On Feb 25, 7:06*pm, "Attila Iskander"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 09:58:14 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

In Europe we let the train take the strain. Or the bus.
Or fly.

What do you do for transportation when you get there?
When we fly, we still end up renting a car. I typically put over 1500
miles on the rental if we are out west. The record was in the Dakotas,
2300 miles in 3 weeks. Stuff you want to see is far apart out there.

Most Euros have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE as to the distances that are considered
normal in the US.
My cousin from Hungary, *thought it completely crazy to hop in the car to
drive 120 miles/ 2 hours, one way, for a weekend in the cabin. Even though
it amazed him to see 8 deer checking him out on the back porch at less than
15 yards.

Hungary=hillbillyland.
There is more culture/history than the USA
However he's right about long drives.
The USA is full of nothing. Especially in the middle.
This is the reason they sit in their themed basement/bars drink
chemicals (which they think is beer) and play with their guns and talk
about cars.

Maybe in a thousand years you might have a little culture.

I can look up now and see 2000 years of history .
There are twenty odd places of interest within twenty miles.
Many you could spend days exploring.
And if you drive, the roads are interesting.

On Feb 25, 7:23*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
harry wrote:

On Feb 25, 12:42 pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 2/25/2013 1:51 AM, harry wrote:

On Feb 24, 9:42 pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 2/24/2013 1:42 PM, dsi1 wrote:

On 2/24/2013 2:46 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

The P.L.L.C.F. are always trying to push junk science and technology.
Electric vehicles have their place but the Moonbats are determined to
push immature technology upon the citizenry especially when there is
no widely established infrastructure to support it. When you see The
President and congressmen traveling around in battery powered limousines
and The Capital and White House powered completely by solar
cells and windmills, the technology will be ready for the masses.. Until
that happens I'll be very skeptical that the present national energy and
transportation infrastructure should be scrapped for something from
La La Land. ^_^

TDD

It's a good thing for us that folks who said that the infrastructure was
not in place and that the moonbats were trying to replace horses and
buggys with new-fangled automobiles were unable to convince the
citizenry of their anti-progressive ways. What model carriage do you
drive, sir? :-)

Don't be silly, the primitive automobiles were few in number and the
highway system didn't exist at the time not to mention the relatively
tiny population in those days. Electric vehicles will be wonderful if
the infrastructure is allowed to develop and evolve slowly and with the
demands of the market the same way the internal combustion engine based
transportation infrastructure did. Moonbats believe the present
transportation infrastructure can be scrapped and changed overnight. If
you remember history, our politicians didn't use the newfangled gasoline
powered automobiles and airplanes until the technology matured as much
as the rail and steamship travel had become and widely used safely by a
large number of people. Last week I had to spend a few days working at
the Northern end of the state which was a two hour drive. There is no
windmill and solar cell powered vehicle in existence that would have
made it possible for me and JH to transport ourselves and a half ton of
tools and equipment to the job site and back. So my assertion of the
moonbattery of the Progressive Liberal Leftist Commiecrat Freaks still
stands. ^_^

TDD

You charge your car up at home at night Duf.
So there are charging stations everywhere.
The problem is; range and the time it takes to charge from a domestic
outlet.

Electric vehicles are wonderful for the capabilities they have. The
electric car can never take the place of a gasoline powered vehicle
until it has the range and convenience of what we have now. Perhaps
a small nuclear reactor would give an electrically driven vehicle the
ability to travel long distances without having to stop every 50 miles
to recharge the battery. My concept of vehicle range is one that travels
far enough and long enough so that I must stop to empty my bladder
before the vehicle runs out of power. ^_^

TDD

My electric car take me everywhere I need to go. 80 miles range max.

If I do go outside the range, *I have to stay long enough to recharge
it.
*Depending on the charge point that could be eight hours or
*20 minutes. This is very infrequent for me.

* *I drive a full size pickup, and the bed is rarely empty. *Can you
haul a ton of marble chips in your little windup? How about a dozen full
size sheets of plywood? *15 computer monitors, or 35 computers?

Is that the only vehicle you possess?
I bet you go shopping with your pickup filled with trash in the back.

On Feb 25, 7:24*pm, Transition Zone wrote:
On Feb 25, 12:58*pm, harry wrote:







On Feb 25, 4:56*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Electric vehicles are wonderful for the capabilities they have. The
electric car can never take the place of a gasoline powered vehicle
until it has the range and convenience of what we have now. Perhaps
a small nuclear reactor would give an electrically driven vehicle the
ability to travel long distances without having to stop every 50 miles
to recharge the battery. My concept of vehicle range is one that travels
far enough and long enough so that I must stop to empty my bladder
before the vehicle runs out of power. ^_^

* *There were five mounting locations for 30 gallon tanks on my old
stepvan service truck. *Fully loaded, it got over 20 MPG or 600+ miles
per tank. Dual tanks easily let you drive over a thousand miles. *All
five would take you over 3000 miles, if you could afford to fill all of
them. ;-)

* In Europe we let the train take the strain. *Or the bus.

*Or fly.

North of Washington, we do that in the states, too.

Ah. The area first colonised, hence the most civilised:-)

I expect they still have wagon trains in the midwest.
Or they remember them at least.

On 2/25/2013 11:40 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 2/25/2013 10:48 AM, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 3:14 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

You've obviously never met a wide eyed dumbass who voted for the present
administration. Electric vehicles haven't been developed
to the point that they can take the place of existing internal
combustion engine powered vehicles except for short range commuting
which I think is a wonderful use for them. An electric vehicle is
not suitable for my use because I often must travel a hundred miles
or more in a day and carry a load of tools and equipment. There is
no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could afford
that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline powered
service van. O_o

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?


