Ignoramus25850 wrote:
I suppose that I can buy a few marine 12V batteries, or forklift
batteries, tie them in parallel, and use in the following manner:
charge during generator runtime with the big charger, and when the
generator is out, use the Ferrups FE inverter to supply (limited)
power to the house. It should be enough to run fridges and furnace and
a couple of lights or TV.

During normal periods when utility power is available, this big bank
can be kept charged and in top shape with a automatic trickle charger.

Even though it should be pretty reliable, you are adding a lot of
complexity for (probably) a very small gain. Stock up on diesel and
stop beating yourself up on how to make an incremental improvement.

I looked at a Giant UPS for a new house I'm consulting on, and the
float charge power requirements were astounding!

[If you are off-grid, batteries make sense, and you probably need some
limited UPS if you have computers and such, but adding them to a
fairly reliable grid will be a lot of expense and maintenance...]

"Ignoramus25850" wrote in message
...

1) a Ferrups FE series UPS with functioning inverter, but blown charging
circuit. 1400 honest VA.

I don't think that Ferrups is very efficient. Hook it up with a light load
and do an input/output power comparison before you commit yourself to this
project. The good thing is that it is sine wave out. In that respect, it is
perfect for running a 'frig.

Vaughn

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 01:00:15 GMT, Ignoramus25850
wrote:

A post by Wayne, which I at first disagreed with, made me think.

I already have a generator, my notorious Onan DJE

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

I realized that also have two things:

1) a Ferrups FE series UPS with functioning inverter, but blown charging
circuit. 1400 honest VA.

2) A heavy 12V battery charger pictured he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp3/

(look at the orange colored item).

I suppose that I can buy a few marine 12V batteries, or forklift
batteries, tie them in parallel, and use in the following manner:
charge during generator runtime with the big charger, and when the
generator is out, use the Ferrups FE inverter to supply (limited)
power to the house. It should be enough to run fridges and furnace and
a couple of lights or TV.

During normal periods when utility power is available, this big bank
can be kept charged and in top shape with a automatic trickle charger.

Any thoughts on this? My cost will, pretty much, amount to buying new
marine batteries or a 12V forklift battery or some such.

It's not really a far fetched project. I have a bunch of DC connect
links and short heavy cables. The Ferrups FE is a proven working
inverter, I used it as my house power backup before I bought the
genset. All I need is put it all together on a shelf and properly tie
into my electrical system at home. It will only power one leg of home
220V power, but that's fine. Good enuf for TVs and fridges and
furnace, which I can put all on one leg.

I am not a newbie to making working things out of salvaged parts. As
Rec.Crafts.Metalworking posters know, partly due to their help I built
a 10 HP phase converter with $45 worth of stuff.

i
Ever hear of a UBS? Best power made them in years past - a big UPS,
such as you are considering, with a reasonable battery pack, and a DC
generator that looked after providing power when the bateries got low,
and recharged them. Get an old reefer deisel (or a Kubota or Yanmar -
or even an old Lister)and put a big bus or ambulance alternator on it
and connect THAT to your UPS.
If you get a 220 volt UPS - and they WERE made - you can run both
legs, And the GOOD ups units of that size even had a built in transfer
switch - which isn't required if you run a dual conversion UPS on a
full-house basis.

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 01:32:02 GMT, "Vaughn"
wrote:


"Ignoramus25850" wrote in message
. ..

1) a Ferrups FE series UPS with functioning inverter, but blown charging
circuit. 1400 honest VA.

I don't think that Ferrups is very efficient. Hook it up with a light load
and do an input/output power comparison before you commit yourself to this
project. The good thing is that it is sine wave out. In that respect, it is
perfect for running a 'frig.

Vaughn

The Ferrups is perhaps the most innefficient UPS built - but before
the days of switching power supplies, there was nothing that could
provide cleaner, better regulated power.
They did NOT like switch-mode power supplies - they got even more
inefficient when running switch-mode loads.
Today, a good PWM unit can provide power almost as clean, at about 10
times the efficiency (or 1/10 the power overhead).

