On 2/28/2013 12:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2013 2:49 PM, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/28/2013 10:31 AM, jon_banquer wrote:

Your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is the most over-hyped
technology I know of.


My guess is that your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is
going to change our relationship to manufactured objects.
All of a sudden we'll be able to create things ourselves. We
won't have to hire guys with hammers, saws, and chisels. So
there! :-)

You say that because you don't work metal on a regular basis.

You say that because you don't work with plastic on a regular basis.
What's your point?


3D printing can make something which looks very much like the part you
want. For something like that plastic breakaway arm for the paper roll
of a calculator, it's probably a good solution.

On 2/28/2013 12:26 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

R.C.M. -is- the guys with the metalworking machinery and the know-how
to use them.

I have great respect for people that work with metal, and very little
for shortsighted folks. One of the most wonderful piece of manufacturing
that I own is made of a milled billet of aluminum alloy. The iPad
housing is a most amazing and unusual piece of metal working!

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:07:16 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:42:48 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:22:19 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:13:39 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:56:32 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:58:08 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:18:06 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:06:30 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:27:24 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 01:17:20 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Feb 25, 7:24*pm, Transition Zone wrote:
On Feb 25, 12:58*pm, harry wrote:







On Feb 25, 4:56*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Electric vehicles are wonderful for the capabilities they have. The
electric car can never take the place of a gasoline powered vehicle
until it has the range and convenience of what we have now. Perhaps
a small nuclear reactor would give an electrically driven vehicle the
ability to travel long distances without having to stop every 50 miles
to recharge the battery. My concept of vehicle range is one that travels
far enough and long enough so that I must stop to empty my bladder
before the vehicle runs out of power. ^_^

* *There were five mounting locations for 30 gallon tanks on my old
stepvan service truck. *Fully loaded, it got over 20 MPG or 600+ miles
per tank. Dual tanks easily let you drive over a thousand miles. *All
five would take you over 3000 miles, if you could afford to fill all of
them. ;-)

* In Europe we let the train take the strain. *Or the bus.

*Or fly.

North of Washington, we do that in the states, too.

Ah. The area first colonised, hence the most civilised:-)

No, idiot, the area with the densest people, like Europe.

Oh..that would be Northern Michigan, rather than the East Coast.

No, even the back-woods hicks of the UP are no match for their NE
cousins. Evidence, Mayor Doomberg.

The UP was explored and settled long before most of the Eastern states

I kinda think NY and MA were settled a bit before, though they're
still pretty unsettling places to live.

Actually..not true.

Go on... (Is that you, harry?)

But they are indeed pretty unsettling places to live.

The only places worse are IL and CA.

Nah...California is actually pretty nice in most places. Except the
Leftwingers run it.

That will ruin the best of places. Italy, Greece, California, all the
same.

The Central Valley is a very nice Red Zone.

Still owned by the leftists.

Hell...most of the state votes Red (conservative) except for 3-4 of
the urban areas

That's true of the entire country. The problem is that those few
pinko areas have too many takers forcing the makers elsewhere to
support them.

Now California..has been explored and settled long before most of the
eastern states. Hell..the Chinese used to come over and trade with the
indians back nearly in the BC times.

Well you sound like harry, now, paleface....

Paleface? Im Original People. Ojibwa.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:08:24 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .

And then we have the Runestones...some of which may or may not be
hoaxes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_Runestone 1362 AD


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westford_Knight
"The current interpretation by those who advocate that the feature on
the rock is a human figure is that it commemorates a fallen member of
the party of Henry Sinclair, a Scottish Earl whom some believe to have
made a voyage to the New World in 1398, "

This is the earliest solid evidence of Europeans in North America:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L'Anse_aux_Meadows
"Workshops were identified as an iron smithy containing a forge and
iron slag, "

"Food remains included butternuts, which are significant because they
do not grow naturally north of New Brunswick, "
Or maybe they once grew further north in the warmer climate?

"This area is no longer rich in game due in large part to the harsh
climate that plagues the region for a lot of the year."

Ayup..Columbus was a late comer.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:05:01 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 8:47 AM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 2/28/2013 10:18 AM, harry wrote:
O
If you weren't such wretched ingrates, you'd understand that it was an
act of American benevolence toward the UK.

Be out of Hawaii soon I expect.

Not a chance. Hawaiians are Americans and like it.

Hawaii was invaded and has been colonised by USAians.
It was illegally incorporated into the USA.

No, there was nothing illegal about it.

I've never heard it described as "nothing illegal." It was corporate
takeover by a group of American businessmen backed by American muscle in
1893. The Queen at the time gave up without a fight since the only
things her people had were sticks and stones to defend themselves.

"I, Lili'uokalani, by the Grace of God and under the constitution of the
Hawaiian Kingdom, Queen, do hereby solemnly protest against any and all
acts done against myself and the constitutional government of the
Hawaiian Kingdom by certain persons claiming to have established a
Provisional Government of and for this Kingdom. That I yield to the
superior force of the United States of America, whose Minister
Plenipotentiary, His Excellency John L Stevens, has caused United States
troops to be landed at Honolulu and declared that he would support the
said Provisional Government. Now, to avoid any collision of armed forces
and perhaps loss of life, I do, under this protest, and impelled by said
forces, yield my authority until such time as the Government of the
United States shall, upon the facts being presented to it, undo the
action of its representative and reinstate me in the authority which I
claim as the constitutional sovereign of the Hawaiian Islands."
— Queen Lili?uokalani, Jan 17, 1893

The Queen was later to be imprisoned for her efforts to regain her
throne. My wife's great, great, grandmother who lived in Montana,
followed the newspaper stories of the Queen's plight and would weep for
her. It was a sad, tragic, affair.

Manifest Destiny.


