On May 15, 8:27*pm, Bob Eager wrote:

Being sort in the middle here in Canada, with a harsher climate and
one tenth the population of the USA in a larger country, will add the
following comments.

Electricity, produced almost 100% by less polluting hydro (water)
power in this part of the country is reasonably priced. Domestically
homes here use electrical heating almost entirely. Especially new
construction and renovations.
Also since electrcity is used to heat hot water, if when that water
cools down in the pipe or gradually over a two week period escapes
from extremely well insulated hot water tanks it contributes to
heating the home!
If the hot water was turned off the electric heaters would have to run
just a little bit longer. All electricity entering the house ends up
as heat! So it doesn't matter how that electricity is turned into
heat; by inefficient light bulbs, electric heaters or via hot
water ............ in fact some use electric hot water 'furnaces' in
some cases replacing 50 year old, hot air or hot water, oil furnaces
or for warm water underfloor heating.

I can remember the dirt, smogs and pollution of the 1940s and 50s in
the UK when we still burned coal! Acid rain! The rain off the roof in
Liverpool, for example, was black!

Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in news:hsmdkt
:

I've been a mad scientist since I was a kid and all things pertaining
to science and medicine interest me. Does any of your research touch
on the formation of (critical plaques?) I think that's what I read
about. Something about them forming in the walls of blood vessels. I
suppose not many people understand just how important the work you're
involved with is to our aging population. I've had my own problems with
DVT's and such which is why I keep taking NSAIDs. My Doctor friend who
was an electrical engineer before becoming a cardiologist often gets
into the finer points of medicine with me. I fix his ultrasound machine
and computers and he tries to fix me. He's only practicing medicine as
you may know.


The phrase critical plaque is critical. In effect it means that plaques
are suspected (probably correctly) as the place(s) where things start to
go wrong. What we are trying to do is answer the question why in some
people at some point in time the body's natural defense systems fail.
And perhaps how we can give things a shove to start going right.

So we are testing platelet function and white cell functions in patients
who have had a stroke (and in controls) to find out what is different.
Some day we might have answers. The problem is that it is impossible to
do the tests just before a stroke hapens, and unethical to tell the
patient to wait with treatment because we want to test what is going
wrong as it is going wrong.


So if you could use an animal instead of a human then try to duplicate
the conditions that cause a stroke, you could let it run its course
and give you clues as to what's going on? Is there a way to replicate
the conditions in animal testing or is there too much difference in the
biochemistry of man and whichever beast you would want to use. There is
always the PETA problem. Perhaps some PETA members would volunteer to
take the place of the test critters? I was wondering if the condition
could be some sort of autoimmune response or could there actually be a
virus involved? Remember the physician who was called a quack and
treated with disdain by the medical community when he claimed ulcers
were caused by H-pylori? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there
certain infections that damage heart valves? Could there be an infection
that would damage the walls of a blood vessel and lead to a clot? I
really hope your research produces a treatment for the prevention of
strokes because I know victims both young and old.

TDD

Bob F wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

http://www.hulu.com/

http://www.fastpasstv.com/

http://www.ninjavideo.net/

Well, heck, I often forget that everyone doesn't have 10meg cable. The
interesting thing about ninjavideo is that if you set up your
connection correctly, it saves the video to your hard drive and you
can burn it to a DVD then put it in your collection.

I went to that ninjavideo site. It started some video without any prompt from
me, and then my antivirus flagged a problem. Have you run into any problem
there?



Well, most of my machines are pretty well locked down and don't
usually take off on their own. It is important to follow the
instructions on the site to successfully view the content. You
must use the recommended version of the DIVX web player and cancel
any new update that may pop up. You also have to load the video
helper and leave it running to view their content but the Flash
and the mirror site content may play without it. So far, I haven't
had a virus or malware warning triggered by the site.

TDD

"Bob F" ha scritto nel

How can that be true, no hot water is wasted in a cold fill dishwasher.

But heating it may cost more, if the water heater is gas, for instance.

No, because a tank water heater works 24/7 no matter how cheap (and that's
strictly temporary) gas may be. The dishwasher fills with a couple of
liters of water, rinses, drains, then 3 liters that it heats. It takes less
than a minute to heat because it is so little water. Same for the rinses.
We are encouraged to use our dishwashers in Italy because it uses less water
and energy than handwashing. Potable water and energy are both a potential
big problem here.

On 16/05/10 03:21, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Lou" wrote in message
...

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.


I don't know what you mean by "gallon" - that was 6 US gallons,
consisting
for 4 quarts of 32 ounces each, not 5 quarts of 40 ounces each. Six US
gallons works out to 22.7 liters.

