Chas Hurst wrote:

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message


Yes. Oil changes in *cars*. Cars with drain plugs that are accessible.


Accessible from where? Under the car is not accesible.

Only for someone too stupid to reach under and unscrew it!

Chas Hurst wrote:

A drain plug under a car is not accessible. Nothing mystical or rare about
at all.


So is the radiator cap "not accessible" because its under a latched
hood? I have this strange feeling like I'm in a 'Hitchhiker's Guide'
book where something doesn't exist if nobody looks directly at it.

Bob wrote:

So is the suction hose hooked to the dipstick tube or is it small enough to
be inserted through the tube down into the pan?
Bob

The dipstick tube doesn't go near the bottom of the pan, If anyone is
just sticking a hose on the dipstick tube itself, all they're going to
do is suck air.

"Bob" wrote in message
...

So is the suction hose hooked to the dipstick tube or is it small enough
to
be inserted through the tube down into the pan?
Bob


Just sucking on the dipstick tube will do no good. You need another tube to
go down inside it all the way to the bottom of the oil pan, or as close as
you can get.

That brings up an interesting question. How many dipstick tubes align with
the bottom of the oil pan? The dipstick itself only needs to read the top
oil level plus or minus a quart or so.

Lane

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:12:24 -0800, Lane lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote:

"Bob" wrote in message
...

So is the suction hose hooked to the dipstick tube or is it small enough
to
be inserted through the tube down into the pan?
Bob


Just sucking on the dipstick tube will do no good. You need another tube to
go down inside it all the way to the bottom of the oil pan, or as close as
you can get.

That brings up an interesting question. How many dipstick tubes align with
the bottom of the oil pan? The dipstick itself only needs to read the top
oil level plus or minus a quart or so.

I would guess none at all. There's no reason for the dipstick tube to even
extend past its threads in the engine block.

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:

So is the suction hose hooked to the dipstick tube or is it small enough
to
be inserted through the tube down into the pan?
Bob

The dipstick tube doesn't go near the bottom of the pan, If anyone is
just sticking a hose on the dipstick tube itself, all they're going to
do is suck air.

Exactly.... I was going to let someone dig a hole for themselves before I
brought that little point up. I don't think a hose shoved down the dipstick
tube is very likely to find its way to the lowest part of the pan either.
I'd say at best it's a half assed way of changing the oil.
Bob

TCS wrote:

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:12:24 -0800, Lane lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote:

"Bob" wrote in message
...

So is the suction hose hooked to the dipstick tube or is it small enough
to
be inserted through the tube down into the pan?
Bob


Just sucking on the dipstick tube will do no good. You need another tube to
go down inside it all the way to the bottom of the oil pan, or as close as
you can get.

That brings up an interesting question. How many dipstick tubes align with
the bottom of the oil pan? The dipstick itself only needs to read the top
oil level plus or minus a quart or so.

I would guess none at all. There's no reason for the dipstick tube to even
extend past its threads in the engine block.


Threads?
How many dipstick tubes have you ever examined?

As for length there's a very good reason for the
dipstick tube to be extended well down the dipstick:
windage. How long do you think an unsupported flexible
dipstick would last?

Tom

"Chas Hurst" wrote in message
...

"Bob" wrote in message
...

"Chas Hurst" wrote in message
...

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Chas Hurst wrote:

As noted by another poster, marine engines routinely have the
oil
removed via the dipstick.

Jolly good. However, this is rec.AUTOS.tech, and the question
concerned a car.

So what? We're talking about oil changes.

Yes. Oil changes in *cars*. Cars with drain plugs that are
accessible.

Accessible from where? Under the car is not accesible.

Really? Then you're either an idiot without the capability to use a set
of
ramps or a jack and stands, or you're too stupid to take it in and spend
$20
and have it done by someone who can..... Your choice... which is it?
Bob

I have a Benwil lift in my barn to do oil changes, and other work. Sorry,
under the car is simply not an accessible area for most car owners. Now
lets
move onto those who have a physical impairment. Or those who have a mental
impairment, such as you.

Mental impairment? Ummm... I'm not the one who called an oil drain plug
inaccessible. Changing the damned engine oil is one of the easiest
maintenance tasks a person can do.
Bob

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Chas Hurst wrote:

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message


Yes. Oil changes in *cars*. Cars with drain plugs that are accessible.


Accessible from where? Under the car is not accesible.

Only for someone too stupid to reach under and unscrew it!


