AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:12:42 -0600, Michael Dobony
wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 07:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15? F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

This is just some data that needs to be hidden.

It's irrelevent. Climate change != seasonal weather.

You can't say that. Climate change is whatever the "experts" say it is.
Climate change is responsible for seasonal weather except when it has no
effect. Climate change is responsible for more and more violent hurricanes
except when acts to cut down their frequency and intensity. Climate change
is responsible for shrinking some glaciers while expanding other. And so on.

No, you just have to yield to your betters on the consequences of global
warming; there's no way to figure it out on your own - except, of course,
for Africanized bees. That one's obvious.

AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 13:10:23 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I was working in the Los Angeles area in 1989 when it snowed! The little
Mexican kids were very confused. Must have been Global Cooling.

I was there too. It never snowed. Perhaps you confuse hail w/ snow.

"February 8, 1989 in History.
Event: 5 cm of snow falls in outskirts of Los Angeles..."

--

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:42:33 -0600, dpb wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 13:10:23 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I was working in the Los Angeles area in 1989 when it snowed! The little
Mexican kids were very confused. Must have been Global Cooling.

I was there too. It never snowed. Perhaps you confuse hail w/ snow.

"February 8, 1989 in History.
Event: 5 cm of snow falls in outskirts of Los Angeles..."

I appologize. I lived in costa mesa at the time. I don't think they
got any.

On Jan 5, 12:43*pm, "Master Betty" wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message

...

Master Betty wrote:
...
It didn't let up. 52 consectutive days of over 100 degrees. Last summer
was the worst ever!

For what definition of "ever"?

--

Goodpoint.

I've been here 6 years and, I always thought it was hot here, but last
summer took the prize.

From what I've heard it was the hottest in "recorded" history. Some time in
the 1800s they started record keeping. Easy to Google. I don't have to. I
lived it. It sucked. My a/c went out too.

AHHHHHHH, Now you have it defined. I would really really feel sorry
for you but I grew up in Temple and we NEVER had an A/C unit to go
out. Guess I became acclimated to the heat and don't notice it nearly
as much as this DAMN COLD. I also don't put too much faith in this
"Hottest in Recorded History" since the record keeping has always been
spotty at best. There is also the issue of the accuracy of our
current temperature guaging stations which have been found to NOT
conform to standards for placement and maintenance. Seems that a lot
of the standard temperature stations are setup in or near parking lots
and external heat sources that call their readings into question.

dpb wrote:
Master Betty wrote:
...

True....We're having an unusually cold winter and last summer was the
hottest on record. Weird. I hope we never have another summer like
the last one. This cold weather is a nice change. Not good for
citrus farmers though.

OK, out of curiosity, where was/is that? Generally, last summer was
cooler than normal in most of the US...quite a lot for us w/ a very
few 100+F days as compared to normally 14 or so...

It was cold here as well, also a lot of overcast and rainy days.

missing summer

Jon

On Jan 5, 11:24*am, Van Chocstraw
wrote:
On 01/05/2010 08:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

The debate is over only for those who set themselves up for making big
profits from global warming and global climate change fear mongering.
They have all the ignorant third worlders in a tizzy over nothing.

Yep, all those ice packs and glaciers are melting just for spite.
Seems to me that things happen for a reason but it turns out that
there's no cause and effect for ice melting. Especially those big
chunks of ice. They just come and go as they please regardless of what
the mean temperature of the planet is. Go figure.

"BobR" wrote in message
...
On Jan 5, 12:43 pm, "Master Betty" wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message

...

Master Betty wrote:
...
It didn't let up. 52 consectutive days of over 100 degrees. Last summer
was the worst ever!

For what definition of "ever"?

--

Goodpoint.

I've been here 6 years and, I always thought it was hot here, but last
summer took the prize.

From what I've heard it was the hottest in "recorded" history. Some time
in
the 1800s they started record keeping. Easy to Google. I don't have to. I
lived it. It sucked. My a/c went out too.

AHHHHHHH, Now you have it defined. I would really really feel sorry
for you but I grew up in Temple and we NEVER had an A/C unit to go
out. Guess I became acclimated to the heat and don't notice it nearly
as much as this DAMN COLD. I also don't put too much faith in this
"Hottest in Recorded History" since the record keeping has always been
spotty at best. There is also the issue of the accuracy of our
current temperature guaging stations which have been found to NOT
conform to standards for placement and maintenance. Seems that a lot
of the standard temperature stations are setup in or near parking lots
and external heat sources that call their readings into question.

=======

I could tell you were not "in" Central TX.

http://www.kwtx.com/blogs/weatherblog/48905197.html

In , The Daring Dufas wrote:

This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

Birmingham sometimes gets cold. A few times a decade, maybe every
other year the Orlando area gets down to freezing.

Miami got snow flurries in January 1977.

Birmingham (or at least parts of its immediate metro area) even got
10 inches of snow from the Blizzard of 1993.

Stuff like this sometimes happens.

