kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.

Guess again..... overcharge on a piston system will do the same thing.

???

A piston system with a gross overcharge will freeze from the compressor back
to the evap, whereas if its running real low on refrigerant, or there is no
airflow, it will freeze from the evap to the compressor. It doesn't matter
if its A/C or a heat pump, it works the same.

You absolutely right with one difference that some people
can do more in half the hour then some in half month
and some people have college degree only to qualify to clean toilet
Tony

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..
You really need to get some training and/or experience before you go
spouting off a bunch of BS

"Tony" wrote in message
news:iDNki.22391$z64.15349@trnddc07...
Carie?
#1 I have posted before from what I read in posting?
If you apartment Is 1500 Sq. feet, tomb rule "you need 3 ton".

There is no such thing as "rule of thumb". 1500 sqft could *NEED* as
little as 1 1/2 ton, or as much as 4 ton(or more). Unless you do the
calculations, your doing nothing but guessing.

#2 If you AC unit is drawing only around 15 amps at full load
your unit is only 1,1/2 ton "not big enough".

Ummmm......no. I have a customer with a 4 ton heat pump compressor that
only draws 13.1 amps(measured), and less than 15 amps total(measured).

#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.

Guess again..... overcharge on a piston system will do the same thing.

#4 If you unit is heat pump and it has booster heaters for
winter see that are not ON at same time while is cooling.

Not a normal scenerio unless a new thermostat was installed by somebody
that doesn't have a clue, or a sequencer went bad

#5 If your unit have high back pressure and low discharge
pressure it is good possibility that compressor is going bad.

Not necessarily, there could be a lot of other issues that will exhibit
simular symptoms

#6 If unit is heat pump you definitely need to check
operating pressures looking at unit would not help.

Same as *ANY* other heating/cooling system. If you don't take quantitative
measurements, your only guessing.

#7 If it is heat pump mechanic must check switching or
diverting solenoid's which make change from winter to
summer condition.

Not applicable with this problem

#8 Last but not least source power and that compressor
is running continuously and not shutting down intermittently

That would cause all kinds of other problems.

I believe you have stated that at one time was working ok
Then check # 3,4,5,6,7&8
Tony
www.cas-environ.com



wrote in message
ups.com...
It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
have a thermometer.)

Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
apartment.

Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
right, or make the landlord replace it if it won't work properly? The
electric bill is outragous.

The unit doesn't show a manufacturing date, and I can't find the model
no. on the manufacturer's website. Here's what the stickers say:
Goodman Manufacturing Co, 1501 Seamist Dr,
Houston, TX 77008
Model No. AW30-05C
Part No. 20203-23
Regrig 22
Design PSIG 150
Heater Amps 208/240V
Motor 1PH 60HZ 3.5 Amps 1/3 HP
Single Circuit 17.3/20.0
Min Circuit Ampicity 26/29
Max Overcurrent Protection 30/30
UL Listed - G0587770080

Also, once the unit works properly, how much more does it cost to keep
the apartment at 76 as opposed to 80 (above conditions)?

Thanks

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.

Guess again..... overcharge on a piston system will do the same thing.

???

Condenser freezing because of overcharge that would be some
a MAGICAL system. So I tout I seen everything I guess not.
Tony

KJPRO the only qualification you have
kiddy garden and that would be to advance for you
I am suggesting more like day care.
son grow up.
Tony


kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...
Oh my... you did it again. Since you're a refrigeration tech, why don't
you
keep your mouth shut when it comes to residential air conditioning
systems??

Replies follow...


"Tony" wrote in message
news:iDNki.22391$z64.15349@trnddc07...
Carie?
#1 I have posted before from what I read in posting?
If you apartment Is 1500 Sq. feet, tomb rule "you need 3 ton".


She has a 800 sq ft apartment. I know it's hard for you to know this as
it's
in her FIRST post!!
She also has a Goodman 2 ton unit, as this is in her SECOND post!!


#2 If you AC unit is drawing only around 15 amps at full load
your unit is only 1,1/2 ton "not big enough".


Then how can Goodman get by with the following information for a 2-ton
unit??

