We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

On Feb 1, 9:14*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of retiring
to. *Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are code
violations. *Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? *How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? *I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. *While I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

Credit checks cost a little money but can help eliminate bad apples.
Actually talking to the previous landlord is important also. They may
be reluctant to say anything bad about tenants but you mignt learn
something. It is better to leave the place empty for a month or two
rather than just grabbing money from the first person who comes
along. Beware of people who talk too much or tell you lots of stuff
that has nothing to do with your problem. They are often blowing
smoke as a distraction.

On 2/1/2011 9:14 AM, Robert Green wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.



Might help to talk to the sheriff, or whomever does evictions...may know
some loopholes, history. Check the local codes for rentals. Get a good
application that requires job and housing history and take a personal
look at where they have lived. Gotta be careful of stuff that implies
discrimination, as that can include family size or ages of kids. Lease
sometimes can limit number of people who reside, as can some building
codes. If you have a network of friends or church members, they might
steer reliable applicants. Attorney advice? Advertised as being
worthwhile, but I am a doubter ) Just doing a google search on a name
sometimes turns up news of arrests or suits.

wrote in message
m...
On 2/1/2011 9:14 AM, Robert Green wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.



Might help to talk to the sheriff, or whomever does evictions...may know
some loopholes, history. Check the local codes for rentals. Get a good
application that requires job and housing history and take a personal
look at where they have lived. Gotta be careful of stuff that implies
discrimination, as that can include family size or ages of kids. Lease
sometimes can limit number of people who reside, as can some building
codes. If you have a network of friends or church members, they might
steer reliable applicants. Attorney advice? Advertised as being
worthwhile, but I am a doubter ) Just doing a google search on a name
sometimes turns up news of arrests or suits.

That's a good idea, although I wonder in this day and age if asking the
sheriff any questions doesn't get you into some damn terrorist database! We
are in a college town and have very strict limits on the number of unrelated
family members living together as well as many other things. One very bad
thing is that code violations are charged to the property and I can get
stuck with some pretty hefty fees if I don't get timely notices.

I've started talking to a neighbor who's rented out her house on occasion
and she's been burned repeatedly by renters who know how to use the strict
rules as a club. Her advice is very much like yours - learn all the shall
nots, will nots and can nots and make sure you account for them in the
lease.

The ways she got burned pretty much parallel all of the tricks I've seen
pulled on the various TV court (arbitration, really) shows. Today there was
another one. A Section 8 renter claimed that broken windows, punched doors
and dirty carpets were "like that" when she got the place. That state (NJ,
IIRC) had strict time and format limits (and fines) for landlords who
withheld damage deposits. Fortunately, although neither side had meaningful
photos, the landlord had a Section 8 property pre-rental inspection report
that found those items to be new (she had receipts for new carpeting) so the
judge threw the deadbeat tenant out.

Well, forewarned is forearmed. Lots of research to do. Maybe even spend a
day at the courthouse when they are hearing evictions. That could scare me
straight into leaving the house vacant while we tour the retirement areas of
the country. We really want to be in a natural disaster free zone, having
had a lifetime's share of hurricanes, floods and most recently, tornadoes
and earthquakes. At some point, rebuilding your life from scratch loses its
novelty value. )-" With all these drastic changes in the weather, it's hard
to say where the best places to live are anymore.

--
Bobby G.

clipped

Well, forewarned is forearmed. Lots of research to do. Maybe even spend a
day at the courthouse when they are hearing evictions. That could scare me
straight into leaving the house vacant while we tour the retirement areas of
the country. We really want to be in a natural disaster free zone, having
had a lifetime's share of hurricanes, floods and most recently, tornadoes
and earthquakes. At some point, rebuilding your life from scratch loses its
novelty value. )-" With all these drastic changes in the weather, it's hard
to say where the best places to live are anymore.

--
Bobby G.



Don't know where you will find an area free of natural disasters...if
there is one, then man-made disasters probably make up for what nature
missed ) My neighborhood in Florida was largely retirees, of course.
When the old folks die off, they tend to be replaced by rather useless
children...kids who live off parents tend to jump into inherited
property, as opposed to kids who have their own stable life. I guessed
that 80% of my neighbors had alcohol and/or drug problems. Numerous
trust-fund babies. I have no problem with folks having wealth, but
there is a definite group of utterly worthless people who have always
lived off their parents and have never made their own way...so, a fancy
address doesn't mean they haven't had multiple DUI's (lawyered-up,
thanks to mommy and daddy), drug use/selling, etc. Prescription drug
use was epidemic, and I believe the county had two or three hundred
deaths last year from rx drug od's. I wouldn't buy property anywhere in
Florida nowadays. There are still plenty of snow-birds who own condos
that are rarely used or are rented short-time...condos with non-resident
owners are hell-holes because managing is "not my job".

I moved back to Indiana, and there are some great buys...have looked at
a couple of old homes with really great bones that need to be updated.
Also lots of small, starter homes. All foreclosures or HUD owned. Just
had news of another local layoff of 200 or more people from one of the
larger employers, so things aren't fixed yet.

