On Sun, 06 May 2012 14:42:49 -0700, wrote:

No way I'd be paying $$$ for algaecide and $$$ for shock. I put 5
gallons of 12% liquid chlorine into a 48,000 gallon

I agree with you that I likely wasted my money on algecide and shock.

From now on, it's liquid chlorine (and lots of it) for me!

Here's a picture taken this morning. I'm almost done pumping and
siphoning out the green water from the deep end!
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8204351.jpg

On Sun, 06 May 2012 21:28:30 +0000, Arklin K. wrote:

I can't seem to understand HOW these things remove, even taking into
account the special tool and the fact they're reverse threaded.

I finally figured it out!
http://picturepush.com/public/8204328

The trick is to NOT set the tool too deeply into the popup head when
turning clockwise to remove (yes, clockwise).

When I set the tool deeply, it broke the tool.

When I set the tool shallow - it twisted the pop-up head the 1/8 turn
that releases it from the pool! Lesson learned!
http://picturepush.com/public/8204315

On Sun, 06 May 2012 20:26:16 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

When opening the pool, you might have to clear the filter multiple
times.

Yes. Understood. I will have to pressure wash it.

Plus, the debris canister gets filled to the brim with leaves and stuff
so it has to be dumped often.

Basically, the pool is designed with a VERY SHARP deep end. Then the
dozen popup heads push the debris toward this deep end where it can't get
out.

Then the filter pulls it out into the debris canister and then on to the
filter, and then back to the pool.

Here's a picture of the pool empty showing the shape. You can see the
popup heads in the middle of the bottom of the pool:
http://picturepush.com/public/8204345

On Sat, 05 May 2012 18:02:01 -0500, gonjah wrote:
I dunno, but out of curiosity, did you check the hardness regularly
before you drained it? I'd be concerned it's the plaster.

I think I'm getting closer to figuring it out.

Today I pressure washed the pool (water only).

At one point, I deliberately stayed in one spot. Guess what?

The pool plaster turned blue!
http://picturepush.com/public/8204310

That implies the white stuff is on top of the blue stuff. If that's the
case, then I need to figure out what the white stuff is.

Probably Calcium - but I'm just guessing. If it is calcium (it feels like
sand), then I 'guess' the acid wash (muriatic acid) is what gets rid of
that Calcium.

Is that correct?

On 5/6/2012 11:02 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2012 20:26:16 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

When opening the pool, you might have to clear the filter multiple
times.
Yes. Understood. I will have to pressure wash it.

Plus, the debris canister gets filled to the brim with leaves and stuff
so it has to be dumped often.

Basically, the pool is designed with a VERY SHARP deep end. Then the
dozen popup heads push the debris toward this deep end where it can't get
out.

Then the filter pulls it out into the debris canister and then on to the
filter, and then back to the pool.

Here's a picture of the pool empty showing the shape. You can see the
popup heads in the middle of the bottom of the pool:
http://picturepush.com/public/8204345


The idea is bizarre. I'll stick with my Polaris. Taking care of a pool
is really not that difficult. I think the old KISS rule applies here.

On Mon, 07 May 2012 03:59:41 +0000, Arklin K. wrote:

I can't seem to understand HOW these things remove, even taking into
account the special tool and the fact they're reverse threaded.

I finally figured it out!

Thanks everyone for your support!

You give me the courage to keep going, even in the face of adversity.

Each hint moves me closer to the solution.

This is a great USENET newsgroup!

On Sun, 06 May 2012 23:07:15 -0500, gonjah wrote:

The idea is bizarre. I'll stick with my Polaris. Taking care of a pool
is really not that difficult. I think the old KISS rule applies here.

I agree with you! But it's too late for me. There is no vacuum attachment
anywhere, so the only vacuum that would work would be a wholly self
contained one.

BTW, there 'is' an unused port that goes from the middle of the pool to
the pump area. It is capped off but I guess I 'could' put a pump there
(my fourth) and it would then act as a vacuum. But it would have to have
its own filter because there's already a filter loop.

