(Doug Miller) wrote in
:

In article , Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote:

-snip-

Your electric and gas meters were inside the house? Yeah,
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....

Pretty common in the northeast in old houses in the cities.

My water meter is still in my basement and I've been reading it every
6 months for 25 years. Supposed to go to electronic, remote read
meters this summer.

I have *never* seen either a gas or electric meter inside a house.
Water meters, sure. Gas and electric? Won't believe it without a
photo.


My place was built in 1912. The gas meter was in the crawspace.
I asked the gas company to move it , and they wanted $300.
A couple years go by and the gas company replaces the main line on the
street and lines to the houses. They moved the meter for free, sweet

My neighbor had the electric meter in her kitchen , right beside the
disconnect switch and fuse box. The next guy who bought the place was
required to upgrade the electric service to 100 amp, so the meter got moved
along with a new panel box.

HeyBub wrote:
Power company came out today and replaced the old mechanical meter with the
new fancy-schmancy one.

Chatting up the meter-man, I learned:

1. The old meters are going to be junked. Not sold to Mexico or Lithuania
like the 'phone company did with their mechanical central office stuff.
We're talking, oh, one million meters in a city of 5.5 million. That's a
pretty big pile.

2. His quota is 60-100 meters swapped out per day.

3. One purpose is to allow the meter to be read from the street.

4. It is alleged I can check my meter on the 'net. We'll see.


The meter will be read from the office computers. No meter readers needed.

--
LSMFT

I haven't spoken to my wife in 18 months.
I don't like to interrupt her.

Your electric and gas meters were inside the house? Yeah,
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....

Pretty common in the northeast in old houses in the cities.

My water meter is still in my basement and I've been reading it every
6 months for 25 years. Supposed to go to electronic, remote read
meters this summer.

I have *never* seen either a gas or electric meter inside a house. Water
meters, sure. Gas and electric? Won't believe it without a photo.


*Many indoor meters are still around in NJ. I grew up in a 1960's house
with an indoor gas meter. I see plenty of indoor electric meters still.
Many single family row houses in urban areas have their meters inside I'm
guessing because there was no place else to put them and the service comes
underground into the basement.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:00:48 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 08:45:24 -0400, "The Henchman"
wrote:

With these smart meters and the proper thermostats, the power company in my
area (Ontario Canada) will give you rebates if you let them cycle down from
their office your air conditioner during peak demand periods. There are
times where our power company actually has to import power from the US (ohio
and michigan) in summer. We use a lot of nuclear power here and Ohio uses a
lot of coal, but Ohio's pollution comes and hangs out over Ontario. So It

I guess that is irony. You should get some big fans to blow it over
Quebec.

Electric fans. That would be more irony.

makes some sense to set-up the meter to avoid importing power during peak
times although I would never sign up for this program, I hope others do.

Also these new meters charge different electrical rates during low demand
periods so if you run your dryer or dishwasher after say 10pm you will pay
50% less for the energy used during this period.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 06:43:29 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Jun 18, 8:05*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Power company came out today and replaced the old mechanical meter with the
new fancy-schmancy one.

Chatting up the meter-man, I learned:

1. The old meters are going to be junked. Not sold to Mexico or Lithuania
like the 'phone company did with their mechanical central office stuff.
We're talking, oh, one million meters in a city of 5.5 million. That's a
pretty big pile.

2. His quota is 60-100 meters swapped out per day.

3. One purpose is to allow the meter to be read from the street.

4. It is alleged I can check my meter on the 'net. We'll see.

They can shut off your meter remotely, even just to save power for
industry during peak hours and when your AC needs it the most. If its

They'll shut off the AC all right if you have one of those things, and
turn down your heat maybe if you have that, but they're not going to
shut off the electricity at the meter to save AC for someone else.

tampered with or the power goes out they know immediatly as the meter
contacts the system about every minute, they dont need meter readers
anymore its all computer generated now.

My nephew wanted to be a meter reader when he grew up. This is going
to hit him hard.

I would rather have the old
meter.

mm wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 09:28:27 -0400, George
wrote:

On 6/19/2010 9:04 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
In , Jim wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote:

-snip-
Your electric and gas meters were inside the house? Yeah,
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....
Pretty common in the northeast in old houses in the cities.

