On Jan 21, 5:00*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
dgk wrote:

It would be a shame if the threat of global warming was real.
Unfortunately the actions of those sounding the alarm have done more
to discredit it than those who don't believe in it.

Jimmie

I think it is real. I'm not sure what actions you're talking about,
the leaked emails? I've read them; I don't see anybody lying about
anything. I've had some of my emails misinterpreted by people who
don't understand the references and that is pretty obviously what
happened with those emails.

Hopefully we manage to keep our planet hospitable for human life but
if not,we'll have proven ourselves too self-centered to be worth
caring about.

It will be far, far cheaper and easier to adapt to the changes, if any, than
to try to mitigate them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are reasonable and prudent actions that we should be taking to
lessen our impact on the environment. We all should be active in
taking what actions we can to further those reasonable and prudent
actions. Adapting to the changing climate is one of the most
reasonable and prudent actions we will all have to take.

There are also totally ignorant and excessively costly actions that
would do little to really make a positive impact on the environment
but would pad the pocketbooks of those who stand to gain substantially
from forced changes. Some of the stated goals of the current
administration and other world leaders would impose limits that would
return our standard of living to something in the 1800's based on our
current national and world populations. Even with such draconian
measures, the results would not be measurable based on what I have
seen published thus far. At the very best, they would only slow the
change.

terry wrote:
On Jan 21, 10:27 am, dgk wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:12:12 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
The weather guys got it right. My part of NY state has
gotten a couple inches of global warming that I have to
shovel off the driveway. And clear off the truck.
And things are quiet in Southern California as well.

Monster thread maybe; but proves people are concerned. Concerned but
not well informed maybe?

Whethr concerned enough to DO anything is anothr question.

But in some quiarters there is a sort of miasmic denial that anything
is happening to our planet's climate. Eh?

I guess we can all quote ups and downs to prove that there is/is-not
global climate change.

Some of the happenings can be explained by our ongoing human
stupidity.
e.g. cutting down (or burning off) all the trees and then wondering
why the hills slide down!
Living in earthquake zones; Haiti has 9 million people in a known one,
California has ??? in a known one, BC (Vancouver etc,.) has ???
Humans live where there are already water shortages and expect the
full range of Jacuzzis and swimming pools.
One lake or river dries up hundreds of miles away and we are back to
using the rain barrel. Oh; but it doesn't rain ..... !
Living near volcanoes!

They all sound like stupid places to live?

Humans live below normal sea level with inadequate dikes (Ask the
Dutch they've been 'recovering' land from the sea for generations)! We
put rivers and streams into pipes or viaducts and then wonder why when
it rains a bit more than usual we have floods. Duh!!!!

There won't be problems in every location every year but something
will happen, flood or drought, every 25, 50, 100 or even 300 years.
All except the last one are within one persons lifetime. My
grandfather used to talk about the San Francisco earthquake and had
'stereo-optican' pictures of it's aftermath. He passed on in the 1960s
and looks like I will around the 2015 mark? o within a couple of
lifetimes there have been enough 'events' that we all remember.

But; have had the privilege of living this long and in the one place
continuously for over 50 years. There HAS been a definite change in
our climate, along with all the newer modernities of life. Continuous
electricity, regular road snow plowing, double glazed window,
insulated homes, clothes washing machines, autos, TV, the inter-net,
self-pump gasoline, credit cards, school buses to schools with all the
facilities, automated banking, parking meters etc. etc. Good on us for
all these improvements, eh?

But even allowing for these 'conveniences' of life and increasing age,
it IS quite noticeable that the 'weather outside' is milder, less
snow, less snow shovelling, more slippery ice because temps are now
above freezing during the winter as much as they are below! Here, a
few days ago it was minus 11C (About 10 degrees F) with a wind chill
of minus 23C. Couple of days time it is fore casted to be plus 6 C
(About 42 degrees F)! And it's only the end of January at around 49
degrees North (North America).

So don't tell me the climate is not changing! I can still remember
someone getting out of a second storey bedroom window because the snow
was so deep and then digging down to the back door of the house (One
never left your snow shovel outside, them days!). Also school children
warned not to go near or touch the electric wires on the poles on
their way, by foot, to school, the snow was deep eh?

Maybe it's not yet proven beyond a shadow that ALL the change is due
to human activities/pollution? Personally I think much of it is.

And we sure are fast using up the planet's resources that were formed
into their present state over millions of years in a few short
hundreds of years; that certainly is not a 'BALANCING' of use with
nature!