You still don't grok the reality of modern transportation. My favorite
small car was my 1967 Renault 10. It had an 1108cc four cylinder liquid
cooled rear engine and was a great deal of fun to drive. It weighed
1730lbs and would be a great candidate for a DIY electrical conversion.
I could hop in the munchkin mobile and drive it a minimum of 300 miles
without refueling but there is no "electric only" car I know of that can
accomplish such a feat. To me, time is money and I can't screw around
waiting for my transportation to recharge it's batteries when someone
calls for my help. I'm actually looking for a small vehicle to zip
around in but an electric vehicle would still not be suitable for that
purpose. Understand this, I like electric vehicles for the jobs they're
capable of doing. They are not a panacea for an energy shortage by any
means and if you knew the whole story of the real cost of electric cars,
you know that they're not as Green and nonpolluting as you may have been
led to believe. O_o

TDD


I don't have any pie-in-the-sky idea that the electric car will solve
the world's problems. Whatever gave you that idea? Beats the hell out of
me how they're gonna generate all the electricity. My solution would be
to build a ****load of nuke powerplants in Alaska and send the power
South. I doubt that will happen but I don't believe that the technical
problems are too big to solve. We built a frickin' interstate highway
system out of practically nothing, didn't we? Now that must have seemed
like an impossible task at the beginning.

On Feb 25, 7:39*pm, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 7:50 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:



dsi1 wrote:

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?

* * Normal citizens? *What are you smoking?

"There is no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could
afford that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline
powered service van."

I expect horse wagon drivers said much the same thing once upon a time
when ICE engined trucks appeared.

On Feb 25, 8:35*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 11:16:17 -0500, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 02:52:06 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 05:52:44 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

Idears?? *Opinions?

Here's my idea. *Check this
http://gm-volt.com/forum/forumdispla...ship-Forum&ord....

Cool, it answered one of my questions. The engine runs in cold weather
to heat the cabin and battery.
I am guessing it runs the A/C too.

My understanding is the battery heating circuit is isolated from the
engine cooling circuit. *The battery provides it's own juice.
The ICE starts when outside temp drops below 26F, to warm the cabin.
For later model 2012 and for 2013 models the temp point is 35F.
Some owners don't like that, and would be happy with just the electric
heated seats, so the ICE doesn't come on and make them buy gas.
Speculation is it's a safety issue - defogging the windows.
But it's probably more a marketing issue - using all electric cabin
heating would reduce the all-electric range, which is a big selling
point. *OTOH, real "gasoline-haters," would probably prefer a shorter
all-electric range, and only hear the ICE kick in when they push
against range.
And the A/C is all electric HP, not ICE. *I've seen different posters
saying A/C cost them 10-30% of range. *Probably depends on "mode" and
where they set the temp, just like any A/C.
Thing is the A/C not only cools the cabin, but the battery too.
Think that kicks in at 86F..
The thermal management system is pretty sophisticated.
I've seen some discussion about the Nissan Leaf having inadequate
cooling (air-cooling) but don't know how real the concerns are.
Anyway, heating and cooling reduces the Volt all-electric range
automatically except in the 35-85F range, to maintain the battery and
defog windows. *And the owner can reduce it further by jacking the
cabin temp up or down.

I have an I-miev. The cab can be pre-heated (or pre-cooled) whilst on
charge. Use of heating/cooling whilst in motion significantly reduces
range

The batteries are cooled whilst on charge because (with the Leaf)
there were issues of rapid battery deterioration in hot climates.
(Like losing 80% of range in a year)

On Feb 25, 9:41*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
+1
nominated for best post of the week.

Didn't mention elephants, or Volkswagens, either.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

news
Why would any sane person buy a limited range car? That's *nuts*.
Why do people buy short ladders?
Because they are nuts.
Because they don't need a long one

They buy short ladders because a long one won't fit in the trunk of a
Volt.

So which car will they fit in?

On 2/25/2013 11:20 PM, harry wrote:
On Feb 25, 7:39 pm, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 7:50 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:



dsi1 wrote:

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?

Normal citizens? What are you smoking?

"There is no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could
afford that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline
powered service van."

I expect horse wagon drivers said much the same thing once upon a time
when ICE engined trucks appeared.


The guys that complain about the deficiencies of the electric car must
think that the gas-powered internal combustion engine vehicles sprang up
fully developed in the early 20th century. The reality is that it took
about 50 years to get it right. Those guys deserve to drive horse carts.
:-)

On Feb 26, 12:15*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Attila Iskander wrote:

But that comment again demonstrates how provincial harry's mindset is.
Obviously what works around him has to work just as well ALL OVER the world
It's a holdover from the times when Euros imagined they controlled and were
superior to the rest of the world

* *Their egos have always outreached their grasp.

True more of the USA than Europe.

On Feb 26, 9:18*am, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 11:40 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:









On 2/25/2013 10:48 AM, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 3:14 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

You've obviously never met a wide eyed dumbass who voted for the present
administration. Electric vehicles haven't been developed
to the point that they can take the place of existing internal
combustion engine powered vehicles except for short range commuting
which I think is a wonderful use for them. An electric vehicle is
not suitable for my use because I often must travel a hundred miles
or more in a day and carry a load of tools and equipment. There is
no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could afford
that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline powered
service van. O_o

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?