"Compressor RLA 11.5"


#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.


Nothing has been said about the unit freezing. Nothing has been said about
a
heat pump. Even though, by the model number it is a heat pump. But the
fact
remains that it doesn't even have to bee a heat pump for freezing
conditions
to show up!!


#4 If you unit is heat pump and it has booster heaters for
winter see that are not ON at same time while is cooling.


Wow, now there's an original thought. rolleyes
Why don't you check the model number? It is a heat pump!


#5 If your unit have high back pressure and low discharge
pressure it is good possibility that compressor is going bad.


Have you saw anything posted on the operating pressures??


#6 If unit is heat pump you definitely need to check
operating pressures looking at unit would not help.


Once again, model number says it's a HP!
But even if it wasn't a HP, we would still need the operating pressures
and
temperatures!!


#7 If it is heat pump mechanic must check switching or
diverting solenoid's which make change from winter to
summer condition.


Once again, it's a HP.


#8 Last but not least source power and that compressor
is running continuously and not shutting down intermittently


Brillant, just brillant!!


I believe you have stated that at one time was working ok
Then check # 3,4,5,6,7&8
Tony
www.cas-environ.com


I believe that you need training in the HVAC field, if you want to
actually
post helpful information!

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...

Never saw a volt meter that was capable of measuring line pressures for
calculating superheat and subcooling. VBG

Looked very odd to me, and I don't know anything about fixing A/Cs.


The tech needs to hook up gauges to the outdoor unit. He also needs to
take
temperature reading on both of the outdoor lines. They need to diagnose
what
is actually going on with this unit. Without the proper data, everything
is
a guess. Which is why NOBODY here can tell you what's wrong with your
unit.

When you get the following information, one can help you.

Suction Pressure
Head Pressure
Suction Line Temp
Liquid Line Temp
Ambient Temp
Condenser Temp
Indoor Return Temp
Indoor Supply Temp
Indoor WetBulb Temp
Compressor Amps
Rated Compressor Amps 11.5


(And make sure the electric elements are not ON!)


Kjpro is going to fix it for you he only posted
what I did 7/8 @ 4:14pm
Tony

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:10:59 GMT, "Tony" wrote:


kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
.. .

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.

Guess again..... overcharge on a piston system will do the same thing.

???

Condenser freezing because of overcharge that would be some
a MAGICAL system. So I tout I seen everything I guess not.
Tony

At that point its a evaporator. Dont think of HP components as
condenser and evaporator. Think of them as indoor and outdoor units.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:17:31 GMT, "Tony" wrote:

KJPRO the only qualification you have
kiddy garden and that would be to advance for you
I am suggesting more like day care.
son grow up.
Tony

You have to admit you missed alot of info and your comments didnt
match the known facts..

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
.. .
Oh my... you did it again. Since you're a refrigeration tech, why don't
you
keep your mouth shut when it comes to residential air conditioning
systems??

Replies follow...


"Tony" wrote in message
news:iDNki.22391$z64.15349@trnddc07...
Carie?
#1 I have posted before from what I read in posting?
If you apartment Is 1500 Sq. feet, tomb rule "you need 3 ton".


She has a 800 sq ft apartment. I know it's hard for you to know this as
it's
in her FIRST post!!
She also has a Goodman 2 ton unit, as this is in her SECOND post!!


#2 If you AC unit is drawing only around 15 amps at full load
your unit is only 1,1/2 ton "not big enough".


Then how can Goodman get by with the following information for a 2-ton
unit??

"Compressor RLA 11.5"


#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.


Nothing has been said about the unit freezing. Nothing has been said about
a
heat pump. Even though, by the model number it is a heat pump. But the
fact
remains that it doesn't even have to bee a heat pump for freezing
conditions
to show up!!


#4 If you unit is heat pump and it has booster heaters for
winter see that are not ON at same time while is cooling.


Wow, now there's an original thought. rolleyes
Why don't you check the model number? It is a heat pump!


#5 If your unit have high back pressure and low discharge
pressure it is good possibility that compressor is going bad.


Have you saw anything posted on the operating pressures??