Just for one stupid example; we take coal that was formed from wood
and other vegetation millions of years ago, locking up carbon and
other minerals back then and we burn it today (And since the onset of
the Industrial Revolution) to make say electrcity to make machines out
of say Aluminum, or steel, those machines then use (burn/spew-out)
other fossil products also formed millions of years ago storing among
other things energy from our sun, to propel themselves.

Don't sound too sensible to me; in a few thousand years those
'resources' could be all 'used up' and floating around in the planet's
atmosphere?

Ah yes. As someone once said 'Nothing is free'! Seems to be a basic
rule; of nature.

I started the thread as a joke but it turned into a beast with a life of
its own. My favorite fact about "global warming" is that it's
mislabeled. It should be called "solar system warming" because the other
planets that share our sun have been warming up too. Who/what can we
blame for the warming of the other planets in our solar system?
Martians? Venusians? Klingons?

TDD

On Jan 22, 8:19*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
terry wrote:
On Jan 21, 10:27 am, dgk wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:12:12 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
The weather guys got it right. My part of NY state has
gotten a couple inches of global warming that I have to
shovel off the driveway. And clear off the truck.
And things are quiet in Southern California as well.

Monster thread maybe; but proves people are concerned. Concerned but
not well informed maybe?

Whethr concerned enough to DO anything is anothr question.

But in some quiarters there is a sort of miasmic denial that anything
is happening to our planet's climate. Eh?

I guess we can all quote ups and downs to prove that there is/is-not
global climate change.

Some of the happenings can be explained by our ongoing human
stupidity.
e.g. cutting down (or burning off) all the trees and then wondering
why the hills slide down!
Living in earthquake zones; Haiti has 9 million people in a known one,
California has ??? in a known one, BC (Vancouver etc,.) has ???
Humans live where there are already water shortages and expect the
full range of Jacuzzis and swimming pools.
One lake or river dries up hundreds of miles away and we are back to
using the rain barrel. Oh; but it doesn't rain ..... !
Living near volcanoes!

They all sound like stupid places to live?

Humans live below normal sea level with inadequate dikes (Ask the
Dutch they've been 'recovering' land from the sea for generations)! We
put rivers and streams into pipes or viaducts and then wonder why when
it rains a bit more than usual we have floods. * * * Duh!!!!

There won't be problems in every location every year but something
will happen, flood or drought, every 25, 50, 100 or even 300 years.
All except the last one are within one persons lifetime. My
grandfather used to talk about the San Francisco earthquake and had
'stereo-optican' pictures of it's aftermath. He passed on in the 1960s
and looks like I will around the 2015 mark? o within a couple of
lifetimes there have been enough 'events' that we all remember.

But; have had the privilege of living this long and in the one place
continuously for over 50 years. There HAS been a definite change in
our climate, along with all the newer modernities of life. Continuous
electricity, regular road snow plowing, double glazed window,
insulated homes, clothes washing machines, autos, TV, the inter-net,
self-pump gasoline, credit cards, school buses to schools with all the
facilities, automated banking, parking meters etc. etc. Good on us for
all these improvements, eh?

But even allowing for these 'conveniences' of life and increasing age,
it IS quite noticeable that the 'weather outside' is milder, less
snow, less snow shovelling, more slippery ice because temps are now
above freezing during the winter as much as they are below! Here, a
few days ago it was minus 11C (About 10 degrees F) with a wind chill
of minus 23C. Couple of days time it is fore casted to be plus 6 C
(About 42 degrees F)! And it's only the end of January at around 49
degrees North (North America).

So don't tell me the climate is not changing! I can still remember
someone getting out of a second storey bedroom window because the snow
was so deep and then digging down to the back door of the house (One
never left your snow shovel outside, them days!). Also school children
warned not to go near or touch the electric wires on the poles on
their way, by foot, to school, the snow was deep eh?

Maybe it's not yet proven beyond a shadow that ALL the change is due
to human activities/pollution? Personally I think much of it is.

And we sure are fast using up the planet's resources that were formed
into their present state over millions of years in a few short
hundreds of years; that certainly is not a 'BALANCING' of use with
nature!

Just for one stupid example; we take coal that was formed from wood
and other vegetation millions of years ago, locking up carbon and
other minerals back then and we burn it today (And since the onset of
the Industrial Revolution) to make say electrcity to make machines out
of say Aluminum, or steel, those machines then use (burn/spew-out)
other fossil products also formed millions of years ago storing among
other things energy from our sun, to propel themselves.