I think employment and housing ref's would be very important, and then
trust you gut. I'm thinking if one advertises a rental that it must
include that requirement to help avoid discrimination nonsense.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...


That could scare me
straight into leaving the house vacant while we tour the retirement areas
of
the country. We really want to be in a natural disaster free zone, having
had a lifetime's share of hurricanes, floods and most recently, tornadoes
and earthquakes. At some point, rebuilding your life from scratch loses
its
novelty value. )-

Let us know if you find someplace, my wife and I have been wondering where
it might be.

"DGDevin" wrote in message
m...


"Robert Green" wrote in message
...


That could scare me
straight into leaving the house vacant while we tour the retirement
areas
of
the country. We really want to be in a natural disaster free zone,
having
had a lifetime's share of hurricanes, floods and most recently,
tornadoes
and earthquakes. At some point, rebuilding your life from scratch loses
its
novelty value. )-

Let us know if you find someplace, my wife and I have been wondering where
it might be.

God, Mother Nature, Mexican drug cartels, criminal mismanagement and just
plain entropy have all significantly shortened a lengthy list of places we
talked about 20 years ago as being good places to retire. Aside from
natural disasters, we would like to avoid a place that decides that retirees
are now its only source of income and begins taxing them into poverty. That
process is well underway in a number of places. )-: It won't be long until
some corporate shill starts complaining that retirement savings are poison
and are keeping the economy from growing by keeping money "locked up" and
not "flowing freely."

--
Bobby G.

That would be CEO BHO? You know?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Robert Green" wrote in message
...

It won't be long until
some corporate shill starts complaining that retirement
savings are poison
and are keeping the economy from growing by keeping money
"locked up" and
not "flowing freely."

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.


For the reasons you fear, I had decided a few years ago against buying some
rental property. From my experience, with other people's rental properties,
you have two ends of the spectrum. You have low end sec 8 low lifes trashing
your property, or you have high end legally savvy dirt bags living in the
place rent free while you spend piles of money on lawyers trying to evict
them. I think that in a lot of the more "liberal" states, the laws are
designed to protect the offender and few to protect the evil, greedy
landlord, so my best advice would be to find tenants via friends in the real
estate business who are willing to "illegally" screen them for you.

"RBM" wrote in message
...

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.


For the reasons you fear, I had decided a few years ago against buying
some
rental property. From my experience, with other people's rental
properties,
you have two ends of the spectrum. You have low end sec 8 low lifes
trashing
your property, or you have high end legally savvy dirt bags living in the
place rent free while you spend piles of money on lawyers trying to evict
them. I think that in a lot of the more "liberal" states, the laws are
designed to protect the offender and few to protect the evil, greedy
landlord, so my best advice would be to find tenants via friends in the
real
estate business who are willing to "illegally" screen them for you.

You raise a good point. On the daily court shows, there seems to be exactly
the two ends of the spectrum you describe. There's also a third class - the
honest beef about what wear and tear is worth. I've yet to see a landlord
and tenant agree on that. The worst ones are those that know they can do a
hell of a lot of damage that they can never be held accountable for. I want
to try hard to eliminate them from the candidate pool and failing that, have
some sort of way to feed 100,000 bees into the heating system by remote
control and force them out! From what I see, it's pretty painful to have to
pay the mortgage for a bunch of deadbeats who are destroying the property
while they game the system. Leads a lot of landlords to engage in illegal
self-help. There has to be some sort of legal "self-help" that works.

What if the place becomes condemned and the local government then is in the
role of forcing them out? It just seems so bizarre that so many people seem
to be able to get away with freeloading. Apparently a foreclosure notice of
any kind seems to be a "rent no longer required" notice to some tenants,
even if it was placed there in error.

--
Bobby G.

On Feb 1, 9:14*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of retiring
to. *Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are code
violations. *Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? *How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? *I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. *While I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.


Robert:

Here is a question that you will probably not be able to answer:

What jurisdiction was that case you saw on People's Court from?

Different laws apply in different states -- People's Court takes cases
from ALL over the place...

Now to address your specific concerns within the law:

Nothing REQUIRES you to accept Section 8 housing vouchers, if it
concerns you so much don't accept that as a form of rental payment
and then the situation you saw on that TV show won't apply to you...

You should have your home thoroughly inspected by the local AHJ
for any violations prior to ever even inviting potential tenants over
to
view the place...

Address any deficiencies listed on the inspector's report... Then
have a re-inspection done where you are given a clean bill of
health which you would keep on file in the event of any future
disputes... (it isn't a bad idea to have the rental unit reinspected
by the AHJ between every new tenancy...)

Then you will document EVERYTHING about the house by taking
pictures with a camera that uses film... Make sure that the camera
prints the date in the exposure... These pictures will be used if
there is a dispute between you and your first tenant about the
condition of things at a later date... (You will need to do this
before
every new tenancy and be sure to keep the pictures and negatives
in case you need to use them later on in a dispute...)