My water meter is still in my basement and I've been reading it every
6 months for 25 years. Supposed to go to electronic, remote read
meters this summer.
I have *never* seen either a gas or electric meter inside a house. Water
meters, sure. Gas and electric? Won't believe it without a photo.
Why not? Extremely common around here especially for multioccupant
buildings and in the older areas.

Becaue the wives used to stay home like they should now. So being
indoors wasn't a problem.


Even if we returned to your 1950s Utopia that never really existed,
there are lots and lots of single people out there, of both genders.

--
aem sends...

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 11:52:31 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/19/2010 8:53 AM, mm wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 09:28:27 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/19/2010 9:04 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
In , Jim wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote:

-snip-

Your electric and gas meters were inside the house? Yeah,
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....

Pretty common in the northeast in old houses in the cities.

My water meter is still in my basement and I've been reading it every
6 months for 25 years. Supposed to go to electronic, remote read
meters this summer.

I have *never* seen either a gas or electric meter inside a house. Water
meters, sure. Gas and electric? Won't believe it without a photo.

Why not? Extremely common around here especially for multioccupant
buildings and in the older areas.

Becaue the wives used to stay home like they should now. So being
indoors wasn't a problem.


So your daddy was actually the meter reading man?

No. My father made sure we lived without electricity until I was
conceived.

(Actually, even in 1939 and 1946, my mother needed a her tubes blown
open with compressed air before she could get pregnant. It's still a
somewhat dangerous treatment, so I wonder how dangerous it was then.)

TDD

Stormin Mormon wrote:
So, the Fed removes money from me by force. Spends it on things I
don't want, and expects me to vote Democrat next time, so we can do
this even more?

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul,
But though we had plenty of money, there was nothing money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said "If you don't work, you die."

Doug Miller wrote:
My water meter is still in my basement and I've been reading it every
6 months for 25 years. Supposed to go to electronic, remote read
meters this summer.

I have *never* seen either a gas or electric meter inside a house.
Water
meters, sure. Gas and electric? Won't believe it without a photo.

Do you really expect people to go outside to put a quarter in the meter?

"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

So, the Fed removes money from me by force. Spends it on things I
don't want, and expects me to vote Democrat next time, so we can do
this even more?

Democrat, Republican, or Federalist. Democracy, Socialist, Communist, feudal.
That is what government does. -- Doug

(Doug Miller) wrote:


I have *never* seen either a gas or electric meter inside a house. Water
meters, sure. Gas and electric? Won't believe it without a photo.

I don't have a photo, but the house I grew up in outside Detroit had the gas
meter inside ca. 1960. My dad's house in the same area did up until we sold it
a couple of years ago. They added a remote outside gauge on it 10 or 15 years
ago. -- Doug

wrote:

Hope you all enjoy those fancy new meters. They are brought to you
courtesy of the fed govt and $3Bil more of our deficit.

Around here, Dallas, Texas, we get to pay $2.19 a month for 11 years to pay for
those meters. Aren't we blessed. -- Doug

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 6/19/2010 9:11 AM, mm wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:55:10 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Alabama power had or has these evil radio controlled gadgets that were
installed on the AC condenser of folks who singed up for a reduced rate
or credit. During peak demand, the AC could be turned off by the power
company. I haven't seen one for a while and always disconnected them
when someone called for service on an AC which wasn't cooling.

TDD


I'm not surrendering control of my A/C or any appliance to some quasi
government body (but I hope others do) but the code is here that there has
to be an outside electrical disconnect for the A/C. The radio
unit/thermostat gets installed in this box.

Apparently in Ontario they can't override your settings by more than 2 C
which is 5 F and it can only be done during weekday "working" hours. Never
at evening nights or weeknights. I still wouldn't sign up but the owners
before did and I had the ultity remove the switch when they did a wire
search for me.

On 6/19/2010 12:04, TheHack wrote:

My place was built in 1912. The gas meter was in the crawspace.
I asked the gas company to move it , and they wanted $300.
A couple years go by and the gas company replaces the main line on the
street and lines to the houses. They moved the meter for free, sweet

Sometimes you can luck out when it's convenient for the utility to make
a mutually beneficial infrastructure upgrade.

