wrote in message
...
clipped
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a
vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact
me
if you need further information.

Steve


We had short-term renters in our beach-area neighborhood in
Florida...great for college kids to gang up and drink for a week. It
was violation of local code, but was not enforced. Great way to ****
off the neighbors.

We're in a college town, one that's made the national news several times
because of the drunken riots kids through after winning a big game. The
landlord next to us got desperate and rented to kids who ended up having a
kegger and lighting a huge bonfire under a dried out tree that caught on
fire requiring 4 firetrucks and 6 police cars to respond at 2AM. That's
what I would like to avoid!

--
Bobby G.

"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:14:55 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote Re Bad Tenants:

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out?

In liberal cities/states like San Francisco, NYC, Chicago you can't
prevent them from trashing the place and living rent free. The answer
is as simple as that. Unless you have a lot of rental units so that
your "good" units can carry the "bad" ones for a couple of years, you
take a bad hit. I've seen it several times.

Bottom line: stay were you are until you can sell the house.

Sadly, both my wife and I are leaning toward that decision because we live
in an area where the tenant gets the benefit of all doubts in court.

--
Bobby G.

"George" wrote in message
...
On 2/1/2011 9:14 AM, Robert Green wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Sure, and you can turn on the evening entertainment and news program and
see houses burned to the ground.

I know it's a question of percentages but even removing all the newspapers
and TV court shows from the equation, just the experiences of my neighbors
tell me that renting in my area is more perilous than it is in other, less
tenant-friendly jurisdictions. Just how much so is a matter for
investigation.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

Not sure if that's an option, and don't want to be hit with a discrimination
suit if I turn one down.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I would say you are overthinking this. Millions of folks rent properties
without issues. Use common sense and rent to folks you can check out.

These are hard times. It makes people more desperate than they normally
might be. I just want to make sure I have all the information I need to
make a competent decision. If the thread wanders around a bit to the
absurd, then so be it. It wouldn't be Usenet if it didn't! (-:

--
Bobby G.

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"George" wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

I haven't run the issue to ground, but it seems like something the Feds
would do - screw ME for trying to keep my property in proper order and not
rented out to someone who obviously can't pay their rent without a
government handout. I think that's part of the problem. It's hard to
respect property that someone else is paying to rent for you.

--
Bobby G.

"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 12:24:11 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote Re Bad Tenants:


"George" wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Another good reason to avoid doing residential rentals. If you really
feel compelled to get into real estate do commercial.

We're residentially zoned, so that option is out, at least as far as this
house is concerned.

--
Bobby G.

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
On 2/1/2011 3:24 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Steve



Understood, but knowing a place welcomes section 8 drives away other
potential tenants. Most landlords don't TRY to get section 8 tenants
(unless they haven't been burned yet), but if the complex or houses are
starting to show their age, section 8 soon becomes their bread and butter.

Yes, that's true. It's odd, but the recipients of Section 8 welfare are both
tenants and landlords. The landlords couldn't rent without subsidies for
the tenants.

Standard disclaimer- not all section 8 tenants are bad. Some are merely
going through a rough patch, and don't throw wild parties, shack up with
drug dealers, and trash the place. An actual married couple is usually
pretty safe, if both have jobs.

We have a Section 8 rental (more like a Plan 9 from Outer Space rental!) in
our neighborhood that has weekly police visits, monthly social worker visits
and hourly visits from people at 4AM whom I believe are there to buy drugs.
The landlord had the place on the market for 8 months so he was willing to
take anything. Reposession was just a few months away for him.

--
Bobby G.

"ransley" wrote in message
...
On Feb 1, 8:14 am, "Robert Green" wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

What kind of area is it, what are the people like. I rent apartments
everyday, your area determines what you get. But I demand married
couples, both work, no smoking and refrences. Houses are hard to rent
because of cost.

Working class, small 2 bedroom houses with off-street parking. I agree with
your requirements for prospective tenants. These houses tend to rent
because they are small. The Section 8 rental is getting $2K a month and my
neighbor gets $800 a month for her nicely finished basement with their own
side entrance.

--
Bobby G.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Robert Green wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling
in this down market while we rent in some of the places we're
thinking of retiring to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific
Heights" where a bad tenant who knows all the tricks of staying in a
place without paying rent, haunt us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had
managed to stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by
using a loophole that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8
housing if there are code violations. Every time he was about to get
evicted, he just broke something to forestall the eviction process,
eventually plugging all the sinks with rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How do you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their
way out? I know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly
beforehand, but even so, people can have no record of evil behavior
but still turn evil. While I'd probably NOT rent to any Section 8
tenants, I could easily see someone losing their job or some other
such tragedy and so decide they wanted to live in my house rent-free
for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

Bummer.

I rented out my house to the Consul General of the Dominican Republic. One
Saturday, I get a call at 7:00 a.m.

"Mr Spitwheetle?"
"Um, yes."
"This is Senora Pedro. I wanted to tell you the fire, she is out."
"Fire?"
"Si, but there was mucho smoke."
"Smoke?"
"And der is zee hole in zee roof."
"HOLE?"
"We appreciate it fixed soon like."
"IN THE ROOF?!"
"Gracias. Good bye."
(click)
....

****ers kept a vat of boiling oil on the stove in case they wanted a tasty
snack - like a banana. The crap caught fire and the exhaust fan
flame-throwered it to the roof!

