On 1/6/2010 6:54 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
IGot2P wrote:
On 1/5/2010 7:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

Just glance at http://www.crsales.com/weather.htm every once in awhile
and you can see what the temp and more is in SE Iowa. It was 8.4
degrees F when I posted this at 6:10 CST.

Don


Just a little while ago it was 17° F now it dropped to 16° F at 6:50am.
Darn that Al Gore, he let out all his hot air which escaped into space
and now the darn country is colder. He should have kept his mouth shut.

TDD

Yeah, we are in a heat wave right now. My history records shows that we
went from -2.7 this morning at 2:22 AM to +16.8 now at 10:30 AM. OTOH,
it appears that it is going to start snowing quite soon. :-(

Don

The Daring Dufas wrote:
Darn those pesky rich Republicans, how
dare they enjoy the fruits of their labor when Democrats who produce
nothing and don't work hard or strive to improve themselves go without
fancy clothes, homes and cars.

What is really sad is when one believes fancy clothes, homes, and cars
improve a person.

In article ,
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

dpb wrote:
Master Betty wrote:
...

True....We're having an unusually cold winter and last summer was the
hottest on record. Weird. I hope we never have another summer like
the last one. This cold weather is a nice change. Not good for
citrus farmers though.

OK, out of curiosity, where was/is that? Generally, last summer was
cooler than normal in most of the US...quite a lot for us w/ a very
few 100+F days as compared to normally 14 or so...

It was cold here as well, also a lot of overcast and rainy days.

missing summer

Jon

Brutal here, also. Last week was nice, around 75, but it barely got to
70 yesterday. Forecast for the rest of the week is showing highs in the
high 60's. Definitely had to break out the long-sleeved shirts.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Think of all the freon they must have vented back then!
Zero. Freon started in the forties.

You're missing the point. The ban on Freon was to prevent penguin sunburns.
Had nothing to do with global warming.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Master Betty wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Master Betty wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
...

It's good to hear other places are doing better.

If it would of have rained more we would of got a break, but
Central
TX
is having a bad drought, and hot weather. Brushfires scare me.

...

Again, too short a time span to tell much, if anything. And, w/
records
as short as those like here, it's not even possible to say that what
you're experiencing is anything particularly out of the ordinary.
What
seems long in an individual's experience isn't a microsecond in
geologic
terms. The native Americans told the early settlers here the good
times
of the early 1900s wouldn't last because they had legend and oral
history
that went back hundreds of years not just the lifetimes of the
current
elders.

IOW, "this, too, shall pass"...


As for the grassfires, we worry all the time over that for sure.
But,
again, one has to look at it in perspective. They're only a serious
problem because there are now permanent residents and structures
where
before there were nomads and other wildlife.

I don't know precisely the estimated times there but here generally
any
givem area could have expected to have burned about every 5-7 years.
I
doubt it was too much greater for a lot of that country down there
altho
probably fires didn't cover as extensive an area owing to more
natural
barriers and that thunderstorms there generally do have sufficient
rain
w/
them to put out fires after a while whereas we have a lot of dry
t-storms.

Since the house sits in the middle of several miles of grass in all
directions w/ only a road on one side of the place closer than a
full
mile, we keep close eye out when it gets dry.

--

I'm surrounded by green belt here in Austin. Damn trees!

There are accurate detailed records in polar ice caps (co2
concentrations,
temperature, precipitation, volcanic activity) and ancient tree rings.

There are reasonable approximations in those ice caps, and tree rings -
there is not anywhere near the accuracy needed to support the claims
that are being made.

No...the records are accurate it the interpretation that's flawed.
Geologist
can put events together with meteorological events and reasonable
conclusions can be made. The study of the earth has been going on for
some
time now.

The claims that are being made about global temperature are in tenths of
a degree F.

Accurate records of temperature over a sufficient number of sample
points on the planet do not go back very far at all. Further back you
have accurate temps from a few scattered points on the planet going back
perhaps 150 years, and prior to that you have only approximate
information. The ice and trees do not provide the detail to judge the
temperature at particular times to tenths of a degree F, more like +/-
10.0 F.

Of course you're right. Errors are possible. When you put the whole picture
together, ice samples and tree rings, can verify hypothesis, might be a
better way to put it.

But....when you look at the "records" they have no other option but to be
accurate. I mean....how can you fake a tree rings from ancient forests? Same
for properly analyzed ice samples. Human error? Of course.