#6 If unit is heat pump you definitely need to check
operating pressures looking at unit would not help.


Once again, model number says it's a HP!
But even if it wasn't a HP, we would still need the operating pressures
and
temperatures!!


#7 If it is heat pump mechanic must check switching or
diverting solenoid's which make change from winter to
summer condition.


Once again, it's a HP.


#8 Last but not least source power and that compressor
is running continuously and not shutting down intermittently


Brillant, just brillant!!


I believe you have stated that at one time was working ok
Then check # 3,4,5,6,7&8
Tony
www.cas-environ.com


I believe that you need training in the HVAC field, if you want to
actually
post helpful information!

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:18:02 -0500, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:


"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...

remember no references to actual post content.

I can at least read the thread and know the difference between AM/PM. I
also
know it takes HOURS of run time to get a $320 electric bill.

You don't!!!!!!!

Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully enough....I merely
suggested she use noon & midnight instead of 12pm & 12am to avoid
confusion


Yeah, like it's so confusing. rolleyes

Some people get confused easy so consider the source.

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:24:10 -0700, wrote:

A two hundred a fifty cross posted thread about a ****ing **** who
cant tell time, her broken a/c, and her maintenance man. Too funny!

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"Tekkie®" wrote in message
. ..
Logan Shaw wrote:
wrote:
I've been here for over a year and a half, and never had an electric
bill like that, the A/C has never ran continously like it is, and I
never had any problems getting the temp down to 76 deg.
Prior to that, I did not know that this was not your first summer in
this apartment. Faced with that new information, I would say your
air conditioner is in fact broken.

- Logan
Simply BRILLIANT!! Wow!


LOL

There's some bright ones here, Tekkie! :-)


Like the saying: We don't have ALL the assholes; but we have a very
large percentage...

"Tony" wrote in message
news:LHSki.3283$Y_3.2444@trnddc04...
KJPRO the only qualification you have
kiddy garden and that would be to advance for you
I am suggesting more like day care.
son grow up.
Tony


Facts hurt you , Eh?

Sorry...

BobK207 wrote:
On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...

remember no references to actual post content.
I can at least read the thread and know the difference between AM/PM. I also
know it takes HOURS of run time to get a $320 electric bill.

You don't!!!!!!!

Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully enough....I merely
suggested she use noon & midnight instead of 12pm & 12am to avoid
confusion

I certainly do know how many operating hours it takes to generate a
$320 month's electric bill...

you know.......... tons, btu/hr, kilowatt-hrs, efficiency ........
all that REALLY complicated technical stuff that ONLY big bad HVAC
techs know....

It's only HVAC, it ain't rocket science.....don't kid yourself that's
its harder than it is.


Hey fundie idjit then why don't YOU fix it. It's about time you put up
or shut up, morning, noon or night.

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.

Guess again..... overcharge on a piston system will do the same thing.

???

A piston system with a gross overcharge will freeze from the compressor
back
to the evap, whereas if its running real low on refrigerant, or there is
no
airflow, it will freeze from the evap to the compressor. It doesn't matter
if its A/C or a heat pump, it works the same.


What??

I have never come across this and have a hard time imagining it. Normally if
they're grossly overcharged, they'll be slugging the compressor with liquid
refrigerant. That normally happens after a (so-called) service tech charges
the unit with too much refrigerant. Then the unit starts making a noise, so
they condemn the system.

You get the call and find that the unit is overcharged. Recover the
refrigerant and fix the actually problem and then the system normally
operates just fine.

So the question is, how can a system be overcharged, yet it freezes??

"ftwhd" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:10:59 GMT, "Tony" wrote:


kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
.. .

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.

Guess again..... overcharge on a piston system will do the same thing.

???

Condenser freezing because of overcharge that would be some
a MAGICAL system. So I tout I seen everything I guess not.
Tony

At that point its a evaporator. Dont think of HP components as
condenser and evaporator. Think of them as indoor and outdoor units.


Noon stated that this can happen on a straight A/C... ???

