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#1
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
I'm considering buying a generator. Just a portable that would keep the
refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet. Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane. AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help. But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen. I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k. I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. |
#2
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On 5/24/19 7:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I'm considering buying a generator.Â* Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet.Â* Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane.Â* AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help.Â* But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen.Â* I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k.Â* I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. Thing I wonder about is you need to keep enough gas on hand to run the thing, possibly for a good while. The gas gotta stay fresh- and storing a lot of it isn't safe. I know there are stabilizers you can add to help keep fresh- but I wonder how well they actually work- and how long they last. If you don't have a supply of gas stored and the problem/outage is widespread, local gas stations won't be able to pump gas and/or you may not be able to drive to one due to road conditions. |
#3
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On 5/24/19 6:22 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 5/24/19 7:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I'm considering buying a generator.Â* Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet.Â* Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane.Â* AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help.Â* But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen.Â* I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k.Â* I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. Thing I wonder about is you need to keep enough gas on hand to run the thing, possibly for a good while. The gas gotta stay fresh- and storing a lot of it isn't safe. I know there are stabilizers you can add to help keep fresh- but I wonder how well they actually work- and how long they last. If you don't have a supply of gas stored and the problem/outage is widespread, local gas stations won't be able to pump gas and/or you may not be able to drive to one due to road conditions. Dual fuel might not be a bad idea. |
#4
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On 5/24/2019 7:22 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 5/24/19 7:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I'm considering buying a generator.Â* Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet.Â* Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane.Â* AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help.Â* But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen.Â* I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k.Â* I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. Thing I wonder about is you need to keep enough gas on hand to run the thing, possibly for a good while. The gas gotta stay fresh- and storing a lot of it isn't safe. I know there are stabilizers you can add to help keep fresh- but I wonder how well they actually work- and how long they last. If you don't have a supply of gas stored and the problem/outage is widespread, local gas stations won't be able to pump gas and/or you may not be able to drive to one due to road conditions. My stabilized gas will last over 2 years. If can is not sealed or gas exposed at length to air the stabilizer will not last as long. It is a pain to store gas but if I had natural gas service I would run the generator on that. When I got my generator I put in a transfer panel to handle circuits I needed like the well, furnace, refrigerator and freezer. I believe they have smart systems today that can handle the whole house as long as everything is not on at once so they manage it as such. |
#5
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Fri, 24 May 2019 19:22:57 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote: If you don't have a supply of gas stored and the problem/outage is widespread, local gas stations won't be able to pump gas and/or you may not be able to drive to one due to road conditions. IIRC Florida may now require gas stations to have generators so pump perorate. I believe FL passed a law related to evacuation routes. Road conditions is another concern as you say. |
#6
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Fri, 24 May 2019 17:35:53 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2019 19:22:57 -0400, Wade Garrett wrote: If you don't have a supply of gas stored and the problem/outage is widespread, local gas stations won't be able to pump gas and/or you may not be able to drive to one due to road conditions. IIRC Florida may now require gas stations to have generators so pump perorate. I believe FL passed a law related to evacuation routes. Road conditions is another concern as you say. The problem in the long term is not having the gasoline in the ground. The generator law is more about evacuation, not living after the storm. Going into a storm I make sure I have 50 gallons of gas in cans and that the boat and all of the cars/trucks are full. I also have a 125 gallon propane tank I keep full. That 50 gallons of gas and 125 gallons of propane is still less than 2 weeks on a 5.5 KW generator. After Irma gas stations were coming back online in about 5-6 days and we had a direct hit that pretty much when straight up I-75. For the OP. the advantage of the inverter is if you really do have a modest load, the generator can throttle down to handle the actual load and not have to turn 3600 RPM no matter what the load is. With light loads, gasoline lasts a lot longer. I was burning 0.5 GPH gasoline and 0.8 GPH on Propane. with my old school generator. Inverter guys were bragging about a couple gallons a day with their 2kw Honda.. |
#7
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On 5/24/2019 8:09 PM, Frank wrote:
It is a pain to store gas but if I had natural gas service I would run the generator on that. When I got my generator I put in a transfer panel to handle circuits I needed like the well, furnace, refrigerator and freezer.Â* I believe they have smart systems today that can handle the whole house as long as everything is not on at once so they manage it as such. I do have natural gas but I've not seen any small generators that use it. Well, one, but it had terrible reviews. I have a gas line on the lanai for the grill so it would be easy to use a connector for a generator. I'd keep minimal gas on hand for the occasional outage but for a big storm, there is enough notice to stock up. |
#8
