for the 2016 Chevy Traverse, GMC Acadia, and the Buick Enclave.
ABC News article he http://alturl.com/kgqfx

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On Sat, 14 May 2016 08:59:52 -0500
"Dean Hoffman" wrote:


for the 2016 Chevy Traverse, GMC Acadia, and the Buick Enclave.
ABC News article he http://alturl.com/kgqfx


They state what the government tells them to.

On Sat, 14 May 2016 10:57:06 -0500, burfordTjustice
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 08:59:52 -0500
"Dean Hoffman" wrote:


for the 2016 Chevy Traverse, GMC Acadia, and the Buick Enclave.
ABC News article he http://alturl.com/kgqfx


They state what the government tells them to.

The auto makers do their own testing. From the article:

"All automakers do their own testing for mileage under EPA guidelines and
submit figures
to the agency, which does spot checks to verify the figures. In 2012, the
agency found that
Hyundai and Kia had overstated mileage on 13 models from 2011 through 2013
that totaled about
1.2 million vehicles. Mileage on one vehicle was overstated by six mpg."


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On Sat, 14 May 2016 11:10:20 -0500
"Dean Hoffman" wrote:

EPA guidelines

That tells you the other two did not state
what the EPA told them to.

Testing is done of paper not on the road.

On 5/14/2016 6:59 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

for the 2016 Chevy Traverse, GMC Acadia, and the Buick Enclave.
ABC News article he http://alturl.com/kgqfx

Amusing in that AFAICT, most folks get BETTER mileage than
the data published for their vehicles. E.g., our vehicle is
("up to") 20/29 yet we've consistently averaged better than
the "20" in town -- despite the fact that the car claims
our average speed to be about 19MPH (over the last 10 months).

My trip to the local library this morning clocked in at 29.7
(no "highway" driving involved)

On 05/14/2016 05:12 PM, Don Y wrote:
Amusing in that AFAICT, most folks get BETTER mileage than
the data published for their vehicles. E.g., our vehicle is
("up to") 20/29 yet we've consistently averaged better than
the "20" in town -- despite the fact that the car claims
our average speed to be about 19MPH (over the last 10 months).

According to the ScanGauge my Toyota does better than the EPA rating
unless I'm running 80 mph or so.

On 5/14/2016 6:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/14/2016 05:12 PM, Don Y wrote:
Amusing in that AFAICT, most folks get BETTER mileage than
the data published for their vehicles. E.g., our vehicle is
("up to") 20/29 yet we've consistently averaged better than
the "20" in town -- despite the fact that the car claims
our average speed to be about 19MPH (over the last 10 months).

According to the ScanGauge my Toyota does better than the EPA rating unless I'm
running 80 mph or so.

We've not yet had the car "on the highway" so no idea what it
will do with the chance to "cruise" (instead of the stop-n-go
that we experience in town). Hard to come up with anyplace
we'd want to *go* that would require any sort of serious
driving! : Might be fun to actually play with some of
its toys while not having to watch for the stop sign at
the next corner...

On 5/14/2016 7:12 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/14/2016 6:59 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

for the 2016 Chevy Traverse, GMC Acadia, and the Buick Enclave.
ABC News article he http://alturl.com/kgqfx

Amusing in that AFAICT, most folks get BETTER mileage than
the data published for their vehicles. E.g., our vehicle is
("up to") 20/29 yet we've consistently averaged better than
the "20" in town -- despite the fact that the car claims
our average speed to be about 19MPH (over the last 10 months).

My trip to the local library this morning clocked in at 29.7
(no "highway" driving involved)


Where are you getting the numbers? Since you are talking a trip this
morning are you using what the car is telling you? If so, it is
probably wrong.

The last five cars (different brands) had the computer that gave you the
mpg of a trip and since the last fill up. I've checked the old method
of filling the tank and calculating. The car computer ranged from 2 to
6 mpg too high

In reality, it is very rare to really get what the official rating is.
Verified over hndreds of tanks of gas on many cars.