You still don't grok the reality of modern transportation. My favorite
small car was my 1967 Renault 10. It had an 1108cc four cylinder liquid
cooled rear engine and was a great deal of fun to drive. It weighed
1730lbs and would be a great candidate for a DIY electrical conversion.
I could hop in the munchkin mobile and drive it a minimum of 300 miles
without refueling but there is no "electric only" car I know of that can
accomplish such a feat. To me, time is money and I can't screw around
waiting for my transportation to recharge it's batteries when someone
calls for my help. I'm actually looking for a small vehicle to zip
around in but an electric vehicle would still not be suitable for that
purpose. Understand this, I like electric vehicles for the jobs they're
capable of doing. They are not a panacea for an energy shortage by any
means and if you knew the whole story of the real cost of electric cars,
you know that they're not as Green and nonpolluting as you may have been
led to believe. O_o

TDD

I don't have any pie-in-the-sky idea that the electric car will solve
the world's problems. Whatever gave you that idea? Beats the hell out of
me how they're gonna generate all the electricity. My solution would be
to build a ****load of nuke powerplants in Alaska and send the power
South. I doubt that will happen but I don't believe that the technical
problems are too big to solve. We built a frickin' interstate highway
system out of practically nothing, didn't we? Now that must have seemed
like an impossible task at the beginning.

One Kwh takes me five miles in my car. Optimum conditions.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 01:56:10 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:19:58 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:41:55 -0500, wrote:


Heat is not really an issue here but the A/C is on most of the year
and in the summer you are starting with a 140 degree car.

Depends where you park it. Most are garaged.
When I stay in Florida, my white Lumina starts from a carport.
Nowhere near 140. And I usually find shade when I'm out and about.
Seems there's a vast number of palm trees down there.
Volt sales span the globe, but California, Michigan, Illinois and
Florida are the biggest markets. Think a third are in California.
There's Volt owner reports from hot desert areas like Phoenix.
Saw one saying he wished he hadn't bought a black one.
Duh.

I don't have that much luck finding a shady parking place and I
imagine you are here in the winter.
The sun isn't really that bad in February. In August it is brutal.,

When I took the kids with me, it was always July/August. Lately it's
been September/October. When I stay beachside the rates are good, but
I don't like traffic, and heard it's quite worse in winter.
I only stay by the water, in "resort type" areas. Got to swim and
fish.
Heat doesn't bother me much anyway. Spent my young years in
boilerooms, steel mills and heat treating.
I don't think I'll ever go to Florida in the winter, unless I move
there. Wouldn't mind that at all.
Many years back a guy I worked with went in January for a couple
weeks. Vero Beach. I was happy for him, because he was really
talking up sun, sand and beer. He never got his jacket off down
there. Think that's when I decided to never vacation there in the
winter, even farther south.
For a vacation of sun, sand and beer, jackets are a bummer.
I'm looking for temps in the 80's, but 90's work too.
The trees I find to park under are usually at a far side of the
parking lots. Often just enough shade to filter the sun from half the
car. But it works wonders.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 02:10:19 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:34:29 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:45:43 -0500, wrote:

So the poor are subsidizing the rich. That sounds right, at least the
way it works here. They also subsidize the people who can afford
$50,000 solar PV arrays.
I am surprised the big business republicans are not really pushing
this. but maybe they are.

Well, remember that the lower 47% income folks don't pay fed income
taxes.
Don't know how it works with state income taxes.
The big subsidies come from the 47% being paid low wages and being
charged high prices.
I mean, the rich get their money from somewhere. I just call it
trickle up. It's always been that way.
Like how white cars and blacks handle the sun.

The problem with that thinking is that these subsidies are actually
coming from the income tax code. The 47% are not going to be able to
exploit it unless they have the money to start with. You get it back
next year.

It's not "thinking" at all, just fact. Of course the 47% can't take
advantage. By the time prices come down enough for them to afford
Volts and solar arrays on their homes - if ever - the subsidies won't
be necessary, and won't exist.
I'm talking about the low-income part of the 47%, not these folks.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/18/pf/t...res/index.html
The average Volt buyer has about $170k annual household income.
So I think we agree.

In Florida we don't have income tax so the Florida solar subsidy comes
from everyone but you still have to front up the money and get it back
later. Joke's on them. There are tens of thousands of people, still
waiting for the money. The program is broke,

It makes you wonder how many people lost their house because they
borrowed that money with an equity loan, expecting to get it back in a
month or so.

Personally I think taxes are supposed to raise revenue, not to
incentivise public behavior so I am against all subsidies that are
coming from the tax code. The current term for that is "loop hole",
unless you are getting it.

Tax structures have been designed to influence public behavior for
ages. 401k contribution exemption to encourage people to feed Wall
Street, low cap gains taxes, etc., etc.
Subsidies to encourage this or that behavior. It nearly always works
too when they hand the money out.
I recall you went for that cash-for-clunker deal, right?
It doesn't even have to make financial sense, just help it along.
Like folks buying stuff they have no real use for, because "it's a
steal." Happens all the time.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 01:27:27 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:



I have an I-miev. The cab can be pre-heated (or pre-cooled) whilst on
charge. Use of heating/cooling whilst in motion significantly reduces
range

The batteries are cooled whilst on charge because (with the Leaf)
there were issues of rapid battery deterioration in hot climates.
(Like losing 80% of range in a year)

I've read posts about the pre-heating and pre-cooling options on the
Volt forum. The Volt computer controls are real geek stuff.
The "pre" stuff really seems to have limited value to me.
Seems akin to "overclocking" chipsets. But geeks are geeks.
I've got my own geek habits.
GM hit a sweet spot with Volt all-electric range. More than the
average U.S. commuter.
Keeping an ICE was brilliant. No "range anxiety."
We'll see how the package holds up and where the price goes.
And where gas prices go.
Except as a commuter car or grocery-getter, pure electric won't work
well here without a battery swap-out infrastructure. Too many trips
exceeding battery range.

In mainstream America, I don't see that airplanes idea taking off.

I can imagine golf carts. I've seen enough of those.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Wes Groleau" wrote in message
...
On 02-25-2013 00:16, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
You see a lot of people with nothing but a golf cart in some large
retirement communities, They can go anywhere, including to their
doctors on the carts. 'The Villages" is one of the largest, and you see
a lot of golf carts, but very few cars.