Periodic inspections during the tenancy will alert you to damages
being done by the tenant which can either be addressed at once
if a code compliance issue, or you could confront the tenant at
the end of one lease year about the damages... At any rate,
never extend a lease from one year to the next without bringing
in an independent inspection firm to go through a house you
are renting and getting a report from them on the condition of
the home... Effect any repairs that are necessities -- again
have it reinspected so that you have a piece of paper created
by a 3rd party which states your home is in good condition...

Now damages done to your property by people who checked
out through your background and credit check process can be
addressed by having a thoroughly and well thought out lease
contract which is reviewed by a licensed lawyer in your state
prior to ever putting a tenant's name on it... Then it is a very
good idea to have the lease signed in the presence of a notary
public rather than having "witnesses" sign... A notary records
the identification information in their log book of every person
whose signature they officiate -- that is a non-interested 3rd
party record which could be subpoenaed in the event of a
later dispute...

The terms of your lease should describe the premises being
rented, the amenities offered, the responsibilities of the
tenants and any rules they must follow (this should include
complying with the minimum cleanliness standards that
your local health department requires as well as not storing
extra disabled cars on your property, etc...) and the process
which must be followed by the tenant to report some sort
of malfunction or failure of some aspect of the rental unit
which would impact its habitability...

You must learn and follow the eviction procedures for your
jurisdiction... Having the lawyer who consults on the
legality and specific verbiage of your lease contract can
instruct you on that process... It begins with an official
demand letter which is served upon your tenant by a
constable who will certify that it was delivered and return
a sworn statement to that effect stating that the tenant
is x-number of days delinquent in payment of rent... It
is important to initiate this action no later than 15 days
after non-payment of rent and to keep sending new
notices for every month the tenant is in non-payment
since after you have your tenant served with a "notice
to quit" (the precursor to an eviction process) it can
take three to six months depending on how busy your
local housing courts are to file an eviction proceeding
against your tenant and obtain a judgment against them
which can be enforced by the constable/sheriff who can
physically remove the tenant and the tenant's possessions
from your property after the court grants an eviction...

All of this sort of stuff costs money, but you need to
protect yourself and your property... Cases in civil court
are won or lost by evidence (documentation) and the better
your evidence (from disinterested 3rd parties) the more
persuasive it can be... DO NOT EVER RELY on your word
against the tenants -- that hardly ever works out in totality
for one side or the other...

If you feel you do not possess the skills to be a landlord,
find a property management company who will act in
your place on this issue and grant them a power of attorney
to act on your behalf (especially if you are going to be
moving far enough away so that you can not report to
the property in a period of a few hours to approve expensive
emergency repairs and then inspect them as they are
being completed or just after they were completed) as
many things must be done and that 3rd party (property
manager) needs to be able to enter into contracts and
order services on your behalf in order to properly operate
your rental unit...

It all boils down to CYA and knowing what your legal
responsibilities are as a landlord under the law in your
area... If you are not sure as to either of those things
don't rent any property until you have learned what you
need to do... Otherwise it will bite you on your ass later
on HARD and you could be out a lot of money or end up
with a useless damaged rental unit which requires very
expensive repairs in order to be in a rentable condition...

~~ Evan

"Evan" wrote in message
...
On Feb 1, 9:14 am, "Robert Green" wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.


Robert:

Here is a question that you will probably not be able to answer:

What jurisdiction was that case you saw on People's Court from?

Actually, they always mention the location because, as you note, the laws
concerning rentals vary wildly from state to state and city to city. This,
IIRC, was in NJ.

Different laws apply in different states -- People's Court takes cases
from ALL over the place...

Agreed.

Now to address your specific concerns within the law: Nothing REQUIRES you
to accept Section 8 housing vouchers, if it concerns you so much don't
accept that as a form of rental payment and then the situation you saw on
that TV show won't apply to you...

Are you sure about that? I thought you could get charged with housing
discrimination if you refuse a Section 8 rental.

You should have your home thoroughly inspected by the local AHJ
for any violations prior to ever even inviting potential tenants over
to view the place...

An excellent idea. This last case was decided in favor of the landlord
BECAUSE the Section 8 law requires a pre-rental inspection by their
inspectors. Those records indicated the windows were not broken and the rug
was brand new and contradicted the lying tenant's assertions otherwise. An
independent 3rd party inspection carried great weight with the judge. I
assume it does with most judges/arbitrators.

Address any deficiencies listed on the inspector's report... Then
have a re-inspection done where you are given a clean bill of
health which you would keep on file in the event of any future
disputes... (it isn't a bad idea to have the rental unit reinspected
by the AHJ between every new tenancy...)

I've always relied on pictures and video to prove the condition of things I
rented or borrowed. It seems like your method is a much greater guarantee
of "acceptance" by a judge in landlord/tenant court. Good idea!

Then you will document EVERYTHING about the house by taking
pictures with a camera that uses film... Make sure that the camera
prints the date in the exposure... These pictures will be used if
there is a dispute between you and your first tenant about the
condition of things at a later date... (You will need to do this
before every new tenancy and be sure to keep the pictures and negatives
in case you need to use them later on in a dispute...)