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Fri, 24 May 2019 19:09:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I'm considering buying a generator. Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet. Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane. AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help. But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen. I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k. I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. An inverter generator can be a lot quieter than a regular one because it does not need to run at full speed under light load. Don't know about in Florida, but up here you don't get a decent inverter unit for under a grand. For your use you don't NEED an inverter unit - but they sure are nice for camping etc where you want things quiet. GOOD inverters are also better for sensitive electronics. |
#9
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
Inverter guys were bragging about a couple gallons a day with their 2kw Honda.. Everyone has different needs - if I could get by on 110 v 3000 watts - I certainly have an inverter generator. I need 230 volts and about 5 kw and I haven't yet stumbled across one that I can afford - so I'll hang in there with my 20 year old Honda EM5000 ... .. not sure if the inverter output wave-form has any affect on electronics ? John T. |
#10
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Fri, 24 May 2019 19:22:57 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote: On 5/24/19 7:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I'm considering buying a generator.* Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet.* Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane.* AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help.* But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen.* I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k.* I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. Thing I wonder about is you need to keep enough gas on hand to run the thing, possibly for a good while. The gas gotta stay fresh- and storing a lot of it isn't safe. I know there are stabilizers you can add to help keep fresh- but I wonder how well they actually work- and how long they last. If you don't have a supply of gas stored and the problem/outage is widespread, local gas stations won't be able to pump gas and/or you may not be able to drive to one due to road conditions. ANd there is a difference between inverter and non-inverter in that respect??? Don't think so. My non-inverter unit runs on gasoline, propane, or natural gas. You can get tri-fuelinverter units too. contact these guys: https://www.motorsnorkel.com/generators.html They handle Yamaha inverter units that run on tri-fuel. They alsomade the conversion kit that's on my Champion. |
#11
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
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#12
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
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#14
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
In Ed Pawlowski writes:
I have to do some more checking, but mostly the fridge is the big value thing to keep going. Gas range and grill takes care of cooking, city water. Be _very_ careful when measring the electrical usage of "must run" items (and spec'ing out the generator). a: Many, especially those with motors such as water (well/sump) pumps and air conditioners and... refrigerators (but see next point) have much higher "starting surge" power draw requirements than the label list. Similarly, using something like a Kill-A-Watt meter (a really great device, about $30) won't necessarily tell you about the starting issue b: frost free refrigerators draw a _LOT_ of power when they're running the auto-defrost cycle. In my own system the power demand when just cooling down is less than 100 watts. HOWEVER, when it's i defrost mode, it's more like 500. And again, unless you happen to measure it at just the right time, you won't know this. c: Oh, and a VERY big annoyance with a big chunk of modern gas stoves/ovens. They're often "elctric start", so to speak. The stoves tend to be a spark ignitor whic doesn't draw much, but.. BUT, the ovens are often a problem. Many if them use an electrical glow plate to ignite the gas, and it can draw 500 watts. And what's even worse is that... they'll often stay on, pulling all that electricity ... the entire time the over flame is lit. -- __________________________________________________ ___ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] |
#15
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Fri, 24 May 2019 23:11:42 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote: In article , says... I'm considering buying a generator. Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet. Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane. AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help. But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen. I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k. I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. I would not worry one way or the other about an inverter or not for the equipment no matter what the hype is. I run a large TV and computers on a regular 5 kw generator all the time during the power outages. It will burn though a lot of gas if left running. The main thing is how much gas do you want to use and store. The inverters usually use less , especially if not loaded too much. I think Honda makes an inverter generator that is about 2 kw for right at $ 1000. The inverter burns less at low load. Af full power there's not much difference - if they both have OHV engines. |
#16
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Fri, 24 May 2019 23:44:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/24/2019 11:11 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... I'm considering buying a generator. Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet. Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane. AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help. But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen. I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k. I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. I would not worry one way or the other about an inverter or not for the equipment no matter what the hype is. I run a large TV and computers on a regular 5 kw generator all the time during the power outages. It will burn though a lot of gas if left running. The main thing is how much gas do you want to use and store. The inverters usually use less , especially if not loaded too much. I think Honda makes an inverter generator that is about 2 kw for right at $ 1000. I have to do some more checking, but mostly the fridge is the big value thing to keep going. Gas range and grill takes care of cooking, city water. A natural gas house should run fine on a little 2kw inverter. Look at any 240v (2 pole) breakers in the panel because those pieces of equipment are not going to work. The other issue is trying to put transfer equipment on your panel will be tough too since you will only be able to feed one phase. You also would have to be sure all 240v breakers were tripped. You might find it easier to just run on cords. I suppose you could put in transfer equipment for a few circuits pretty cheaply. It might be as easy as a 4" square box with 4 "3 way" switches in it to move 4 circuits. |