Master Betty wrote:

Accurate records of temperature over a sufficient number of sample
points on the planet do not go back very far at all. Further back you
have accurate temps from a few scattered points on the planet going
back perhaps 150 years, and prior to that you have only approximate
information. The ice and trees do not provide the detail to judge the
temperature at particular times to tenths of a degree F, more like
+/- 10.0 F.

Of course you're right. Errors are possible. When you put the whole
picture together, ice samples and tree rings, can verify hypothesis,
might be a better way to put it.

But....when you look at the "records" they have no other option but
to be accurate. I mean....how can you fake a tree rings from ancient
forests? Same for properly analyzed ice samples. Human error? Of
course.

Oh, it's easy. Tree rings are not discrete lines on a board but rather fuzz
from one to the other. Where one draws the line is important. Further, tree
rings are conditioned by a number of factors other than temperatu
rainfall, absolute temperature, length of the growing season, etc. Third,
the trees were selected to have their rings measured by those with a vested
interest, Fourth, the rings were actually measured by those with that same
vested interest.

The gold standard for experimental verification of a hypothesis is a
double-blind study. Not done here. If I were collecting the data, I'd get
tree cores from 100 different trees in one acre, take pictures of the cores,
and give the pictures to a bunch of graduate students in a completely
different discipline (say, cello or elementary education) to measure, then
take an average of all the measurements.

Ah, maybe that's it. You're an idiot. (usenet apology).

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Think of all the freon they must have vented back then!
Zero. Freon started in the forties.

You're missing the point. The ban on Freon was to prevent
penguin sunburns.
Had nothing to do with global warming.

On Jan 6, 11:05*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*"Jon Danniken" wrote:





dpb wrote:
Master Betty wrote:
...

True....We're having an unusually cold winter and last summer was the
hottest on record. Weird. I hope we never have another summer like
the last one. This cold weather is a nice change. Not good for
citrus farmers though.

OK, out of curiosity, where was/is that? *Generally, last summer was
cooler than normal in most of the US...quite a lot for us w/ a very
few 100+F days as compared to normally 14 or so...

It was cold here as well, also a lot of overcast and rainy days.

missing summer

Jon

Brutal here, also. Last week was nice, around 75, but it barely got to
70 yesterday. Forecast for the rest of the week is showing highs in the
high 60's. Definitely had to break out the long-sleeved shirts.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you are really in dire need, I have an extra pair of thermal
underwear left over from a ski trip a couple of years back.

In article , dpb wrote:
Master Betty wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Master Betty wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
...

It's good to hear other places are doing better.

If it would of have rained more we would of got a break, but
Central TX
is having a bad drought, and hot weather. Brushfires scare me.

...

Again, too short a time span to tell much, if anything. And, w/
records
as short as those like here, it's not even possible to say that what
you're experiencing is anything particularly out of the ordinary.
What
seems long in an individual's experience isn't a microsecond in
geologic
terms. The native Americans told the early settlers here the good
times
of the early 1900s wouldn't last because they had legend and oral
history
that went back hundreds of years not just the lifetimes of the current
elders.

IOW, "this, too, shall pass"...


As for the grassfires, we worry all the time over that for sure. But,
again, one has to look at it in perspective. They're only a serious
problem because there are now permanent residents and structures where
before there were nomads and other wildlife.

I don't know precisely the estimated times there but here generally
any
givem area could have expected to have burned about every 5-7
years. I
doubt it was too much greater for a lot of that country down there
altho
probably fires didn't cover as extensive an area owing to more natural
barriers and that thunderstorms there generally do have sufficient
rain w/
them to put out fires after a while whereas we have a lot of dry
t-storms.

Since the house sits in the middle of several miles of grass in all
directions w/ only a road on one side of the place closer than a full
mile, we keep close eye out when it gets dry.

--

I'm surrounded by green belt here in Austin. Damn trees!

There are accurate detailed records in polar ice caps (co2
concentrations,
temperature, precipitation, volcanic activity) and ancient tree rings.

There are reasonable approximations in those ice caps, and tree rings -
there is not anywhere near the accuracy needed to support the claims
that are being made.

No...the records are accurate it the interpretation that's flawed.
Geologist can put events together with meteorological events and
reasonable conclusions can be made. The study of the earth has been
going on for some time now.