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:07:55 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 10:56 AM, jon_banquer wrote:
On Feb 28, 12:49 pm, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/28/2013 10:31 AM, jon_banquer wrote:

Your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is the most over-hyped
technology I know of.

My guess is that your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is going to
change our relationship to manufactured objects. All of a sudden we'll
be able to create things ourselves. We won't have to hire guys with
hammers, saws, and chisels. So there! :-)

I'm not wrong. It will be many years before 3D printing can print
autobody panels.

Like I said, 3D printing is the most over-hyped technology I'm aware
of. Suggest you start doing some investigating and read what those who
have been in 3D printing business for years have to say about all the
over-hyped bull****. 3D printing certainly has its place. Printing
autobody panels isn't one of them and it won't be anytime soon.


I'm willing to wait to see who's right. This discussion is over. BTW, I
never said that mass produced objects will be manufactured with 3D
printing. That's an idiotic notion.

Printing the molds might happen..but not the sheetmetal. Least for a
very long time. The materials science simply isnt there yet.


Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On 2/28/2013 12:53 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:05:01 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 8:47 AM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 2/28/2013 10:18 AM, harry wrote:
O
If you weren't such wretched ingrates, you'd understand that it was an
act of American benevolence toward the UK.

Be out of Hawaii soon I expect.

Not a chance. Hawaiians are Americans and like it.

Hawaii was invaded and has been colonised by USAians.
It was illegally incorporated into the USA.

No, there was nothing illegal about it.

I've never heard it described as "nothing illegal." It was corporate
takeover by a group of American businessmen backed by American muscle in
1893. The Queen at the time gave up without a fight since the only
things her people had were sticks and stones to defend themselves.

"I, Lili'uokalani, by the Grace of God and under the constitution of the
Hawaiian Kingdom, Queen, do hereby solemnly protest against any and all
acts done against myself and the constitutional government of the
Hawaiian Kingdom by certain persons claiming to have established a
Provisional Government of and for this Kingdom. That I yield to the
superior force of the United States of America, whose Minister
Plenipotentiary, His Excellency John L Stevens, has caused United States
troops to be landed at Honolulu and declared that he would support the
said Provisional Government. Now, to avoid any collision of armed forces
and perhaps loss of life, I do, under this protest, and impelled by said
forces, yield my authority until such time as the Government of the
United States shall, upon the facts being presented to it, undo the
action of its representative and reinstate me in the authority which I
claim as the constitutional sovereign of the Hawaiian Islands."
— Queen Lili?uokalani, Jan 17, 1893

The Queen was later to be imprisoned for her efforts to regain her
throne. My wife's great, great, grandmother who lived in Montana,
followed the newspaper stories of the Queen's plight and would weep for
her. It was a sad, tragic, affair.

Manifest Destiny.


Well... I can't complain.


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:30:38 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 12:08 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:07:55 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 10:56 AM, jon_banquer wrote:
On Feb 28, 12:49 pm, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/28/2013 10:31 AM, jon_banquer wrote:

Your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is the most over-hyped
technology I know of.

My guess is that your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is going to
change our relationship to manufactured objects. All of a sudden we'll
be able to create things ourselves. We won't have to hire guys with
hammers, saws, and chisels. So there! :-)

I'm not wrong. It will be many years before 3D printing can print
autobody panels.

Like I said, 3D printing is the most over-hyped technology I'm aware
of. Suggest you start doing some investigating and read what those who
have been in 3D printing business for years have to say about all the
over-hyped bull****. 3D printing certainly has its place. Printing
autobody panels isn't one of them and it won't be anytime soon.


I'm willing to wait to see who's right. This discussion is over. BTW, I
never said that mass produced objects will be manufactured with 3D
printing. That's an idiotic notion.

Where the technology stands now, is he You can make plastic parts.
If they have extremes of thickness (or thinness, actually), they
aren't very good. That includes body panels. It's just not suited for
those radical differences in dimension, from one axis to another.

You can make metal parts. I have one that I photographed for a
magazine cover over ten years ago. They involve using powdered metal
in a polymer matrix, and they then have to be sintered. The same
dimensional issues apply, and the nature of the shapes make it
impossible to get good density without (a) losing accuracy, and (b)
using special alloys that give you good densification but high cost or
low strength, or both.

You can make casting models, mostly out of plastic. These serve as
patterns and cores for investment casting, which you're not going to
be able to do on your kitchen table. g

Where is it going? I don't do a lot of predicting, but I think it's
hit a plateau in terms of dimensional and strength capability. From
here, we need some kind of breakthrough. Prices keep falling, but
capabilities haven't moved much.

If you read the general-press articles, you'd think you can
manufacture anything in your spare bedroom. Even the trade press that
covers the subject writes about it in what I would call "intoxicated"
terms.

It just ain't there yet, and there's no clear path showing how to get
there.


I agree, we ain't there and it's gonna take some time to get up to
speed. What I don't understand is people that can only see things within
their very narrow frame of reference. They can only see the things the
new technology can't do.

Nobody could have imagined the possibilities of the aircraft and the
automobile at the beginning of the 20th century. Those early developers
had their detractors too from people with small imaginations. It's the
story of new tech.

Ok, but remember you're ralking to some people here on RCM who have a
good knowledge of manufacturing engineering, and who probably have a
broader view of "additive manufacturing" (the broader category of
which "3D printing" is a part, at the low end). We've followed it, and
we understand materials science, and some have good knowledge of the
related computer technologies, including CAD and CAM.

They're the ones who tend to be skeptical about the gushy enthusiasm.
There are physical and cost limitations to the processes involved. We
may know about flying-beam 3D laser sintering. And we know what it
costs.