That six gallons is for the complete cycle. Pre-wash, wash, rinse, final
rinse.

So was the 13l or 3.4 US gallons. I took that from Miele's website as
typical of a modern 60cm under worktop machine. That machine will take a
day's worth for a family of 4 unless it's a weekend and I've done a
roast, in which case it's likely to be 2 loads.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

terry wrote
Bob Eager wrote

Being sort in the middle here in Canada, with a harsher
climate and one tenth the population of the USA in a
larger country, will add the following comments.

Pity they mangle the basics.

Electricity, produced almost 100% by less polluting hydro
(water) power in this part of the country is reasonably
priced. Domestically homes here use electrical heating
almost entirely. Especially new construction and renovations.

And that is quite unusual.

Also since electrcity is used to heat hot water, if when that water cools
down in the pipe or gradually over a two week period escapes from
extremely well insulated hot water tanks it contributes to heating the home!

Bugger all in fact, and that isnt necessarily what you want in summer anyway.

If the hot water was turned off the electric
heaters would have to run just a little bit longer.

Not in summer, even in Canada.

All electricity entering the house ends up as heat!

And that isnt necessarily desirable in summer!!!

So it doesn't matter how that electricity is turned into heat;
by inefficient light bulbs, electric heaters or via hot water ............

And that isnt necessarily desirable in summer!!!

in fact some use electric hot water 'furnaces' in some
cases replacing 50 year old, hot air or hot water,
oil furnaces or for warm water underfloor heating.

Not in summer they dont.

I can remember the dirt, smogs and pollution of the 1940s
and 50s in the UK when we still burned coal! Acid rain!
The rain off the roof in Liverpool, for example, was black!

Pure fantasy/mangled recollection.

On Sat, 15 May 2010 23:23:02 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

No car? Groceries are our biggest bill but following close behind
is
the car. Energy and council tax fight over 3rd.

2 actually. But SWMBO commutes by train (no driving, we live pretty much
next to the station) and I only use it for dump runs and DIY pickups and
days out. I fill up maybe every 2 months.

I fill up with around 75l a time 4 times/month, 21,000+ miles/year...

With your level of use I think you ought to look at the *full* costs
of the car compared to taxis or hire cars. Full cost being Insurance,
MOT, Tax, Servicing, Depreciation and fuel.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Rod Speed wrote:
terry wrote
Bob Eager wrote

Being sort in the middle here in Canada, with a harsher
climate and one tenth the population of the USA in a
larger country, will add the following comments.

Pity they mangle the basics.

Electricity, produced almost 100% by less polluting hydro
(water) power in this part of the country is reasonably
priced. Domestically homes here use electrical heating
almost entirely. Especially new construction and renovations.

And that is quite unusual.

Also since electrcity is used to heat hot water, if when that water cools
down in the pipe or gradually over a two week period escapes from
extremely well insulated hot water tanks it contributes to heating the home!

Bugger all in fact, and that isnt necessarily what you want in summer anyway.

If the hot water was turned off the electric
heaters would have to run just a little bit longer.

Not in summer, even in Canada.

All electricity entering the house ends up as heat!

And that isnt necessarily desirable in summer!!!

So it doesn't matter how that electricity is turned into heat;
by inefficient light bulbs, electric heaters or via hot water ............

And that isnt necessarily desirable in summer!!!

in fact some use electric hot water 'furnaces' in some
cases replacing 50 year old, hot air or hot water,
oil furnaces or for warm water underfloor heating.

Not in summer they dont.

I can remember the dirt, smogs and pollution of the 1940s
and 50s in the UK when we still burned coal! Acid rain!
The rain off the roof in Liverpool, for example, was black!

Pure fantasy/mangled recollection.


we I have to say that I disagree with every single point you have badly
attempted to make

The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

So if you could use an animal instead of a human then try to duplicate
the conditions that cause a stroke, you could let it run its course
and give you clues as to what's going on?

Good idea. We have proven that we can reduce the impact of a stroke
"given" to mice with a soluble version of CD39, even when we give it 3
hours after the stroke. However, we really do not know why people
suddenly get a stroke, except in rather vague terms, such as a plaque
rupture. But that doesn't say why it ruptured, or why it did when it
did. It also doesn't say whether other factors (we are thinking of
increased platelet reactivity for a wide variety of possible causes) do
or do not play a role.

We do know that it is possible that a role is played by some clotting
disorders, sedentary lifestyle, Factor V Leiden, an opening between
chambers of the heart ("patent foramen ovale", present in 25% of normal
people) and so on and so forth.