I too have 750 VA Ferrups in my basement. Even went to the trouble of
bringing the battery connections out of the box using those nice Anderson
connectors for a BIG external battery. But as others have stated, it is
inefficient because it is a FERRO-RESONANT transformer. Notice that there
is a cooling fan inside just to remove heat. I hooked it up to the AEMC
Power Logger and found it eats 100W doing nothing. With no AC input, and no
load at all on the output, about 8A flows from the 12V battery. Yes, it is
virutally bullet-proof. But for my hobby application, I didn't want to pay
100W of energy 7 x 24 so it sits in the corner disconnected while I work on
a switch mode inverter system. YMMV.

I use a small inverter to run the blower on my coal stove (I heat with coal)
and a few lights If the power goes out I can still have normal heat and not
run my generator in the middle of the night. If I need to run the fridge,
water pump or anything else with higher power demands I run my generator.

In article ,
Ignoramus25850 wrote:

A post by Wayne, which I at first disagreed with, made me think.

I already have a generator, my notorious Onan DJE



Hey Ig,

The FerroUps will do OK, for what you intend, with the understanding
that it isn't very power efficent at low loadings. That just means that
you will be running your genset a bit more to make up for that lack of
effcency. I just scored a 36Vdc Forklift Battery for my operations,
that had a total of 200 hours of use. (the forklift died, and no parts
available for that old of unit) I will be splitting the bank into two
seperate systems, one 24Vdc for my Trace 4024, and one 12Vdc to run
the 12V Buss in the Cabin. The Trace will be charging the 24Vdc bank,
and I have a very nice 40 Amp Regulated PowerSupply to float across
the 12Vdc bank. Nothing like a 1200Amp/Hr battery to keep things running
while the gensets rests.


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

"Ignoramus25850" wrote in message
...
A post by Wayne, which I at first disagreed with, made me think.

I already have a generator, my notorious Onan DJE

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

I realized that also have two things:

1) a Ferrups FE series UPS with functioning inverter, but blown charging
circuit. 1400 honest VA.

2) A heavy 12V battery charger pictured he

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp3/

(look at the orange colored item).

I suppose that I can buy a few marine 12V batteries, or forklift
batteries, tie them in parallel, and use in the following manner:
charge during generator runtime with the big charger, and when the
generator is out, use the Ferrups FE inverter to supply (limited)
power to the house. It should be enough to run fridges and furnace and
a couple of lights or TV.

This is approximately what I do.
Why pile operating hours on the generator when, most of the time, the load
is minimal?

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 19:39:52 GMT, Ignoramus11916
wrote:
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 19:12:40 GMT, Bruce in Alaska wrote:

I just scored a 36Vdc Forklift Battery for my operations,
that had a total of 200 hours of use. (the forklift died, and no parts
available for that old of unit) I will be splitting the bank into two
seperate systems, one 24Vdc for my Trace 4024, and one 12Vdc to run
the 12V Buss in the Cabin. The Trace will be charging the 24Vdc bank,
and I have a very nice 40 Amp Regulated PowerSupply to float across
the 12Vdc bank. Nothing like a 1200Amp/Hr battery to keep things running
while the gensets rests.

Very nice. I will check out forklift batteries in my area.

If you want another idea on getting big batteries for cheap, call
the local telephone companies, or big computer centers with big
inverters, and see what they will have in their "Surplus" pile.

Those users have several strings of 1200AH, 2400AH, 4200AH and
larger single cell lead calcium deep-cycle wet cells that you can
assemble into any voltage you want, and the whole string of 26 is
usually retired at the very first sign of aging of any one cell -
meaning most of them have several years left in them.

Normally they just send them back for recycling, at several hundred
pounds of lead per cell, and they are heavy enough that shipping them
long distances to be recycled is an issue. But if you get there first
and reserve the next batch they pull...

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
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