I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for
a journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

"Kadaifi" wrote in message
...

Rick Brandt wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:56:02 +0000, Kadaifi wrote:

I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The
prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a
journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

How about $38/hr?

None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing but I
provide him with a place to live?

I would ask him what he thinks is fair, since it does include room and
board. If he usually makes $38 per hour, and he's doing it for room and
board. I would say a couple of hours a day would cover the room and board in
fine style, and then you should pay him the rest of what you decide is a
fair price.

Cheri

Kadaifi wrote:

How about $38/hr?

None of the work needs to be done.

That's irrelevant, if he's working he deserves to be paid.

How about he does it for nothing
but I provide him with a place to live?

Do motels in your area charge $38.00 an hour?

Pay him $38/hour and charge him a couple of hundred bucks a week for a room,
that way you aren't giving away your hospitality and he'll have some money
in his pocket to get him back on his feet and looking for a job.

so why'd you ask here?

s
"Kadaifi" wrote in message
...


None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing but I
provide him with a place to live?

Kadaifi wrote:
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for
a journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?
BTDT. Nothing is more permanent that a relative that moves in
'temporarily'. Only you can judge- is he out of work due to the economy,
or because he is a less-than-ideal employee? Why does he have no place
to live? Not trying to pre-judge your relative, but I have a few of my
own that are skilled and experienced, but less than fully functional. If
you are going to pay 'prevailing' (aka union scale) wages, things might
be a lot more business-like if he rents a small apartment to live in,
and just stashes his tools at your place, while the work is going on. If
you have the space to put him up without pain, and you think the
after-hours time together will be pleasant or helpful, okay, but if I
was giving room and board, I wouldn't pay over 20 bucks an hour. And
speaking from sad experience- don't cut him any slack on the speed or
quality of the work- you would not be doing either of you any favors.

Standard disclaimer- you said you live in the northeast- some areas in
that part of country are notorious about being asses about permits, and
while 'owner installed' is often exempt, work done by a relative that is
temporarily residing there, but paid for his work, may make their heads
explode (especially if he isn't licensed). Best to research that before
you start, rather than being faced with having to rip out and redo.
Plus, of course, talk to your insurance agent about an appropriate rider
to your household policy, for the duration of the remodeling work.

--
aem sends...

In article ,
Kadaifi wrote:

I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for
a journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

Pay him $38/hr. Charge him $350/wk for room and board.

What happens when the work's done? Are you going to toss him out?
What if he stops in the middle because he finds work?

Paying per hour (or for the job) and then charging rent might reduce
the chances of conflict.

Steve Barker wrote:
so why'd you ask here?

s
"Kadaifi" wrote in message
...

None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing but I
provide him with a place to live?



He originally asked for a loan. I thought I'd be a nice guy and offer
him some work to help him out.

Arnie Goetchius wrote:


Steve Barker wrote:
so why'd you ask here?

s
"Kadaifi" wrote in message
...

None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing
but I provide him with a place to live?



He originally asked for a loan. I thought I'd be a nice guy and offer
him some work to help him out.
Ouch. BTDT, as well. Whenever you loan money to a relative, kiss it
goodbye- that way if they DO pay it back, it comes as a pleasant surprise.

--
aem sends...

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:56:02 GMT, Kadaifi wrote:

I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for
a journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

I don't know. But get a contract in writing that includes the
elements of a contrracting job...

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

And the elements of the lease.

Tell them your granfather before he died (great grandfather if your
grandfather is sill alive, father if your father's not) made you
promise to get things in writing.

The purpose of the contract is not to have something to fight him with
later on. It's to prevent fighting. It's so that both sides will
know before the job starts and while the job is going one, what their
duties are and what they will get in return. Ans so both parties will
know the same thing, becuase it's in writing, one copy for each,
signed by both.

It doesn't mean either of you is untrustworthy, but people
misunderstand, forget, and not only that, often important things are
not even discussed. No one knows what was intended.

Any thoughts?

Cogito, ergo sum.

