I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

SJ

"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of
sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged.
Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the
side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically
not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places
say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

---------

have done just that in the past.

"Pico Rico" wrote in message
...

"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of
sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged.
Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on
the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say
specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places
say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

---------

have done just that in the past.

let me add: mine was a radial tire and I got many miles out of it with the
tube. However the hole in the sidewall was the tiniest of holes from
hitting the curb, not your 1/2" jagged fright.

"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.

--
Dan Espen

On 11/4/2014 2:20 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.


Yeah - Your not supposed to patch a side wall. Mostly it's due to the
flexing the sidewall does, the patch won't hold long anyway but that
1/2" tear you got will end up weakening and as the previous poster
mentioned, a blowout could happen. Don't ever stick a plug in the side
wall either - That will spread the steel bands and weaken the wall
worse. I've gotten away with having a plug stuck in on the very edge of
the tread before, (but still facing the road) where your not supposed to
have one, but was in a situation where I had no choice. Still fine
after 30K miles there, but never would I do a sidewall. I don't see why
a tube wouldn't be fine, but would patch the tire on the inside so no
chance of the tube having any issues with where the cut was.

But all in all, with the price for a tube & repair why not just get a
new tire? If your really hard up for $$, you can even buy used with
decent tread left. I've never done it before, but have seen used tire
places so someone does..

On 11/4/2014 2:45 PM, IYM wrote:
On 11/4/2014 2:20 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.


Yeah - Your not supposed to patch a side wall. Mostly it's due to the
flexing the sidewall does, the patch won't hold long anyway but that
1/2" tear you got will end up weakening and as the previous poster
mentioned, a blowout could happen. Don't ever stick a plug in the side
wall either - That will spread the steel bands and weaken the wall
worse. I've gotten away with having a plug stuck in on the very edge of
the tread before, (but still facing the road) where your not supposed to
have one, but was in a situation where I had no choice. Still fine
after 30K miles there, but never would I do a sidewall. I don't see why
a tube wouldn't be fine, but would patch the tire on the inside so no
chance of the tube having any issues with where the cut was.

But all in all, with the price for a tube & repair why not just get a
new tire? If your really hard up for $$, you can even buy used with
decent tread left. I've never done it before, but have seen used tire
places so someone does..

I agree.
Steel is in the belt and sidewalls are probably polyester plies.
If these are cut, tire would be at risk to patch as flexing is in the
sidewall and any repair would probably not be permanent.

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 14:45:22 -0500, IYM
wrote:

On 11/4/2014 2:20 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.


Yeah - Your not supposed to patch a side wall. Mostly it's due to the
flexing the sidewall does, the patch won't hold long anyway but that
1/2" tear you got will end up weakening and as the previous poster
mentioned, a blowout could happen. Don't ever stick a plug in the side
wall either - That will spread the steel bands and weaken the wall
worse.
Strange - I've NEVER seen a radial tire with steel in the sidewalls.
I've gotten away with having a plug stuck in on the very edge of
the tread before, (but still facing the road) where your not supposed to
have one, but was in a situation where I had no choice. Still fine
after 30K miles there, but never would I do a sidewall. I don't see why
a tube wouldn't be fine, but would patch the tire on the inside so no
chance of the tube having any issues with where the cut was.

But all in all, with the price for a tube & repair why not just get a
new tire? If your really hard up for $$, you can even buy used with
decent tread left. I've never done it before, but have seen used tire
places so someone does..

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 14:45:22 -0500, IYM
wrote:

On 11/4/2014 2:20 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.


Yeah - Your not supposed to patch a side wall. Mostly it's due to the
flexing the sidewall does, the patch won't hold long anyway but that
1/2" tear you got will end up weakening and as the previous poster
mentioned, a blowout could happen. Don't ever stick a plug in the side
wall either - That will spread the steel bands and weaken the wall
worse.


Strange - I've NEVER seen a radial tire with steel in the sidewalls.


You are correct, there is no steel in the sidewall. Steel belts are only in
the tread area.

IYM wrote:

But all in all, with the price for a tube & repair why not just get a
new tire? If your really hard up for $$, you can even buy used with
decent tread left. I've never done it before, but have seen used tire
places so someone does..

I picked up 3 decent tires on craigslist. The guy had damaged one of the set
and was anal enough that he didn't want a mismatched tire.