I suppose the only worse thing is to find out, like someone did in Queens,
that Sammy the Bull Gravano had set up two kiddie pools in the living room
where they dismembered their murder victims with chain saws.

Oh well. I eventually sold the house to a hippie who decided to commit
suicide via the gas log-lighter and a garden hose snaked to the bedroom.
He
woke up a few hours later and decided to light a joint.

-----
Anyway...

I see ads on Craigslist for people moving out of a home the don't or no
longer own selling everything that can be removed with a screwdriver:
doors,
toilets, dishwasher, etc.

Thank you for feeding my ever growing paranoia!

If the eviction procedures are too cumbersome or tenant-friendly in your
jurisdiction, you may have to resort to extra-legal or quasi-legal
maneuvers.

* Are any of the utilities in your name? If so dig up the water service
(or
whatever) under the guise of "enhancing" or "replacing" it. Take your
time.
* Repaint the kitchen while they're there. Repaint the bedroom. Leave the
drop-cloths at home.
* Wait until they've gone for the day (weekend would be better). Unlock
the
door. Put an ad on CL (using a beard to post it from the local library -
they have cameras): "Had to leave the state 'cause my ex-wife is after me.
Everything in the house if free! 1111 Main Street. First come, first
serve!"
* Send 'em a gift for being such nice tenants. A fire truck at 3:00 a.m.
is
appropriate. Use a disposable cell phone (like the other terrorists).
* Can you collect (or buy) a LOT of field mice?
* Can you squirt Lock-Tite in the door locks? (Goddamn neighborhood kids,
always pranking somebody!)

The above should get you started. If you need more suggestions, don't
hesitate to ask.

Well, I am not sure I want to infest my own house with field mice or ruin my
own locks, but I guess I would be changing them anyway when they moved out,
got burned out, smoked out, bugged out or whatever. But there have been
some interesting suggestions on driving on bad tenants so keep thinking Bub,
that's what you're good at! (-:

--
Bobby G.

"Colbyt" wrote in message
m...

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.



I don't do section 8.

Some have suggested that's not legal. Can you shed any light on how you
refuse Section 8 and whether it's legal to do so?

If they don't pay their rent it takes 23 days to get
them out. If they are paying and I don't want them there anymore it takes
33 days to get them out.

That's how it's supposed to work, but this A88hole on the People's Court
apparently found that if the unit is not in good repair (i.e., he simply
broke out a window) that the eviction process is put on hold until the
repairs are made.

Here you simply serve them with a notice to pay or vacate or a notice to
vacate. The judge does the rest. There are no valid reasons for not
paying
your rent. The judge doesn't even listen to the excuses.

Colbyt

If I am not mistaken, you live in Lexington KY where the judges are probably
a tad more sympathetic to landlords then they are here. The more I
research, the less I find I like about being a landlord, at least in
suburban MD.

--
Bobby G.

"Michael B" wrote in message
...
On Feb 1, 9:14 am, "Robert Green" wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

As a code enforcement officer, I suggest to owners that the
rental contract identify them (the owner or representative) as
the responsible party for the replacement of the HVAC filter.
And that they be very clear about that and the other elements
of the contract at rental time.

Yes, it seems that a lot of trouble in rentals comes from not understanding
responsibilities under the lease.

On a certain day of the month, at a specific time, the filter will
be changed by the owner. (15th of the month, at 7PM).
Tenants can be there if they want. And even though checking
the smoke detector function is a tenant responsibility, I suggest
doing that at the same time as the filter, and being very obvious
about the monthly documentation.

That sounds like a very smart thing to do. Don't the tenants complain?
Some people are obessive about their privacy.

Satisfies Landlord-Tenant law, and puts the owner/representative
in the unit for a condition awareness once a month.

I would venture a guess that a monthly "look-see" is the best way to keep
things from going off the rails.

And if a prospective tenant balks at the very idea of you doing it
instead of them (I have seen incredibly dirty filters), you can count
that you may have just dodged that one.

Yes, I suspect that would be true.

Also, be very wary of people that are ready/willing/having to
move in months of bad weather.
And even if you don't live there, you are still a neighbor. Several
owners in my assignment area have a small sign, like twice the
size of a business card, on the storm door facing out. That says
"If anyone sees problems with grass, trash, or vehicles at this
property, call Property Manager at........." If a neighbor knows
that the owner is able to be contacted instead of trying to ignore
all issues but collecting the rent, my agency is less likely to be
getting the complaint.

That, too, sounds like an excellent idea. Thanks!

--
Bobby G.

"willshak" wrote in message
news
Robert Green wrote the following:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.


I've read all the other responses.
The one thing I would recommend is to get in touch with a real estate
rental agency.
Let them do the selection and take care of the rent collection.
They take a percentage of the monthly rent that they set, so the higher
the rent, the greater the percentage.
You won't have to check on the house occasionally since the agent will
do that too.
Besides, they are up on the laws.

That's precisely why I might just have a management company handle the first
year's rental. Thanks!

--
Bobby G.

On 2/1/2011 5:12 PM, Caesar Romano wrote:
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 12:24:11 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote Re Bad Tenants:


wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Another good reason to avoid doing residential rentals. If you really
feel compelled to get into real estate do commercial.

Landlords have no legal obligation to accept Section 8 tenants.

On 2/2/2011 4:11 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"Jeff wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

You can't do that. Don't tamper with electric or gas or water. I
like cutting off the cable idea though. Also, non paying tenants will
not move because of no heat or electric, they will call the housing
authority.