======================

We are in the temperate zone. The word "temperate" works like the word
"flammable". "Flammable" means "inflammable". "Temperate" means
"intemperate" if that word exists, otherwise "intemperant". The
"temperate zone" is where the weather has a temper.

======================

Birmingham AL is in the part of USA that gets wacky weather - namely the
part east of the Pacific Ocean.

======================

The Southern tier of USA is normally on the chilly side during an El
Nino winter (which we have).
We also have the Arctic Oscillation and the North Atlantic Oscillation
(not the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation) being low - favoring central
and eastern part of USA being cold.

This looks like a "triple whammy" that sometimes happens.

======================

Latest monthly global temperature, by the least-warming of the 5 major
global temperature change indixes (V. 5.2 of UAH determination of lower
troposphere temperature from MSU/AMSU satellite data), for December 2009,
is .28 degree C warmer than its baseline of 1979-1998 average. The year
2009 has average of its 12 months for this index .27 degree C warmer than
that baseline.

http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/uahncdc.lt

http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

Note that Dr. Roy Spencer is one of the two PhD professors at UAH in
charge of this major global temperature trend index. It appears to me
that he is skeptical of existence of anthropogenic global warming.

- Don Klipstein )

In article , Master Betty wrote:

"Frank" wrote in message
...
On 1/5/2010 8:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

The Global warming alarmists will tell you that weather extremes are
caused by global warming

True....We're having an unusually cold winter and last summer was the
hottest on record. Weird. I hope we never have another summer like the last
one. This cold weather is a nice change. Not good for citrus farmers though.

It appears to me that 90% of the $#!+ that has happened with weather in
recent years is blamed on global warming in the news media but appears to
me to be merely $#!+ that happens with weather along lines of what it has
always done.

For example, I have seen global warming being blamed for more intense
snowstorms in "Northeast Corridor" USA in recent years. I see that uptick
being caused by how ocean temperature patterns in the North Pacific have
been in recent years, as affected mostly by the decadal (period over a
decade, closer to a couple decades) and multidecadal (period ~60 year
ballpark) components of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.

When that pattern shifts to something else, it will be somewhere else's
turn to get bad winter weather.

(Also - I expect global temperatures to be taking a break from the
rising trend from a few years ago to around 2030, due to another natural
cycle - the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (period around 65 years).

- Don Klipstein )

On 1/5/2010 7:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

Just glance at http://www.crsales.com/weather.htm every once in awhile
and you can see what the temp and more is in SE Iowa. It was 8.4 degrees
F when I posted this at 6:10 CST.

Don

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 23:52:51 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In , The Daring Dufas wrote:

This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

Birmingham sometimes gets cold. A few times a decade, maybe every
other year the Orlando area gets down to freezing.


REAL cold. Almost like Phenix City, Alabama. Orlando farmers are
running sprinklers to save strawberries and citrus.

Miami got snow flurries in January 1977.


Seen it with my own eyes. Cold as hell

Birmingham (or at least parts of its immediate metro area) even got
10 inches of snow from the Blizzard of 1993.

Stuff like this sometimes happens.

Central PA we had a tundra that year... got pictures...

'The Perfect Storm" Once boss slept under her desk, others on the
floor.

Me? I drove back and forth and there were no vehicles on the highway.
The PA interstate was shut down. Emergency travel only.

Don't get me started about climate change in Lake Placid/Saranac Lake,
NY 1990. Summer was on the 4th of July.

On Jan 5, 7:05�pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In article , Master Betty wrote:

"Frank" wrote in message
...
On 1/5/2010 8:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15 F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

The Global warming alarmists will tell you that weather extremes are
caused by global warming

True....We're having an unusually cold winter and last summer was the
hottest on record. Weird. I hope we never have another summer like the last
one. This cold weather is a nice change. Not good for citrus farmers though.

� It appears to me that 90% of the $#!+ that has happened with weather in
recent years is blamed on global warming in the news media but appears to
me to be merely $#!+ that happens with weather along lines of what it has
always done.

� For example, I have seen global warming being blamed for more intense
snowstorms in "Northeast Corridor" USA in recent years. �I see that uptick
being caused by how ocean temperature patterns in the North Pacific have
been in recent years, as affected mostly by the decadal (period over a
decade, closer to a couple decades) and multidecadal (period ~60 year
ballpark) components of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.

� When that pattern shifts to something else, it will be somewhere else's
turn to get bad winter weather.

� (Also - I expect global temperatures to be taking a break from the
rising trend from a few years ago to around 2030, due to another natural
cycle - the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (period around 65 years).

�- Don Klipstein )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ahh I have a different view

The republicans have been the naysayers, no global warming ignore it.
republicans represent the wealthy.

republicans and are last president had no interest in our economic
dump till it hit the wall street wealthy.

well when the wall street weathy get their 2 grand shoes wet going to
work, after all wall street is at near sea level, and new york floods,
suddendly republicans will get on the global warming bandwagon.

we will know one way or another in a few years.............

meantime why worry about it??

after all that same approach worked so well for the sub prime meltdown
that caused our economic dump..........

yeah everything is fine dont worry about it

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:08:14 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

On 1/5/2010 7:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

Just glance at http://www.crsales.com/weather.htm every once in awhile
and you can see what the temp and more is in SE Iowa. It was 8.4 degrees
F when I posted this at 6:10 CST.