Weird. Very weird. It took me a while to figure it out because everything
people told me didn't make sense when I had tested it (e.g., to use the
skimmers as a vacuum).

On 5/6/2012 11:05 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Sat, 05 May 2012 18:02:01 -0500, gonjah wrote:
I dunno, but out of curiosity, did you check the hardness regularly
before you drained it? I'd be concerned it's the plaster.
I think I'm getting closer to figuring it out.

Today I pressure washed the pool (water only).

At one point, I deliberately stayed in one spot. Guess what?

The pool plaster turned blue!
http://picturepush.com/public/8204310

Looks like some kind of coating.


That implies the white stuff is on top of the blue stuff. If that's the
case, then I need to figure out what the white stuff is.

Probably Calcium - but I'm just guessing. If it is calcium (it feels like
sand), then I 'guess' the acid wash (muriatic acid) is what gets rid of
that Calcium.

Is that correct?

I don't know. Monday will probably bring out more ideas.

On 5/6/2012 11:14 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2012 23:07:15 -0500, gonjah wrote:

The idea is bizarre. I'll stick with my Polaris. Taking care of a pool
is really not that difficult. I think the old KISS rule applies here.
I agree with you! But it's too late for me. There is no vacuum attachment
anywhere, so the only vacuum that would work would be a wholly self
contained one.

You gotta go with what you got. Hopefully someone with this type of pool
experience will chime in on Monday.


BTW, there 'is' an unused port that goes from the middle of the pool to
the pump area. It is capped off but I guess I 'could' put a pump there
(my fourth) and it would then act as a vacuum. But it would have to have
its own filter because there's already a filter loop.

Weird. Very weird. It took me a while to figure it out because everything
people told me didn't make sense when I had tested it (e.g., to use the
skimmers as a vacuum).


I'd think there is a vacuum attachment somewhere already.

On Sun, 06 May 2012 23:14:29 -0500, gonjah wrote:

The pool plaster turned blue!
http://picturepush.com/public/8204310
Looks like some kind of coating.

I'm beginning to think the pool was painted blue long ago.
Then, over time, the deposits of X (calcium?) built up.
The sides then turned, essentially, white.

Everywhere I kept the pressure hose, it turned darker blue ... so I think
it's the underlying paint that's blue.
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8204366.jpg

I guess the good news is that I can remove whatever the white stuff is.
Everyone is assuming calcium - so I just have to figure out how to remove
calcium scale in a pool.

If it's an acid wash, well, then that's that.

On Sun, 06 May 2012 23:19:15 -0500, gonjah wrote:

I'd think there is a vacuum attachment somewhere already.

Well, truth be told, there is ... sort of.

It's a real bear, but ... I read the Paramount PCC2000 documentation
really carefully - over and over and over again ... and I found out you
CAN attach a vacuum to the debris canister!

But, it's a bear! You have to fill the hose with water and then very very
quickly (before the water leaks out), you shove the hose into the bottom
of the debris canister - and - if you're lucky - you get vacuum.

But, it seems you slow down the intake of water so the filter pump almost
goes dry - with huge bubbles of caviation or whatever in the pump basket.

So you're constantly going back and forth to the pump to check that it's
not dry while you're vacuuming with the hose that keeps popping out of
the debris canister and you have to prime the entire hose over and over
and over again.

At least that's what happens to me.

Here's where it says you can do hook a vacuum to the debris canister.
http://www.1paramount.com/products/canister

It works nice in the picture at that web page - but - in reality, it's a
real bear. My kids learn new swear words every time I try to get it going
as it's a 3-person operation ...
- Two people to prime the hose
- One person to vacuum
- And another to keep checking that the filter pump doesn't go dry

On 5/6/2012 11:28 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2012 23:19:15 -0500, gonjah wrote:

I'd think there is a vacuum attachment somewhere already.
Well, truth be told, there is ... sort of.

It's a real bear, but ... I read the Paramount PCC2000 documentation
really carefully - over and over and over again ... and I found out you
CAN attach a vacuum to the debris canister!

