I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

SJ

"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of
sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged.
Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the
side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically
not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places
say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

---------

have done just that in the past.

"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.

--
Dan Espen

On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 1:55:53 PM UTC-5, Sasquatch Jones wrote:
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

SJ

Typically the flexing renders any fix sort term. That's why they say not to try to repair sidewalls.

On 11/4/2014 2:20 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.


Yeah - Your not supposed to patch a side wall. Mostly it's due to the
flexing the sidewall does, the patch won't hold long anyway but that
1/2" tear you got will end up weakening and as the previous poster
mentioned, a blowout could happen. Don't ever stick a plug in the side
wall either - That will spread the steel bands and weaken the wall
worse. I've gotten away with having a plug stuck in on the very edge of
the tread before, (but still facing the road) where your not supposed to
have one, but was in a situation where I had no choice. Still fine
after 30K miles there, but never would I do a sidewall. I don't see why
a tube wouldn't be fine, but would patch the tire on the inside so no
chance of the tube having any issues with where the cut was.

But all in all, with the price for a tube & repair why not just get a
new tire? If your really hard up for $$, you can even buy used with
decent tread left. I've never done it before, but have seen used tire
places so someone does..

On 11/4/2014 2:45 PM, IYM wrote:
On 11/4/2014 2:20 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.


Yeah - Your not supposed to patch a side wall. Mostly it's due to the
flexing the sidewall does, the patch won't hold long anyway but that
1/2" tear you got will end up weakening and as the previous poster
mentioned, a blowout could happen. Don't ever stick a plug in the side
wall either - That will spread the steel bands and weaken the wall
worse. I've gotten away with having a plug stuck in on the very edge of
the tread before, (but still facing the road) where your not supposed to
have one, but was in a situation where I had no choice. Still fine
after 30K miles there, but never would I do a sidewall. I don't see why
a tube wouldn't be fine, but would patch the tire on the inside so no
chance of the tube having any issues with where the cut was.

But all in all, with the price for a tube & repair why not just get a
new tire? If your really hard up for $$, you can even buy used with
decent tread left. I've never done it before, but have seen used tire
places so someone does..

I agree.
Steel is in the belt and sidewalls are probably polyester plies.
If these are cut, tire would be at risk to patch as flexing is in the
sidewall and any repair would probably not be permanent.

I had a friend who had a puncture in his tire sidewall. No one would fix it, until he found a tire shop that would fix it for cash.

It lasted about 9 months, until on a trip between San Diego and the Bay Area it blew on Interstate 5 in the central valley of California. The Expedition caught the shoulder and rolled, killing him, paralyzing one of his passengers, and seriously injuring the other four.

Sasquatch Jones wrote:
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

SJ


Hi,
Safety #1. right? I'd try to find a similar used tire.
I wouldn't have peace of mind if I have a tire with side wall
problem specially driving on freeway.

"Pico Rico" wrote in message
...

"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of
sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged.
Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on
the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say
specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places
say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

---------

have done just that in the past.

let me add: mine was a radial tire and I got many miles out of it with the
tube. However the hole in the sidewall was the tiniest of holes from
hitting the curb, not your 1/2" jagged fright.

On 11/4/2014 2:20 PM, Dan Espen wrote:

A tube should work, but any kind of
cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.


Some decades ago, I used to have box of
sidewall patches. NOt sure I'd trust one.

I'd also suggest replace.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 15:53:14 -0700, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/4/2014 2:20 PM, Dan Espen wrote:

A tube should work, but any kind of
cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.


Some decades ago, I used to have box of
sidewall patches. NOt sure I'd trust one.

I'd also suggest replace.

-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

if a radial, the tire is now compromised and is DANGEROUS. Sorry replace
it.

On 11/4/2014 3:17 PM, wrote:
I had a friend who had a puncture in his tire sidewall. No one would fix it, until he found a tire shop that would fix it for cash.

It lasted about 9 months, until on a trip between San Diego and the Bay Area it blew on Interstate 5 in the central valley of California. The Expedition caught the shoulder and rolled, killing him, paralyzing one of his passengers, and seriously injuring the other four.


A long time ago I did some tire cord R&D.
We had a test where tires were run and load and speed increased until
catastrophic failure. I've seen pictures of these tires before failure
and they were frightening in how much they deformed and flexed. You
don't want to run your tires any where near the max or have a defective
tire running at high speed.

On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:55:19 -0800, "Sasquatch Jones"
wrote:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

SJ

Radial sidewalls are quite fragile -and repairing them is generally
not recommended. A clean puncture is one thing, but a "bruise" is
another. If it has not damaged any cords (unlikely by your
description) a tube MIGHT be acceptable - but it must be a tube made
for radial tires - such as a Michelin AirStop. Even then, heating can
be a problem. I would STRONGLY recommend replacing the tire.