#17
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On 5/24/19 7:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I'm considering buying a generator.Â* Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet.Â* Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane.Â* AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help.Â* But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen. I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k.Â* I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. Refrigerator Kitchen range Washer Dryer Dishwasher Water heater Modem/Router/Computer/TV/Cable box Cellphone charging station Lighting |
#18
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On 5/24/2019 9:15 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/24/2019 8:09 PM, Frank wrote: It is a pain to store gas but if I had natural gas service I would run the generator on that. When I got my generator I put in a transfer panel to handle circuits I needed like the well, furnace, refrigerator and freezer.Â* I believe they have smart systems today that can handle the whole house as long as everything is not on at once so they manage it as such. I do have natural gas but I've not seen any small generators that use it.Â* Well, one, but it had terrible reviews.Â* I have a gas line on the lanai for the grill so it would be easy to use a connector for a generator. I'd keep minimal gas on hand for the occasional outage but for a big storm, there is enough notice to stock up. I don't know anything about those that use natural gas but do know a guy that has one but his whole house is connected and it is a big house. Might also mention that mine is pretty noisy and if I bought another would look for something quieter. Someone told me that if you want to save money you go to the store after a big storm and get a returned generator. |
#19
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On 5/25/2019 12:29 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2019 23:44:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 5/24/2019 11:11 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... I'm considering buying a generator. Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet. Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane. AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help. But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen. I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k. I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. I would not worry one way or the other about an inverter or not for the equipment no matter what the hype is. I run a large TV and computers on a regular 5 kw generator all the time during the power outages. It will burn though a lot of gas if left running. The main thing is how much gas do you want to use and store. The inverters usually use less , especially if not loaded too much. I think Honda makes an inverter generator that is about 2 kw for right at $ 1000. I have to do some more checking, but mostly the fridge is the big value thing to keep going. Gas range and grill takes care of cooking, city water. A natural gas house should run fine on a little 2kw inverter. Look at any 240v (2 pole) breakers in the panel because those pieces of equipment are not going to work. The other issue is trying to put transfer equipment on your panel will be tough too since you will only be able to feed one phase. You also would have to be sure all 240v breakers were tripped. You might find it easier to just run on cords. I suppose you could put in transfer equipment for a few circuits pretty cheaply. It might be as easy as a 4" square box with 4 "3 way" switches in it to move 4 circuits. Â* My 5.5k B&S unit will run everything but my electric water heater ... I have it set up to feed the main panel from the shop panel , including 240V stuff . We do minimize loads when we have to use the generator , and I usually have around 10 gallons of non-ethanol gas on hand for the yard equipment plus the generator tank is kept filled with stabilized non-ethanol gas - drained and replaced annually unless I've used the unit enough to burn a full tank , which is seldom . Out here in the woods we often lose power for a minute or two during really nasty weather but I've never needed to run ours for more than a day or two . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! |
#20
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On 5/24/2019 7:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I'm considering buying a generator.Â* Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet.Â* Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane.Â* AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help.Â* But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen.Â* I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k.Â* I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. I have a Harbor Freight Predator 7000/8750 (watts/peak). During a 40 hour outage in January, I ran it with the old, treated gasoline. It ran ok, but I had to close the choke a bit to make it happy and run smooth. Then I had to go out to get more gas. After putting in the new gas, it ran perfectly with the choke completely off, as it should. When I built the house 10 years ago, the electrical guy (a real jerk) put in a separate panel for the generator. I should have had him put in one of the mechanical interlocks in the main panel and eliminate the separate generator panel, but I didn't really think of it. I have now installed the mechanical interlock, so everything can be run from the generator. And that's what I used in January for the outage. The only problem with the mechanical interlock is that you don't know when power had been restored ... no street lights here, but I did happen to see a light in the neighbor's house, but that's pretty far away. BTW, there are "reverse alarms" available to detect power returned and sound an alarm. I have not installed one of these yet. I did install a generator conversion kit to allow use with propane (or natural gas). I have a 500 gallon propane tank (no ng in my rural area). When my HVAC guy was here, we tried running the AC on the generator on propane. The AC was not happy. But, I did not properly adjust the propane flow valve at that time, so I will be trying that again after the adjustment procedure. Sorry for being so verbose. |
#21