And the interesting thing is that the CO2 concentration rises and falls
in a lagging (by several hundred years or so) the corresponding
temperature changes. Hence, there's no possibility that these records
can be used to show that rising CO2 caused global warming as that would
violate the principal of causality.

(Assuming that's your point in bringing up something totally foreign to
the general gist of the thread to date....)

CO2 concentration lagged temperature only when it was a positive
feedback mechanism rather than being a cause.

- Don Klipstein )

In ,
BobR wrote in part:

Now check out:

http://www.surfacestations.org/

2/3 of the world is covered by ocean, notaffected by surfacestation
issues, and that is also warming up:

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadsst2/.../global/nh+sh/

Two of the 5 major indices of global temperature are determinations
of lower troposphere temperature from MSU satellite data. Both of those
are warming. The less-warming one of these two and least-warming of all
5, as presented by Dr. Roy Spencer, one of the two UAH professors in
charge of it, is shown in graph form at:

http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

Spencer is actually notably a skeptic of anthropogenic global warming.

- Don Klipstein )

Master Betty wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Master Betty wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Master Betty wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
...

It's good to hear other places are doing better.

If it would of have rained more we would of got a break, but
Central
TX
is having a bad drought, and hot weather. Brushfires scare me.

...

Again, too short a time span to tell much, if anything. And, w/
records
as short as those like here, it's not even possible to say that
what
you're experiencing is anything particularly out of the
ordinary. What
seems long in an individual's experience isn't a microsecond in
geologic
terms. The native Americans told the early settlers here the good
times
of the early 1900s wouldn't last because they had legend and oral
history
that went back hundreds of years not just the lifetimes of the
current
elders.

IOW, "this, too, shall pass"...


As for the grassfires, we worry all the time over that for sure.
But,
again, one has to look at it in perspective. They're only a
serious
problem because there are now permanent residents and structures
where
before there were nomads and other wildlife.

I don't know precisely the estimated times there but here
generally any
givem area could have expected to have burned about every 5-7
years. I
doubt it was too much greater for a lot of that country down there
altho
probably fires didn't cover as extensive an area owing to more
natural
barriers and that thunderstorms there generally do have
sufficient rain
w/
them to put out fires after a while whereas we have a lot of dry
t-storms.

Since the house sits in the middle of several miles of grass in all
directions w/ only a road on one side of the place closer than a
full
mile, we keep close eye out when it gets dry.

--

I'm surrounded by green belt here in Austin. Damn trees!

There are accurate detailed records in polar ice caps (co2
concentrations,
temperature, precipitation, volcanic activity) and ancient tree
rings.

There are reasonable approximations in those ice caps, and tree
rings -
there is not anywhere near the accuracy needed to support the claims
that are being made.

No...the records are accurate it the interpretation that's flawed.
Geologist
can put events together with meteorological events and reasonable
conclusions can be made. The study of the earth has been going on for
some
time now.

The claims that are being made about global temperature are in tenths of
a degree F.

Accurate records of temperature over a sufficient number of sample
points on the planet do not go back very far at all. Further back you
have accurate temps from a few scattered points on the planet going back
perhaps 150 years, and prior to that you have only approximate
information. The ice and trees do not provide the detail to judge the
temperature at particular times to tenths of a degree F, more like +/-
10.0 F.

Of course you're right. Errors are possible. When you put the whole
picture together, ice samples and tree rings, can verify hypothesis,
might be a better way to put it.

But....when you look at the "records" they have no other option but to
be accurate. I mean....how can you fake a tree rings from ancient
forests? Same for properly analyzed ice samples. Human error? Of course.

There are lies, damn lies then there is junk science.

TDD

Tony wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Darn those pesky rich Republicans, how dare they enjoy the fruits of
their labor when Democrats who produce
nothing and don't work hard or strive to improve themselves go without
fancy clothes, homes and cars.

What is really sad is when one believes fancy clothes, homes, and cars
improve a person.

Hey, dem dope dealers got em.

TDD

Tony wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Red Green wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
news:hhveg7$2v7
:

This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

NC I95, almost SC. Lower 20's nightly for like a week. About 10
degrees lower than the avg for this time in Jan. 14 slated for weekend.

...on the bright side

don't have a "-" in front of that 20 like I've experienced many years
up north. And don't have 33" of snow like S.O. had last weekend either.