We're also wary of anything that sounds like the inevitability of
having a helicopter in every garage. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:47:38 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 12:26 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

R.C.M. -is- the guys with the metalworking machinery and the know-how
to use them.

I have great respect for people that work with metal, and very little
for shortsighted folks. One of the most wonderful piece of manufacturing
that I own is made of a milled billet of aluminum alloy.


AAHHHHaa....thud!

Don't ask, dsil. g

--
Ed Huntress


The iPad
housing is a most amazing and unusual piece of metal working!

On 2/28/2013 12:05 PM, dsi1 wrote:

--

================================================== ===================
SPAMMED INTO NON-RELEVANT GROUPS / COUNTRIES
================================================== ===================

On 2/28/2013 12:58 PM, M.I.Wakefield wrote:

--

================================================== ===================
SPAMMED INTO NON-RELEVANT GROUPS / COUNTRIES
================================================== ===================

On 2/28/2013 1:21 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:47:38 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 12:26 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

R.C.M. -is- the guys with the metalworking machinery and the know-how
to use them.

I have great respect for people that work with metal, and very little
for shortsighted folks. One of the most wonderful piece of manufacturing
that I own is made of a milled billet of aluminum alloy.


AAHHHHaa....thud!

Don't ask, dsil. g


If what you're hinting at is that it's die cast metal. Perhaps it is.
That's the way you'd expect it to be made - that or stamped sheet metal.
The trouble is that it doesn't appear to be made that way. I'd be
interested in any info you have on this.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:10:18 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:15:13 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:57:49 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:44:49 -0800, Spam?uster

Wow, the little moron knows how to look at a header. Who would have
thunk?




Shocking ... LOL

Your ignorance certainly is Dumbie.


I knew you'd reply here. So predictable !!

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:38:18 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 1:21 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:47:38 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 12:26 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

R.C.M. -is- the guys with the metalworking machinery and the know-how
to use them.

I have great respect for people that work with metal, and very little
for shortsighted folks. One of the most wonderful piece of manufacturing
that I own is made of a milled billet of aluminum alloy.


AAHHHHaa....thud!

Don't ask, dsil. g


If what you're hinting at is that it's die cast metal. Perhaps it is.

No, that wasn't what I meant. It's sort of an inside joke here, and,
unless you really want to know, I'll avoid bothering you with it.

If it looks like it's machined from solid aluminum, and if it doesn't
look like one or more sides of it are not machined, but cast, then it
probably is machined from solid aluminum.

It's the "billet" word that's the joke. Don't worry about it.

That's the way you'd expect it to be made - that or stamped sheet metal.
The trouble is that it doesn't appear to be made that way. I'd be
interested in any info you have on this.

Well, do you have a photo of it?

--
Ed Huntress

On Feb 28, 2:04*pm, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote in message

news:480fa1ad-5648-4cb0-9766-
-Your guess would be wrong.
-3D printing is the most over-hyped
-technology I know of.

Last week I visited the local hacker space lab and watched them form a
part from polylactic acid (a polyester) on a 3D printer. Then they
showed me the drawer of delaminated failures. It looked like a good
way to make the patterns to sand cast the real part in metal. They had
another machine somewhere that carved foam for lost-foam investment
castings.

If I didn't already have practically all the same equipment I might
have joined.

When I need a curved three dimensional shape like a tool handle or
model boat hull my hands are better at sculpting it from wood / wax /
Bondo than my eyes are at constructing it geometrically with CAD.
jsw

Right. CAD still doesn't give one the needed tools to properly create
highly organic shapes with ease but it's getting better. Sub-D
(polygon mesh) to NURBS technology has a bright future.

Lets take a car body and use it as an example. A car body is comprised
of many complex organic shapes. There is a reason almost all new car
bodies have a clay model made first. Once the clay model is right,
it's digitized to CAD. This kind of reality isn't dealt with by those
who bleat on and on about additive manufacturing eliminating the need
for subtractive manufacturing.

On Feb 28, 2:08*pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2013 2:49 PM, dsi1 wrote:

On 2/28/2013 10:31 AM, jon_banquer wrote:

Your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is the most over-hyped
technology I know of.

My guess is that your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is
going to change our relationship to manufactured objects.
All of a sudden we'll be able to create things ourselves. We
won't have to hire guys with hammers, saws, and chisels. So
there! :-)

You say that because you don't work metal on a regular basis.

3D printing can make something which looks very much like
the part you want. For something like that plastic breakaway
arm for the paper roll of a calculator, it's probably a good
solution.

--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Very well put.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:36:26 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

I just don't unnerstand what part of "too heavy" these assholes can't
comprehend....
A compact car that weights 3500#???? R U fukn kidding me???

Add a Volt battery and electric drive motor to your Fit and then post
a photo of it perched on 4 bathroom scales. Make sure you use the ones
designed for hipp... I mean food aficionados.

Oh wait, you want the Fit redesigned first so that it has everything
it needs EXCEPT a 500lb battery, and yet only weighs 3/4 of a Beetle.
OK then, keep googling www.pieinthesky.com. Or if you're in a hurry,
graft the canopy of a baby carriage onto a Segway, and then add a
lumber rack. I advise using a modified RCM rollup door installion
technique, which you can see here. http://tinyurl.com/cfs38nc That's
the one that solves any pesky angle mismatch issues.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:35:35 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:57:03 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:59:42 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:


So this is a Hollywood special effects piece?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw6NFmcnW-8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrZJsvDy19I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N98mXwTsx5A

The fact that none of them are being built today should give you your
answer. They just can't cut it.

Steam is just not an answer, Gunner, no matter how much you may like
it.


Say...isnt the internal combustion engine somewhere around 28%
effecient?

Not the latest ones. We're headed for 40% as a typical number within a
few years. Some cars surpass it now.