As for the OP, my pickup doesn't get out much and is on retreads that are
old enough to vote. Two have developed sidewall leaks just sitting in the
driveway. I figured if they were that far gone I would trust a tube, hence
craigslist. I just couldn't see dropping $150 a tire for something that gets
out of the driveway once a year or so.

When I was looking, I saw a lot of tires on craigslist.

Here in Winnipeg there's a place called the Tire Exchange.

They fix leaks from driving over nails or screws by:
1. Taking the tire off the rim
2. Cleaning the tire on the inside around the hole
3. Putting a patch over the hole on the inside,
4. Using a special heater (called a Vulcanizer) to melt the patch over the hole on the inside of the tire.
5. Putting the tire back on the rim with a new stem and re-inflating.

They can do that work in about a half hour.

I would phone around to find out if anyone does those kind of repairs in your area. You should be able to find someone who patches from the inside with a vulcanizing machine.

If not, and if it wuz me, I would probably buy a repair kit for bicycle tires and use that. Have the tire taken off the rim and patch the sidewall from the inside with a bicycle tire inside patch. Still, if you can find a tire shop that installs patches from the inside, that'd be the way to go.

There's a lot of concern over the safety of driving on a repaired tire in this thread. To address those concerns, I'd rotate the repaired tire to the right rear position. That way, if you get a blow-out, it's not on a steering tire, and if you have front wheel drive, it's not on a traction tire either. Also, any blow-out you do get would cause the car to drift to the right instead of to the left into oncoming traffic.

On 11/4/2014 2:20 PM, Dan Espen wrote:

A tube should work, but any kind of
cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.


Some decades ago, I used to have box of
sidewall patches. NOt sure I'd trust one.

I'd also suggest replace.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 15:53:14 -0700, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/4/2014 2:20 PM, Dan Espen wrote:

A tube should work, but any kind of
cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.


Some decades ago, I used to have box of
sidewall patches. NOt sure I'd trust one.

I'd also suggest replace.

-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

if a radial, the tire is now compromised and is DANGEROUS. Sorry replace
it.

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.

--
Dan Espen


Worst advice ever. A tube will not work, that's why they do not put them in.
Firstly, without a rim that can be taken apart, the tire mounting machine
can pinch the tube and damage it before the first pound of air goes in.
Secondly, tubeless tires are built differently than tube-type tires.
Thirdly, the sidewall of a tire is by design the weakest part of the tire,
it is typically two-ply where the tread is four-ply. The sidewall constantly
moves and changes shape, and if there is a tear, then the tear will be even
weaker and a catastrophic failure is all but certain.

At best, a tube will hold air. It will not make the sidewall sufficient to
carry the vehicle. Do not put a tube into a tubeless tire. You have to go to
the tire store to have the tire and rim broken down, so they are the venue
for putting the tube in and they will not do it.

"Jeff Strickland" writes:

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.

--
Dan Espen


Worst advice ever. A tube will not work, that's why they do not put
them in. Firstly, without a rim that can be taken apart, the tire
mounting machine can pinch the tube and damage it before the first
pound of air goes in. Secondly, tubeless tires are built differently
than tube-type tires. Thirdly, the sidewall of a tire is by design the
weakest part of the tire, it is typically two-ply where the tread is
four-ply. The sidewall constantly moves and changes shape, and if
there is a tear, then the tear will be even weaker and a catastrophic
failure is all but certain.

At best, a tube will hold air. It will not make the sidewall
sufficient to carry the vehicle. Do not put a tube into a tubeless
tire. You have to go to the tire store to have the tire and rim broken
down, so they are the venue for putting the tube in and they will not
do it.

Oh, thanks. We all needed someone to quibble over what the word
"work" means.

I think my post was clear enough.

--
Dan Espen

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...

Oh, thanks. We all needed someone to quibble over what the word
"work" means.

I think my post was clear enough.

--
Dan Espen



That's the point, a tube should not work. A tube has Epic Fail written all
over it, hence, "Worst advice ever." I cleared your post up.

On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:11:48 -0800, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.

--
Dan Espen


Worst advice ever. A tube will not work, that's why they do not put them in.
Firstly, without a rim that can be taken apart, the tire mounting machine
can pinch the tube and damage it before the first pound of air goes in.

Jeff, tubes have been used on steel safety rims for several decades.
That's the exact same rim used on today's cars (alloy wheels have the
same rim profiles) You just have to know what you are doing. I've
installed a few hundred tires with tubes over my life as amechanic -
only damaged a very few tubes.