But, it's a bear! You have to fill the hose with water and then very very
quickly (before the water leaks out), you shove the hose into the bottom
of the debris canister - and - if you're lucky - you get vacuum.

But, it seems you slow down the intake of water so the filter pump almost
goes dry - with huge bubbles of caviation or whatever in the pump basket.

So you're constantly going back and forth to the pump to check that it's
not dry while you're vacuuming with the hose that keeps popping out of
the debris canister and you have to prime the entire hose over and over
and over again.

At least that's what happens to me.

Here's where it says you can do hook a vacuum to the debris canister.
http://www.1paramount.com/products/canister

It works nice in the picture at that web page - but - in reality, it's a
real bear. My kids learn new swear words every time I try to get it going
as it's a 3-person operation ...
- Two people to prime the hose
- One person to vacuum
- And another to keep checking that the filter pump doesn't go dry

I laughed but it's not funny. Vacuuming is a little tricky on my pool
too but nothing like that.

I've only done it about 3 times in 5 years because I have a polaris.

Just another datapoint, whatever this white scratchy stuff is, it's all
over the stainless steal light bezels ... so it's some kind of
'coating'...

If I opt to acid wash, do I leave the light bezels in the pool?
http://picturepush.com/public/8211506

On May 8, 12:04*am, "Arklin K." wrote:
Just another datapoint, whatever this white scratchy stuff is, it's all
over the stainless steal light bezels ... so it's some kind of
'coating'...

If I opt to acid wash, do I leave the light bezels in the pool?http://picturepush.com/public/8211506


Why don't you just ask some neighbors, friends, etc
and find a decent pool company to come out and
have a look? In some cases, being onsite and having
years of experience is worth it. Especially before you
screw up a major investment like a pool. Also, they
may be familiar with particular problems in that area
due to the specifics of the water, specific pool
construction materials, etc. The $125 or $250 for
a couple of evaluations could be the best money you
ever spend.

On 5/6/2012 7:19 AM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2012 10:10:15 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

Still can't figure out why you are draining the pool.
Fill it, turn on the filter. You're done.

It was a green swamp!
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8186117.jpg

I shocked it with $150 in chemicals and ran the two pumps (filter +
cleaner) for days until I finally gave up and figured I'd just replace
the water.

Once I drained it - I figured I'd clean it while I could for maintenance.

Yes, often it's cheaper to drain and refill then to pay for the
chemicals. Especially if you're buying chemicals at Leslie's.

Sometimes you have to drain and refill, i.e., you can't neutralize the
cyanuric acid and you can't reduce the total dissolved solids. There is
now a way to reduce the calcium though.

On 5/5/2012 10:02 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Sat, 05 May 2012 19:10:55 -0500, gonjah wrote:

Is the plaster rough like rough sandpaper?

Yes. Just like sandpaper. I'm assuming it could be calcium deposits but I
have no idea if that 'is' what it is.

Is there a chemical test?

If the calcium is too low in the water then it could be calcium deposits.

At some point you'll have to replaster the pool. For now, do an acid
wash and gentle pressure wash while it's empty. Be careful with a
pressure washer as you can end up doing more damage.

On 5/6/2012 7:19 AM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2012 10:10:15 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

Still can't figure out why you are draining the pool.
Fill it, turn on the filter. You're done.

It was a green swamp!
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8186117.jpg

My green swamp was greener!

http://nordicgroup.us/pool/img_0045.jpg (draining prior to
replastering). When we bought the house the pool was hopeless.

Between replastering the pool, new equipment, and re-doing the deck,
let's just say it cost more than my parent's first house. I think the
big problem was that the original pool was not being filtered properly
since the filter was far too small for this pool, which is 40K gallons.

http://nordicgroup.us/pool/img_0683.jpg

On 5/6/2012 1:52 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2012 08:10:28 -0700, wrote:
I hope some of those chemicals were for
other than shocking.