I'm too big to reach under the car. A little twerp would have no problem.

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Chas Hurst wrote:

Accessible from where? Under the car is not accesible.

Only for someone too stupid to reach under and unscrew it!

I'm too big to reach under the car.

Amazing. Apparently, Mr Hurst here is not only stupid, he's also so
ignorant as never to have heard of a floor jack.

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message
.umich.edu...
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Chas Hurst wrote:

Accessible from where? Under the car is not accesible.

Only for someone too stupid to reach under and unscrew it!

I'm too big to reach under the car.

Amazing. Apparently, Mr Hurst here is not only stupid, he's also so
ignorant as never to have heard of a floor jack.

No one mentioned a floor jack. The original asshole says just reach under
the car.
You need a course in reading comprehension.
Besides that, I have a lift to do oil changes. I have a floor jack too,
actually 2.
But I shouldn't need a jack if the drain plug is accessible.

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Chas Hurst wrote:

I'm too big to reach under the car.

Amazing. Apparently, Mr Hurst here is not only stupid, he's also so
ignorant as never to have heard of a floor jack.

No one mentioned a floor jack.

And nobody mentions that you need a 7/16" socket on an 8" extension to
loosen the distributor clamp bolt on a 225 Slant-6 to set the timing,
either. It's assumed you'll use whatever which tool is necessary to gain
access (there's the magic word!) to whatever it is you wish to service.

Besides that, I have a lift to do oil changes.

Ah. So you're just arguing to hear your keyboard rattle. Yackin' off, as
it were.

But I shouldn't need a jack if the drain plug is accessible.

I fear the dictionaries don't agree with your imaginative definition of
"accessible". They say the word means "able to be accessed". There are no
pesky little asterisks stating the definition only applies if no floor
jack is required.

I also have a floor jack.

Given your comments so far in this thread, all this means is you're truly
a jackass.

On 3/3/04 6:44 PM, in article , "Chas
Hurst" wrote:


"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message
.umich.edu...
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Chas Hurst wrote:

Accessible from where? Under the car is not accesible.

Only for someone too stupid to reach under and unscrew it!

I'm too big to reach under the car.

Amazing. Apparently, Mr Hurst here is not only stupid, he's also so
ignorant as never to have heard of a floor jack.

No one mentioned a floor jack. The original asshole says just reach under
the car.
You need a course in reading comprehension.
Besides that, I have a lift to do oil changes. I have a floor jack too,
actually 2.
But I shouldn't need a jack if the drain plug is accessible.



I was with holding judgment waiting to see where this was going. Now I
know. Mr. Stern is being too kind in his assessment. Stupid doesn't quite
describe him. What a jerk!

You sound like a Limey:

and are most like speaking from yours!

Refinish King!!

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Chas Hurst wrote:

Shouldn't any large particles of "dirt" be trapped by the filter?

Remove an oil pan from an engine that's had three or four of these
dipstick tube oil "changes" sometime, then ask your question
again...if
you still have to.

As noted by another poster, marine engines routinely have the oil
removed
via the dipstick.

Jolly good. However, this is rec.AUTOS.tech, and the question concerned a
car.

Another poster found that the dipstick method was just as
good as draining.

No, another poster *stated* the dipstick method is just as good. "Found"
implies he did some science to arrive at his conclusion.

You need to review your conclusions.

I conclude that opinions are like assholes: Everyone's got one, and they
all stink.

How anally retentive:

to be angered by exploration of other Automotive engine uses, that could
lend ideas to automotive engines in cars?

Meow!

Refinish King


"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Chas Hurst wrote:

As noted by another poster, marine engines routinely have the oil
removed via the dipstick.

Jolly good. However, this is rec.AUTOS.tech, and the question
concerned a car.

So what? We're talking about oil changes.

Yes. Oil changes in *cars*. Cars with drain plugs that are accessible.

Another poster found that the dipstick method was just as
good as draining.

No, another poster *stated* the dipstick method is just as good.
"Found"
implies he did some science to arrive at his conclusion.

How do you know he didn't?

'Cause he would've mentioned it and didn't.

I conclude that opinions are like assholes: Everyone's got one, and
they
all stink.

What a refreshingly original reply.

Meow.

In reffrence to your post:

I've had to replace many engines in my time due to DIY'ers leaving the drain
plug loose, the oil filter loose and even using the wrong oil filter.