Don

It was 8.2 degrees F at 6:13 CST.

In ,
BobR wrote:
On Jan 5, 8:16*am, "Master Betty" wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message

...

On 1/5/2010 8:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

The Global warming alarmists will tell you that weather extremes are
caused by global warming

True....We're having an unusually cold winter and last summer was the
hottest on record. Weird. I hope we never have another summer like the last
one. This cold weather is a nice change. Not good for citrus farmers though.

Don't know where you are located but last summer wasn't anywhere near
a record around here but it is turning into a really cold winter.
That said, neither the summer or this winter is anything that I
haven't seen several times in my 63 years. I have seen many summers
that were worse and many winters that were worse. Overall, I haven't
seen any significant change in the last 50 years. Personally, a
little warming wouldn't hurt my feelings any.

This year reminds me a little of 1976 and the winter of 1976-1977.

In 1976, after a mild winter and a freakish record-smashing April
heatwave, it got on the cool side in Philadelphia. That summer is the
coolest in my memory. I don't know off-hand what the June-July-August
stretch average temperature was for 1976 or is long-term in Philadelphia,
but that summer was cool Highest temperature that summer in Philadelphia
was 93 degrees F. Nearly all years have at least one day achieving 95 and
a majority have at least one day achieving 97 in my experience. Highest
temperature that Philadelphia officially achieved in 1976 was 94 degrees F
on April 18th.

The following fall was chilly, with an October somewhat like November,
and a November more like December.

The following winter was colder than all prior ones since 1874, despite
a February warmup that was almost "spring coming very early". January
1977 was Philadelphia's coldest January. Miami got snow flurries that
month - according to the news media, for the first time on record.

Globally, 1976 was merely the coolest year since 1964 (and there were no
cooler years afterwards).

- Don Klipstein )

wrote:

Ahh I have a different view

The republicans have been the naysayers, no global warming ignore it.
republicans represent the wealthy.

republicans and are last president had no interest in our economic
dump till it hit the wall street wealthy.

well when the wall street weathy get their 2 grand shoes wet going to
work, after all wall street is at near sea level, and new york floods,
suddendly republicans will get on the global warming bandwagon.

we will know one way or another in a few years.............

meantime why worry about it??

after all that same approach worked so well for the sub prime meltdown
that caused our economic dump..........

yeah everything is fine dont worry about it

Slight correction: Republicans represent not only the wealthy, but also
those who want to become wealthy. Democrats tend to provide for the general
welfare through the treasury; Republicans tend to promote the general
welfare through the economy.

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:14:42 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

well when the wall street weathy get their 2 grand shoes wet going to
work, after all wall street is at near sea level, and new york floods,
suddendly republicans will get on the global warming bandwagon.

Didn't you know they wear flip flops/tennis shoes to work and change
shoes in the office?! Why risk the loss of gator hide shoes or
anaconda skin cowboy boots or the risk of being mugged for the shoes.
Jeez!

You can always tell a wall streeter in China Town. They stand taller
than most people.

In , AZ Nomad
wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 13:10:23 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I was working in the Los Angeles area in 1989 when it snowed! The little
Mexican kids were very confused. Must have been Global Cooling.

I was there too. It never snowed. Perhaps you confuse hail w/ snow.

I hear of snow falling in the LA area (probably only part of it) maybe
every 10-20 years or so.

- Don Klipstein )

In , Master Betty wrote in part:

I also don't put too much faith in this
"Hottest in Recorded History" since the record keeping has always been
spotty at best. There is also the issue of the accuracy of our
current temperature guaging stations which have been found to NOT
conform to standards for placement and maintenance. Seems that a lot
of the standard temperature stations are setup in or near parking lots
and external heat sources that call their readings into question.

2/3 of the world's surface is ocean, where that is not a problem, and
there are measurements for that considered in the three major surface
indices of global temperature trends.

Sea surface alone, by Hadley Cent

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadsst2/.../global/nh+sh/

Whole world, same source:

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcrut3.../global/nh+sh/

Since ocean mass causes lag in temperature change, especially in
longer-term effects as opposed to year/decade/multidecade scale effects
*caused* by oceanic oscillations and random variations in current flows,
it appears to me understandable how the recent warming trend affected
ocean less than land.

- Don Klipstein )

On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 00:50:55 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

I was working in the Los Angeles area in 1989 when it snowed! The little
Mexican kids were very confused. Must have been Global Cooling.

I was there too. It never snowed. Perhaps you confuse hail w/ snow.

I hear of snow falling in the LA area (probably only part of it) maybe
every 10-20 years or so.