The blue algaecide was about $50
The chlorine shock was about $50 for a 24 pound box at Costco.
The bucket of 3" tablets was about $50 at Costco.
The muriatic acid was about $25 for a few gallons.
The clcium supplement was another $25 at Leslies.
And THEN there was the liquid chlorine from Home Depot at about $50 for
12 gallons.

You have got to stop this nonsense.

1. Do not use tablets
2. Do not buy chlorine at Home Depot
3. Do not buy chemicals at Leslie's.

You should only need three chemicals once the water is balanced, liquid
chlorine, muriatic acid, and phosphate remover. You could also use
non-chlorine based shock, which I know my Costco sells.

On 5/6/2012 1:48 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2012 10:34:36 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

How much is the water to refill the pool going to cost.

I don't know yet.

I can either fill it from the well (paying for electricity at California
rates of 45 cents / KW hour) or pay someone to deliver 38K gallons.

For anyone who has had water delivered ... how much is 38K gallons anyway
in cost?

I filled my pool (40K gallons) and it cost less than I thought it would.
It was probably around $140. I was scared that it would be $500.

You might want to test both the well water and the city water prior to
making a decision. See what the phosphate and hardness is of each. You
would not want to fill it with water that would then require a lot of
expensive chemicals.

On May 8, 11:29*am, SMS wrote:
On 5/6/2012 1:52 PM, Arklin K. wrote:

On Sun, 06 May 2012 08:10:28 -0700, wrote:
I hope some of those chemicals were for
other than shocking.

The blue algaecide was about $50
The chlorine shock was about $50 for a 24 pound box at Costco.
The bucket of 3" tablets was about $50 at Costco.
The muriatic acid was about $25 for a few gallons.
The clcium supplement was another $25 at Leslies.
And THEN there was the liquid chlorine from Home Depot at about $50 for
12 gallons.

You have got to stop this nonsense.

1. Do not use tablets
2. Do not buy chlorine at Home Depot
3. Do not buy chemicals at Leslie's.

You should only need three chemicals once the water is balanced, liquid
chlorine, muriatic acid, and phosphate remover. You could also use
non-chlorine based shock, which I know my Costco sells.

I have to disagree that he has to use only liquid chlorine.
There is nothing wrong with using trichlor tablets. I use
them without any problem and they are not only easier
but cheaper than liquid chlorine. Each has it's place if
used properly and you understand the pros and cons
of each.

On Tue, 8 May 2012 04:04:16 +0000 (UTC), "Arklin K."
wrote:

Just another datapoint, whatever this white scratchy stuff is, it's all
over the stainless steal light bezels ... so it's some kind of
'coating'...

If I opt to acid wash, do I leave the light bezels in the pool?
http://picturepush.com/public/8211506

Avoid acid on the metal. It can cause corrosion in some instances.

I'm really interested in what this "coating" is. Try to get it
identified. If is some 'protection' seal it is likely best to leave it
alone?

On 5/6/2012 3:52 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2012 08:10:28 -0700, wrote:
I hope some of those chemicals were for
other than shocking.
The blue algaecide was about $50
The chlorine shock was about $50 for a 24 pound box at Costco.
The bucket of 3" tablets was about $50 at Costco.
The muriatic acid was about $25 for a few gallons.
The clcium supplement was another $25 at Leslies.
And THEN there was the liquid chlorine from Home Depot at about $50 for
12 gallons.

I've rounded all the numbers for the easy math but that's about $250
already, of which more than half was put into the pool - so that's where
the rough number came from.

Not to mention 24/7 use of two 10-amp 240v 1.65HP pumps to clean the pool
(since one pump can't work alone - this pool requires two due to the
lousy self-cleaning system).

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8203391.jpg




$50/bucket? What size bucket? If it's the 40# one that's a decent price.
Last I checked it was much higher. I paid at least $75 at Costco.

$25 for a few gallons of muriatic acid (?) that sounds high.

Algaecide?..... LOL. What's that?

I've found Lowe's to be a cheap source for calcium chloride but you can
get it much cheaper online. I don't need much.

