On Jul 7, 6:07 am, mm wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 01:18:00 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 7, 3:13 am, mm wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:55:23 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 6, 8:05 pm, "Noon-Air" wrote:
wrote in message
...

Hire a *competent*, licensed, bonded, insured, professionally trained HVAC
technician, instead of depending on some flunkie handiman that couldn't make
it doing anything else.

What specifically do I ask him tomorrow? (Types of HVAC

Ask him what the problem is, and how long it will take to fix it.

Since he doesn't work for you, he may not tell you, but if you are
nice, and not the least bit snotty, he may well tell you.

Maybe ask him if it's worth repairing or not, although that is not his
decision and he may be much less willing to speculate. OTOH, if he
knows it's a 50 dollar problem, he may be wiling to speculate. But
you have to be even nicer to get answers to hard questions.
(sometimes even when you yourself are paying).

certifications?)

BTW, in practice, I don't think the guy's certifications matter. I
guess that's why I skipped this part before. He's the guy the
landlord or the AC contractor chose to send. If I were the AC
contractor, I'd want to hire someone with certification**, and if he
is going to recharge the system, I gather he must have certification,
but one can know just as much without certification as with, and the
important thing is that he diagnose the problem correctly. I don't
have much AC experience but I"ve been misdiagosed over the years by 4
medical doctors with certification, 2 of them specialists, so
certification doesn't impress me anymore.

**although if I had someone I knew knew AC, and he didn't have cert,
but was cheaper to hire, and he wasn't going to be the only tech, I'd
hire him too. He can diagnose and do other repairs, and if it needs
recharging, I'll send the certified guy.

He is being sent by the landlord, which I don't pay
for.

The landlord is required to keep the A/C working properly.

Within a reasonable time, of learning it's not working properly. I
think that is the law in all US states, unless the lease says
something different, which it most likely doesn't. NYC and many
places have more specific laws about providing heat, but I think not
about providing AC.

Are you
suggesting that underhanded behavior is so common as to be practically
expected?

I didn't suggest anything underhanded at all, on the part of the
repairman or the landlord. What words are you referring to where you
think I did?

It's often hard to get a good answer out of a repairman, whether you
are paying the bill or someone else is, and I'm not quite sure why**,
but I don't think there is anything underhanded about it, except in a
few cases that I don't think apply to you. They don't apply to you
because he's not working for you, he works for the landlord. They
probably don't apply to the landlord either, because all but the
smallest landlords are a source of repeat business for contractors.

**Probably IMO the biggest reason is, if he's not the boss of the
repair company, he doesn't want to make decisions that his employer
has the power and right to make. He doesn't want to get caught in the
middle between the customer and his boss, so he tells his boss what
the situation is, and the boss deals with the customer. In this case,
with a landlord/tenant, even if the repairman is the boss of his own
company, he won't want to get caught between his "employer", the
landlord who hires him, and the tenant. But this is not underhanded.
It's totally reasonable. And the consequences when someone does get
caught in the middle are often more than enough to keep him from ever
letting it happen again.

Pretty much the only way out of this, afaict, for the customer is to
seem like a regular guy who won't make a stink if the boss later
contradicts the employee, or the landlord contradicts the contractor,
because a regular guy understands that the boss is the boss, and the
employee can't actually make committments. Once one gives that
impression, he has to actually live up to it, or he, or she, is a
scoundrel and dishonorable.

I"m not talking about accepting shoddy work. I'm talking about asking
the guy who comes to your house what the problem is, and how long it
will take to fix it, and whether it is worth repairing it or not, and
then if and when the boss or the landlord gives one different answers,
saying, "Well the guy who was here says yada yada which contradicts
you." One shouldn't say that.

Unless it is a literal life and death matter, and I can't imagine how
that could be, one shouldn't do that. It doesn't matter what the guy
tells you when he's there. It only matters that the AC gets fixed,
and nothing the repair man SAYS to you has any effect on that.

If the guy tells you something and the boss or landlord tells you
something else, one should just suck it up and not get the guy in
trouble. If you get him in trouble -- even if he doesn't get in
trouble, but he knows a customer quoted him when the boss said
something else -- he'll never tell another customer a thing.

You may never know for sure who is right. Them's the breaks. Maybe
the techician made a mistake, and somehow the boss knows it without
even seeing the jobsite. Maybe the boss or landlord knows something
the repair guy doesn't know. Maybe the landlord plans to replace the
whole system in a year or two**, but doesn't want to say that or the
tenants will hold him to it, even if he doesn't have as much money as
he thinks he will (like if one or two apartments are unexpectedly
vacant for a while) It's not at all necessary for either to be lying
or underhanded for them to say different things.

**Maybe the landlord plans to sell the building in a year or two and
isn't willing to do all the repairs he should. I'm not saying every
landlord does everything he should or that every repairman always does
everything right. But I have no reason to think and didn't suggest
that there was anything underhanded in this case.

I just posted a description of what maintenance didn't do as a reponse
to my original post.

On Jul 7, 9:41 am, wrote:
On Jul 7, 3:13 am, mm wrote:



On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:55:23 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 6, 8:05 pm, "Noon-Air" wrote:
wrote in message
...

Hire a *competent*, licensed, bonded, insured, professionally trained HVAC
technician, instead of depending on some flunkie handiman that couldn't make
it doing anything else.

What specifically do I ask him tomorrow? (Types of HVAC

Ask him what the problem is, and how long it will take to fix it.

Since he doesn't work for you, he may not tell you, but if you are
nice, and not the least bit snotty, he may well tell you.

Maybe ask him if it's worth repairing or not, although that is not his
decision and he may be much less willing to speculate. OTOH, if he
knows it's a 50 dollar problem, he may be wiling to speculate. But
you have to be even nicer to get answers to hard questions.
(sometimes even when you yourself are paying).

certifications?) He is being sent by the landlord, which I don't pay
for.

I just posted a description of what maintenance didn't do as a reponse
to my original post.

why are you now posting multiple replies?

new to this whole thing,, huh?

On Jul 7, 1:44 am, Gordon wrote:
Here are few things that need to be checked.

1)Outside coil should be hosed off at least once a year.
If you have access to a hose bib and a hoes you can
do this yourself.

2) Air filter should be replaced monthly.

3) There may be a freon leak. Maintenance can top it off.

wrote in news:1183764250.640399.227540
@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
have a thermometer.)

Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
apartment.

Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
right,

Ask them what the problem was and what they did to fix it.

Thanks


I just posted a description of what maintenance didn't do as a reponse
to my original post.

On Jul 7, 12:41 pm, BobK207 wrote:
On Jul 7, 9:27 am, wrote:



On Jul 6, 7:24 pm, wrote:

It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
have a thermometer.)

Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
apartment.

Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
right, or make the landlord replace it if it won't work properly? The
electric bill is outragous.