Is there a way to replicate the conditions in animal testing or is
there too much difference in the biochemistry of man and whichever
beast you would want to use.

See above. And indeed there are differences between people, who tend to
be "outbred" and mice of different strains, who are inbred (for a
purpose).

There is
always the PETA problem. Perhaps some PETA members would volunteer to
take the place of the test critters?

Interesting concept ...

I was wondering if the condition could be some sort of autoimmune
response or could there actually be a
virus involved? Remember the physician who was called a quack and
treated with disdain by the medical community when he claimed ulcers
were caused by H-pylori? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there
certain infections that damage heart valves? Could there be an
infection that would damage the walls of a blood vessel and lead to a
clot? I really hope your research produces a treatment for the
prevention of strokes because I know victims both young and old.

TDD

We are doing our very best to shed light on the problem(s). It is very
complex, though, and very expensive to do research in a comprehensive
way. We can't possibly do all the tests we can think of, becasue of a)
expense, and b) availability of a sufficiently large blood sample.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

So if you could use an animal instead of a human then try to duplicate
the conditions that cause a stroke, you could let it run its course
and give you clues as to what's going on?

Good idea. We have proven that we can reduce the impact of a stroke
"given" to mice with a soluble version of CD39, even when we give it 3
hours after the stroke. However, we really do not know why people
suddenly get a stroke, except in rather vague terms, such as a plaque
rupture. But that doesn't say why it ruptured, or why it did when it
did. It also doesn't say whether other factors (we are thinking of
increased platelet reactivity for a wide variety of possible causes) do
or do not play a role.

We do know that it is possible that a role is played by some clotting
disorders, sedentary lifestyle, Factor V Leiden, an opening between
chambers of the heart ("patent foramen ovale", present in 25% of normal
people) and so on and so forth.

Is there a way to replicate the conditions in animal testing or is
there too much difference in the biochemistry of man and whichever
beast you would want to use.

See above. And indeed there are differences between people, who tend to
be "outbred" and mice of different strains, who are inbred (for a
purpose).

There is
always the PETA problem. Perhaps some PETA members would volunteer to
take the place of the test critters?

Interesting concept ...

I was wondering if the condition could be some sort of autoimmune
response or could there actually be a
virus involved? Remember the physician who was called a quack and
treated with disdain by the medical community when he claimed ulcers
were caused by H-pylori? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there
certain infections that damage heart valves? Could there be an
infection that would damage the walls of a blood vessel and lead to a
clot? I really hope your research produces a treatment for the
prevention of strokes because I know victims both young and old.

TDD

We are doing our very best to shed light on the problem(s). It is very
complex, though, and very expensive to do research in a comprehensive
way. We can't possibly do all the tests we can think of, becasue of a)
expense, and b) availability of a sufficiently large blood sample.


I've always found medicine to be fascinating and I do have some medical
heroes, pediatric trauma specialists and veterinarians. I don't know
how someone could work through the tears when confronted with a little
broken body and both pediatricians and veterinarians have to deal with
patients who can't tell them what's wrong or where it hurts. My field
of study was physics and unfortunately I had to leave college and go to
work out in the real world. One day I may be able to go back but I'm
sure to clash with those who don't understand reality,....yet.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote in news:hsoqop$cp3
:

I've always found medicine to be fascinating and I do have some medical
heroes, pediatric trauma specialists and veterinarians. I don't know
how someone could work through the tears when confronted with a little
broken body and both pediatricians and veterinarians have to deal with
patients who can't tell them what's wrong or where it hurts. My field
of study was physics and unfortunately I had to leave college and go to
work out in the real world. One day I may be able to go back but I'm
sure to clash with those who don't understand reality,....yet.

TDD

I hope you'll get the chance! The advantage that pediatricians and
veterinarians have is that the patients themselves can't give misleading
information ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 16/05/10 03:21, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Lou" wrote in message
...

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US
gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.


I don't know what you mean by "gallon" - that was 6 US gallons,
consisting
for 4 quarts of 32 ounces each, not 5 quarts of 40 ounces each. Six US
gallons works out to 22.7 liters.

That six gallons is for the complete cycle. Pre-wash, wash, rinse, final
rinse.

So was the 13l or 3.4 US gallons. I took that from Miele's website as
typical of a modern 60cm under worktop machine. That machine will take a
day's worth for a family of 4 unless it's a weekend and I've done a
roast, in which case it's likely to be 2 loads.

That's an enviable efficiency as far as water use is concerned, but...

