemblies. Many times the schematics
were only block diagrams of these module/assemblies. Parts
pricing was such that it wasn't worth fixing a lot of the
time.

Suckage. My friend Bob works as a tech for Hobart (no, their
foodservice division) and has to go with assemblies most often, even
if he knows which particular component failed. Companies who charge
$100/hr+ find it cheaper for their clients to replace assemblies.
(They wouldn't lie to him, would they?


I don't think Motorola was doing anything much different
than everyone else and I sure things haven't changed much
since I got out (shrug).

I'm sure it has only gotten worse.


If you can't get service info (schematics, operation
explained) and parts, it isn't worth fixing...

Too often true! The smaller the pieces, the harder it is to get the
magic smoke back inside. sigh

--
Challenges are gifts that force us to search for a new center of gravity.
Don't fight them. Just find a different way to stand.
-- Oprah Winfrey

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 06:02:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:50:51 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:30:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I'm running an Acer now and it's the best comp I've had in a long
while. It's whisper quiet, the fan coming on only for heavy graphic or
processor work. I really, really love that. I need to add more memory,
though. I ended up buying a Viewsonic VA1912wb to go with it because
the Acer monitor had twice the pixel latency time and was not well
received.


The Acer stuff is pretty decent - I've got a LOT of Acer 'puters in
service, and almost as many flatscreens. Three year lifespan's not bad
for a mid-line monitor - and the fact the fix is simple and cheap
doesn't hurt either.

Verily!


Too bad their Ontario service depot (BigTech north of Toronto) are a
bunch of Morons. Haven't had ANYTHING fixed first time round yet - and
when they checked out my INFOCUS DLP projector they claimed it needed
a new "brain" at a cost of close to $600. I told them "no way - send
it back". I opened it up (and found out they had NOT) and found the
safety switch on the bulb access hatch was "open". I squirted it with
some contact cleaner and it's been working ever since (going on 2
years now)
They are working on their second chance on a 6 month old 19" Acer
monitor that flickers on some computers, and works fine on others.(has
since new)

It's really a shame that these places hire "module replacers"

Substitute unit replacers (the guy sleeping in the bus shelter out
front)

instead
of techies any more. What a ripoff! What odds would you give that
the "tech" had a bad "brain" in his own (or a friend's) projector?
sigh
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 06:09:05 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Aug 14, 9:30 pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I believe that is an unintended consequence of Surface Mount
Technology, specifically thermal stress cracking

Agreed - its a known problem, if designed PROPERLY it can be avoided -
as you say, heart pacemakers dont fail after 3 years (with monotonous
regularity)

. I've worked on the
R&D side of electronic development and seen the shift from thru-hole
to SMT up close (literally & figuratively).

I havent - as a working tech, I don't see them till they fail -
strangely enough, at about the 3 year mark - a 3 year warranty is a
good marketing tool as the probability is there will be minimal claims
because thats how long it will last anyway.
And they keep on making the same old design "errors" after, what, 50
years of solid sate - cheap flexi bendable PCB's, low grade
electrolytics (with known failure curves) heat generating components
with inadequate heatsinking, even to the point of making the pads they
connect to too small...this ain't Rocket Science, its a way to make a
cheap product with a guaranteed short lifespan....(I think its called
Stress Engineering...)

In the lab a good tech can
replace almost any part with an iron or hot-air machine. But
prototypes don't suffer from environmental stresses like production
units, and temperature cycling a single hand-made example doesn't
predict the failure rate of 10,000 repaired units.

They don't need to - they know, from engineering knowledge, how long
it will last. Automated production machinery wil take care of the
tolerances involved and make a "perfect" product...

I didn't hear the
dictum that consumer-grade SMT boards were to be considered
unrepairable until they had been out for several years. Higher-value
assemblies such as the medical battery packs I worked on recently are
still repaired.

Old stuff has the problem of parts availability.

True - but there has been an after market, second or even third
supplier sourcing of spares for yonks - this is getting worse, I will
concede, due the decreasing model life of new consumer products,
which, strangely enough, are different inside from the previous
model....

Often they only stock an later model's equivalent part which isn't
quite an exact
replacement.

Funny that - oh, and BTW - when they can charge you more than the
cost of the appliance for a spare part, they can say they have
honoured there spares supply obligation......like, say, the $10
fusible resistor....and as for custom VLSI ic's - pick a number, any
number, bang a few zeros in there, and add exorbitant shipping and
handling to it...

I am slowly becoming the parts maker for the old washing
machine and lawn mower.

Good On Ya - thats what RCM should be, and is, all about - to develop
the skills to do this stuff ourselves...its "not economical" but we do
it for the sheer joy of beating the system.

Maybe its an age thing, but it rankles with me that perfectly good
gear has to be thrown out because a 10c part is No Longer available -
thats why I got into metalworking, so I could make the 10c part....
(its turned into another bloody obsession, which I dont need, but what
the hell...)

Regards,

Andrew VK3BFA.


Jim Wilkins
That's why the Myford's in the corner of the garage. Don't need to
make many "unavailable" parts to make a $1500 lathe a bargain.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Aug 14, 9:09 am, wrote:
On Aug 14, 9:30 pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
I believe that is an unintended consequence of Surface Mount
Technology, specifically thermal stress cracking

Agreed - its a known problem, if designed PROPERLY it can be avoided -
as you say, heart pacemakers dont fail after 3 years (with monotonous
regularity)

Pacemakers operate at a constant temperature until they are no longer
needed...
The gear in the ambulance certainly doesn't, I've examined the
internal data logs of field returns. It's real obvious when the thing
was left out overnight in Toronto or all day in Phoenix. (They took it
well, BTW)

Critical equipment is tested in burn-in chambers. I built them for the
auto and electronics industries back in the 70's. GM parts were cycled
rapidly between -25C and +125C while operating. They had CO2 plumbing
all over the factory for their temperature-shock chambers.
Condensation makes high volume cold testing for commercial-grade
products difficult.