On 5/14/2016 7:32 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Where are you getting the numbers? Since you are talking a trip this morning
are you using what the car is telling you? If so, it is probably wrong.

The last five cars (different brands) had the computer that gave you the mpg of
a trip and since the last fill up. I've checked the old method of filling the
tank and calculating. The car computer ranged from 2 to 6 mpg too high

Ours has been really close. We record the odometer reading and the gallons
of fuel that the *pump* claims to have dispensed. We compare this to the total
that the car reports for each tankful along with the running average. The
car always reports *lower* MPG than we calculate.

E.g., car reports 190.3 miles on the last tank. (the car decides when it
has been "filled"; we don't "tell it"). Car claims 20.5 MPG. Simple
arithmetic suggests the actual efficiency was 21.29 MPG.

For a car that claims to get "up to" 20MPG in city driving.

Of course, if car was claiming 29 MPG for each "trip" -- then reporting an
average of 20 for the tank, we would be suspicious. OTOH, when we see it
report *5.8* MPG for a trip down the block (*a* block), we don't start
sweating!

In reality, it is very rare to really get what the official rating is. Verified
over hndreds of tanks of gas on many cars.

Perhaps you should buy a "smarter" car? :

Our vehicle currently has ~4300 miles on it. As of the last fillup (at
4259), we'd pumped 214.402 gallons into it. That's 19.86 MPG over the life
of the car.

If the manufacturer told me "up to 20 MPG" and I calculate 19.86 -- while
the car claims 19 (doesn't display tenths) as its average -- I'm not going
to gripe that "I'm not getting what the official rating is"!

On 05/14/2016 07:25 PM, Don Y wrote:
We've not yet had the car "on the highway" so no idea what it
will do with the chance to "cruise" (instead of the stop-n-go
that we experience in town). Hard to come up with anyplace
we'd want to *go* that would require any sort of serious
driving! : Might be fun to actually play with some of
its toys while not having to watch for the stop sign at
the next corner...

In Montana it's hard to come up with anyplace to go that does not
require serious driving

On 05/14/2016 08:32 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
The last five cars (different brands) had the computer that gave you the
mpg of a trip and since the last fill up. I've checked the old method
of filling the tank and calculating. The car computer ranged from 2 to
6 mpg too high

I go by a ScanGauge plugged into the ODB. When I fill up it is usually
within a tenth of a gallon on how much will take to fill the tank and
the tank mpg numbers jibe with the odometer.

On 5/14/2016 10:01 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/14/2016 07:25 PM, Don Y wrote:
We've not yet had the car "on the highway" so no idea what it
will do with the chance to "cruise" (instead of the stop-n-go
that we experience in town). Hard to come up with anyplace
we'd want to *go* that would require any sort of serious
driving! : Might be fun to actually play with some of
its toys while not having to watch for the stop sign at
the next corner...

In Montana it's hard to come up with anyplace to go that does not require
serious driving

Well, once "out of town", that's the way it would be, here
(as you know).

Unfortunately, *getting* out of town is a major challenge from
our location (I10 goes south and west of town; we're north and east).
So, the better part of an hour to get *on* the interstate (if
headed to feenigs)

OTOH, you can do 45 on many of the roads in town -- just not for
very FAR (before encountering yet-another-traffic-signal). A bit
over 4000 miles on the car -- at an average speed of 18 MPH (I think).

On 05/14/2016 07:25 PM, Don Y wrote:
We've not yet had the car "on the highway" so no idea what it
will do with the chance to "cruise" (instead of the stop-n-go
that we experience in town). Hard to come up with anyplace
we'd want to *go* that would require any sort of serious
driving! : Might be fun to actually play with some of
its toys while not having to watch for the stop sign at
the next corner...


We have different lifestyles. Last week I took my wife out to dinner
for our anniversary. I chose the restaurant. Three days, nearly two
tanks of gas and 745 miles.