I saw a TV show about a palce in California were most residents own
planes, have garages to put them in, with streets wide enough to get
them home from the landing strip.

--
Wes Groleau

Who pays for the subsidies? What gives you the moral authority to force
other citizens to pay for Volt drivers cars? Using the force of the IRS to
take my money to pay for someone else's car?

Why would you want a plug in a parking lot? Plug goes on the car, socket
supplies the power. Martin sounds like a dreamer with little grounding in or
connection to reality. He's in for a shock.

Lets take a couple hundred bucks from Martin to help buy my next work van,
shall we?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Martin Eastburn wrote:

If the government wanted to stimulate them they should have:
1. subsidize the battery so that massive charge would be lower.
2. Do as California did - have mandated plugs to be at parking lots and
own town parking.


Who pays for the electricity they use?

Can't eat it, wear it, or shoot it. Gold is the perfect example of indirect
survival.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...


"Children died, the days grew cold,
a piece of bread would buy a bag of gold."

(song I heard in the '70s)


Gold has no value when it's all you can do to survive.

On 2/26/2013 7:28 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Who pays for the subsidies? What gives you the moral authority to force
other citizens to pay for Volt drivers cars? Using the force of the IRS to
take my money to pay for someone else's car?

Why would you want a plug in a parking lot? Plug goes on the car, socket
supplies the power. Martin sounds like a dreamer with little grounding in or
connection to reality. He's in for a shock.

Lets take a couple hundred bucks from Martin to help buy my next work van,
shall we?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

I know a Lib that sucks up all the subsidies he can get and brags about
it. Solar electric panels, geothermal heating, two Prius's and a cash
for clunkers deal are what I know about. He gets ****ed when I point
out he lives off the government teat.

But, the best part is that he is affluent and brags about that too

On Feb 26, 5:59*am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 02:10:19 -0500, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:34:29 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:45:43 -0500, wrote:

So the poor are subsidizing the rich. That sounds right, at least the
way it works here. They also subsidize the people who can afford
$50,000 solar PV arrays.
I am surprised the big business republicans are not really pushing
this. *but maybe they are.

Well, remember that the lower 47% income folks don't pay fed income
taxes.
Don't know how it works with state income taxes.
The big subsidies come from the 47% being paid low wages and being
charged high prices.
I mean, the rich get their money from somewhere. *I just call it
trickle up. *It's always been that way.
Like how white cars and blacks handle the sun.

The problem with that thinking is that these subsidies are actually
coming from the income tax code. The 47% are not going to be able to
exploit it unless they have the money to start with. You get it back
next year.

It's not "thinking" at all, just fact. *Of course the 47% can't take
advantage. *By the time prices come down enough for them to afford
Volts and solar arrays on their homes - if ever - the subsidies won't
be necessary, and won't exist.
I'm talking about the low-income part of the 47%, not these folks.http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/18/pf/t...taxes-milliona...
The average Volt buyer has about $170k annual household income.
So I think we agree.

In Florida we don't have income tax so the Florida solar subsidy comes
from everyone but you still have to front up the money and get it back
later. Joke's on them. There are tens of thousands of people, still
waiting for the money. The program is broke,

It makes you wonder how many people lost their house because they
borrowed that money with an equity loan, expecting to get it back in a
month or so.

Personally I think taxes are supposed to raise revenue, not to
incentivise public behavior so I am against all subsidies that are
coming from the tax code. The current term for that is "loop hole",
unless you are getting it.

Tax structures have been designed to influence public behavior for
ages. *401k contribution exemption to encourage people to feed Wall
Street, low cap gains taxes, etc., etc.
Subsidies to encourage this or that behavior. *It nearly always works
too when they hand the money out.
I recall you went for that cash-for-clunker deal, right?
It doesn't even have to make financial sense, just help it along.
Like folks buying stuff they have no real use for, because "it's a
steal." *Happens all the time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not all the subsidies come from income taxes. For example, here in
NJ, the state subsidizes solar electric
with a tax levied on all electric bills. They also further
burden utilities by mandating that an ever increasing
amount of their electric supply come from renewable.
That adds a huge cost to the utility that gets spread
over everyone's electric bill, rich or poor.

On 2/26/2013 3:35 AM, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 11:20 PM, harry wrote:
On Feb 25, 7:39 pm, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 7:50 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:



dsi1 wrote:

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?

Normal citizens? What are you smoking?

"There is no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could
afford that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline
powered service van."

I expect horse wagon drivers said much the same thing once upon a time
when ICE engined trucks appeared.


The guys that complain about the deficiencies of the electric car must
think that the gas-powered internal combustion engine vehicles sprang up
fully developed in the early 20th century. The reality is that it took
about 50 years to get it right. Those guys deserve to drive horse carts.
:-)

They certainly do but the Moonbats who think everyone should have a
solar cell, windmill powered vehicle that will take the place of what
exists right now deserve a padded cell. ^_^

TDD

On 2/26/2013 3:18 AM, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 11:40 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 2/25/2013 10:48 AM, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 3:14 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

You've obviously never met a wide eyed dumbass who voted for the
present
administration. Electric vehicles haven't been developed
to the point that they can take the place of existing internal
combustion engine powered vehicles except for short range commuting
which I think is a wonderful use for them. An electric vehicle is
not suitable for my use because I often must travel a hundred miles
or more in a day and carry a load of tools and equipment. There is
no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could afford
that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline powered
service van. O_o

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?


