Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

TIA

RickH wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

220 volts times 16
amps = 3520 watts or 3.52 killowatthour. Multiply by 15¢/kwhr =
52.8¢/hour. It looks like $2.64 for 5 hours.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH
wrote:

Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out
another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

On Nov 13, 5:35*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH

wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. *40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. *Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out
another way of taxing you. *That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.

On 11/13/2010 9:22 PM, RickH wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:35 pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH

wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out
another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.



IMHO, right now, plug-in electrics are in the stage of 'if you have to
ask, you can't afford it'. Let the rich yuppies buy them for the first
five years, and pay for the ramp-up and beta testing. Early Adopters
always end up paying twice what the normal person a few years later
pays. We are just now getting toward end-of-design-lifespan on the Gen I
Hybrid cars, and I have to wonder if the cratering sales of those is
related to real-world promises not kept about range and durability, or
simply to the sky-high costs to play.

--
aem sends...

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
On 11/13/2010 9:22 PM, RickH wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:35 pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH

wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures
out
another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the initial
cost.

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.



IMHO, right now, plug-in electrics are in the stage of 'if you have to
ask, you can't afford it'. Let the rich yuppies buy them for the first
five years, and pay for the ramp-up and beta testing. Early Adopters
always end up paying twice what the normal person a few years later pays.
We are just now getting toward end-of-design-lifespan on the Gen I Hybrid
cars, and I have to wonder if the cratering sales of those is related to
real-world promises not kept about range and durability, or simply to the
sky-high costs to play.

--
aem sends...


I'm not entirely sure of the message you're trying to convey but hybrid
sales in Austin TX are as brisk as ever. We have almost 50k on our 2005
Prius and it's a dependable car that gets amazing gas mileage. The cost of
it was about the same as a Camry. Not one problem. The thing is built solid.

I was skeptical when we bought it but my wife really wanted it and it turned
out to be a very good decision so far. I'm a big believer in not buying the
"new model" but the Prius had been around for a few years when we got ours.
On the Volt I think I'd wait a few years. Plus, I hear they cost much more
than a Prius.

Jim

wrote

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures
out
another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the initial
cost.


I drive about 22,000 miles per year so potential savings are $660 a year.
The "premium" over a comparable sized car is at least $12,000. I'll break
even after only 18 years.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 18:22:49 -0800 (PST), RickH
wrote:

On Nov 13, 5:35*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH

wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. *40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. *Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out
another way of taxing you. *That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

Where? The price includes the taxes. It's not like you have a choice. I
just filled up at $2.59 yesterday. You have forty cents in additional gas
taxes?

GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.

Certainly, though it depends on how they run the batteries. AIUI, they're
very conservative in the charge cycle limits to extend battery life. They may
be playing games with this for more range in cold weather.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.

Power companies are pretty efficient. You won't come close and, of course,
their fuel costs are a lot lower.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state
figures out
another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the
initial cost.


I drive about 22,000 miles per year so potential savings are $660 a
year. The "premium" over a comparable sized car is at least $12,000.
I'll break even after only 18 years.
I'd like to see the math on that one.
Stated another way, send me $12,000 and I'll gladly
return $660 per year for 18 years. Break even...right?

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 23:39:00 -0800, mike wrote Re
Help me figure the cost to charge a Chevy Volt in my town?:

I drive about 22,000 miles per year so potential savings are $660 a
year. The "premium" over a comparable sized car is at least $12,000.
I'll break even after only 18 years.
I'd like to see the math on that one.
Stated another way, send me $12,000 and I'll gladly
return $660 per year for 18 years. Break even...right?

Well, 12000/660 = 18.182 so he's assuming a discount rate of about 0%
which is correct for the economy the Fed has set up (and which will
lead to inflation and another speculative bubble).
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

RickH wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.


What difference could the cost possibly make; it's for the children.

Plus the smug factor.

On 11/13/2010 10:55 PM, JimT wrote:
(snip)


I'm not entirely sure of the message you're trying to convey but hybrid
sales in Austin TX are as brisk as ever. We have almost 50k on our 2005
Prius and it's a dependable car that gets amazing gas mileage. The cost
of it was about the same as a Camry. Not one problem. The thing is built
solid.

I was skeptical when we bought it but my wife really wanted it and it
turned out to be a very good decision so far. I'm a big believer in not
buying the "new model" but the Prius had been around for a few years
when we got ours. On the Volt I think I'd wait a few years. Plus, I hear
they cost much more than a Prius.