Don't sound too sensible to me; in a few thousand years those
'resources' could be all 'used up' and floating around in the planet's
atmosphere?

Ah yes. As someone once said 'Nothing is free'! Seems to be a basic
rule; of nature.

I started the thread as a joke but it turned into a beast with a life of
its own. My favorite fact about "global warming" is that it's
mislabeled. It should be called "solar system warming" because the other
planets that share our sun have been warming up too. Who/what can we
blame for the warming of the other planets in our solar system?
Martians? Venusians? Klingons?

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Geeez, don't you know the simple answer to that question? It was all
George W Bush's fault and will remain so for at least the next
thousand years or until the next Ice Age.

There is not now nor has there ever been any such thing as "Climate
Stability". The climate has always been subject to variations and man
did not cause those variations nor can man eliminate them. The best
we can do is learn to adapt while making every effort to not defacate
in our own beds.

I've heard So Cal is having weather PMS, would that be WMS?
Hot and cold flashes.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"dgk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:12:12 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

The weather guys got it right. My part of NY state has
gotten a couple inches of global warming that I have to
shovel off the driveway. And clear off the truck.

And things are quiet in Southern California as well.

BobR wrote:
On Jan 22, 8:19 am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
terry wrote:
On Jan 21, 10:27 am, dgk wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:12:12 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The weather guys got it right. My part of NY state has
gotten a couple inches of global warming that I have to
shovel off the driveway. And clear off the truck.
And things are quiet in Southern California as well.
Monster thread maybe; but proves people are concerned. Concerned but
not well informed maybe?
Whethr concerned enough to DO anything is anothr question.
But in some quiarters there is a sort of miasmic denial that anything
is happening to our planet's climate. Eh?
I guess we can all quote ups and downs to prove that there is/is-not
global climate change.
Some of the happenings can be explained by our ongoing human
stupidity.
e.g. cutting down (or burning off) all the trees and then wondering
why the hills slide down!
Living in earthquake zones; Haiti has 9 million people in a known one,
California has ??? in a known one, BC (Vancouver etc,.) has ???
Humans live where there are already water shortages and expect the
full range of Jacuzzis and swimming pools.
One lake or river dries up hundreds of miles away and we are back to
using the rain barrel. Oh; but it doesn't rain ..... !
Living near volcanoes!
They all sound like stupid places to live?
Humans live below normal sea level with inadequate dikes (Ask the
Dutch they've been 'recovering' land from the sea for generations)! We
put rivers and streams into pipes or viaducts and then wonder why when
it rains a bit more than usual we have floods. Duh!!!!
There won't be problems in every location every year but something
will happen, flood or drought, every 25, 50, 100 or even 300 years.
All except the last one are within one persons lifetime. My
grandfather used to talk about the San Francisco earthquake and had
'stereo-optican' pictures of it's aftermath. He passed on in the 1960s
and looks like I will around the 2015 mark? o within a couple of
lifetimes there have been enough 'events' that we all remember.
But; have had the privilege of living this long and in the one place
continuously for over 50 years. There HAS been a definite change in
our climate, along with all the newer modernities of life. Continuous
electricity, regular road snow plowing, double glazed window,
insulated homes, clothes washing machines, autos, TV, the inter-net,
self-pump gasoline, credit cards, school buses to schools with all the
facilities, automated banking, parking meters etc. etc. Good on us for
all these improvements, eh?
But even allowing for these 'conveniences' of life and increasing age,
it IS quite noticeable that the 'weather outside' is milder, less
snow, less snow shovelling, more slippery ice because temps are now
above freezing during the winter as much as they are below! Here, a
few days ago it was minus 11C (About 10 degrees F) with a wind chill
of minus 23C. Couple of days time it is fore casted to be plus 6 C
(About 42 degrees F)! And it's only the end of January at around 49
degrees North (North America).
So don't tell me the climate is not changing! I can still remember
someone getting out of a second storey bedroom window because the snow
was so deep and then digging down to the back door of the house (One
never left your snow shovel outside, them days!). Also school children
warned not to go near or touch the electric wires on the poles on
their way, by foot, to school, the snow was deep eh?
Maybe it's not yet proven beyond a shadow that ALL the change is due
to human activities/pollution? Personally I think much of it is.
And we sure are fast using up the planet's resources that were formed
into their present state over millions of years in a few short
hundreds of years; that certainly is not a 'BALANCING' of use with
nature!
Just for one stupid example; we take coal that was formed from wood
and other vegetation millions of years ago, locking up carbon and
other minerals back then and we burn it today (And since the onset of
the Industrial Revolution) to make say electrcity to make machines out
of say Aluminum, or steel, those machines then use (burn/spew-out)
other fossil products also formed millions of years ago storing among
other things energy from our sun, to propel themselves.
Don't sound too sensible to me; in a few thousand years those
'resources' could be all 'used up' and floating around in the planet's
atmosphere?
Ah yes. As someone once said 'Nothing is free'! Seems to be a basic
rule; of nature.
I started the thread as a joke but it turned into a beast with a life of
its own. My favorite fact about "global warming" is that it's
mislabeled. It should be called "solar system warming" because the other
planets that share our sun have been warming up too. Who/what can we
blame for the warming of the other planets in our solar system?
Martians? Venusians? Klingons?