December 2008*

Last year I got 8" of snow in Las Vegas. Prior, in another house some
years ago it also snowed with 6-8" that stuck and drove people crazy.
They couldn't drive safely.

pic:

http://access.nscpcdn.com/gallery/i/...as/vegas00.jpg

We love tourist.

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:03:04 -0800, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 00:50:55 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

I was working in the Los Angeles area in 1989 when it snowed! The little
Mexican kids were very confused. Must have been Global Cooling.

I was there too. It never snowed. Perhaps you confuse hail w/ snow.

I hear of snow falling in the LA area (probably only part of it) maybe
every 10-20 years or so.

December 2008*

Last year I got 8" of snow in Las Vegas. Prior, in another house some
years ago it also snowed with 6-8" that stuck and drove people crazy.
They couldn't drive safely.

That must have been wild. Southern california gets 50-100 car
pile-ups when it rains. I can't imagine what snow in LV was like.

(actually the pileups in socal were due to fog. A coworker who drove
in it said that on day 1 they'd drive 25mph; day 2 45mph; day 3 back to
60mph with 1 carlength tailgateing then they'd have their pileup)

You know, that sounds reasonable.

Dems also appear to want to tax everyone so that the weather
will improve.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

Slight correction: Republicans represent not only the
wealthy, but also
those who want to become wealthy. Democrats tend to provide
for the general
welfare through the treasury; Republicans tend to promote
the general
welfare through the economy.

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:27:03 -0600, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:03:04 -0800, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 00:50:55 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

I was working in the Los Angeles area in 1989 when it snowed! The little
Mexican kids were very confused. Must have been Global Cooling.

I was there too. It never snowed. Perhaps you confuse hail w/ snow.

I hear of snow falling in the LA area (probably only part of it) maybe
every 10-20 years or so.

December 2008*

Last year I got 8" of snow in Las Vegas. Prior, in another house some
years ago it also snowed with 6-8" that stuck and drove people crazy.
They couldn't drive safely.

That must have been wild. Southern california gets 50-100 car
pile-ups when it rains. I can't imagine what snow in LV was like.

(actually the pileups in socal were due to fog. A coworker who drove
in it said that on day 1 they'd drive 25mph; day 2 45mph; day 3 back to
60mph with 1 carlength tailgateing then they'd have their pileup)

We get so little rain here, a 1/3 inch will send people into wrecks.
The roads soak up the oil and when it does eventually rain the cars go
crazy. People can't text, change clothes, put on make up or touch
themselves. I stay home.

Once this year we actually got a "good rain" that lasted most of the
day. no way would I go out there and tussle with those drivers.

I'm the same about New Years Eve. Of course, some snow
events are wicked, too.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Oren" wrote in message
...

We get so little rain here, a 1/3 inch will send people into
wrecks.
The roads soak up the oil and when it does eventually rain
the cars go
crazy. People can't text, change clothes, put on make up or
touch
themselves. I stay home.

Once this year we actually got a "good rain" that lasted
most of the
day. no way would I go out there and tussle with those
drivers.

On Jan 5, 5:20*pm, Van Chocstraw
wrote:
hibb wrote:
On Jan 5, 11:24 am, Van
wrote:
On 01/05/2010 08:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15 F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

The debate is over only for those who set themselves up for making big
profits from global warming and global climate change fear mongering.
They have all the ignorant third worlders in a tizzy over nothing.

Yep, all those ice packs and glaciers are melting just for spite.
Seems to me that things happen for a reason but it turns out that
there's no cause and effect for ice melting. Especially those big
chunks of ice. They just come and go as they please regardless of what
the mean temperature of the planet is. Go figure.

What happened to the mile high sheet of ice over New York? Global
warming? Climate Change? Cause by what? Cave man urine? Mastodon farts?
There ain't that much ice left, it's loss is inconsequential.

LOL, it's loss is inconsequential? There were plenty of consequences
to losing the ice sheet over New York. Probably the worst of which is
something called the New York Yankees.

Maybe if you thought about it a little bit you could come up with a
plausible reason the ice sheet made it down that far into North
America in the first place. Or maybe you think glaciers and Ice Sheets
are magical and don't react the same as an ice cube you take out of
the freezer.

"Van Chocstraw" wrote in message
...
hibb wrote:
On Jan 5, 11:24 am, Van
wrote:
On 01/05/2010 08:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

The debate is over only for those who set themselves up for making big
profits from global warming and global climate change fear mongering.
They have all the ignorant third worlders in a tizzy over nothing.

Yep, all those ice packs and glaciers are melting just for spite.
Seems to me that things happen for a reason but it turns out that
there's no cause and effect for ice melting. Especially those big
chunks of ice. They just come and go as they please regardless of what
the mean temperature of the planet is. Go figure.


What happened to the mile high sheet of ice over New York? Global warming?
Climate Change? Cause by what? Cave man urine? Mastodon farts?
There ain't that much ice left, it's loss is inconsequential.

Excuse me professor but:

It took thousands of years for ice ages to begin and end. GW (or what ever
the f%$k is happening) is happening right now.