In the US according to a quick web search, a full sized Miele dishwasher can
run from $1,249 to $2,149 depending on the model. A more typical dishwasher
costs $300-$400, making the Miele over five times as expensive. That
difference will buy an awful lot of water - in my area, about 849,000 US
gallons (3,213,814 liters). Even if the cheaper dishwasher used 10 gallons
a load, if the thing was run once a day, it would take 232 years for the
water savings to break even on the additional cost, not counting the expense
of heating the additional water and assuming water costs don't go up.

If that's all that was available I'd buy it, but in the face of cheaper
alternatives, it just isn't worth it on purely economic terms.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 11:34:23 -0400, Lou wrote:

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 16/05/10 03:21, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Lou" wrote in message
...

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US
gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.


I don't know what you mean by "gallon" - that was 6 US gallons,
consisting
for 4 quarts of 32 ounces each, not 5 quarts of 40 ounces each. Six
US gallons works out to 22.7 liters.

That six gallons is for the complete cycle. Pre-wash, wash, rinse,
final rinse.

So was the 13l or 3.4 US gallons. I took that from Miele's website as
typical of a modern 60cm under worktop machine. That machine will take
a day's worth for a family of 4 unless it's a weekend and I've done a
roast, in which case it's likely to be 2 loads.

That's an enviable efficiency as far as water use is concerned, but...

In the US according to a quick web search, a full sized Miele dishwasher
can run from $1,249 to $2,149 depending on the model. A more typical
dishwasher costs $300-$400, making the Miele over five times as
expensive. That difference will buy an awful lot of water - in my area,
about 849,000 US gallons (3,213,814 liters). Even if the cheaper
dishwasher used 10 gallons a load, if the thing was run once a day, it
would take 232 years for the water savings to break even on the
additional cost, not counting the expense of heating the additional
water and assuming water costs don't go up.

If that's all that was available I'd buy it, but in the face of cheaper
alternatives, it just isn't worth it on purely economic terms.

We have a considerably cheaper Bosch dishwasher, and it uses a similar
amount of water. The choice of Miele was perhaps unfortunate as an
example.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 16/05/2010 01:08, Lou wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...

6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.


I don't know what you mean by "gallon" - that was 6 US gallons, consisting
for 4 quarts of 32 ounces each, not 5 quarts of 40 ounces each.


Since when were there five quarts in gallon of any sort? Wouldn't they
be quints?

--
Rod

In article ,
Rod wrote:

On 16/05/2010 01:08, Lou wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...

6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.


I don't know what you mean by "gallon" - that was 6 US gallons, consisting
for 4 quarts of 32 ounces each, not 5 quarts of 40 ounces each.


Since when were there five quarts in gallon of any sort? Wouldn't they
be quints?

An Imperial gallon has more than 4 quarts. It is 4 liters. One liter
is slightly more than 1 quart.

1 Imperial gallon has approximately 4 and 1/2 quarts.

It's why we use 4 liter glass bottles instead of gallons when we
purchase water from the local grocery store filtered water dispenser.
;-) We saved old 4 liter glass wine bottles.

Plus water tastes better out of glass than it does plastic!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet
Â*Only Irish Â*coffee provides in a single glass all four Â*essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar Â*and fat. --Alex Levine

On May 16, 5:48�pm, Omelet wrote:
In article ,

�Rod wrote:
On 16/05/2010 01:08, Lou wrote:
"Tim �wrote in message
...

6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.

I don't know what you mean by "gallon" - that was 6 US gallons, consisting
for 4 quarts of 32 ounces each, not 5 quarts of 40 ounces each.


Since when were there five quarts in gallon of any sort? Wouldn't they
be quints?

An Imperial gallon has more than 4 quarts. �It is 4 liters. �One liter
is slightly more than 1 quart.

1 Imperial gallon has approximately 4 and 1/2 quarts.

It's why we use 4 liter glass bottles instead of gallons when we
purchase water from the local grocery store filtered water dispenser.
;-) We saved old 4 liter glass wine bottles.

Plus water tastes better out of glass than it does plastic!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet
�Only Irish �coffee provides in a single glass all four �essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar �and fat. �--Alex Levine

There are four imperial quarts in one imperial gallon. Also there are
eight imperial pints in one imperial gallon. Don't mix them up. Or,
go metric.
There are 4.54 litres in an imperial gallon.
And a litre of petrol in the UK is �1.24. Thats about $8 /US gallon..
Mostly tax.
F***k!

On 16/05/10 16:34, Lou wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...