For the common person, it is not the easiest thing to do on a car. Like
plumbing in a new **** house is not the easiest thing to do in a house, for
the average homeowner!

Refinish King

"Bob" wrote in message
...

"Chas Hurst" wrote in message
...

"Bob" wrote in message
...

"Chas Hurst" wrote in message
...

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Chas Hurst wrote:

As noted by another poster, marine engines routinely have
the
oil
removed via the dipstick.

Jolly good. However, this is rec.AUTOS.tech, and the question
concerned a car.

So what? We're talking about oil changes.

Yes. Oil changes in *cars*. Cars with drain plugs that are
accessible.

Accessible from where? Under the car is not accesible.

Really? Then you're either an idiot without the capability to use a
set
of
ramps or a jack and stands, or you're too stupid to take it in and
spend
$20
and have it done by someone who can..... Your choice... which is it?
Bob

I have a Benwil lift in my barn to do oil changes, and other work.
Sorry,
under the car is simply not an accessible area for most car owners. Now
lets
move onto those who have a physical impairment. Or those who have a
mental
impairment, such as you.

Mental impairment? Ummm... I'm not the one who called an oil drain plug
inaccessible. Changing the damned engine oil is one of the easiest
maintenance tasks a person can do.
Bob

I bought the mightyVac unit:

I use it for doing differentials and transfer cases, but when I get a used
engine. It's nice to know I won't be getting it implanted on my forehead
pulling the plug before I install it.

MightyVac gives you a plastic tube that fits in the dipstick tube, and will
go to the bottom of the oil pan, in fact, if you go too far. It will not
vacum oil!

It works well, because I see it pull sludge from the pan bottom, that
pulling a plug doesn't get, and also, draining the broken engine, you
usually get a clogged line from metal pieces.

Pulling the plug puts that garbage in your drain barrel, so I put an
automatic transmission adapter on the funnel. That gets the large pieces out
when I pull the plug.

But, as a seasoned vetran, 35 years. I say that vacuming the oil isn't a bad
idea, because the pan isn't flat and pulling the plug leaves residual oil in
there too.

Refinish King


"Steve" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:

So is the suction hose hooked to the dipstick tube or is it small enough
to
be inserted through the tube down into the pan?
Bob

The dipstick tube doesn't go near the bottom of the pan, If anyone is
just sticking a hose on the dipstick tube itself, all they're going to
do is suck air.

You spoke too soon!

The dipstick is always positioned in the sump area of the pan.

Refinish King


"Bob" wrote in message
...

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:

So is the suction hose hooked to the dipstick tube or is it small
enough
to
be inserted through the tube down into the pan?
Bob

The dipstick tube doesn't go near the bottom of the pan, If anyone is
just sticking a hose on the dipstick tube itself, all they're going to
do is suck air.

Exactly.... I was going to let someone dig a hole for themselves before I
brought that little point up. I don't think a hose shoved down the
dipstick
tube is very likely to find its way to the lowest part of the pan either.
I'd say at best it's a half assed way of changing the oil.
Bob

LOL

Thanks for clearing that one up!

Refinish King

I wouldn't mind if the underinformed weren't so pompous!

"Tom" wrote in message
...
TCS wrote:

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:12:24 -0800, Lane
lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote:

"Bob" wrote in message
...

So is the suction hose hooked to the dipstick tube or is it small
enough
to
be inserted through the tube down into the pan?
Bob


Just sucking on the dipstick tube will do no good. You need another
tube to
go down inside it all the way to the bottom of the oil pan, or as close
as
you can get.

That brings up an interesting question. How many dipstick tubes align
with
the bottom of the oil pan? The dipstick itself only needs to read the
top
oil level plus or minus a quart or so.

I would guess none at all. There's no reason for the dipstick tube to
even
extend past its threads in the engine block.


Threads?
How many dipstick tubes have you ever examined?

As for length there's a very good reason for the
dipstick tube to be extended well down the dipstick:
windage. How long do you think an unsupported flexible
dipstick would last?

Tom

IOW, Ray & Tom think it is OK.

So, I will try it.

Lg


So is the suction hose hooked to the dipstick tube or is it small enough to
be inserted through the tube down into the pan?
Bob



The one I got from Griot's Garage goes down to the bottom of the
pan.....you can actually feel it hit the bottom of the pan.


-
--
Curtis Newton

http://surf.to/cnewton
ICQ: 4899169
Anti-Spam filter in place--
delete remove-this. to respond to email

Your lack of a sense of humor,

and also that you are a pompous oaf. Troubles me. Do you have a woman, and
do your relationships last anymore than a few months.