Maintenance came today. He hooked an electric probe in two places, and
in two minutes he said "it's fine." He hadn't checked the output
temperature. I asked him to do that. (The A/C was off before he came,
as it wasn't working right, so it's only been running for a couple
minutes.) He went back to his van and got a thermometer (laser,
interesting). The output temperature was 70 deg, and the house was 82
deg. I said it should be 20 deg. "Why do you think it should be 20 deg
different?" he says. I told him that's what I found on the internet.
He checked more wires with his probe for another 5 minutes, then
checked the temperature again. It now said 64 deg (18 deg different).
He said it had to run for a while to get to that temp. (Recall, he
just asked why I thought is should be 20 deg.) I explained the
problem of it not cooling down below 83 deg in 7 hours, and never
having an electric bill like we just had in the year and a half we'd
already been here. He didn't have anything to say, and didn't check
anything else. He never looked at the outside part of the unit. I
asked if he had a contractor HVAC license as he was leaving. He said
yes. I said I'd come down with him and write the number down. When I
got to his van he said I'm not giving you my contractors number, the
landlord has it. I said I need to keep proper records because the
cooling bill is outragous, and the A/C is not cooling the apartment.
He wouldn't give it to me. I said well then I'll write down your plate
number and write the state about it.

(Also, he said the previous problem las month was a broken relay.)

Unfortunately, the law doesn't require him to have a license. I just
found the following on the net:
G.S. 87-21 (c) To Whom Article Applies. - The provisions of this
Article shall apply to all persons, firms, or corporations who engage
in, or attempt to engage in, the business of plumbing, heating, or
fire sprinkler contracting, or any combination thereof as defined in
this Article. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to those
who make minor repairs or minor replacements to an already installed
system of plumbing or heating, but shall apply to those who make
repairs, replacements, or modifications to an already installed fire
sprinkler system.

I can see your attitude & problem solving skills are really moving
that ball forward.

quoting law / code ain't going to get your apt cooled off

must really suck to be you.........hope it's not too hot today for
you

I asked if he had a license as he was leaving. Can you read?

The guy was obviously pretty clueless about A/C.

I'll be writing a detailed letter to the landlord, and the state
licensing board (they may have some input even though he apparently
doesn' have to know what he's doing).

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 7, 9:41 am, wrote:
On Jul 7, 3:13 am, mm wrote:



On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:55:23 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 6, 8:05 pm, "Noon-Air" wrote:
wrote in message
...

Hire a *competent*, licensed, bonded, insured, professionally
trained HVAC
technician, instead of depending on some flunkie handiman that
couldn't make
it doing anything else.

What specifically do I ask him tomorrow? (Types of HVAC

Ask him what the problem is, and how long it will take to fix it.

Since he doesn't work for you, he may not tell you, but if you are
nice, and not the least bit snotty, he may well tell you.

Maybe ask him if it's worth repairing or not, although that is not his
decision and he may be much less willing to speculate. OTOH, if he
knows it's a 50 dollar problem, he may be wiling to speculate. But
you have to be even nicer to get answers to hard questions.
(sometimes even when you yourself are paying).

certifications?) He is being sent by the landlord, which I don't pay
for.

I just posted a description of what maintenance didn't do as a reponse
to my original post.

why are you now posting multiple replies?

new to this whole thing,, huh?


They might be, but at least they're smart enough to realize that a $320
electric bill isn't normal.

On Jul 7, 9:45 am, wrote:
On Jul 7, 12:41 pm, BobK207 wrote:



On Jul 7, 9:27 am, wrote:

On Jul 6, 7:24 pm, wrote:

It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
have a thermometer.)

Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
apartment.

Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
right, or make the landlord replace it if it won't work properly? The
electric bill is outragous.

Maintenance came today. He hooked an electric probe in two places, and
in two minutes he said "it's fine." He hadn't checked the output
temperature. I asked him to do that. (The A/C was off before he came,
as it wasn't working right, so it's only been running for a couple
minutes.) He went back to his van and got a thermometer (laser,
interesting). The output temperature was 70 deg, and the house was 82
deg. I said it should be 20 deg. "Why do you think it should be 20 deg
different?" he says. I told him that's what I found on the internet.
He checked more wires with his probe for another 5 minutes, then
checked the temperature again. It now said 64 deg (18 deg different).
He said it had to run for a while to get to that temp. (Recall, he
just asked why I thought is should be 20 deg.) I explained the
problem of it not cooling down below 83 deg in 7 hours, and never
having an electric bill like we just had in the year and a half we'd
already been here. He didn't have anything to say, and didn't check
anything else. He never looked at the outside part of the unit. I
asked if he had a contractor HVAC license as he was leaving. He said
yes. I said I'd come down with him and write the number down. When I
got to his van he said I'm not giving you my contractors number, the
landlord has it. I said I need to keep proper records because the
cooling bill is outragous, and the A/C is not cooling the apartment.
He wouldn't give it to me. I said well then I'll write down your plate
number and write the state about it.

(Also, he said the previous problem las month was a broken relay.)

Unfortunately, the law doesn't require him to have a license. I just
found the following on the net:
G.S. 87-21 (c) To Whom Article Applies. - The provisions of this
Article shall apply to all persons, firms, or corporations who engage
in, or attempt to engage in, the business of plumbing, heating, or
fire sprinkler contracting, or any combination thereof as defined in
this Article. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to those
who make minor repairs or minor replacements to an already installed
system of plumbing or heating, but shall apply to those who make
repairs, replacements, or modifications to an already installed fire
sprinkler system.

I can see your attitude & problem solving skills are really moving
that ball forward.

quoting law / code ain't going to get your apt cooled off

must really suck to be you.........hope it's not too hot today for
you

I asked if he had a license as he was leaving. Can you read?

The guy was obviously pretty clueless about A/C.

I'll be writing a detailed letter to the landlord, and the state
licensing board (they may have some input even though he apparently
doesn' have to know what he's doing).

Apt getting any cooler?

On Jul 7, 9:45 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Jul 7, 9:41 am, wrote:
On Jul 7, 3:13 am, mm wrote:

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:55:23 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 6, 8:05 pm, "Noon-Air" wrote:
wrote in message
...

Hire a *competent*, licensed, bonded, insured, professionally
trained HVAC
technician, instead of depending on some flunkie handiman that
couldn't make
it doing anything else.

What specifically do I ask him tomorrow? (Types of HVAC

Ask him what the problem is, and how long it will take to fix it.

Since he doesn't work for you, he may not tell you, but if you are
nice, and not the least bit snotty, he may well tell you.

Maybe ask him if it's worth repairing or not, although that is not his
decision and he may be much less willing to speculate. OTOH, if he
knows it's a 50 dollar problem, he may be wiling to speculate. But
you have to be even nicer to get answers to hard questions.
(sometimes even when you yourself are paying).

certifications?) He is being sent by the landlord, which I don't pay
for.

I just posted a description of what maintenance didn't do as a reponse
to my original post.

why are you now posting multiple replies?

new to this whole thing,, huh?

They might be, but at least they're smart enough to realize that a $320
electric bill isn't normal.

The fact that "a $320 electric bill isn't normal" for AC in a 800 sq
ft is pretty much of a "duh"

It was clear early on that her AC isn't working

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 7, 9:45 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Jul 7, 9:41 am, wrote:
On Jul 7, 3:13 am, mm wrote:

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:55:23 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 6, 8:05 pm, "Noon-Air" wrote:
wrote in message
...

Hire a *competent*, licensed, bonded, insured, professionally
trained HVAC
technician, instead of depending on some flunkie handiman that
couldn't make
it doing anything else.

What specifically do I ask him tomorrow? (Types of HVAC

Ask him what the problem is, and how long it will take to fix it.

Since he doesn't work for you, he may not tell you, but if you are
nice, and not the least bit snotty, he may well tell you.