So was the 13l or 3.4 US gallons. I took that from Miele's website as
typical of a modern 60cm under worktop machine. That machine will take a
day's worth for a family of 4 unless it's a weekend and I've done a
roast, in which case it's likely to be 2 loads.

That's an enviable efficiency as far as water use is concerned, but...

That's the EU for you!

In the US according to a quick web search, a full sized Miele dishwasher can
run from $1,249 to $2,149 depending on the model. A more typical dishwasher
costs $300-$400, making the Miele over five times as expensive. That
difference will buy an awful lot of water

The Miele will probably last twice as long as a good Bosch and 5 times
as long as the cheap crap at the bottom of the scale making it cost
neutral in the long term and better for the environment, and whilst I
have a beard I don't possess sandles nor do I form intimate relations
with trees (ie I'm not a loony greeny).

It's certainly been my experience that whilst Bosch Logixx (not the
Classix or Excel which are not really German) is a pretty good machine,
the engineering quality in the Mieles are outstanding. I expect my
washing machine to last 20 years and remain serviceable.

Bosch at least are also quite serviceable machines with spare parts
being readily available and quite DIY-able.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 16/05/10 17:14, Bob Eager wrote:

We have a considerably cheaper Bosch dishwasher, and it uses a similar
amount of water. The choice of Miele was perhaps unfortunate as an
example.


Yes.

But it's uk-d-i-y. Someone will say: "angle grinder" in a minute ;-

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 16/05/10 17:48, Omelet wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 16/05/2010 01:08, Lou wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...

6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.


I don't know what you mean by "gallon" - that was 6 US gallons, consisting
for 4 quarts of 32 ounces each, not 5 quarts of 40 ounces each.


Since when were there five quarts in gallon of any sort? Wouldn't they
be quints?

An Imperial gallon has more than 4 quarts. It is 4 liters. One liter
is slightly more than 1 quart.

Nn imperial gallon consists of 4 imperial quarts, each of which is 2
imperial pints, each pint being 20 imperial fl oz.

We might have our balls in the vice grip of the EU but we still buy beer
by the pint and the firkin and the barrel, or very occasionally, the yard.

They did metrify spirits many years back though - no longer is a shot
or measure 1/6 of a gill

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:24:49 +0100, Rod wrote:

On 16/05/2010 01:08, Lou wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...

6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.


I don't know what you mean by "gallon" - that was 6 US gallons, consisting
for 4 quarts of 32 ounces each, not 5 quarts of 40 ounces each.


Since when were there five quarts in gallon of any sort? Wouldn't they
be quints?

Yes, but an imperial gallon is four 40oz. quarts, which happens to equal five
32oz. quints. Well, close enough (within .1%).

On Sun, 16 May 2010 10:45:00 +0200, "Giusi" wrote:


"Bob F" ha scritto nel

How can that be true, no hot water is wasted in a cold fill dishwasher.

But heating it may cost more, if the water heater is gas, for instance.

No, because a tank water heater works 24/7 no matter how cheap (and that's
strictly temporary) gas may be. The dishwasher fills with a couple of
liters of water, rinses, drains, then 3 liters that it heats. It takes less
than a minute to heat because it is so little water. Same for the rinses.
We are encouraged to use our dishwashers in Italy because it uses less water
and energy than handwashing. Potable water and energy are both a potential
big problem here.

No, because that tank water heater is running anyway. Its loss can't be piled
on one side of the equation and not the other.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 00:29:17 -0700 (PDT), terry
wrote:

On May 15, 8:27*pm, Bob Eager wrote:

Being sort in the middle here in Canada, with a harsher climate and
one tenth the population of the USA in a larger country, will add the
following comments.

Electricity, produced almost 100% by less polluting hydro (water)
power in this part of the country is reasonably priced. Domestically
homes here use electrical heating almost entirely. Especially new
construction and renovations.

Tell the enviro-whackos that.

Also since electrcity is used to heat hot water, if when that water
cools down in the pipe or gradually over a two week period escapes
from extremely well insulated hot water tanks it contributes to
heating the home!

Then why insulate the tank at all?

If the hot water was turned off the electric heaters would have to run
just a little bit longer. All electricity entering the house ends up
as heat! So it doesn't matter how that electricity is turned into
heat; by inefficient light bulbs, electric heaters or via hot
water ............ in fact some use electric hot water 'furnaces' in
some cases replacing 50 year old, hot air or hot water, oil furnaces
or for warm water underfloor heating.

I can remember the dirt, smogs and pollution of the 1940s and 50s in
the UK when we still burned coal! Acid rain! The rain off the roof in
Liverpool, for example, was black!