You still don't grok the reality of modern transportation. My favorite
small car was my 1967 Renault 10. It had an 1108cc four cylinder liquid
cooled rear engine and was a great deal of fun to drive. It weighed
1730lbs and would be a great candidate for a DIY electrical conversion.
I could hop in the munchkin mobile and drive it a minimum of 300 miles
without refueling but there is no "electric only" car I know of that can
accomplish such a feat. To me, time is money and I can't screw around
waiting for my transportation to recharge it's batteries when someone
calls for my help. I'm actually looking for a small vehicle to zip
around in but an electric vehicle would still not be suitable for that
purpose. Understand this, I like electric vehicles for the jobs they're
capable of doing. They are not a panacea for an energy shortage by any
means and if you knew the whole story of the real cost of electric cars,
you know that they're not as Green and nonpolluting as you may have been
led to believe. O_o

TDD


I don't have any pie-in-the-sky idea that the electric car will solve
the world's problems. Whatever gave you that idea? Beats the hell out of
me how they're gonna generate all the electricity. My solution would be
to build a ****load of nuke powerplants in Alaska and send the power
South. I doubt that will happen but I don't believe that the technical
problems are too big to solve. We built a frickin' interstate highway
system out of practically nothing, didn't we? Now that must have seemed
like an impossible task at the beginning.



Why build the nuclear power plants in Alaska and waste all that power in
long electrical transmission lines? There are safe designs for nuclear
power plants that would make them good neighbors, much better
neighbors than coal fired power plants. Perhaps one day highways will
be modified to transfer power to electric vehicles while in motion which
would keep the batteries charged for trips off the highway. It may
be SciFi now but I recall when cellphones were science fiction. I really
do believe electric vehicles will be wonderful given time to develop and
build up a demand by the population but Moonbats are trying to force
them on the citizenry before they're ready for prime time. That will not
work as can be seen by all the "Green" energy companies that vaporized
after sucking up so much taxpayer money that was showered upon them with
great fanfare by the ignorant morons in charge of the country right now.
Don't you just adore The Emperor's new clothes? O_o

TDD

On 2/26/2013 12:33 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 2/25/2013 10:40 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Your reputation preceeds you. Why do you think I live in
Florida?

Hey, a stiff breeze out of Alabamastan could send the chemical
weapon your way. ^_^

Not when there's plenty of smoke from fires in Mexico blowing across
the Gulf.


That front that is moving south sure brought a hell of a lot of large
flies! Were they your pets?


No, they're my fans and groupies, they follow me everywhere and won't
leave me alone. O_o


What did yo udo? Tell them that I had free concert tickets? Now
they won't leave me alone! I had to dig out and put up a bunch of fly
strips. Where do I send their remains? ;-)


The ants eat them. Darn scavengers. O_o

TDD

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 2/25/2013 4:49 PM, Attila Iskander wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 2/25/2013 10:48 AM, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 3:14 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

You've obviously never met a wide eyed dumbass who voted for the
present
administration. Electric vehicles haven't been developed
to the point that they can take the place of existing internal
combustion engine powered vehicles except for short range commuting
which I think is a wonderful use for them. An electric vehicle is
not suitable for my use because I often must travel a hundred miles
or more in a day and carry a load of tools and equipment. There is
no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could afford
that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline powered
service van. O_o

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?


You still don't grok the reality of modern transportation. My favorite
small car was my 1967 Renault 10. It had an 1108cc four cylinder liquid
cooled rear engine and was a great deal of fun to drive. It weighed
1730lbs and would be a great candidate for a DIY electrical conversion.
I could hop in the munchkin mobile and drive it a minimum of 300 miles
without refueling but there is no "electric only" car I know of that can
accomplish such a feat. To me, time is money and I can't screw around
waiting for my transportation to recharge it's batteries when someone
calls for my help. I'm actually looking for a small vehicle to zip
around in but an electric vehicle would still not be suitable for that
purpose. Understand this, I like electric vehicles for the jobs they're
capable of doing. They are not a panacea for an energy shortage by any
means and if you knew the whole story of the real cost of electric
cars, you know that they're not as Green and nonpolluting as you may
have been led to believe. O_o


The Renault 10 was on the same level as a VW Rabbit Diesel.
Small quick and easy on the pocket.

All the government regulations have pretty well killed building cars
like that.
Even the new Fiat 500 is a pig compared to the original.


The VW Beetle at the time was a much heaver car I think over 2,000lbs and
had nowhere near the handling of the little Renault which was actually a
four door sedan.

Try again
I was tallking of the original VW Rabbit
Which was in the same class as the Renault 10.

On 2/26/2013 8:50 AM, Attila Iskander wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 2/25/2013 4:49 PM, Attila Iskander wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 2/25/2013 10:48 AM, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 3:14 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

You've obviously never met a wide eyed dumbass who voted for the
present
administration. Electric vehicles haven't been developed
to the point that they can take the place of existing internal
combustion engine powered vehicles except for short range commuting
which I think is a wonderful use for them. An electric vehicle is
not suitable for my use because I often must travel a hundred miles
or more in a day and carry a load of tools and equipment. There is
no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could afford
that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline powered
service van. O_o

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?


You still don't grok the reality of modern transportation. My favorite
small car was my 1967 Renault 10. It had an 1108cc four cylinder liquid
cooled rear engine and was a great deal of fun to drive. It weighed
1730lbs and would be a great candidate for a DIY electrical conversion.
I could hop in the munchkin mobile and drive it a minimum of 300 miles
without refueling but there is no "electric only" car I know of that
can
accomplish such a feat. To me, time is money and I can't screw around
waiting for my transportation to recharge it's batteries when someone
calls for my help. I'm actually looking for a small vehicle to zip
around in but an electric vehicle would still not be suitable for that
purpose. Understand this, I like electric vehicles for the jobs they're
capable of doing. They are not a panacea for an energy shortage by any
means and if you knew the whole story of the real cost of electric
cars, you know that they're not as Green and nonpolluting as you may
have been led to believe. O_o


The Renault 10 was on the same level as a VW Rabbit Diesel.
Small quick and easy on the pocket.

All the government regulations have pretty well killed building cars
like that.
Even the new Fiat 500 is a pig compared to the original.