We get a bunch of Damn Yankees coming down here from time to time
and when they see how beautiful it is, we can't get those suckers
to leave. *snicker*

TDD

I thought we were just "Yankees" when we visit and "Damn Yankees" when
we stay? I'm a Damn Yankee... unless this weather stays so damn cold!

Heck, I'm a half breed, my mom is from Brooklyn. *snicker*

TDD

IGot2P wrote:
On 1/6/2010 6:54 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
IGot2P wrote:
On 1/5/2010 7:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

Just glance at http://www.crsales.com/weather.htm every once in awhile
and you can see what the temp and more is in SE Iowa. It was 8.4
degrees F when I posted this at 6:10 CST.

Don


Just a little while ago it was 17° F now it dropped to 16° F at 6:50am.
Darn that Al Gore, he let out all his hot air which escaped into space
and now the darn country is colder. He should have kept his mouth shut.

TDD

Yeah, we are in a heat wave right now. My history records shows that we
went from -2.7 this morning at 2:22 AM to +16.8 now at 10:30 AM. OTOH,
it appears that it is going to start snowing quite soon. :-(

Don


It's 28°F right now and the weather gnomes predict 37°F and rain/snow
by late morning and a number of schools have been closed. Southerners
panic at the thought of that mysterious white flaky, fluffy cold stuff
falling from the sky. We must all kneel and pray to the football gods
to protect us.

TDD

Tony wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

Here in east,east TN we had a few nights down to 11F. I think it's
warmed up to 15F the last couple nights with highs in the 20's.

Average temps from previous years are a low of 29F and a high of 46F for
today. It doesn't look like todays high will break 25F. Between day
and night we are about 20F below normal and it's supposed to last a
total of at least 10 days. Lucky I'm here by myself, the central heat
is set at 55F and here I sit with 750 watts blowing at me from under the
desk. Quite comfy actually!

YOU! YOU COME FROM THAT PLACE THAT SPAWNED AL GORE! AAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHH!

TDD

On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 00:01:03 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I thought we were just "Yankees" when we visit and "Damn Yankees" when
we stay? I'm a Damn Yankee... unless this weather stays so damn cold!

Heck, I'm a half breed, my mom is from Brooklyn. *snicker*

Heck, Mom needed three witnesses just to get in her school, years ago.
They couldn't figure which side of the state line she was born on
(Love you Mom!)..

I found out some of my elders also sold mules on the Flint river in
Georgia.

"Damn Yankees"

At least they could appreciate some fresh peanut brittle.

The Daring Dufas wrote:


It's 28°F right now and the weather gnomes predict 37°F and rain/snow
by late morning and a number of schools have been closed. Southerners
panic at the thought of that mysterious white flaky, fluffy cold stuff
falling from the sky. We must all kneel and pray to the football gods
to protect us.


Yep, but it's what you're used to.

When a hurricane enters the Gulf, all our northern visitors look down and
say: "Feet, make tracks!" Meanwhile us natives stock up on beer and
strawberry pop-tarts.

P-A-R-T-Y !

On Jan 7, 1:10*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
IGot2P wrote:
On 1/6/2010 6:54 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
IGot2P wrote:
On 1/5/2010 7:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

Just glance athttp://www.crsales.com/weather.htmevery once in awhile
and you can see what the temp and more is in SE Iowa. It was 8.4
degrees F when I posted this at 6:10 CST.

Don

Just a little while ago it was 17° F now it dropped to 16° F at 6:50am.
Darn that Al Gore, he let out all his hot air which escaped into space
and now the darn country is colder. He should have kept his mouth shut..

TDD

Yeah, we are in a heat wave right now. My history records shows that we
went from -2.7 this morning at 2:22 AM to +16.8 now at 10:30 AM. OTOH,
it appears that it is going to start snowing quite soon. :-(

Don

It's 28°F right now and the weather gnomes predict 37°F and rain/snow
by late morning and a number of schools have been closed. Southerners
panic at the thought of that mysterious white flaky, fluffy cold stuff
falling from the sky. We must all kneel and pray to the football gods
to protect us.

TDD

A New York friend moved down south and was commenting negatively on
the way southerners drive in the snow. The next day I had to pull him
out of the ditch. That's when he realized it ain't the same stuff they
have up there. What they have up north is usually dry powder and is no
worse than driving on a sandy dirt road. Down south its usually that
wet gloppy snow that turns to ice You can slide off the road while
stopped.