Jim

50k should be maybe 1/4 through the design lifespan of a car. If it is
still running fine at 200k, and still has the original battery pack,
then the car may be interesting. For those of us who are cheap SOBs
and/or live lower on the food chain, brand new cars are not an option.
(I never understood people who calmly accept ALWAYS having a car
payment. Pay one off, and immediately buy another one. If I can't write
a check for a car, I don't buy it.)

As to Hybrid sales tanking- I'm just going by what the business sections
in the Detroit newspapers say- I have no way to personally verify. I
certainly don't see many on the road here in SW MI.
--
aem sends...

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
On 11/13/2010 10:55 PM, JimT wrote:
(snip)


I'm not entirely sure of the message you're trying to convey but hybrid
sales in Austin TX are as brisk as ever. We have almost 50k on our 2005
Prius and it's a dependable car that gets amazing gas mileage. The cost
of it was about the same as a Camry. Not one problem. The thing is built
solid.

I was skeptical when we bought it but my wife really wanted it and it
turned out to be a very good decision so far. I'm a big believer in not
buying the "new model" but the Prius had been around for a few years
when we got ours. On the Volt I think I'd wait a few years. Plus, I hear
they cost much more than a Prius.

Jim

50k should be maybe 1/4 through the design lifespan of a car. If it is
still running fine at 200k, and still has the original battery pack, then
the car may be interesting. For those of us who are cheap SOBs and/or live
lower on the food chain, brand new cars are not an option. (I never
understood people who calmly accept ALWAYS having a car payment. Pay one
off, and immediately buy another one. If I can't write a check for a car,
I don't buy it.)

As to Hybrid sales tanking- I'm just going by what the business sections
in the Detroit newspapers say- I have no way to personally verify. I
certainly don't see many on the road here in SW MI.
--
aem sends...


All could very well be true.

I seriously doubt the battery is going to last until 200k but they are
lasting longer than expected. The battery is covered for 100k and the price
we were quoted for replacement was approx. $3k. I figured it would drop in
price. Right now they (Toyota) isn't sure how long they last, last time I
checked.

I'm with you on car payments. The Prius has been paid off for quite a while
now and I drive a 98 Tacoma I bought used. I'm sure if we buy another hybrid
we'll pay cash. We've been "cash only" for quite awhile now. The only loan
we have is our mortgage and I'm working on that one.

Jim

"mike" wrote in message
...
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures
out
another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the initial
cost.


I drive about 22,000 miles per year so potential savings are $660 a year.
The "premium" over a comparable sized car is at least $12,000. I'll
break even after only 18 years.
I'd like to see the math on that one.
Stated another way, send me $12,000 and I'll gladly
return $660 per year for 18 years. Break even...right?

They are just raw numbers. You'd also have to factor in three battery packs
in that time adding another $9000 or 13 more years and that means two more
battery packs for $6000 or another ten years.

In any case, you know what I was alluding to.

Save me the trouble of researching this elsewhere.

Is the Volt an electric car that happens to carry around an engine-
generator set? Or is it a plug-in hybrid?

Yes, I know technically former would also be a type of plug-in hybrid but
what I mean is whether the propulsion is all-electric and the engine ONLY
makes electricity when needed or whether when it's running it drives the
car with a mechanical connection into the transmission just as is the case
with the Ford and Toyota hybrid systems.

PS: I'm betting when all-electric cars like the Leaf hit the market some
people are going to be doing aftermarket modifications to add gen-sets to
them to extend the range and prevent strandings.

RickH wrote:
....

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. ...

That assumes full power draw that entire 5-hours; I'd reckon it doesn't
pull close to that for a significant fraction of that time.

So, that part's an overestimate of cost but US nominal voltages are
120/240V so that using 220V is underestimating so it probably about
balances out...

--

Steve Kraus wrote:
Save me the trouble of researching this elsewhere.

Is the Volt an electric car that happens to carry around an engine-
generator set? Or is it a plug-in hybrid?

A plug in hybrid from what I understand. I guess GM was fudging
on this issue a bit. The engine will directly drive the wheels at times.

On Nov 13, 5:33*pm, RickH wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. *40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. *Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

TIA
You are asking in the Wrong group....with the advise you recieve here
you can not only lose your arguement at work but you can lose your
soul as well.

Patecumseh

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

RickH wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.


What difference could the cost possibly make; it's for the children.

Plus the smug factor.