Next month we are joining friends for their anniversary. Three days, at
least 450 miles.

On 5/15/2016 4:04 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 05/14/2016 07:25 PM, Don Y wrote:
We've not yet had the car "on the highway" so no idea what it
will do with the chance to "cruise" (instead of the stop-n-go
that we experience in town). Hard to come up with anyplace
we'd want to *go* that would require any sort of serious
driving! : Might be fun to actually play with some of
its toys while not having to watch for the stop sign at
the next corner...

We have different lifestyles. Last week I took my wife out to dinner for our
anniversary. I chose the restaurant. Three days, nearly two tanks of gas and
745 miles.

Next month we are joining friends for their anniversary. Three days, at least
450 miles.

Neither of us enjoy time traveling; nothing gets done beyond
changing your position on the globe -- "We'll wait for it to come
out on DVD..."

A "special dinner" is *me* spending the day to prepare one of her
favorites -- along with suitable desserts. If she could buy it in
a restaurant (or bakery), it wouldn't be special -- it would just
be "yet another credit card charge".

The same is true when we are invited to friends' for a party, meal, etc.
Walking in with something *purchased* is a cop-out -- a few extra minutes
on the weekly shopping trip and a few extra dollars. OTOH, making
something special *for* them (cheesecake, ice cream, coffee cake,
biscotti, lasagna, electronic doorbell, etc.) represents an investment
of *time*.

Unfortunately, a special dinner for *me* ALSO requires *me* to prepare
it :

On 5/15/2016 7:29 AM, Don Y wrote:


Neither of us enjoy time traveling; nothing gets done beyond
changing your position on the globe -- "We'll wait for it to come
out on DVD..."

We enjoy travel. Meeting people, seeing things, experiencing local
customers, especially in foreign countries.

A "special dinner" is *me* spending the day to prepare one of her
favorites -- along with suitable desserts. If she could buy it in
a restaurant (or bakery), it wouldn't be special -- it would just
be "yet another credit card charge".

I often do the same, but again, it is the dining experience we enjoy.
We went to the Culinary Institute for our 50th.
This is just one of the restaurants they have
http://www.ristorantecaterinademedici.com/
others can be seen here
http://www.ciarestaurantgroup.com/



The same is true when we are invited to friends' for a party, meal, etc.
Walking in with something *purchased* is a cop-out -- a few extra minutes
on the weekly shopping trip and a few extra dollars. OTOH, making
something special *for* them (cheesecake, ice cream, coffee cake,
biscotti, lasagna, electronic doorbell, etc.) represents an investment
of *time*.


Agree. Home made is the only way to go.

On 05/15/2016 05:29 AM, Don Y wrote:
A "special dinner" is *me* spending the day to prepare one of her
favorites -- along with suitable desserts. If she could buy it in
a restaurant (or bakery), it wouldn't be special -- it would just
be "yet another credit card charge".

The same is true when we are invited to friends' for a party, meal, etc.
Walking in with something *purchased* is a cop-out -- a few extra minutes
on the weekly shopping trip and a few extra dollars. OTOH, making
something special *for* them (cheesecake, ice cream, coffee cake,
biscotti, lasagna, electronic doorbell, etc.) represents an investment
of *time*.

Strongly disagree!

If I was on your guest list, you'd want me to bring a professionally prepared dish. Trust me on this. ;-)

On 5/15/2016 6:24 AM, fakeid wrote:
On 05/15/2016 05:29 AM, Don Y wrote:
A "special dinner" is *me* spending the day to prepare one of her
favorites -- along with suitable desserts. If she could buy it in
a restaurant (or bakery), it wouldn't be special -- it would just
be "yet another credit card charge".

The same is true when we are invited to friends' for a party, meal, etc.
Walking in with something *purchased* is a cop-out -- a few extra minutes
on the weekly shopping trip and a few extra dollars. OTOH, making
something special *for* them (cheesecake, ice cream, coffee cake,
biscotti, lasagna, electronic doorbell, etc.) represents an investment
of *time*.