The bigger problem is tubeless tires have ridges on the inside that
cause heating when the flex against a tube - and radials are worse
than bias ply. There ARE special tubes made for use in radial tires
that work in tubeless tires but are NOT recommended for high speeds.

Also a bruised sidewall is likely to also damage the tube by abrasion
Secondly, tubeless tires are built differently than tube-type tires.
Thirdly, the sidewall of a tire is by design the weakest part of the tire,
it is typically two-ply where the tread is four-ply. The sidewall constantly
moves and changes shape, and if there is a tear, then the tear will be even
weaker and a catastrophic failure is all but certain.

Worse yet, the fabric on a radial sidewall is RADIAL - which makes it
even more fragile than a bias ply sidewall

At best, a tube will hold air. It will not make the sidewall sufficient to
carry the vehicle. Do not put a tube into a tubeless tire. You have to go to
the tire store to have the tire and rim broken down, so they are the venue
for putting the tube in and they will not do it.

wrote:

Jeff, tubes have been used on steel safety rims for several decades.
That's the exact same rim used on today's cars (alloy wheels have the
same rim profiles) You just have to know what you are doing. I've
installed a few hundred tires with tubes over my life as amechanic -
only damaged a very few tubes.

The 'know what you are doing' part is the rub. I bought a set of tube type
tires in Knoxville and the inbred knuckledraggers managed to pinch all four
tubes. Thanks to copious quantities of fix-a-flat and a portable air pump, I
made it back to Arizona. Mexican mechanics still understand tubes.

On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 21:54:26 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

wrote:

Jeff, tubes have been used on steel safety rims for several decades.
That's the exact same rim used on today's cars (alloy wheels have the
same rim profiles) You just have to know what you are doing. I've
installed a few hundred tires with tubes over my life as amechanic -
only damaged a very few tubes.

The 'know what you are doing' part is the rub. I bought a set of tube type
tires in Knoxville and the inbred knuckledraggers managed to pinch all four
tubes. Thanks to copious quantities of fix-a-flat and a portable air pump, I
made it back to Arizona. Mexican mechanics still understand tubes.
The "secret" is simply to lightly inflate the tube before installing
the second bead, then inflate to low pressure, bounce the wheel, and
inflate to seat the bead. Sure isn't rocket science!!!

Jeff Strickland wrote:

You have to go to
the tire store to have the tire and rim broken down, so they are the venue
for putting the tube in and they will not do it.

I'll try to remember that the next time I'm mounting new tires on my bike.

"rbowman" wrote in message
...
Jeff Strickland wrote:

You have to go to
the tire store to have the tire and rim broken down, so they are the
venue
for putting the tube in and they will not do it.

I'll try to remember that the next time I'm mounting new tires on my bike.



Different tire. Absolutely no comparison after the part about rubber and
round.

Jeff Strickland wrote:


"rbowman" wrote in message
...
Jeff Strickland wrote:

You have to go to
the tire store to have the tire and rim broken down, so they are the
venue
for putting the tube in and they will not do it.

I'll try to remember that the next time I'm mounting new tires on my
bike.



Different tire. Absolutely no comparison after the part about rubber and
round.

A rim is a rim, a tire is a tire, and a set of tire irons is a set of tire
irons. The last time I had a problem breaking a tire down was on a '51
Chevy. Back then you had a bumper jack with a flat foot plate and the
standard method was to put the plate on the bead and jack away. I knew I had
a problem when the car went up and the bead didn't let go.

On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 1:11:58 PM UTC-5, Jeff Strickland wrote:
"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.

--
Dan Espen


Worst advice ever. A tube will not work, that's why they do not put them in.
Firstly, without a rim that can be taken apart, the tire mounting machine
can pinch the tube and damage it before the first pound of air goes in.

Total nonsense. Autos, AFAIK, never had rims that came apart and tires with
tubes were mounted to them before the switch to all tubeless.


Secondly, tubeless tires are built differently than tube-type tires.

That's probably true. IDK about putting a tube in a tubeless, other than
I've never seen it done.



Thirdly, the sidewall of a tire is by design the weakest part of the tire,
it is typically two-ply where the tread is four-ply. The sidewall constantly
moves and changes shape, and if there is a tear, then the tear will be even
weaker and a catastrophic failure is all but certain.


Agree that I would not patch a sidewall.

On 11/5/2014 1:11 PM, Jeff Strickland wrote:

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" writes:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind
of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but
jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something
like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but
don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire
places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why
not.

A tube should work, but any kind of cut could lead to a blow out.
Especially one on the side wall.
I say replace the tire.

--
Dan Espen


Worst advice ever. A tube will not work, that's why they do not put them
in. Firstly, without a rim that can be taken apart, the tire mounting
machine can pinch the tube and damage it before the first pound of air
goes in. Secondly, tubeless tires are built differently than tube-type
tires. Thirdly, the sidewall of a tire is by design the weakest part of
the tire, it is typically two-ply where the tread is four-ply. The
sidewall constantly moves and changes shape, and if there is a tear,
then the tear will be even weaker and a catastrophic failure is all but
certain.

At best, a tube will hold air. It will not make the sidewall sufficient
to carry the vehicle. Do not put a tube into a tubeless tire. You have
to go to the tire store to have the tire and rim broken down, so they
are the venue for putting the tube in and they will not do it.



Just out of morbid curiosity, did you ever work at a place that
installed tires (I did). If you had, you would know that practically
all auto and light truck rims are one piece (the OP didn't say what kid
of vehicle). You would also know that tires with tubes were routinely
installed on those rims without incident (except for the odd idiot that
was not paying attention to what he was doing). There was also a
specific tube for radial tires that could stand more flex than tubes for
bias ply tire tubes. A puncture in a bias ply sidewall could be
repaired. Not so for a radial. However, if it was just a puncture the
radial could be used by putting in the proper tube.

I agree that in this case the tire should be replaced, but not for the
reason you state.

On 11/6/2014 10:31 AM, Mike wrote:

I agree that in this case the tire should be replaced, but not for the
reason you state.

Good thing you did not say what those reasons are. We'd not want you to
educate anyone.

On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 1:55:53 PM UTC-5, Sasquatch Jones wrote:
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

SJ

Typically the flexing renders any fix sort term. That's why they say not to try to repair sidewalls.

I had a friend who had a puncture in his tire sidewall. No one would fix it, until he found a tire shop that would fix it for cash.

It lasted about 9 months, until on a trip between San Diego and the Bay Area it blew on Interstate 5 in the central valley of California. The Expedition caught the shoulder and rolled, killing him, paralyzing one of his passengers, and seriously injuring the other four.

On 11/4/2014 3:17 PM, wrote:
I had a friend who had a puncture in his tire sidewall. No one would fix it, until he found a tire shop that would fix it for cash.

It lasted about 9 months, until on a trip between San Diego and the Bay Area it blew on Interstate 5 in the central valley of California. The Expedition caught the shoulder and rolled, killing him, paralyzing one of his passengers, and seriously injuring the other four.


A long time ago I did some tire cord R&D.
We had a test where tires were run and load and speed increased until
catastrophic failure. I've seen pictures of these tires before failure
and they were frightening in how much they deformed and flexed. You
don't want to run your tires any where near the max or have a defective
tire running at high speed.

On 11/4/2014 3:17 PM, wrote:
I had a friend who had a puncture in his tire sidewall. No one would fix it, until he found a tire shop that would fix it for cash.

It lasted about 9 months, until on a trip between San Diego and the Bay Area it blew on Interstate 5 in the central valley of California. The Expedition caught the shoulder and rolled, killing him, paralyzing one of his passengers, and seriously injuring the other four.


Gosh, it was worth it saving him a few bucks. Got another idiot off the
highways for good.

Sasquatch Jones wrote:
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

SJ


Hi,
Safety #1. right? I'd try to find a similar used tire.
I wouldn't have peace of mind if I have a tire with side wall
problem specially driving on freeway.

On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:55:19 -0800, "Sasquatch Jones"
wrote:

I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

SJ

Radial sidewalls are quite fragile -and repairing them is generally
not recommended. A clean puncture is one thing, but a "bruise" is
another. If it has not damaged any cords (unlikely by your
description) a tube MIGHT be acceptable - but it must be a tube made
for radial tires - such as a Michelin AirStop. Even then, heating can
be a problem. I would STRONGLY recommend replacing the tire.

"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged. Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

===

Thanks many times over everyone! Both front tires are both close to needing replacing anyway. I'll catch one of the Veterans Day sales.

"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of
sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged.
Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the
side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically
not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places
say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

===

Thanks many times over everyone! Both front tires are both close to needing
replacing anyway. I'll catch one of the Veterans Day sales.


I like America's Tire Stores, www.tires.com

Tire Rack, www.tirerack.com, is also a good choice. At Tire Rack, they ship
tires to you, and you take them to the tire store and pay an installation
charge. You can call the installer and see if they accept a drop-shipment.
America's Tire has a competitive price and they will get whatever you need
shipped in for free.

Costco has a limited selection, but the selection they have is pretty good.
They generally have a Good, Better, and Best option for each size.

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR NITROGEN. This is snake oil for tires. It might work as
claimed, but the air we breathe already is full of nitrogen. My only point
is, do not pay an upcharge for nitrogen. If they do it for free, then do not
refuse. But do not pay extra.

On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:24:36 -0800, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of
sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged.
Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on the
side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say specifically
not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places
say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

===

Thanks many times over everyone! Both front tires are both close to needing
replacing anyway. I'll catch one of the Veterans Day sales.


I like America's Tire Stores, www.tires.com

Tire Rack, www.tirerack.com, is also a good choice. At Tire Rack, they ship
tires to you, and you take them to the tire store and pay an installation
charge. You can call the installer and see if they accept a drop-shipment.
America's Tire has a competitive price and they will get whatever you need
shipped in for free.

Costco has a limited selection, but the selection they have is pretty good.
They generally have a Good, Better, and Best option for each size.

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR NITROGEN. This is snake oil for tires. It might work as
claimed, but the air we breathe already is full of nitrogen. My only point
is, do not pay an upcharge for nitrogen. If they do it for free, then do not
refuse. But do not pay extra.




Up to $2.50 per tire extra for nitrogen fill can be rationalized. Any
more is highway robbery.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:24:36 -0800, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
"Sasquatch Jones" wrote in message
...
I have a slow lead in the side wall that came from scraping some kind of
sharp object laying by the curb. Looks like a 1/2-inch cut, but jagged.
Tire is tubeless radial. Is it possible to patch something like this on
the
side wall? Patch kits say they are for the tread but don't say
specifically
not to use them on the side.

2nd thought -- can I put a tube in it? Seems like I remember tire places
say tubeless can't be fixed with a tube, but I can't see why not.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

===

Thanks many times over everyone! Both front tires are both close to
needing
replacing anyway. I'll catch one of the Veterans Day sales.


I like America's Tire Stores, www.tires.com

Tire Rack, www.tirerack.com, is also a good choice. At Tire Rack, they
ship
tires to you, and you take them to the tire store and pay an installation
charge. You can call the installer and see if they accept a drop-shipment.
America's Tire has a competitive price and they will get whatever you need
shipped in for free.

Costco has a limited selection, but the selection they have is pretty
good.
They generally have a Good, Better, and Best option for each size.

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR NITROGEN. This is snake oil for tires. It might work
as
claimed, but the air we breathe already is full of nitrogen. My only point
is, do not pay an upcharge for nitrogen. If they do it for free, then do
not
refuse. But do not pay extra.




Up to $2.50 per tire extra for nitrogen fill can be rationalized. Any
more is highway robbery.


No, nitrogen is snake oil. The air we breathe is already something like 80%
nitrogen. You can do a search, but paying a tire shop for nitrogen is a
waste of money, $10.00 using your threshold.

It's not bad, it's only not worth paying for.

"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
...

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR NITROGEN. This is snake oil for tires. It might
work
as
claimed, but the air we breathe already is full of nitrogen. My only
point
is, do not pay an upcharge for nitrogen. If they do it for free, then do
not
refuse. But do not pay extra.




Up to $2.50 per tire extra for nitrogen fill can be rationalized. Any
more is highway robbery.


No, nitrogen is snake oil. The air we breathe is already something like
80% nitrogen. You can do a search, but paying a tire shop for nitrogen is
a waste of money, $10.00 using your threshold.


With the air in the tire already 80% nitrogen and the outside of all tires
has the same mix of 80 % nitrogen and 20% oxygen (with a trace of other
elements) what good does the all nitrogen do ? Especially if the car is
not driven enough to heat up the tires.



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On 11/5/2014 2:53 PM, Jeff Strickland wrote:

No, nitrogen is snake oil. The air we breathe is already something like
80% nitrogen.

You do not understand the difference between dry nitrogen and the air we
breathe.

What you should be saying is this "a tire shop fills your tires with air
from a compressor that has a dryer attached to it. The drier removes
much of the moisture from the air."