Yes, but they should be shooting themselves in the foot if the utility
company itself shut off the gas and power. Then the house might be
condemnable and the authorities would be responsible for getting them out.

Good luck with that. Put it in your lease that they have to maintain
utilities.

Generally tenants that are short on money will put you off and try to
pay the utilities instead. If they don't have money for utilities they
will be hard to get out as they are out of options. Some excel at house
jumping.

That's something I'll need to find out from the local authorities. What
happens if the tenants "go dark?" (or dork, for that matter!)



Don't let your tenants keep getting away with bad behaviour. If it
violates your terms of lease, throw them out sooner than later. Once you
cut them slack they will take advantage. Be nice, but very firm.

I suppose that's true. It's a job that might call for being more of a
hardass than I can be. I was once a renter and temporarily in some bad
financial straits. I tend to be too sympathetic to sob stories.

You don't have to be a hard ass. But the longer you let something slide,
the more trouble you will have. Don't get played. I've seen this happen
over and over. That doesn't mean you won't have trouble, just don't make
it easy or unavoidable.

You may wish to find some company to manage the property for you.
They know the ropes and since you will be far away, double so.

Yes, it certainly might be good to start with a management company for the
first year to see what the potential problems are and to learn the rental
ropes.

Get the best people in you can. Do that by making a nice place to live.

Jeff

--
Bobby G.

On 2/2/2011 5:04 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 2/1/2011 3:24 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Steve



Understood, but knowing a place welcomes section 8 drives away other
potential tenants. Most landlords don't TRY to get section 8 tenants
(unless they haven't been burned yet), but if the complex or houses are
starting to show their age, section 8 soon becomes their bread and butter.

Yes, that's true. It's odd, but the recipients of Section 8 welfare are both
tenants and landlords. The landlords couldn't rent without subsidies for
the tenants.

Standard disclaimer- not all section 8 tenants are bad. Some are merely
going through a rough patch, and don't throw wild parties, shack up with
drug dealers, and trash the place. An actual married couple is usually
pretty safe, if both have jobs.

We have a Section 8 rental (more like a Plan 9 from Outer Space rental!) in
our neighborhood that has weekly police visits, monthly social worker visits
and hourly visits from people at 4AM whom I believe are there to buy drugs.
The landlord had the place on the market for 8 months so he was willing to
take anything. Reposession was just a few months away for him.

--
Bobby G.



They have a seldom-used ordinance around here, that after the 3rd drug
or 'disorderly house' bust, the city can padlock the place for a year.
Very questionable constitutionality, but they have done it a few times.
I hear you about the conga-lines of 5-minute visitors. That is why I
moved out of my first apartment in this town. I told the manager why in
no uncertain terms, and that I was tired of seeing cop cars almost every
night. Yes, this is shortly after the complex was opened to section 8.
She said she understood. Place finally got so bad they built a fence and
electric gates around it, and now call themselves a gated community, but
under the fresh siding, the buildings are still pits.

--
aem sends...

wrote in message
m...
On 2/2/2011 9:28 AM, willshak wrote:
Robert Green wrote the following:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had
managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there
are code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but
even so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted
to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.


I've read all the other responses.
The one thing I would recommend is to get in touch with a real estate
rental agency.
Let them do the selection and take care of the rent collection.
They take a percentage of the monthly rent that they set, so the higher
the rent, the greater the percentage.
You won't have to check on the house occasionally since the agent will
do that too.
Besides, they are up on the laws.


In Florida, realtors are starving...in our condo, they would rent to
ANYONE. The one anyone was an alcoholic woman, with teen daughter, who
brought home homeless people to drink with. She trashed a very nice
condo..no money to sue her for.

All I can say that as bad as the crash was here, I am sure glad I don't live
in Florida. If global climate change theorists are right, Florida is due
for death by hurricane any season now. The Feds will eventually have to
insure Floridians because no insurer will want to take the risk if there are
lots of Katrina and Andrew size storms in your future. I also can't see
Fla. government surviving without changing the tax structure drastically.
IIRC, Florida ranked high on unfunded pension liabilities for state and
local gov't employees. Not that I am knocking your state, mind you, it just
bore the brunt of the recent meltdown because it used to be a place everyone
wanted to live. (-: In a spec bubble, the mightiest fall along with the
weakest. Times they are a changin'.

--
Bobby G.

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
On 2/2/2011 9:28 AM, willshak wrote:

stuff snipped

I've read all the other responses.
The one thing I would recommend is to get in touch with a real estate
rental agency.
Let them do the selection and take care of the rent collection.
They take a percentage of the monthly rent that they set, so the higher
the rent, the greater the percentage.
You won't have to check on the house occasionally since the agent will
do that too.
Besides, they are up on the laws.



Ask the percentage, before they start filling out the forms. Sometimes,
market-dictated rent minus their cut, doesn't leave enough to pay the
mortgage and insurance. All depends on how nice the house is, and how
short the local rental property supply is for people who don't want to
(or can't) buy their own place.

I've known a couple people that did it anyway, out of desperation, and
ended up selling the house cheaply a year later, because the place was
still costing them money. IMHO, if you can't rent it out for at least,
oh, 130% of your fixed expenses, you are better off selling and getting
the loss over with (assuming you are not so upside down it would wipe
you out, of course.)

