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Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with
some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
"Kadaifi" wrote in message
... Rick Brandt wrote: On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:56:02 +0000, Kadaifi wrote: I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? How about $38/hr? None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing but I provide him with a place to live? I would ask him what he thinks is fair, since it does include room and board. If he usually makes $38 per hour, and he's doing it for room and board. I would say a couple of hours a day would cover the room and board in fine style, and then you should pay him the rest of what you decide is a fair price. Cheri |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
Kadaifi wrote:
How about $38/hr? None of the work needs to be done. That's irrelevant, if he's working he deserves to be paid. How about he does it for nothing but I provide him with a place to live? Do motels in your area charge $38.00 an hour? Pay him $38/hour and charge him a couple of hundred bucks a week for a room, that way you aren't giving away your hospitality and he'll have some money in his pocket to get him back on his feet and looking for a job. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
so why'd you ask here?
s "Kadaifi" wrote in message ... None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing but I provide him with a place to live? |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
Kadaifi wrote:
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? BTDT. Nothing is more permanent that a relative that moves in 'temporarily'. Only you can judge- is he out of work due to the economy, or because he is a less-than-ideal employee? Why does he have no place to live? Not trying to pre-judge your relative, but I have a few of my own that are skilled and experienced, but less than fully functional. If you are going to pay 'prevailing' (aka union scale) wages, things might be a lot more business-like if he rents a small apartment to live in, and just stashes his tools at your place, while the work is going on. If you have the space to put him up without pain, and you think the after-hours time together will be pleasant or helpful, okay, but if I was giving room and board, I wouldn't pay over 20 bucks an hour. And speaking from sad experience- don't cut him any slack on the speed or quality of the work- you would not be doing either of you any favors. Standard disclaimer- you said you live in the northeast- some areas in that part of country are notorious about being asses about permits, and while 'owner installed' is often exempt, work done by a relative that is temporarily residing there, but paid for his work, may make their heads explode (especially if he isn't licensed). Best to research that before you start, rather than being faced with having to rip out and redo. Plus, of course, talk to your insurance agent about an appropriate rider to your household policy, for the duration of the remodeling work. -- aem sends... |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
In article ,
Kadaifi wrote: I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? Pay him $38/hr. Charge him $350/wk for room and board. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
What happens when the work's done? Are you going to toss him out?
What if he stops in the middle because he finds work? Paying per hour (or for the job) and then charging rent might reduce the chances of conflict. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
Steve Barker wrote: so why'd you ask here? s "Kadaifi" wrote in message ... None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing but I provide him with a place to live? He originally asked for a loan. I thought I'd be a nice guy and offer him some work to help him out. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
Arnie Goetchius wrote:
Steve Barker wrote: so why'd you ask here? s "Kadaifi" wrote in message ... None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing but I provide him with a place to live? He originally asked for a loan. I thought I'd be a nice guy and offer him some work to help him out. Ouch. BTDT, as well. Whenever you loan money to a relative, kiss it goodbye- that way if they DO pay it back, it comes as a pleasant surprise. -- aem sends... |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:56:02 GMT, Kadaifi wrote:
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. I don't know. But get a contract in writing that includes the elements of a contrracting job... He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. And the elements of the lease. Tell them your granfather before he died (great grandfather if your grandfather is sill alive, father if your father's not) made you promise to get things in writing. The purpose of the contract is not to have something to fight him with later on. It's to prevent fighting. It's so that both sides will know before the job starts and while the job is going one, what their duties are and what they will get in return. Ans so both parties will know the same thing, becuase it's in writing, one copy for each, signed by both. It doesn't mean either of you is untrustworthy, but people misunderstand, forget, and not only that, often important things are not even discussed. No one knows what was intended. Any thoughts? Cogito, ergo sum. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Jan 11, 2:09*pm, Kadaifi wrote:
Rick Brandt wrote: On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:56:02 +0000, Kadaifi wrote: I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? How about $38/hr? None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing but I provide him with a place to live?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - In 2-4 days he will have paid rent, you want free work from him every day? Get bids on the work, he should do it a bit cheaper and pay rent. If its not fair it wont work. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
I would pay the guy at least something. He will still have expenses other
than room and board. When he finishes the initial work, find him some other jobs, possibly with neighbors. If he does a good job, show his work off to neighbors. Incentive for him to do good work. "Kadaifi" wrote in message ... I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
"Kadaifi" wrote in message ... I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? I paid an out-of-work carpenter to do some major repairs here this past fall. The rate we agreed on was $40/hr, but if I had been providing room and board I'd probably chop $10-15 off that depending on how much he eats, and how comfortable he becomes in your home. My guy was both skilled and productive, so I had no problem with the rate. Keith |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