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 14:45:22 -0500, IYM
wrote:

On 11/4/2014 2:20 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.


Yeah - Your not supposed to patch a side wall. Mostly it's due to the
flexing the sidewall does, the patch won't hold long anyway but that
1/2" tear you got will end up weakening and as the previous poster
mentioned, a blowout could happen. Don't ever stick a plug in the side
wall either - That will spread the steel bands and weaken the wall
worse.
Strange - I've NEVER seen a radial tire with steel in the sidewalls.
I've gotten away with having a plug stuck in on the very edge of
the tread before, (but still facing the road) where your not supposed to
have one, but was in a situation where I had no choice. Still fine
after 30K miles there, but never would I do a sidewall. I don't see why
a tube wouldn't be fine, but would patch the tire on the inside so no
chance of the tube having any issues with where the cut was.

But all in all, with the price for a tube & repair why not just get a
new tire? If your really hard up for $$, you can even buy used with
decent tread left. I've never done it before, but have seen used tire
places so someone does..

IYM wrote:

But all in all, with the price for a tube & repair why not just get a
new tire? If your really hard up for $$, you can even buy used with
decent tread left. I've never done it before, but have seen used tire
places so someone does..

I picked up 3 decent tires on craigslist. The guy had damaged one of the set
and was anal enough that he didn't want a mismatched tire.

As for the OP, my pickup doesn't get out much and is on retreads that are
old enough to vote. Two have developed sidewall leaks just sitting in the
driveway. I figured if they were that far gone I would trust a tube, hence
craigslist. I just couldn't see dropping $150 a tire for something that gets
out of the driveway once a year or so.

When I was looking, I saw a lot of tires on craigslist.

Here in Winnipeg there's a place called the Tire Exchange.

They fix leaks from driving over nails or screws by:
1. Taking the tire off the rim
2. Cleaning the tire on the inside around the hole
3. Putting a patch over the hole on the inside,
4. Using a special heater (called a Vulcanizer) to melt the patch over the hole on the inside of the tire.
5. Putting the tire back on the rim with a new stem and re-inflating.

They can do that work in about a half hour.

I would phone around to find out if anyone does those kind of repairs in your area. You should be able to find someone who patches from the inside with a vulcanizing machine.

If not, and if it wuz me, I would probably buy a repair kit for bicycle tires and use that. Have the tire taken off the rim and patch the sidewall from the inside with a bicycle tire inside patch. Still, if you can find a tire shop that installs patches from the inside, that'd be the way to go.

There's a lot of concern over the safety of driving on a repaired tire in this thread. To address those concerns, I'd rotate the repaired tire to the right rear position. That way, if you get a blow-out, it's not on a steering tire, and if you have front wheel drive, it's not on a traction tire either. Also, any blow-out you do get would cause the car to drift to the right instead of to the left into oncoming traffic.

"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

===

Thanks many times over everyone! Both front tires are both close to needing replacing anyway. I'll catch one of the Veterans Day sales.

"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of
sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged.
Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the
side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically
not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places
say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

SJ

++++++++++++++++++++
You cannot repair a sidewall. Let me say that differently, go to the tire
store where they fix tires that leak, they will not repair a sidewall.

You need to buy a new tire.

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.

--
Dan Espen


Worst advice ever. A tube will not work, that's why they do not put them in.
Firstly, without a rim that can be taken apart, the tire mounting machine
can pinch the tube and damage it before the first pound of air goes in.
Secondly, tubeless tires are built differently than tube-type tires.
Thirdly, the sidewall of a tire is by design the weakest part of the tire,
it is typically two-ply where the tread is four-ply. The sidewall constantly
moves and changes shape, and if there is a tear, then the tear will be even
weaker and a catastrophic failure is all but certain.

At best, a tube will hold air. It will not make the sidewall sufficient to
carry the vehicle. Do not put a tube into a tubeless tire. You have to go to
the tire store to have the tire and rim broken down, so they are the venue
for putting the tube in and they will not do it.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 14:45:22 -0500, IYM
wrote:

On 11/4/2014 2:20 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.


Yeah - Your not supposed to patch a side wall. Mostly it's due to the
flexing the sidewall does, the patch won't hold long anyway but that
1/2" tear you got will end up weakening and as the previous poster
mentioned, a blowout could happen. Don't ever stick a plug in the side
wall either - That will spread the steel bands and weaken the wall
worse.