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On 5/25/2019 7:39 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 5/25/2019 12:29 AM, wrote: On Fri, 24 May 2019 23:44:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 5/24/2019 11:11 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... I'm considering buying a generator.Â* Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet.Â* Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane.Â* AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help.Â* But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen.Â* I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k.Â* I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. I would not worry one way or the other about an inverter or not for the equipment no matter what the hype is.Â* I run a large TV and computers on a regular 5 kw generator all the time during the power outages.Â* It will burn though a lot of gas if left running. The main thing is how much gas do you want to use and store.Â* The inverters usually use less , especially if not loaded too much. I think Honda makes an inverter generator that is about 2 kw for right at $ 1000. I have to do some more checking, but mostly the fridge is the big value thing to keep going.Â* Gas range and grill takes care of cooking, city water. A natural gas house should run fine on a little 2kw inverter. Look at any 240v (2 pole) breakers in the panel because those pieces of equipment are not going to work. The other issue is trying to put transfer equipment on your panel will be tough too since you will only be able to feed one phase. You also would have to be sure all 240v breakers were tripped. You might find it easier to just run on cords. I suppose you could put in transfer equipment for a few circuits pretty cheaply. It might be as easy as a 4" square box with 4 "3 way" switches in it to move 4 circuits. Â* My 5.5k B&S unit will run everything but my electric water heater ... I have it set up to feed the main panel from the shop panel , including 240V stuff . We do minimize loads when we have to use the generator , and I usually have around 10 gallons of non-ethanol gas on hand for the yard equipment plus the generator tank is kept filled with stabilized non-ethanol gas - drained and replaced annually unless I've used the unit enough to burn a full tank , which is seldom . Out here in the woods we often lose power for a minute or two during really nasty weather but I've never needed to run ours for more than a day or two . Sounds just like what I have with the exception of going into the main panel. Same generator and same amount of gas. Use today does not extend beyond a day or two but 20 or so years ago I recall a summer outage lasting a week. Summers you cannot miss a day or two without AC or water but in the winter more than 2 days without heat are what it took me to buy a generator. In Florida, AC would probably bemost needed. |
#22
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 10:16:17 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2019 19:09:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I'm considering buying a generator. Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet. Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane. AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help. But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen. I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k. I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. An inverter generator can be a lot quieter than a regular one because it does not need to run at full speed under light load. Don't know about in Florida, but up here you don't get a decent inverter unit for under a grand. For your use you don't NEED an inverter unit - but they sure are nice for camping etc where you want things quiet. GOOD inverters are also better for sensitive electronics. In addition to running quieter most of the time, an inverter one should use less fuel too. But they are more expensive and have more electronics that can fail too. I'd probably go with a regular type, but the noise factor is worth considering. That also depends on how close you are to neighbors, if you care, what they have, etc. Since Ed has nat gas available, I would get one that will run on that. There are companies that sell conversion kits for the common engines, ones that will make it tri-fuel, so it will run on gas, nat gas or propane and you can even switch back and forth. That way if you want to take it elsewhere and run it on gasoline, you can. For ~$1000 should be able to get a 5KW gen and conversion kit. I would also do it right, get an Interlockit or better yet similar from the maker of your panel, if available and an inlet. That way you can very easily connect the generator when needed and power anything in the house you choose, without cords and all that goes with that. 5KW should be fine for typical house, as long as you don't expect to run big loads like AC, electric ovens, WH, etc. |
#23
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Sat, 25 May 2019 06:39:32 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote: On 5/25/2019 12:29 AM, wrote: On Fri, 24 May 2019 23:44:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 5/24/2019 11:11 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... I'm considering buying a generator. Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet. Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane. AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help. But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen. I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k. I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. I would not worry one way or the other about an inverter or not for the equipment no matter what the hype is. I run a large TV and computers on a regular 5 kw generator all the time during the power outages. It will burn though a lot of gas if left running. The main thing is how much gas do you want to use and store. The inverters usually use less , especially if not loaded too much. I think Honda makes an inverter generator that is about 2 kw for right at $ 1000. I have to do some more checking, but mostly the fridge is the big value thing to keep going. Gas range and grill takes care of cooking, city water. A natural gas house should run fine on a little 2kw inverter. Look at any 240v (2 pole) breakers in the panel because those pieces of equipment are not going to work. The other issue is trying to put transfer equipment on your panel will be tough too since you will only be able to feed one phase. You also would have to be sure all 240v breakers were tripped. You might find it easier to just run on cords. I suppose you could put in transfer equipment for a few circuits pretty cheaply. It might be as easy as a 4" square box with 4 "3 way" switches in it to move 4 circuits. Â* My 5.5k B&S unit will run everything but my electric water heater ... I have it set up to feed the main panel from the shop panel , including 240V stuff . We do minimize loads when we have to use the generator , and I usually have around 10 gallons of non-ethanol gas on hand for the yard equipment plus the generator tank is kept filled with stabilized non-ethanol gas - drained and replaced annually unless I've used the unit enough to burn a full tank , which is seldom . Out here in the woods we often lose power for a minute or two during really nasty weather but I've never needed to run ours for more than a day or two . I have a boat so the gas won't get old. I have 10 jerry cans. All I turned off (at the panel) when I hooked up the 5.5kw was the water heater. We kept the central A/C turned off at the thermostat and didn't use the range or dryer. Other than that we used everything else pretty much normally, just turning off things when we weren't using them. Life was really pretty normal. I had 2 refrigerators going, 2 well pumps, pool pump and the mini split in the bedroom along with my general lighting load. We did have to swap the pool for the bedroom A/C (A/C at night, pool during the day) and occasionally I would get a trip if too many things were in locked rotor at the same time. I could turn off the well pumps, let the fridges start then turn the well back on. I ran the best part of 2 weeks that way. If we had natural gas that 5.5 would have been plenty for everything but the central air. In fact the 2KW Ed is talking about probably would have been plenty if I didn't have 2 well pumps and a pool pump running. (240v loads) |