Do a little research while you're pulling your foot out of your mouth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

On Jan 5, 6:05*pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In article , Master Betty wrote:

"Frank" wrote in message
...
On 1/5/2010 8:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

The Global warming alarmists will tell you that weather extremes are
caused by global warming

True....We're having an unusually cold winter and last summer was the
hottest on record. Weird. I hope we never have another summer like the last
one. This cold weather is a nice change. Not good for citrus farmers though.

* It appears to me that 90% of the $#!+ that has happened with weather in
recent years is blamed on global warming in the news media but appears to
me to be merely $#!+ that happens with weather along lines of what it has
always done.


That's because you aren't looking for grant money for a research
project.

* For example, I have seen global warming being blamed for more intense
snowstorms in "Northeast Corridor" USA in recent years. *I see that uptick
being caused by how ocean temperature patterns in the North Pacific have
been in recent years, as affected mostly by the decadal (period over a
decade, closer to a couple decades) and multidecadal (period ~60 year
ballpark) components of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.

* When that pattern shifts to something else, it will be somewhere else's
turn to get bad winter weather.

* (Also - I expect global temperatures to be taking a break from the
rising trend from a few years ago to around 2030, due to another natural
cycle - the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (period around 65 years).

*- Don Klipstein )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

US Weather Bureau Report
The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in
some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a
report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at
Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he
declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and
hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration
expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far
north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters
showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been
replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while
at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few
seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast
shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far
north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.


I am sorry, I neglected to mention that this report was from November
2, 1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post.
For a complete background read extensive reports at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/1...icebergs-melt/

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 07:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

In northeast Texas, Thursday's forecast has a low of 14. According to
an article in the local paper, it's a lot warmer in Antarctica.

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
...

It's good to hear other places are doing better.

If it would of have rained more we would of got a break, but Central TX
is having a bad drought, and hot weather. Brushfires scare me.

...

Again, too short a time span to tell much, if anything. And, w/ records
as short as those like here, it's not even possible to say that what
you're experiencing is anything particularly out of the ordinary. What
seems long in an individual's experience isn't a microsecond in geologic
terms. The native Americans told the early settlers here the good times
of the early 1900s wouldn't last because they had legend and oral history
that went back hundreds of years not just the lifetimes of the current
elders.

IOW, "this, too, shall pass"...


As for the grassfires, we worry all the time over that for sure. But,
again, one has to look at it in perspective. They're only a serious
problem because there are now permanent residents and structures where
before there were nomads and other wildlife.

I don't know precisely the estimated times there but here generally any
givem area could have expected to have burned about every 5-7 years. I
doubt it was too much greater for a lot of that country down there altho
probably fires didn't cover as extensive an area owing to more natural
barriers and that thunderstorms there generally do have sufficient rain w/
them to put out fires after a while whereas we have a lot of dry t-storms.

Since the house sits in the middle of several miles of grass in all
directions w/ only a road on one side of the place closer than a full
mile, we keep close eye out when it gets dry.

--

I'm surrounded by green belt here in Austin. Damn trees!

There are accurate detailed records in polar ice caps (co2 concentrations,
temperature, precipitation, volcanic activity) and ancient tree rings.

Master Betty wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
...

It's good to hear other places are doing better.

If it would of have rained more we would of got a break, but Central TX
is having a bad drought, and hot weather. Brushfires scare me.

...

Again, too short a time span to tell much, if anything. And, w/ records
as short as those like here, it's not even possible to say that what
you're experiencing is anything particularly out of the ordinary. What
seems long in an individual's experience isn't a microsecond in geologic
terms. The native Americans told the early settlers here the good times
of the early 1900s wouldn't last because they had legend and oral history
that went back hundreds of years not just the lifetimes of the current
elders.

IOW, "this, too, shall pass"...


As for the grassfires, we worry all the time over that for sure. But,
again, one has to look at it in perspective. They're only a serious
problem because there are now permanent residents and structures where
before there were nomads and other wildlife.

I don't know precisely the estimated times there but here generally any
givem area could have expected to have burned about every 5-7 years. I
doubt it was too much greater for a lot of that country down there altho
probably fires didn't cover as extensive an area owing to more natural
barriers and that thunderstorms there generally do have sufficient rain w/
them to put out fires after a while whereas we have a lot of dry t-storms.

Since the house sits in the middle of several miles of grass in all
directions w/ only a road on one side of the place closer than a full
mile, we keep close eye out when it gets dry.

--

I'm surrounded by green belt here in Austin. Damn trees!

There are accurate detailed records in polar ice caps (co2 concentrations,
temperature, precipitation, volcanic activity) and ancient tree rings.

There are reasonable approximations in those ice caps, and tree rings -
there is not anywhere near the accuracy needed to support the claims
that are being made.

On 1/5/2010 6:16 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:08:14 -0600, wrote:

On 1/5/2010 7:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

Just glance at http://www.crsales.com/weather.htm every once in awhile
and you can see what the temp and more is in SE Iowa. It was 8.4 degrees
F when I posted this at 6:10 CST.