I've always done this - with expensive rental tools, when I rented a POD
storage unit (now outlawed by the local government!), etc. Cuts down on the
"he said/she said" sort of disputes. On the People's Court case that
started this ball rolling, the tenant had a few worthless pictures, but it
was clear she had also adjusted the date between shots, documenting things
that couldn't have happened on those dates. The judge managed to catch it,
though. I wonder how many other judges would have.

Periodic inspections during the tenancy will alert you to damages
being done by the tenant which can either be addressed at once
if a code compliance issue, or you could confront the tenant at
the end of one lease year about the damages... At any rate,
never extend a lease from one year to the next without bringing
in an independent inspection firm to go through a house you
are renting and getting a report from them on the condition of
the home... Effect any repairs that are necessities -- again
have it reinspected so that you have a piece of paper created
by a 3rd party which states your home is in good condition...

I think that's excellent advice, Evan. Thanks.

Now damages done to your property by people who checked
out through your background and credit check process can be
addressed by having a thoroughly and well thought out lease
contract which is reviewed by a licensed lawyer in your state
prior to ever putting a tenant's name on it... Then it is a very
good idea to have the lease signed in the presence of a notary
public rather than having "witnesses" sign... A notary records
the identification information in their log book of every person
whose signature they officiate -- that is a non-interested 3rd
party record which could be subpoenaed in the event of a
later dispute...

It's amazing the number of low-lifes who claim "I never signed that!"
Another good idea.

The terms of your lease should describe the premises being
rented, the amenities offered, the responsibilities of the
tenants and any rules they must follow (this should include
complying with the minimum cleanliness standards that
your local health department requires as well as not storing
extra disabled cars on your property, etc...) and the process
which must be followed by the tenant to report some sort
of malfunction or failure of some aspect of the rental unit
which would impact its habitability...

Yes, finding the best lease might take a while. It's also why I might be
tempted to go with a management company for the first year.

You must learn and follow the eviction procedures for your
jurisdiction... Having the lawyer who consults on the
legality and specific verbiage of your lease contract can
instruct you on that process... It begins with an official
demand letter which is served upon your tenant by a
constable who will certify that it was delivered and return
a sworn statement to that effect stating that the tenant
is x-number of days delinquent in payment of rent... It
is important to initiate this action no later than 15 days
after non-payment of rent and to keep sending new
notices for every month the tenant is in non-payment
since after you have your tenant served with a "notice
to quit" (the precursor to an eviction process) it can
take three to six months depending on how busy your
local housing courts are to file an eviction proceeding
against your tenant and obtain a judgment against them
which can be enforced by the constable/sheriff who can
physically remove the tenant and the tenant's possessions
from your property after the court grants an eviction...

Gack. The six months part I definitely DO NOT LIKE. I'll have to check in
with the local housing folks to see how long it takes to get an average
eviction and if they have any words of wisdom for me about protecting my
rights.

All of this sort of stuff costs money, but you need to
protect yourself and your property... Cases in civil court
are won or lost by evidence (documentation) and the better
your evidence (from disinterested 3rd parties) the more
persuasive it can be... DO NOT EVER RELY on your word
against the tenants -- that hardly ever works out in totality
for one side or the other...

I did computer support for a big DC law firm for 10 years and my dad did
forensic investigation work, If there's anything I know, it's how to make a
civil case. Everything you've suggested is right on the mark!

If you feel you do not possess the skills to be a landlord,
find a property management company who will act in
your place on this issue and grant them a power of attorney
to act on your behalf (especially if you are going to be
moving far enough away so that you can not report to
the property in a period of a few hours to approve expensive
emergency repairs and then inspect them as they are
being completed or just after they were completed) as
many things must be done and that 3rd party (property
manager) needs to be able to enter into contracts and
order services on your behalf in order to properly operate
your rental unit...

I have a very good and knowledgeable neighbor I can depend on for doing some
of that. Fortunately, with electronic cameras and the net, you can get a
detailed report from half a world away within minutes. There's certainly a
lot to think about before becoming a landlord.

It all boils down to CYA and knowing what your legal
responsibilities are as a landlord under the law in your
area... If you are not sure as to either of those things
don't rent any property until you have learned what you
need to do... Otherwise it will bite you on your ass later
on HARD and you could be out a lot of money or end up
with a useless damaged rental unit which requires very
expensive repairs in order to be in a rentable condition...

Something I profoundly wish to avoid!

Thanks for all your input on this subject. It has been very educational.

--
Bobby G.

On Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:42:24 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

Yes, finding the best lease might take a while. It's also why I might be
tempted to go with a management company for the first year.

One thing not brought up yet: _Lease with Option to Buy_

You can be creative in the lease and after a set period of time the
Lessee would get financing and exercise the buy option. Someone
without a sizable down payment (first time buyer) would have a chance
to own a home. They would be more likely to care for the property.

If the renter met the requirement in the lease, you could even become
the bank - gives you power to foreclose (if it came to that).

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:42:24 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

Yes, finding the best lease might take a while. It's also why I might be
tempted to go with a management company for the first year.