"ftwhd" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:24:10 -0700, wrote:

A two hundred a fifty cross posted thread about a ****ing **** who
cant tell time, her broken a/c, and her maintenance man. Too funny!

That's just sad...


(was thinking same thing though)

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"ftwhd" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:10:59 GMT, "Tony" wrote:


kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
.. .

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.

Guess again..... overcharge on a piston system will do the same
thing.

???

Condenser freezing because of overcharge that would be some
a MAGICAL system. So I tout I seen everything I guess not.
Tony

At that point its a evaporator. Dont think of HP components as
condenser and evaporator. Think of them as indoor and outdoor units.


Noon stated that this can happen on a straight A/C... ???

Yup.... and when you pull the extra pounds of refrigerant out of the system,
it works a lot better

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.

Guess again..... overcharge on a piston system will do the same thing.

???

A piston system with a gross overcharge will freeze from the compressor
back
to the evap, whereas if its running real low on refrigerant, or there is
no
airflow, it will freeze from the evap to the compressor. It doesn't
matter
if its A/C or a heat pump, it works the same.


What??

I have never come across this and have a hard time imagining it. Normally
if
they're grossly overcharged, they'll be slugging the compressor with
liquid
refrigerant. That normally happens after a (so-called) service tech
charges
the unit with too much refrigerant. Then the unit starts making a noise,
so
they condemn the system.

You get the call and find that the unit is overcharged. Recover the
refrigerant and fix the actually problem and then the system normally
operates just fine.

So the question is, how can a system be overcharged, yet it freezes??

I have not seen this on a TXV system, only fixed oriface/piston systems
(10SEER)....
Remember what I told you about putting the temp clamp on the suction as a
"quick and dirty" method of indicating under/over charged systems??
Think about the ST with an undercharged system....superheat is very high(ST
75 - 85 degrees), overcharged system will be very low ...........ST below 50
and the lower the temp, the greater the overcharge. If a system is running
with a 30 degree ST, you can figure a minimum of 2 - 3 pounds of overcharge
on most resi systems.
Also remember that I told you that the gauges are the very last thing you
put to the system, after everything else is clean and right.

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.

Guess again..... overcharge on a piston system will do the same
thing.

???

A piston system with a gross overcharge will freeze from the compressor
back
to the evap, whereas if its running real low on refrigerant, or there
is
no
airflow, it will freeze from the evap to the compressor. It doesn't
matter
if its A/C or a heat pump, it works the same.


What??

I have never come across this and have a hard time imagining it.
Normally
if
they're grossly overcharged, they'll be slugging the compressor with
liquid
refrigerant. That normally happens after a (so-called) service tech
charges
the unit with too much refrigerant. Then the unit starts making a noise,
so
they condemn the system.

You get the call and find that the unit is overcharged. Recover the
refrigerant and fix the actually problem and then the system normally
operates just fine.

So the question is, how can a system be overcharged, yet it freezes??

I have not seen this on a TXV system, only fixed oriface/piston systems
(10SEER)....
Remember what I told you about putting the temp clamp on the suction as a
"quick and dirty" method of indicating under/over charged systems??
Think about the ST with an undercharged system....superheat is very
high(ST
75 - 85 degrees), overcharged system will be very low ...........ST below
50
and the lower the temp, the greater the overcharge. If a system is running
with a 30 degree ST, you can figure a minimum of 2 - 3 pounds of
overcharge
on most resi systems.
Also remember that I told you that the gauges are the very last thing you
put to the system, after everything else is clean and right.


Not so fast Scooby Doo...

The overcharged system (if everything else is operating ok) is going to have
a higher suction pressure (on an orifice metering system). On a normal
system you're going to have a 70+ suction pressure (which is 41 degrees F
with R-22). If the system is overcharged, the suction pressure goes up 70+
(which is 41+ F with R-22). Since you can't have a negative superheat, your
suction temp is going to be 41+ F.

In order for your suction temp to be under 32 degrees F, the suction
pressure has to be 58 PSI or under. That's not going to happen with a system
that is overcharged, unless it has other problems.

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"ftwhd" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:10:59 GMT, "Tony" wrote:


kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
.. .

