"Arklin K." writes:

Bad news!

I may have ruined a small section of the wall of my pool (I'm not sure).
....
Is this what is 'supposed' to happen?

Nope. Was it 2 days ago I said you should put the water back
in the pool?

You're not going to see any white stuff when the pool is full.

--
Dan Espen

On 5/8/2012 10:55 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
"Arklin writes:

Bad news!

I may have ruined a small section of the wall of my pool (I'm not sure).
...
Is this what is 'supposed' to happen?
Nope. Was it 2 days ago I said you should put the water back
in the pool?

You're not going to see any white stuff when the pool is full.


Ditto. Save up for a re-plaster but until then enjoy the pool.

On 5/8/2012 7:59 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2012 15:57:21 -0700, SMS wrote:

1) Liquid Chlorine
2) Liquid Muriatic Acid
3) Monopersulfate based shock
4) Phosphate remover

Does anyone have a good recommendation for the phosphate remover?
My well water is already high in the phosphates according to a test today
at Leslies of the tap water (from my well).

The short answer is Orenda PR-10000. Not available locally, you have to
order it.

http://www.stevethepoolman.com/PR-10000---1-Gallon
http://www.stevethepoolman.com/PR-10000---1-Quart

It's the most concentrated and the most cost-effective. 2nd most
cost-effective is the Kem-Tek they sell at OSH. Least cost-effective is
the Phos-Free sold at Leslie's.

Here is a spreadsheet I did on phosphate removers:
http://i49.tinypic.com/2v3hfe8.jpg

On 5/8/2012 8:03 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
Bad news!

I may have ruined a small section of the wall of my pool (I'm not sure).

I first chipped off the encrusted (calcium?) sandpaper coating off the
stainless steel bezel as shown below:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8217918.jpg

Then I dropped it into the clear 29% muriatic acid - it immediately
bubbled and turned yellow:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8217915.jpg

Assuming therefore the sandpapery coating was calcium, I ran a 5:1 test
on a small section of wall for about 30 seconds:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8217916.jpg

The results were smooth - but - gray (and definitely not blue!
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8217917.jpg

Is this what is 'supposed' to happen?

i told you yesterday pools are shot gunite (gray) with a very thin skim
layer of plaster (usually white) on top.

that could be either paint under the white film, or you ate all the
plaster off and are into the gunite.

On Wed, 09 May 2012 08:29:11 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

pools are shot gunite (gray) with a very thin skim layer of plaster
(usually white) on top.

that could be either paint under the white film, or you ate all the
plaster off and are into the gunite.

It's not gray paint - it's gray stuff. So I must have eaten all the
plaster away. Wow. That 29% (1:3 or so diluted) muriatic acid is strong!

On 5/8/2012 8:03 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
Bad news!

I may have ruined a small section of the wall of my pool (I'm not sure).

I first chipped off the encrusted (calcium?) sandpaper coating off the
stainless steel bezel as shown below:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8217918.jpg

Then I dropped it into the clear 29% muriatic acid - it immediately
bubbled and turned yellow:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8217915.jpg

Assuming therefore the sandpapery coating was calcium, I ran a 5:1 test
on a small section of wall for about 30 seconds:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8217916.jpg

The results were smooth - but - gray (and definitely not blue!
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8217917.jpg

Is this what is 'supposed' to happen?

I wonder when the last time your pool was re-plastered, if ever. I think
it must be quite an old pool since no one does 48K gallon pools that
deep anymore.

I would have someone come out and look at it and give an estimate for
acid washing and an estimate for re-plastering. Otherwise I would stop
experimenting and just fill the pool.

Read http://www.poolcenter.com/painted_pools.htm where they mention
"chalking."

Unfortunately, replastering in California is much more expensive than in
places like Texas or Florida. My brother in Florida paid about $2000 for
re-plastering with "Marcite." I think I was quoted $6000 for
re-plastering, but the Pebbletec we went with was much more. They go by
square feet.