Maybe ask him if it's worth repairing or not, although that is not
his
decision and he may be much less willing to speculate. OTOH, if
he
knows it's a 50 dollar problem, he may be wiling to speculate.
But
you have to be even nicer to get answers to hard questions.
(sometimes even when you yourself are paying).

certifications?) He is being sent by the landlord, which I don't
pay
for.

I just posted a description of what maintenance didn't do as a
reponse
to my original post.

why are you now posting multiple replies?

new to this whole thing,, huh?

They might be, but at least they're smart enough to realize that a $320
electric bill isn't normal.

The fact that "a $320 electric bill isn't normal" for AC in a 800 sq
ft is pretty much of a "duh"

It was clear early on that her AC isn't working


For you and others to be harping on "how many hours has it been running" is
pretty much mute, DUH!!!!

You still don't get it.

wrote:

On Jul 7, 12:41 pm, BobK207 wrote:

On Jul 7, 9:27 am, wrote:




On Jul 6, 7:24 pm, wrote:

It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
have a thermometer.)

Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
apartment.

Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
right, or make the landlord replace it if it won't work properly? The
electric bill is outragous.

Maintenance came today. He hooked an electric probe in two places, and
in two minutes he said "it's fine." He hadn't checked the output
temperature. I asked him to do that. (The A/C was off before he came,
as it wasn't working right, so it's only been running for a couple
minutes.) He went back to his van and got a thermometer (laser,
interesting). The output temperature was 70 deg, and the house was 82
deg. I said it should be 20 deg. "Why do you think it should be 20 deg
different?" he says. I told him that's what I found on the internet.
He checked more wires with his probe for another 5 minutes, then
checked the temperature again. It now said 64 deg (18 deg different).
He said it had to run for a while to get to that temp. (Recall, he
just asked why I thought is should be 20 deg.) I explained the
problem of it not cooling down below 83 deg in 7 hours, and never
having an electric bill like we just had in the year and a half we'd
already been here. He didn't have anything to say, and didn't check
anything else. He never looked at the outside part of the unit. I
asked if he had a contractor HVAC license as he was leaving. He said
yes. I said I'd come down with him and write the number down. When I
got to his van he said I'm not giving you my contractors number, the
landlord has it. I said I need to keep proper records because the
cooling bill is outragous, and the A/C is not cooling the apartment.
He wouldn't give it to me. I said well then I'll write down your plate
number and write the state about it.

(Also, he said the previous problem las month was a broken relay.)

Unfortunately, the law doesn't require him to have a license. I just
found the following on the net:
G.S. 87-21 (c) To Whom Article Applies. - The provisions of this
Article shall apply to all persons, firms, or corporations who engage
in, or attempt to engage in, the business of plumbing, heating, or
fire sprinkler contracting, or any combination thereof as defined in
this Article. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to those
who make minor repairs or minor replacements to an already installed
system of plumbing or heating, but shall apply to those who make
repairs, replacements, or modifications to an already installed fire
sprinkler system.

I can see your attitude & problem solving skills are really moving
that ball forward.

quoting law / code ain't going to get your apt cooled off

must really suck to be you.........hope it's not too hot today for
you


I asked if he had a license as he was leaving. Can you read?

The guy was obviously pretty clueless about A/C.

I'll be writing a detailed letter to the landlord, and the state
licensing board (they may have some input even though he apparently
doesn' have to know what he's doing).


Y'know Carie, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

My curious mind wants to know....Are you married or single?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
news
Y'know Carie, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

My curious mind wants to know....Are you married or single?


Hell, how about a picture? :-)

"spamhater" wrote in message
...
Jeffrey Lebowski wrote:




Suck my dick.

--

That's your dick? I thought it was the tip of your thumb.


Shut the hell up and keep sucking.

--

On Jul 7, 10:20 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Jul 7, 9:45 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Jul 7, 9:41 am, wrote:
On Jul 7, 3:13 am, mm wrote:

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:55:23 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 6, 8:05 pm, "Noon-Air" wrote:
wrote in message
...

Hire a *competent*, licensed, bonded, insured, professionally
trained HVAC
technician, instead of depending on some flunkie handiman that
couldn't make
it doing anything else.

What specifically do I ask him tomorrow? (Types of HVAC

Ask him what the problem is, and how long it will take to fix it.

Since he doesn't work for you, he may not tell you, but if you are
nice, and not the least bit snotty, he may well tell you.

Maybe ask him if it's worth repairing or not, although that is not
his
decision and he may be much less willing to speculate. OTOH, if
he
knows it's a 50 dollar problem, he may be wiling to speculate.
But
you have to be even nicer to get answers to hard questions.
(sometimes even when you yourself are paying).

certifications?) He is being sent by the landlord, which I don't
pay
for.

I just posted a description of what maintenance didn't do as a
reponse
to my original post.

why are you now posting multiple replies?

new to this whole thing,, huh?

They might be, but at least they're smart enough to realize that a $320
electric bill isn't normal.

The fact that "a $320 electric bill isn't normal" for AC in a 800 sq
ft is pretty much of a "duh"

It was clear early on that her AC isn't working

For you and others to be harping on "how many hours has it been running" is
pretty much mute, DUH!!!!

You still don't get it.



btw that would moot, not mute

I get it just fine, IMO you're missing the point of "tangential"
comments in some of the posts..............

For you and others to be harping on "how many hours has it been running"

We were merely harping on the fashion in which the original
information was conveyed....poorly.

when she originally talked about running for "hours" it was unclear
as to whether she was being accurate (that the unit had in fact been
running for 7 hours) or exaggerating, like many non-technical people
do.

I've had a tenant tell me .......... "the heater's been running for a
long time & the house is still cold"

well the truth of the matter was 28F outside, 50F "soak" temp & the
heater had been running for not quite 2 hours

nothing wrong with the furnace, unrealistic expectation on the part of
the "operator"

its the details that matter..........

On Jul 7, 10:41 am, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
wrote:
On Jul 7, 12:41 pm, BobK207 wrote:

On Jul 7, 9:27 am, wrote:

On Jul 6, 7:24 pm, wrote:

It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
have a thermometer.)

Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
apartment.

Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
right, or make the landlord replace it if it won't work properly? The
electric bill is outragous.

Maintenance came today. He hooked an electric probe in two places, and
in two minutes he said "it's fine." He hadn't checked the output
temperature. I asked him to do that. (The A/C was off before he came,
as it wasn't working right, so it's only been running for a couple
minutes.) He went back to his van and got a thermometer (laser,
interesting). The output temperature was 70 deg, and the house was 82
deg. I said it should be 20 deg. "Why do you think it should be 20 deg
different?" he says. I told him that's what I found on the internet.
He checked more wires with his probe for another 5 minutes, then
checked the temperature again. It now said 64 deg (18 deg different).
He said it had to run for a while to get to that temp. (Recall, he
just asked why I thought is should be 20 deg.) I explained the
problem of it not cooling down below 83 deg in 7 hours, and never
having an electric bill like we just had in the year and a half we'd
already been here. He didn't have anything to say, and didn't check
anything else. He never looked at the outside part of the unit. I
asked if he had a contractor HVAC license as he was leaving. He said
yes. I said I'd come down with him and write the number down. When I
got to his van he said I'm not giving you my contractors number, the
landlord has it. I said I need to keep proper records because the
cooling bill is outragous, and the A/C is not cooling the apartment.
He wouldn't give it to me. I said well then I'll write down your plate
number and write the state about it.