They're commuter cars, anyway. One should charge them at work rather
than at home.

In article ,
"JimT" wrote:



I'm with you on car payments. The Prius has been paid off for quite a while
now and I drive a 98 Tacoma I bought used. I'm sure if we buy another hybrid
we'll pay cash. We've been "cash only" for quite awhile now. The only loan
we have is our mortgage and I'm working on that one.

Jim

It's you anti-consumers who are destroying our economy. Now stand up and
act like a Real Patriotic American, and go charge up a bunch of stuff.

Smitty Two wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

RickH wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.


What difference could the cost possibly make; it's for the children.

Plus the smug factor.

They're commuter cars, anyway. One should charge them at work rather
than at home.

There would have to be enough outlets available all across the parking
lot,or electric-only spaces,most likely the latter.
also,who pays for the charge?

Vandals could also unplug your car on you while you're at work.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"JimT" wrote:



I'm with you on car payments. The Prius has been paid off for quite a
while
now and I drive a 98 Tacoma I bought used. I'm sure if we buy another
hybrid
we'll pay cash. We've been "cash only" for quite awhile now. The only
loan
we have is our mortgage and I'm working on that one.

Jim

It's you anti-consumers who are destroying our economy. Now stand up and
act like a Real Patriotic American, and go charge up a bunch of stuff.

Nah...My wife spends it as fast as she makes it. You can count on her. I'm
the yin to her yang.

Now that she's not paying all that money in interest she realized she has
more money to buy stuff we don't need or stuff she didn't remember she
already has. And I'm not joking. Luckily she makes a lot of money.

Women keep the world spinning.

Jim

In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:

Smitty Two wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

RickH wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.


What difference could the cost possibly make; it's for the children.

Plus the smug factor.

They're commuter cars, anyway. One should charge them at work rather
than at home.

There would have to be enough outlets available all across the parking
lot,or electric-only spaces,most likely the latter.
also,who pays for the charge?

Vandals could also unplug your car on you while you're at work.

Uh, I was joking, Jim, but a big company constructing new facilities
might do well to outfit it with a fair number of charging stations, and
offer the electricity as a fringe benefit to anyone wanting to take
advantage of it.

In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"JimT" wrote:



I'm with you on car payments. The Prius has been paid off for quite a
while
now and I drive a 98 Tacoma I bought used. I'm sure if we buy another
hybrid
we'll pay cash. We've been "cash only" for quite awhile now. The only
loan
we have is our mortgage and I'm working on that one.

Jim

It's you anti-consumers who are destroying our economy. Now stand up and
act like a Real Patriotic American, and go charge up a bunch of stuff.

Nah...My wife spends it as fast as she makes it. You can count on her. I'm
the yin to her yang.

Now that she's not paying all that money in interest she realized she has
more money to buy stuff we don't need or stuff she didn't remember she
already has. And I'm not joking. Luckily she makes a lot of money.

Women keep the world spinning.

Jim

My g.f. is about as frugal as they come. Was in the thrift store with
her a while back (a place I never go on my own) and figured I'd browse
the men's shirts just to kill time while waiting for her. Found a good
quality shirt in great condition, but when I showed it to her she said,
no, $6 is too much for that.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"JimT" wrote:



I'm with you on car payments. The Prius has been paid off for quite a
while
now and I drive a 98 Tacoma I bought used. I'm sure if we buy another
hybrid
we'll pay cash. We've been "cash only" for quite awhile now. The only
loan
we have is our mortgage and I'm working on that one.

Jim

It's you anti-consumers who are destroying our economy. Now stand up
and
act like a Real Patriotic American, and go charge up a bunch of stuff.

Nah...My wife spends it as fast as she makes it. You can count on her.
I'm
the yin to her yang.

Now that she's not paying all that money in interest she realized she has
more money to buy stuff we don't need or stuff she didn't remember she
already has. And I'm not joking. Luckily she makes a lot of money.

Women keep the world spinning.

Jim

My g.f. is about as frugal as they come. Was in the thrift store with
her a while back (a place I never go on my own) and figured I'd browse
the men's shirts just to kill time while waiting for her. Found a good
quality shirt in great condition, but when I showed it to her she said,
no, $6 is too much for that.

I had a gf that loved flea markets. I got tired of looking at stuff other
people didn't want.

As far as "stuff" goes, I have just about everything I want. Shopping is a
chore to me. For my wife it's an obsession. I have to stay home so I don't
spoil her high.