Strange - I've NEVER seen a radial tire with steel in the sidewalls.


You are correct, there is no steel in the sidewall. Steel belts are only in
the tread area.

"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of
sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged.
Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on
the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say
specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places
say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

SJ

++++++++++++++++++++
You cannot repair a sidewall. Let me say that differently, go to the tire
store where they fix tires that leak, they will not repair a sidewall.

You need to buy a new tire.


And, you do not need onen tire, you need two unless the tires on your car
are reasonably new and still available. The rule of thumb is that you should
have matched tires on the same axle, both size and style/model of tire. The
exception is when you put the spare on, but then you should do tire repairs
or replacements and put the spare back into the trunk.

"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of
sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged.
Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the
side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically
not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places
say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

===

Thanks many times over everyone! Both front tires are both close to needing
replacing anyway. I'll catch one of the Veterans Day sales.


I like America's Tire Stores, www.tires.com

Tire Rack, www.tirerack.com, is also a good choice. At Tire Rack, they ship
tires to you, and you take them to the tire store and pay an installation
charge. You can call the installer and see if they accept a drop-shipment.
America's Tire has a competitive price and they will get whatever you need
shipped in for free.

Costco has a limited selection, but the selection they have is pretty good.
They generally have a Good, Better, and Best option for each size.

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR NITROGEN. This is snake oil for tires. It might work as
claimed, but the air we breathe already is full of nitrogen. My only point
is, do not pay an upcharge for nitrogen. If they do it for free, then do not
refuse. But do not pay extra.

"Jeff Strickland" writes:

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.

--
Dan Espen


Worst advice ever. A tube will not work, that's why they do not put
them in. Firstly, without a rim that can be taken apart, the tire
mounting machine can pinch the tube and damage it before the first
pound of air goes in. Secondly, tubeless tires are built differently
than tube-type tires. Thirdly, the sidewall of a tire is by design the
weakest part of the tire, it is typically two-ply where the tread is
four-ply. The sidewall constantly moves and changes shape, and if
there is a tear, then the tear will be even weaker and a catastrophic
failure is all but certain.

At best, a tube will hold air. It will not make the sidewall
sufficient to carry the vehicle. Do not put a tube into a tubeless
tire. You have to go to the tire store to have the tire and rim broken
down, so they are the venue for putting the tube in and they will not
do it.

Oh, thanks. We all needed someone to quibble over what the word
"work" means.

I think my post was clear enough.

--
Dan Espen

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...

Oh, thanks. We all needed someone to quibble over what the word
"work" means.

I think my post was clear enough.

--
Dan Espen



That's the point, a tube should not work. A tube has Epic Fail written all
over it, hence, "Worst advice ever." I cleared your post up.

On 11/5/2014 12:57 PM, Sasquatch Jones wrote:
Thanks many times over everyone! Both front tires are both close to needing replacing anyway. I'll catch one of the Veterans Day sales.


I went to a wrecking yard and got some used tires.
Seems OK, and has more tread than the ones I took
off.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:11:48 -0800, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.

--
Dan Espen


Worst advice ever. A tube will not work, that's why they do not put them in.
Firstly, without a rim that can be taken apart, the tire mounting machine
can pinch the tube and damage it before the first pound of air goes in.

Jeff, tubes have been used on steel safety rims for several decades.
That's the exact same rim used on today's cars (alloy wheels have the
same rim profiles) You just have to know what you are doing. I've
installed a few hundred tires with tubes over my life as amechanic -
only damaged a very few tubes.

The bigger problem is tubeless tires have ridges on the inside that
cause heating when the flex against a tube - and radials are worse
than bias ply. There ARE special tubes made for use in radial tires
that work in tubeless tires but are NOT recommended for high speeds.

Also a bruised sidewall is likely to also damage the tube by abrasion
Secondly, tubeless tires are built differently than tube-type tires.
Thirdly, the sidewall of a tire is by design the weakest part of the tire,
it is typically two-ply where the tread is four-ply. The sidewall constantly
moves and changes shape, and if there is a tear, then the tear will be even
weaker and a catastrophic failure is all but certain.

Worse yet, the fabric on a radial sidewall is RADIAL - which makes it
even more fragile than a bias ply sidewall

At best, a tube will hold air. It will not make the sidewall sufficient to
carry the vehicle. Do not put a tube into a tubeless tire. You have to go to
the tire store to have the tire and rim broken down, so they are the venue
for putting the tube in and they will not do it.

On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:24:36 -0800, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of
sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged.
Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the
side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically
not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places
say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

===

Thanks many times over everyone! Both front tires are both close to needing
replacing anyway. I'll catch one of the Veterans Day sales.