One thing not brought up yet: _Lease with Option to Buy_

You can be creative in the lease and after a set period of time the
Lessee would get financing and exercise the buy option. Someone
without a sizable down payment (first time buyer) would have a chance
to own a home. They would be more likely to care for the property.

If the renter met the requirement in the lease, you could even become
the bank - gives you power to foreclose (if it came to that).

Yes, that's an interesting way to do things. But I worry that the incentive
to not destroy the property would disappear if the tenants discover you're
selling it to someone else. From what little I know of such situations,
"rent to buy" tenants always believe they've built up equity, even if they
haven't been able to bring their FICO score up enough to qualify for a
mortgage or save enough to cover down payments and closing costs.

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

There's not really a hell of a lot you can do, and it depends on the
locality, so you may be better or worse.

If a person even has one piece of mail addressed to them at an address, they
have proof of legal tenancy even if they are not on the lease. It then
becomes a legal matter, and that process is lengthy and costly. I own
vacation rentals, and the laws are a little better, but not too much. What
I did with one was to pull the AC breaker, claiming it was inoperative and
that I didn't have the money to pay to have it fixed, and they left without
trashing the place. We get $1,000 deposit, so have a little leverage. A
house has to be habitable, and that is the responsibility of the owner, but
who knows how long repairs take. It is purely a civil matter, so the police
won't do anything. And if they take you to court because there isn't any
water or heat, you can counter that they aren't paying rent so you have the
money to fix it. And if they aren't paying rent, what are you going to
lose? If the house is nice, in a nice neighborhood, or close to business or
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact me
if you need further information.

Steve

clipped
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact me
if you need further information.

Steve


We had short-term renters in our beach-area neighborhood in
Florida...great for college kids to gang up and drink for a week. It
was violation of local code, but was not enforced. Great way to ****
off the neighbors.

wrote in message
...
clipped
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a
vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact
me
if you need further information.

Steve


We had short-term renters in our beach-area neighborhood in
Florida...great for college kids to gang up and drink for a week. It was
violation of local code, but was not enforced. Great way to **** off the
neighbors.

So, were they there on business, or for a convention?

Duh.

Steve

wrote in message
...
clipped
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a
vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact
me
if you need further information.

Steve


We had short-term renters in our beach-area neighborhood in
Florida...great for college kids to gang up and drink for a week. It
was violation of local code, but was not enforced. Great way to ****
off the neighbors.

We're in a college town, one that's made the national news several times
because of the drunken riots kids through after winning a big game. The
landlord next to us got desperate and rented to kids who ended up having a
kegger and lighting a huge bonfire under a dried out tree that caught on
fire requiring 4 firetrucks and 6 police cars to respond at 2AM. That's
what I would like to avoid!

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
clipped
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a
vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact
me
if you need further information.

Steve


We had short-term renters in our beach-area neighborhood in
Florida...great for college kids to gang up and drink for a week. It
was violation of local code, but was not enforced. Great way to ****
off the neighbors.

We're in a college town, one that's made the national news several times
because of the drunken riots kids through after winning a big game. The
landlord next to us got desperate and rented to kids who ended up having a
kegger and lighting a huge bonfire under a dried out tree that caught on
fire requiring 4 firetrucks and 6 police cars to respond at 2AM. That's
what I would like to avoid!

--
Bobby G.

Our agreement is iron clad legally. If there is any illegal activity, we
can tell them to leave. Consult an attorney in your area, and try to have
it classified under the innkeeper statutes. One of the things that
qualifies it as an inn is that regular maid service is provided.

We also ask how many guests will be sleeping overnight, and adjust the price
for the additional cleanup and laundry. If we go over and there is an
obvious party going on, we put the brakes on it, or just keep it within
reason. We have had guests that have thrown parties for all sorts of things
with a lot of people there. You just have to use your discretion, and it is
easy to see the difference between 30 people there for a reunion and 30
people there drinking and puking all over the place. You can easily read
people. And you can easily count how many people are staying overnight.
And if there's a question, you just throw the breaker and go in and see.
Remember, though, they have to ask you in.

If it is important enough to call the police or fire department, we need to
talk about things.

HTH, but check things in YOUR area. Then tapdance within the lines.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
Download the book.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On 2/2/2011 3:51 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
clipped
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a
vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact
me
if you need further information.

Steve


We had short-term renters in our beach-area neighborhood in
Florida...great for college kids to gang up and drink for a week. It
was violation of local code, but was not enforced. Great way to ****
off the neighbors.

We're in a college town, one that's made the national news several times
because of the drunken riots kids through after winning a big game. The
landlord next to us got desperate and rented to kids who ended up having a
kegger and lighting a huge bonfire under a dried out tree that caught on
fire requiring 4 firetrucks and 6 police cars to respond at 2AM. That's
what I would like to avoid!

--
Bobby G.



LMAO. that HAS to be Lawrence Kansas. Drunk capitol of the world.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

There's not really a hell of a lot you can do, and it depends on the
locality, so you may be better or worse.