Jim

In ,
RickH typed:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work
Monday morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220
volt branch drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will
cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all
electric drive) should tell me how much money per mile it
will cost to use up that electricity (or coal in my area)
as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on
all gas from the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly
(probably overrated) 33 MPG. So I can figure out that the
dollars per mile running on gas will be approx 10 cents a
mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on
a per mile basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40
miles is being too kind considering that in cold weather GM
says you may only get 25 miles out of the charge. Or even
lose half the charge while you sit in work with the car
sub-freezing outside.

TIA

I see a couple half way reasonable not very good responses so far, so I
won't go there. If you want true $/mile though, you also have to factor in
the cost of battery replacements every x years, whatever it says it is; I
forget now but it's expensive. Also, the batteries should ALL be replaced at
once or you have going-bad batteries draining down the good batteries. It's
supposely a lot cheaper in the long run to change them all at once and not
just the "bad" batteries for those reasons.
With those factored in, then you get a much truer estimate of cost per
mile.
I was almost ready to buy a Volt until I discovered that it might not
make it the daily 16 miles round trip on the coldest winter days. It might
have to be plugged in for the 8 to 10 hours it's parked out in the cold. Not
something an employer would agree to.

On Nov 13, 10:26*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 18:22:49 -0800 (PST), RickH





wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:35*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH

wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. *40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. *Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out
another way of taxing you. *That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

Where? *The price includes the taxes. *It's not like you have a choice. * I
just filled up at $2.59 yesterday. *You have forty cents in additional gas
taxes?



GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.

Certainly, though it depends on how they run the batteries. *AIUI, they're
very conservative in the charge cycle limits to extend battery life. *They may
be playing games with this for more range in cold weather.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. *But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. *Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. *It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.

Power companies are pretty efficient. *You won't come close and, of course,
their fuel costs are a lot lower.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes in Chicago that is about the amount of the taxes close to .50.

On Nov 14, 11:48*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,





*"JimT" wrote:
"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

I'm with you on car payments. The Prius has been paid off for quite a
while
now and I drive a 98 Tacoma I bought used. I'm sure if we buy another
hybrid
we'll pay cash. We've been "cash only" for quite awhile now. The only
loan
we have is our mortgage and I'm working on that one.

Jim

It's you anti-consumers who are destroying our economy. Now stand up and
act like a Real Patriotic American, and go charge up a bunch of stuff..

Nah...My wife spends it as fast as she makes it. You can count on her. I'm
the yin to her yang.

Now that she's not paying all that money in interest she realized she has
more money to buy stuff we don't need or stuff she didn't remember she
already has. And I'm not joking. Luckily she makes a lot of money.

Women keep the world spinning.

Jim

My g.f. is about as frugal as they come. Was in the thrift store with
her a while back (a place I never go on my own) and figured I'd browse
the men's shirts just to kill time while waiting for her. Found a good
quality shirt in great condition, but when I showed it to her she said,
no, $6 is too much for that.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It was too much, shirts at Goodwill are $1 to $4. I got a tuxedo
there for $6.99, the cleaners altered it for $20, cant beat that.

On Nov 14, 11:53*am, "JimT" wrote:
"Smitty Two" wrote in message

news




In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

I'm with you on car payments. The Prius has been paid off for quite a
while
now and I drive a 98 Tacoma I bought used. I'm sure if we buy another
hybrid
we'll pay cash. We've been "cash only" for quite awhile now. The only
loan
we have is our mortgage and I'm working on that one.

Jim

It's you anti-consumers who are destroying our economy. Now stand up
and
act like a Real Patriotic American, and go charge up a bunch of stuff.

Nah...My wife spends it as fast as she makes it. You can count on her.
I'm
the yin to her yang.

Now that she's not paying all that money in interest she realized she has
more money to buy stuff we don't need or stuff she didn't remember she
already has. And I'm not joking. Luckily she makes a lot of money.

Women keep the world spinning.

Jim

My g.f. is about as frugal as they come. Was in the thrift store with
her a while back (a place I never go on my own) and figured I'd browse
the men's shirts just to kill time while waiting for her. Found a good
quality shirt in great condition, but when I showed it to her she said,
no, $6 is too much for that.

I had a gf that loved flea markets. I got tired of looking at stuff other
people didn't want.

As far as "stuff" goes, I have just about everything I want. Shopping is a
chore to me. For my wife it's an obsession. I have to stay home so I don't
spoil her high.