Yes, it's amazing how little pollution there is anymore, even in the dirty
USA. Guess why? Because we can afford to clean up the environment. If the
Deomicrats have their way we'll be back to burning wood in a pit.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 11:48:40 -0500, Omelet wrote:

An Imperial gallon has more than 4 quarts.

Define which quart. A gallon has 4 quarts from the same system but:

An imperial gallon is 4.8 US liquid quarts.
A US liquid gallon is 3.33 imperial quarts.

It is 4 liters.

An Imperial Gallon is 4.54 litres.

One liter is slightly more than 1 quart.

1.056 US Liquid Quarts.
0.88 Imperial Quarts.

1 Imperial gallon has approximately 4 and 1/2 quarts.

You need to define your quarts...

It's why we use 4 liter glass bottles instead of gallons when we
purchase water from the local grocery store filtered water dispenser.

4 litres are the same as 4.22 US liquid quarts.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in news:hsoqop$cp3
:

I've always found medicine to be fascinating and I do have some medical
heroes, pediatric trauma specialists and veterinarians. I don't know
how someone could work through the tears when confronted with a little
broken body and both pediatricians and veterinarians have to deal with
patients who can't tell them what's wrong or where it hurts. My field
of study was physics and unfortunately I had to leave college and go to
work out in the real world. One day I may be able to go back but I'm
sure to clash with those who don't understand reality,....yet.

TDD

I hope you'll get the chance! The advantage that pediatricians and
veterinarians have is that the patients themselves can't give misleading
information ...


My mother went back and got her PhD when she was in her mid 50's
after going through 10 pregnancies in 20 years and teaching in
primary schools and colleges. Being completely bonkers, her PhD
had to be in psychology of course. I just saw a news story about
an old gal who went back to school and graduated college at 94.
I think I would wind up taking refresher courses in English and
math before making a serious run for a degree. Since the advent
of the modern Internet and bulletin boards, I've done more writing
than I ever did in my school days, that could actually be a very
good advantage for me. The instant access to information is some-
thing I wish I had a half century ago when I was starving for any
knowledge about anything. Since we now have information overload,
I believe the most important skills for anyone will be the ability
to filter out the male bovine droppings from the truth. I still
like to visit the libraries and randomly pick out things to read
but the homeless tend to hang out there to avoid climate change.

TDD

On Sun, 16 May 2010 18:09:03 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 16/05/10 17:14, Bob Eager wrote:

We have a considerably cheaper Bosch dishwasher, and it uses a similar
amount of water. The choice of Miele was perhaps unfortunate as an
example.


Yes.

But it's uk-d-i-y. Someone will say: "angle grinder" in a minute ;-

I wasn't saying that Miele wasn't a good choice, I hasten to add. Just
that the figures look worse. Our Bosch dishwasher is comign up to 10
years of age, and it's just had a small spring and the drain hose
replaced (by me).


--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 16/05/2010 18:14, Tim Watts wrote:


They did metrify spirits many years back though - no longer is a shot or
measure 1/6 of a gill

Or 1/5 or 1/4 in Scotland...

--
Rod

Giusi wrote
Bob F wrote

How can that be true, no hot water is wasted in a cold fill dishwasher.

But heating it may cost more, if the water heater is gas, for instance.

No,

Yes, he did say MAY.

because a tank water heater works 24/7 no matter how cheap

Plenty of the water heaters dont store the hot water.

(and that's strictly temporary) gas may be.

Not necessarily.

The dishwasher fills with a couple of liters of water, rinses, drains, then 3 liters that it heats.

Yes, but a dishwasher that uses piped hot water doesnt have to use hot water all the time.

It takes less than a minute to heat because it is so little water. Same for the rinses.

The rinses arent necessarily done with hot water. Only my last one is.

We are encouraged to use our dishwashers in Italy because it uses less water and energy than handwashing.

The energy claim is very dubious, particularly with drying.

Potable water and energy are both a potential big problem here.

But they dont necessarily use less total energy, particularly with drying.

On 5/16/2010 6:31 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:24:49 +0100, wrote:
On 16/05/2010 01:08, Lou wrote:
"Tim wrote
6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.

I don't know what you mean by "gallon" - that was 6 US gallons, consisting
for 4 quarts of 32 ounces each, not 5 quarts of 40 ounces each.

Since when were there five quarts in gallon of any sort? Wouldn't they
be quints?

Yes, but an imperial gallon is four 40oz. quarts, which happens to equal five
32oz. quints. Well, close enough (within .1%).