--
Ed Huntress

http://www.instructables.com/answers...rn-for-modern/

Read the first comment by SteamRoss.53. He has it right, except for
the uniflow steam engines running on superheated steam. The whole
point of uniflows is to avoid the need for superheated steam. You can
do it, but it has nothing to do with the uniflow's operation or
performance.

Other than that minor nitpick, the guy knows what he's talking about.


http://www.cyclonepower.com/

shrug A hyped-up flash-boiler feeding a radial engine. They've been
around for over 100 years.


Intersting.

Note that the feature pushed for the "Cyclone" is fuel flexibility.
That's what drove the Stirling developments in the 1970s, including
Ford's fleet of Stirling-powered postal trucks.

What happened is that we since learned how to burn just about any
liquid or gaseous fuel in IC engines, and they have many advantages.

Bunker fuel will burn in a pickup truck?


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:32:23 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:18:24 -0800 (PST), harry

Hey Harry...the Picts just called ..they want you and the rest of
your
Norman Scum to go home.

Gunner

Same for the Cymri. A pox on your Horsa and Hengist!


Ayaaaah!!


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:30:38 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 12:08 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:07:55 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 10:56 AM, jon_banquer wrote:
On Feb 28, 12:49 pm, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/28/2013 10:31 AM, jon_banquer wrote:

Your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is the most over-hyped
technology I know of.

My guess is that your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is going to
change our relationship to manufactured objects. All of a sudden we'll
be able to create things ourselves. We won't have to hire guys with
hammers, saws, and chisels. So there! :-)

I'm not wrong. It will be many years before 3D printing can print
autobody panels.

Like I said, 3D printing is the most over-hyped technology I'm aware
of. Suggest you start doing some investigating and read what those who
have been in 3D printing business for years have to say about all the
over-hyped bull****. 3D printing certainly has its place. Printing
autobody panels isn't one of them and it won't be anytime soon.


I'm willing to wait to see who's right. This discussion is over. BTW, I
never said that mass produced objects will be manufactured with 3D
printing. That's an idiotic notion.

Where the technology stands now, is he You can make plastic parts.
If they have extremes of thickness (or thinness, actually), they
aren't very good. That includes body panels. It's just not suited for
those radical differences in dimension, from one axis to another.

You can make metal parts. I have one that I photographed for a
magazine cover over ten years ago. They involve using powdered metal
in a polymer matrix, and they then have to be sintered. The same
dimensional issues apply, and the nature of the shapes make it
impossible to get good density without (a) losing accuracy, and (b)
using special alloys that give you good densification but high cost or
low strength, or both.

You can make casting models, mostly out of plastic. These serve as
patterns and cores for investment casting, which you're not going to
be able to do on your kitchen table. g

Where is it going? I don't do a lot of predicting, but I think it's
hit a plateau in terms of dimensional and strength capability. From
here, we need some kind of breakthrough. Prices keep falling, but
capabilities haven't moved much.

If you read the general-press articles, you'd think you can
manufacture anything in your spare bedroom. Even the trade press that
covers the subject writes about it in what I would call "intoxicated"
terms.

It just ain't there yet, and there's no clear path showing how to get
there.


I agree, we ain't there and it's gonna take some time to get up to
speed. What I don't understand is people that can only see things within
their very narrow frame of reference. They can only see the things the
new technology can't do.

Nobody could have imagined the possibilities of the aircraft and the
automobile at the beginning of the 20th century. Those early developers
had their detractors too from people with small imaginations. It's the
story of new tech.

Like Transparent Aluminum.

Google it..it now exists


Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On 2/28/2013 1:51 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

No, that wasn't what I meant. It's sort of an inside joke here, and,
unless you really want to know, I'll avoid bothering you with it.

If it looks like it's machined from solid aluminum, and if it doesn't
look like one or more sides of it are not machined, but cast, then it
probably is machined from solid aluminum.

It's the "billet" word that's the joke. Don't worry about it.

I guess "billet" is a funny word. OK we'll leave it a private joke.


That's the way you'd expect it to be made - that or stamped sheet metal.
The trouble is that it doesn't appear to be made that way. I'd be
interested in any info you have on this.

Well, do you have a photo of it?

You could Google it. I don't have any photos of it but I do have the
product in hand. It's the first series iPad. I thought you might have an
some expert info on this.

On 2/28/2013 3:40 PM, Gunner wrote:

Like Transparent Aluminum.

Google it..it now exists

Sound like great stuff. Hopefully someone could make a car and engine
out of this material.



Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:37:46 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:35:35 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:57:03 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:59:42 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:


So this is a Hollywood special effects piece?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw6NFmcnW-8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrZJsvDy19I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N98mXwTsx5A

The fact that none of them are being built today should give you your
answer. They just can't cut it.

Steam is just not an answer, Gunner, no matter how much you may like
it.


Say...isnt the internal combustion engine somewhere around 28%
effecient?

Not the latest ones. We're headed for 40% as a typical number within a
few years. Some cars surpass it now.

--
Ed Huntress

http://www.instructables.com/answers...rn-for-modern/

Read the first comment by SteamRoss.53. He has it right, except for
the uniflow steam engines running on superheated steam. The whole
point of uniflows is to avoid the need for superheated steam. You can
do it, but it has nothing to do with the uniflow's operation or
performance.

Other than that minor nitpick, the guy knows what he's talking about.


http://www.cyclonepower.com/

shrug A hyped-up flash-boiler feeding a radial engine. They've been
around for over 100 years.


Intersting.

Note that the feature pushed for the "Cyclone" is fuel flexibility.
That's what drove the Stirling developments in the 1970s, including
Ford's fleet of Stirling-powered postal trucks.

What happened is that we since learned how to burn just about any
liquid or gaseous fuel in IC engines, and they have many advantages.