Did everyone in school kick the **** out of you?

You display the characteristics of someone, that everyone loves to hate!

Assratchet!

Refinish King

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message
.umich.edu...
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Chas Hurst wrote:

Accessible from where? Under the car is not accesible.

Only for someone too stupid to reach under and unscrew it!

I'm too big to reach under the car.

Amazing. Apparently, Mr Hurst here is not only stupid, he's also so
ignorant as never to have heard of a floor jack.

Given your comments:

I have deduced that you a

1: A pompous assmonger, that strokes his bipper uncontrollably.

2: No opinion, whether right or wrong is correct. Unless it's your opinion.

3: You are a chronic meat beater

Refinish King

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Chas Hurst wrote:

I'm too big to reach under the car.

Amazing. Apparently, Mr Hurst here is not only stupid, he's also so
ignorant as never to have heard of a floor jack.

No one mentioned a floor jack.

And nobody mentions that you need a 7/16" socket on an 8" extension to
loosen the distributor clamp bolt on a 225 Slant-6 to set the timing,
either. It's assumed you'll use whatever which tool is necessary to gain
access (there's the magic word!) to whatever it is you wish to service.

Besides that, I have a lift to do oil changes.

Ah. So you're just arguing to hear your keyboard rattle. Yackin' off, as
it were.

But I shouldn't need a jack if the drain plug is accessible.

I fear the dictionaries don't agree with your imaginative definition of
"accessible". They say the word means "able to be accessed". There are no
pesky little asterisks stating the definition only applies if no floor
jack is required.

I also have a floor jack.

Given your comments so far in this thread, all this means is you're truly
a jackass.

The dipstick tube doesn't go near the bottom of the pan, If anyone is
just sticking a hose on the dipstick tube itself, all they're going to
do is suck air.

Exactly.... I was going to let someone dig a hole for themselves before I
brought that little point up. I don't think a hose shoved down the dipstick
tube is very likely to find its way to the lowest part of the pan either.
I'd say at best it's a half assed way of changing the oil.
Bob



Guess I am not following this part.....when you put the tube down the
dipstick hole, you can feel it hit the bottom of the pan. Also, the
tube that is provided is cut at a 45 degree angle.

I can't say it is the best way to change the oil, but when I pulled
the drain plug, a few drops came out, nothing more. So, it appears to
me that it got quite a bit of the oil. The reason I got it, my Audi
A4 has the plastic underbelly that is a royal pain to get off. On my
wife's RX330, I have still been doing the drain plug method. But,
this next time, I will use the pump and then pull the drain plug to
see how much difference there is.

The main difference I noted between a pump and drain plug was, with
the Griot's pump, the oil cannot be extremely hot. They don't advise
driving more than 10-15 minutes before changing. When I do the drain
plug method (I also have the Rhino Ramps -- they are great), I usually
do the oil change after driving about 30 minutes.

Curt


-
--
Curtis Newton

http://surf.to/cnewton
ICQ: 4899169
Anti-Spam filter in place--
delete remove-this. to respond to email

You sir:

I believe take it in the bunghole by a gang!

Refinish King

"E. Meyer" wrote in message
...
On 3/3/04 6:44 PM, in article , "Chas
Hurst" wrote:


"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message
.umich.edu...
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Chas Hurst wrote:

Accessible from where? Under the car is not accesible.

Only for someone too stupid to reach under and unscrew it!

I'm too big to reach under the car.

Amazing. Apparently, Mr Hurst here is not only stupid, he's also so
ignorant as never to have heard of a floor jack.

No one mentioned a floor jack. The original asshole says just reach
under
the car.
You need a course in reading comprehension.
Besides that, I have a lift to do oil changes. I have a floor jack too,
actually 2.
But I shouldn't need a jack if the drain plug is accessible.



I was with holding judgment waiting to see where this was going. Now I
know. Mr. Stern is being too kind in his assessment. Stupid doesn't
quite
describe him. What a jerk!

"Refinish King" wrote in
message ...
LOL

Thanks for clearing that one up!

Refinish King

I wouldn't mind if the underinformed weren't so pompous!

That's the smartest thing you've said so far!
Bob

"Refinish King" wrote in
message ...
You sir:

I believe take it in the bunghole by a gang!