The VW Beetle at the time was a much heaver car I think over 2,000lbs
and had nowhere near the handling of the little Renault which was
actually a four door sedan.

Try again
I was tallking of the original VW Rabbit
Which was in the same class as the Renault 10.


Oh no, I know there's a difference. I know The VW Rabbit wasn't in The
U.S. in 1967 which is why I mentioned the VW Beetle but I was off on the
weight. Someone pointed out that the Beetle was only a bit heavier than
the R10. The R10 is a rear engine, rear drive while I believe the Rabbit
is a front engine, front wheel drive? When you write that they're in the
same class, would that be the same weight class or mileage class? O_o

TDD

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:24:35 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"whoyakidding's ghost" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:11:31 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


Your lucidity ebbs and flows.... I think you need a few months of rest,
relaxation, and detox.

You got some nerve talking about lucidity in the same thread you
claimed that Gunner could build an EV. **** me, a week or so ago he
couldn't identify a starter solenoid without help.

Gummer also has to sit down to pee.... that might have sumpn to do with it.

Your argument that electric cars could be so simple that even Gunner
could build one is a huge fail. You don't even need to consider the
technical side. The fact is that the majority of RCM posters pay
someone else to change their oil. It's crazy to think the same people
can build any entire car, much less an EV. Big projects take real
dedication. Usenet posting tends to be a way to avoid that kind of
commitment. I think it's fair to say that a lot of RCM posters would
be at their productive dedication limit with an IKEA project. Now if
you're talking unproductive dedication then sure, RCM posters could go
a thousand rounds TALKING about their preferred weapon to destroy
unfinished IKEA projects, why they prefer freedom meat balls over
communist meat balls, ad infinitum.

So what's the
difference between you, and someone predicting the end of the world on
a certain date?

Ummm, lessee, ummm..... the diff is that I'm not predicting the end of he
world on a certain date??
Could that be it?????

No, there's no practical difference. You're both promoting things that
aren't impossible, but are so unlikely that it makes no sense to bring
them up. This being Usenet though, if the thread goes on long enough
we'll read that vehicle nuke reactors can be protected with lead
airbags.

But the reality here is that if someone can afford a new Sonata, MX-5,
Silverado, Impala, Wrangler, or Sante Fe, then they can afford a Volt.
http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-...ds/2000007814/
Yeah I know that most people don't believe their lyin calculators, but
then most people believe in angels. They're proud that nobody can
hornswaggle them outa that notion, or into an EVil.

On 2/26/2013 4:21 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 2/26/2013 3:35 AM, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 11:20 PM, harry wrote:
On Feb 25, 7:39 pm, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 7:50 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:



dsi1 wrote:

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is
that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?

Normal citizens? What are you smoking?

"There is no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could
afford that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline
powered service van."

I expect horse wagon drivers said much the same thing once upon a time
when ICE engined trucks appeared.


The guys that complain about the deficiencies of the electric car must
think that the gas-powered internal combustion engine vehicles sprang up
fully developed in the early 20th century. The reality is that it took
about 50 years to get it right. Those guys deserve to drive horse carts.
:-)

They certainly do but the Moonbats who think everyone should have a
solar cell, windmill powered vehicle that will take the place of what
exists right now deserve a padded cell. ^_^

This sounds like a good idea. We're gonna need more horse carts and
padded cells.


TDD

How many billions of dollars will US taxpayers end up losing on the
government bailout of GM?

http://www.mbtmag.com/news/2013/02/g...ining-stake-gm

"The U.S. government has started selling its remaining General Motors
stock as it moves to end four years of partial ownership of the
Detroit automaker.

The Treasury Department said in its January report to Congress that it
sold $156.4 million worth of GM common stock last month.

The report, dated Feb. 11, says the government has recovered about $29
billion of its $49.5 billion bailout of GM. That means it's just over
$20 billion in the hole on the bailout.

Details on the average share price will be revealed later, Treasury
says in the report.

GM's stock ranged from $27.61 to $30.68 in January. At the midpoint of
that range, $29.15, the government would have sold about 5.4 million
shares.

The government owned 300.1 million GM shares, or 19 percent of the
company, at the start of the year. Treasury has said it will sell the
rest by early in 2014, depending on market conditions. Treasury would
not reveal specific details of the sales plan or provide further
information on timing.

Breaking even would require selling the remaining 300 million shares
for an average of about $70 each — more than double the current
trading price."

On 2/26/2013 4:45 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Why build the nuclear power plants in Alaska and waste all that power in
long electrical transmission lines? There are safe designs for nuclear
power plants that would make them good neighbors, much better
neighbors than coal fired power plants. Perhaps one day highways will
be modified to transfer power to electric vehicles while in motion which
would keep the batteries charged for trips off the highway. It may
be SciFi now but I recall when cellphones were science fiction. I really
do believe electric vehicles will be wonderful given time to develop and
build up a demand by the population but Moonbats are trying to force
them on the citizenry before they're ready for prime time. That will not
work as can be seen by all the "Green" energy companies that vaporized
after sucking up so much taxpayer money that was showered upon them with
great fanfare by the ignorant morons in charge of the country right now.
Don't you just adore The Emperor's new clothes? O_o

TDD

Solar energy is pretty popular over here. Unfortunately, Hawaiian
Electric has to charge more for electricity to make up for the lost
revenues caused by solar water heaters and photo voltaic systems. That's
the breaks. :-)

harry wrote:

On Feb 25, 7:39 pm, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 7:50 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:



dsi1 wrote:

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?

Normal citizens? What are you smoking?

"There is no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could
afford that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline
powered service van."

I expect horse wagon drivers said much the same thing once upon a time
when ICE engined trucks appeared.