Bunker fuel will burn in a pickup truck?

If we're reduced to bunker oil, it will mean that your pickup truck is
too hot with radiation to drive, and you'll either be deep underground
or dead.

Do you have bunker oil stations in Taft?

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:40:53 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 1:51 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

No, that wasn't what I meant. It's sort of an inside joke here, and,
unless you really want to know, I'll avoid bothering you with it.

If it looks like it's machined from solid aluminum, and if it doesn't
look like one or more sides of it are not machined, but cast, then it
probably is machined from solid aluminum.

It's the "billet" word that's the joke. Don't worry about it.

I guess "billet" is a funny word. OK we'll leave it a private joke.

It has a specific meaning, and misuse of it has caused a couple of
flame wars here.

We're funny about manufacturing jargon. But we only flame other
manufacturing people about our jargon. So don't worry. d8-)



That's the way you'd expect it to be made - that or stamped sheet metal.
The trouble is that it doesn't appear to be made that way. I'd be
interested in any info you have on this.

Well, do you have a photo of it?

You could Google it. I don't have any photos of it but I do have the
product in hand. It's the first series iPad. I thought you might have an
some expert info on this.

I couldn't find anything much, and I haven't taken a close look at
iPad's. I'll have to look next time I see one. Chances are I won't be
able to tell how it was made from just looking, but I'll look.

--
Ed Huntress

On Feb 28, 11:25*am, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:20:00 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer









wrote:
On Feb 28, 10:17*am, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:58:32 -0500, "Existential Angst"

wrote:
"whoyakidding's ghost" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:54:11 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"whoyakidding's ghost" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:33:24 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Feb 26, 10:12 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
despite
the fact that there is 1/100 the mechanical complexity in an electric
than
in an ICE.

EVs are FAR more complex than an ICE car.
Hybrids even more so, you have two complete power systems inone car.

Yes but EA isn't interested in an actual EV. He thinks there could be
a cheap, full electric, long range, no computer, no airbags,
lightweight, roadworthy car that can also reduce his utility rate and
be so simple that even a proven mental midget could build it.

First, most of what you just said is lying bull****.
I already said the Volt design IS the right design.

NO! You said it's too heavy, has unnecessary computers and airbags,
takes too long to charge, doesn't get good enough mileage for you, the
electricity to power it costs you too much, it can't carry lathes or
cement pallets, lacks hub motors.... **** what's the point of going
on? It probably comes in the wrong colors.

Black is the only dignified color for a car.
All other colors are for housewives and Homeyz....

As Big Daddy Roth used to say, "if you have a really good body, paint
it black. Otherwise, paint it something else." Or George Barris: "If
in doubt, paint it black"

--
Ed Huntress

And of course you are a lying sack of ****.

It just should not be $45K.

I KNOW! They should sell it at an even bigger loss, so that you can
write that it's still too much and should be free unless it's
delivered in 30 minutes.

And yeah, lightweight would help, 2 airbags would suffice, etc.

Hell yeah! The cars, the car companies, society, the government, the
healthcare system, the education system, the highway safety
infrastructure, the energy industry (sorry if I missed any rants
there) ALL need to be redesigned by a crackpot. Once we rip the
overweight transaxle out of our '74 Beetles, and replace it with a
long range battery and an electric motor to create the ultimate 2000
lb car, we can rule the world! Heil Angst!

Yup.
But of course, you missed the much bigger point.

If the gummint were serious about going green, the Volt subsidy should
have
the car net out to no more than $20K.
It would then FLY off the shelves, and eventually support itself

Aha! And there we have it. You'll buy an EV if somebody pays it down
to the level of a Cruze. Except... no you won't!

And YOU..... * are calling ME...... * a crackpot??
Holy ****.....

If the Honder Fit goes kaput, my next car proly won't be a Volt, much as I'd
like, it'll proly be a Pruis c.
Or, if I can sleuth out more about those 136 mpg Insights, I'd finagle one
of those.

But, Kidding, no kidding, yer good, you can twist ANYTHING into
non-recognition, and you can do it with some amount of style. *Props to
you....

I'd keep an eye on the wife tho, cuz I have an idea your style wears thin
after a while -- esp with all the disingenuous twisting, conniving, and,
well, just plain ole lying. *Keep on eye on your landscaper, as well.

"As Big Daddy Roth used to say, "if you have a really good body, paint
it black."

From what I can tell from reading Ed Roth knew nothing about working
sheet metal. All his own stuff was fiberglass.

This guy has produced a DVD by for showing how you work with sheet
metal and the right way to do it. All you need are hand tools,
practice and imagination to get the job done right. His DVD cost me
$50.00 which included shipping from the UK. It's by far the best stuff
I've ever seen on metal shaping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGElSHzm0q8

Yeah, I saw that and I was impressed. It reminded me of my own attempt
around ten years ago. I turned some mallets on my lathe and sanded a
hollow in a maple stump. Then I proceeded to destroy pieces of 3003
aluminum. They were so bad, I didn't even think the recycler would
take them. g

Better luck to you. It's good therapy, I hear. (FWIW, I think I was
waiting too long to shrink out the scallops. By the time I got to
them, they wanted to fold over rather than shrink out.)

--
Ed Huntress


I think you would greatly benefit from watching David Gardner's video
to better understand the process. I've watched it at least ten times
and every time I watch it I get more out of it. My guess is you didn't
have enough of an understanding of the process which as far as I can
tell has never been documented very well. Documentation of panel
beating didn't really start until Ron Fournier's book:

http://www.fournierenterprises.com/BookPage.html

David Gardner's video and Ron Covell's videos take it to another
level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8hceHqVw2o

Watching the videos has made me be able to gain quite a bit more from
the books.