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Geeez, don't you know the simple answer to that question? It was all
George W Bush's fault and will remain so for at least the next
thousand years or until the next Ice Age.

There is not now nor has there ever been any such thing as "Climate
Stability". The climate has always been subject to variations and man
did not cause those variations nor can man eliminate them. The best
we can do is learn to adapt while making every effort to not defacate
in our own beds.



Thunder and lightning makes me go poopy in my pants, especially when
it's ten feet away. We lived on top of a mountain when I was a kid.

TDD

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:10:12 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I've heard So Cal is having weather PMS, would that be WMS?
Hot and cold flashes.

Maybe that is " EL NINO AND LA NINA"?

It rained in Vegas for three of the last four days.. we got a surplus
of rain for the next year or so. Snow stuck on the north side of town.

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=11857930

In , The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started the thread as a joke but it turned into a beast with a life of
its own. My favorite fact about "global warming" is that it's
mislabeled. It should be called "solar system warming" because the other
planets that share our sun have been warming up too. Who/what can we
blame for the warming of the other planets in our solar system?
Martians? Venusians? Klingons?

As it turns out, Mars has not continuously warmed all this time, but
alternated between warming and cooling ruts lasting several years - which,
as it turns out to be, is normal for Mars.

As for other planets - any warming I ever heard of there is some flash
in the pan reported in some rightwing publication once, as soon as anyone
gets a temperature determination warmer than some past determination, and
it takes off as a sign that the sun is getting stronger and causing all
planets to warm.

Meanwhile, we have much more accurate indications of solar output ever
since 1975 than best determination of temperature of other planets at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solar-cycle-data.png

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein wrote:
In , The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started the thread as a joke but it turned into a beast with a life of
its own. My favorite fact about "global warming" is that it's
mislabeled. It should be called "solar system warming" because the other
planets that share our sun have been warming up too. Who/what can we
blame for the warming of the other planets in our solar system?
Martians? Venusians? Klingons?

As it turns out, Mars has not continuously warmed all this time, but
alternated between warming and cooling ruts lasting several years - which,
as it turns out to be, is normal for Mars.

As for other planets - any warming I ever heard of there is some flash
in the pan reported in some rightwing publication once, as soon as anyone
gets a temperature determination warmer than some past determination, and
it takes off as a sign that the sun is getting stronger and causing all
planets to warm.

Meanwhile, we have much more accurate indications of solar output ever
since 1975 than best determination of temperature of other planets at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solar-cycle-data.png

- Don Klipstein )

Invent a crisis in a ploy to grab power. It's the way of the Commiecrat,
......er, politician of any party. Commiecrats are just the ones doing it
right now. *snicker*

TDD

On Jan 22, 9:52*pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In , The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started the thread as a joke but it turned into a beast with a life of
its own. My favorite fact about "global warming" is that it's
mislabeled. It should be called "solar system warming" because the other
planets that share our sun have been warming up too. Who/what can we
blame for the warming of the other planets in our solar system?
Martians? Venusians? Klingons?

* As it turns out, Mars has not continuously warmed all this time, but
alternated between warming and cooling ruts lasting several years - which,
as it turns out to be, is normal for Mars.

* As for other planets - any warming I ever heard of there is some flash
in the pan reported in some rightwing publication once, as soon as anyone
gets a temperature determination warmer than some past determination, and
it takes off as a sign that the sun is getting stronger and causing all
planets to warm.