Strongly disagree!

If I was on your guest list, you'd want me to bring a professionally
prepared dish. Trust me on this. ;-)

LOL. But then what would we talk about?

On Sat, 14 May 2016 11:26:19 -0500, burfordTjustice
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 11:10:20 -0500
"Dean Hoffman" wrote:

EPA guidelines

That tells you the other two did not state
what the EPA told them to.

Testing is done of paper not on the road.

It looks like it's done in a lab according to this:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml

The first paragraph says:

"Fuel economy is measured under controlled conditions in a
laboratory using a standardized test procedure specified by
federal law. Manufacturers test their own vehicles€”usually
pre-production prototypes€”and report the results to EPA. EPA
reviews the results and confirms about 10%€“15% of them through
their own tests at the National Vehicles and Fuel Emissions
Laboratory."


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On Sun, 15 May 2016 10:34:58 -0500
"Dean Hoffman" wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 11:26:19 -0500, burfordTjustice
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2016 11:10:20 -0500
"Dean Hoffman" wrote:

EPA guidelines

That tells you the other two did not state
what the EPA told them to.

Testing is done of paper not on the road.

It looks like it's done in a lab according to this:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml

The first paragraph says:

"Fuel economy is measured under controlled conditions in a
laboratory using a standardized test procedure specified by
federal law. Manufacturers test their own vehicles€”usually
pre-production prototypes€”and report the results to EPA. EPA
reviews the results and confirms about 10%€“15% of them through
their own tests at the National Vehicles and Fuel Emissions
Laboratory."



Believe what you wish...the system is NOT what you
think it appears to be.

On 5/15/2016 4:56 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/15/2016 7:29 AM, Don Y wrote:

Neither of us enjoy time traveling; nothing gets done beyond
changing your position on the globe -- "We'll wait for it to come
out on DVD..."

We enjoy travel. Meeting people, seeing things, experiencing local customers,
especially in foreign countries.

I traveled A LOT when I was younger (work, leisure, etc.). Now, I would
welcome a "transporter" (star trek). We engage lots of different people
due to our "social" schedules, groups with which we are involved, etc.
Not the sort of people that *I* would seek out (being far more
"technical" by nature) but often interesting, nonetheless. Thankfully,
I'm a "quick study" so I can usually dive into a discussion of some
brand new topic/field in short order. IME, people much prefer having
YOU ask them about stuff than the other way around...

A "special dinner" is *me* spending the day to prepare one of her
favorites -- along with suitable desserts. If she could buy it in
a restaurant (or bakery), it wouldn't be special -- it would just
be "yet another credit card charge".

I often do the same, but again, it is the dining experience we enjoy. We went
to the Culinary Institute for our 50th.
This is just one of the restaurants they have
http://www.ristorantecaterinademedici.com/
others can be seen here
http://www.ciarestaurantgroup.com/

If the 'experience' is waiting for someone to take your order, bring your
drinks, bring you a clean piece of silverware, etc., I'm not keen on it! :
Growing up, "hospitality" was usually indicated by how willing you were
to give folks access to your refrigerator. I.e., "Help yourself".
(It was always forbidden to access someone *else's* refrigerator without
their consent -- you waited for them to GET you what you wanted).

So, when we have folks over, everyone gravitates towards the kitchen
almost magically. As if they lived here.

The same is true when we are invited to friends' for a party, meal, etc.
Walking in with something *purchased* is a cop-out -- a few extra minutes
on the weekly shopping trip and a few extra dollars. OTOH, making
something special *for* them (cheesecake, ice cream, coffee cake,
biscotti, lasagna, electronic doorbell, etc.) represents an investment
of *time*.

Agree. Home made is the only way to go.