Don

It was 8.2 degrees F at 6:13 CST.

And at 11:00 PM CST it is -1.6 degrees F! :-(

Don

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Master Betty wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
...

It's good to hear other places are doing better.

If it would of have rained more we would of got a break, but Central
TX
is having a bad drought, and hot weather. Brushfires scare me.

...

Again, too short a time span to tell much, if anything. And, w/
records
as short as those like here, it's not even possible to say that what
you're experiencing is anything particularly out of the ordinary. What
seems long in an individual's experience isn't a microsecond in
geologic
terms. The native Americans told the early settlers here the good
times
of the early 1900s wouldn't last because they had legend and oral
history
that went back hundreds of years not just the lifetimes of the current
elders.

IOW, "this, too, shall pass"...


As for the grassfires, we worry all the time over that for sure. But,
again, one has to look at it in perspective. They're only a serious
problem because there are now permanent residents and structures where
before there were nomads and other wildlife.

I don't know precisely the estimated times there but here generally any
givem area could have expected to have burned about every 5-7 years. I
doubt it was too much greater for a lot of that country down there
altho
probably fires didn't cover as extensive an area owing to more natural
barriers and that thunderstorms there generally do have sufficient rain
w/
them to put out fires after a while whereas we have a lot of dry
t-storms.

Since the house sits in the middle of several miles of grass in all
directions w/ only a road on one side of the place closer than a full
mile, we keep close eye out when it gets dry.

--

I'm surrounded by green belt here in Austin. Damn trees!

There are accurate detailed records in polar ice caps (co2
concentrations,
temperature, precipitation, volcanic activity) and ancient tree rings.

There are reasonable approximations in those ice caps, and tree rings -
there is not anywhere near the accuracy needed to support the claims
that are being made.

No...the records are accurate it the interpretation that's flawed. Geologist
can put events together with meteorological events and reasonable
conclusions can be made. The study of the earth has been going on for some
time now.

Master Betty wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Master Betty wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
...

It's good to hear other places are doing better.

If it would of have rained more we would of got a break, but
Central TX
is having a bad drought, and hot weather. Brushfires scare me.

...

Again, too short a time span to tell much, if anything. And, w/
records
as short as those like here, it's not even possible to say that what
you're experiencing is anything particularly out of the ordinary.
What
seems long in an individual's experience isn't a microsecond in
geologic
terms. The native Americans told the early settlers here the good
times
of the early 1900s wouldn't last because they had legend and oral
history
that went back hundreds of years not just the lifetimes of the current
elders.

IOW, "this, too, shall pass"...


As for the grassfires, we worry all the time over that for sure. But,
again, one has to look at it in perspective. They're only a serious
problem because there are now permanent residents and structures where
before there were nomads and other wildlife.

I don't know precisely the estimated times there but here generally
any
givem area could have expected to have burned about every 5-7
years. I
doubt it was too much greater for a lot of that country down there
altho
probably fires didn't cover as extensive an area owing to more natural
barriers and that thunderstorms there generally do have sufficient
rain w/
them to put out fires after a while whereas we have a lot of dry
t-storms.

Since the house sits in the middle of several miles of grass in all
directions w/ only a road on one side of the place closer than a full
mile, we keep close eye out when it gets dry.

--

I'm surrounded by green belt here in Austin. Damn trees!

There are accurate detailed records in polar ice caps (co2
concentrations,
temperature, precipitation, volcanic activity) and ancient tree rings.

There are reasonable approximations in those ice caps, and tree rings -
there is not anywhere near the accuracy needed to support the claims
that are being made.

No...the records are accurate it the interpretation that's flawed.
Geologist can put events together with meteorological events and
reasonable conclusions can be made. The study of the earth has been
going on for some time now.

And the interesting thing is that the CO2 concentration rises and falls
in a lagging (by several hundred years or so) the corresponding
temperature changes. Hence, there's no possibility that these records
can be used to show that rising CO2 caused global warming as that would
violate the principal of causality.

(Assuming that's your point in bringing up something totally foreign to
the general gist of the thread to date....)

--

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Master Betty wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
...

It's good to hear other places are doing better.

If it would of have rained more we would of got a break, but
Central TX
is having a bad drought, and hot weather. Brushfires scare me.

...

Again, too short a time span to tell much, if anything. And, w/
records
as short as those like here, it's not even possible to say that what
you're experiencing is anything particularly out of the ordinary.
What
seems long in an individual's experience isn't a microsecond in
geologic
terms. The native Americans told the early settlers here the good
times
of the early 1900s wouldn't last because they had legend and oral
history
that went back hundreds of years not just the lifetimes of the
current
elders.

IOW, "this, too, shall pass"...


As for the grassfires, we worry all the time over that for sure.
But,
again, one has to look at it in perspective. They're only a serious
problem because there are now permanent residents and structures
where
before there were nomads and other wildlife.