But - the Imperial ounce isn't exactly the same as the US ounce...

On 16/05/2010 22:34, S Viemeister wrote:
On 5/16/2010 6:31 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:24:49 +0100, wrote:
On 16/05/2010 01:08, Lou wrote:
"Tim wrote
6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US
gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.

I don't know what you mean by "gallon" - that was 6 US gallons,
consisting
for 4 quarts of 32 ounces each, not 5 quarts of 40 ounces each.

Since when were there five quarts in gallon of any sort? Wouldn't they
be quints?

Yes, but an imperial gallon is four 40oz. quarts, which happens to
equal five
32oz. quints. Well, close enough (within .1%).

But - the Imperial ounce isn't exactly the same as the US ounce...

Nor even is the Imperial fluid ounce equal to the US fluid ounce...

--
Rod

Eric wrote:
What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
practice, relating
to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
it's for
food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.

Hi,
I enjoy the benefit of tax free savings account to the max.

Lou wrote:

In the US according to a quick web search, a full sized Miele
dishwasher can run from $1,249 to $2,149 depending on the model. A
more typical dishwasher costs $300-$400, making the Miele over five
times as expensive. That difference will buy an awful lot of water -
in my area, about 849,000 US gallons (3,213,814 liters).

When you figure in the sewage charge, my water is WAY more expensive than that.
About $12.50 per ccf, which is 748 gallons, or about 1.7 cents / gallon. Heating
it cost significantly more than that in addition, I'm sure. $3.50 of that $12.50
is the actual water charge.

Sort of a saving tip? Save the kids?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

I've always found medicine to be fascinating and I do have some
medical
heroes, pediatric trauma specialists and veterinarians. I don't know
how someone could work through the tears when confronted with a little
broken body and both pediatricians and veterinarians have to deal with
patients who can't tell them what's wrong or where it hurts. My field
of study was physics and unfortunately I had to leave college and go
to
work out in the real world. One day I may be able to go back but I'm
sure to clash with those who don't understand reality,....yet.

TDD

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 22:42:56 -0500, (Gary Heston)
wrote:

In article ,
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 17:47:19 -0700, Oren wrote:
[ ... ]
I'm not expert. I'm not sure of the word that would describe my PEX
manifold (not looking at my *.PDF). There is a loop H/C at the
top. I wish I knew the exact wording, but I know cold water is
looped back to the heater, when hot is demanded.

If you can find a reference for this I'd appreciate it.

Gosh that "word" escapes me now.

I believe that's a convection circulating system.

Large buildings use a circulating pump in the hot water piping, with
a large central boiler as the source.

But for hot water? Residential? It's possible, sure, just would
like to see how this thing works. Sounds too complicated to be
reliable.

As I re-plumb my house, I have added a recirculation pump and extra return line.
If I'm going to want hot water, I push a button, and 30 seconds later (or less)
I can turn on the hot and have it hot in 2 seconds.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Yes, it's amazing how little pollution there is anymore, even in the
dirty USA. Guess why? Because we can afford to clean up the
environment. If the Deomicrats have their way we'll be back to
burning wood in a pit.

Funny, since it was the republicans fighting tooth and nail to stop the
environmental laws that cleaned up the air and water. Kinda like they are doing
now.

In article
,
harry wrote:

On May 16, 5:48?pm, Omelet wrote:
In article ,

?Rod wrote:
On 16/05/2010 01:08, Lou wrote:
"Tim ?wrote in message
...

6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US
gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.

I don't know what you mean by "gallon" - that was 6 US gallons,
consisting
for 4 quarts of 32 ounces each, not 5 quarts of 40 ounces each.


Since when were there five quarts in gallon of any sort? Wouldn't they
be quints?

An Imperial gallon has more than 4 quarts. ?It is 4 liters. ?One liter
is slightly more than 1 quart.

1 Imperial gallon has approximately 4 and 1/2 quarts.

It's why we use 4 liter glass bottles instead of gallons when we
purchase water from the local grocery store filtered water dispenser.
;-) We saved old 4 liter glass wine bottles.

Plus water tastes better out of glass than it does plastic!

There are four imperial quarts in one imperial gallon. Also there are
eight imperial pints in one imperial gallon. Don't mix them up. Or,
go metric.
There are 4.54 litres in an imperial gallon.
And a litre of petrol in the UK is ?1.24. Thats about $8 /US gallon.
Mostly tax.
F***k!