Many of the things that I make can't be found in stores. Or, are
of much higher quality/intensity. E.g., I'll make cavatelli (a
sort of "dense shell" macaroni) from scratch -- the *day* they
will be served. Or, a batch of ice cream ripened just enough
to be firm without being *frozen* -- in time for dessert. Or,
a unique clock/timepiece. etc. So, it's not like a homemade
version of something you could have bought at a local store.

(E.g., my butter pecan ice cream has 1/4 pound of butter in
a 2 pint batch: "Wow! This is really buttery!")

At times, it is distressing if the host/hostess *hides* what
I've brought (so THEY could have it for themselves -- after
the guests have left!). But, I've learned not to fret over this
as I *gave* it to them and have no right to decide how *they*
"use" it.

OTOH, it can be embarassing when a guest makes a point of asking
me what I brought -- knowing it would be something good. Then
starts *looking* for it. Esp if they ask the host/hostess about it
("Oh, we didn't put it out; there's so much OTHER stuff here...")

shrug Not my problem.

What's annoying is the stranger who will inevitably ask you to
make some for them: "I'll pay you..." (do you really think
I want to do this for a living??)

On 05/15/2016 05:29 AM, Don Y wrote:
The same is true when we are invited to friends' for a party, meal, etc.
Walking in with something *purchased* is a cop-out -- a few extra minutes
on the weekly shopping trip and a few extra dollars.

In my mother's circle the surest way to become a target of derision was
to try to doll up a purchased item and pass it off as your own. Even a
cake that originated from a box was pushing acceptability.

While my mother was a good cook, there were the inevitable failures. The
family got to eat those while she tried again to produce something for
public consumption.

On 5/15/2016 11:23 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/15/2016 05:29 AM, Don Y wrote:
The same is true when we are invited to friends' for a party, meal, etc.
Walking in with something *purchased* is a cop-out -- a few extra minutes
on the weekly shopping trip and a few extra dollars.

In my mother's circle the surest way to become a target of derision was to try
to doll up a purchased item and pass it off as your own. Even a cake that
originated from a box was pushing acceptability.

I used to bake things for SWMBO to share with her fellow coworkers.
One day, she tried to pass off my coffee cake as her own. And, of
course, was asked for the Rx: "I'll have to bring it in to you, tomorrow".

Except, Don wasn't eager to share his secrets. Leaving her to explain
why she 'forgot' to bring it in! :

While my mother was a good cook, there were the inevitable failures. The family
got to eat those while she tried again to produce something for public
consumption.

I leave notes to myself each time I make something to give me an idea of
how it might improve. E.g., my biscotti Rx has changed A LOT over the
years (making a batch every two weeks gives you a lot of opportunities
to tweak it!). Ditto cheesecake and coffeecake, particularly.

[Ice cream is FUN to experiment with! "No such thing as a bad batch of
ice cream!"]

I've noticed that, lately, far more effort is spent on perfecting
the process/technique than the ingredients. E.g., my coffeecake is
really difficult to determine when it's "done". It's about 4+" tall
(ring) so hard to probe the interior for "doneness" (LOTS of
sour cream makes it susceptible to being UNDER cooked; over cooking
makes it dry -- defeating the whole purpose!).

So, my notes involve more detailed observations of times, temperatures
and subjective measures ("how sticky a toothpick inserted into it comes
out")

Cheesecake is 5 hours on your feet. So, the notes for that deal
with ways of reducing that time. Or, breaking it up into two or
more "sessions" (it's hard to set aside a 5 hour block of time
for ONE task -- esp given that I don't like cheesecake! : )

On 05/15/2016 12:54 PM, Don Y wrote:
Cheesecake is 5 hours on your feet. So, the notes for that deal
with ways of reducing that time. Or, breaking it up into two or
more "sessions" (it's hard to set aside a 5 hour block of time
for ONE task -- esp given that I don't like cheesecake! : )

I like cheesecake but my enthusiasm for making it dried up with 'take a
springform pan'...

On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 7:56:36 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/15/2016 7:29 AM, Don Y wrote:


Neither of us enjoy time traveling; nothing gets done beyond
changing your position on the globe -- "We'll wait for it to come
out on DVD..."

We enjoy travel. Meeting people, seeing things, experiencing local
customers, especially in foreign countries.


Not only do I enjoy all of those things, I enjoy the driving also. I seem to have passed that
gene onto one of my daughters. We're trying to talk her out of driving 5 hours each way to
attend her sister's graduation next weekend. 10 hours of driving for a 1.5 hour ceremony
and a meal. That's all she'll really have time for.

Her response to me was "If it's about putting the milage on the car, I agree. If it's about
me driving 10 hours, you know that's not an issue."

I guess I raised her right. ;-)

On 5/15/2016 1:27 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/15/2016 12:54 PM, Don Y wrote:
Cheesecake is 5 hours on your feet. So, the notes for that deal
with ways of reducing that time. Or, breaking it up into two or
more "sessions" (it's hard to set aside a 5 hour block of time
for ONE task -- esp given that I don't like cheesecake! : )

I like cheesecake but my enthusiasm for making it dried up with 'take a
springform pan'...

Ah, mine is rectangular -- in a ~9x13 glass baking dish. Very
"light" (far less calories than a New York style)

The problem is that the crust takes an hour to make. It can
chill while you spend an hour and a half reducing the pineapple.
The filling requires another hour -- assuming you've taken the
ingredients out ahead of time to let them come to room temperature
(cream cheese is remarkably dense!). But, the pineapple can
cool while you're doing that.
Baking takes an hour and a half -- which you will spend cleaning
the various bowls and pots that you used.
Then, packaging it (for transport) yet another hour.

And, it's "gone" in a matter of minutes! :-/

I bring one to my PCP around the holidays. His eyes light up
when he sees the cooler accompanying me into his office.
First one I made for him he was surprised/pleased. When I
told him, "Oh, this is GOOD! You can trade it for sexual
favors!!" he turned red clear to the top of his head! I've
not bothered to ask what he "gets" from his wife for sharing it...

On 5/15/2016 1:27 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/15/2016 12:54 PM, Don Y wrote:
Cheesecake is 5 hours on your feet. So, the notes for that deal
with ways of reducing that time. Or, breaking it up into two or
more "sessions" (it's hard to set aside a 5 hour block of time
for ONE task -- esp given that I don't like cheesecake! : )

I like cheesecake but my enthusiasm for making it dried up with 'take a
springform pan'...

I actually went looking for a large (HUGE!) springform pan for *pizza*.
Always hard to find something deep enough for the pie, yet easy
enough to cut and remove slices.

On 05/15/2016 03:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Her response to me was "If it's about putting the milage on the car, I agree. If it's about
me driving 10 hours, you know that's not an issue."


After you drive 12,000 miles a month for a few years ,the thrill wears
off. I get back into it after the first couple of hundred miles but
getting up the enthusiasm to start off is difficult.

On 5/15/2016 2:10 PM, rbowman wrote:
After you drive 12,000 miles a month for a few years ,the thrill wears off. I
get back into it after the first couple of hundred miles but getting up the
enthusiasm to start off is difficult.

When I was younger, I used to like "driving". Not "sightseeing"
but driving. E.g., climb in the car on one coast, climb out on
the next coast -- with nothing but stops for gas along the way.
(e.g., the colorado-boston trips were 40 hours, start to finish)

Now, I don't have the patience to deal with all the other bozos
on the roads, the uncertainties of traffic, construction, etc.
"Are we there, yet?"

On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 5:09:15 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 05/15/2016 03:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Her response to me was "If it's about putting the milage on the car, I agree. If it's about
me driving 10 hours, you know that's not an issue."


After you drive 12,000 miles a month for a few years ,the thrill wears
off. I get back into it after the first couple of hundred miles but
getting up the enthusiasm to start off is difficult.

Well, it's not 12K a month, but my daughter had to do an internship for her Master's degree this
past semester. 100 mile round trip, 4 days a week. Toss in a few weekend trips to visit friends
at her undergrad school, trips home for the holidays, etc. and I think she's driven over 30K
in the past year.

The (not so) funny part of this is that she's driving her mom's 2005 Taurus wagon. (I kid her
that she's "the coolest kid on campus" but she loves that car.) Anyway, before we gave her the car we never used it for long trips. We always took my newer vehicle or rented a car if Mom
was traveling on her own. Now my daughter has driven that beast all over New England
for the past year and a half. She had it inspected at a trusted indy shop before heading off to
spend the summer working in Vermont and the owner said not to worry: "It's old, but it's in
great shape. I'd let my daughter drive it if it was hers."

On 5/15/2016 5:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Not only do I enjoy all of those things, I enjoy the driving also. I seem to have passed that
gene onto one of my daughters. We're trying to talk her out of driving 5 hours each way to
attend her sister's graduation next weekend. 10 hours of driving for a 1.5 hour ceremony
and a meal. That's all she'll really have time for.

Her response to me was "If it's about putting the milage on the car, I agree. If it's about
me driving 10 hours, you know that's not an issue."

I guess I raised her right. ;-)


You did. My daughter lives 5 hours away and she does it in 4 1/2 hours.
She also has three cross country round trips to her credit. Twice
with 3 kids.

Some of us just like to drive. Anywhere, any time except blizzards.

On 5/15/2016 5:10 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/15/2016 03:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Her response to me was "If it's about putting the milage on the car, I
agree. If it's about
me driving 10 hours, you know that's not an issue."


After you drive 12,000 miles a month for a few years ,the thrill wears
off. I get back into it after the first couple of hundred miles but
getting up the enthusiasm to start off is difficult.

I can understand that. For us, the first 100 miles can be boring
because we've gone most routes out of town frequently. Given the time
we try to avoid the highways as they can be boring.

The pat weekend I knew the route from Hyde Park NY to Lake George and
the to Waterbury VT. For a change I used the NAV and set it to avoid
freeways and toll roads. Took us much longer but we saw a lot more.
Took us on roads I never would have guessed at.

On 05/15/2016 07:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I can understand that. For us, the first 100 miles can be boring
because we've gone most routes out of town frequently. Given the time
we try to avoid the highways as they can be boring.

The pat weekend I knew the route from Hyde Park NY to Lake George and
the to Waterbury VT. For a change I used the NAV and set it to avoid
freeways and toll roads. Took us much longer but we saw a lot more.
Took us on roads I never would have guessed at.

One of the things I miss about back east are the alternative routes,
even for a short drive. In much of the west, you take the interstate,
end of story. There are frontage roads along I90 that I take for variety
but you're just paralleling I90 and they are seldom more than ten miles
before you have to get back on the big road.

On 5/15/2016 9:45 PM, rbowman wrote:
One of the things I miss about back east are the alternative routes, even for a
short drive. In much of the west, you take the interstate, end of story. There
are frontage roads along I90 that I take for variety but you're just
paralleling I90 and they are seldom more than ten miles before you have to get
back on the big road.

And, they're (west) just straight slogs!

I remember the first time I drove cross country. Got to kansas: "OK, this
is interesting" (I was being generous... flat is anything BUT interesting!)
After 30 minutes of that, I was ready for "the next state".

I joked that I didn't dare pull off the road for fear that I'd get
back on, headed in the wrong direction, and not realize it until I saw
the CO or MO state line!

On 5/16/2016 12:45 AM, rbowman wrote:
One of the things I miss about back east are the alternative routes,
even for a short drive. In much of the west, you take the interstate,
end of story. There are frontage roads along I90 that I take for variety
but you're just paralleling I90 and they are seldom more than ten miles
before you have to get back on the big road.


Many years ago, I went to a funeral in Indiana.
The highway was clogged with road construction.
20 MPH instead of 65. I had a look at my USA map,
and found a parallel route. Had to stop for the
towns, but the travel progress was so much better.

The one time I went to Salt Lake City, we took
I-80, think it was. The fellow riding with me
said that Nebraska is endless. I have to agree,
every 50 miles were cattle guards, and a small
town. took about six hours to cross the state.
We were lucky to have someone to talk with. I
did wish for cruise control.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 05/15/2016 11:03 PM, Don Y wrote:
I remember the first time I drove cross country. Got to kansas: "OK, this
is interesting" (I was being generous... flat is anything BUT interesting!)
After 30 minutes of that, I was ready for "the next state".

The country would be a lot more interesting if Denver fronted on the
Mississippi. On one trip I forgot Oklahoma was between Arkansas and
Texas on I40. I was disappointed when i hit the OK line. Of course,
Arkansas and Texas do adjoin at Texarkana but then you have a day and a
half of Texas. Just can't win.

On 05/16/2016 06:06 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Many years ago, I went to a funeral in Indiana.
The highway was clogged with road construction.
20 MPH instead of 65. I had a look at my USA map,
and found a parallel route. Had to stop for the
towns, but the travel progress was so much better.

I worked in Ft. Wayne for a year. I'd ride my bicycle 15 or 20 miles
looking at soybeans, turn around, and ride back looking at the other
side of the soybeans. The wind shifted as soon as I turned too.

Flying was even worse. When the scenery all looks the same you have
plenty of time to think about the wings falling off or the engine
stopping. The Tomahawk only did 100 knots happily so it wasn't much
better than driving.

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 8:55:53 AM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:
On 05/16/2016 06:06 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Many years ago, I went to a funeral in Indiana.
The highway was clogged with road construction.
20 MPH instead of 65. I had a look at my USA map,
and found a parallel route. Had to stop for the
towns, but the travel progress was so much better.

I worked in Ft. Wayne for a year. I'd ride my bicycle 15 or 20 miles
looking at soybeans, turn around, and ride back looking at the other
side of the soybeans. The wind shifted as soon as I turned too.

Flying was even worse. When the scenery all looks the same you have
plenty of time to think about the wings falling off or the engine
stopping. The Tomahawk only did 100 knots happily so it wasn't much
better than driving.

How long did the trip take you by bicycle? I was in the best shape of my life when I was getting around by bicycle. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Peddling Monster

On 5/16/2016 9:57 AM, rbowman wrote:

I worked in Ft. Wayne for a year. I'd ride my bicycle 15 or 20 miles
looking at soybeans, turn around, and ride back looking at the other
side of the soybeans. The wind shifted as soon as I turned too.

Flying was even worse. When the scenery all looks the same you have
plenty of time to think about the wings falling off or the engine
stopping. The Tomahawk only did 100 knots happily so it wasn't much
better than driving.

My sister made friends with a girl scout from
Canada. Sister asked friend how fast they drove,
on the way to visit. Friend said "we didn't go
very fast, we only went about a hundred". Sister
exclaims how fast that was, we only go about
sixty or sixty five.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 5/16/2016 9:57 AM, rbowman wrote:

I worked in Ft. Wayne for a year. I'd ride my bicycle 15 or 20 miles
looking at soybeans, turn around, and ride back looking at the other
side of the soybeans. The wind shifted as soon as I turned too.


I'm not sure the modern generation knows
how food is produced, and how it gets
to the store. Just as happy to see all
those soybeans plowed under, and put up
a theme park. "Starving clueless kids
park".

You ever see bumper stickers "No farms;
no food". Guess they never went hunting
or fishing.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

Stormin Mormon writes:

You ever see bumper stickers "No farms;
no food". Guess they never went hunting
or fishing.

You may wish to consider researching hunter-gatherer
societies and the transition to agriculture and the
advancements made possible thereby (such as the ability
to support much larger populations). If you had to survive
on hunting and fishing, you'd not have the abundant leisure
time to support your voluminous useless posting and evangelizing.