From what you described I'm guessing you didn't have a slapper or as
they are called in the UK a flipper or a stake dolly (much better than
trying to hold a dolly in your hand) to dress your "panel" out. The
puckers shrink into themselves as they are dressed over the stake
dolly.

On 2/28/2013 4:43 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

I couldn't find anything much, and I haven't taken a close look at
iPad's. I'll have to look next time I see one. Chances are I won't be
able to tell how it was made from just looking, but I'll look.


I'm referring to the original iPad only. All the later iPads use a
stamped metal housing. This makes sense - there's room for bigger
batteries and a thinner finished product.

On Feb 28, 11:36*am, "Existential Angst" wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote in message

...
On Feb 28, 7:34 am, whoyakidding's ghost
wrote:









On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:54:11 -0500, "Existential Angst"

wrote:
"whoyakidding's ghost" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:33:24 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Feb 26, 10:12 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
despite
the fact that there is 1/100 the mechanical complexity in an electric
than
in an ICE.

EVs are FAR more complex than an ICE car.
Hybrids even more so, you have two complete power systems inone car.

Yes but EA isn't interested in an actual EV. He thinks there could be
a cheap, full electric, long range, no computer, no airbags,
lightweight, roadworthy car that can also reduce his utility rate and
be so simple that even a proven mental midget could build it.

First, most of what you just said is lying bull****.
I already said the Volt design IS the right design.

NO! You said it's too heavy, has unnecessary computers and airbags,
takes too long to charge, doesn't get good enough mileage for you, the
electricity to power it costs you too much, it can't carry lathes or
cement pallets, lacks hub motors.... **** what's the point of going
on? It probably comes in the wrong colors.

It just should not be $45K.

I KNOW! They should sell it at an even bigger loss, so that you can
write that it's still too much and should be free unless it's
delivered in 30 minutes.

And yeah, lightweight would help, 2 airbags would suffice, etc.

Hell yeah! The cars, the car companies, society, the government, the
healthcare system, the education system, the highway safety
infrastructure, the energy industry (sorry if I missed any rants
there) ALL need to be redesigned by a crackpot. Once we rip the
overweight transaxle out of our '74 Beetles, and replace it with a
long range battery and an electric motor to create the ultimate 2000
lb car, we can rule the world! Heil Angst!

If the gummint were serious about going green, the Volt subsidy should
have
the car net out to no more than $20K.
It would then FLY off the shelves, and eventually support itself

Aha! And there we have it. You'll buy an EV if somebody pays it down
to the level of a Cruze. Except... no you won't!

"NO! You said it's too heavy,"

It is too heavy. It's designed to look like a conventional car to
appeal to buyers and that's what makes it too heavy.
==================================================

I just don't unnerstand what part of "too heavy" *these assholes can't
comprehend....
A compact car that weights 3500#???? *R U fukn kidding me???

NOW, if 2500# of that was BATTERY, that would be a different story.

As I mentioned, the fuknVolt weighs more than my 1990 Mazda 929S, which was
Mazder's knockoff of the two-tone Mercedes 450.... and it's now 23 years
later. * So much for light-weight alloys, eh?

Hmmmm..... *mebbe I WON'T buy a Volt...... * LOL

And I don't understand what part of *"hp is inversely proportional to mpg's"
these assholes don't unnerstand....

But it don't really matter -- these same assholes don't unnerstand
"population control", either..... I guess dats a libruhl concept....
But until they do grok pop control, Ponzi Economics will be ****in everybody
in the ass, pretty much making mpg's moot.
--
EA

"I just don't unnerstand what part of "too heavy" these assholes
can't comprehend...."

All of it. Trying to make a hybrid car look exactly like a regular car
is a big mistake with present technology.

"dsi1" wrote in message
...
I'm willing to wait to see who's right. This discussion is over.
BTW, I never said that mass produced objects will be manufactured
with 3D printing. That's an idiotic notion.

Make yourself some artsy door pulls or toothpaste tube rollers or
replacement laptop lid latches with 3D plastic and see how long they
last, especially if they have threaded holes. Those are examples I've
hand-crafted from metal. Things that break and need custom
replacements often were too weak when made from a good, strong
injection molding resin.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:49:57 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:07:16 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:42:48 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:22:19 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:13:39 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:56:32 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:58:08 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:18:06 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:06:30 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:27:24 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 01:17:20 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Feb 25, 7:24*pm, Transition Zone wrote:
On Feb 25, 12:58*pm, harry wrote:







On Feb 25, 4:56*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Electric vehicles are wonderful for the capabilities they have. The
electric car can never take the place of a gasoline powered vehicle
until it has the range and convenience of what we have now. Perhaps
a small nuclear reactor would give an electrically driven vehicle the
ability to travel long distances without having to stop every 50 miles
to recharge the battery. My concept of vehicle range is one that travels
far enough and long enough so that I must stop to empty my bladder
before the vehicle runs out of power. ^_^

* *There were five mounting locations for 30 gallon tanks on my old
stepvan service truck. *Fully loaded, it got over 20 MPG or 600+ miles
per tank. Dual tanks easily let you drive over a thousand miles. *All
five would take you over 3000 miles, if you could afford to fill all of
them. ;-)

* In Europe we let the train take the strain. *Or the bus.

*Or fly.

North of Washington, we do that in the states, too.

Ah. The area first colonised, hence the most civilised:-)

No, idiot, the area with the densest people, like Europe.

Oh..that would be Northern Michigan, rather than the East Coast.

No, even the back-woods hicks of the UP are no match for their NE
cousins. Evidence, Mayor Doomberg.

The UP was explored and settled long before most of the Eastern states

I kinda think NY and MA were settled a bit before, though they're
still pretty unsettling places to live.