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Warning, a man should never let his wife become the person who dresses
him, men need their own style and need to know how to maintain it.
Otherwise eventually your wife will look upon you as a boy she has to
take care of, I speak the truth

On 11/14/2010 3:32 PM, RickH wrote:
(snip)

Warning, a man should never let his wife become the person who dresses
him, men need their own style and need to know how to maintain it.
Otherwise eventually your wife will look upon you as a boy she has to
take care of, I speak the truth


Eventually? Guess it depends how they were raised. People tend to treat
their spouse the same way the parent of the same sex treated the other
parent. Until recent years, women were raised to think how their husband
looked was a reflection on them, and how well they did their wifely
home-making duties. Since most guys will happily wear the same clothes
until they start smelling or itching, it is not surprising that many men
let their wives pick and purchase their clothes- after all, that is what
their mommy used to do for their father, and for them as well.

I have no spouse or SWMBO, but my sisters keep giving me clothes for
Christmas and such. I thank them, take them home, and mostly hang them
carefully in the closet to wear on my next visit. Shirts without
pockets? What idiot thought of that? And I prefer my coats without
circus stripes. You get the idea.

--
aem, wearing rags as usual, sends....

In article
,
RickH wrote:



It was too much, shirts at Goodwill are $1 to $4. I got a tuxedo
there for $6.99, the cleaners altered it for $20, cant beat that.

Some comedian once quipped that his laundry service had gotten too
expensive. Instead, he took his shirts to Goodwill, where they were
cleaned and pressed. Then he went and bought them back for $1.

Smitty Two wrote in
news
In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:

Smitty Two wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

They're commuter cars, anyway. One should charge them at work
rather than at home.

There would have to be enough outlets available all across the
parking lot,or electric-only spaces,most likely the latter.
also,who pays for the charge?

Vandals could also unplug your car on you while you're at work.

Uh, I was joking, Jim, but a big company constructing new facilities
might do well to outfit it with a fair number of charging stations,
and offer the electricity as a fringe benefit to anyone wanting to
take advantage of it.


then you'll get electricity theives who hook up at night to power their
RVs... B-)

HMM,mobile pot growing semi-trucks? mark them as ordinary shipping truck
lines.....move around every night to elude discovery.... ;-)

seriously,
I'm surprised Nike or Microsoft hasn't done it yet.
They could include them at their executive reserved parking spots.

I could see a small company doing it,as they would not have to install so
many outlets or stations.

Did you catch the Autoweek episode yesterday on PBS,about electrics?
I was surprised to hear about a 480v charging station for rapid charges.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

"RickH" wrote in message
...
On Nov 14, 11:53 am, "JimT" wrote:
"Smitty Two" wrote in message

news




In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

I'm with you on car payments. The Prius has been paid off for quite
a
while
now and I drive a 98 Tacoma I bought used. I'm sure if we buy
another
hybrid
we'll pay cash. We've been "cash only" for quite awhile now. The
only
loan
we have is our mortgage and I'm working on that one.

Jim

It's you anti-consumers who are destroying our economy. Now stand up
and
act like a Real Patriotic American, and go charge up a bunch of
stuff.

Nah...My wife spends it as fast as she makes it. You can count on her.
I'm
the yin to her yang.

Now that she's not paying all that money in interest she realized she
has
more money to buy stuff we don't need or stuff she didn't remember she
already has. And I'm not joking. Luckily she makes a lot of money.

Women keep the world spinning.

Jim

My g.f. is about as frugal as they come. Was in the thrift store with
her a while back (a place I never go on my own) and figured I'd browse
the men's shirts just to kill time while waiting for her. Found a good
quality shirt in great condition, but when I showed it to her she said,
no, $6 is too much for that.

I had a gf that loved flea markets. I got tired of looking at stuff other
people didn't want.

As far as "stuff" goes, I have just about everything I want. Shopping is a
chore to me. For my wife it's an obsession. I have to stay home so I don't
spoil her high.

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Warning, a man should never let his wife become the person who dresses
him, men need their own style and need to know how to maintain it.
Otherwise eventually your wife will look upon you as a boy she has to
take care of, I speak the truth

==

I guess I'm okay because I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Jim

On 11/14/2010 5:05 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:
Smitty wrote in
news
In . 3.44,
Jim wrote:

Smitty wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

They're commuter cars, anyway. One should charge them at work
rather than at home.

There would have to be enough outlets available all across the
parking lot,or electric-only spaces,most likely the latter.
also,who pays for the charge?