#24
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Sat, 25 May 2019 08:22:18 -0400, Art Todesco
wrote: On 5/24/2019 7:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I'm considering buying a generator.Â* Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet.Â* Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane.Â* AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help.Â* But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen.Â* I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k.Â* I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. I have a Harbor Freight Predator 7000/8750 (watts/peak). During a 40 hour outage in January, I ran it with the old, treated gasoline. It ran ok, but I had to close the choke a bit to make it happy and run smooth. Then I had to go out to get more gas. After putting in the new gas, it ran perfectly with the choke completely off, as it should. When I built the house 10 years ago, the electrical guy (a real jerk) put in a separate panel for the generator. I should have had him put in one of the mechanical interlocks in the main panel and eliminate the separate generator panel, but I didn't really think of it. I have now installed the mechanical interlock, so everything can be run from the generator. And that's what I used in January for the outage. The only problem with the mechanical interlock is that you don't know when power had been restored ... no street lights here, but I did happen to see a light in the neighbor's house, but that's pretty far away. BTW, there are "reverse alarms" available to detect power returned and sound an alarm. I have not installed one of these yet. I did install a generator conversion kit to allow use with propane (or natural gas). I have a 500 gallon propane tank (no ng in my rural area). When my HVAC guy was here, we tried running the AC on the generator on propane. The AC was not happy. But, I did not properly adjust the propane flow valve at that time, so I will be trying that again after the adjustment procedure. Sorry for being so verbose. If you have a "smart meter" you can just look at that. If it has a display, the power is back. |
#25
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 8:49:42 AM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 5/25/2019 7:39 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 5/25/2019 12:29 AM, wrote: On Fri, 24 May 2019 23:44:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 5/24/2019 11:11 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... I'm considering buying a generator.Â* Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet.Â* Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane.Â* AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help.Â* But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen.Â* I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k.Â* I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. I would not worry one way or the other about an inverter or not for the equipment no matter what the hype is.Â* I run a large TV and computers on a regular 5 kw generator all the time during the power outages.Â* It will burn though a lot of gas if left running. The main thing is how much gas do you want to use and store.Â* The inverters usually use less , especially if not loaded too much. I think Honda makes an inverter generator that is about 2 kw for right at $ 1000. I have to do some more checking, but mostly the fridge is the big value thing to keep going.Â* Gas range and grill takes care of cooking, city water. A natural gas house should run fine on a little 2kw inverter. Look at any 240v (2 pole) breakers in the panel because those pieces of equipment are not going to work. The other issue is trying to put transfer equipment on your panel will be tough too since you will only be able to feed one phase. You also would have to be sure all 240v breakers were tripped. You might find it easier to just run on cords. I suppose you could put in transfer equipment for a few circuits pretty cheaply. It might be as easy as a 4" square box with 4 "3 way" switches in it to move 4 circuits. Â* My 5.5k B&S unit will run everything but my electric water heater ... I have it set up to feed the main panel from the shop panel , including 240V stuff . We do minimize loads when we have to use the generator , and I usually have around 10 gallons of non-ethanol gas on hand for the yard equipment plus the generator tank is kept filled with stabilized non-ethanol gas - drained and replaced annually unless I've used the unit enough to burn a full tank , which is seldom . Out here in the woods we often lose power for a minute or two during really nasty weather but I've never needed to run ours for more than a day or two . Sounds just like what I have with the exception of going into the main panel. Same generator and same amount of gas. Use today does not extend beyond a day or two but 20 or so years ago I recall a summer outage lasting a week. Summers you cannot miss a day or two without AC or water but in the winter more than 2 days without heat are what it took me to buy a generator. In Florida, AC would probably bemost needed. Ed could get a window unit for $125 to have on hand if needed to cool a room or two in an emergency. If you had a hurricane and power is out for a week, that would sure make a huge difference in comfort, especially sleeping at night. |
#26
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
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#27