On Jan 11, 2:09*pm, Kadaifi wrote:
Rick Brandt wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:56:02 +0000, Kadaifi wrote:

I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The
prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a
journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

How about $38/hr?

None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing but
I provide him with a place to live?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In 2-4 days he will have paid rent, you want free work from him every
day? Get bids on the work, he should do it a bit cheaper and pay rent.
If its not fair it wont work.

I would pay the guy at least something. He will still have expenses other
than room and board.

When he finishes the initial work, find him some other jobs, possibly with
neighbors. If he does a good job, show his work off to neighbors.
Incentive for him to do good work.

"Kadaifi" wrote in message
...
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for
a journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

"Kadaifi" wrote in message
...
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some
re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question
his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement
windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a
journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

I paid an out-of-work carpenter to do some major repairs here this past
fall. The rate we agreed on was $40/hr, but if I had been providing room
and board I'd probably chop $10-15 off that depending on how much he eats,
and how comfortable he becomes in your home. My guy was both skilled and
productive, so I had no problem with the rate.

Keith

"Kadaifi" wrote in message
...

I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some
re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question
his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement
windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a
journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

He'll steal you blind and have sex with your wife or daughter-- maybe
both...

On Jan 11, 1:56*pm, Kadaifi wrote:
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for
a journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

38 an hr, thats is union and he isnt making anything. What do locals
charge now in winter. Alot are out of work and may normaly cut their
price in winter. I never hire union. I think you might be near 14-18
in range and cheap rent but you need bids to compare and base prices
on or the work might take 20 years.

Cheri wrote:
None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing
but I provide him with a place to live?

I would ask him what he thinks is fair, since it does include room and
board. If he usually makes $38 per hour, and he's doing it for room
and board. I would say a couple of hours a day would cover the room
and board in fine style, and then you should pay him the rest of what
you decide is a fair price.

Cheri

The reason he makes $38/hour is because he doesn't work all the available
hours so he has to make extra when he does work to cover the slack times.
This is a slack time for which he would normally be getting nothing anyway.

"trailer" wrote in message
...
I would pay the guy at least something. He will still have expenses other
than room and board.

When he finishes the initial work, find him some other jobs, possibly with
neighbors. If he does a good job, show his work off to neighbors.
Incentive for him to do good work.


Good idea about showing his work. Put *that* in the contract as well. That
way you will be on the up and up if you are warning someone of a shoddy job.
"Hey, I just showed them your work as we agreed". Either way, the contract
that spells out everything, as already mentioned, will cover you both
against forgetfulness. Tell him that too. Nothng hidden and no ill intent.
If he doesn't go for it, nothing lost and a heartache saved!
Chuck

On Jan 11, 2:56*pm, Kadaifi wrote:
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for
a journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

Umm. Unless you are 8 or more units AND have the construction being
done with state/federal money, prevailing wage is irrelevant. If you
must pay prevailing wages (aka DBRA), then you must get a wage
determination. To start that, you must know if you are paying
"residential rate" or "building rate" -- either can apply depending on
the circumstances.

If you are paying Federal prevailing wages, you can "lock" them at the
start of construction but some (all?) state wages do not lock so they
may change during construction.

Now, if you are paying prevailing wage rates because you are getting
some state/federal subsidy, remember that Federal subsidies trigger
all kinds of other niceties. For example, they will trigger lead-safe
work practices. If the cost is above $25,000; then it'll trigger
abatement.

Since you're hiring him, you also have asbestos testing requirements
under Federal law.

As for the lead, don't worry about the Fed requirements. You should
use lead-safe work practices anyway.

Good luck with it.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:39:33 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
Kadaifi wrote:

I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for
a journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

Pay him $38/hr. Charge him $350/wk for room and board.

Disagree on the room/board: we charge $350 a month just for room
(includes private bathroom and cable TV and DSL and use of laundry
facilities in basement). Let him pay for his own board out of his
hourly wages.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:33:06 -0800, "DGDevin"
wrote:

Kadaifi wrote:

How about $38/hr?