I don't know precisely the estimated times there but here generally
any
givem area could have expected to have burned about every 5-7
years. I
doubt it was too much greater for a lot of that country down there
altho
probably fires didn't cover as extensive an area owing to more
natural
barriers and that thunderstorms there generally do have sufficient
rain w/
them to put out fires after a while whereas we have a lot of dry
t-storms.

Since the house sits in the middle of several miles of grass in all
directions w/ only a road on one side of the place closer than a full
mile, we keep close eye out when it gets dry.

--

I'm surrounded by green belt here in Austin. Damn trees!

There are accurate detailed records in polar ice caps (co2
concentrations,
temperature, precipitation, volcanic activity) and ancient tree rings.

There are reasonable approximations in those ice caps, and tree rings -
there is not anywhere near the accuracy needed to support the claims
that are being made.

No...the records are accurate it the interpretation that's flawed.
Geologist can put events together with meteorological events and
reasonable conclusions can be made. The study of the earth has been going
on for some time now.

And the interesting thing is that the CO2 concentration rises and falls in
a lagging (by several hundred years or so) the corresponding temperature
changes. Hence, there's no possibility that these records can be used to
show that rising CO2 caused global warming as that would violate the
principal of causality.

(Assuming that's your point in bringing up something totally foreign to
the general gist of the thread to date....)

--

The changes were gradual because they were induced by geological events as
opposed to overpopulation. Man is more efficient. See...I knew I could find
something positive to say.

"Damn trees! They killed Kenny! You *******s!"

wrote:
On Jan 5, 7:05�pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In article , Master Betty wrote:

"Frank" wrote in message
...
On 1/5/2010 8:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15 F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!
TDD
The Global warming alarmists will tell you that weather extremes are
caused by global warming
True....We're having an unusually cold winter and last summer was the
hottest on record. Weird. I hope we never have another summer like the last
one. This cold weather is a nice change. Not good for citrus farmers though.
� It appears to me that 90% of the $#!+ that has happened with weather in
recent years is blamed on global warming in the news media but appears to
me to be merely $#!+ that happens with weather along lines of what it has
always done.

� For example, I have seen global warming being blamed for more intense
snowstorms in "Northeast Corridor" USA in recent years. �I see that uptick
being caused by how ocean temperature patterns in the North Pacific have
been in recent years, as affected mostly by the decadal (period over a
decade, closer to a couple decades) and multidecadal (period ~60 year
ballpark) components of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.

� When that pattern shifts to something else, it will be somewhere else's
turn to get bad winter weather.

� (Also - I expect global temperatures to be taking a break from the
rising trend from a few years ago to around 2030, due to another natural
cycle - the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (period around 65 years).

�- Don Klipstein )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ahh I have a different view

The republicans have been the naysayers, no global warming ignore it.
republicans represent the wealthy.

republicans and are last president had no interest in our economic
dump till it hit the wall street wealthy.

well when the wall street weathy get their 2 grand shoes wet going to
work, after all wall street is at near sea level, and new york floods,
suddendly republicans will get on the global warming bandwagon.

we will know one way or another in a few years.............

meantime why worry about it??

after all that same approach worked so well for the sub prime meltdown
that caused our economic dump..........

yeah everything is fine dont worry about it

Darn those pesky wealthy Republicans! It's all their fault, they caused
Global Warming because they're greedy and Global Warming will make them
richer. The government should take all their money away from them and
give it to people who don't work because people who don't work don't
produce any greenhouse gases. Darn those pesky rich Republicans, how
dare they enjoy the fruits of their labor when Democrats who produce
nothing and don't work hard or strive to improve themselves go without
fancy clothes, homes and cars.

TDD

IGot2P wrote:
On 1/5/2010 7:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

Just glance at http://www.crsales.com/weather.htm every once in awhile
and you can see what the temp and more is in SE Iowa. It was 8.4 degrees
F when I posted this at 6:10 CST.

Don


Just a little while ago it was 17° F now it dropped to 16° F at 6:50am.
Darn that Al Gore, he let out all his hot air which escaped into space
and now the darn country is colder. He should have kept his mouth shut.

TDD

IGot2P wrote:
On 1/5/2010 6:16 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:08:14 -0600, wrote:

On 1/5/2010 7:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

Just glance at http://www.crsales.com/weather.htm every once in awhile
and you can see what the temp and more is in SE Iowa. It was 8.4 degrees
F when I posted this at 6:10 CST.

Don

It was 8.2 degrees F at 6:13 CST.

And at 11:00 PM CST it is -1.6 degrees F! :-(

Don




Us dang Hillbillies ain't used to this here below freezin weather. Darn
hound dog stuck to the porch and I had to pry him up. Coon huntin ain't
no fun when the cottin pickin critters shatter when ya shoot em.

TDD

Think of all the freon they must have vented back then!
Zero. Freon started in the forties.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"BobR" wrote in message
...