If a person even has one piece of mail addressed to them at an address,
they
have proof of legal tenancy even if they are not on the lease.

Yes, in watching these cases play out on TV, it's clear that once a tenancy
has been established, even tenuously, all sorts of "protections" for the
tenant come into play.

It then
becomes a legal matter, and that process is lengthy and costly. I own
vacation rentals, and the laws are a little better, but not too much.
What
I did with one was to pull the AC breaker, claiming it was inoperative and
that I didn't have the money to pay to have it fixed, and they left
without
trashing the place. We get $1,000 deposit, so have a little leverage.

Yes, I would assume the thought of losing $1,000 makes even the most
determined house trasher stop and think whether it's worth it. The AC
breaker idea is an interesting one, and since it's outside the house, I
wouldn't have to enter to deactivate it. I'll keep that in mind.

A
house has to be habitable, and that is the responsibility of the owner,
but
who knows how long repairs take. It is purely a civil matter, so the
police
won't do anything. And if they take you to court because there isn't any
water or heat, you can counter that they aren't paying rent so you have
the
money to fix it. And if they aren't paying rent, what are you going to
lose? If the house is nice, in a nice neighborhood, or close to business
or
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a
vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact me
if you need further information.

It's in Maryland, just outside of DC, so there's potential for vacation
rentals as it's close to the Metrorail. Unfortunately, from what I've been
able to tell from the County website, they are oriented toward tenant, not
landlord, protection. It may turn out that the political climate is just so
unfavorable to landlords that we'll either get a house sitter or leave it
empty as we travel.

--
Bobby G.

On 2/2/2011 4:48 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"Steve wrote in message
...

"Robert wrote in message
...
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

There's not really a hell of a lot you can do, and it depends on the
locality, so you may be better or worse.

If a person even has one piece of mail addressed to them at an address,
they
have proof of legal tenancy even if they are not on the lease.

Yes, in watching these cases play out on TV, it's clear that once a tenancy
has been established, even tenuously, all sorts of "protections" for the
tenant come into play.

It then
becomes a legal matter, and that process is lengthy and costly. I own
vacation rentals, and the laws are a little better, but not too much.
What
I did with one was to pull the AC breaker, claiming it was inoperative and
that I didn't have the money to pay to have it fixed, and they left
without
trashing the place. We get $1,000 deposit, so have a little leverage.

Yes, I would assume the thought of losing $1,000 makes even the most
determined house trasher stop and think whether it's worth it. The AC
breaker idea is an interesting one, and since it's outside the house, I
wouldn't have to enter to deactivate it. I'll keep that in mind.

A
house has to be habitable, and that is the responsibility of the owner,
but
who knows how long repairs take. It is purely a civil matter, so the
police
won't do anything. And if they take you to court because there isn't any
water or heat, you can counter that they aren't paying rent so you have
the
money to fix it. And if they aren't paying rent, what are you going to
lose? If the house is nice, in a nice neighborhood, or close to business
or
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a
vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact me
if you need further information.

It's in Maryland, just outside of DC, so there's potential for vacation
rentals as it's close to the Metrorail. Unfortunately, from what I've been
able to tell from the County website, they are oriented toward tenant, not
landlord, protection. It may turn out that the political climate is just so
unfavorable to landlords that we'll either get a house sitter or leave it
empty as we travel.

--
Bobby G.



Talk to your insurance company before you leave it empty. A lot of
policies may not cover on an 'empty' (ie, longer than a 2 week vacation)
house.

--
aem sends...

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
On 2/2/2011 4:48 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"Steve wrote in message
...

"Robert wrote in message
...
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant
who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had
managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there
are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out?
I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but
even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted
to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

There's not really a hell of a lot you can do, and it depends on the
locality, so you may be better or worse.

If a person even has one piece of mail addressed to them at an address,
they
have proof of legal tenancy even if they are not on the lease.

Yes, in watching these cases play out on TV, it's clear that once a
tenancy
has been established, even tenuously, all sorts of "protections" for the
tenant come into play.

It then
becomes a legal matter, and that process is lengthy and costly. I own
vacation rentals, and the laws are a little better, but not too much.
What
I did with one was to pull the AC breaker, claiming it was inoperative
and
that I didn't have the money to pay to have it fixed, and they left
without
trashing the place. We get $1,000 deposit, so have a little leverage.

Yes, I would assume the thought of losing $1,000 makes even the most
determined house trasher stop and think whether it's worth it. The AC
breaker idea is an interesting one, and since it's outside the house, I
wouldn't have to enter to deactivate it. I'll keep that in mind.

A
house has to be habitable, and that is the responsibility of the owner,
but
who knows how long repairs take. It is purely a civil matter, so the
police
won't do anything. And if they take you to court because there isn't
any
water or heat, you can counter that they aren't paying rent so you have
the
money to fix it. And if they aren't paying rent, what are you going to
lose? If the house is nice, in a nice neighborhood, or close to
business
or
conventions or other attractions, you may want to consider it as a
vacation
rental. You get a month's mortgage or more for a week's stay. Contact
me
if you need further information.