None of the work needs to be done.

That's irrelevant, if he's working he deserves to be paid.

It's not irrelvant 38 is the price paid by a willing buyer to a
willing seller. The OP probably wasn't going to do this work now,
maybe not ever, but he's trying to do his relative a favor.

An unwilling buyer like the OP can pay less, if he isn't willing to
pay the full amount.

Of course if he pays too little, maybe the guy will do a bad job.

OTOH, is the guy as competent as the pros to begin with? Why isn't he
working if he is?

How about he does it for nothing
but I provide him with a place to live?

Do motels in your area charge $38.00 an hour?

Pay him $38/hour and charge him a couple of hundred bucks a week for a room,
that way you aren't giving away your hospitality and he'll have some money
in his pocket to get him back on his feet and looking for a job.

Good points. Of course 35 or 30 dollars should accomplish that too.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:33:06 -0800, "DGDevin"
wrote:

Kadaifi wrote:

And I left out that there are all kinds of reasons not to be in
business with a relative. Normally he would hire someone else even if
he wanted the job done today.

Maybe there should be a lower salary and a completion bonus. OTOH,
that leaves the problem that if the situation falls apart 2/3rd of the
way in, the guy will feel cheated out of his completion bonus. Maybe.
But the OP could give be resistant and then compromise on 1/2 or 2/3
of the bonus.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:55:14 -0500, mm
wrote:


I don't know. But get a contract in writing that includes the
elements of a contrracting job...

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

And the elements of the lease

The other postssers are right. Get a contract for the work and a
separate lease for the room.

In article ,
KLS wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:39:33 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
Kadaifi wrote:

I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for
a journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

Pay him $38/hr. Charge him $350/wk for room and board.

Disagree on the room/board: we charge $350 a month just for room
(includes private bathroom and cable TV and DSL and use of laundry
facilities in basement). Let him pay for his own board out of his
hourly wages.

So you think he'll eat more than $1050 worth of food in a month?

"Kadaifi" wrote in message
...
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some
re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question
his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement
windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a
journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

Ask him. Maybe he will work for less being it is for a relative, and since
work is tight. If he wants more, you'll know if he's a good relative or
not.

Steve

mm wrote:

Pay him $38/hour and charge him a couple of hundred bucks a week for
a room, that way you aren't giving away your hospitality and he'll
have some money in his pocket to get him back on his feet and
looking for a job.

Good points. Of course 35 or 30 dollars should accomplish that too.

Sure, just so long as the recipient doesn't feel he's getting grudging
charity and/or being taken advantage of. Gas money etc. will also help him
find work a lot faster than just a room and a few meals. And who knows,
maybe one day the currently out of work relative will be in a position to
return the favor.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 21:21:50 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
KLS wrote:

Pay him $38/hr. Charge him $350/wk for room and board.

Disagree on the room/board: we charge $350 a month just for room
(includes private bathroom and cable TV and DSL and use of laundry
facilities in basement). Let him pay for his own board out of his
hourly wages.

So you think he'll eat more than $1050 worth of food in a month?

Not necessarily: just saying that allowing him to spend his $$ as he
wishes on food relieves the OP of the responsibility of providing
enough/appropriate food/drink and avoids the risk of arguments in that
arena. Also frees up $$ for relative to use for gas.

Minimum wage


http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage


http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/1974Tryke

Jerry - OHIO wrote:
Minimum wage


http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage


http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/1974Tryke

I'm sure pleased to hear that poplar is a popular wood!

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:37:41 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Kadaifi" wrote in message
...
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some
re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question
his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement
windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a
journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

Ask him.

Good advice. Or somewhere in between. "I was thinking of xx
dollars/hour. Is that all right? (I'm not sure.) ...."

Maybe he will work for less being it is for a relative, and since
work is tight. If he wants more, you'll know if he's a good relative or
not.

Steve

On Jan 11, 1:56 pm, Kadaifi wrote:
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him
with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home
re-modeler and I don't question his experience.