(Also, he said the previous problem las month was a broken relay.)

Unfortunately, the law doesn't require him to have a license. I just
found the following on the net:
G.S. 87-21 (c) To Whom Article Applies. - The provisions of this
Article shall apply to all persons, firms, or corporations who engage
in, or attempt to engage in, the business of plumbing, heating, or
fire sprinkler contracting, or any combination thereof as defined in
this Article. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to those
who make minor repairs or minor replacements to an already installed
system of plumbing or heating, but shall apply to those who make
repairs, replacements, or modifications to an already installed fire
sprinkler system.

I can see your attitude & problem solving skills are really moving
that ball forward.

quoting law / code ain't going to get your apt cooled off

must really suck to be you.........hope it's not too hot today for
you

I asked if he had a license as he was leaving. Can you read?

The guy was obviously pretty clueless about A/C.

I'll be writing a detailed letter to the landlord, and the state
licensing board (they may have some input even though he apparently
doesn' have to know what he's doing).

Y'know Carie, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

My curious mind wants to know....Are you married or single?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.



Jeff-

She wants the AC to cool her apt at a reasonable cost....I don't she's
interested in catching flies

cheers
Bob

my money's on single

wrote:
You've got to be kidding. Enough "hours" that any human who has ever
used A/C would recognize that there's a problem. Here's what he
said:

"Running for hours could mean anything more than one hour. There's
not much information there.

Indeed. This by itself isn't much information. I'm no expert, but I
know that A/C units need to be properly sized for the load. (If a
unit is oversized, bad things happen like either excessively short
cycle times or uncomfortable temperature swings, and maybe problems
with humidity regulation.) What this means is that on the hottest
few days of the year, the A/C *should* run a lot. If I understand
correctly, it is perfectly reasonable behavior for your A/C unit to
run for "hours" on the hottest few days of the year.

Now, combine that with the fact that the large parts of the Western
US have been experiencing a heat wave. There may be record high
temperatures where you live. Or maybe not; you might not live in
one of those areas that is experiencing record highs. We don't have
that information.

The $320 electric bill is a sign, but it's not really proof of anything.
There was a guy who posted to misc.consumers.frugal-living only a few
weeks ago whose electric bill at a small office suite was through the
roof, even though he was only there a few days a week and turned
everything off when he left. Turned out a neighboring office suite
had been accidentally wired through his meter!

So, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you to quantify "hours".
(On the other hand, the flame fest that this thread has turned into
is unreasonable.)

- Logan

wrote:
On Jul 7, 7:29 am, "HeyBub" wrote:

Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post meridian" = past
midday). That would be midnight. From there to 7:46PM means the ac has been
on for almost twenty hours.

Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
midday) which would also be midnight.

Sorry, 12:00PM is noon. Have a High School diploma?? Is English your
native language??

I have a high school (and college) diploma. Yet, I don't think everything
I heard in high school (or college) is automatically true. In particular,
2000 wasn't the first year of the new millenium, and 12:00 PM is not noon.

Here's an explanation of why:

http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/...m#Anchor-57026

Note that this comes from NIST, the National Institute of Standards
and Technology, which is the US federal government agency responsible
for standardizing measurements. These are the people who operate
NIST-F1, the atomic clock which is the primary reference for timekeeping
in the United States, and one of the primary references worldwide.

- Logan

Jeffrey Lebowski wrote:
Now, define outragous.

You ****ing slut.

I think YOU just supplied a perfectly adequate definition of 'outrageous'.

- Logan

Gordon wrote:
Here are few things that need to be checked.

1)Outside coil should be hosed off at least once a year.
If you have access to a hose bib and a hoes you can
do this yourself.

Don't you think using a hoe would damage the coil? On the other
hand, if it is *really* overgrown with grass or vines or something...

- Logan

In article , lshaw-
says...
wrote:
On Jul 7, 7:29 am, "HeyBub" wrote:

Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post meridian" = past
midday). That would be midnight. From there to 7:46PM means the ac has been
on for almost twenty hours.

Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
midday) which would also be midnight.

Sorry, 12:00PM is noon. Have a High School diploma?? Is English your
native language??

I have a high school (and college) diploma. Yet, I don't think everything
I heard in high school (or college) is automatically true. In particular,
2000 wasn't the first year of the new millenium, and 12:00 PM is not noon.

Well, we can't all be 100% correct. You're batting .500, which isn't
bad in some shapes.

Here's an explanation of why:

http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/...m#Anchor-57026

Sillyness.

Note that this comes from NIST, the National Institute of Standards
and Technology, which is the US federal government agency responsible
^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
1. What part of government is "responsible" for anything?
2. You _are_ talking about the US federal government.
3. Oxymoronic.


for standardizing measurements. These are the people who operate
NIST-F1, the atomic clock which is the primary reference for timekeeping
in the United States, and one of the primary references worldwide.

4. Pedantic.

--
Keith


--
Keith

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 08:20:20 -0700, wrote:

On Jul 7, 5:36 am, mm wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 01:13:10 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 7, 3:12 am, mm wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:47:19 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 6, 7:45 pm, "Don K" wrote:
...

What you think that any buman (who has ever used AC) would recognize
might well not be what someone else thinks.

BobK207 thinks enough of peoples intelligence to say "Oh & for clarity
don't use 12:00PM ....use noon or midnight to avoid confusion." (The
next most recent post in this thread, sorted by time.)

I saw his post. It's not bad advice. I got an 800 on my math SATs,
as high as the score goes, and it wasn't until I was 45 or so that I
finally got straight which was which. I finally came up with a way to
remmeber which was which. Logic is my thing, and not memorization.
There are lots of people who for lots of reasons haven't got it
straight, and it's good policy to make things as easy as possible for
people who are trying to help. It's almost the equivalent of removing
things that are in front of the furnace before the repairman gets
there, even though he can and will do it himself.

What's worse than AM and PM is 12m and 12M. I still don't know which
one of those is noon. I wonder how many people do.

When my mother hired a painter, she took off all he wall plates before
he got there and put them back on after he left. And other stuff like
that. They made that agreement so she could pay less. (She also
told me he was "blind", but I'm not sure what that meant. He did a
good job.)

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 11:06:44 -0500, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:


"mm" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 01:13:10 -0700, wrote:

On Jul 7, 3:12 am, mm wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:47:19 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 6, 7:45 pm, "Don K" wrote:

Running for hours could mean anything more than one hour. There's
not
much information there. Let it run overnight. If it can't bring the
apartment
down to temperature overnight, then there's something definitely
wrong
with it.

Don

It's been running non-stop since 12:00 PM, it's 7:46PM, and the temp
is still 83 deg, thermostat still at 80 deg. I would not have said
"hours" if it wasn't...

You missed his point, that hours can mean 2 or 200. So we don't know
your personality and what you would have said it if, in your opinion,
it wasn't, and even if you would not have said "hours" if it wasn't,
we still didn't know how many hours. You could have said 7 hours and
that would have been clear.

Don't be snotty, especially when you're asking for free advice.

Is there any chance the fan is on ON, and the thermostat is not
accurate? Turn the thermostat down to 70 and see if goes lower than
it is now.