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 9:50:01 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... I have to do some more checking, but mostly the fridge is the big value thing to keep going. Gas range and grill takes care of cooking, city water. By living in Florida I guess that you do not have to worry too much about keeping warm or pipes freesing in the winter and bursting. You power outages would probably be mostly in the warm parts of the year. So you would just need to run a generator for say an hour every couple of hours . You can go a lot longer than that, unless you need to use something that runs on electric. A fridge that's not being opened can easily go for 6, 12 hours or more. You can open it less frequently by putting frequently used stuff, eg beverages, in a cooler with some ice. The basement freezer here went a week during Sandy and I didn't lose anything. I did put extra containers of water in there when the storm was coming, to add additional ice to increase the capacity. And after about 4 days, I removed them and put in bags of ice a couple times. At the end of a full week, stuff had partially defrosted, but it was all still good. With gas to cook with an no water problems you are good to go for a while. Where I am at , I have a heatpump so do no try to power that. I do have a wood stove for heat if needed. Also have one of the propane camp stoves to cook with. Being on a well for water, I need a generator large enough to power that. Mentioned it before, just try to use the ethanol free gas on whatever you get. Run the generator empty and drain the tank if you do not plan on using it for a few weeks or longer. I have only used my generator a few times so keep it drained of gas. It has started with one or two pulls of the cord. I have a tiller that I only use once or twice a year. I let it run empty and the next year fill it with gas and it will fire off with just one or two pulles of the cord. In the past I had left some of that ethanol gas in the generator for about 2 months and it gummed up the works and would not start.Had to clean out the carborator each time. Buying a spare carburetor and having it on hand would be a good plan too. There are cheap ones for many engines on Ebay. But Ed has nat gas and for sure I'd get a generator where there is a conversion kit so that it can run on nat gas. One thing to keep in mind there is that on nat gas the max output will be somewhat less, need to take that into account when sizing. |
#28
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
The only problem with the mechanical interlock is that you don't know when power had been restored ... no street lights here, but I did happen to see a light in the neighbor's house, but that's pretty far away. BTW, there are "reverse alarms" available to detect power returned and sound an alarm. I have not installed one of these yet. " Power-Back " https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Cont.../dp/B003KREORA I just installed one last year - no problems - and the screeching loud noise would probably even wake me in the night. Keep earplugs handy to get to the panel to turn it off ! ... it's painfully loud & an awful screech. John T. |
#29
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 10:05:49 AM UTC-4, wrote:
The only problem with the mechanical interlock is that you don't know when power had been restored ... no street lights here, but I did happen to see a light in the neighbor's house, but that's pretty far away. BTW, there are "reverse alarms" available to detect power returned and sound an alarm. I have not installed one of these yet. " Power-Back " https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Cont.../dp/B003KREORA I just installed one last year - no problems - and the screeching loud noise would probably even wake me in the night. Keep earplugs handy to get to the panel to turn it off ! .. it's painfully loud & an awful screech. John T. I didn't know these existed. Looks like it uses an inductive pickup to determine when power is present on the incoming conductors? Good to know they exist. Lucky here, there is a street light in front of my house, only one on the whole street. How that came to be, no idea. But that's far from perfect, at night you have to keep checking and it's useless during daytime. |
#30
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
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#31
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On 5/25/2019 6:38 AM, Marius Josipovic wrote:
On 5/24/19 7:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I'm considering buying a generator.Â* Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet.Â* Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane.Â* AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help.Â* But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen. I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k.Â* I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. Refrigerator Kitchen range Washer Dryer Dishwasher Water heater Modem/Router/Computer/TV/Cable box Cellphone charging station Lighting Hot water is gas. Cooking is gas but would lose the oven. Can easily go two weeks with laundry. Biggest single load is the refrigerator, maybe a room AC to sleep. |
#32
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
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#33
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Sat, 25 May 2019 05:54:39 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 10:16:17 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote: On Fri, 24 May 2019 19:09:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I'm considering buying a generator. Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet. Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane. AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help. But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen. I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k. I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. An inverter generator can be a lot quieter than a regular one because it does not need to run at full speed under light load. Don't know about in Florida, but up here you don't get a decent inverter unit for under a grand. For your use you don't NEED an inverter unit - but they sure are nice for camping etc where you want things quiet. GOOD inverters are also better for sensitive electronics. In addition to running quieter most of the time, an inverter one should use less fuel too. But they are more expensive and have more electronics that can fail too. I'd probably go with a regular type, but the noise factor is worth considering. That also depends on how close you are to neighbors, if you care, what they have, etc. Since Ed has nat gas available, I would get one that will run on that. There are companies that sell conversion kits for the common engines, ones that will make it tri-fuel, so it will run on gas, nat gas or propane and you can even switch back and forth. That way if you want to take it elsewhere and run it on gasoline, you can. For ~$1000 should be able to get a 5KW gen and conversion kit. I would also do it right, get an Interlockit or better yet similar from the maker of your panel, if available and an inlet. That way you can very easily connect the generator when needed and power anything in the house you choose, without cords and all that goes with that. 5KW should be fine for typical house, as long as you don't expect to run big loads like AC, electric ovens, WH, etc. More like $100. I got mine from US Carburetion and it was a tad over $100. Installing it is easy. You remove the carb, swap out the studs for longer ones, put the venturi plate in for the gas, replace the carb and mount the regulator. I probably spent close top an hour doing it but I could do another one in 15 minutes now that I understand what needs to be done. The kits for the little inverters mount the regulator remotely since there is no good place to put it on the generator. There are actually 2 regulators, the demand regulator for the engine itself and another one on the supply line to get the input pressure right but you might not need that one on a natural gas setup. I actually bought 2 of them for propane. One is on the big built in tank line and I have another one so I can run off a 20# portable tank. All in I was closer to $200 with all of the extra regulators and hoses. It is handy to have the portable capability tho if I want to use the generator away from the house and still not screw with gasoline. Once you use propane, you will wonder why you ever messed with gas. It starts easier and you do not need to worry about getting every last drop of gas out of the system when you put it away. |