Jimmie

On Jan 7, 1:26*am, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 00:01:03 -0600, The Daring Dufas

wrote:
I thought we were just "Yankees" when we visit and "Damn Yankees" when
we stay? *I'm a Damn Yankee... unless this weather stays so damn cold!

Heck, I'm a half breed, my mom is from Brooklyn. **snicker*

Heck, Mom needed three witnesses just to get in her school, years ago.
They couldn't *figure which side of the state line she was born on
(Love you Mom!)..

I found out some of my elders also sold mules on the Flint river in
Georgia.

"Damn Yankees"

At least they could appreciate some fresh peanut brittle.

My great grandfather sold mules over near Columbus Ga. He said the
best day he ever had was when a guy bought a dozen mules from him.
After the sale was done the guy laughed at grandpa and told him he was
going to put him out of business. When my grandfather asked him how he
was going to do that the man replied, " I just bought all your breed
stock" I hope this wasnt any of your kin. LOL


Jimmie

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 00:01:03 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I thought we were just "Yankees" when we visit and "Damn Yankees" when
we stay? I'm a Damn Yankee... unless this weather stays so damn cold!
Heck, I'm a half breed, my mom is from Brooklyn. *snicker*

Heck, Mom needed three witnesses just to get in her school, years ago.
They couldn't figure which side of the state line she was born on
(Love you Mom!)..

I found out some of my elders also sold mules on the Flint river in
Georgia.

"Damn Yankees"

At least they could appreciate some fresh peanut brittle.


My mom is a naturalized Southerner, she's lived most of her life in
The South. She says "Y'all guys". *snicker*

TDD

On Jan 6, 4:04*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Master Betty wrote:

Accurate records of temperature over a sufficient number of sample
points on the planet do not go back very far at all. Further back you
have accurate temps from a few scattered points on the planet going
back perhaps 150 years, and prior to that you have only approximate
information. The ice and trees do not provide the detail to judge the
temperature at particular times to tenths of a degree F, more like
+/- 10.0 F.

Of course you're right. Errors are possible. When you put the whole
picture together, ice samples and tree rings, can verify hypothesis,
might be a better way to put it.

But....when you look at the "records" they have no other option but
to be accurate. I mean....how can you fake a tree rings from ancient
forests? Same for properly analyzed ice samples. Human error? Of
course.

Oh, it's easy. Tree rings are not discrete lines on a board but rather fuzz
from one to the other. Where one draws the line is important. Further, tree
rings are conditioned by a number of factors other than temperatu
rainfall, absolute temperature, length of the growing season, etc. Third,
the trees were selected to have their rings measured by those with a vested
interest, Fourth, the rings were actually measured by those with that same
vested interest.

The gold standard for experimental verification of a hypothesis is a
double-blind study. Not done here. If I were collecting the data, I'd get
tree cores from 100 different trees in one acre, take pictures of the cores,
and give the pictures to a bunch of graduate students in a completely
different discipline (say, cello or elementary education) to measure, then
take an average of all the measurements.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And even if it's not done intentionally, there can be a bias. The
general consensus is that global warming exists and is man made. So,
if you have some data to analyze that requires interpretation, eg tree
rings, would you tend to count them in a way that conforms to the
existing consensus or that goes against it, which would face ridicule
and scorn. So, you tend to count them in a somewhat biased way,
the results then agree with the existing pile of data, studies, etc
and gets added to them. The next guy doing research now knows that
there are N+1 studies that say global warming is caused by man and
there is even more consensus to go against if you interpret data some
other way. And on it goes....

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:01:39 +0000, rochacha wrote:
There is a science to road salt.
http://www.saltinstitute.org/Uses-be...fety/How-does-
road-salt-work

Interesting! (in a geeky way :-) I'm not sure what they use around here,
but it's presumably something other than salt then, due to the low temps.

Just saw on the news that UK is having a rotten time with snow. The
news reporter said he hasn't seen snow since the 70s. The people hardly
ever see snow in some areas and have nothing to combat the bad weather.

Yeah, it's a mess (I used to live there and still keep in touch with many
people there). I do remember some storms there in the early '80s that gave
us snow a few feet deep, and one time around 2004/2005 where they didn't
get the gritters out early enough and lots of people were stranded on the
roads for many hours, with nothing able to move. I don't think they've
seen anything quite this bad that affects pretty much the whole country at
once for a very long time, though (apparently 1963 was a really bad year).