Also check the outside unit and see if it is making noise, and see if
you can tell if the noise is the fan and the compressor, or just the
fan.

You've got to be kidding.

No I"m not. Plenty of idiots post here. How do we tell who is an
idiot and who isn't? Even half or more of the seemingly smart people
fail to give enough information in their first post. EVen things they
already know.

We had one a couple days ago who dribbled out the important
information a little at a time until most people had I'm sure stopped
reading the thread before all the important facts were in.

Enough "hours" that any human who has ever
used A/C would recognize that there's a problem.

And did you say that you had ever used AC before?

And again, you hadn't said how many hours. We can't read your mind.


Again, did you miss the $320 electric bill.

Clueless I tell you, just pure stupidity!

It could be that a neigbhor is using her electricity. There was a
case on tv like that just last week. And oh yeah, there was a
follow-up in this newsgroup just last week where another tenant was
was using the poster's electricity, and had been for months, since he
moved in.

So she could have two separate problems, the bill and the lack of
cooling.

But I believe the AC is broken and it alone is using the electricity,
and still we need to know details. She''s the one who wanted to
prepare before the repairman came. This is not a case of "it's too
difficult for you. Why investigate? Call the repairman." The
repairman is coming but she wanted to be prepared for him.

"Logan Shaw" wrote in message
...
wrote:
You've got to be kidding. Enough "hours" that any human who has ever
used A/C would recognize that there's a problem. Here's what he
said:

"Running for hours could mean anything more than one hour. There's
not much information there.

Indeed. This by itself isn't much information. I'm no expert, but I
know that A/C units need to be properly sized for the load. (If a
unit is oversized, bad things happen like either excessively short
cycle times or uncomfortable temperature swings, and maybe problems
with humidity regulation.) What this means is that on the hottest
few days of the year, the A/C *should* run a lot. If I understand
correctly, it is perfectly reasonable behavior for your A/C unit to
run for "hours" on the hottest few days of the year.

Now, combine that with the fact that the large parts of the Western
US have been experiencing a heat wave. There may be record high
temperatures where you live. Or maybe not; you might not live in
one of those areas that is experiencing record highs. We don't have
that information.

The $320 electric bill is a sign, but it's not really proof of anything.
There was a guy who posted to misc.consumers.frugal-living only a few
weeks ago whose electric bill at a small office suite was through the
roof, even though he was only there a few days a week and turned
everything off when he left. Turned out a neighboring office suite
had been accidentally wired through his meter!

the $320 light bill is from LAST MONTH, and has nothing to do with the
current heat wave.
The OP needs to either A) be climbing the landlords ass tot get it fixed, or
B) pony up the cash and hire a pro to fix it.

So, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you to quantify "hours".
(On the other hand, the flame fest that this thread has turned into
is unreasonable.)

- Logan

"Logan Shaw" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Jul 7, 7:29 am, "HeyBub" wrote:

Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post meridian" =
past
midday). That would be midnight. From there to 7:46PM means the ac has
been
on for almost twenty hours.

Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
midday) which would also be midnight.

Sorry, 12:00PM is noon. Have a High School diploma?? Is English your
native language??

I have a high school (and college) diploma. Yet, I don't think everything
I heard in high school (or college) is automatically true. In particular,
2000 wasn't the first year of the new millenium, and 12:00 PM is not noon.

Here's an explanation of why:

http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/...m#Anchor-57026

Note that this comes from NIST, the National Institute of Standards
and Technology, which is the US federal government agency responsible
for standardizing measurements. These are the people who operate
NIST-F1, the atomic clock which is the primary reference for timekeeping
in the United States, and one of the primary references worldwide.

Old news.... who really gives a rats ass anyway. It has absolutely nothing
to do with the price of tea in China.

"Logan Shaw" wrote in message
...
Jeffrey Lebowski wrote:
Now, define outragous.

You ****ing slut.

I think YOU just supplied a perfectly adequate definition of 'outrageous'.

Nope, "outrageous" is what the sound is thats made when you get dropped into
the killfile

*PLONK*

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 06:29:04 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:

It's been running non-stop since 12:00 PM, it's 7:46PM, and the temp
is still 83 deg, thermostat still at 80 deg. I would not have said
"hours" if it wasn't...

Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post meridian" = past
midday). That would be midnight. From there to 7:46PM means the ac has been
on for almost twenty hours.

Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
midday) which would also be midnight.

So they both mean the same thing! Wow, I thought I had this worked
out when I was 45 y.o. Now I have to start all over. Maybe NASA
could come up with a numeric term for noon, or I'll have to start
usilng a 24-hour clock.

"Jeffrey Lebowski" wrote in
news:eqCdnWVVrYolhRLbnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@scnresearch. com:


wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 6, 10:32 pm, "Jeffrey Lebowski" wrote:
wrote in message
...

Despite what you might like to think, your post is not appropriate
to
the
group alt.hvac...


The description of the group on Google is "Heating, venting and air
conditioning."
That's what this post is about.

I went and browsed the group and read some relevant threads. There is
no FAQ or charter that was voted on. There are a few people there
that are unhappy that sci.engr.heat-vent-ac didn't get popular...
which may be what this is about. The overwhelming response in the
threads is that alt.hvac is public, and for general discussion.

To anybody else replying to this guys post, note he added a
"follow-up to:" header to alt.****tard, and your newsreader may send
it there and not to the relevant groups. Posting via Google will do
that, so just replace alt.****tard with
"alt.home.repair,misc.consumers.frugal- living,alt.hvac"
This guy is talking about netiquette, and this says a lot about his
post.


Suck my dick.

I think that's a different alt.* group.


--

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 14:57:04 -0500, Logan Shaw
wrote:

wrote:
On Jul 7, 7:29 am, "HeyBub" wrote:

Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post meridian" = past
midday). That would be midnight. From there to 7:46PM means the ac has been
on for almost twenty hours.

Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
midday) which would also be midnight.

Sorry, 12:00PM is noon. Have a High School diploma?? Is English your
native language??

I have a high school (and college) diploma. Yet, I don't think everything
I heard in high school (or college) is automatically true. In particular,
2000 wasn't the first year of the new millenium, and 12:00 PM is not noon.

Here's an explanation of why:

http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/...m#Anchor-57026

This is so on-point, I think it deserves to be quoted. Also, I don't
think there can be copyright issues with government websites info, all
of which should be in the public domain"

Are noon and midnight 12 a.m. or 12 p.m.?

This is a tricky question. The answer is that the terms 12 a.m.
and 12 p.m. are wrong and should not be used.

To illustrate this, consider that "a.m" and "p.m." are
abbreviations for "ante meridiem" and "post meridiem." They mean
"before noon" and "after noon," respectively. Noon is neither before
or after noon; it is simply noon. Therefore, neither the "a.m." nor
"p.m." designation is correct. On the other hand, midnight is both 12
hours before noon and 12 hours after noon. Therefore, either 12 a.m.
or 12 p.m. could work as a designation for midnight, but both would be
ambiguous as to the date intended.

When a specific date is important, and when we can use a 24-hour
clock, we prefer to designate that moment not as 1200 midnight, but
rather as 0000 if we are referring to the beginning of a given day (or
date), or 2400 if we are designating the end of a given day (or date).

