Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

TIA

RickH wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

220 volts times 16
amps = 3520 watts or 3.52 killowatthour. Multiply by 15¢/kwhr =
52.8¢/hour. It looks like $2.64 for 5 hours.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH
wrote:

Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out
another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

On Nov 13, 5:35*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH

wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. *40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. *Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out
another way of taxing you. *That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.

On 11/13/2010 9:22 PM, RickH wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:35 pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH

wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out
another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.



IMHO, right now, plug-in electrics are in the stage of 'if you have to
ask, you can't afford it'. Let the rich yuppies buy them for the first
five years, and pay for the ramp-up and beta testing. Early Adopters
always end up paying twice what the normal person a few years later
pays. We are just now getting toward end-of-design-lifespan on the Gen I
Hybrid cars, and I have to wonder if the cratering sales of those is
related to real-world promises not kept about range and durability, or
simply to the sky-high costs to play.

--
aem sends...

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
On 11/13/2010 9:22 PM, RickH wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:35 pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH

wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures
out
another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the initial
cost.

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.



IMHO, right now, plug-in electrics are in the stage of 'if you have to
ask, you can't afford it'. Let the rich yuppies buy them for the first
five years, and pay for the ramp-up and beta testing. Early Adopters
always end up paying twice what the normal person a few years later pays.
We are just now getting toward end-of-design-lifespan on the Gen I Hybrid
cars, and I have to wonder if the cratering sales of those is related to
real-world promises not kept about range and durability, or simply to the
sky-high costs to play.

--
aem sends...


I'm not entirely sure of the message you're trying to convey but hybrid
sales in Austin TX are as brisk as ever. We have almost 50k on our 2005
Prius and it's a dependable car that gets amazing gas mileage. The cost of
it was about the same as a Camry. Not one problem. The thing is built solid.

I was skeptical when we bought it but my wife really wanted it and it turned
out to be a very good decision so far. I'm a big believer in not buying the
"new model" but the Prius had been around for a few years when we got ours.
On the Volt I think I'd wait a few years. Plus, I hear they cost much more
than a Prius.

Jim

On 11/13/2010 10:55 PM, JimT wrote:
(snip)


I'm not entirely sure of the message you're trying to convey but hybrid
sales in Austin TX are as brisk as ever. We have almost 50k on our 2005
Prius and it's a dependable car that gets amazing gas mileage. The cost
of it was about the same as a Camry. Not one problem. The thing is built
solid.

I was skeptical when we bought it but my wife really wanted it and it
turned out to be a very good decision so far. I'm a big believer in not
buying the "new model" but the Prius had been around for a few years
when we got ours. On the Volt I think I'd wait a few years. Plus, I hear
they cost much more than a Prius.

Jim

50k should be maybe 1/4 through the design lifespan of a car. If it is
still running fine at 200k, and still has the original battery pack,
then the car may be interesting. For those of us who are cheap SOBs
and/or live lower on the food chain, brand new cars are not an option.
(I never understood people who calmly accept ALWAYS having a car
payment. Pay one off, and immediately buy another one. If I can't write
a check for a car, I don't buy it.)

As to Hybrid sales tanking- I'm just going by what the business sections
in the Detroit newspapers say- I have no way to personally verify. I
certainly don't see many on the road here in SW MI.
--
aem sends...

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 18:22:49 -0800 (PST), RickH
wrote:

On Nov 13, 5:35*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH

wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. *40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. *Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out
another way of taxing you. *That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

Where? The price includes the taxes. It's not like you have a choice. I
just filled up at $2.59 yesterday. You have forty cents in additional gas
taxes?

GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.

Certainly, though it depends on how they run the batteries. AIUI, they're
very conservative in the charge cycle limits to extend battery life. They may
be playing games with this for more range in cold weather.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.

Power companies are pretty efficient. You won't come close and, of course,
their fuel costs are a lot lower.

On Nov 13, 10:26*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 18:22:49 -0800 (PST), RickH





wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:35*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH

wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. *40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. *Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out
another way of taxing you. *That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

Where? *The price includes the taxes. *It's not like you have a choice. * I
just filled up at $2.59 yesterday. *You have forty cents in additional gas
taxes?



GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.

Certainly, though it depends on how they run the batteries. *AIUI, they're
very conservative in the charge cycle limits to extend battery life. *They may
be playing games with this for more range in cold weather.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. *But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. *Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. *It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.

Power companies are pretty efficient. *You won't come close and, of course,
their fuel costs are a lot lower.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes in Chicago that is about the amount of the taxes close to .50.

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 12:24:39 -0800 (PST), RickH
wrote:

On Nov 13, 10:26*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 18:22:49 -0800 (PST), RickH





wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:35*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH

wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

Your gas is expensive.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. *40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. *Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out
another way of taxing you. *That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

Where? *The price includes the taxes. *It's not like you have a choice. * I
just filled up at $2.59 yesterday. *You have forty cents in additional gas
taxes?



GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature
would play a large role.

Certainly, though it depends on how they run the batteries. *AIUI, they're
very conservative in the charge cycle limits to extend battery life. *They may
be playing games with this for more range in cold weather.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. *But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. *Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. *It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from
mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to
batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each
energy modality change step.

Power companies are pretty efficient. *You won't come close and, of course,
their fuel costs are a lot lower.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes in Chicago that is about the amount of the taxes close to .50.

Illinois (plus federal) highway fuel tax is $.545/gal where I pay (Alabama)
$.387/gal, so that's a bit over a third of the difference. Where is the other
60%?

RickH wrote:
....

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be
re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it
is saving. But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64,
thats not too bad. Basically you are getting the energy output of a
gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of
electrons. ...

That assumes full power draw that entire 5-hours; I'd reckon it doesn't
pull close to that for a significant fraction of that time.

So, that part's an overestimate of cost but US nominal voltages are
120/240V so that using 220V is underestimating so it probably about
balances out...

--

wrote

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures
out
another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the initial
cost.


I drive about 22,000 miles per year so potential savings are $660 a year.
The "premium" over a comparable sized car is at least $12,000. I'll break
even after only 18 years.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state
figures out
another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the
initial cost.


I drive about 22,000 miles per year so potential savings are $660 a
year. The "premium" over a comparable sized car is at least $12,000.
I'll break even after only 18 years.
I'd like to see the math on that one.
Stated another way, send me $12,000 and I'll gladly
return $660 per year for 18 years. Break even...right?

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 23:39:00 -0800, mike wrote Re
Help me figure the cost to charge a Chevy Volt in my town?:

I drive about 22,000 miles per year so potential savings are $660 a
year. The "premium" over a comparable sized car is at least $12,000.
I'll break even after only 18 years.
I'd like to see the math on that one.
Stated another way, send me $12,000 and I'll gladly
return $660 per year for 18 years. Break even...right?

Well, 12000/660 = 18.182 so he's assuming a discount rate of about 0%
which is correct for the economy the Fed has set up (and which will
lead to inflation and another speculative bubble).
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

"mike" wrote in message
...
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures
out
another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the initial
cost.


I drive about 22,000 miles per year so potential savings are $660 a year.
The "premium" over a comparable sized car is at least $12,000. I'll
break even after only 18 years.
I'd like to see the math on that one.
Stated another way, send me $12,000 and I'll gladly
return $660 per year for 18 years. Break even...right?

They are just raw numbers. You'd also have to factor in three battery packs
in that time adding another $9000 or 13 more years and that means two more
battery packs for $6000 or another ten years.

In any case, you know what I was alluding to.

Biggest trouble with these is their 40 mph range, tin can safety, and slow
speeds. Some electric cars go faster and farther, up to 1,000 miles, but
they haven't been able to figure out how to make that long of an extension
cord yet.

If we all were driving them, it would be a different thing. But I see
people driving around in these tin cans with normal sized cars, and just
hope they have their wills made out. Even a VW Beetle would be able to push
one around.

Just me. I'll keep my Ram 2500 diesel.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Nov 14, 3:37*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
Biggest trouble with these is their 40 mph range, tin can safety, and slow
speeds. *Some electric cars go faster and farther, up to 1,000 miles, but
they haven't been able to figure out how to make that long of an extension
cord yet.

If we all were driving them, it would be a different thing. *But I see
people driving around in these tin cans with normal sized cars, and just
hope they have their wills made out. *Even a VW Beetle would be able to push
one around.

Just me. *I'll keep my Ram 2500 diesel.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

==
And I'll keep my cheapo Dodge Grand Caravan before I'll blow big
dollars for that limited range "experimental" Volt. It might have a
place but it sure won't be up here in Canada. Its too damned cold for
practical use unless they put in one humongous battery and make it a
one person car.
==

On 11/13/2010 6:35 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH
wrote:

A few notes from GM... No argument with your figures.

http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/29/latest...larifications/

Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

Note that the engine will kick in before it gets at 30%. Under normal
conditions the battery will never need more than 80% charge, or 12.8kWHr
+ conversion losses

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

$.066

Chevy claims about 200WHr/mile. That would be about .03 + charging
losses of about 10%, I think. About $0.033.

What real life actually is, is unknown. They claim about 50mpg
running on the internal engine, so an effective mpg of almost 100mpg at
$3/gas seems withing striking range.

Jeff

RickH wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.


What difference could the cost possibly make; it's for the children.

Plus the smug factor.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

RickH wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.


What difference could the cost possibly make; it's for the children.