My neighbor had the electric meter in her kitchen , right beside the
disconnect switch and fuse box. The next guy who bought the place was
required to upgrade the electric service to 100 amp, so the meter got moved
along with a new panel box.

This sounds like a standard arrangement for houses without basements
using K&T wiring. Service upgrades calling for a new meter often have
it placed outside for purposes of reading (made obsolete by smart
meters) and emergency service disconnect.

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:00:48 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 08:45:24 -0400, "The Henchman"
wrote:

With these smart meters and the proper thermostats, the power company in
my
area (Ontario Canada) will give you rebates if you let them cycle down
from
their office your air conditioner during peak demand periods. There are
times where our power company actually has to import power from the US
(ohio
and michigan) in summer. We use a lot of nuclear power here and Ohio
uses a
lot of coal, but Ohio's pollution comes and hangs out over Ontario. So
It

I guess that is irony. You should get some big fans to blow it over
Quebec.

Electric fans. That would be more irony.

Quebec won't sell us cheap power. They prefer to sell to New York City and
Boston at 7 times the price. Which is good. It means we subsidise that
province less. Selling overpriced electricity is about the only thing
Quebec does right.

Problem is when you buy cheap coal power from Ohio, you have to take the
smog with it.

Doug Miller wrote:
My water meter is still in my basement and I've been reading it every
6 months for 25 years. Supposed to go to electronic, remote read
meters this summer.

I have *never* seen either a gas or electric meter inside a house.
Water
meters, sure. Gas and electric? Won't believe it without a photo.

I've since moved away from that house so I cannot take a picture, but my
last house had the gas meter inside. I suggest you travel to Philadelphia
where you will see thousands of homes built that way. The gas meter reader
used to come every month knocking on the back door. Natural gas was very
common in Philly. My meter was located in the basement at the front of the
house. Gas main is in the street. Some newer (1970's) houses were built
with a glass block in the foundation and the meter behind it. That way the
meter reader did not have to go inside, he could just look through the
window.

If you need an address, I can tell you thousands of them. Entire streets
full of row houses, all with meters inside. Some were build in the 1910
era, my house was built in 1948. Many others from many other years.

As for electric meters, I don't know of any in a house, but I do know of
some inside industrial buildings. I can send you photos of that come Monday
when I go back to work. I read them on the 25th of every month for our
purposes, the electric company reads them at some other time.

In article , "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
My water meter is still in my basement and I've been reading it every
6 months for 25 years. Supposed to go to electronic, remote read
meters this summer.

I have *never* seen either a gas or electric meter inside a house.
Water
meters, sure. Gas and electric? Won't believe it without a photo.

I've since moved away from that house so I cannot take a picture, but my
last house had the gas meter inside. I suggest you travel to Philadelphia
where you will see thousands of homes built that way. The gas meter reader
used to come every month knocking on the back door. Natural gas was very
common in Philly. My meter was located in the basement at the front of the
house. Gas main is in the street. Some newer (1970's) houses were built
with a glass block in the foundation and the meter behind it. That way the
meter reader did not have to go inside, he could just look through the
window.

I'll be darned. Learn something new every day.

If you need an address, I can tell you thousands of them. Entire streets
full of row houses, all with meters inside. Some were build in the 1910
era, my house was built in 1948. Many others from many other years.

As for electric meters, I don't know of any in a house, but I do know of
some inside industrial buildings. I can send you photos of that come Monday
when I go back to work. I read them on the 25th of every month for our
purposes, the electric company reads them at some other time.

Photo not needed there, Ed. I've seen indoor electric meters in
commercial/industrial installations myself. Never in a house, though.

(rates are/will be tiered
so that it will be cheaper at curtain times of the day).

Yeah, that was the pitch given by the politicians, it sounded pie in the
sky, and in this area has proven to be so. Yes, rates are tiered, and some
times they are cheaper than other times, but never cheaper than they were
under the old flat rate. Possibly the midnight to 6:00 am may get close to
the old all day rate, but watch out for the supper hour rate, you may be
tempted to shut all power off at that time.

When my parents moved house in 1965, we lived there till 1975. I think
both meters were indoors. The "new house", also in a Rochester NY
suburb, has gas and electric meters indoors. Both in the cellar. Many
of the houses near me have meters in the cellar.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Doug Miller"
wrote in message ...