To be certain of avoiding ambiguity (while still using a 12-hour
clock), specify an event as beginning at 1201 a.m. or ending at 1159
p.m., for example; this method is used by the railroads and airlines
for schedules, and is often found on legal papers such as contracts
and insurance policies.

=== I've heard this before.

If one is referring not to a specific date, but rather to
several days, or days in general, use the terms noon and midnight
instead of 12 a.m. and 12 p.m. For example, a bank might be open on
Saturdays from 8 a.m. to noon. Or a grocery store might be open daily
until midnight. The terms "12 noon" and "12 midnight" are also
correct, though redundant.

==== On July 3, I was a at a supermarket that had a temporary sign,
and someone had written "Open July 4, 7AM to 12AM, and then it had a
dark P written over the second A.


Note that this comes from NIST, the National Institute of Standards
and Technology, which is the US federal government agency responsible
for standardizing measurements.

I liked it better when it was the National Bureau of Standards. They
keep changing names and confusing me. (I'm just going to call the INS
"la Migra" so I don't have to worry when it changes names.)

These are the people who operate
NIST-F1, the atomic clock which is the primary reference for timekeeping
in the United States, and one of the primary references worldwide.

I'll tell you how I remmeber this, and how I think it arose. The
moment of noon is neither before noon or after noon, but the
59.999999999...... seconds after that are after noon, and yet still
part of the minute that is 12:00. (and part of the second that is
12:00:00.) So even though all but the tiniest bit of the minute is not
noon, most of 12:00 noon is PM.

- Logan

On Jul 7, 12:42 pm, BobK207 wrote:
On Jul 7, 9:41 am, wrote:



On Jul 7, 3:13 am, mm wrote:

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:55:23 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 6, 8:05 pm, "Noon-Air" wrote:
wrote in message
...

Hire a *competent*, licensed, bonded, insured, professionally trained HVAC
technician, instead of depending on some flunkie handiman that couldn't make
it doing anything else.

What specifically do I ask him tomorrow? (Types of HVAC

Ask him what the problem is, and how long it will take to fix it.

Since he doesn't work for you, he may not tell you, but if you are
nice, and not the least bit snotty, he may well tell you.

Maybe ask him if it's worth repairing or not, although that is not his
decision and he may be much less willing to speculate. OTOH, if he
knows it's a 50 dollar problem, he may be wiling to speculate. But
you have to be even nicer to get answers to hard questions.
(sometimes even when you yourself are paying).

certifications?) He is being sent by the landlord, which I don't pay
for.

I just posted a description of what maintenance didn't do as a reponse
to my original post.

why are you now posting multiple replies?

new to this whole thing,, huh?

When some people read threads they only check back with the specific
line they were on. I posted a short sentence telling them it's there,
instead of posting the whole thing. Sorry that annoys you...

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 09:27:18 -0700, wrote:

On Jul 6, 7:24 pm, wrote:
It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
have a thermometer.)

Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
apartment.

Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
right, or make the landlord replace it if it won't work properly? The
electric bill is outragous.


Maintenance came today. He hooked an electric probe in two places, and
in two minutes he said "it's fine."

I surely wouldn't consider that an adequate test. An adequate test
looks at the results, that is, is the air cold. Unless that is
physcially impossible, like maybe measuring something on a satellite
when one is on the ground, but that is not the case here.

Still, I wonder if there are two places that are specially important.
But I'm not an AC guy.

He hadn't checked the output
temperature. I asked him to do that. (The A/C was off before he came,
as it wasn't working right, so it's only been running for a couple
minutes.) He went back to his van and got a thermometer (laser,
interesting). The output temperature was 70 deg, and the house was 82
deg. I said it should be 20 deg.

Although someone said 20 yesterday, I don't think it is always 20 -- I
think what I've heard here, AHR, is 15 to 20.

"Why do you think it should be 20 deg
different?" he says. I told him that's what I found on the internet.
He checked more wires with his probe for another 5 minutes, then
checked the temperature again. It now said 64 deg (18 deg different).

Now the thing is working! Darn. It's much much harder to fix most
things when they are working right. Even things that only work
intermittently. You pretty much have to catch it when it's not
working to be able to fix many things.

Do you have a thermometer other than the one that is on the
thermostat?

He said it had to run for a while to get to that temp. (Recall, he
just asked why I thought is should be 20 deg.)

He asked because curious-type repairmen are always curious when a
customer says something about a repair, right or wrong.

And of course it does have to run for a while to get to that temp. He
may have thought you had had it running.

The fact is that all repairmen get calls for things that either were
really never broken or start workimg the moment they touch it. Even
when I'm working on my own stuff, that I know is broken, it's not
unusual for it to start to work fine the moment I start to repair it.
Sometimes they never break again, sometimes they do.

I explained the
problem of it not cooling down below 83 deg in 7 hours, and never
having an electric bill like we just had in the year and a half we'd
already been here. He didn't have anything to say, and didn't check
anything else. He never looked at the outside part of the unit. I

It's plainly working outside, but I think he should have looked if it
was dirty. By now he has 18 degrees, which iiuc is pretty good.

I think during hot weather a lot of companies make service calls as
quick as possible, because so many people are calling them. If one
wants a tune-up or a cleaning, he has to call when they aren't so
busy, or pay more in the busy season**. But if the outside is dirty,
you could clean it yourself if the landlord says ok, using a garden
hose with no nozzle, iiuc. The fins are very easy to bend, and bent
fins cut down AC efficiency. This isn't your major problem, though.

**This is why I guess whether you rent or own, you should test your
furnace in September and your AC in April or May, so that if it is
broken, you have time to get it fixed when companies aren't busy. I
don't know what various landlords will say if you say your ac isn't
working in May. Landlords vary.

asked if he had a contractor HVAC license as he was leaving. He said
yes. I said I'd come down with him and write the number down.

For the next time, espeically a more important situation, you have to
have the pencil ready, because if you give someone time to think, they
want to "check with their lawyer". That's why reporters iiuc sometimes
try to surprise the people they interview.

When I
got to his van he said I'm not giving you my contractors number, the
landlord has it. I said I need to keep proper records because the
cooling bill is outragous, and the A/C is not cooling the apartment.
He wouldn't give it to me. I said well then I'll write down your plate

Did you first ask his name, or if he had a business card**? For your
records, all you really need is his name, or the company name on the
truck. He didn't add any freon, so he doesn't have to have a
license, and your legal relationship is with your landlord, not with
the AC company. This part is very important. If he fixes it and does
a bad job, but doesn't cause damage to things you own, you won't be
able to sue him. You're not paying him and you don't have a direct
relationship with him. No privity. (If does damage things you own,
the landlord might be resposnible too, in this case.)

Being a tenant can be both an advantage and a disadvantage in this
situation. It depends how things play out.

**My friend who has a burglar alarm business gives all his installers
business cards, although I'm sure many bosses in many fields don't
bother. He's hoping to get business that way. (He might be thinking
that without a business card, the installer will just give them his
own number and do the work without my friend, but if they have a card
they won't bother.)

number and write the state about it.

That's really going to endear him for the next time he has to come.
He'll be sure to clean up well, and be extra careful to not leave
fingerprints.

And for nothing because as you found later, he doesn't have to give
you his number. Except he may tell your landlord he doesn't like you.
That's not in your interest either.