It's in Maryland, just outside of DC, so there's potential for vacation
rentals as it's close to the Metrorail. Unfortunately, from what I've
been
able to tell from the County website, they are oriented toward tenant,
not
landlord, protection. It may turn out that the political climate is
just so
unfavorable to landlords that we'll either get a house sitter or leave
it
empty as we travel.

--
Bobby G.



Talk to your insurance company before you leave it empty. A lot of
policies may not cover on an 'empty' (ie, longer than a 2 week vacation)
house.

--
aem sends...

Yes, I would assume the thought of losing $1,000 makes even the most
determined house trasher stop and think whether it's worth it. The AC
breaker idea is an interesting one, and since it's outside the house, I
wouldn't have to enter to deactivate it. I'll keep that in mind.

We only had two real issues with renters who insisted on their "rights".
One was the AC lady, and another was two brothers who got in a fight, landed
in jail, and left the next day.

You have to be VERY careful when entering your own premises when someone has
an agreement, rental or otherwise. They can claim that their Rolex is
missing, all sorts of things, and if you admit to having entered the house,
you're in trouble.

We have since had our agreement redone by an attorney, and classified under
the hotel and innkeeper laws of the county, and with those laws, you just
have to tell them to leave, and if they don't, you merely call the police.
Of course, that was $500.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
Download the book.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:14:55 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote Re Bad Tenants:

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out?

In liberal cities/states like San Francisco, NYC, Chicago you can't
prevent them from trashing the place and living rent free. The answer
is as simple as that. Unless you have a lot of rental units so that
your "good" units can carry the "bad" ones for a couple of years, you
take a bad hit. I've seen it several times.

Bottom line: stay were you are until you can sell the house.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:14:55 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote Re Bad Tenants:

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out?

In liberal cities/states like San Francisco, NYC, Chicago you can't
prevent them from trashing the place and living rent free. The answer
is as simple as that. Unless you have a lot of rental units so that
your "good" units can carry the "bad" ones for a couple of years, you
take a bad hit. I've seen it several times.

Bottom line: stay were you are until you can sell the house.

Sadly, both my wife and I are leaning toward that decision because we live
in an area where the tenant gets the benefit of all doubts in court.

--
Bobby G.

On 2/1/2011 9:14 AM, Robert Green wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt us.


Sure, and you can turn on the evening entertainment and news program and
see houses burned to the ground.


Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks with
rags and flooding the place.

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.


How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.


I would say you are overthinking this. Millions of folks rent properties
without issues. Use common sense and rent to folks you can check out.


I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

"George" wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Steve

On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 12:24:11 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote Re Bad Tenants:


"George" wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Another good reason to avoid doing residential rentals. If you really
feel compelled to get into real estate do commercial.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 12:24:11 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote Re Bad Tenants:


"George" wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Another good reason to avoid doing residential rentals. If you really
feel compelled to get into real estate do commercial.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

I guess vacation rentals is a form of commercial real estate. It definitely
pays good.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
Download the book.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 12:24:11 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote Re Bad Tenants:


"George" wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Another good reason to avoid doing residential rentals. If you really
feel compelled to get into real estate do commercial.

We're residentially zoned, so that option is out, at least as far as this
house is concerned.

--
Bobby G.

On 2/1/2011 5:12 PM, Caesar Romano wrote:
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 12:24:11 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote Re Bad Tenants:


wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Another good reason to avoid doing residential rentals. If you really
feel compelled to get into real estate do commercial.

Landlords have no legal obligation to accept Section 8 tenants.

On 2/1/2011 3:24 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Steve



Understood, but knowing a place welcomes section 8 drives away other
potential tenants. Most landlords don't TRY to get section 8 tenants
(unless they haven't been burned yet), but if the complex or houses are
starting to show their age, section 8 soon becomes their bread and butter.

Standard disclaimer- not all section 8 tenants are bad. Some are merely
going through a rough patch, and don't throw wild parties, shack up with
drug dealers, and trash the place. An actual married couple is usually
pretty safe, if both have jobs.

--
aem sends...

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
On 2/1/2011 3:24 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Steve



Understood, but knowing a place welcomes section 8 drives away other
potential tenants. Most landlords don't TRY to get section 8 tenants
(unless they haven't been burned yet), but if the complex or houses are
starting to show their age, section 8 soon becomes their bread and butter.

Yes, that's true. It's odd, but the recipients of Section 8 welfare are both
tenants and landlords. The landlords couldn't rent without subsidies for
the tenants.

Standard disclaimer- not all section 8 tenants are bad. Some are merely
going through a rough patch, and don't throw wild parties, shack up with
drug dealers, and trash the place. An actual married couple is usually
pretty safe, if both have jobs.

We have a Section 8 rental (more like a Plan 9 from Outer Space rental!) in
our neighborhood that has weekly police visits, monthly social worker visits
and hourly visits from people at 4AM whom I believe are there to buy drugs.
The landlord had the place on the market for 8 months so he was willing to
take anything. Reposession was just a few months away for him.

--
Bobby G.