Photo not needed there, Ed. I've seen indoor electric meters in
commercial/industrial installations myself. Never in a house, though.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:45:29 -0400, "The Henchman"
wrote:



"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 6/19/2010 9:11 AM, mm wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:55:10 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Alabama power had or has these evil radio controlled gadgets that were
installed on the AC condenser of folks who singed up for a reduced rate
or credit. During peak demand, the AC could be turned off by the power
company. I haven't seen one for a while and always disconnected them
when someone called for service on an AC which wasn't cooling.

TDD


I'm not surrendering control of my A/C or any appliance to some quasi
government body (but I hope others do) but the code is here that there has
to be an outside electrical disconnect for the A/C. The radio
unit/thermostat gets installed in this box.

Baltimore County, I have, I think there has to be an outsdie
disconnect, but they wired the switch into the compressor wiring. I
guess that enables them to switch off only the low voltage control
circuit.

Apparently in Ontario they can't override your settings by more than 2 C
which is 5 F and it can only be done during weekday "working" hours. Never
at evening nights or weeknights. I still wouldn't sign up but the owners
before did and I had the ultity remove the switch when they did a wire
search for me.

Apparently here they almost never use the things, or so they say, but
they are planning for occasions when they will. And when they do,
they're supposed to just do a rolling turn off of AC, a half hour??
and then on again; and on to some other people. I don't know if they
correlate that with a numeric temperature change or not.

"Douglas Johnson" wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

So, the Fed removes money from me by force. Spends it on things I
don't want, and expects me to vote Democrat next time, so we can do
this even more?

Democrat, Republican, or Federalist. Democracy, Socialist, Communist,
feudal.
That is what government does. -- Doug

Government started out as a banding together for common defense. Very
useful when the Vikings pull into your seaside village in their longboats.
I took an econ. course once that described the rise of government and it's
clear the shift occurred when instead of having to fight for your lord for X
months of the year, you could pay off your debt of service with provisions
or gold.

Once taxation began, it tended to ratchet up until rebellions happened. I
can't recall a society that didn't snowball. When the revenue starts
flowing, it all gets spent and the temptation is to raise taxes, not cut
expenditures in almost every society that ever collected taxes. The US is a
perfect example - we were born out of a hatred of increasing English
taxation.

Smart meters have been shown to have an enormous potential to cut down on
electrical consumption. But that feature, I assume, is at the bottom of the
list for the companies implementing them. To them, it represents a cost
savings (fewer meter readers) and a way to exert greater control remotely.

--
Bobby G.

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
(Doug Miller) wrote:

-snip-

Your electric and gas meters were inside the house? Yeah,
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....

Pretty common in the northeast in old houses in the cities.

I've lived in houses in Maryland (built 1971) that have had the meters
inside (Mom HATED that) and in olders houses (built 1941) that have all 3
meters (water, gas, electric) on the outside. Once I lived in a place
(D.C.) that had no electric meter at all. The previous occupants had done
their own hookup to the pole and since it was a second floor apartment, no
one ever caught on while I lived there. I learned later that the utilities
can bill you for usage anyway based on estimated use if the meter is bad or
missing entirely.

My water meter is still in my basement and I've been reading it every
6 months for 25 years. Supposed to go to electronic, remote read
meters this summer.

I imagine the big push is because of liability issues first and workforce
reduction second. It's just another mechanism that causes jobs to
evaporate. I'll be interested in seeing if employment rates ever really
recover in the US. I don't see how that will occur given that all the
current trends are working against it.

I was pleased to read that for the first time, US cars are getting higher
marks for initial quality than foreign ones.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...for-first-tim/

"For the first time ever, J.D. Power and Associates has rated U.S.-brand
vehicles higher than import brands in its prestigious annual Initial Quality
Study. The study - now in its 24th year - is taken as the standard by which
foreign and domestic cars are judged in the auto industry and is frequently
cited in ads."

It only took half a century for us to catch up. There's still hope left.

I'll bet Toyota's runaway cars had something to do with it. BP's troubles
seem to have helped take the heat off Toyoto. I shudder to think what will
take the heat off BP in the same way.

--
Bobby G.

"aemeijers" wrote in message
stuff snipped

Even if we returned to your 1950s Utopia that never really existed,
there are lots and lots of single people out there, of both genders.

I think there are officially more than two genders now. I suspect that's
why many are living solo - can't find a matching gender to hook up with.

--
Bobby G.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I saw a retired power guy had a meter set up on a wooden base. He had
a plug and socket on it, and was using the meter as a Kill O Watt.

Kewl. Unlike the Kill O Watt, it won't lose the accumulated readings if the
power fails. I think I'll go look for one on Ebay.

--
Bobby G.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 21:14:17 -0500, Douglas Johnson
wrote:

wrote:

Hope you all enjoy those fancy new meters. They are brought to you
courtesy of the fed govt and $3Bil more of our deficit.

Around here, Dallas, Texas, we get to pay $2.19 a month for 11 years to pay for
those meters. Aren't we blessed. -- Doug

A couple days ago, the Public Service Commission in Maryland refused
some electric company permission to put in meters that would enalbe
billing by time-of-day.

The electric co. spokesman said that each homeowner would save 1400
over the life of, or some period of time, and the meters were only 200
dollar so it was a good deal. So I guess the customer would have to
pay the 200. That must be why the PSC said no.

We do have electronic meters that be read from their office, but I can
see how this would have to be fancier.

On Jun 20, 11:13*pm, "EXT" wrote:
(rates are/will be tiered

so that it will be cheaper at curtain times of the day).

Yeah, that was the pitch given by the politicians, it sounded pie in the
sky, and in this area has proven to be so. Yes, rates are tiered, and some
times they are cheaper than other times, but never cheaper than they were
under the old flat rate. Possibly the midnight to 6:00 am may get close to
the old all day rate, but watch out for the supper hour rate, you may be
tempted to shut all power off at that time.

We had the world's first nuclear power. At that time, politicians
told us that in a few years electricity would be free & therefore no
meter would be needed. Hah!
All our meters were indoors up 'til the 1970's. Now they are mostly
in a cabinet outside. The electricity/gas company encourages people
to read their own meters & report in by internet or telephone. You put
your reading in using the phone keypad. Smart meters are now being
installed.....
Unclear excactly how smart they will be.

The Daring Dufas posted for all of us...


On 6/19/2010 8:50 AM, mm wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 23:57:36 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/18/2010 8:05 PM, HeyBub wrote:
Power company came out today and replaced the old mechanical meter with the
new fancy-schmancy one.

Chatting up the meter-man, I learned:

1. The old meters are going to be junked. Not sold to Mexico or Lithuania
like the 'phone company did with their mechanical central office stuff.
We're talking, oh, one million meters in a city of 5.5 million. That's a
pretty big pile.

2. His quota is 60-100 meters swapped out per day.

3. One purpose is to allow the meter to be read from the street.

4. It is alleged I can check my meter on the 'net. We'll see.

You can just walk outside and check your meter.

I view Smart Meters with the same suspicion that I have for
OnStar. Perhaps I'm just paranoid? Aluminum foil hats don't
work, it's already been tried.

Remember when the drunk guy hit a tree with his car; then he went to
another bar to relax, and On-star called the police.

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

TDD


Imagine some government busybody decides you're using too much
electricity and gets a warrant to search your home for anything
incriminating. It already goes on. You fail to pay a parking

The utilities report excessive usage to the police who then check for pot
growing which uses a lot of power.

TDD



--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 23:58:59 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"aemeijers" wrote in message
stuff snipped

Even if we returned to your 1950s Utopia that never really existed,
there are lots and lots of single people out there, of both genders.

I think there are officially more than two genders now. I suspect that's
why many are living solo - can't find a matching gender to hook up with.

BTW, "gender" is a characteristic of language, and IIRC, some have as
many as seven.

In article , Sam E wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 23:58:59 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"aemeijers" wrote in message
stuff snipped

Even if we returned to your 1950s Utopia that never really existed,
there are lots and lots of single people out there, of both genders.

I think there are officially more than two genders now. I suspect that's
why many are living solo - can't find a matching gender to hook up with.

BTW, "gender" is a characteristic of language, and IIRC, some have as
many as seven.

You're thinking of cases (e.g. nominative, predicative, possessive, etc.).
Russian, Latin, and Polish have seven cases, German four, English three.

No language I'm aware of has more than three genders: masculine, feminine, and
neuter.

Doug Miller wrote:

BTW, "gender" is a characteristic of language, and IIRC, some have as
many as seven.

You're thinking of cases (e.g. nominative, predicative, possessive,
etc.).
Russian, Latin, and Polish have seven cases, German four, English
three.

No language I'm aware of has more than three genders: masculine,
feminine, and
neuter.

You haven't been studying U.S. bureaucratize.

We have (at least) male, female, gay, lesbian, and various incarnations of
"transgender."

On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 03:19:33 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Sam E wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 23:58:59 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"aemeijers" wrote in message
stuff snipped

Even if we returned to your 1950s Utopia that never really existed,
there are lots and lots of single people out there, of both genders.

I think there are officially more than two genders now. I suspect that's
why many are living solo - can't find a matching gender to hook up with.

BTW, "gender" is a characteristic of language, and IIRC, some have as
many as seven.

You're thinking of cases (e.g. nominative, predicative, possessive, etc.).
Russian, Latin, and Polish have seven cases, German four, English three.

No language I'm aware of has more than three genders: masculine, feminine, and
neuter.

I forgot where I first heard about that, but searching the internet
quickly found Polish at
http://claritaslux.com/blog/the-hard...uage-to-learn/ .

On Jun 19, 12:03*am, Bob wrote:
On 6/18/2010 18:05, HeyBub wrote:

Power company came out today and replaced the old mechanical meter with the
new fancy-schmancy one.

Chatting up the meter-man, I learned:

1. The old meters are going to be junked. Not sold to Mexico or Lithuania
like the 'phone company did with their mechanical central office stuff.
We're talking, oh, one million meters in a city of 5.5 million. That's a
pretty big pile.

There's not much of a market for such labor-intensive stuff.

2. His quota is 60-100 meters swapped out per day.

Yup. *Just break the seal, take the old meter reading, pop out the old
meter, pop the new one in, seal it, and scan the bar code. *Service is
interrupted just long enough to cause refrigerators to overload.

3. One purpose is to allow the meter to be read from the street.

Or by radio or carrier-current. *That's the primary motivator for changing
them. *Service can also be controlled remotely -- they can easily cut
you off for non-payment.

4. It is alleged I can check my meter on the 'net. We'll see.

True, depending on the utility. *It also allows for time-of-day pricing..
* See http://www.pge.com/smartmeter for the spin from a utility that
has been the source of considerable public criticism over smart meter
implementation.

Cheaper, late night pricing could be nice!

Couple of minor points; our meter reader says he's supposed, at the
moment to be able to sit in his car out in thstreet and read meter
remotely. Doesn't always work and he has to walk to nearer the meter!

Secondly; sending the info via the electric power lines is being
banned in some countries because it can cause serious interference to
radio communications. The effect will vary from area to area depending
on the amount of radio broadcasting, off the air TV etc. But some
years ago a Civil Defense exercise in Austria had to be cancelled
because 'Power Line carrier/digital' signals disrupted the radio
signals to ambulances! For meters the alternatives may be the inter-
net or your phone line (if you still have one!).

In article , Sam E wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 03:19:33 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Sam E
wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 23:58:59 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"aemeijers" wrote in message
stuff snipped

Even if we returned to your 1950s Utopia that never really existed,
there are lots and lots of single people out there, of both genders.

I think there are officially more than two genders now. I suspect that's
why many are living solo - can't find a matching gender to hook up with.

BTW, "gender" is a characteristic of language, and IIRC, some have as
many as seven.

You're thinking of cases (e.g. nominative, predicative, possessive, etc.).
Russian, Latin, and Polish have seven cases, German four, English three.

No language I'm aware of has more than three genders: masculine, feminine, and
neuter.

I forgot where I first heard about that, but searching the internet
quickly found Polish at
http://claritaslux.com/blog/the-hard...uage-to-learn/ .

It's incorrect in at least one major respect: there are *not* seven genders in
Polish as claimed. Only three. The masculine gender is further subdivided,
making distinctions between persons and animate and inanimate objects, making
five gender "classes" in all, but only three genders -- not seven.

The article also refers to Polish pronunciation as "very difficult"; I
disagree. Polish pronunciation and spelling follow regular rules, and I found
it much easier to learn to pronounce Polish correctly than French.

On 6/29/2010 7:39 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

BTW, "gender" is a characteristic of language, and IIRC, some have as
many as seven.

You're thinking of cases (e.g. nominative, predicative, possessive,
etc.).
Russian, Latin, and Polish have seven cases, German four, English
three.

No language I'm aware of has more than three genders: masculine,
feminine, and
neuter.

You haven't been studying U.S. bureaucratize.

We have (at least) male, female, gay, lesbian, and various incarnations of
"transgender."



Is there a politically correct bureaucratize description for
"pecker head"? :-)

TDD

(Doug Miller) writes:
In article , Jim Elbrecht wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote:

-snip-

Your electric and gas meters were inside the house? Yeah,
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....

Pretty common in the northeast in old houses in the cities.

My water meter is still in my basement and I've been reading it every
6 months for 25 years. Supposed to go to electronic, remote read
meters this summer.

I have *never* seen either a gas or electric meter inside a house. Water
meters, sure. Gas and electric? Won't believe it without a photo.

My gas meter is inside - pipe comes in underground. Just about all
installations are like this in the northeast.

Water is also all inside.

Electricity depends. Older installations are inside. Newer ones are
typically outside.

On Jul 13, 10:19*am, blueman wrote:
(Doug Miller) writes:
In article , Jim Elbrecht wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote:

-snip-

Your electric and gas meters were inside the house? Yeah,
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....

Pretty common in the northeast in old houses in the cities. * *

My water meter is still in my basement and I've been reading it every
6 months for 25 years. * * *Supposed to go to electronic, remote read
meters this summer.

I have *never* seen either a gas or electric meter inside a house. Water
meters, sure. Gas and electric? Won't believe it without a photo.

My gas meter is inside - pipe comes in underground. Just about all
installations are like this in the northeast.

Not true. Our gas meters were outside.

Water is also all inside.

Yes, with a remote digital display outside.

Electricity depends. Older installations are inside. Newer ones are
typically outside.

Where "newer" = fifty years.

On Jun 19, 7:44*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 6/19/2010 12:58 AM, Proteus IIV wrote:





On Jun 19, 12:57 am, The Daring Dufasthe-daring-
*wrote:
On 6/18/2010 8:05 PM, HeyBub wrote:

Power company came out today and replaced the old mechanical meter with the
new fancy-schmancy one.

Chatting up the meter-man, I learned:

1. The old meters are going to be junked. Not sold to Mexico or Lithuania
like the 'phone company did with their mechanical central office stuff.
We're talking, oh, one million meters in a city of 5.5 million. That's a
pretty big pile.

2. His quota is 60-100 meters swapped out per day.

3. One purpose is to allow the meter to be read from the street.

4. It is alleged I can check my meter on the 'net. We'll see.

I view Smart Meters with the same suspicion that I have for
OnStar. Perhaps I'm just paranoid? Aluminum foil hats don't
work, it's already been tried.

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

TDD

YES
BUT HAVE YOU TRIED GROUNDING YOUR TIN HAT
USE A 14awg STRANDED CONDUCTOR WHEN YOU USE IT [:-)]

I AM PROTEUS

RAM hats work much better and can be quite stylish too!
My favorites are EM shield undergarments.

http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html

TDD

THAT'S NICE I SEE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT EQUIPMENT
BUT YOU MSSED THE WHOLE POINT


I AM PROTEUS

On 7/13/2010 1:40 PM, Proteus IIV wrote:
On Jun 19, 7:44 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 6/19/2010 12:58 AM, Proteus IIV wrote:





On Jun 19, 12:57 am, The Daring Dufasthe-daring-
wrote:
On 6/18/2010 8:05 PM, HeyBub wrote:

Power company came out today and replaced the old mechanical meter with the
new fancy-schmancy one.

Chatting up the meter-man, I learned:

1. The old meters are going to be junked. Not sold to Mexico or Lithuania
like the 'phone company did with their mechanical central office stuff.
We're talking, oh, one million meters in a city of 5.5 million. That's a
pretty big pile.

2. His quota is 60-100 meters swapped out per day.

3. One purpose is to allow the meter to be read from the street.

4. It is alleged I can check my meter on the 'net. We'll see.

I view Smart Meters with the same suspicion that I have for
OnStar. Perhaps I'm just paranoid? Aluminum foil hats don't
work, it's already been tried.

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

TDD

YES
BUT HAVE YOU TRIED GROUNDING YOUR TIN HAT
USE A 14awg STRANDED CONDUCTOR WHEN YOU USE IT [:-)]

I AM PROTEUS

RAM hats work much better and can be quite stylish too!
My favorites are EM shield undergarments.

http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html

TDD

THAT'S NICE I SEE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT EQUIPMENT
BUT YOU MSSED THE WHOLE POINT


I AM PROTOZOA

Ah! A Protozoa, I've never carried on a conversation with an acellular
creature before. 8-)

TDD

On Jul 13, 8:04*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 7/13/2010 1:40 PM, Proteus IIV wrote:





On Jun 19, 7:44 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 6/19/2010 12:58 AM, Proteus IIV wrote:

On Jun 19, 12:57 am, The Daring Dufasthe-daring-
* *wrote:
On 6/18/2010 8:05 PM, HeyBub wrote:

Power company came out today and replaced the old mechanical meter with the
new fancy-schmancy one.

Chatting up the meter-man, I learned:

1. The old meters are going to be junked. Not sold to Mexico or Lithuania
like the 'phone company did with their mechanical central office stuff.
We're talking, oh, one million meters in a city of 5.5 million. That's a
pretty big pile.

2. His quota is 60-100 meters swapped out per day.

3. One purpose is to allow the meter to be read from the street.

4. It is alleged I can check my meter on the 'net. We'll see.

I view Smart Meters with the same suspicion that I have for
OnStar. Perhaps I'm just paranoid? Aluminum foil hats don't
work, it's already been tried.

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

TDD

YES
BUT HAVE YOU TRIED GROUNDING YOUR TIN HAT
USE A 14awg STRANDED CONDUCTOR WHEN YOU USE IT [:-)]

I AM PROTEUS

RAM hats work much better and can be quite stylish too!
My favorites are EM shield undergarments.

http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html

TDD

THAT'S NICE *I SEE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT EQUIPMENT
BUT YOU MSSED THE WHOLE POINT

I AM PROTOZOA

Ah! A Protozoa, I've never carried on a conversation with an acellular
creature before. 8-)

TDD

I HAVE NEVER GOT A RESPONSE FROM A DIRTBAG BEFORE [:-o]

I AM PROTEUS

On 7/16/2010 6:07 AM, Proteus IIV wrote:
On Jul 13, 8:04 pm, The Daring
wrote:
On 7/13/2010 1:40 PM, Proteus IIV wrote:





On Jun 19, 7:44 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 6/19/2010 12:58 AM, Proteus IIV wrote:

On Jun 19, 12:57 am, The Daring Dufasthe-daring-
wrote:
On 6/18/2010 8:05 PM, HeyBub wrote:

Power company came out today and replaced the old mechanical meter with the
new fancy-schmancy one.

Chatting up the meter-man, I learned:

1. The old meters are going to be junked. Not sold to Mexico or Lithuania
like the 'phone company did with their mechanical central office stuff.
We're talking, oh, one million meters in a city of 5.5 million. That's a
pretty big pile.

2. His quota is 60-100 meters swapped out per day.

3. One purpose is to allow the meter to be read from the street.

4. It is alleged I can check my meter on the 'net. We'll see.

I view Smart Meters with the same suspicion that I have for
OnStar. Perhaps I'm just paranoid? Aluminum foil hats don't
work, it's already been tried.

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

TDD

YES
BUT HAVE YOU TRIED GROUNDING YOUR TIN HAT
USE A 14awg STRANDED CONDUCTOR WHEN YOU USE IT [:-)]

I AM PROTEUS

RAM hats work much better and can be quite stylish too!
My favorites are EM shield undergarments.

http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html

TDD

THAT'S NICE I SEE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT EQUIPMENT
BUT YOU MSSED THE WHOLE POINT

I AM PROTOZOA

Ah! A Protozoa, I've never carried on a conversation with an acellular
creature before. 8-)

TDD

I HAVE NEVER GOT A RESPONSE FROM A DIRTBAG BEFORE [:-o]

I AM PROTOZOA

I am not a dirt-bag, I am a bag of mostly water, the outer space
alien told me so. 9-)

TDD