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.

Guess again..... overcharge on a piston system will do the same
thing.

???

Condenser freezing because of overcharge that would be some
a MAGICAL system. So I tout I seen everything I guess not.
Tony

At that point its a evaporator. Dont think of HP components as
condenser and evaporator. Think of them as indoor and outdoor units.


Noon stated that this can happen on a straight A/C... ???

Yup.... and when you pull the extra pounds of refrigerant out of the
system,
it works a lot better


I agree that the system will operate better with a balanced charge. But I
don't agree with your idea that an overcharged system can freeze up, unless
it has other issues.

Please see my previous post on the explanation as to why it can't.

On Jul 10, 5:18 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

remember no references to actual post content.

I can at least read the thread and know the difference between AM/PM. I
also
know it takes HOURS of run time to get a $320 electric bill.

You don't!!!!!!!

Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully enough....I merely
suggested she use noon & midnight instead of 12pm & 12am to avoid
confusion

Yeah, like it's so confusing. rolleyes

Well, if its so universally clear why are several people arguing about
it?

Pretty hard to argue over the meaning of noon & midnight; my initial
point

btw no comment about your mis-reading of my posts?

I guess not, it must hard to admit you're wrong when you are so often.

please do try to read more carefully, it might make it easier for you
to reply with something that makes sense

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 10, 5:18 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

remember no references to actual post content.

I can at least read the thread and know the difference between
AM/PM. I
also
know it takes HOURS of run time to get a $320 electric bill.

You don't!!!!!!!

Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully enough....I merely
suggested she use noon & midnight instead of 12pm & 12am to avoid
confusion

Yeah, like it's so confusing. rolleyes

Well, if its so universally clear why are several people arguing about
it?

Pretty hard to argue over the meaning of noon & midnight; my initial
point


Pretty hard to argue over a $320 electric bill.

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.

Guess again..... overcharge on a piston system will do the same
thing.

???

A piston system with a gross overcharge will freeze from the
compressor
back
to the evap, whereas if its running real low on refrigerant, or there
is
no
airflow, it will freeze from the evap to the compressor. It doesn't
matter
if its A/C or a heat pump, it works the same.


What??

I have never come across this and have a hard time imagining it.
Normally
if
they're grossly overcharged, they'll be slugging the compressor with
liquid
refrigerant. That normally happens after a (so-called) service tech
charges
the unit with too much refrigerant. Then the unit starts making a
noise,
so
they condemn the system.

You get the call and find that the unit is overcharged. Recover the
refrigerant and fix the actually problem and then the system normally
operates just fine.

So the question is, how can a system be overcharged, yet it freezes??

I have not seen this on a TXV system, only fixed oriface/piston systems
(10SEER)....
Remember what I told you about putting the temp clamp on the suction as a
"quick and dirty" method of indicating under/over charged systems??
Think about the ST with an undercharged system....superheat is very
high(ST
75 - 85 degrees), overcharged system will be very low ...........ST below
50
and the lower the temp, the greater the overcharge. If a system is
running
with a 30 degree ST, you can figure a minimum of 2 - 3 pounds of
overcharge
on most resi systems.
Also remember that I told you that the gauges are the very last thing you
put to the system, after everything else is clean and right.


Not so fast Scooby Doo...

The overcharged system (if everything else is operating ok) is going to
have
a higher suction pressure (on an orifice metering system). On a normal
system you're going to have a 70+ suction pressure (which is 41 degrees F
with R-22). If the system is overcharged, the suction pressure goes up 70+
(which is 41+ F with R-22). Since you can't have a negative superheat,
your
suction temp is going to be 41+ F.

A normal R22 system will have a "normal" suction pressure of 60 -
70psi.....most of the scroll systems are closer to 60psi. also remember that
when you have overcharge, and the temp drops on the suction line, the
pressure is going to drop also. What your talking about is only a slight
overcharge. With a gross overcharge, you have no superheat, and your ST is
going to be around 32 degrees or lower, and the entire compressor is going
to be sweating. I see a lot of that here.... "Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob" comes along
and says "Its no cooling, let me throw in a couple of pounds of that
freezone stuff"..... occasionally they will call him back 2 or 3 times, and
the only problem was the evap coil was dirty.