I like America's Tire Stores, www.tires.com

Tire Rack, www.tirerack.com, is also a good choice. At Tire Rack, they ship
tires to you, and you take them to the tire store and pay an installation
charge. You can call the installer and see if they accept a drop-shipment.
America's Tire has a competitive price and they will get whatever you need
shipped in for free.

Costco has a limited selection, but the selection they have is pretty good.
They generally have a Good, Better, and Best option for each size.

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR NITROGEN. This is snake oil for tires. It might work as
claimed, but the air we breathe already is full of nitrogen. My only point
is, do not pay an upcharge for nitrogen. If they do it for free, then do not
refuse. But do not pay extra.




Up to $2.50 per tire extra for nitrogen fill can be rationalized. Any
more is highway robbery.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:24:36 -0800, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of
sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged.
Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on
the
side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say
specifically
not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places
say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

===

Thanks many times over everyone! Both front tires are both close to
needing
replacing anyway. I'll catch one of the Veterans Day sales.


I like America's Tire Stores, www.tires.com

Tire Rack, www.tirerack.com, is also a good choice. At Tire Rack, they
ship
tires to you, and you take them to the tire store and pay an installation
charge. You can call the installer and see if they accept a drop-shipment.
America's Tire has a competitive price and they will get whatever you need
shipped in for free.

Costco has a limited selection, but the selection they have is pretty
good.
They generally have a Good, Better, and Best option for each size.

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR NITROGEN. This is snake oil for tires. It might work
as
claimed, but the air we breathe already is full of nitrogen. My only point
is, do not pay an upcharge for nitrogen. If they do it for free, then do
not
refuse. But do not pay extra.




Up to $2.50 per tire extra for nitrogen fill can be rationalized. Any
more is highway robbery.


No, nitrogen is snake oil. The air we breathe is already something like 80%
nitrogen. You can do a search, but paying a tire shop for nitrogen is a
waste of money, $10.00 using your threshold.

It's not bad, it's only not worth paying for.

On 11/05/2014 4:25 PM, wrote:
....

Up to $2.50 per tire extra for nitrogen fill can be rationalized. Any
more is highway robbery.

"Rationalized" on basis of dealer cost, maybe, but I can't see there's
anything close to the payback possible for an ordinary passenger car
tire on an automobile driven routinely.

What minimal advantages there are really only accrue for extremely long
intervals between changes such as collector or antique vehicles or very
specialized applications such as racing or hazard duty where the
flammability in accident might conceivably be an added risk.

Otherwise, just nothing that it does is sufficient to make any
discernible difference in the bottom line to the end user.

--

On 11/5/2014 12:57 PM, Sasquatch Jones wrote:

Thanks many times over everyone! Both front tires are both close to needing replacing anyway. I'll catch one of the Veterans Day sales.

Check around for a good local tire shop. We have one in town and
everyday prices are as good or better than the chain stores. Service is
far better too!

Last year I put on a set of Nokian tires. A true all season tie for any
part of North America. Best tires I've ever had.

"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR NITROGEN. This is snake oil for tires. It might
work
as
claimed, but the air we breathe already is full of nitrogen. My only
point
is, do not pay an upcharge for nitrogen. If they do it for free, then do
not
refuse. But do not pay extra.




Up to $2.50 per tire extra for nitrogen fill can be rationalized. Any
more is highway robbery.


No, nitrogen is snake oil. The air we breathe is already something like
80% nitrogen. You can do a search, but paying a tire shop for nitrogen is
a waste of money, $10.00 using your threshold.


With the air in the tire already 80% nitrogen and the outside of all tires
has the same mix of 80 % nitrogen and 20% oxygen (with a trace of other
elements) what good does the all nitrogen do ? Especially if the car is
not driven enough to heat up the tires.



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"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR NITROGEN. This is snake oil for tires. It might
work
as
claimed, but the air we breathe already is full of nitrogen. My only
point
is, do not pay an upcharge for nitrogen. If they do it for free, then do
not
refuse. But do not pay extra.




Up to $2.50 per tire extra for nitrogen fill can be rationalized. Any
more is highway robbery.


No, nitrogen is snake oil. The air we breathe is already something like
80% nitrogen. You can do a search, but paying a tire shop for nitrogen is
a waste of money, $10.00 using your threshold.


With the air in the tire already 80% nitrogen and the outside of all tires
has the same mix of 80 % nitrogen and 20% oxygen (with a trace of other
elements) what good does the all nitrogen do ? Especially if the car is
not driven enough to heat up the tires.