#34
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 11:31:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2019 05:54:39 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote: On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 10:16:17 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote: On Fri, 24 May 2019 19:09:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I'm considering buying a generator. Just a portable that would keep the refrigerator going, maybe the TV or internet. Nothing of higher power demand and only for a few hours a day if power goes out after a hurricane. AFAIK, this is not a really bad area for that and out lines are underground so that help. But stuff happens. I'm in Florida now and they do get hurricanes. The inverters run a couple of hundred more from what I've seen. I'd like to keep it down to less than $1k. I'm thinking 2,000 to 3000 watts should handle my needs. An inverter generator can be a lot quieter than a regular one because it does not need to run at full speed under light load. Don't know about in Florida, but up here you don't get a decent inverter unit for under a grand. For your use you don't NEED an inverter unit - but they sure are nice for camping etc where you want things quiet. GOOD inverters are also better for sensitive electronics. In addition to running quieter most of the time, an inverter one should use less fuel too. But they are more expensive and have more electronics that can fail too. I'd probably go with a regular type, but the noise factor is worth considering. That also depends on how close you are to neighbors, if you care, what they have, etc. Since Ed has nat gas available, I would get one that will run on that. There are companies that sell conversion kits for the common engines, ones that will make it tri-fuel, so it will run on gas, nat gas or propane and you can even switch back and forth. That way if you want to take it elsewhere and run it on gasoline, you can. For ~$1000 should be able to get a 5KW gen and conversion kit. I would also do it right, get an Interlockit or better yet similar from the maker of your panel, if available and an inlet. That way you can very easily connect the generator when needed and power anything in the house you choose, without cords and all that goes with that. 5KW should be fine for typical house, as long as you don't expect to run big loads like AC, electric ovens, WH, etc. More like $100. The $1000 number was for a generator and a conversion kit. I got mine from US Carburetion and it was a tad over $100. Installing it is easy. You remove the carb, swap out the studs for longer ones, put the venturi plate in for the gas, replace the carb and mount the regulator. I probably spent close top an hour doing it but I could do another one in 15 minutes now that I understand what needs to be done. The kits for the little inverters mount the regulator remotely since there is no good place to put it on the generator. There are actually 2 regulators, the demand regulator for the engine itself and another one on the supply line to get the input pressure right but you might not need that one on a natural gas setup. I actually bought 2 of them for propane. One is on the big built in tank line and I have another one so I can run off a 20# portable tank. All in I was closer to $200 with all of the extra regulators and hoses. It is handy to have the portable capability tho if I want to use the generator away from the house and still not screw with gasoline. Once you use propane, you will wonder why you ever messed with gas. It starts easier and you do not need to worry about getting every last drop of gas out of the system when you put it away. |
#35
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
In article , Ed Pawlowski
wrote: Hot water is gas. Cooking is gas but would lose the oven. Can easily go two weeks with laundry. Biggest single load is the refrigerator, maybe a room AC to sleep. Ed- The Honda EU2000i would seem to be the ideal generator for you. The only drawback would be its small gas tank. Other inverter generators in its class are less efficient because they may not throttle-down when lightly loaded. And they are loud compared to the Honda. (Apparently some use a different method of measuring their sound level.) I have the Honda EU6500i. It probably uses more gas than the EU2000i, but has more power and a larger gas tank. With my light load, it will run at least 16 hours. My refrigerator will keep ice solid for 8 hours, so I turn the generator off when sleeping. I keep ten gallons of aviation fuel on hand. It seems to hold up quite well. After using the generator, I turn off the fuel valve and run it dry. Fred |
#36
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 10:31:28 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/25/2019 1:29 AM, wrote: On Fri, 24 May 2019 23:44:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I have to do some more checking, but mostly the fridge is the big value thing to keep going. Gas range and grill takes care of cooking, city water. A natural gas house should run fine on a little 2kw inverter. Look at any 240v (2 pole) breakers in the panel because those pieces of equipment are not going to work. The other issue is trying to put transfer equipment on your panel will be tough too since you will only be able to feed one phase. You also would have to be sure all 240v breakers were tripped I'm going to use cords for now. I don't know how often the power may go out but if only a day or two a year, no big deal. If for a week at a time, you can be sure I'll do more. I was never able to justify a generator for 53 years but here, I may. I've used cords and I've used the inlet and panel approach. Once you do the inlet and panel way, you forget about cords. Huge difference. You just open the large breakers on things you either don't need to run at all or will selectively manage. Then the rest of the house is powered and it's like living normally. TVs work, radios work all the light switches around the house work, bathroom fans, fridge, freezer you need something from another room, want to check on something in the basement, turn on the light switch, it's lit. Want to go out in the car, garage is powered, it's lit and the automatic door opens. You don't have much need for heat down there, probably don't have a furnace, but if you did, that's powered and so is a gas water heater if it's a newer one that needs AC to ignite, etc. It's close to having the whole house powered like normal, like what you'd have with a standby generator. Actually it's BETTER than most of those, because typically they use a separate panel that they rewire whatever circuits that you decide at installation need to be powered. With the panel interlock approach, you can power ANYTHING, as long as you have sufficient capacity. You choose which breakers to turn on during the power outage. The inlet/panel approach is probably ~$200 if you do it yourself. |