Refinish King

And you are one of the noisiest windbags I have never met!
Bob

In article ,
"Refinish King"
wrote:

You spoke too soon!

The dipstick is always positioned in the sump area of the pan.

Not exactly. Mid to late 80s Ford Crown Vic and Mercury Grand
Marquis with 302, engine has two distinct sumps, two drain plugs,
only one dip stick.
Any MoPar LA V-8/V-6 with a center or rear sump, dipstick is at
the front of the block (literally).
Won't work on my 340-6bbl, won't work on my 3.9 Dakota
So much for always...

Push button oil changes without having to jack the vehicle up,
put it on ramps or rack it on a hoist, totally ignores 50% of the
job which is periodic inspection for potential problems, coolant
leaks, oil leaks, check the differential, greasing the steering
components/u-joints, etc.

No wonder this group is so busy.

Steve wrote:

y_p_w wrote:



* No filter to be changed


I wouldn't OWN an automatic with no filter. Talk about pre-planned
obsolesence (failure). Sheesh.

My understanding of Honda automatic transmissions are that they
are a very different design (closer to a "wet" manual transmission),
and that they are typically as reliable as other automatic
transmissions that use filters.

The automatic transmission on my old '89 Integra was running like
new when the car was sold at 115K miles.

aaah, just for the record, I have a 1951 dodge with fluid drive (chrysler's
rejoinder to GM's hydromatic - a way of avoiding the patents) - it has no
filter, it uses 10 wt oil as the fluid and lubricant, and it's been going
fine for over 50 years. Of course it doesn't have bands and stuff. My
point here is that a filter doesn't make something last a long time by
itself.


"y_p_w" wrote in message
hlink.net...


Steve wrote:

y_p_w wrote:



* No filter to be changed


I wouldn't OWN an automatic with no filter. Talk about pre-planned
obsolesence (failure). Sheesh.

My understanding of Honda automatic transmissions are that they
are a very different design (closer to a "wet" manual transmission),
and that they are typically as reliable as other automatic
transmissions that use filters.

The automatic transmission on my old '89 Integra was running like
new when the car was sold at 115K miles.

Fumoto oil drain valves. Found at Summitracing.com
You'll never do an oil change again without them.
If you've got the ground clearance, get the one
with a nipple, and you can stick on a chunk of hose &
drain directly into an old jug. No more mess. About $15
per valve, but worth every penny.

Oh, you will still need to use ramps for small cars. Trucks
& vans tall enough to crawl under are really easy.

I find it criminal that transmission pans don't have drain plugs.
Yes, you need to remove the pan to change the fluid. It's an
ugly mess. The first time I pull the pan from any new car, I'll
put in a drain plug. This first time, I'll use a drill pump to
suck most of the tranny fluid out to minimize mess.

-Jeff Deeney-

I tried fitting a Fumoto in my Pantera, but there is not enough
clearance around the oil pan to fit one. I found the following valve
from Fram, which takes up less space:
---
http://static.summitracing.com/globa...ge/frm-sd2.jpg

Thomas

Curtis Newton wrote:

The dipstick tube doesn't go near the bottom of the pan, If anyone is
just sticking a hose on the dipstick tube itself, all they're going to
do is suck air.


Exactly.... I was going to let someone dig a hole for themselves before I
brought that little point up. I don't think a hose shoved down the dipstick
tube is very likely to find its way to the lowest part of the pan either.
I'd say at best it's a half assed way of changing the oil.
Bob




Guess I am not following this part.....when you put the tube down the
dipstick hole, you can feel it hit the bottom of the pan. Also, the
tube that is provided is cut at a 45 degree angle.


And that may indeed find the deepest part of the pan on SOME engines.
But what about the engines where the dipstick isn't located over the
deepest part of the pan but instead is over one of the "steps" in the
pan that is there to clear the subframe, steering linkage, or whatnot?
Especially if there are baffles in the pan that prevent the tube from
sliding sideways and off the "step" into the deeper part of the pan.


I agree- its a half-assed way to do it and a lot of times its going to
be the wrong half of the ass.

Refinish King wrote:

You spoke too soon!

The dipstick is always positioned in the sump area of the pan.

It only takes one counter-example to prove that statement false, and I
know of many counter-examples.

Tom wrote:

As for length there's a very good reason for the
dipstick tube to be extended well down the dipstick:
windage. How long do you think an unsupported flexible
dipstick would last?

I've got a couple that are pushing 40 years, and one that is 55. None of
them are supported below the entry point into the block.