Nobody over there's really prepared for heavy snow. Nobody (as near-as)
has snow tires or a 4x4, or snow shovels or other clearing equipment, or
knows how to drive in the stuff. The authorities just don't have the level
of equipment or procedures in place to deal with clearing that much snow
from the roads or rail in any reasonable timeframe.

(I like weather extremes, so it's frustrating that they're getting more
snow there than we are up here in MN ;-)

cheers

Jules

Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , dpb wrote:
Master Betty wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...
Master Betty wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
...

It's good to hear other places are doing better.

If it would of have rained more we would of got a break, but
Central TX
is having a bad drought, and hot weather. Brushfires scare me.
...

Again, too short a time span to tell much, if anything. And, w/
records
as short as those like here, it's not even possible to say that what
you're experiencing is anything particularly out of the ordinary.
What
seems long in an individual's experience isn't a microsecond in
geologic
terms. The native Americans told the early settlers here the good
times
of the early 1900s wouldn't last because they had legend and oral
history
that went back hundreds of years not just the lifetimes of the current
elders.

IOW, "this, too, shall pass"...


As for the grassfires, we worry all the time over that for sure. But,
again, one has to look at it in perspective. They're only a serious
problem because there are now permanent residents and structures where
before there were nomads and other wildlife.

I don't know precisely the estimated times there but here generally
any
givem area could have expected to have burned about every 5-7
years. I
doubt it was too much greater for a lot of that country down there
altho
probably fires didn't cover as extensive an area owing to more natural
barriers and that thunderstorms there generally do have sufficient
rain w/
them to put out fires after a while whereas we have a lot of dry
t-storms.
Since the house sits in the middle of several miles of grass in all
directions w/ only a road on one side of the place closer than a full
mile, we keep close eye out when it gets dry.

--
I'm surrounded by green belt here in Austin. Damn trees!

There are accurate detailed records in polar ice caps (co2
concentrations,
temperature, precipitation, volcanic activity) and ancient tree rings.
There are reasonable approximations in those ice caps, and tree rings -
there is not anywhere near the accuracy needed to support the claims
that are being made.
No...the records are accurate it the interpretation that's flawed.
Geologist can put events together with meteorological events and
reasonable conclusions can be made. The study of the earth has been
going on for some time now.
And the interesting thing is that the CO2 concentration rises and falls
in a lagging (by several hundred years or so) the corresponding
temperature changes. Hence, there's no possibility that these records
can be used to show that rising CO2 caused global warming as that would
violate the principal of causality.

(Assuming that's your point in bringing up something totally foreign to
the general gist of the thread to date....)

CO2 concentration lagged temperature only when it was a positive
feedback mechanism rather than being a cause.

Not in the data set I've seen...it (CO2) lagged temperature both during
rising and cooling periods.

--

On Jan 6, 11:50*am, Tony wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Darn those pesky rich Republicans, how
dare they enjoy the fruits of their labor when Democrats who produce
nothing and don't work hard or strive to improve themselves go without
fancy clothes, homes and cars.

What is really sad is when one believes fancy clothes, homes, and cars
improve a person.

Fancy, no. Practical and functional, yes. And tools. Lots and lots
of tools, preferably old and high quality.

nate

On Jan 6, 9:33*pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In ,
BobR wrote in part:

Now check out:

http://www.surfacestations.org/

* 2/3 of the world is covered by ocean, notaffected by surfacestation
issues, and that is also warming up:

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadsst2/.../global/nh+sh/

* Two of the 5 major indices of global temperature are determinations
of lower troposphere temperature from MSU satellite data. *Both of those
are warming. *The less-warming one of these two and least-warming of all
5, as presented by Dr. Roy Spencer, one of the two UAH professors in
charge of it, is shown in graph form at:

http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

* Spencer is actually notably a skeptic of anthropogenic global warming..

*- Don Klipstein )

Right, and we have historical satellite data going back thousands of
years to compare against. What we have as a point of comparison is
WAG's that are subject to errors of +/- 5C.