The idea is that a molecule of nitrogen is larger, therefore it will seep
out slower. Let's assume this is true, is it worth money to forestall
putting more air into the tires someday? There's NOTHING WRONG with
nitrogen, the problem is paying for it.

'Buy our tires and get free nitrogen,' is a good sales pitch.

'Buy our tires, we'll put in nitrogen for ten bucks,' is ten bucks too much.

On 11/5/2014 6:50 PM, Jeff Strickland wrote:


The idea is that a molecule of nitrogen is larger, therefore it will
seep out slower. Let's assume this is true, is it worth money to
forestall putting more air into the tires someday? There's NOTHING WRONG
with nitrogen, the problem is paying for it.


It's been a few decades, but nitrogen
atomic weight 14, oxygen is 16.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Sasquatch Jones posted for all of us...

Along with all the posts in the thread the OP admits he needs new tires
anyway...

The latest information I have read is that the best tread should be mounted
to the rear axle.

--
Tekkie

100% true, but oxygen is more "electronegative", which means that it hoards it's electrons more closely to it's nucleus. It's the fact that the electron shells around an oxygen nucleus are smaller that make oxygen a smaller atom than nitrogen and O2 a smaller molecule than N2.

Except for Fluorine at 4.0, Oxygen is the most highly electronegative atom on the periodic table at 3.5

Bond Polarity

You gotta know this stuff to be king.

On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 18:33:15 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR NITROGEN. This is snake oil for tires. It might
work
as
claimed, but the air we breathe already is full of nitrogen. My only
point
is, do not pay an upcharge for nitrogen. If they do it for free, then do
not
refuse. But do not pay extra.




Up to $2.50 per tire extra for nitrogen fill can be rationalized. Any
more is highway robbery.


No, nitrogen is snake oil. The air we breathe is already something like
80% nitrogen. You can do a search, but paying a tire shop for nitrogen is
a waste of money, $10.00 using your threshold.


With the air in the tire already 80% nitrogen and the outside of all tires
has the same mix of 80 % nitrogen and 20% oxygen (with a trace of other
elements) what good does the all nitrogen do ? Especially if the car is
not driven enough to heat up the tires.

My cars often are. I found the tires inflated with nitrogen
maintained pressure better than when inflated with 80% nitrogen.
Marginally - but enough that I'll pay the $10 for a set of 4.
You may not find it worth while. That is your perogotive.


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On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:50:44 -0800, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR NITROGEN. This is snake oil for tires. It might
work
as
claimed, but the air we breathe already is full of nitrogen. My only
point
is, do not pay an upcharge for nitrogen. If they do it for free, then do
not
refuse. But do not pay extra.




Up to $2.50 per tire extra for nitrogen fill can be rationalized. Any
more is highway robbery.


No, nitrogen is snake oil. The air we breathe is already something like
80% nitrogen. You can do a search, but paying a tire shop for nitrogen is
a waste of money, $10.00 using your threshold.


With the air in the tire already 80% nitrogen and the outside of all tires
has the same mix of 80 % nitrogen and 20% oxygen (with a trace of other
elements) what good does the all nitrogen do ? Especially if the car is
not driven enough to heat up the tires.




The idea is that a molecule of nitrogen is larger, therefore it will seep
out slower. Let's assume this is true, is it worth money to forestall
putting more air into the tires someday? There's NOTHING WRONG with
nitrogen, the problem is paying for it.

'Buy our tires and get free nitrogen,' is a good sales pitch.

'Buy our tires, we'll put in nitrogen for ten bucks,' is ten bucks too much.
Ten bucks too much for you. That's fine. On a $1000 purchace, what is
$10.00??? Or even on a $600.00 purchace.

Jeff Strickland wrote:

You have to go to
the tire store to have the tire and rim broken down, so they are the venue
for putting the tube in and they will not do it.

I'll try to remember that the next time I'm mounting new tires on my bike.

wrote:

Jeff, tubes have been used on steel safety rims for several decades.
That's the exact same rim used on today's cars (alloy wheels have the
same rim profiles) You just have to know what you are doing. I've
installed a few hundred tires with tubes over my life as amechanic -
only damaged a very few tubes.

The 'know what you are doing' part is the rub. I bought a set of tube type
tires in Knoxville and the inbred knuckledraggers managed to pinch all four
tubes. Thanks to copious quantities of fix-a-flat and a portable air pump, I
made it back to Arizona. Mexican mechanics still understand tubes.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Last year I put on a set of Nokian tires. A true all season tie for any
part of North America. Best tires I've ever had.

I had a set of Nokian studs on the last car. One thing Finns understand is
driving on ice and snow. They even make studded bicycle tires.