#37
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 11:29:24 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... I'm going to use cords for now. I don't know how often the power may go out but if only a day or two a year, no big deal. If for a week at a time, you can be sure I'll do more. I was never able to justify a generator for 53 years but here, I may. Just a word of caution, make sure the exhaust of the generator can not get back in the house where you run the cord. My generator goes to a dedicated socket on the outside of the house so all windows and doors are closed. That's another advantage to the panel/inlet approach. Just one cord and it can go to an inlet that's outside. |
#38
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Sat, 25 May 2019 07:06:17 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 9:50:01 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... I have to do some more checking, but mostly the fridge is the big value thing to keep going. Gas range and grill takes care of cooking, city water. By living in Florida I guess that you do not have to worry too much about keeping warm or pipes freesing in the winter and bursting. You power outages would probably be mostly in the warm parts of the year. So you would just need to run a generator for say an hour every couple of hours . You can go a lot longer than that, unless you need to use something that runs on electric. A fridge that's not being opened can easily go for 6, 12 hours or more. You can open it less frequently by putting frequently used stuff, eg beverages, in a cooler with some ice. The basement freezer here went a week during Sandy and I didn't lose anything. I did put extra containers of water in there when the storm was coming, to add additional ice to increase the capacity. And after about 4 days, I removed them and put in bags of ice a couple times. At the end of a full week, stuff had partially defrosted, but it was all still good. That is a good point about the thermal mass. I pack every nook and cranny of the fridge and freezer with bottled water putting it in a little at a time over the week before a storm. Then you have that thermal mass and when it is all over you still have the water. With gas to cook with an no water problems you are good to go for a while. Where I am at , I have a heatpump so do no try to power that. I do have a wood stove for heat if needed. Also have one of the propane camp stoves to cook with. Being on a well for water, I need a generator large enough to power that. Mentioned it before, just try to use the ethanol free gas on whatever you get. Run the generator empty and drain the tank if you do not plan on using it for a few weeks or longer. I have only used my generator a few times so keep it drained of gas. It has started with one or two pulls of the cord. I have a tiller that I only use once or twice a year. I let it run empty and the next year fill it with gas and it will fire off with just one or two pulles of the cord. In the past I had left some of that ethanol gas in the generator for about 2 months and it gummed up the works and would not start.Had to clean out the carborator each time. Buying a spare carburetor and having it on hand would be a good plan too. There are cheap ones for many engines on Ebay. But Ed has nat gas and for sure I'd get a generator where there is a conversion kit so that it can run on nat gas. One thing to keep in mind there is that on nat gas the max output will be somewhat less, need to take that into account when sizing. I really don't see that. What happens is fuel consumption goes way up. 5.5WW generator I used a GE convection oven for a load http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Load.jpg This is a convection oven running on propane. volts 230, amps 23.48, watts 5402.7 http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Onpropane.jpg This is on gasoline http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Ongasoline.jpg Same output The wave form stayed the same too. http://gfretwell.com/Propaneproject/Waveform.jpg I also doubt there is enough distortion in that output to show up in any electronics as a problem. I wonder if the inverters are even true sine wave and not a stepped wave deal, particularly the ones from China. (Harbor Fright) |
#39
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gas types, was: Inverter generator Do I need that?
In Fred McKenzie writes:
I keep ten gallons of aviation fuel on hand. It seems to hold up quite well. After using the generator, I turn off the fuel valve and run it dry. Don't know if this is your Master Plan For World Domination, but there are versions of avgas still readily available that contain... yes... lead in them. Not like the good old days when Superman could use a bucket of it to shield the kryptonite, but yeah... -- __________________________________________________ ___ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] |
#40
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Inverter generator Do I need that?
On Sat, 25 May 2019 10:31:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/25/2019 1:29 AM, wrote: On Fri, 24 May 2019 23:44:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I have to do some more checking, but mostly the fridge is the big value thing to keep going. Gas range and grill takes care of cooking, city water. A natural gas house should run fine on a little 2kw inverter. Look at any 240v (2 pole) breakers in the panel because those pieces of equipment are not going to work. The other issue is trying to put transfer equipment on your panel will be tough too since you will only be able to feed one phase. You also would have to be sure all 240v breakers were tripped. I'm going to use cords for now. I don't know how often the power may go out but if only a day or two a year, no big deal. If for a week at a time, you can be sure I'll do more. I was never able to justify a generator for 53 years but here, I may. I lived without one for 33 years and Irma was really the only time I needed it. After Charley the lights were back in a day. We went to bed in the dark and the power coming on woke us up. The only reason I bought one was someone made me a deal I couldn't refuse ($300 for one new in a 10 year old box). He bought it after Charley (2004) and sold it to me in 2014, never having even started it. He had oil in it and pulled it over every year or two but did not put gas in it. . |
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