Yep, it's certainly an interesting business proposition, full of so many
"what if's" that in the end, you just got to go with your gut. We're pretty
much at the point of deciding not to rent out the place and just to carry it
while we "live around" to see where we'll eventually land. I used to have
my heart set on California, but they're falling off a financial cliff into
an earthquake and a slo-mo replay of the Spanish-American war. Real estate
there seems to have actually bottomed out, at least according to the LA
Times, which is bottoming out itself.

--
Bobby G.

On 2/2/2011 4:48 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"Steve wrote in message
...

"Robert wrote in message
...
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

There's not really a hell of a lot you can do, and it depends on the
locality, so you may be better or worse.

If a person even has one piece of mail addressed to them at an address,
they
have proof of legal tenancy even if they are not on the lease.

Yes, in watching these cases play out on TV, it's clear that once a tenancy
has been established, even tenuously, all sorts of "protections" for the
tenant come into play.

It then
becomes a legal matter, and that process is lengthy and costly. I own
vacation rentals, and the laws are a little better, but not too much.
What
I did with one was to pull the AC breaker, claiming it was inoperative and
that I didn't have the money to pay to have it fixed, and they left
without
trashing the place. We get $1,000 deposit, so have a little leverage.

Yes, I would assume the thought of losing $1,000 makes even the most
determined house trasher stop and think whether it's worth it. The AC
breaker idea is an interesting one, and since it's outside the house, I
wouldn't have to enter to deactivate it. I'll keep that in mind.

A
house has to be habitable, and that is the responsibility of the owner,
but
who knows how long repairs take. It is purely a civil matter, so the
police
won't do anything. And if they take you to court because there isn't any
water or heat, you can counter that they aren't paying rent so you have
the
money to fix it. And if they aren't paying rent, what are you going to
lose? If the house is nice, in a nice neighborhood, or close to business
or
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a
vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact me
if you need further information.

It's in Maryland, just outside of DC, so there's potential for vacation
rentals as it's close to the Metrorail. Unfortunately, from what I've been
able to tell from the County website, they are oriented toward tenant, not
landlord, protection. It may turn out that the political climate is just so
unfavorable to landlords that we'll either get a house sitter or leave it
empty as we travel.

--
Bobby G.



Talk to your insurance company before you leave it empty. A lot of
policies may not cover on an 'empty' (ie, longer than a 2 week vacation)
house.

--
aem sends...

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:

We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

Some random feedback, without having read the other responses: I am both
a tenant and a landlord, and the idea that the tenant/landlord
relationship must be adversarial is nonsense. Bad tenants are easy to
find, so are good ones. I'm a fantastic tenant, and I've got great
tenants. Nothing is on paper. Gentlemen don't need paper.

I agree. Nothing dictates it be anything but cordial and mutually
beneficial. I assume you live someplace where chivalry means something to
be able to operate without paper. I assure you, that's not here!

You here the nightmare stories, because those are the ones that are
supposedly noteworthy.

What is your financial situation? (a question for you to ponder, not
publicly answer) Around here, housesitting is common. Property owner
gets a hyper-responsible person living in and watching over the house,
and the sitter gets to pay his rent with something other than cash
money. If you don't need the money, it's better than letting the house
sit empty for extended periods.

We've been thinking about that and the only thing that scares me is that I
was a housesitter once upon a time and I wasn't particularly a responsible
young man although I could fake it enough to get the gig. I am afraid I
would be turning my house over to a younger version of me. (-:

Another option, if you live in a city that attracts tourists or
traveling businessmen, is the "vacation rental." Your place must be
immaculate, but you'll get motel suite rates for it, making a "month's
worth" of rent if you rent it out two weekends per month. You can
sub-contract the management, cleaning, etc. to people or agencies that
specialize in vacation rentals.

Yes - we're near enough to DC to make it attractive to tourists but that
kind of rental is usually best done by someone who's living near the area to
coordinate things. We wouldn't be.

Thanks for your input - it's something to consider if we ever decide to
become professional landlords.

--
Bobby G.

"DGDevin" wrote in message
m...


"Robert Green" wrote in message
...

We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Maybe talk to some property management companies and ask about their
record
of dealing with problem tenants. Using such a company will leave you with
a
smaller return on the property, but if they know what they're doing the
security might be worth it. You could also look at putting the property
under the control of something like a revocable trust or even form a LLC
to
own and rent the house, putting some insulation between you and potential
problems.

Or join an outlaw motorcycle gang, and make sure your tenants know it,
just
to discourage bad behavior. ;~)

I think I've been convinced I don't want to be a remote landlord to save an
indeterminate amount of money that could approach zero. (-:

--
Bobby G.

That would be CEO BHO? You know?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Robert Green" wrote in message
...

It won't be long until
some corporate shill starts complaining that retirement
savings are poison
and are keeping the economy from growing by keeping money
"locked up" and
not "flowing freely."

--
Bobby G.

You bought a .380 to take out a 300 pound crazy man? Do you
think that's enough gun? I doubt it.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Robert Green"
wrote in message
...


You're joking, I am sure, but you did remind me of why I
bought my first gun
and moved from my first apartment. It was a 300 pound guy
slamming himself
against the front door, breaking a hinge, shouting out "I am
going to GET
you Joe!" (My name's not Joe, FWIW.) It took the police 30
minutes to
respond as I wondered how long the door would hold. The
next day I bought a
..380 Beretta I nicknamed "Sergeant."

--
Bobby G.