On Tue, 08 May 2012 08:32:40 -0700, SMS wrote:

You might want to test both the well water and the city water prior to
making a decision. See what the phosphate and hardness is of each.

Just had the tap water tested at Leslies.
pH 7.6
FAC 0 ppm Free Available Chlorine
TAC 0 ppm Total Available Chlorine
CH 200 ppm Calcium Hardness
CYA 0 ppm Cyanuric Acid
TA 150 ppm Total Alkalinity
TDS 400 ppm Total Dissolved Solids
Pho 100 ppb Phosphates

I have no access to city water testing nor to the water.

On Tue, 08 May 2012 08:29:40 -0700, SMS wrote:

1. Do not use tablets
2. Do not buy chlorine at Home Depot
3. Do not buy chemicals at Leslie's.

You should only need three chemicals once the water is balanced, liquid
chlorine, muriatic acid, and phosphate remover. You could also use
non-chlorine based shock, which I know my Costco sells.

Living in the Silicon Valley, as you do, I don't want to waste money on
chemicals (we're already paying through the nose for the sun).

I had my well water tested at Leslies just now and it came up with
phospates at 100 ppb (which is just about the pool limit) and total
alkalinity of 150 ppm which is higher than the suggested range and
calcium hardness of 200 ppm which is in the right range for a pool.

The pH was 7.6 but that will change with chemicals.

I bought a few gallons of the 29% muriatic acid (aka HCl) to scrub the
pool walls down with - and which will be used, as needed, in the pool.

Liquid chlorine I'll get from HASA in that store in Saratoga you
suggested (I have a coupon from the value pack as you suggested ...
normally I chuck that entire envelope - but I leafed through it at your
suggested and it was there as you noted). Also is on the web site.

I'm not sure how to lower phosphates though ...

On Tue, 08 May 2012 08:58:01 -0700, wrote:

There is nothing wrong with using trichlor tablets.

I think my regimen, once I fix the cracked Jandy valve and wash the pool
walls with the 29% muriatic acid I just bought at Leslies, will be to
take all your advice (although some is conflicting).

0. Replace & replumb the Jandy valve area and wash the pool walls with
HCl.

1. Fill the pool with the well water (high in calcium at 200ppm which is
good for the pool, high in total alkalinity at 150 ppm, and high in
phosphates at 100 ppb).

2. Shock with liquid HASA chlorine from the Sunnyvale-Saratoga road store
in Saratoga, California.

3. Fill the three floaters with trichlor from Costco or Home Depot (most
available chlorine per dollar).

I will need to adjust the pH as needed.
I'll need to figure out what can be done about phosphates.
I may have to bump the cyanuric acid level up to the bare minimum (it
will grow with the trichlor tablets so I don't want to put too much).


And, that should be about it for chemicals (I hope) other than weekly
liquid HASA chlorine shock.

On Tue, 08 May 2012 08:21:21 -0700, SMS wrote:

My green swamp was greener!
http://nordicgroup.us/pool/img_0045.jpg

Yuck. Yes. Mine was actually whitish blue after the $150 chemical
treatment ... but now it's bone dry!
http://picturepush.com/public/8216614

If you were able to bring yours back to life, should should I be able to.
In the picture below you see all the green soupy slop I was shoveling out
yesterday. Now it's finally clean of green.
http://picturepush.com/public/8216624

I will try to wash it with the 29% muriatic acid I bought from Leslies
today.

How does this sound as a wash procedure?
Note: I gleaned this from multiple DIYs - many of which conflict!