No, but they complained that the noisy engines scared their horses.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 2/26/2013 3:35 AM, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 11:20 PM, harry wrote:
On Feb 25, 7:39 pm, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 7:50 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:



dsi1 wrote:

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?

Normal citizens? What are you smoking?

"There is no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could
afford that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline
powered service van."

I expect horse wagon drivers said much the same thing once upon a time
when ICE engined trucks appeared.


The guys that complain about the deficiencies of the electric car must
think that the gas-powered internal combustion engine vehicles sprang up
fully developed in the early 20th century. The reality is that it took
about 50 years to get it right. Those guys deserve to drive horse carts.
:-)

They certainly do but the Moonbats who think everyone should have a
solar cell, windmill powered vehicle that will take the place of what
exists right now deserve a padded cell. ^_^



Only if they can pay for the padding. Otherwise, let them beat their
heads against the cast concrete walls. Just hose out the cell when
they're finished.

dsi1 wrote:

On 2/25/2013 11:40 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 2/25/2013 10:48 AM, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 3:14 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

You've obviously never met a wide eyed dumbass who voted for the present
administration. Electric vehicles haven't been developed
to the point that they can take the place of existing internal
combustion engine powered vehicles except for short range commuting
which I think is a wonderful use for them. An electric vehicle is
not suitable for my use because I often must travel a hundred miles
or more in a day and carry a load of tools and equipment. There is
no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could afford
that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline powered
service van. O_o

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?


You still don't grok the reality of modern transportation. My favorite
small car was my 1967 Renault 10. It had an 1108cc four cylinder liquid
cooled rear engine and was a great deal of fun to drive. It weighed
1730lbs and would be a great candidate for a DIY electrical conversion.
I could hop in the munchkin mobile and drive it a minimum of 300 miles
without refueling but there is no "electric only" car I know of that can
accomplish such a feat. To me, time is money and I can't screw around
waiting for my transportation to recharge it's batteries when someone
calls for my help. I'm actually looking for a small vehicle to zip
around in but an electric vehicle would still not be suitable for that
purpose. Understand this, I like electric vehicles for the jobs they're
capable of doing. They are not a panacea for an energy shortage by any
means and if you knew the whole story of the real cost of electric cars,
you know that they're not as Green and nonpolluting as you may have been
led to believe. O_o

TDD


I don't have any pie-in-the-sky idea that the electric car will solve
the world's problems. Whatever gave you that idea? Beats the hell out of
me how they're gonna generate all the electricity. My solution would be
to build a ****load of nuke powerplants in Alaska and send the power
South.


FOol. The IR losses would waste most of that power, and Nukes in
Alaska have a very poor track record. The one at Ft. Greeley was a
disaster. They filled the structures with cement to seal in the
radiation, and to keep thieves from trying to steal contaminated metal.

harry wrote:

On Feb 26, 12:15 am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Attila Iskander wrote:

But that comment again demonstrates how provincial harry's mindset is.
Obviously what works around him has to work just as well ALL OVER the world
It's a holdover from the times when Euros imagined they controlled and were
superior to the rest of the world

Their egos have always outreached their grasp.

True more of the USA than Europe.


The US has never started a world war, but you have two under your
belts. Does: "The sun will never set on the British Empire!" ring any
bells in your tiny belfry? How about your slave trade, where you limeys
brought slaves to your southern plantations, then left us to deal with
the problems when we kicked your syphilis infected carcasses out in that
little spat where a handful of farm boys kicked the **** out of "The
best army in the world"?

harry wrote:

On Feb 25, 7:23 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
harry wrote:

On Feb 25, 12:42 pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 2/25/2013 1:51 AM, harry wrote:

On Feb 24, 9:42 pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 2/24/2013 1:42 PM, dsi1 wrote:

On 2/24/2013 2:46 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

The P.L.L.C.F. are always trying to push junk science and technology.
Electric vehicles have their place but the Moonbats are determined to
push immature technology upon the citizenry especially when there is
no widely established infrastructure to support it. When you see The
President and congressmen traveling around in battery powered limousines
and The Capital and White House powered completely by solar
cells and windmills, the technology will be ready for the masses. Until
that happens I'll be very skeptical that the present national energy and
transportation infrastructure should be scrapped for something from
La La Land. ^_^

TDD

It's a good thing for us that folks who said that the infrastructure was
not in place and that the moonbats were trying to replace horses and
buggys with new-fangled automobiles were unable to convince the
citizenry of their anti-progressive ways. What model carriage do you
drive, sir? :-)

Don't be silly, the primitive automobiles were few in number and the
highway system didn't exist at the time not to mention the relatively
tiny population in those days. Electric vehicles will be wonderful if
the infrastructure is allowed to develop and evolve slowly and with the
demands of the market the same way the internal combustion engine based
transportation infrastructure did. Moonbats believe the present
transportation infrastructure can be scrapped and changed overnight. If
you remember history, our politicians didn't use the newfangled gasoline
powered automobiles and airplanes until the technology matured as much
as the rail and steamship travel had become and widely used safely by a
large number of people. Last week I had to spend a few days working at
the Northern end of the state which was a two hour drive. There is no
windmill and solar cell powered vehicle in existence that would have
made it possible for me and JH to transport ourselves and a half ton of
tools and equipment to the job site and back. So my assertion of the
moonbattery of the Progressive Liberal Leftist Commiecrat Freaks still
stands. ^_^

TDD

You charge your car up at home at night Duf.
So there are charging stations everywhere.
The problem is; range and the time it takes to charge from a domestic
outlet.

Electric vehicles are wonderful for the capabilities they have. The
electric car can never take the place of a gasoline powered vehicle
until it has the range and convenience of what we have now. Perhaps
a small nuclear reactor would give an electrically driven vehicle the
ability to travel long distances without having to stop every 50 miles
to recharge the battery. My concept of vehicle range is one that travels
far enough and long enough so that I must stop to empty my bladder
before the vehicle runs out of power. ^_^

TDD

My electric car take me everywhere I need to go. 80 miles range max.