"Hell Toupee" wrote in message
...
On 2/1/2011 8:14 AM, Robert Green wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

You can hire a property management company to handle the rental for
you, including dealing with evictions. They will tell you what
processes they use to screen renters and show you sample rental
agreements. If you'd rather not go that route, you should find some of
the online forums for people who invest in and rent out rent
properties, such as the SDCIA http://sdcia.websitetoolbox.com You can
join these forums and get advice from experienced landlords.

You will, of course, have to make background checks prospective
renters, including credit, criminal histories, rental histories,
references. Verify their current employment and income, and confirm
their prior rental histories - call the landlord, don't just take the
applicant's word for it. It's common for crooked types to give you a
fake landlord, usually a friend of theirs - so check the property and
confirm with the owner of record that the applicant really had rented
from them. If you can, inspect their current home. If it's a dump, you
know they'll treat your home the same way.

It turns out I don't want to rent to anyone who was like me when I first
started out! (-:

Do a face-to-face interview and look for anything that raises flags,
such as dilated or red eyes, track marks, lying about small things,
changing their story, repeated protestations of honesty, failing to
answer certain questions. Use your gut instincts. You won't catch them
all, but you'll spot some of them.

Sounds like a good idea. Glad I've been watching "Lie to Me" to get a
handle on micro facial expressions.

Put a clause in the agreement outlining who, and only who, is allowed
to reside in the home. You don't want a situation where you discover
too late that the couple who signed the lease turned it over to their
spoiled kid and all his frat buddies, nor do you want lowlifes renting
out every square yard in the house to their friends.

This a college town. They pack 'em in like clown cars despite the local
zoning laws limiting the number of occupants. That's why inspection (or a
webcam mounted in a neighbor's window pointing to the house) is a very, very
good idea.

If you do have to evict, a strategy suggested by several landlords is
to bribe the tenant to leave asap. You and they know they can drag
things out, and you don't want them to do any (additional) damage in
the meantime. So you phrase it as a service to them: you gotta evict
them, but you know it won't be easy for them to find a new place right
away. You are willing to "help out" by paying them a relocation fee
(usually two-three hundred bucks) to get their stuff out within 24
hours. You will meet them and pay them cash as they vacate. Lowlifes
find it hard to resist cash. Don't get worked up about having to pay
them to leave when the law's on your side; you have to view the bribe
as a cost of business. You're protecting your property from (further)
damage.

I came across this "technique" when listening to Carleton Sheets CDs I had
borrowed. Apparently three Ben Franklins translates into an irresistible
lure for skeevy dirtballs. Good to know. My neighbor only rents to fellow
churchmembers. Now I know why.

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"Colbyt" wrote in message
m...

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant
who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out?
I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted
to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.



I don't do section 8.

Some have suggested that's not legal. Can you shed any light on how you
refuse Section 8 and whether it's legal to do so?

If they don't pay their rent it takes 23 days to get
them out. If they are paying and I don't want them there anymore it
takes
33 days to get them out.

That's how it's supposed to work, but this A88hole on the People's Court
apparently found that if the unit is not in good repair (i.e., he simply
broke out a window) that the eviction process is put on hold until the
repairs are made.

Here you simply serve them with a notice to pay or vacate or a notice to
vacate. The judge does the rest. There are no valid reasons for not
paying
your rent. The judge doesn't even listen to the excuses.

Colbyt

If I am not mistaken, you live in Lexington KY where the judges are
probably
a tad more sympathetic to landlords then they are here. The more I
research, the less I find I like about being a landlord, at least in
suburban MD.

--
Bobby G.



I do live in Lexington and the judges simply enforce the law as it is
written. Sympathy does not enter into it. If you are not happy with the
laws in your state, lobby for change. Personally I would not be a landlord
in the northeast or the peoples republic of California.

There is no legal requirement, at least in this state, to accept section 8
or any other form of subsidized housing; so it is not a Federal law. I have
accepted it in the past. I am an authorized Landlord. For your area a
simple call to the section 8 office will get you an answer to your question
as it applies to you.

Colbyt

Yes, I would assume the thought of losing $1,000 makes even the most
determined house trasher stop and think whether it's worth it. The AC
breaker idea is an interesting one, and since it's outside the house, I
wouldn't have to enter to deactivate it. I'll keep that in mind.

We only had two real issues with renters who insisted on their "rights".
One was the AC lady, and another was two brothers who got in a fight, landed
in jail, and left the next day.

You have to be VERY careful when entering your own premises when someone has
an agreement, rental or otherwise. They can claim that their Rolex is
missing, all sorts of things, and if you admit to having entered the house,
you're in trouble.

We have since had our agreement redone by an attorney, and classified under
the hotel and innkeeper laws of the county, and with those laws, you just
have to tell them to leave, and if they don't, you merely call the police.
Of course, that was $500.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
Download the book.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

Robert Green wrote:

You're joking, I am sure, but you did remind me of why I bought my
first gun and moved from my first apartment. It was a 300 pound guy
slamming himself against the front door, breaking a hinge, shouting
out "I am going to GET you Joe!" (My name's not Joe, FWIW.) It took
the police 30 minutes to respond as I wondered how long the door
would hold. The next day I bought a .380 Beretta I nicknamed
"Sergeant."

I suppose I could advertise via nym on Craigslist that I looked like
Jennifer Lopez and I loved having simulated break-in sex . . . nah,
that could backfire in any number of horrible ways . . . (-:

What could go wrong?

As to one's initial choice of a firearm for personal protection at home, as
somewhat of a gun maven, I'd suggest a 16 (or larger) gauge shotgun.