0. Wear protective clothing & equipment & go section by section.
- goggles, mask, gloves, boots, + respirator (acid fumes are heavier than
air & you're standing in a big tub)
- don't acid wash a vinyl or above-ground pool (only plaster in-ground
pools)
- acid actually removes a very thin layer of the plaster, which is about
1.5 inches thick to start with
- some suggest washing and brushing with trisodiumphosphate (TSP) before
doing an acid wash
- don't let the TSP stay for too long
1. Set up a submersible pump in the deep end to pump out the acidified
water
- neutralize water with 2 pounds of soda ash for every gallon of 14.5% HCl
2. Pour one gallon of water into a pump sprayer
- never add water to acid
3. Add one gallon of 14.5% muriatic acid (HCl) to that one gallon of
water (I wonder if vinegar will work?)
- half a gallon if 29% HCl (each article has a different ratio - and some
even use it full strength!)
- some suggest 8% to 10% final concentration of muriatic acid
- one gallon of 10% solution will cover about 100 sq ft
4. Some say to add dish detergent to the mix
- this DIY says dish detergent is reputed to lessen the fumes
5. From above, spray the walls with water from a garden hose
- start at the deep end and work your way to the shallow end
- one 5-foor-wide or 10-foot-wide section at a time
6. Pour the acid/water mixture down the side of the pool
- having a helper topside is recommended
7. Wait 30 seconds for the acid to do its work, and then scrub the walls
with an acid brush
- some say to wait for the bubbling to stop
- all say to not allow the acid to stay for too long
- an acid brush has a wood handle with heavy bristles
8. Rince thoroughly with water
- ensure the submersible pump is pumping the neutrilized water out of the
deep end to a safe location
- make sure the water path doesn't etch a channel in the pool (keep
rinsing the path)
- some suggest a scrubbing with TSP to neutralize the acid
9. You may need to repeat

On Tue, 08 May 2012 09:17:52 -0700, Oren wrote:

I'm really interested in what this "coating" is.

I'm pretty sure it's calcium-something.
Today I will drop a chunk into 29% muriatic acid (with glasses).
I'll see if it bubbles.

I'm not sure 'what' that tells me if it does - but someone suggested it
somewhere so that's what I'll do and report back.

On 5/8/2012 12:23 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2012 08:21:21 -0700, SMS wrote:

My green swamp was greener!
http://nordicgroup.us/pool/img_0045.jpg

Yuck. Yes. Mine was actually whitish blue after the $150 chemical
treatment ... but now it's bone dry!
http://picturepush.com/public/8216614

If you were able to bring yours back to life, should should I be able to.
In the picture below you see all the green soupy slop I was shoveling out
yesterday. Now it's finally clean of green.
http://picturepush.com/public/8216624

I will try to wash it with the 29% muriatic acid I bought from Leslies
today.

How does this sound as a wash procedure?
Note: I gleaned this from multiple DIYs - many of which conflict!

0. Wear protective clothing& equipment& go section by section.
- goggles, mask, gloves, boots, + respirator (acid fumes are heavier than
air& you're standing in a big tub)

i'd make sure the respirator is rated for acids, or i'd get a positive
pressure respirator. you need a source for clean pressurized air for
this, or you could wear scuba equipment.

the fumes will eat anything metal in the area, including things outside
the pool.

- don't acid wash a vinyl or above-ground pool (only plaster in-ground
pools)
- acid actually removes a very thin layer of the plaster, which is about
1.5 inches thick to start with

the plaster is very thin, maybe at most 1/4". underneath that is gunite
usually, which is a type of cement. gunite is also affected by acid, so
you don't want to eat through the plaster.

the acid will also leave the plaster a bit rougher, which will give
algae a place to start forming. that will make cleaning it later harder,
so you have to be more careful with your chemical balance.

- some suggest washing and brushing with trisodiumphosphate (TSP) before
doing an acid wash

only if it's dirty.

- don't let the TSP stay for too long
1. Set up a submersible pump in the deep end to pump out the acidified
water

neutralize it before pumping. make sure it's an acid safe pump, and note
where you're pumping it to.