"Kadaifi" wrote in message
... I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? He'll steal you blind and have sex with your wife or daughter-- maybe both... |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Jan 11, 1:56*pm, Kadaifi wrote:
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? 38 an hr, thats is union and he isnt making anything. What do locals charge now in winter. Alot are out of work and may normaly cut their price in winter. I never hire union. I think you might be near 14-18 in range and cheap rent but you need bids to compare and base prices on or the work might take 20 years. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
Cheri wrote:
None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing but I provide him with a place to live? I would ask him what he thinks is fair, since it does include room and board. If he usually makes $38 per hour, and he's doing it for room and board. I would say a couple of hours a day would cover the room and board in fine style, and then you should pay him the rest of what you decide is a fair price. Cheri The reason he makes $38/hour is because he doesn't work all the available hours so he has to make extra when he does work to cover the slack times. This is a slack time for which he would normally be getting nothing anyway. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
"trailer" wrote in message ... I would pay the guy at least something. He will still have expenses other than room and board. When he finishes the initial work, find him some other jobs, possibly with neighbors. If he does a good job, show his work off to neighbors. Incentive for him to do good work. Good idea about showing his work. Put *that* in the contract as well. That way you will be on the up and up if you are warning someone of a shoddy job. "Hey, I just showed them your work as we agreed". Either way, the contract that spells out everything, as already mentioned, will cover you both against forgetfulness. Tell him that too. Nothng hidden and no ill intent. If he doesn't go for it, nothing lost and a heartache saved! Chuck |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Jan 11, 2:56*pm, Kadaifi wrote:
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? Umm. Unless you are 8 or more units AND have the construction being done with state/federal money, prevailing wage is irrelevant. If you must pay prevailing wages (aka DBRA), then you must get a wage determination. To start that, you must know if you are paying "residential rate" or "building rate" -- either can apply depending on the circumstances. If you are paying Federal prevailing wages, you can "lock" them at the start of construction but some (all?) state wages do not lock so they may change during construction. Now, if you are paying prevailing wage rates because you are getting some state/federal subsidy, remember that Federal subsidies trigger all kinds of other niceties. For example, they will trigger lead-safe work practices. If the cost is above $25,000; then it'll trigger abatement. Since you're hiring him, you also have asbestos testing requirements under Federal law. As for the lead, don't worry about the Fed requirements. You should use lead-safe work practices anyway. Good luck with it. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:39:33 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote: In article , Kadaifi wrote: I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? Pay him $38/hr. Charge him $350/wk for room and board. Disagree on the room/board: we charge $350 a month just for room (includes private bathroom and cable TV and DSL and use of laundry facilities in basement). Let him pay for his own board out of his hourly wages. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:33:06 -0800, "DGDevin"
wrote: Kadaifi wrote: How about $38/hr? None of the work needs to be done. That's irrelevant, if he's working he deserves to be paid. It's not irrelvant 38 is the price paid by a willing buyer to a willing seller. The OP probably wasn't going to do this work now, maybe not ever, but he's trying to do his relative a favor. An unwilling buyer like the OP can pay less, if he isn't willing to pay the full amount. Of course if he pays too little, maybe the guy will do a bad job. OTOH, is the guy as competent as the pros to begin with? Why isn't he working if he is? How about he does it for nothing but I provide him with a place to live? Do motels in your area charge $38.00 an hour? Pay him $38/hour and charge him a couple of hundred bucks a week for a room, that way you aren't giving away your hospitality and he'll have some money in his pocket to get him back on his feet and looking for a job. Good points. Of course 35 or 30 dollars should accomplish that too. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:33:06 -0800, "DGDevin"
wrote: Kadaifi wrote: And I left out that there are all kinds of reasons not to be in business with a relative. Normally he would hire someone else even if he wanted the job done today. Maybe there should be a lower salary and a completion bonus. OTOH, that leaves the problem that if the situation falls apart 2/3rd of the way in, the guy will feel cheated out of his completion bonus. Maybe. But the OP could give be resistant and then compromise on 1/2 or 2/3 of the bonus. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:55:14 -0500, mm
wrote: I don't know. But get a contract in writing that includes the elements of a contrracting job... He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. And the elements of the lease The other postssers are right. Get a contract for the work and a separate lease for the room. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
In article ,
KLS wrote: On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:39:33 -0800, Smitty Two wrote: In article , Kadaifi wrote: I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? Pay him $38/hr. Charge him $350/wk for room and board. Disagree on the room/board: we charge $350 a month just for room (includes private bathroom and cable TV and DSL and use of laundry facilities in basement). Let him pay for his own board out of his hourly wages. So you think he'll eat more than $1050 worth of food in a month? |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
"Kadaifi" wrote in message ... I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? Ask him. Maybe he will work for less being it is for a relative, and since work is tight. If he wants more, you'll know if he's a good relative or not. Steve |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
mm wrote:
Pay him $38/hour and charge him a couple of hundred bucks a week for a room, that way you aren't giving away your hospitality and he'll have some money in his pocket to get him back on his feet and looking for a job. Good points. Of course 35 or 30 dollars should accomplish that too. Sure, just so long as the recipient doesn't feel he's getting grudging charity and/or being taken advantage of. Gas money etc. will also help him find work a lot faster than just a room and a few meals. And who knows, maybe one day the currently out of work relative will be in a position to return the favor. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 21:21:50 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote: In article , KLS wrote: Pay him $38/hr. Charge him $350/wk for room and board. Disagree on the room/board: we charge $350 a month just for room (includes private bathroom and cable TV and DSL and use of laundry facilities in basement). Let him pay for his own board out of his hourly wages. So you think he'll eat more than $1050 worth of food in a month? Not necessarily: just saying that allowing him to spend his $$ as he wishes on food relieves the OP of the responsibility of providing enough/appropriate food/drink and avoids the risk of arguments in that arena. Also frees up $$ for relative to use for gas. |
[ What ] to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
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[ What ] to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
Jerry - OHIO wrote:
Minimum wage http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/1974Tryke I'm sure pleased to hear that poplar is a popular wood! |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:37:41 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote: "Kadaifi" wrote in message ... I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? Ask him. Good advice. Or somewhere in between. "I was thinking of xx dollars/hour. Is that all right? (I'm not sure.) ...." Maybe he will work for less being it is for a relative, and since work is tight. If he wants more, you'll know if he's a good relative or not. Steve |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Jan 11, 1:56 pm, Kadaifi wrote:
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? Perhaps it would be best to avoid mentioning specific dollar amounts. Show him what you have to offer in terms of a place to stay and then negotiate what he might do for that. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
Kadaifi wrote:
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? It is a bad idea on several levels. First, IMO, that doing business or financial deals with relatives is a bad idea. I would have to know a lot more before advising to go ahead ... what relationship? Why does he not go elsewhere for work? Why is he homeless? How old? Married? Debts? A mature adult needs their own living space.......living under your roof makes him responsible to you, and in combination with doing work on your home, it just seems to invite too many conflicts. What would be the rule for work hours, having guests, length of stay? If you set a time limit and he still "can't find work", what will you do? How long can he stay before he establishes legal residency? A competent carpenter can certainly find work, although it may be another vocation for a time. I have know a couple of elderly folks who, when they passed away, left lists of all the little "loans" to family. I decided long ago that if family needed money, it would be a gift and not a loan. If I can afford to lend it, I can afford to give it, and it is a done deal. No worry for either party and no "look at all I've done for you". And it wouldn't be time after time, because folks either take responsibility for finances or lose privileges. What doesn't kill ya/ makes ya' stronger. And smarter. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Jan 11, 1:56*pm, Kadaifi wrote:
I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? I pay $30/hr for this kind of arrangement, with a friend of a friend not a relative. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
First, I'd allow him to stay for 2-3 weeks (possibly a month) for
free, including food. Make it clear from the beginning what the rent will be, charge the upper monthly rent rate, pay $10 an hour, and food is not provided. Motivate independence. |
Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
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Whar to pay an out of work relative for re-modeling work
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:09:50 GMT, Kadaifi wrote:
Rick Brandt wrote: On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:56:02 +0000, Kadaifi wrote: I have a relative who is out of work. I thought I would help him with some re-modeling work. He is an experienced home re-modeler and I don't question his experience. My question is what to pay? The work might include installing re-placement windows, re-model some bathrooms, new siding, etc. The prevailing base wage rate established by the state (North East) for a journey carpenter is about $38/hr. He has no place to live so would move in here and we would provide room and board. Any thoughts? How about $38/hr? None of the work needs to be done. How about he does it for nothing but I provide him with a place to live? How about discussing this with HIM. Yes, room and board are worth something, and so is his time doing your repairs. But this is between YOU and HIM. Why would you even ask this to a newsgroup? It's a personal matter not something any of us can answer. It's the same thing if I was to ask everyone on a newsgroup if I should marry some woman I have been dating. You have a brain (I assume), so use it. This is one of the most stupid questions I have seen posted to this group. Jim |
[ What ] to pay an out of work relative for re-modelingwork
It's popular with me because all my wood is Free wood from when I
worked for a home builder. I wouldn't be able to build any thing if I had to buy all my wood. I still have a lot of lumber in stock. 12@ 1x 12x 12ft oak 6@ 1x 10 x 12ft oak 15@ 1x12 x 10 ft popular poplar and a bunch of 4 and 6 ft peices of red redwood I ran out of the walnut I had . I need to find some FREE pine. Jerry http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/1974Tryke |
[ What ] to pay an out of work relative for re-modelingwork
Jerry - OHIO wrote:
It's popular with me because all my wood is Free wood from when I worked for a home builder. I wouldn't be able to build any thing if I had to buy all my wood. I still have a lot of lumber in stock. 12@ 1x 12x 12ft oak 6@ 1x 10 x 12ft oak 15@ 1x12 x 10 ft popular poplar and a bunch of 4 and 6 ft peices of red redwood I ran out of the walnut I had . I need to find some FREE pine. Jerry http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/1974Tryke I think that's a Whooosh. Look at a subtitle on the first page of the first link. |
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