Vandals could also unplug your car on you while you're at work.

Uh, I was joking, Jim, but a big company constructing new facilities
might do well to outfit it with a fair number of charging stations,
and offer the electricity as a fringe benefit to anyone wanting to
take advantage of it.


then you'll get electricity theives who hook up at night to power their
RVs... B-)

HMM,mobile pot growing semi-trucks? mark them as ordinary shipping truck
lines.....move around every night to elude discovery.... ;-)

seriously,
I'm surprised Nike or Microsoft hasn't done it yet.
They could include them at their executive reserved parking spots.

I could see a small company doing it,as they would not have to install so
many outlets or stations.

Did you catch the Autoweek episode yesterday on PBS,about electrics?
I was surprised to hear about a 480v charging station for rapid charges.



After-hours power thieves at commercial sites that don't have a security
perimeter are easy to prevent. Just put a big-ass switch inside the
building to turn the charging stations off. First person there in the
morning turns it back on.

--
aem sends...

In net,
JimT typed:

....

Warning, a man should never let his wife become the person
who dresses him, men need their own style and need to know
how to maintain it. Otherwise eventually your wife will
look upon you as a boy she has to take care of, I speak the
truth
....

A wife won't look at her husband as a boy she has to take care of unless he
acts like a boy that needs taking care of. You speak of ignorance and a very
small minority of people.

"aemeijers" wrote in message
news
On 11/14/2010 3:32 PM, RickH wrote:
(snip)

Warning, a man should never let his wife become the person who dresses
him, men need their own style and need to know how to maintain it.
Otherwise eventually your wife will look upon you as a boy she has to
take care of, I speak the truth

snip

Relationships are way to complicated to say something that general. That may
have been Rick's experience. However, I've always bought my own clothes. My
wife knows I'm picky about them.

Jim

"Twayne" wrote in message
...
In net,
JimT typed:

...

Warning, a man should never let his wife become the person
who dresses him, men need their own style and need to know
how to maintain it. Otherwise eventually your wife will
look upon you as a boy she has to take care of, I speak the
truth
...

A wife won't look at her husband as a boy she has to take care of unless
he acts like a boy that needs taking care of. You speak of ignorance and a
very small minority of people.


Oh yeah I agree but I didn't write that piece of nonsense, The quotes got
messed up. (Rick is a googler)

Jim

Biggest trouble with these is their 40 mph range, tin can safety, and slow
speeds. Some electric cars go faster and farther, up to 1,000 miles, but
they haven't been able to figure out how to make that long of an extension
cord yet.

If we all were driving them, it would be a different thing. But I see
people driving around in these tin cans with normal sized cars, and just
hope they have their wills made out. Even a VW Beetle would be able to push
one around.

Just me. I'll keep my Ram 2500 diesel.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 12:24:39 -0800 (PST), RickH
wrote:

On Nov 13, 10:26*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 18:22:49 -0800 (PST), RickH





wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:35*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH

wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. *40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. *Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out
another way of taxing you. *That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

Where? *The price includes the taxes. *It's not like you have a choice. * I
just filled up at $2.59 yesterday. *You have forty cents in additional gas
taxes?



GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.

Certainly, though it depends on how they run the batteries. *AIUI, they're
very conservative in the charge cycle limits to extend battery life. *They may
be playing games with this for more range in cold weather.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. *But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. *Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. *It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.

Power companies are pretty efficient. *You won't come close and, of course,
their fuel costs are a lot lower.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes in Chicago that is about the amount of the taxes close to .50.

Illinois (plus federal) highway fuel tax is $.545/gal where I pay (Alabama)
$.387/gal, so that's a bit over a third of the difference. Where is the other
60%?

On Nov 14, 3:37*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
Biggest trouble with these is their 40 mph range, tin can safety, and slow
speeds. *Some electric cars go faster and farther, up to 1,000 miles, but
they haven't been able to figure out how to make that long of an extension
cord yet.

If we all were driving them, it would be a different thing. *But I see
people driving around in these tin cans with normal sized cars, and just
hope they have their wills made out. *Even a VW Beetle would be able to push
one around.

Just me. *I'll keep my Ram 2500 diesel.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

==
And I'll keep my cheapo Dodge Grand Caravan before I'll blow big
dollars for that limited range "experimental" Volt. It might have a
place but it sure won't be up here in Canada. Its too damned cold for
practical use unless they put in one humongous battery and make it a
one person car.
==