US Weather Bureau Report
The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing
scarcer and in
some places the seals are finding the water too hot,
according to a
report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul
Ifft, at
Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and
explorers, he
declared, all point to a radical change in climate
conditions and
hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone.
Exploration
expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with
as far
north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of
3,100 meters
showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice
have been
replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report
continued, while
at many points well known glaciers have entirely
disappeared. Very few
seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic,
while vast
shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before
ventured so far
north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing
grounds.


I am sorry, I neglected to mention that this report was from
November
2, 1922 as reported by the AP and published in The
Washington Post.
For a complete background read extensive reports at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/1...icebergs-melt/

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 10:28:10 -0600, Red Green wrote:

Jules wrote in
news
On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:49:27 -0800, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
I don't bother to pay attention until the snot freezes right
in my nose. Then I know it's the low single digits or less.

Ha, that's basically how I do it. Once I go outside and feel the
inside of my nose freeze, it's just cold and it doesn't really matter
how cold it is...

We hit -35 the other morning. Then it got to about 0 yesterday and it
felt like t-shirt weather.

Used to see rejoicing when temp got up to 15F. Road salt would start to
work.

I don't know what they use around here, but it seems to work despite it
sitting at zero or below for weeks on end. Maybe they just run the plows
very close to the road surface and the stuff they spread has an
abrasive quality which provides grip and wears away any thin layer of ice
as vehicles travel over it? Or maybe the 'salt' (whatever the stuff is
they actually use) still works at very low temps, but not so well and can
only help on a very thin layer of ice (in other words they'd be screwed if
they didn't keep spreading it over and over and let the ice get thick)?

cheers

Jules

Master Betty wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Master Betty wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
...

It's good to hear other places are doing better.

If it would of have rained more we would of got a break, but Central
TX
is having a bad drought, and hot weather. Brushfires scare me.

...

Again, too short a time span to tell much, if anything. And, w/
records
as short as those like here, it's not even possible to say that what
you're experiencing is anything particularly out of the ordinary. What
seems long in an individual's experience isn't a microsecond in
geologic
terms. The native Americans told the early settlers here the good
times
of the early 1900s wouldn't last because they had legend and oral
history
that went back hundreds of years not just the lifetimes of the current
elders.

IOW, "this, too, shall pass"...


As for the grassfires, we worry all the time over that for sure. But,
again, one has to look at it in perspective. They're only a serious
problem because there are now permanent residents and structures where
before there were nomads and other wildlife.

I don't know precisely the estimated times there but here generally any
givem area could have expected to have burned about every 5-7 years. I
doubt it was too much greater for a lot of that country down there
altho
probably fires didn't cover as extensive an area owing to more natural
barriers and that thunderstorms there generally do have sufficient rain
w/
them to put out fires after a while whereas we have a lot of dry
t-storms.

Since the house sits in the middle of several miles of grass in all
directions w/ only a road on one side of the place closer than a full
mile, we keep close eye out when it gets dry.

--

I'm surrounded by green belt here in Austin. Damn trees!

There are accurate detailed records in polar ice caps (co2
concentrations,
temperature, precipitation, volcanic activity) and ancient tree rings.

There are reasonable approximations in those ice caps, and tree rings -
there is not anywhere near the accuracy needed to support the claims
that are being made.

No...the records are accurate it the interpretation that's flawed. Geologist
can put events together with meteorological events and reasonable
conclusions can be made. The study of the earth has been going on for some
time now.

The claims that are being made about global temperature are in tenths of
a degree F.

Accurate records of temperature over a sufficient number of sample
points on the planet do not go back very far at all. Further back you
have accurate temps from a few scattered points on the planet going back
perhaps 150 years, and prior to that you have only approximate
information. The ice and trees do not provide the detail to judge the
temperature at particular times to tenths of a degree F, more like +/-
10.0 F.

On Jan 5, 11:58*am, Tony wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Red Green wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
news:hhveg7$2v7
:

This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

NC I95, almost SC. Lower 20's nightly for like a week. About 10
degrees lower than the avg for this time in Jan. 14 slated for weekend..

...on the bright side

don't have a "-" in front of that 20 like I've experienced many years
up north. And don't have 33" of snow like S.O. had last weekend either..

We get a bunch of Damn Yankees coming down here from time to time
and when they see how beautiful it is, we can't get those suckers
to leave. *snicker*

TDD

I thought we were just "Yankees" when we visit and "Damn Yankees" when
we stay? *I'm a Damn Yankee... unless this weather stays so damn cold!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That reminds me of a "Damn Yankee" neighbor I had for many years. He
constantly complained about living in Texas, the heat, the humidity,
everything for years on end. Then came the opportunity for him to
return to his former home when his company offered him a transfer back
home. It was a promotion with a nice increase in pay but was also a
take it or you are out proposal since they were closing the local
operations down. Suddenly, this log term hate the heat, humidity, and
lack of a winter advocate decides that it ain't so bad after all,
resigned his job and became a very satisfied "Damn Yankee". He never
complained again and has now retired here. Seems that his memories of
the bitter cold were reason enough to forget the heat of summer.