- neutralize water with 2 pounds of soda ash for every gallon of 14.5% HCl
2. Pour one gallon of water into a pump sprayer
- never add water to acid

make sure it's an acid safe sprayer
3. Add one gallon of 14.5% muriatic acid (HCl) to that one gallon of
water (I wonder if vinegar will work?)
- half a gallon if 29% HCl (each article has a different ratio - and some
even use it full strength!)
- some suggest 8% to 10% final concentration of muriatic acid
- one gallon of 10% solution will cover about 100 sq ft
4. Some say to add dish detergent to the mix
- this DIY says dish detergent is reputed to lessen the fumes

i doubt this

5. From above, spray the walls with water from a garden hose
- start at the deep end and work your way to the shallow end
- one 5-foor-wide or 10-foot-wide section at a time
6. Pour the acid/water mixture down the side of the pool
- having a helper topside is recommended
7. Wait 30 seconds for the acid to do its work, and then scrub the walls
with an acid brush
- some say to wait for the bubbling to stop

the bubbling will stop when the calcium has neutralized all the acid,
and it's no longer acid.
- all say to not allow the acid to stay for too long
- an acid brush has a wood handle with heavy bristles
8. Rince thoroughly with water
- ensure the submersible pump is pumping the neutrilized water out of the
deep end to a safe location
- make sure the water path doesn't etch a channel in the pool (keep
rinsing the path)
- some suggest a scrubbing with TSP to neutralize the acid
9. You may need to repeat

btw: if you do this wrong, you can destroy the pool, and it can kill
you. some things are better left to people who have at least done this
once successfully before.

On Tue, 08 May 2012 14:20:48 -0500, gonjah wrote:

You can just test the tap water

Hmm... the well water 'is' the tap water.

On Tue, 08 May 2012 13:22:37 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

some things are better left to people who have at least done this once
successfully before.

Hmmm... maybe I will reconsider ...

On 5/8/2012 3:52 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2012 14:20:48 -0500, gonjah wrote:

You can just test the tap water
Hmm... the well water 'is' the tap water.


I see. I was thinking about the cost of refilling as opposed to cleaning
the mess you had. But that's sort of old news now.

On Tue, 08 May 2012 15:58:14 -0500, gonjah wrote:

I see. I was thinking about the cost of refilling as opposed to cleaning
the mess you had. But that's sort of old news now.

Oh. My mistake. I understand now.

I have no idea 'what' the trucked-in water will consist of ... so that's
what you were trying to get at. Sorry for being dense. My fault.

But I think I'll go with the well water anyway as it's good pool water
(high calcium).

I'll try to write with results later today.

On 5/8/2012 4:05 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2012 15:58:14 -0500, gonjah wrote:

I see. I was thinking about the cost of refilling as opposed to cleaning
the mess you had. But that's sort of old news now.
Oh. My mistake. I understand now.

I have no idea 'what' the trucked-in water will consist of ... so that's
what you were trying to get at. Sorry for being dense. My fault.

But I think I'll go with the well water anyway as it's good pool water
(high calcium).

I'll try to write with results later today.

No. I was talking about the well water. I'm sure you're doing the right
thing.

On 5/8/2012 8:58 AM, wrote:

I have to disagree that he has to use only liquid chlorine.
There is nothing wrong with using trichlor tablets. I use
them without any problem and they are not only easier
but cheaper than liquid chlorine. Each has it's place if
used properly and you understand the pros and cons
of each.

The problem with trichlor tablets is that they all contain cyanuric acid
(stabilizer). Cyanuric acid does not evaporate. With tablets, your
cyanuric acid level will rise over 100ppm after a couple of years of
using tablets, then you'll have to drain and refill because your
chlorine loses effectiveness (it is actually illegal to have too high of
a cyanuric acid level in many states). What they need is tablets that
contain no cyanuric acid to use once the stabilizer level is high enough.

I must have heard the pool water tester at Leslie's tell people that
their stabilizer level is way to high, and that they need to drain and
refill, at least 20 times; the customers initially don't believe it,
hoping for some chemical that will neutralize the cyanuric acid (there
isn't one that is sold anymore). Of course it was the salesperson at
Leslie's that encouraged them to use tablets in the first place because
they're so much more profitable than liquid chlorine.

When the customer asks what can be done to stop the cyanuric acid level
from going up after, they drain and refill, they are told to use liquid
chlorine, or to put in a salt system.