On 2/2/2011 5:04 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 2/1/2011 3:24 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Steve



Understood, but knowing a place welcomes section 8 drives away other
potential tenants. Most landlords don't TRY to get section 8 tenants
(unless they haven't been burned yet), but if the complex or houses are
starting to show their age, section 8 soon becomes their bread and butter.

Yes, that's true. It's odd, but the recipients of Section 8 welfare are both
tenants and landlords. The landlords couldn't rent without subsidies for
the tenants.

Standard disclaimer- not all section 8 tenants are bad. Some are merely
going through a rough patch, and don't throw wild parties, shack up with
drug dealers, and trash the place. An actual married couple is usually
pretty safe, if both have jobs.

We have a Section 8 rental (more like a Plan 9 from Outer Space rental!) in
our neighborhood that has weekly police visits, monthly social worker visits
and hourly visits from people at 4AM whom I believe are there to buy drugs.
The landlord had the place on the market for 8 months so he was willing to
take anything. Reposession was just a few months away for him.

--
Bobby G.



They have a seldom-used ordinance around here, that after the 3rd drug
or 'disorderly house' bust, the city can padlock the place for a year.
Very questionable constitutionality, but they have done it a few times.
I hear you about the conga-lines of 5-minute visitors. That is why I
moved out of my first apartment in this town. I told the manager why in
no uncertain terms, and that I was tired of seeing cop cars almost every
night. Yes, this is shortly after the complex was opened to section 8.
She said she understood. Place finally got so bad they built a fence and
electric gates around it, and now call themselves a gated community, but
under the fresh siding, the buildings are still pits.

--
aem sends...

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"George" wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

I haven't run the issue to ground, but it seems like something the Feds
would do - screw ME for trying to keep my property in proper order and not
rented out to someone who obviously can't pay their rent without a
government handout. I think that's part of the problem. It's hard to
respect property that someone else is paying to rent for you.

--
Bobby G.

On 2/1/2011 3:24 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

That can buy you a boatload of new problems with the feds.

Steve


I checked into this and there is no requirement to take section 8. Maybe
you are confusing this with various other discrimination laws?

"George" wrote in message
...
On 2/1/2011 9:14 AM, Robert Green wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of
retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt
us.

Sure, and you can turn on the evening entertainment and news program and
see houses burned to the ground.

I know it's a question of percentages but even removing all the newspapers
and TV court shows from the equation, just the experiences of my neighbors
tell me that renting in my area is more perilous than it is in other, less
tenant-friendly jurisdictions. Just how much so is a matter for
investigation.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed
to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a
loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks
with
rags and flooding the place.

Don't rent to section 8 tenants.

Not sure if that's an option, and don't want to be hit with a discrimination
suit if I turn one down.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations?
How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While
I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I would say you are overthinking this. Millions of folks rent properties
without issues. Use common sense and rent to folks you can check out.

These are hard times. It makes people more desperate than they normally
might be. I just want to make sure I have all the information I need to
make a competent decision. If the thread wanders around a bit to the
absurd, then so be it. It wouldn't be Usenet if it didn't! (-:

--
Bobby G.

On Feb 1, 8:14*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of retiring
to. *Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are code
violations. *Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? *How do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? *I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. *While I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

What kind of area is it, what are the people like. I rent apartments
everyday, your area determines what you get. But I demand married
couples, both work, no smoking and refrences. Houses are hard to rent
because of cost.

"ransley" wrote in message
...
On Feb 1, 8:14 am, "Robert Green" wrote:
We've been thinking of renting our current home rather than selling in
this
down market while we rent in some of the places we're thinking of retiring
to. Unfortunately, movies like "Pacific Heights" where a bad tenant who
knows all the tricks of staying in a place without paying rent, haunt us.

Yesterday I saw a 'People's Court' episode where a deadbeat had managed to
stay, rent-free, in a Section 8 rental for three years by using a loophole
that says a tenant can't be evicted from Section 8 housing if there are
code
violations. Every time he was about to get evicted, he just broke
something
to forestall the eviction process, eventually plugging all the sinks with
rags and flooding the place.

How can you drive a bad tenant out from a rental in such situations? How
do
you prevent them from completely trashing the place on their way out? I
know that tenants should be checked out thoroughly beforehand, but even
so,
people can have no record of evil behavior but still turn evil. While I'd
probably NOT rent to any Section 8 tenants, I could easily see someone
losing their job or some other such tragedy and so decide they wanted to
live in my house rent-free for as long as they could get away with it.

I'll entertain all solutions, even extra-legal ones (as long as I can
implement them without getting caught!).

--
Bobby G.

What kind of area is it, what are the people like. I rent apartments
everyday, your area determines what you get. But I demand married
couples, both work, no smoking and refrences. Houses are hard to rent
because of cost.

Working class, small 2 bedroom houses with off-street parking. I agree with
your requirements for prospective tenants. These houses tend to rent
because they are small. The Section 8 rental is getting $2K a month and my
neighbor gets $800 a month for her nicely finished basement with their own
side entrance.

--
Bobby G.