My question is what to pay?

Perhaps it would be best to avoid mentioning specific dollar amounts.
Show him what you have to offer in terms of a place to stay and then
negotiate what he might do for that.

Kadaifi wrote:

I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I
don't question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East)
for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide
room and board.

Any thoughts?

It is a bad idea on several levels. First, IMO, that doing business or
financial deals with relatives is a bad idea.
I would have to know a lot more before advising to go ahead ... what
relationship? Why does he not go
elsewhere for work? Why is he homeless? How old? Married? Debts?

A mature adult needs their own living space.......living under your roof
makes him responsible to you, and
in combination with doing work on your home, it just seems to invite too
many conflicts. What would
be the rule for work hours, having guests, length of stay? If you set a
time limit and he still "can't find
work", what will you do? How long can he stay before he establishes
legal residency? A competent
carpenter can certainly find work, although it may be another vocation
for a time.

I have know a couple of elderly folks who, when they passed away, left
lists of all the little "loans"
to family. I decided long ago that if family needed money, it would be
a gift and not a loan. If
I can afford to lend it, I can afford to give it, and it is a done
deal. No worry for either party
and no "look at all I've done for you". And it wouldn't be time after
time, because folks either
take responsibility for finances or lose privileges. What doesn't kill
ya/ makes ya' stronger. And
smarter.

On Jan 11, 1:56*pm, Kadaifi wrote:
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for
a journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?


I pay $30/hr for this kind of arrangement, with a friend of a friend
not a relative.

First, I'd allow him to stay for 2-3 weeks (possibly a month) for
free, including food. Make it clear from the beginning what the rent
will be, charge the upper monthly rent rate, pay $10 an hour, and
food is not provided. Motivate independence.

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:18:21 -0500, wrote Re Whar
to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:56:02 GMT, Kadaifi wrote:

I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc.
The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for
a journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

Tell him that you will give him room and board and he can determine
how he can use his re-modeling skills to pay his keep. Tell him that
it is up to him to determine what is fair. If he is truly appreciative
then you will get a great deal. If he is just looking for a handout or
has a problematic lifestyle you'll soon find out and can remove him
from the deal.

Excellent suggestion.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:09:50 GMT, Kadaifi wrote:


Rick Brandt wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:56:02 +0000, Kadaifi wrote:

I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't
question his experience.

My question is what to pay? The work might include installing
re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The
prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a
journey carpenter is about $38/hr.

He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room
and board.

Any thoughts?

How about $38/hr?

None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing but
I provide him with a place to live?

How about discussing this with HIM.

Yes, room and board are worth something, and so is his time doing your
repairs. But this is between YOU and HIM.

Why would you even ask this to a newsgroup? It's a personal matter
not something any of us can answer. It's the same thing if I was to
ask everyone on a newsgroup if I should marry some woman I have been
dating. You have a brain (I assume), so use it.

This is one of the most stupid questions I have seen posted to this
group.

Jim

It's popular with me because all my wood is Free wood from when I
worked for a home builder. I wouldn't be able to build any thing if I
had to buy all my wood. I still have a lot of lumber in stock.
12@ 1x 12x 12ft oak
6@ 1x 10 x 12ft oak
15@ 1x12 x 10 ft popular poplar
and a bunch of 4 and 6 ft peices of red redwood
I ran out of the walnut I had .
I need to find some FREE pine.
Jerry


http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage


http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/1974Tryke

Jerry - OHIO wrote:
It's popular with me because all my wood is Free wood from when I
worked for a home builder. I wouldn't be able to build any thing if I
had to buy all my wood. I still have a lot of lumber in stock.
12@ 1x 12x 12ft oak
6@ 1x 10 x 12ft oak
15@ 1x12 x 10 ft popular poplar
and a bunch of 4 and 6 ft peices of red redwood
I ran out of the walnut I had .
I need to find some FREE pine.
Jerry


http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage


http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/1974Tryke


I think that's a Whooosh.

Look at a subtitle on the first page of the first link.