I'd prefer to fill my tablet feeder with tablets rather than lug liquid
chlorine around, but I've been through the hassle of trying to lower
cyanuric acid.

I think the reason that some people get away with continuously using
tri-chlor tablets is because they live in a climate where they partially
drain the pool in the winter. This doesn't apply in warm climates, where
you don't get rid a lot of the water each year.

Look at what the professional pool service companies use:

1) Liquid Chlorine
2) Liquid Muriatic Acid
3) Monopersulfate based shock
4) Phosphate remover

Sometimes 3 and 4 are combined in one product, i.e Orenda CV700, which
the pool store I go to buys in 275 gallon containers for their pool
service business.

If you avoid Tri-Chlor tablets, you should be able to go at least five
years between draining and refilling (eventually your TDS level will be
too high).

The other key thing to remember is that when you drain and refill your
pool, always start filling the pool from the bottom and work your way up.

On 5/8/2012 12:04 PM, Arklin K. wrote:

I had my well water tested at Leslies just now and it came up with
phospates at 100 ppb (which is just about the pool limit) and total
alkalinity of 150 ppm which is higher than the suggested range and
calcium hardness of200 ppm which is in the right range for a pool.

So you don't have piped in water where you live?

I'm not sure how to lower phosphates though ...

PR-1000 (online ordering) or Kemtek from OSH.

On 5/8/2012 12:23 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2012 08:21:21 -0700, SMS wrote:

My green swamp was greener!
http://nordicgroup.us/pool/img_0045.jpg

Yuck. Yes. Mine was actually whitish blue after the $150 chemical
treatment ... but now it's bone dry!
http://picturepush.com/public/8216614

If you were able to bring yours back to life, should should I be able to.

No, mine came back to life after replastering (Pebbletec actually). I
don't think it had ever been re-plastered or repainted since it was
installed in the 1970's. The plaster was flaking off in many places and
it was impossible to maintain. Like your pool, it was put in a time when
everyone wanted deep pools so they could have diving boards, probably in
the 1970's. I also had a ridiculous concrete deck that extended out
slightly over the pool.

I documented the project he http://nordicgroup.us/pool/.

I really like the pool cleaner I got that replaced the gawd-awful
Polaris. This one actually cleans up to the water line, scrubs the
walls, and doesn't need the pumps running. And I'm not constantly taking
it apart to fix something (had to replace one pulley last year). With
the Polaris it was constant trips to Leslie's for parts.

On Tue, 08 May 2012 16:11:32 -0700, SMS wrote:
I documented the project he http://nordicgroup.us/pool/.

Wow. That's one heck of a project. I especially like the penultimate
picture!

This one actually cleans up to the water line, scrubs the
walls, and doesn't need the pumps running.

How can the pool cleaner not need the pump running?

On Tue, 08 May 2012 15:57:21 -0700, SMS wrote:

1) Liquid Chlorine
2) Liquid Muriatic Acid
3) Monopersulfate based shock
4) Phosphate remover

Does anyone have a good recommendation for the phosphate remover?
My well water is already high in the phosphates according to a test today
at Leslies of the tap water (from my well).

On Tue, 08 May 2012 16:00:06 -0700, SMS wrote:

So you don't have piped in water where you live?

Nope. If that's your 'real' email address, I can mail to you where I am
so you'll understand. Think hills behind your house.


I'm not sure how to lower phosphates though ...
PR-1000 (online ordering) or Kemtek from OSH.

Ah. Got it!

Bad news!

I may have ruined a small section of the wall of my pool (I'm not sure).

I first chipped off the encrusted (calcium?) sandpaper coating off the
stainless steel bezel as shown below:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8217918.jpg

Then I dropped it into the clear 29% muriatic acid - it immediately
bubbled and turned yellow:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8217915.jpg

Assuming therefore the sandpapery coating was calcium, I ran a 5:1 test
on a small section of wall for about 30 seconds:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8217916.jpg

The results were smooth - but - gray (and definitely not blue!
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8217917.jpg

Is this what is 'supposed' to happen?