Actually..not true.

Go on... (Is that you, harry?)

But they are indeed pretty unsettling places to live.

The only places worse are IL and CA.

Nah...California is actually pretty nice in most places. Except the
Leftwingers run it.

That will ruin the best of places. Italy, Greece, California, all the
same.

The Central Valley is a very nice Red Zone.

Still owned by the leftists.

Hell...most of the state votes Red (conservative) except for 3-4 of
the urban areas

That's true of the entire country. The problem is that those few
pinko areas have too many takers forcing the makers elsewhere to
support them.

Now California..has been explored and settled long before most of the
eastern states. Hell..the Chinese used to come over and trade with the
indians back nearly in the BC times.

Well you sound like harry, now, paleface....

Paleface? Im Original People. Ojibwa.

Gesundheit!

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:41:45 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:10:18 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:15:13 -0600, Doug
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:57:49 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:44:49 -0800, Spam?uster

Wow, the little moron knows how to look at a header. Who would have
thunk?




Shocking ... LOL

Your ignorance certainly is Dumbie.


I knew you'd reply here. So predictable !!

You replied to me, with an asinine post and then are *shocked* that I
replied to you? Dumbie, you are as stupid as they come. ...but you
knew that.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:49:46 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 3:40 PM, Gunner wrote:

Like Transparent Aluminum.

Google it..it now exists

Sound like great stuff. Hopefully someone could make a car and engine
out of this material.

What, you think you're Wonder Woman? ;-)

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:43:22 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Feb 28, 1:31*pm, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/28/2013 11:18 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:









On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:49:14 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 10:31 AM, jon_banquer wrote:

Your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is the most over-hyped
technology I know of.

My guess is that your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is going to
change our relationship to manufactured objects. All of a sudden we'll
be able to create things ourselves. We won't have to hire guys with
hammers, saws, and chisels. So there! :-)

Don't sell your hammers yet. Jon's right. The general press coverage
of this stuff is over the top.

The press coverages is over the top. We should expect that with amazing,
new, technology.

Fabricating custom hearing aid shells, which house the electronics of
the aids, and are made to fit an individual's ear, are a perfect
utilization of this technology. It's been used in the industry for about
10 years. OTOH, I know of one manufacturer that creates the shell by
hand, the old-fashioned way, and the product is great but it's a
time-consuming, messy, process.

There will still be a few guys that beat panels by hand and they'll be
admired for their skill and we'll find it hard to believe that at one
time, that is how everybody used to do it. It's always good to remember
these old things and old ways.









It is truly amazing technology, and no doubt we haven't seen nuthin'
yet. But there's nothing on the visible horizon that could live up to
the things that the press is talking about.

"There will still be a few guys that beat panels by hand and they'll
be admired for their skill and we'll find it hard to believe that at
one time, that is how everybody used to do it. It's always good to
remember these old things and old ways."


What it appears you really want to not pay your dues and learn a skill
like sheet metal forming or machining. Instead, you hope that 3D
printing will eliminate the skill set, the knowledge and the
experience required to do many jobs right.

I'm sorry to bust your bubble but this isn't going to happen.

I suppose there is still a market for blacksmiths, too.

On Feb 28, 8:19*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:43:22 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer









wrote:
On Feb 28, 1:31*pm, dsi1 wrote:
On 2/28/2013 11:18 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:49:14 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 10:31 AM, jon_banquer wrote:

Your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is the most over-hyped
technology I know of.

My guess is that your guess would be wrong. 3D printing is going to
change our relationship to manufactured objects. All of a sudden we'll
be able to create things ourselves. We won't have to hire guys with
hammers, saws, and chisels. So there! :-)

Don't sell your hammers yet. Jon's right. The general press coverage
of this stuff is over the top.

The press coverages is over the top. We should expect that with amazing,
new, technology.

Fabricating custom hearing aid shells, which house the electronics of
the aids, and are made to fit an individual's ear, are a perfect
utilization of this technology. It's been used in the industry for about
10 years. OTOH, I know of one manufacturer that creates the shell by
hand, the old-fashioned way, and the product is great but it's a
time-consuming, messy, process.

There will still be a few guys that beat panels by hand and they'll be
admired for their skill and we'll find it hard to believe that at one
time, that is how everybody used to do it. It's always good to remember
these old things and old ways.

It is truly amazing technology, and no doubt we haven't seen nuthin'
yet. But there's nothing on the visible horizon that could live up to
the things that the press is talking about.

"There will still be a few guys that beat panels by hand and they'll
be admired for their skill and we'll find it hard to believe that at
one time, that is how everybody used to do it. It's always good to
remember these old things and old ways."

What it appears you really want to not pay your dues and learn a skill
like sheet metal forming or machining. Instead, you hope that 3D
printing will eliminate the skill set, the knowledge and the
experience required to do many jobs right.

I'm sorry to bust your bubble but this isn't going to happen.

I suppose there is still a market for blacksmiths, too.


Being able to create you own forgings can be very useful:

Enjoy!

http://vimeo.com/18589617

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:49:46 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 3:40 PM, Gunner wrote:

Like Transparent Aluminum.

Google it..it now exists

Sound like great stuff. Hopefully someone could make a car and engine
out of this material.

Hopefully they will make airplane windows out of that stuff.

That would be a very good start.

Gunner




Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:40:53 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 1:51 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

No, that wasn't what I meant. It's sort of an inside joke here, and,
unless you really want to know, I'll avoid bothering you with it.

If it looks like it's machined from solid aluminum, and if it doesn't
look like one or more sides of it are not machined, but cast, then it
probably is machined from solid aluminum.

It's the "billet" word that's the joke. Don't worry about it.

I guess "billet" is a funny word. OK we'll leave it a private joke.