* Meanwhile, we have much more accurate indications of solar output ever
since 1975 than best determination of temperature of other planets at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solar-cycle-data.png

*- Don Klipstein )

Yep, the same tactic the deniers use. 'January was the coldest one
for the past 10 years therefore he world is cooling' ignoring the fact
that January, while the coldest in 10 years, was still warmer than any
in the past 90 years. No, that is not a fact but just an illustration
of how they think.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Jan 22, 9:52 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In , The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started the thread as a joke but it turned into a beast with a life of
its own. My favorite fact about "global warming" is that it's
mislabeled. It should be called "solar system warming" because the other
planets that share our sun have been warming up too. Who/what can we
blame for the warming of the other planets in our solar system?
Martians? Venusians? Klingons?

As it turns out, Mars has not continuously warmed all this time, but
alternated between warming and cooling ruts lasting several years - which,
as it turns out to be, is normal for Mars.

As for other planets - any warming I ever heard of there is some flash
in the pan reported in some rightwing publication once, as soon as anyone
gets a temperature determination warmer than some past determination, and
it takes off as a sign that the sun is getting stronger and causing all
planets to warm.

Meanwhile, we have much more accurate indications of solar output ever
since 1975 than best determination of temperature of other planets at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solar-cycle-data.png

- Don Klipstein )

Yep, the same tactic the deniers use. 'January was the coldest one
for the past 10 years therefore he world is cooling' ignoring the fact
that January, while the coldest in 10 years, was still warmer than any
in the past 90 years. No, that is not a fact but just an illustration
of how they think.

Harry K

----------------

After the cold snap we went right back to 15 degrees above normal. It's Jan.
and I'm getting the pool ready.

In article ,
"Master Betty" wrote:


Yep, the same tactic the deniers use.
Yep, that is a good tactic. Saddle people who don't agree with you
a really nice title... in this case on that is tied in with people who
say the holocaust did not happen. Nice subtle way to vilify your
opponents, minimize the need to actually listen to their side, and let
you go about your bizness.
But then, I still think it should be pro or anti-abortion because
life and choice has little to do with it in practice.

--
To find that place where the rats don't race
and the phones don't ring at all.
If once, you've slept on an island.
Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"

On Jan 23, 7:32*am, "Master Betty" wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message

...
On Jan 22, 9:52 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:





In , The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started the thread as a joke but it turned into a beast with a life of
its own. My favorite fact about "global warming" is that it's
mislabeled. It should be called "solar system warming" because the other
planets that share our sun have been warming up too. Who/what can we
blame for the warming of the other planets in our solar system?
Martians? Venusians? Klingons?

As it turns out, Mars has not continuously warmed all this time, but
alternated between warming and cooling ruts lasting several years - which,
as it turns out to be, is normal for Mars.

As for other planets - any warming I ever heard of there is some flash
in the pan reported in some rightwing publication once, as soon as anyone
gets a temperature determination warmer than some past determination, and
it takes off as a sign that the sun is getting stronger and causing all
planets to warm.

Meanwhile, we have much more accurate indications of solar output ever
since 1975 than best determination of temperature of other planets at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solar-cycle-data.png

- Don Klipstein )

Yep, the same tactic the deniers use. *'January was the coldest one
for the past 10 years therefore he world is cooling' ignoring the fact
that January, while the coldest in 10 years, was still warmer than any
in the past 90 years. *No, that is not a fact but just an illustration
of how they think.

Harry K

----------------

After the cold snap we went right back to 15 degrees above normal. It's Jan.
and I'm getting the pool ready.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Heh! My 1 acre pasture is already greened up. Normally it would be
under a thick snow blanket.

Harry K

Walmart, cause they are every where.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote
in message ...

My favorite fact about "global warming" is that it's
mislabeled. It should be called "solar system warming"
because the other
planets that share our sun have been warming up too.
Who/what can we
blame for the warming of the other planets in our solar
system?
Martians? Venusians? Klingons?

TDD

We did the bed routine by electing a guy who is spending us
dead.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"BobR" wrote in message
...

Geeez, don't you know the simple answer to that question?
It was all
George W Bush's fault and will remain so for at least the
next
thousand years or until the next Ice Age.

There is not now nor has there ever been any such thing as
"Climate
Stability". The climate has always been subject to
variations and man
did not cause those variations nor can man eliminate them.
The best
we can do is learn to adapt while making every effort to not
defacate
in our own beds.