JIMMIE wrote:


My great grandfather sold mules over near Columbus Ga. He said the
best day he ever had was when a guy bought a dozen mules from him.
After the sale was done the guy laughed at grandpa and told him he was
going to put him out of business. When my grandfather asked him how he
was going to do that the man replied, " I just bought all your breed
stock" I hope this wasnt any of your kin. LOL



[Note to city dwellers: Mules are sterile.]

HeyBub wrote:
JIMMIE wrote:

My great grandfather sold mules over near Columbus Ga. He said the
best day he ever had was when a guy bought a dozen mules from him.
After the sale was done the guy laughed at grandpa and told him he was
going to put him out of business. When my grandfather asked him how he
was going to do that the man replied, " I just bought all your breed
stock" I hope this wasnt any of your kin. LOL



[Note to city dwellers: Mules are sterile.]



Must be a side effect of the drugs they're smuggling. 8-)

TDD

Now long do you autoclave a mule?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote
in message ...

[Note to city dwellers: Mules are sterile.]



Must be a side effect of the drugs they're smuggling. 8-)

TDD

On Jan 7, 1:10*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
IGot2P wrote:
On 1/6/2010 6:54 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
IGot2P wrote:
On 1/5/2010 7:23 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

Just glance athttp://www.crsales.com/weather.htmevery once in awhile
and you can see what the temp and more is in SE Iowa. It was 8.4
degrees F when I posted this at 6:10 CST.

Don

Just a little while ago it was 17° F now it dropped to 16° F at 6:50am.
Darn that Al Gore, he let out all his hot air which escaped into space
and now the darn country is colder. He should have kept his mouth shut..

TDD

Yeah, we are in a heat wave right now. My history records shows that we
went from -2.7 this morning at 2:22 AM to +16.8 now at 10:30 AM. OTOH,
it appears that it is going to start snowing quite soon. :-(

Don

It's 28°F right now and the weather gnomes predict 37°F and rain/snow
by late morning and a number of schools have been closed. Southerners
panic at the thought of that mysterious white flaky, fluffy cold stuff
falling from the sky. We must all kneel and pray to the football gods
to protect us.

TDD

My one and only trip to Las Vegas, sometime around 1980 or 81, the
wife and I got bored hanging around the casinos so we signed up for a
bus trip out to he Hover Dam. The day of the trip it snowed like crazy
for a while and put a couple of inches on the ground. People were
panicking all over and they canceled the bus tour so we rented a car
and drove out there ourselves. We stopped out in the desert and took
pics of snow on the cactus. The snow melt put so much moisture in the
air that it was so foggy in the valley that we didn't know we were
there until we realized we were driving on the Dam.

David

On Jan 7, 8:09*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

It's 28°F right now and the weather gnomes predict 37°F and rain/snow
by late morning and a number of schools have been closed. Southerners
panic at the thought of that mysterious white flaky, fluffy cold stuff
falling from the sky. We must all kneel and pray to the football gods
to protect us.

Yep, but it's what you're used to.

When a hurricane enters the Gulf, all our northern visitors look down and
say: "Feet, make tracks!" Meanwhile us natives stock up on beer and
strawberry pop-tarts.

P-A-R-T-Y !

Like Ron White says, "It ain't That the wind is a blowin', it's What
the wind is a blowin". A feller chained himself to a light pole saying
that his body can withstand hurricane force wind. I guess he didn't
count on getting hit by that Volvo.

David

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Now long do you autoclave a mule?

I think is rather a personal question... (g)

--
To find that place where the rats don't race
and the phones don't ring at all.
If once, you've slept on an island.
Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"

"Gary H" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 07:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15° F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

In northeast Texas, Thursday's forecast has a low of 14. According to
an article in the local paper, it's a lot warmer in Antarctica.


In Regina Saskatchewan this morning it was minus 38 celsius which is about
40 below F. With the wind chill it was about -44.

On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:03:25 -0600, Doug Brown wrote:
"Gary H" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 07:23:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

This is supposed to be "The South", it's 15? F at 7:00 am
in Birmingham, AL. There are some valleys in the area that
I know are a lot colder. Darn Canadian imports, y'all just
had to stick that cold tongue out at us. I've heard it called
The Alberta Express. BRRRRRRRR!

TDD

In northeast Texas, Thursday's forecast has a low of 14. According to
an article in the local paper, it's a lot warmer in Antarctica.


In Regina Saskatchewan this morning it was minus 38 celsius which is about
40 below F. With the wind chill it was about -44.

a heatwave!