I absolutely despise the president of my home owners association. She
lies, cheats, and steals votes, and she's a hypocrite or senile. But
I don't tell her any of that that or she will make my life more
difficult. When one of us moves, I'll probably tell her.

(Also, he said the previous problem las month was a broken relay.)

Unfortunately, the law doesn't require him to have a license. I just

From my pov, it's hard to say if it's unfortunate or not. Surely if I
were in your shoes, I'd be happy to be able to get his number. (Even
though I could find his number if I had his name. If the licensing
agency wouldn't look up his number based on his name, they also
wouldn't do anything if they had his number.) But if we look at the
whole picture, we live in a country where laws are becoming more and
more oppressive. I'm flabbergasted that in Virginia, they passed a
law that there can't be smoking even at private clubs. And some place
else they banned the sale at restaurants of food made with transfat.
Requiring that the ingredient be listed on the menu would have been
ok, and probably killed it, but telling people they can't serve a
legal food if people want to buy it is, I hate to say it, the bud of
fascism. That the state has the power to do anything. (Not German
fascism, which includes mass murder. More like maybe Spanish fascism.)

found the following on the net:
G.S. 87-21 (c) To Whom Article Applies. - The provisions of this
Article shall apply to all persons, firms, or corporations who engage
in, or attempt to engage in, the business of plumbing, heating, or
fire sprinkler contracting, or any combination thereof as defined in
this Article. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to those
who make minor repairs or minor replacements to an already installed
system of plumbing or heating, but shall apply to those who make
repairs, replacements, or modifications to an already installed fire
sprinkler system.

This strikes me as reasonable.


BTW, you didn't reply to any particular thing I said last night, but I
hope I convinced you that I wasn't suggesting that anything
underhanded is going on.

wrote:
On Jul 7, 7:29 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

It's been running non-stop since 12:00 PM, it's 7:46PM, and the temp
is still 83 deg, thermostat still at 80 deg. I would not have said
"hours" if it wasn't...

Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post
meridian" = past midday). That would be midnight. From there to
7:46PM means the ac has been on for almost twenty hours.

Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
midday) which would also be midnight.


Sorry, 12:00PM is noon. Have a High School diploma?? Is English your
native language??

Sorry, 12:00PM is not noon.

I do have a high school diploma (and several others including post-graduate
degrees). English IS my native tongue, although I can get along in a few
others, including Pig Latin and Morse Code. And, before you ask, I have been
to parts of South Georgia.

Sorry if I seemed pedantic or persnickety.

On Jul 7, 1:41 pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
wrote:
On Jul 7, 12:41 pm, BobK207 wrote:

On Jul 7, 9:27 am, wrote:

On Jul 6, 7:24 pm, wrote:

It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
have a thermometer.)

Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
apartment.

Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
right, or make the landlord replace it if it won't work properly? The
electric bill is outragous.

Maintenance came today. He hooked an electric probe in two places, and
in two minutes he said "it's fine." He hadn't checked the output
temperature. I asked him to do that. (The A/C was off before he came,
as it wasn't working right, so it's only been running for a couple
minutes.) He went back to his van and got a thermometer (laser,
interesting). The output temperature was 70 deg, and the house was 82
deg. I said it should be 20 deg. "Why do you think it should be 20 deg
different?" he says. I told him that's what I found on the internet.
He checked more wires with his probe for another 5 minutes, then
checked the temperature again. It now said 64 deg (18 deg different).
He said it had to run for a while to get to that temp. (Recall, he
just asked why I thought is should be 20 deg.) I explained the
problem of it not cooling down below 83 deg in 7 hours, and never
having an electric bill like we just had in the year and a half we'd
already been here. He didn't have anything to say, and didn't check
anything else. He never looked at the outside part of the unit. I
asked if he had a contractor HVAC license as he was leaving. He said
yes. I said I'd come down with him and write the number down. When I
got to his van he said I'm not giving you my contractors number, the
landlord has it. I said I need to keep proper records because the
cooling bill is outragous, and the A/C is not cooling the apartment.
He wouldn't give it to me. I said well then I'll write down your plate
number and write the state about it.

(Also, he said the previous problem las month was a broken relay.)

Unfortunately, the law doesn't require him to have a license. I just
found the following on the net:
G.S. 87-21 (c) To Whom Article Applies. - The provisions of this
Article shall apply to all persons, firms, or corporations who engage
in, or attempt to engage in, the business of plumbing, heating, or
fire sprinkler contracting, or any combination thereof as defined in
this Article. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to those
who make minor repairs or minor replacements to an already installed
system of plumbing or heating, but shall apply to those who make
repairs, replacements, or modifications to an already installed fire
sprinkler system.

I can see your attitude & problem solving skills are really moving
that ball forward.

quoting law / code ain't going to get your apt cooled off

must really suck to be you.........hope it's not too hot today for
you

I asked if he had a license as he was leaving. Can you read?

The guy was obviously pretty clueless about A/C.

I'll be writing a detailed letter to the landlord, and the state
licensing board (they may have some input even though he apparently
doesn' have to know what he's doing).

Y'know Carie, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

My curious mind wants to know....Are you married or single?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

Never married. Only do long-term-relationships with one person. Single
for 3 months, after the last relationship of 2 years. Dating casually.
I don't have to approach, but I do because I know what I want. I
typically only date people with IQs above 135 (thats about a 1340 on
the old SAT) - otherwise we wouldn't relate.

mm wrote:

==== On July 3, I was a at a supermarket that had a temporary sign,
and someone had written "Open July 4, 7AM to 12AM, and then it had a
dark P written over the second A.



Panda eats, shoots and leaves.

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 08:30:27 -0500, "Noon-Air"
wrote:


The landlord is required to keep the A/C working properly. Are you
suggesting that underhanded behavior is so common as to be practically
expected?

Only from landlords whos only concern is their profits on the bottom line.
They are not gonna spend a penny they are not forced to.

Even that I would not call underhanded.

adv. In a sly and secret way.
adj. Marked by or done in a deceptive, secret, or sly manner;
dishonest and sneaky. See Synonyms at secret.

Not doing something at all or hiring the cheapest guy is not clever
enough to be sly, and almost no landlord says how much he pays for
repairs.

My landlord finally had both elevators overhauled -- the repair guys
were there for days -- so they never broke again while I was there,
and must have spent a bundle, but he didn't tell us how much even when
he spent a lot.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

wrote:
On Jul 7, 7:29 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

It's been running non-stop since 12:00 PM, it's 7:46PM, and the temp
is still 83 deg, thermostat still at 80 deg. I would not have said
"hours" if it wasn't...

Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post
meridian" = past midday). That would be midnight. From there to
7:46PM means the ac has been on for almost twenty hours.

Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
midday) which would also be midnight.


Sorry, 12:00PM is noon. Have a High School diploma?? Is English your
native language??

Sorry, 12:00PM is not noon.

I do have a high school diploma (and several others including post-graduate
degrees). English IS my native tongue, although I can get along in a few
others, including Pig Latin and Morse Code. And, before you ask, I have been
to parts of South Georgia.

Sorry if I seemed pedantic or persnickety.

Sorry, 12:00 p.m. *is* noon.