A nice compromise is "The Judge," a revolver that shoots .410 gauge shotgun
shells and/or .45 long colt cartridges. Your first shot should be the
shotgun shell. That stuns the assailant so he presents a stationary target
for the bowling-ball-sized bullet that's next in line.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
clipped
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a
vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact
me
if you need further information.

Steve


We had short-term renters in our beach-area neighborhood in
Florida...great for college kids to gang up and drink for a week. It
was violation of local code, but was not enforced. Great way to ****
off the neighbors.

We're in a college town, one that's made the national news several times
because of the drunken riots kids through after winning a big game. The
landlord next to us got desperate and rented to kids who ended up having a
kegger and lighting a huge bonfire under a dried out tree that caught on
fire requiring 4 firetrucks and 6 police cars to respond at 2AM. That's
what I would like to avoid!

--
Bobby G.

Our agreement is iron clad legally. If there is any illegal activity, we
can tell them to leave. Consult an attorney in your area, and try to have
it classified under the innkeeper statutes. One of the things that
qualifies it as an inn is that regular maid service is provided.

We also ask how many guests will be sleeping overnight, and adjust the price
for the additional cleanup and laundry. If we go over and there is an
obvious party going on, we put the brakes on it, or just keep it within
reason. We have had guests that have thrown parties for all sorts of things
with a lot of people there. You just have to use your discretion, and it is
easy to see the difference between 30 people there for a reunion and 30
people there drinking and puking all over the place. You can easily read
people. And you can easily count how many people are staying overnight.
And if there's a question, you just throw the breaker and go in and see.
Remember, though, they have to ask you in.

If it is important enough to call the police or fire department, we need to
talk about things.

HTH, but check things in YOUR area. Then tapdance within the lines.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
Download the book.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

Robert Green wrote:

Well, I am not sure I want to infest my own house with field mice or
ruin my own locks, but I guess I would be changing them anyway when
they moved out, got burned out, smoked out, bugged out or whatever.
But there have been some interesting suggestions on driving on bad
tenants so keep thinking Bub, that's what you're good at! (-:

Naw, field mice won't hurt anything. Used to have them every year at the
first cold spell - they were just trying to get warm. Believe me, they'd
rather live in the field anyway - especially after we got a cat.

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:


All I can say that as bad as the crash was here, I am sure glad I don't live
in Florida. If global climate change theorists are right, Florida is due
for death by hurricane any season now. The Feds will eventually have to
insure Floridians because no insurer will want to take the risk if there are
lots of Katrina and Andrew size storms in your future.

The largest wind insurance company (at least according to yesterday's
Miami Herald) is already the state-owned company. Most others have
trimmed back as fast as the state will let them.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:



We've been thinking about that and the only thing that scares me is that I
was a housesitter once upon a time and I wasn't particularly a responsible
young man although I could fake it enough to get the gig. I am afraid I
would be turning my house over to a younger version of me. (-:

Had the same concerns with my daughters (grin).



--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Robert Green wrote:

You're joking, I am sure, but you did remind me of why I bought my
first gun and moved from my first apartment. It was a 300 pound guy
slamming himself against the front door, breaking a hinge, shouting
out "I am going to GET you Joe!" (My name's not Joe, FWIW.) It took
the police 30 minutes to respond as I wondered how long the door
would hold. The next day I bought a .380 Beretta I nicknamed
"Sergeant."

I suppose I could advertise via nym on Craigslist that I looked like
Jennifer Lopez and I loved having simulated break-in sex . . . nah,
that could backfire in any number of horrible ways . . . (-:

What could go wrong?

As to one's initial choice of a firearm for personal protection at home,
as somewhat of a gun maven, I'd suggest a 16 (or larger) gauge shotgun.

A nice compromise is "The Judge," a revolver that shoots .410 gauge
shotgun shells and/or .45 long colt cartridges. Your first shot should be
the shotgun shell. That stuns the assailant so he presents a stationary
target for the bowling-ball-sized bullet that's next in line.

The Judge is a POS. It has such recoil that most people cannot shoot it
safely. It is inaccurate. It is a small hand held cannon for people with
short weenies. A real pump shotgun is a good home defense weapon. You
don't even have to aim, just point it towards the noise. And a round over
their head works wonders. The sound of one being jacked is magnified about
7x in the dark. And shotgun pellets don't travel far and kill someone ten
blocks away. Or three rooms away.Even if you severely screw up and hit the
ground, they will do damage to several people.

MHO, Ymmv, and all that stuff.

My favorite intimidation weapon is my Ithaca Featherlight sawed off 16 ga.
18.5 inch barrel, of course. Lanyard to the pistol grip, hung around the
neck, and easily concealed in a coat. #2 pellets.

Steve

I was thinking of something remote controlled, like a kill switch for
the
furnace or something similar. Something that would make staying in the
home, not paying rent unpalatable. Would it make sense to keep the
utilities in our name and pass them through so that we could cut them
off,
or does cutting off a deadbeat's electricity boomerang back on the
landlord?

Put all utilities in the tenant name.

If they go all stupid, don't spend a bunch of money of ways to get
them out. Just take the front door off, frame and all. Explain you
have to order a custom made Mahogany door from Belize.

Or shut off the gas and call the gas company and tell them you smelled gas.
They won't turn it back on until they thoroughly check the premises, and at
that time, you have access as owner, and will probably have to sign off on
the work order. Most public service employees are required to report any
presence of drugs, illegal firearms, child abuse, child neglect, mostly
anything out of the ordinary that you can have them arrested for, and you,
as property owner would have probable cause to report such observances
during said inspection for the source of the gas leak.