HeyBub wrote:
JIMMIE wrote:

My great grandfather sold mules over near Columbus Ga. He said the
best day he ever had was when a guy bought a dozen mules from him.
After the sale was done the guy laughed at grandpa and told him he was
going to put him out of business. When my grandfather asked him how he
was going to do that the man replied, " I just bought all your breed
stock" I hope this wasnt any of your kin. LOL



[Note to city dwellers: Mules are sterile.]

Oh LOL! I forgot they are a cross breed. I've never been a city
dweller, but I've never dealt with livestock either.

As they say, He who laughs last, lasts the loudest.

Doug Brown wrote:
....

In Regina Saskatchewan this morning it was minus 38 celsius which is
about 40 below F. With the wind chill it was about -44.

I told the guys at the local "intellectual" center over coffee and
donuts this morning I was certainly glad to no be on the coal analyzer
service calls any longer outside Weyburn...for some reason we were
biannual and February was the month they (SaskPower) chose.

--

In article , dpb wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , dpb wrote:
Master Betty wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...
Master Betty wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
...

It's good to hear other places are doing better.

If it would of have rained more we would of got a break, but
Central TX
is having a bad drought, and hot weather. Brushfires scare me.
...

Again, too short a time span to tell much, if anything. And, w/
records
as short as those like here, it's not even possible to say that what
you're experiencing is anything particularly out of the ordinary.
What
seems long in an individual's experience isn't a microsecond in
geologic
terms. The native Americans told the early settlers here the good
times
of the early 1900s wouldn't last because they had legend and oral
history
that went back hundreds of years not just the lifetimes of the current
elders.

IOW, "this, too, shall pass"...


As for the grassfires, we worry all the time over that for sure. But,
again, one has to look at it in perspective. They're only a serious
problem because there are now permanent residents and structures where
before there were nomads and other wildlife.

I don't know precisely the estimated times there but here generally
any
givem area could have expected to have burned about every 5-7
years. I
doubt it was too much greater for a lot of that country down there
altho
probably fires didn't cover as extensive an area owing to more natural
barriers and that thunderstorms there generally do have sufficient
rain w/
them to put out fires after a while whereas we have a lot of dry
t-storms.
Since the house sits in the middle of several miles of grass in all
directions w/ only a road on one side of the place closer than a full
mile, we keep close eye out when it gets dry.

--
I'm surrounded by green belt here in Austin. Damn trees!

There are accurate detailed records in polar ice caps (co2
concentrations,
temperature, precipitation, volcanic activity) and ancient tree rings.
There are reasonable approximations in those ice caps, and tree rings -
there is not anywhere near the accuracy needed to support the claims
that are being made.
No...the records are accurate it the interpretation that's flawed.
Geologist can put events together with meteorological events and
reasonable conclusions can be made. The study of the earth has been
going on for some time now.
And the interesting thing is that the CO2 concentration rises and falls
in a lagging (by several hundred years or so) the corresponding
temperature changes. Hence, there's no possibility that these records
can be used to show that rising CO2 caused global warming as that would
violate the principal of causality.

(Assuming that's your point in bringing up something totally foreign to
the general gist of the thread to date....)

CO2 concentration lagged temperature only when it was a positive
feedback mechanism rather than being a cause.

Not in the data set I've seen...it (CO2) lagged temperature both during
rising and cooling periods.

Positive feedback for the warmings and coolings caused by the
Milankovitch cycles, especially the eccentricity one. That was back when
the sum of carbon in the biosphere, hydrosphere and atmosphere was absent.
Now we are transfering carbon from the lithosphere to the others.

- Don Klipstein )

In article , Tony wrote:

As they say, He who laughs last, lasts the loudest.

Naaahhhh.... He who laughs last, just got the joke. g

The Bible says to autoclave unto her and none else. So,
forever, I guess?

I'll take some heat and pressure for that crack.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...
In article ,
"Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Now long do you autoclave a mule?

I think is rather a personal question... (g)

--
To find that place where the rats don't race
and the phones don't ring at all.
If once, you've slept on an island.
Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Tony wrote:
As they say, He who laughs last, lasts the loudest.

Naaahhhh.... He who laughs last, just got the joke. g

Yes, as apposed to those who fake laugh without getting the joke.

On Jan 7, 11:38*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:


Now long do you autoclave a mule?


Nont know but it must be quicker than the manual method.

Jimmie