See? I was right. g
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet
Â*Only Irish Â*coffee provides in a single glass all four Â*essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar Â*and fat. --Alex Levine

In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

On Sun, 16 May 2010 11:48:40 -0500, Omelet wrote:

An Imperial gallon has more than 4 quarts.

Define which quart. A gallon has 4 quarts from the same system but:

An imperial gallon is 4.8 US liquid quarts.
A US liquid gallon is 3.33 imperial quarts.

It is 4 liters.

An Imperial Gallon is 4.54 litres.

One liter is slightly more than 1 quart.

1.056 US Liquid Quarts.
0.88 Imperial Quarts.

1 Imperial gallon has approximately 4 and 1/2 quarts.

You need to define your quarts...

It's why we use 4 liter glass bottles instead of gallons when we
purchase water from the local grocery store filtered water dispenser.

4 litres are the same as 4.22 US liquid quarts.

The math still works in that one Imperial Gallon is worth more than 4
American quarts. ;-)

Wal-mart charges by the American Gallon for purified water from the
dispensers and does not change the price for using bottles that hold one
Imperial Gallon... so we get more for our money even after informing the
cashier of such.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:43:35 +0100, Rod wrote:

On 16/05/2010 22:34, S Viemeister wrote:
On 5/16/2010 6:31 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:24:49 +0100, wrote:
On 16/05/2010 01:08, Lou wrote:
"Tim wrote
6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US
gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.

I don't know what you mean by "gallon" - that was 6 US gallons,
consisting
for 4 quarts of 32 ounces each, not 5 quarts of 40 ounces each.

Since when were there five quarts in gallon of any sort? Wouldn't they
be quints?

Yes, but an imperial gallon is four 40oz. quarts, which happens to
equal five
32oz. quints. Well, close enough (within .1%).

But - the Imperial ounce isn't exactly the same as the US ounce...

Nor even is the Imperial fluid ounce equal to the US fluid ounce...

Which is why I wrote the "Well, close enough (within .1%)" part. See, I knew
some assholes would try to pick the simple math apart with such trivia. I'm
not disappointed. ;-)

On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:07:29 -0700, "Bob F" wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 22:42:56 -0500, (Gary Heston)
wrote:

In article ,
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 17:47:19 -0700, Oren wrote:
[ ... ]
I'm not expert. I'm not sure of the word that would describe my PEX
manifold (not looking at my *.PDF). There is a loop H/C at the
top. I wish I knew the exact wording, but I know cold water is
looped back to the heater, when hot is demanded.

If you can find a reference for this I'd appreciate it.

Gosh that "word" escapes me now.

I believe that's a convection circulating system.

Large buildings use a circulating pump in the hot water piping, with
a large central boiler as the source.

But for hot water? Residential? It's possible, sure, just would
like to see how this thing works. Sounds too complicated to be
reliable.

As I re-plumb my house, I have added a recirculation pump and extra return line.
If I'm going to want hot water, I push a button, and 30 seconds later (or less)
I can turn on the hot and have it hot in 2 seconds.

At the cost of twice as much wasted hot water. I understand how a
recirculation pump works. How's this magic manifold work?

On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:11:57 -0700, "Bob F" wrote:

wrote:

Yes, it's amazing how little pollution there is anymore, even in the
dirty USA. Guess why? Because we can afford to clean up the
environment. If the Deomicrats have their way we'll be back to
burning wood in a pit.

Funny, since it was the republicans fighting tooth and nail to stop the
environmental laws that cleaned up the air and water. Kinda like they are doing
now.

Nonsense.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:07:29 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 22:42:56 -0500, (Gary Heston)
wrote:

In article ,
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 17:47:19 -0700, Oren wrote:
[ ... ]
I'm not expert. I'm not sure of the word that would describe my
PEX manifold (not looking at my *.PDF). There is a loop H/C at
the top. I wish I knew the exact wording, but I know cold water
is looped back to the heater, when hot is demanded.

If you can find a reference for this I'd appreciate it.

Gosh that "word" escapes me now.

I believe that's a convection circulating system.

Large buildings use a circulating pump in the hot water piping,
with a large central boiler as the source.

But for hot water? Residential? It's possible, sure, just would
like to see how this thing works. Sounds too complicated to be
reliable.

As I re-plumb my house, I have added a recirculation pump and extra
return line. If I'm going to want hot water, I push a button, and 30
seconds later (or less) I can turn on the hot and have it hot in 2
seconds.

At the cost of twice as much wasted hot water. I understand how a
recirculation pump works. How's this magic manifold work?

At the cost of no wasted hot water, in fact no wasted $.017/gallon water. I
don't have a clue what the "magic manifold" you speak of is.