The claim is that Pebbletec lasts much longer than a thin layer of
plaster. We'll see. It also looks a lot better. But it takes some
getting used to because it's a rougher feel on your feet.

http://azstarnet.com/lifestyles/home-and-garden/before-you-dive-in/article_fd88a2b6-1114-560f-96b6-05017230c499.html

On Wed, 09 May 2012 16:07:44 -0700, SMS wrote:

I wonder when the last time your pool was re-plastered, if ever. I think
it must be quite an old pool since no one does 48K gallon pools that
deep anymore.

Thanks for sticking with me.

The pool is only ten years old so it probably has never been replastered
or repainted.

I'm still so confused WHAT my pool is made out of.

What I see are three things:
a) Gray stuff, smooth, and in the small pits are mica crystals
b) Blue stuff, maybe it's paint ... maybe it's copper coatings from the
(dark blue) algaecide. Whatever it is, it's paper thin.
c) White sandy stuff ... this is probably calcium since it bubbled
greatly in the acid

The wierd thing is I don't see plaster anywhere (if plaster is defined as
white stuff).
A) Maybe the gray is the plaster? Or is it the gunnite itself? It seems
to be smooth to the edge of the tile whereas I expected a half inch of
plaster before hitting gunnite.
B) Maybe the blue is paint? Or is it a copper coating? I can't flake it
off, it's that thin.
C) The white is probably calcium as it scrapes off relatively easily.
Maybe it's dead algae but it bubbles in hydrocloric acid.

I think I'll open a separate thread, and add a pool-related newsgroup
(dunno any offhand though) as to what the pool is made out of.

Here are some closeups ...

1. This is the white sandy coating that bubbles in acid:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8229602.jpg

2. This is the blue thin coating (either paint or copper deposits?)
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8229613.jpg

3. And this is the gray underneath all that:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8229593.jpg

On 5/8/2012 7:57 PM, Arklin K. wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2012 16:11:32 -0700, SMS wrote:
I documented the project hehttp://nordicgroup.us/pool/.

Wow. That's one heck of a project. I especially like the penultimate
picture!

This one actually cleans up to the water line, scrubs the
walls, and doesn't need the pumps running.

How can the pool cleaner not need the pump running?

It's a self-contained robotic cleaner. A lot of different ones on the
market now. Be sure to get one that climbs the walls.

Last night I was at a gathering and was talking to my nephew who just
purchased a house with a pool and is struggling with it. Part of the
problem is that it came with a Polaris 380 sweep. A Polaris (other than
their new robotic cleaner) is not a pool vac, it catches leaves and
large pieces of stuff, but it passes dirt through the mesh bag and
suspends it in the water where it is supposed to be sucked through the
drain and skimmer and into the filter. It does not scrub the walls.

The self-contained robotic cleaners run off low-voltage DC via a cord,
and have their own vacuum bags. Kind of like a Roomba for a pool, but
corded.

They keep the pool much cleaner than pressure side sweep.

The one I have is an older version of this one:
http://www.backyardpoolsuperstore.com/Dolphin-Sprite_p_8735.html.

These have actually come down in price as more competitors have entered
the market. Hayward, Polaris, and Aquabot also sell them.

On 5/14/2012 10:51 AM, gonjah wrote:

My Polaris works well but it's not a magic genie. I think for the price,
and ease of use, it's well worth the cost. It might be because my pool
is only 10k though.

The Polaris was driving me nuts with repairs. I had to replace the pump
once, and there was always some piece breaking inside. I was an expert
at taking it apart to fix the drive system. I tried using the sand/silt
bag, which helped the cleaning somewhat since the sand no longer passed
straight through back into the pool, but they cost $25 each and they are
very fragile in terms of tears. Then I saw that other people had used a
nylon stocking instead of the ridiculously priced sand/silt bag.

I think the suction side cleaners like the Kreepy Krauly work good and
they are cheaper than the robotic cleaners because they don't have their
own motor.