Costco likely calculated that the cost of compressor dryers, in terms of
energy and maintenance, increased tire warranty repair costs, and labor
costs dealing with customers coming in with TPMS issues, made including
nitrogen at no extra cost a good idea financially.

Tire stores have nitrogen generators they don't get nitrogen deliveries.
The incremental cost of nitrogen to the tire store once they purchase
the machine is trivial, membrane and filter replacement only.

The bottom line is "don't pay extra for nitrogen and don't buy tires at
any store that does not include nitrogen at no extra charge."

On 11/05/2014 4:25 PM, wrote:
....

Up to $2.50 per tire extra for nitrogen fill can be rationalized. Any
more is highway robbery.

"Rationalized" on basis of dealer cost, maybe, but I can't see there's
anything close to the payback possible for an ordinary passenger car
tire on an automobile driven routinely.

What minimal advantages there are really only accrue for extremely long
intervals between changes such as collector or antique vehicles or very
specialized applications such as racing or hazard duty where the
flammability in accident might conceivably be an added risk.

Otherwise, just nothing that it does is sufficient to make any
discernible difference in the bottom line to the end user.

--

On 11/5/2014 3:11 PM, dpb wrote:
On 11/05/2014 4:25 PM, wrote:
...

Up to $2.50 per tire extra for nitrogen fill can be rationalized. Any
more is highway robbery.

"Rationalized" on basis of dealer cost, maybe, but I can't see there's
anything close to the payback possible for an ordinary passenger car
tire on an automobile driven routinely.

What minimal advantages there are really only accrue for extremely long
intervals between changes such as collector or antique vehicles or very
specialized applications such as racing or hazard duty where the
flammability in accident might conceivably be an added risk.

Otherwise, just nothing that it does is sufficient to make any
discernible difference in the bottom line to the end user.

Not true. There is a discernible advantage, but not one that is worth
paying anything extra for. Just never buy tires at a retailer that does
not include nitrogen inflation at no extra charge.

On 11/5/2014 10:24 AM, Jeff Strickland wrote:

snip

DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR NITROGEN. This is snake oil for tires. It might
work as claimed, but the air we breathe already is full of nitrogen. My
only point is, do not pay an upcharge for nitrogen. If they do it for
free, then do not refuse. But do not pay extra.

It isn't just the fact that it's nitrogen versus a mix that includes
nitrogen, there are other reasons for using nitrogen versus air as well.

The reason that Costco doesn't charge for nitrogen is not a marketing
ploy, the use of nitrogen reduces failures and Costco is one tire store
that actually honors its road hazard and tread life warranties. The cost
to them of including nitrogen is trivial given the benefits to them.

If you have a source of pure dry air for your tires, and check the
pressure often, and adjust for temperature changes, then plain air is
just fine. Tire stores will have driers on their compressors to remove
some moisture from air but it's not as moisture free as nitrogen.

But you're right, paying extra for nitrogen versus dry air isn't worth
it since most tire stores charge at least $5 per tire for it. And of
course you can always go to Costco and add nitrogen to your tires for
free. They have a hose there near the entrance to one of the bays.

One issue that comes up more and more is very sensitive TPMS systems. If
you're right at either edge (high or low) then pressure changes due to
tempearature will activate the TPMS warning light. Dry nitrogen has less
pressure changes due to temperature than moist air.

One other thing, is if you have a TPMS sensor fail (flashing TPMS
warning light at start-up) Costco does replacements at a cost far less
than the dealer. The batteries in the factory sensors fail at about 7
years. I just had them replace one last month. The next time I get new
tires I'll have them replace the other three since they are all going to
fail within a year and if they change them while they are doing mounting
and balancing there's no additional labor charge.

"SMS" wrote in message
...
One other thing, is if you have a TPMS sensor fail (flashing TPMS
warning light at start-up) Costco does replacements at a cost far less
than the dealer. The batteries in the factory sensors fail at about 7
years. I just had them replace one last month. The next time I get new
tires I'll have them replace the other three since they are all going to
fail within a year and if they change them while they are doing mounting
and balancing there's no additional labor charge.

I have a 2007 and 2008 and the TPMS have failed on both of them. I have no
intention of getting them replaced. I think I was quoted a proce of about $
60 to $ 80 for each wheel. That is getting close to the price of a tire.

The 2007 has about 55,000 miles on it and the 2008 has about 25, 000 on it.
I hae replaced the factory tires on both of them with some 80,000 mile
tires. I should trade by the time I need tires again.



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