If I do go outside the range, I have to stay long enough to recharge
it.
Depending on the charge point that could be eight hours or
20 minutes. This is very infrequent for me.

I drive a full size pickup, and the bed is rarely empty. Can you
haul a ton of marble chips in your little windup? How about a dozen full
size sheets of plywood? 15 computer monitors, or 35 computers?

Is that the only vehicle you possess?
I bet you go shopping with your pickup filled with trash in the back.


No, but I bet you go shopping and come back with nothing but trash.
You need to change yopur diet.

On 2/26/2013 9:02 AM, jon_banquer wrote:
How many billions of dollars will US taxpayers end up losing on the
government bailout of GM?

http://www.mbtmag.com/news/2013/02/g...ining-stake-gm

"The U.S. government has started selling its remaining General Motors
stock as it moves to end four years of partial ownership of the
Detroit automaker.

This is funny. Little jonny banqueer, aka jonny bonkers, an irrational
nutless left-winger, is criticizing the bailout because the taxpayer is
going to lose money on the stock transactions. Little jonny banqueer's
preferred method would be for the government simply to nationalize the
car companies, leading to taxpayer losses orders of magnitude higher.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 2/26/2013 12:33 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 2/25/2013 10:40 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Your reputation preceeds you. Why do you think I live in
Florida?

Hey, a stiff breeze out of Alabamastan could send the chemical
weapon your way. ^_^

Not when there's plenty of smoke from fires in Mexico blowing across
the Gulf.


That front that is moving south sure brought a hell of a lot of large
flies! Were they your pets?


No, they're my fans and groupies, they follow me everywhere and won't
leave me alone. O_o


What did yo udo? Tell them that I had free concert tickets? Now
they won't leave me alone! I had to dig out and put up a bunch of fly
strips. Where do I send their remains? ;-)


The ants eat them. Darn scavengers. O_o


Tiny little liberals?

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Can't eat it, wear it, or shoot it. Gold is the perfect example of indirect
survival.


I wonder what it would do to a gun barrel if you cast bullets out of
gold?

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Who pays for the subsidies? What gives you the moral authority to force
other citizens to pay for Volt drivers cars? Using the force of the IRS to
take my money to pay for someone else's car?

Why would you want a plug in a parking lot? Plug goes on the car, socket
supplies the power. Martin sounds like a dreamer with little grounding in or
connection to reality. He's in for a shock.

Lets take a couple hundred bucks from Martin to help buy my next work van,
shall we?


One school system just annnounced a fee for students who want to play
sports. IADT they paid their own way.

Frank wrote:

I know a Lib that sucks up all the subsidies he can get and brags about
it. Solar electric panels, geothermal heating, two Prius's and a cash
for clunkers deal are what I know about. He gets ****ed when I point
out he lives off the government teat.

But, the best part is that he is affluent and brags about that too


Affleunt? I think he's closer to effleunt.

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...
Oh no, I know there's a difference. I know The VW Rabbit wasn't in
The U.S. in 1967 which is why I mentioned the VW Beetle but I was
off on the
weight. Someone pointed out that the Beetle was only a bit heavier
than
the R10. The R10 is a rear engine, rear drive while I believe the
Rabbit
is a front engine, front wheel drive? When you write that they're in
the
same class, would that be the same weight class or mileage class?
O_o

TDD

This is where the Rabbit originated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_K70

On Feb 26, 2:21*pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 2/26/2013 3:35 AM, dsi1 wrote:









On 2/25/2013 11:20 PM, harry wrote:
On Feb 25, 7:39 pm, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/25/2013 7:50 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dsi1 wrote:

It sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. The reality is that
most passenger cars would not suit your needs. What's your point? Are
all normal citizens supposed to drive gasoline powered service vans?

* * *Normal citizens? *What are you smoking?

"There is no electric vehicle in existence that a normal citizen could
afford that has anything near the capabilities of my old gasoline
powered service van."

I expect horse wagon drivers said much the same thing once upon a time
when ICE engined trucks appeared.

The guys that complain about the deficiencies of the electric car must
think that the gas-powered internal combustion engine vehicles sprang up
fully developed in the early 20th century. The reality is that it took
about 50 years to get it right. Those guys deserve to drive horse carts..
:-)

They certainly do but the Moonbats who think everyone should have a
solar cell, windmill powered vehicle that will take the place of what
exists right now deserve a padded cell. ^_^

TDD

That's likely to be the only alternatives in a few years.

On Feb 26, 3:14*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 05:21:42 -0600, Vic Smith









wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 01:27:27 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

I have an I-miev. The cab can be pre-heated (or pre-cooled) whilst on
charge. *Use of heating/cooling whilst in motion significantly reduces
range

The batteries are cooled whilst on charge because (with the Leaf)
there were issues of rapid battery deterioration in hot climates.
(Like losing 80% of range in a year)

I've read posts about the pre-heating and pre-cooling options on the
Volt forum. *The Volt computer controls are real geek stuff.
The "pre" stuff really seems to have limited value to me.
Seems akin to "overclocking" chipsets. *But geeks are geeks.
I've got my own geek habits.
GM hit a sweet spot with Volt all-electric range. *More than the
average U.S. commuter.
Keeping an ICE was brilliant. *No "range anxiety."
We'll see how the package holds up and where the price goes.
And where gas prices go.
Except as a commuter car or grocery-getter, pure electric won't work
well here without a battery swap-out infrastructure. *Too many trips
exceeding battery range.

There is some promise with a new super capacitor that will charge in
minutes

Seconds. The problem is finding enough thousand amp power sources.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_capacitor
They are using them is China right now. City buses are charged up at
every bus stop.