Carie
I am not AC person however I am refrigeration Tech. representing OEMs
from many parts of our country. I have read about dozens answers
and I had it enough. In my opinion any central domestic unit
if can't bring temperature down to 72 in let say 3 hours is not worth
having, so you tell you service people fix it or install new one
there is no excuse for something like that. leave unit running for
hours leave unit running overnight bull**** if was me two hours
would be a limit. from reading some info. that unit seems to be
around two ton which it should be enough unless your cool air
is going some place ales, like cracked duct work and your unit is
cooling parking lot or roof.


wrote in message
ups.com...
It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
have a thermometer.)

Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
apartment.

Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
right, or make the landlord replace it if it won't work properly? The
electric bill is outragous.

The unit doesn't show a manufacturing date, and I can't find the model
no. on the manufacturer's website. Here's what the stickers say:
Goodman Manufacturing Co, 1501 Seamist Dr,
Houston, TX 77008
Model No. AW30-05C
Part No. 20203-23
Regrig 22
Design PSIG 150
Heater Amps 208/240V
Motor 1PH 60HZ 3.5 Amps 1/3 HP
Single Circuit 17.3/20.0
Min Circuit Ampicity 26/29
Max Overcurrent Protection 30/30
UL Listed - G0587770080

Also, once the unit works properly, how much more does it cost to keep
the apartment at 76 as opposed to 80 (above conditions)?

Thanks

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 16:54:19 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

mm wrote:

==== On July 3, I was a at a supermarket that had a temporary sign,
and someone had written "Open July 4, 7AM to 12AM, and then it had a
dark P written over the second A.

I think I meant to say a dark A written over the P.


Panda eats, shoots and leaves.

Indeed.

mm wrote:
I'll tell you how I remmeber this, and how I think it arose. The
moment of noon is neither before noon or after noon, but the
59.999999999...... seconds after that are after noon, and yet still
part of the minute that is 12:00. (and part of the second that is
12:00:00.) So even though all but the tiniest bit of the minute is not
noon, most of 12:00 noon is PM.

I'll have to admit that makes a lot of sense. The time exactly one
minute after noon is 12:01PM. If noon has to be called either 12:00PM
or 12:00AM, then out of the two, 12:00PM is the much more logical
choice since it would be wacky for 12:00AM to be followed immediately
by 12:01PM.

However, it is still not very good terminology since (a) the literal
meaning of "12:00AM" is nonsensical and (b) there is already a
perfectly good word ("noon") to describe the concept. On the other
other hand, it is convenient for digital clocks to be able to read
"12:00PM" instead of "noon", which is a good argument for defining
12:00PM to be noon. On the other other other hand, there are various
authorities whose opinions should matter, and they don't seem to all
agree on any one thing.

- Logan

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 17:21:11 -0500, Logan Shaw
wrote:

mm wrote:
I'll tell you how I remmeber this, and how I think it arose. The
moment of noon is neither before noon or after noon, but the
59.999999999...... seconds after that are after noon, and yet still
part of the minute that is 12:00. (and part of the second that is
12:00:00.) So even though all but the tiniest bit of the minute is not
noon, most of 12:00 noon is PM.

I'll have to admit that makes a lot of sense. The time exactly one
minute after noon is 12:01PM. If noon has to be called either 12:00PM
or 12:00AM, then out of the two, 12:00PM is the much more logical
choice since it would be wacky for 12:00AM to be followed immediately
by 12:01PM.

However, it is still not very good terminology since (a) the literal
meaning of "12:00AM" is nonsensical

Yeah, you're right there. I'm very literal myself, and this sort of
thing usually matters a lot to me. I think maybe this time I came at
it already humbled and ready to give in.

But that is what makes it difficult to learn the convention.

and (b) there is already a
perfectly good word ("noon") to describe the concept. On the other
other hand, it is convenient for digital clocks to be able to read
"12:00PM" instead of "noon", which is a good argument for defining
12:00PM to be noon. On the other other other hand, there are various
authorities whose opinions should matter, and they don't seem to all
agree on any one thing.

- Logan

Smitty Two wrote:

Sorry, 12:00 p.m. *is* noon.

Only if you define twelve hours after the sun is at its highest point to be
noon.

wrote:

On Jul 7, 1:41 pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

wrote:

On Jul 7, 12:41 pm, BobK207 wrote:

On Jul 7, 9:27 am, wrote:

On Jul 6, 7:24 pm, wrote:

It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
have a thermometer.)

Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
apartment.

Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
right, or make the landlord replace it if it won't work properly? The
electric bill is outragous.

Maintenance came today. He hooked an electric probe in two places, and
in two minutes he said "it's fine." He hadn't checked the output
temperature. I asked him to do that. (The A/C was off before he came,
as it wasn't working right, so it's only been running for a couple
minutes.) He went back to his van and got a thermometer (laser,
interesting). The output temperature was 70 deg, and the house was 82
deg. I said it should be 20 deg. "Why do you think it should be 20 deg
different?" he says. I told him that's what I found on the internet.
He checked more wires with his probe for another 5 minutes, then
checked the temperature again. It now said 64 deg (18 deg different).
He said it had to run for a while to get to that temp. (Recall, he
just asked why I thought is should be 20 deg.) I explained the
problem of it not cooling down below 83 deg in 7 hours, and never
having an electric bill like we just had in the year and a half we'd
already been here. He didn't have anything to say, and didn't check
anything else. He never looked at the outside part of the unit. I
asked if he had a contractor HVAC license as he was leaving. He said
yes. I said I'd come down with him and write the number down. When I
got to his van he said I'm not giving you my contractors number, the
landlord has it. I said I need to keep proper records because the
cooling bill is outragous, and the A/C is not cooling the apartment.
He wouldn't give it to me. I said well then I'll write down your plate
number and write the state about it.

(Also, he said the previous problem las month was a broken relay.)

Unfortunately, the law doesn't require him to have a license. I just
found the following on the net:
G.S. 87-21 (c) To Whom Article Applies. - The provisions of this
Article shall apply to all persons, firms, or corporations who engage
in, or attempt to engage in, the business of plumbing, heating, or
fire sprinkler contracting, or any combination thereof as defined in
this Article. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to those
who make minor repairs or minor replacements to an already installed
system of plumbing or heating, but shall apply to those who make
repairs, replacements, or modifications to an already installed fire
sprinkler system.

I can see your attitude & problem solving skills are really moving
that ball forward.

quoting law / code ain't going to get your apt cooled off

must really suck to be you.........hope it's not too hot today for
you

I asked if he had a license as he was leaving. Can you read?

The guy was obviously pretty clueless about A/C.

I'll be writing a detailed letter to the landlord, and the state
licensing board (they may have some input even though he apparently
doesn' have to know what he's doing).

Y'know Carie, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

My curious mind wants to know....Are you married or single?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.


Never married. Only do long-term-relationships with one person. Single
for 3 months, after the last relationship of 2 years. Dating casually.
I don't have to approach, but I do because I know what I want. I
typically only date people with IQs above 135 (thats about a 1340 on
the old SAT) - otherwise we wouldn't relate.



Ever considered joining Mensa?

I was invited to join about 45 years ago, but in the words of Groucho
Marx, "I would never want to belong to any club that would have someone
like me for a member." G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

On Jul 7, 5:42 pm, mm wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 09:27:18 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 6, 7:24 pm, wrote:
....
It's plainly working outside, but I think he should have looked if it
was dirty. By now he has 18 degrees, which iiuc is pretty good.


The maintenance guy didn't fix anything... I watched him the whole
time. It is as it was.