Plus the smug factor.

They're commuter cars, anyway. One should charge them at work rather
than at home.

Smitty Two wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

RickH wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.


What difference could the cost possibly make; it's for the children.

Plus the smug factor.

They're commuter cars, anyway. One should charge them at work rather
than at home.

There would have to be enough outlets available all across the parking
lot,or electric-only spaces,most likely the latter.
also,who pays for the charge?

Vandals could also unplug your car on you while you're at work.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:

Smitty Two wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

RickH wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.


What difference could the cost possibly make; it's for the children.

Plus the smug factor.

They're commuter cars, anyway. One should charge them at work rather
than at home.

There would have to be enough outlets available all across the parking
lot,or electric-only spaces,most likely the latter.
also,who pays for the charge?

Vandals could also unplug your car on you while you're at work.

Uh, I was joking, Jim, but a big company constructing new facilities
might do well to outfit it with a fair number of charging stations, and
offer the electricity as a fringe benefit to anyone wanting to take
advantage of it.

Smitty Two wrote in
news
In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:

Smitty Two wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

They're commuter cars, anyway. One should charge them at work
rather than at home.

There would have to be enough outlets available all across the
parking lot,or electric-only spaces,most likely the latter.
also,who pays for the charge?

Vandals could also unplug your car on you while you're at work.

Uh, I was joking, Jim, but a big company constructing new facilities
might do well to outfit it with a fair number of charging stations,
and offer the electricity as a fringe benefit to anyone wanting to
take advantage of it.


then you'll get electricity theives who hook up at night to power their
RVs... B-)

HMM,mobile pot growing semi-trucks? mark them as ordinary shipping truck
lines.....move around every night to elude discovery.... ;-)

seriously,
I'm surprised Nike or Microsoft hasn't done it yet.
They could include them at their executive reserved parking spots.

I could see a small company doing it,as they would not have to install so
many outlets or stations.

Did you catch the Autoweek episode yesterday on PBS,about electrics?
I was surprised to hear about a 480v charging station for rapid charges.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Save me the trouble of researching this elsewhere.

Is the Volt an electric car that happens to carry around an engine-
generator set? Or is it a plug-in hybrid?

Yes, I know technically former would also be a type of plug-in hybrid but
what I mean is whether the propulsion is all-electric and the engine ONLY
makes electricity when needed or whether when it's running it drives the
car with a mechanical connection into the transmission just as is the case
with the Ford and Toyota hybrid systems.

PS: I'm betting when all-electric cars like the Leaf hit the market some
people are going to be doing aftermarket modifications to add gen-sets to
them to extend the range and prevent strandings.

Steve Kraus wrote:
Save me the trouble of researching this elsewhere.

Is the Volt an electric car that happens to carry around an engine-
generator set? Or is it a plug-in hybrid?

A plug in hybrid from what I understand. I guess GM was fudging
on this issue a bit. The engine will directly drive the wheels at times.

On Nov 13, 5:33*pm, RickH wrote:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. *40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. *Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

TIA
You are asking in the Wrong group....with the advise you recieve here
you can not only lose your arguement at work but you can lose your
soul as well.

Patecumseh

In ,
RickH typed:
Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work
Monday morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220
volt branch drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will
cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all
electric drive) should tell me how much money per mile it
will cost to use up that electricity (or coal in my area)
as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on
all gas from the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly
(probably overrated) 33 MPG. So I can figure out that the
dollars per mile running on gas will be approx 10 cents a
mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on
a per mile basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40
miles is being too kind considering that in cold weather GM
says you may only get 25 miles out of the charge. Or even
lose half the charge while you sit in work with the car
sub-freezing outside.

TIA

I see a couple half way reasonable not very good responses so far, so I
won't go there. If you want true $/mile though, you also have to factor in
the cost of battery replacements every x years, whatever it says it is; I
forget now but it's expensive. Also, the batteries should ALL be replaced at
once or you have going-bad batteries draining down the good batteries. It's
supposely a lot cheaper in the long run to change them all at once and not
just the "bad" batteries for those reasons.
With those factored in, then you get a much truer estimate of cost per
mile.
I was almost ready to buy a Volt until I discovered that it might not
make it the daily 16 miles round trip on the coldest winter days. It might
have to be plugged in for the 8 to 10 hours it's parked out in the cold. Not
something an employer would agree to.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:33:01 -0800 (PST), RickH
wrote:

Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday
morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch
drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric
drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up
that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from
the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG.
So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be
approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile
basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind
considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out
of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work
with the car sub-freezing outside.

TIA

As stated previously pure electric costs are $.066 per mile.

From a cost standpoint the equivalent MPG of this $.066 per mile
is.....45.5 MPG