Steve

On 2/2/2011 11:25 PM, Steve B wrote:
I was thinking of something remote controlled, like a kill switch for
the
furnace or something similar. Something that would make staying in the
home, not paying rent unpalatable. Would it make sense to keep the
utilities in our name and pass them through so that we could cut them
off,
or does cutting off a deadbeat's electricity boomerang back on the
landlord?

Put all utilities in the tenant name.

If they go all stupid, don't spend a bunch of money of ways to get
them out. Just take the front door off, frame and all. Explain you
have to order a custom made Mahogany door from Belize.

Or shut off the gas and call the gas company and tell them you smelled gas.
They won't turn it back on until they thoroughly check the premises, and at
that time, you have access as owner, and will probably have to sign off on
the work order. Most public service employees are required to report any
presence of drugs, illegal firearms, child abuse, child neglect, mostly
anything out of the ordinary that you can have them arrested for, and you,
as property owner would have probable cause to report such observances
during said inspection for the source of the gas leak.

Steve


Me and my buddy GB repair AC units for this nice lady who owns a few
rental houses. When she has a tenant who is chronically late or fails
to pay rent, she pulls and takes the AC unit disconnect plug from the
box with her. It's funny how the heating and cooling quit working when
an HVAC package unit loses power when the insert is out of the safety
disconnect. :-)

TDD

Steve B wrote:

What could go wrong?

As to one's initial choice of a firearm for personal protection at
home, as somewhat of a gun maven, I'd suggest a 16 (or larger) gauge
shotgun. A nice compromise is "The Judge," a revolver that shoots .410
gauge
shotgun shells and/or .45 long colt cartridges. Your first shot
should be the shotgun shell. That stuns the assailant so he presents
a stationary target for the bowling-ball-sized bullet that's next in
line.

The Judge is a POS. It has such recoil that most people cannot shoot
it safely. It is inaccurate. It is a small hand held cannon for
people with short weenies. A real pump shotgun is a good home
defense weapon. You don't even have to aim, just point it towards
the noise. And a round over their head works wonders. The sound of
one being jacked is magnified about 7x in the dark. And shotgun
pellets don't travel far and kill someone ten blocks away. Or three
rooms away.Even if you severely screw up and hit the ground, they
will do damage to several people.
MHO, Ymmv, and all that stuff.


Heh!

A recent news report showed a 5'2" woman (weighing, at most, 110 pounds),
got off several shots from a Judge at some would-be robbers. The adrenaline
surge turned her into Superwoman. - didn't even flinch.

Still,

A "round over their heads?" You're worried about killing someone "ten blocks
away?" Or "three rooms away?"

You sound like a victim waiting to happen.

On 2/3/2011 12:16 AM, Steve B wrote:
wrote in message
m...
Robert Green wrote:

You're joking, I am sure, but you did remind me of why I bought my
first gun and moved from my first apartment. It was a 300 pound guy
slamming himself against the front door, breaking a hinge, shouting
out "I am going to GET you Joe!" (My name's not Joe, FWIW.) It took
the police 30 minutes to respond as I wondered how long the door
would hold. The next day I bought a .380 Beretta I nicknamed
"Sergeant."

I suppose I could advertise via nym on Craigslist that I looked like
Jennifer Lopez and I loved having simulated break-in sex . . . nah,
that could backfire in any number of horrible ways . . . (-:

What could go wrong?

As to one's initial choice of a firearm for personal protection at home,
as somewhat of a gun maven, I'd suggest a 16 (or larger) gauge shotgun.

A nice compromise is "The Judge," a revolver that shoots .410 gauge
shotgun shells and/or .45 long colt cartridges. Your first shot should be
the shotgun shell. That stuns the assailant so he presents a stationary
target for the bowling-ball-sized bullet that's next in line.

The Judge is a POS. It has such recoil that most people cannot shoot it
safely. It is inaccurate. It is a small hand held cannon for people with
short weenies. A real pump shotgun is a good home defense weapon. You
don't even have to aim, just point it towards the noise. And a round over
their head works wonders. The sound of one being jacked is magnified about
7x in the dark. And shotgun pellets don't travel far and kill someone ten
blocks away. Or three rooms away.Even if you severely screw up and hit the
ground, they will do damage to several people.


Consider who recommended it...

Anyone who has contemplated having the proper tools on hand (or has
attended training from a competent instructor) will tell you that a
shotgun is what you want. I have a pump shotgun with a 18 1/8" barrel
for personal protection in the home.


MHO, Ymmv, and all that stuff.

My favorite intimidation weapon is my Ithaca Featherlight sawed off 16 ga.
18.5 inch barrel, of course. Lanyard to the pistol grip, hung around the
neck, and easily concealed in a coat. #2 pellets.

Steve

On 2/2/2011 3:51 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
clipped
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a
vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact
me
if you need further information.

Steve


We had short-term renters in our beach-area neighborhood in
Florida...great for college kids to gang up and drink for a week. It
was violation of local code, but was not enforced. Great way to ****
off the neighbors.

We're in a college town, one that's made the national news several times
because of the drunken riots kids through after winning a big game. The
landlord next to us got desperate and rented to kids who ended up having a
kegger and lighting a huge bonfire under a dried out tree that caught on
fire requiring 4 firetrucks and 6 police cars to respond at 2AM. That's
what I would like to avoid!