And they keep on making the same old design "errors" after, what, 50
years of solid sate - cheap flexi bendable PCB's, low grade
electrolytics (with known failure curves) heat generating components
with inadequate heatsinking, even to the point of making the pads they
connect to too small...

They don't need to - they know, from engineering knowledge, how long
it will last. Automated production machinery wil take care of the
tolerances involved and make a "perfect" product...

There isn't any one THEY behind this. What you describe is a
compromise between conflicting requirements. The PCB designer picks a
library of component decals that may fit someone's idea of a solution
to his particular problems rather than industry 'standards'. Whoever
bought that library probably hadn't test-driven it. Very likely the
pads were sized for packing density and manufacturability on a certain
brand of pick-and-place machine. People solve their own problems
first. For prototypes I generally extend the pads half a millimeter in
one direction so I can hand-solder a replacement without overheating
the chip.

Thermal calculations are handed off to an ME who is too busy to care.
They are really quite hard because of all the uncertainty, especially
flatness and surface finish. If the heatsink is adequate someone will
object to the cost and size. You can design for a Belleville washer
properly torqued, then see a flat washer overtightened with an air
tool later on the production line. Dilbert isn't fiction.

There aren't enough capable and willing engineers to complete the
boring end of the design process. They move or are pushed on to the
next project while co-ops or lab techs manage the details. From what
I've seen, the board designer at a contract house almost never
understands the circuit well enough to get the subtle details right
and they are under too much pressure to finish it yesterday even if
they did.

Funny that - oh, and BTW - when they can charge you more than the
cost of the appliance for a spare part, they can say they have
honoured there spares supply obligation......like, say, the $10
fusible resistor....and as for custom VLSI ic's - pick a number, any
number, bang a few zeros in there, and add exorbitant shipping and
handling to it...

www.digikey.com

I try to buy either older, repairable expensive equipment or cheap,
disposable new stuff, like a $30 DVD player. That's difficult with
cars but my welding machines all have large transformers and fairly
simple schematics. My machine tools don't even have DROs.

Custom VLSI chips are probably a good part of why electronics are
disposable. They are a real pain even at the factory. Most of the
board's logic is hidden, you don't have the internal schematic or
source code and the programmer quit years ago. I've designed a couple
myself and a year later couldn't easily reconstruct how they worked.
What's the point of troubleshooting a bad $4 chip anyway? The repair
paperwork time costs more than shipping a new board.

I am slowly becoming the parts maker for the old washing
machine and lawn mower.
Good On Ya - thats what RCM should be, and is, all about - to develop
the skills to do this stuff ourselves...its "not economical" but we do
it for the sheer joy of beating the system.

I know how I do and don't use the thing and make a simple functional
replacement rather than a full copy of a molded part. It isn't as
pretty and may need greasing or tightening or replacement more often
than the original. For example, I build up car starter contacts with
brazing rod. The brass might last only 40,000 miles but it's easy to
do over. The washing machine now has a plug to add transmission oil so
I don't have to pull the agitator, and a slinger cup on the bottom
where the oil leaks out, to keep it off the belt. The reel lawn mower
sits on tires from cheap replacement wheels turned down to fit its
hubs (messy!). The ball bearings from those wheels are part of my
sawmill, the metal hubs are baseplates for a hoist.


Maybe its an age thing, but it rankles with me that perfectly good
gear has to be thrown out because a 10c part is No Longer available -
thats why I got into metalworking, so I could make the 10c part....
(its turned into another bloody obsession, which I dont need, but what
the hell...)

Someone else's loss is our gain. Yesterday I acquired a free pool pump
motor that doesn't always start. I showed him where to whack it to
shift the armature but he wants it to run on the timer.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Jim Wilkins

Lew Hartswick wrote:
Al Patrick wrote:

Reminds me of what I heard a preacher say, "You can *still* buy four
gallons of gasoline for a dollar, just like you could in the
fifties." The difference is in the dollar - not the price of
gasoline. In the fifties we had *silver* dollars and today a
*silver* dollar will still get you four gallons of gas.

Not only is someone stealing the silver out of our currency. They are
removing the nickel from the "nickels" and the copper from the
pennies. If we still had half cents they'd be stealing something out
of them! :-(

Al

Are *silver* dollars realy worth aprox $16. now?? I guess maybe I
should look up the ones I got in change back in the 50s out west
on vacation (lived in PA) and kept for the novelty then. I
suppose some of them may be sort of rare and worth more. :-)
...lew...


http://www.apmex.com/Category/17/90_...lls__Bags.aspx

$1000 bags = $9414.40 right now and prices are way down. Now is the time to buy because
in a few weeks the metals will probably take off again and silver will be possibly go to
$20 or more per troy oz.

"spot" is supposedly $12.80 right now, but the same folks showing that are asking about
$15.80 per oz. for less than 20 oz and you still have shipping to pay.

Check gas prices in your area and multiply for four. You'll not be far off from what
APMEX is asking for an oz of silver.

Al

Cydrome Leader wrote:

Decent products and support might be why they're one of the few old
monitor makers still in business.

Back in the 90s I used a lot of them. Not as nice as my NEC multisyncs but a solid
monitor for a decent price. Glad they still are in business.

Wes