Its not the word...but the application

VBG



That's the way you'd expect it to be made - that or stamped sheet metal.
The trouble is that it doesn't appear to be made that way. I'd be
interested in any info you have on this.

Well, do you have a photo of it?

You could Google it. I don't have any photos of it but I do have the
product in hand. It's the first series iPad. I thought you might have an
some expert info on this.



The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On 2/28/2013 6:18 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:49:46 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 3:40 PM, Gunner wrote:

Like Transparent Aluminum.

Google it..it now exists

Sound like great stuff. Hopefully someone could make a car and engine
out of this material.

What, you think you're Wonder Woman? ;-)


Don't be ridiculous - everybody knows she had an invisible plane!

On 2/28/2013 7:05 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:49:46 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 3:40 PM, Gunner wrote:

Like Transparent Aluminum.

Google it..it now exists

Sound like great stuff. Hopefully someone could make a car and engine
out of this material.

Hopefully they will make airplane windows out of that stuff.

That would be a very good start.

It's a good start alright - for a completely transparent plane.


Gunner




Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On 2/28/2013 7:13 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:40:53 -1000, dsi1
wrote:

On 2/28/2013 1:51 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

No, that wasn't what I meant. It's sort of an inside joke here, and,
unless you really want to know, I'll avoid bothering you with it.

If it looks like it's machined from solid aluminum, and if it doesn't
look like one or more sides of it are not machined, but cast, then it
probably is machined from solid aluminum.

It's the "billet" word that's the joke. Don't worry about it.

I guess "billet" is a funny word. OK we'll leave it a private joke.

Its not the word...but the application

Please, don't say any more - you're going to ruin the secret!


VBG

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 21:08:20 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:37:46 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:35:35 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:57:03 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:59:42 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:


So this is a Hollywood special effects piece?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw6NFmcnW-8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrZJsvDy19I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N98mXwTsx5A

The fact that none of them are being built today should give you your
answer. They just can't cut it.

Steam is just not an answer, Gunner, no matter how much you may like
it.


Say...isnt the internal combustion engine somewhere around 28%
effecient?

Not the latest ones. We're headed for 40% as a typical number within a
few years. Some cars surpass it now.

--
Ed Huntress

http://www.instructables.com/answers...rn-for-modern/

Read the first comment by SteamRoss.53. He has it right, except for
the uniflow steam engines running on superheated steam. The whole
point of uniflows is to avoid the need for superheated steam. You can
do it, but it has nothing to do with the uniflow's operation or
performance.

Other than that minor nitpick, the guy knows what he's talking about.


http://www.cyclonepower.com/

shrug A hyped-up flash-boiler feeding a radial engine. They've been
around for over 100 years.


Intersting.

Note that the feature pushed for the "Cyclone" is fuel flexibility.
That's what drove the Stirling developments in the 1970s, including
Ford's fleet of Stirling-powered postal trucks.

What happened is that we since learned how to burn just about any
liquid or gaseous fuel in IC engines, and they have many advantages.

Bunker fuel will burn in a pickup truck?

If we're reduced to bunker oil, it will mean that your pickup truck is
too hot with radiation to drive, and you'll either be deep underground
or dead.

Do you have bunker oil stations in Taft?

We have bunker oil wells in Taft.

You do know I live in the middle of the Kern-Sunset oil fields, right?

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 23:13:50 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:49:57 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:07:16 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:42:48 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:22:19 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:13:39 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:56:32 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:58:08 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:18:06 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 23:06:30 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:27:24 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 01:17:20 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Feb 25, 7:24*pm, Transition Zone wrote:
On Feb 25, 12:58*pm, harry wrote:







On Feb 25, 4:56*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Electric vehicles are wonderful for the capabilities they have. The
electric car can never take the place of a gasoline powered vehicle
until it has the range and convenience of what we have now. Perhaps
a small nuclear reactor would give an electrically driven vehicle the
ability to travel long distances without having to stop every 50 miles
to recharge the battery. My concept of vehicle range is one that travels
far enough and long enough so that I must stop to empty my bladder
before the vehicle runs out of power. ^_^

* *There were five mounting locations for 30 gallon tanks on my old
stepvan service truck. *Fully loaded, it got over 20 MPG or 600+ miles
per tank. Dual tanks easily let you drive over a thousand miles. *All
five would take you over 3000 miles, if you could afford to fill all of
them. ;-)

* In Europe we let the train take the strain. *Or the bus.

*Or fly.

North of Washington, we do that in the states, too.

Ah. The area first colonised, hence the most civilised:-)

No, idiot, the area with the densest people, like Europe.

Oh..that would be Northern Michigan, rather than the East Coast.

No, even the back-woods hicks of the UP are no match for their NE
cousins. Evidence, Mayor Doomberg.

The UP was explored and settled long before most of the Eastern states

I kinda think NY and MA were settled a bit before, though they're
still pretty unsettling places to live.

Actually..not true.

Go on... (Is that you, harry?)

But they are indeed pretty unsettling places to live.

The only places worse are IL and CA.

Nah...California is actually pretty nice in most places. Except the
Leftwingers run it.

That will ruin the best of places. Italy, Greece, California, all the
same.

The Central Valley is a very nice Red Zone.

Still owned by the leftists.

Hell...most of the state votes Red (conservative) except for 3-4 of
the urban areas

That's true of the entire country. The problem is that those few
pinko areas have too many takers forcing the makers elsewhere to
support them.

Now California..has been explored and settled long before most of the
eastern states. Hell..the Chinese used to come over and trade with the
indians back nearly in the BC times.

Well you sound like harry, now, paleface....

Paleface? Im Original People. Ojibwa.

Gesundheit!


ROFLMAO!!!!

Well done!!!

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie