On 14/05/2010 16:46, LouB wrote:
cancel the gym subscription - you probably never even went once

We get a free one, and I still don't go much.

Go!

Well, use the place at least to work out your relationship with food,
stress and energy levels. It will break overeating habits and save you
lots.

--
Adrian C

On Fri, 14 May 2010 16:19:18 +0100, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 14/05/10 13:06, brooklyn1 wrote:

Launder and reuse condoms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDaFOuuQOGk



--
Tim Watts

I would guess not having kids has saved me a fortune.


Is that because you took care when laundering and reusing condoms?

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 May 2010 16:19:18 +0100, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 14/05/10 13:06, brooklyn1 wrote:

Launder and reuse condoms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDaFOuuQOGk



--
Tim Watts

I would guess not having kids has saved me a fortune.


Is that because you took care when laundering and reusing condoms?

I just took care

No CSA payments for me.

Adam

On May 14, 1:51�pm, Frank wrote:
On 5/13/2010 10:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:





"Eric" wrote in message
...
What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
practice, relating
to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
it's for
food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.

Every evening about 5 o'clock my wife and I take a walk in the
neighborhood. If we see someone cooking or about to sit down for dinner,
we knock on the door to visit. Most times, we get an invitation to join
them. That has cut our food bill by 60%. You'd also be amazed at how you
can slip into those big summer picnics people have. Everyone smiles and
chats, no one has the courage to ask "what the hell are you doing here?"
If the food is good and lots of it, stay until they start cleaning up
and you will even get a platter of leftovers to take home. HINT: Never
be the last to leave though.

To reduce the laundry and all the costs associated with it, we no longer
wear underwear. That has cut the laundry by 30%, but you do have to use
care when wearing light colored slacks as they can get stained easily in
the back.

Used to et a $10 haircut every three weeks or about 17 times a year.
Shaving my head put $170 a year in my pocket. I'm having less success
getting my wife to do the same though.

We no longer have cable TV. A $25 investment in binoculars allows me to
watch the neighbor's TV across the street. In the summer, I can even get
some sound as they open the windows.

A true one, that I heard, was family washes cars when it rains. �They go
out in raincoats, rinse off dirt with bucket of soapy water and let rain
do the rest.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I used to wash the dog that way. It didn't like it one bit!

On May 14, 2:44�am, Eric wrote:
What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
practice, relating
to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
it's for
food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.

Grow your own vegetables. Keep chickens and feed them on food waste.
Or even a pig.

Eric wrote:
What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
practice, relating
to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
it's for
food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.

I get most of the gadgets, electronics, tools, etc that I need either free or
cheap through craigslist and freecycle. Sometimes I have to repair things, but
most of the repairs are simple mechanical things.

Bruce wrote:
On Fri, 14 May 2010 16:19:18 +0100, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 14/05/10 13:06, brooklyn1 wrote:

Launder and reuse condoms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDaFOuuQOGk



--
Tim Watts

I would guess not having kids has saved me a fortune.


Is that because you took care when laundering and reusing condoms?

After awhile, you just don't do thing that get them dirty, because you hate the
laundry?

Frank wrote in news:hsjh00$pti$1
@news.eternal-september.org:

A true one, that I heard, was family washes cars when it rains. They go
out in raincoats, rinse off dirt with bucket of soapy water and let rain
do the rest.


I don't wash the car. People stay away from my driving anyway.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han wrote:
Frank wrote in news:hsjh00$pti$1
@news.eternal-september.org:

A true one, that I heard, was family washes cars when it rains. They go
out in raincoats, rinse off dirt with bucket of soapy water and let rain
do the rest.


I don't wash the car. People stay away from my driving anyway.


Hey Han, where have you been? I haven't seen you post for a while.
I hope life is treating you well.

TDD

I am droppind Dish Network since they raised the extra receiver fee
from $5 bucks a month to $17 a month and added some other fees in
february and now raised basic service and premium prices too.

I am getting a TIVO and going to download shows on netflix. and use
the TIVO OTA capability.May buy DVDs of favorite shows. If thats not
enough I will get cable

Its sad I am a dish subscriber for over 13 years, sold it as a dealer
for awhile, and now they start gouging on prices. In this economy 12
buck per extra receiver fee is totally unacceptable......

wrote:
I am droppind Dish Network since they raised the extra receiver fee
from $5 bucks a month to $17 a month and added some other fees in
february and now raised basic service and premium prices too.

I am getting a TIVO and going to download shows on netflix. and use
the TIVO OTA capability.May buy DVDs of favorite shows. If thats not
enough I will get cable

Its sad I am a dish subscriber for over 13 years, sold it as a dealer
for awhile, and now they start gouging on prices. In this economy 12
buck per extra receiver fee is totally unacceptable......

I do most of my TV and movie watching online. In fact, I don't recall
the last time I went to a movie theater, it's been that long ago. I
get my TV and movie fix from several sites.

http://www.hulu.com/

http://www.fastpasstv.com/

http://www.ninjavideo.net/

There are many more sites but these three seem to work the best for me.

TDD

On Fri, 14 May 2010 23:14:14 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
I am droppind Dish Network since they raised the extra receiver fee
from $5 bucks a month to $17 a month and added some other fees in
february and now raised basic service and premium prices too.

I am told that if you have the reciever connected to a phone jack you
don't have to pay for extra receivers. You should ask them.


I am getting a TIVO and going to download shows on netflix. and use
the TIVO OTA capability.May buy DVDs of favorite shows. If thats not
enough I will get cable

Its sad I am a dish subscriber for over 13 years, sold it as a dealer
for awhile, and now they start gouging on prices. In this economy 12
buck per extra receiver fee is totally unacceptable......

I do most of my TV and movie watching online. In fact, I don't recall
the last time I went to a movie theater, it's been that long ago. I
get my TV and movie fix from several sites.

http://www.hulu.com/

http://www.fastpasstv.com/

http://www.ninjavideo.net/

There are many more sites but these three seem to work the best for me.

TDD

You should look at one of these.

http://www.wdtvlive.com/

On Fri, 14 May 2010 07:16:02 -0700 (PDT), Food Snob®
wrote:

On May 13, 10:44*pm, Jeßus wrote:
On Thu, 13 May 2010 20:35:06 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe





wrote:
On May 13, 10:28*pm, Jeßus wrote:
On Thu, 13 May 2010 22:08:39 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

Eric wrote:
What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
practice, relating to how you make your money go much further
than it used to, whether it's for food - weekly living expenses,
home and financial investment, etc.

One word: *road kill.

Hey, I'm not above picking up roadkill sometimes

Makes great Hillbilly Stew!

Just call me Cletus

It sounds better if you say, ''Well slap my ass and call me Cletus.''

--Bryan, Ozark Hillbilly

Noted for future reference Bryan. Hyuk!

The Daring Dufas wrote:
wrote:
I am droppind Dish Network since they raised the extra receiver fee
from $5 bucks a month to $17 a month and added some other fees in
february and now raised basic service and premium prices too.

I am getting a TIVO and going to download shows on netflix. and use
the TIVO OTA capability.May buy DVDs of favorite shows. If thats not
enough I will get cable

Its sad I am a dish subscriber for over 13 years, sold it as a dealer
for awhile, and now they start gouging on prices. In this economy 12
buck per extra receiver fee is totally unacceptable......

I do most of my TV and movie watching online. In fact, I don't recall
the last time I went to a movie theater, it's been that long ago. I
get my TV and movie fix from several sites.

http://www.hulu.com/

http://www.fastpasstv.com/

http://www.ninjavideo.net/

There are many more sites but these three seem to work the best for me.

TDD

My dish subscription is cheaper than a high-speed connection would be,
in this neighborhood. At 384k, even a 2-minute youtube video is painful
to watch. I wish Discovery and History were available OTA. I'd miss a
few of the other non-OTA channels, but those 2 are probably a third of
my viewing time.

--
aem sends...

aemeijers wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
wrote:
I am droppind Dish Network since they raised the extra receiver fee
from $5 bucks a month to $17 a month and added some other fees in
february and now raised basic service and premium prices too.

I am getting a TIVO and going to download shows on netflix. and use
the TIVO OTA capability.May buy DVDs of favorite shows. If thats not
enough I will get cable

Its sad I am a dish subscriber for over 13 years, sold it as a dealer
for awhile, and now they start gouging on prices. In this economy 12
buck per extra receiver fee is totally unacceptable......

I do most of my TV and movie watching online. In fact, I don't recall
the last time I went to a movie theater, it's been that long ago. I
get my TV and movie fix from several sites.

http://www.hulu.com/

http://www.fastpasstv.com/

http://www.ninjavideo.net/

There are many more sites but these three seem to work the best for me.

TDD

My dish subscription is cheaper than a high-speed connection would be,
in this neighborhood. At 384k, even a 2-minute youtube video is painful
to watch. I wish Discovery and History were available OTA. I'd miss a
few of the other non-OTA channels, but those 2 are probably a third of
my viewing time.


Well, heck, I often forget that everyone doesn't have 10meg cable. The
interesting thing about ninjavideo is that if you set up your connection
correctly, it saves the video to your hard drive and you can burn it to
a DVD then put it in your collection. Believe me, you can fill up a hard
drive in a hurry watching movies online. Sometimes I'll start the movie
online, turn off the monitor and come back later then watch it from the
hard drive.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

Han wrote:
Frank wrote in news:hsjh00$pti$1
@news.eternal-september.org:

A true one, that I heard, was family washes cars when it rains.
They go out in raincoats, rinse off dirt with bucket of soapy water
and let rain do the rest.


I don't wash the car. People stay away from my driving anyway.


Hey Han, where have you been? I haven't seen you post for a while.
I hope life is treating you well.

TDD

Life's fine! Working hard to train the techs who need to run the assays
you are paying for. Hoping to find some solutions for stroke ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Eric wrote:
What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
practice, relating
to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
it's for
food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.

Unplug clocks when not in use (or remove batteries).

On 5/13/2010 9:44 PM, Eric wrote:
What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
practice, relating
to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
it's for
food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.


Gamble as heavy as possible like you can never loose or maybe buy
everything you can't afford and the nice folks in the Congress will take
money away from others to help you out..

On May 15, 1:21�am, Han wrote:
Frank wrote in news:hsjh00$pti$1
@news.eternal-september.org:

A true one, that I heard, was family washes cars when it rains. �They go
out in raincoats, rinse off dirt with bucket of soapy water and let rain
do the rest.

I don't wash the car. �People stay away from my driving anyway.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

My theory exactly!

Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

Han wrote:
Frank wrote in news:hsjh00$pti$1
@news.eternal-september.org:

A true one, that I heard, was family washes cars when it rains.
They go out in raincoats, rinse off dirt with bucket of soapy water
and let rain do the rest.

I don't wash the car. People stay away from my driving anyway.

Hey Han, where have you been? I haven't seen you post for a while.
I hope life is treating you well.

TDD

Life's fine! Working hard to train the techs who need to run the assays
you are paying for. Hoping to find some solutions for stroke ...


A cryptic enough reply.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

Hey Han, where have you been? I haven't seen you post for a while.
I hope life is treating you well.

TDD

Life's fine! Working hard to train the techs who need to run the
assays you are paying for. Hoping to find some solutions for stroke
...


A cryptic enough reply.

TDD

I work in medical research. Our interest is finding new ways to treat
stroke, using knowledge about how the body naturally keeps blood in a
fluid state. How does the lining of the blood (endothelial cells)
prevent blood platelets from aggregating and causing thrombus formation
and clots? Those can seriously ruin your day. We have identified a key
protein in these processes, called CD39. We were somewhat short of
funding, but that's much better now thanks to obtaining an NIH grant
(your tax dollars at work), and we could hire personnel to help do the
work we proposed. Now we are training them.

Hope that clarifies.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Sat, 15 May 2010 06:19:38 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

aemeijers wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
wrote:
I am droppind Dish Network since they raised the extra receiver fee
from $5 bucks a month to $17 a month and added some other fees in
february and now raised basic service and premium prices too.

I am getting a TIVO and going to download shows on netflix. and use
the TIVO OTA capability.May buy DVDs of favorite shows. If thats not
enough I will get cable

Its sad I am a dish subscriber for over 13 years, sold it as a dealer
for awhile, and now they start gouging on prices. In this economy 12
buck per extra receiver fee is totally unacceptable......

I do most of my TV and movie watching online. In fact, I don't recall
the last time I went to a movie theater, it's been that long ago. I
get my TV and movie fix from several sites.

http://www.hulu.com/

http://www.fastpasstv.com/

http://www.ninjavideo.net/

There are many more sites but these three seem to work the best for me.

TDD

My dish subscription is cheaper than a high-speed connection would be,
in this neighborhood. At 384k, even a 2-minute youtube video is painful
to watch. I wish Discovery and History were available OTA. I'd miss a
few of the other non-OTA channels, but those 2 are probably a third of
my viewing time.


Well, heck, I often forget that everyone doesn't have 10meg cable.

I don't even get 768K from my DSL connection. :-( The brat gets about 18Mb
from his cable connection, enough that he dropped the TV part and only watches
Internet TV.

The
interesting thing about ninjavideo is that if you set up your connection
correctly, it saves the video to your hard drive and you can burn it to
a DVD then put it in your collection. Believe me, you can fill up a hard
drive in a hurry watching movies online. Sometimes I'll start the movie
online, turn off the monitor and come back later then watch it from the
hard drive.

I do the same, but start the recording with a timer that knows all about the
schedule. Oh, that computer is the DishTV box. ;-)

Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living.

Do dishes by hand.

Buy the ingredients for food and make it yourself instead or eating at
restaurants or buying frozen dinners. Search for frugal recipes.

Take showers instead of a bath, turn off the water while soaping up, and
take showers only when necessary. Maybe skip showers on weekends if you are
not going out. Fewer showers in the winter, but of course two showers in one
day might be needed in the summer if working out in the hot sun - just what
is needed is the idea.

Don't see the latest movies, be content with the old movies. Disconnect
cable TV. Instead buy old VHS tapes at yard sales. These are selling for 50
cents each at yard sales now in my area. For $30 a month, you can begin to
acquire a very large collection of VHS tapes. (Use the cable TV money
instead for this.)

Instead of heating/cooling the entire house, just heat/cool one room. Living
room during the day, just bedroom at night. Of course on very cold evenings,
keep the whole house (especially bathrooms/kitchen) warm enough so pipes
don't freeze).

Go shopping once a month. Have 2 of each item like ketchup, mayonnaise, etc.
When you run out of something, use the 2nd item, and write it down on the
list. Then you only need to go shopping once a month. Then go to the least
expensive store, buy generic items rather than name brand. Saves on
gasoline.

Also buy the newest most energy efficient "Energy Star" appliances. I bought
a new refrigerator which reduced my electric bill by $15 a month. That paid
for itself in 5 years.

Lean to add....
$15 x 12 months = $180.
$180 x 5 years = $900.
The new refrigerator cost $800.

Energy saving tips...
http://www.energystar.gov

Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

Hey Han, where have you been? I haven't seen you post for a while.
I hope life is treating you well.

TDD
Life's fine! Working hard to train the techs who need to run the
assays you are paying for. Hoping to find some solutions for stroke
...

A cryptic enough reply.

TDD

I work in medical research. Our interest is finding new ways to treat
stroke, using knowledge about how the body naturally keeps blood in a
fluid state. How does the lining of the blood (endothelial cells)
prevent blood platelets from aggregating and causing thrombus formation
and clots? Those can seriously ruin your day. We have identified a key
protein in these processes, called CD39. We were somewhat short of
funding, but that's much better now thanks to obtaining an NIH grant
(your tax dollars at work), and we could hire personnel to help do the
work we proposed. Now we are training them.

Hope that clarifies.


I've been a mad scientist since I was a kid and all things pertaining
to science and medicine interest me. Does any of your research touch
on the formation of (critical plaques?) I think that's what I read
about. Something about them forming in the walls of blood vessels. I
suppose not many people understand just how important the work you're
involved with is to our aging population. I've had my own problems with
DVT's and such which is why I keep taking NSAIDs. My Doctor friend who
was an electrical engineer before becoming a cardiologist often gets
into the finer points of medicine with me. I fix his ultrasound machine
and computers and he tries to fix me. He's only practicing medicine as
you may know.

TDD

Unless they are in the creek, hillbillies are already
dressed.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote
in message ...
John Kuthe wrote:

Makes great Hillbilly Stew!

John Kuthe...

Do you make it out of real Hillbillies? How do you clean and
dress them before cooking?

TDD

And the gasoline to go fetch the parts.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Shawn Hirn" wrote in message
...

Tops on my list is to shop online whenever possible. For
example, if I
need a USB cable for my printer, I can easily buy one online
for $2 or
$3 for a six foot long cable, whereas all the stores in my
area charge
around $20 for the same cable.

On 15/05/10 16:07, Bill wrote:
Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living.

Do dishes by hand.

That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers.

Buy the ingredients for food and make it yourself instead or eating at
restaurants or buying frozen dinners.

There's an odd thing. If I cook "nice" food (as opposed to designed to
be cheap) it can be as expensive as ready meals...

Search for frugal recipes.

That's the key...

Take showers instead of a bath, turn off the water while soaping up, and
take showers only when necessary. Maybe skip showers on weekends if you are
not going out. Fewer showers in the winter, but of course two showers in one
day might be needed in the summer if working out in the hot sun - just what
is needed is the idea.

Yep.


Don't see the latest movies, be content with the old movies. Disconnect
cable TV. Instead buy old VHS tapes at yard sales. These are selling for 50
cents each at yard sales now in my area. For $30 a month, you can begin to
acquire a very large collection of VHS tapes. (Use the cable TV money
instead for this.)

Yep, s/Tape/DVD/



Instead of heating/cooling the entire house, just heat/cool one room. Living
room during the day, just bedroom at night. Of course on very cold evenings,
keep the whole house (especially bathrooms/kitchen) warm enough so pipes
don't freeze).

Go shopping once a month. Have 2 of each item like ketchup, mayonnaise, etc.
When you run out of something, use the 2nd item, and write it down on the
list. Then you only need to go shopping once a month. Then go to the least
expensive store, buy generic items rather than name brand. Saves on
gasoline.

Or use Internet shopping - gives more time to browse for the special
offers and you can do it from your kitchen so you can be sure what you
need. Delivery of often free at certain times of the day, or is no worse
than the fuel costs of running the car.

I shop once per week, which with Waitrose stuff, is often just about the
use by period of the food.


Also buy the newest most energy efficient "Energy Star" appliances. I bought
a new refrigerator which reduced my electric bill by $15 a month. That paid
for itself in 5 years.

Lean to add....
$15 x 12 months = $180.
$180 x 5 years = $900.
The new refrigerator cost $800.

Energy saving tips...
http://www.energystar.gov


But do the sums... If you buy a cheap piece of crap and it dies after 2
years, you haven't won.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

The Daring Dufas wrote in news:hsmdkt
:

I've been a mad scientist since I was a kid and all things pertaining
to science and medicine interest me. Does any of your research touch
on the formation of (critical plaques?) I think that's what I read
about. Something about them forming in the walls of blood vessels. I
suppose not many people understand just how important the work you're
involved with is to our aging population. I've had my own problems with
DVT's and such which is why I keep taking NSAIDs. My Doctor friend who
was an electrical engineer before becoming a cardiologist often gets
into the finer points of medicine with me. I fix his ultrasound machine
and computers and he tries to fix me. He's only practicing medicine as
you may know.


The phrase critical plaque is critical. In effect it means that plaques
are suspected (probably correctly) as the place(s) where things start to
go wrong. What we are trying to do is answer the question why in some
people at some point in time the body's natural defense systems fail.
And perhaps how we can give things a shove to start going right.

So we are testing platelet function and white cell functions in patients
who have had a stroke (and in controls) to find out what is different.
Some day we might have answers. The problem is that it is impossible to
do the tests just before a stroke hapens, and unethical to tell the
patient to wait with treatment because we want to test what is going
wrong as it is going wrong.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 15/05/10 16:07, Bill wrote:
Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living.

Do dishes by hand.

That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers.

That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the most
efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load.

However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough water
to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department calculated that
filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost about $20. So the price
of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300 would buy around 300,000
gallons of water at that price, which is enough water to wash an awful lot
of dishes. But then there's the cost of heating the additional water
washing by hand would use over what the dishwasher uses.

Still, it's no contest as far as I'm concerned - a dishwasher is far more
convenient than washing dishes by hand, and is a home appliance I wouldn't
want to be without.

On Sat, 15 May 2010 12:29:56 -0400, Lou wrote:

That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the most
efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load.

However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough
water to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department
calculated that filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost
about $20. So the price of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300
would buy around 300,000 gallons of water at that price, which is enough
water to wash an awful lot of dishes. But then there's the cost of
heating the additional water washing by hand would use over what the
dishwasher uses.

Your understandably US-centric view omits the fact that, for many in the
UK, a flat charge is paid for water.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

"Bill" wrote
Don't see the latest movies, be content with the old movies. Disconnect
cable TV. Instead buy old VHS tapes at yard sales. These are selling for
50 cents each at yard sales now in my area. For $30 a month, you can begin
to acquire a very large collection of VHS tapes. (Use the cable TV money
instead for this.)

That is a personal thing. I'd not pay 50¢ for the latest movie. I can
think of only two times I've gone to a movie in the past 25 years and that
was to take the kids or grandkids. I do spend money on cable TV and watch
History Channel, Nat Geo, Science Channel, Discovery, etc. The Planet Earth
and Life series are infinitely more entertaining that some silly movie, IMO.
Don't miss America: The Story of Us either. I can go on and on about some
of the entertaining and interesting shows on cable networks.

Lean to add....
$15 x 12 months = $180.
$180 x 5 years = $900.
The new refrigerator cost $800.

But don't lean so far that you fall over. or the money will fall out of
your pockets.

On 15/05/10 17:29, Lou wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...
On 15/05/10 16:07, Bill wrote:
Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living.

Do dishes by hand.

That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers.

That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the most
efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load.

However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough water
to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department calculated that
filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost about $20. So the price
of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300 would buy around 300,000
gallons of water at that price, which is enough water to wash an awful lot
of dishes.

I get an infinite amount of water (well, restricted by the 1/2" main
pipe which limits to about 55 litres/min) for my money. Though others
round here are on meters, I've so far escaped.

But then there's the cost of heating the additional water
washing by hand would use over what the dishwasher uses.

Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far. And a
dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by
gas, solar, wood etc.

Still, it's no contest as far as I'm concerned - a dishwasher is far more
convenient than washing dishes by hand, and is a home appliance I wouldn't
want to be without.

Me too. But if you tried washing by hand (I did when on holiday in
Latvia - washed my clothes in the river!), you may find that the washing
machine *is* the machine you cannot live without ;-

Last time I did a costs analysis in England, food was the biggest bill
(family of 4), electric only heating in winter (rebuilding a house, so
lack of insulation and no gas heating yet). But the 2nd biggest cost
after food was actually Council Tax (pays for the police to harrass me,
that sort of thing). And there's nothing I can do about that other than
sell and buy a smaller house, or a house in a different area...

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On Sat, 15 May 2010 18:26:42 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 15/05/10 17:29, Lou wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...
On 15/05/10 16:07, Bill wrote:
Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living.

Do dishes by hand.

That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers.

That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the most
efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load.

However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough water
to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department calculated that
filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost about $20. So the price
of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300 would buy around 300,000
gallons of water at that price, which is enough water to wash an awful lot
of dishes.

I get an infinite amount of water (well, restricted by the 1/2" main
pipe which limits to about 55 litres/min) for my money. Though others
round here are on meters, I've so far escaped.

Unmetered water is silly. Why don't you use it to generate electricity? Flush
the "waste" down the street.

But then there's the cost of heating the additional water
washing by hand would use over what the dishwasher uses.

Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far. And a
dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by
gas, solar, wood etc.

Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from the same
place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do have heaters to
boost the temperature further, something you can't do washing by hand.

Still, it's no contest as far as I'm concerned - a dishwasher is far more
convenient than washing dishes by hand, and is a home appliance I wouldn't
want to be without.

Me too. But if you tried washing by hand (I did when on holiday in
Latvia - washed my clothes in the river!), you may find that the washing
machine *is* the machine you cannot live without ;-

Last time I did a costs analysis in England, food was the biggest bill
(family of 4), electric only heating in winter (rebuilding a house, so
lack of insulation and no gas heating yet). But the 2nd biggest cost
after food was actually Council Tax (pays for the police to harrass me,
that sort of thing). And there's nothing I can do about that other than
sell and buy a smaller house, or a house in a different area...

When I lived in Vermont (a *cold* place in hell), my property tax bill was
larger than my heat bill, so I moved South. ;-) My tax bill is still larger
than my heating bill, but both have dropped by 75%. ;-) AC in the summer
makes up for a lot of the missing heat bill, though.

On Sat, 15 May 2010 13:03:28 -0500, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far. And a
dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by
gas, solar, wood etc.

Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from
the same place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do
have heaters to boost the temperature further, something you can't do
washing by hand.

Again, you're assuming the U.S.

Over here, dishwashers are usually cold fill. They use very little water,
so often they would fill mostly cold anyway, from water lying in the pipe.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

The Daring Dufas wrote:

http://www.hulu.com/

http://www.fastpasstv.com/

http://www.ninjavideo.net/

Well, heck, I often forget that everyone doesn't have 10meg cable. The
interesting thing about ninjavideo is that if you set up your
connection correctly, it saves the video to your hard drive and you
can burn it to a DVD then put it in your collection.

I went to that ninjavideo site. It started some video without any prompt from
me, and then my antivirus flagged a problem. Have you run into any problem
there?

On 15 May 2010 18:10:49 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 15 May 2010 13:03:28 -0500, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far. And a
dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by
gas, solar, wood etc.

Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from
the same place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do
have heaters to boost the temperature further, something you can't do
washing by hand.

Again, you're assuming the U.S.

Over here, dishwashers are usually cold fill.

That's dumb.

They use very little water,
so often they would fill mostly cold anyway, from water lying in the pipe.

So you waste the water in the pipes either way. If you're washing by hand
(with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water needed to get the tap up to
temperature, plus the water needed to do the dishes. Seems like an even
stronger argument for a hot-water plumed dishwasher.

On 15/05/10 19:03, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Unmetered water is silly. Why don't you use it to generate electricity? Flush
the "waste" down the street.

Not silly for me - especially when mixing lots of concrete and plaster
and the resulting washing out


Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from the same
place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do have heaters to
boost the temperature further, something you can't do washing by hand.

Your general statement has one bad assumption. USA ones may be - nearly
all the new ones here in teh UK (including washing machines) are cold
feed only.


When I lived in Vermont (a *cold* place in hell), my property tax bill was
larger than my heat bill, so I moved South. ;-) My tax bill is still larger
than my heating bill, but both have dropped by 75%. ;-) AC in the summer
makes up for a lot of the missing heat bill, though.



--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 15/05/10 19:34, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

So you waste the water in the pipes either way. If you're washing by hand
(with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water needed to get the tap up to
temperature, plus the water needed to do the dishes. Seems like an even
stronger argument for a hot-water plumed dishwasher.

No, because 10m of 15mm dia pipe contains 1.7 l of water. A typical
model 60cm wide Miele dishawasher takes in 13l of water over several
fills over 1-1.5 hours.

If it takes 4 fills (I haven't counted) that's about 3l of water per
fill so half of that is cold either way and the central heating has to
heat that half just to waste it cooling in the pipe and the machine has
to heat the other half from cold effectively. So it's hardly worth
bothering with.

Things may be worse with a combi boiler that actually has to fire up to
produce hot water from cold mains - there's now pipework wastage and
cold coming from the boiler while it gets the heat exchanger warmed up.

There is a stonger argument for a washing machine having a hot fill as
they use around 55 litres of water for a wash - but that's something to
do with (supposedly) the modern detergents preferring to work from cold
with a gentle warm up in the machine.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On Sat, 15 May 2010 19:38:29 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 15/05/10 19:03, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Unmetered water is silly. Why don't you use it to generate electricity? Flush
the "waste" down the street.

Not silly for me - especially when mixing lots of concrete and plaster
and the resulting washing out

Of course, I meant silly for the water company.

Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from the same
place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do have heaters to
boost the temperature further, something you can't do washing by hand.

Your general statement has one bad assumption. USA ones may be - nearly
all the new ones here in teh UK (including washing machines) are cold
feed only.

Dumb.

When I lived in Vermont (a *cold* place in hell), my property tax bill was
larger than my heat bill, so I moved South. ;-) My tax bill is still larger
than my heating bill, but both have dropped by 75%. ;-) AC in the summer
makes up for a lot of the missing heat bill, though.

On 15/05/10 19:51, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Of course, I meant silly for the water company.

They'll get round to scrfewing me over eventually so I'm enjoying it
while I can.

Dumb.

I refer the honourable gentle to my other reply...

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.