--
Bobby G.



LMAO. that HAS to be Lawrence Kansas. Drunk capitol of the world.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/1/2011 3:24 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Steve


I checked into this and there is no requirement to take section 8. Maybe
you are confusing this with various other discrimination laws?

On 2/2/2011 6:51 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"Smitty wrote in message
news
In ,
"Robert wrote:

We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

Some random feedback, without having read the other responses: I am both
a tenant and a landlord, and the idea that the tenant/landlord
relationship must be adversarial is nonsense. Bad tenants are easy to
find, so are good ones. I'm a fantastic tenant, and I've got great
tenants. Nothing is on paper. Gentlemen don't need paper.

I agree. Nothing dictates it be anything but cordial and mutually
beneficial. I assume you live someplace where chivalry means something to
be able to operate without paper. I assure you, that's not here!

You here the nightmare stories, because those are the ones that are
supposedly noteworthy.

What is your financial situation? (a question for you to ponder, not
publicly answer) Around here, housesitting is common. Property owner
gets a hyper-responsible person living in and watching over the house,
and the sitter gets to pay his rent with something other than cash
money. If you don't need the money, it's better than letting the house
sit empty for extended periods.

We've been thinking about that and the only thing that scares me is that I
was a housesitter once upon a time and I wasn't particularly a responsible
young man although I could fake it enough to get the gig. I am afraid I
would be turning my house over to a younger version of me. (-:

Another option, if you live in a city that attracts tourists or
traveling businessmen, is the "vacation rental." Your place must be
immaculate, but you'll get motel suite rates for it, making a "month's
worth" of rent if you rent it out two weekends per month. You can
sub-contract the management, cleaning, etc. to people or agencies that
specialize in vacation rentals.

Yes - we're near enough to DC to make it attractive to tourists but that
kind of rental is usually best done by someone who's living near the area to
coordinate things. We wouldn't be.


A friend inherited a bunch of rental properties in a tourist area. She
had to hire a management company because she doesn't live in that area.
So when a lighbulb burns out the renter calls the management company who
dispatches an electrician to change the bulb and she gets a bill for
$185.00.


Thanks for your input - it's something to consider if we ever decide to
become professional landlords.

--
Bobby G.

When the burglar is minutes away, the cops are
half an hour away. Sounds like Robert (mr. Not
Joe) would have been well served, to have a
pump shotgun with good loads. And some
training on how to use it safely.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"George"
wrote in message
...

Robert Green wrote:

You're joking, I am sure, but you did remind me of why I
bought my
first gun and moved from my first apartment. It was a 300
pound guy
slamming himself against the front door, breaking a hinge,
shouting
out "I am going to GET you Joe!" (My name's not Joe,
FWIW.) It took
the police 30 minutes to respond as I wondered how long
the door
would hold. The next day I bought a .380 Beretta I
nicknamed
"Sergeant."


Anyone who has contemplated having the proper tools on hand
(or has
attended training from a competent instructor) will tell you
that a
shotgun is what you want. I have a pump shotgun with a 18
1/8" barrel
for personal protection in the home.

That rapidly takes the profit out of the rentals.

How many electricians does it take to screw
you over, about a light bulb?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"George" wrote in message
...

A friend inherited a bunch of rental properties in a tourist
area. She
had to hire a management company because she doesn't live in
that area.
So when a lighbulb burns out the renter calls the management
company who
dispatches an electrician to change the bulb and she gets a
bill for
$185.00.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:

What could go wrong?

As to one's initial choice of a firearm for personal protection at
home, as somewhat of a gun maven, I'd suggest a 16 (or larger) gauge
shotgun. A nice compromise is "The Judge," a revolver that shoots .410
gauge
shotgun shells and/or .45 long colt cartridges. Your first shot
should be the shotgun shell. That stuns the assailant so he presents
a stationary target for the bowling-ball-sized bullet that's next in
line.

The Judge is a POS. It has such recoil that most people cannot shoot
it safely. It is inaccurate. It is a small hand held cannon for
people with short weenies. A real pump shotgun is a good home
defense weapon. You don't even have to aim, just point it towards
the noise. And a round over their head works wonders. The sound of
one being jacked is magnified about 7x in the dark. And shotgun
pellets don't travel far and kill someone ten blocks away. Or three
rooms away.Even if you severely screw up and hit the ground, they
will do damage to several people.
MHO, Ymmv, and all that stuff.


Heh!

A recent news report showed a 5'2" woman (weighing, at most, 110 pounds),
got off several shots from a Judge at some would-be robbers. The
adrenaline surge turned her into Superwoman. - didn't even flinch.

Still,

A "round over their heads?" You're worried about killing someone "ten
blocks away?" Or "three rooms away?"

You sound like a victim waiting to happen.

You can be so stupid sometimes, yet lucid at others. Have you ever been
duck hunting, and someone put some shot over your head? The sound gets your
attention. And the shot loses velocity really quickly, hitting you with
about as much force as a common BB from an air rifle at fifty feet. The
"three rooms away" thing was in reference to YOUR mention of using slugs in
the .410, which has to be around a 200 grain slug.

Do try to keep up.

Do you actually own any guns?

PS: Victims are at the barrel end of the gun. I'm on the trigger end. And
there ARE videos out there of little women getting a new part in their
hairline from handgun recoil.

HTH, but I doubt it.

Steve

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