The newer cable-type dip"sticks" may be different, but a traditional
springy dipstick doesn't require support for the few inches it sticks
into the pan.

Chas Hurst wrote:


I'm too big to reach under the car. A little twerp would have no problem.



Well, it would take a pretty darn big twerp to call a drain plug
"inaccessible."

Back when I went to work in a garage...er, excuse me, "*Service* Station",
(circa 1975 or so), when I did an oil change it was standard procedure to
completely remove the pan, clean it in the parts washer, and put it back
with a new gasket.

And even if you just stopped in for gas, you got your windows washed (front
and back), tire pressure checked, and an under-hood check (oil, water,
battery, belts, hoses), a *smile*...and a "Thank-You".


"Refinish King" wrote in
message ...

But, as a seasoned vetran, 35 years. I say that vacuming the oil isn't a
bad
idea, because the pan isn't flat and pulling the plug leaves residual oil
in
there too.

Refinish King

Steve wrote:

Tom wrote:

As for length there's a very good reason for the
dipstick tube to be extended well down the dipstick:
windage. How long do you think an unsupported flexible
dipstick would last?

I've got a couple that are pushing 40 years, and one that is 55. None of
them are supported below the entry point into the block.

Relatives are excluded from this debate!

Fluid Drive was offered in at least two different setups- one was just
a fluid coupling after the clutch and before a conventional automatic,
which allowed you to take your foot off the clutch at idle and then
step on the gas to accelerate. IIRC, most of these versions used engine
oil for the fluid coupling, so a) it was filtered and b) it got changed
every time you changed the oil.

The other was a true semi-auto and would shift from low to high range
when you let off the gas (early versions) or when an appropriate speed
was reached (later versions). But neither had bands or multi-plate
clutches bathed in fluid which shed wear particles into the lubricant
and require filtering.

Honduh's automatic is, I gather, more of an automated manual
transmission (rube goldberg device) and so doesn't shed clutch material
into the fluid either. I still wouldn't own one.


william_b_noble wrote:

aaah, just for the record, I have a 1951 dodge with fluid drive (chrysler's
rejoinder to GM's hydromatic - a way of avoiding the patents) - it has no
filter, it uses 10 wt oil as the fluid and lubricant, and it's been going
fine for over 50 years. Of course it doesn't have bands and stuff. My
point here is that a filter doesn't make something last a long time by
itself.

"Arthur Dent" wrote in message
...
Back when I went to work in a garage...er, excuse me, "*Service* Station",
(circa 1975 or so), when I did an oil change it was standard procedure to
completely remove the pan, clean it in the parts washer, and put it back
with a new gasket.


Huh? What part of the world was this. I too was a mechanics helper in those
years you mentioned working at a "service station". I had never seen this
done or ever heard of it being done for an oil change. I would never pull
an oil pan to change the oil, no reason to and too many chances of leaks
afterwards especially with the degree of experience/training involved with
those that do oil changes; not to mention crossmembers, steering linkages,
and all other manor of stuff in the way of even getting to the bolts, let
alone getting the pan out. Often it is required to undo an engine mount or
two and lift the engine to get an oil pan out, and removing other items like
starters. Even in the 70's this was true on many vehicles.

Lane

"Lane" lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote in message
...

"Arthur Dent" wrote in message
...
Back when I went to work in a garage...er, excuse me, "*Service*
Station",
(circa 1975 or so), when I did an oil change it was standard procedure
to
completely remove the pan, clean it in the parts washer, and put it back
with a new gasket.


Huh? What part of the world was this. I too was a mechanics helper in
those
years you mentioned working at a "service station". I had never seen this
done or ever heard of it being done for an oil change. I would never pull
an oil pan to change the oil, no reason to and too many chances of leaks
afterwards especially with the degree of experience/training involved with
those that do oil changes; not to mention crossmembers, steering linkages,
and all other manor of stuff in the way of even getting to the bolts, let
alone getting the pan out. Often it is required to undo an engine mount or
two and lift the engine to get an oil pan out, and removing other items
like
starters. Even in the 70's this was true on many vehicles.

Lane

Yep, I'm with you, Lane, but it makes a nice story. Like when we were kids
and had to walk ten miles each way to and from school. Not only was it cold,
but it was up hill both directions. Wind was always in your face, too,
never at your back. Remember the snow? Must have snowed at least three
feet each day. Drifts over the eaves of houses were common, too. Sigh.

Harold