In order for your suction temp to be under 32 degrees F, the suction
pressure has to be 58 PSI or under. That's not going to happen with a
system
that is overcharged, unless it has other problems.

Try this... take a 10 SEER system, and dump in an extra 2 or 3 pounds of
refrigerant then take a set of readings, then get back to me.

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Noon-Air" wrote in message
. ..

#3 If you unit is freezing out side as some one posted?
you have heat pump and it is working in reveres.

Guess again..... overcharge on a piston system will do the same
thing.

???

A piston system with a gross overcharge will freeze from the
compressor
back
to the evap, whereas if its running real low on refrigerant, or
there
is
no
airflow, it will freeze from the evap to the compressor. It doesn't
matter
if its A/C or a heat pump, it works the same.


What??

I have never come across this and have a hard time imagining it.
Normally
if
they're grossly overcharged, they'll be slugging the compressor with
liquid
refrigerant. That normally happens after a (so-called) service tech
charges
the unit with too much refrigerant. Then the unit starts making a
noise,
so
they condemn the system.

You get the call and find that the unit is overcharged. Recover the
refrigerant and fix the actually problem and then the system normally
operates just fine.

So the question is, how can a system be overcharged, yet it freezes??

I have not seen this on a TXV system, only fixed oriface/piston systems
(10SEER)....
Remember what I told you about putting the temp clamp on the suction as
a
"quick and dirty" method of indicating under/over charged systems??
Think about the ST with an undercharged system....superheat is very
high(ST
75 - 85 degrees), overcharged system will be very low ...........ST
below
50
and the lower the temp, the greater the overcharge. If a system is
running
with a 30 degree ST, you can figure a minimum of 2 - 3 pounds of
overcharge
on most resi systems.
Also remember that I told you that the gauges are the very last thing
you
put to the system, after everything else is clean and right.


Not so fast Scooby Doo...

The overcharged system (if everything else is operating ok) is going to
have
a higher suction pressure (on an orifice metering system). On a normal
system you're going to have a 70+ suction pressure (which is 41 degrees
F
with R-22). If the system is overcharged, the suction pressure goes up
70+
(which is 41+ F with R-22). Since you can't have a negative superheat,
your
suction temp is going to be 41+ F.

A normal R22 system will have a "normal" suction pressure of 60 -
70psi.....most of the scroll systems are closer to 60psi. also remember
that
when you have overcharge, and the temp drops on the suction line, the
pressure is going to drop also. What your talking about is only a slight
overcharge. With a gross overcharge, you have no superheat, and your ST is
going to be around 32 degrees or lower, and the entire compressor is going
to be sweating. I see a lot of that here.... "Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob" comes
along
and says "Its no cooling, let me throw in a couple of pounds of that
freezone stuff"..... occasionally they will call him back 2 or 3 times,
and
the only problem was the evap coil was dirty.


Dirty evaporator... that's the OTHER problem, the overcharge wasn't the
cause of the freeze up.


In order for your suction temp to be under 32 degrees F, the suction
pressure has to be 58 PSI or under. That's not going to happen with a
system
that is overcharged, unless it has other problems.

Try this... take a 10 SEER system, and dump in an extra 2 or 3 pounds of
refrigerant then take a set of readings, then get back to me.


Grossly overcharged... is 5-12 pounds enough? I have recovered that much
from a system to make it right! :-)
These systems all had noisy compressor's due to slugging.

Had one the other day... 2-3 pounds extra... compressor was slugging.

Sorry, I just can't see an overcharged air conditioner freezing.

On Jul 10, 11:50 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Jul 10, 5:18 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

remember no references to actual post content.

I can at least read the thread and know the difference between
AM/PM. I
also
know it takes HOURS of run time to get a $320 electric bill.

You don't!!!!!!!

Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully enough....I merely
suggested she use noon & midnight instead of 12pm & 12am to avoid
confusion

Yeah, like it's so confusing. rolleyes

Well, if its so universally clear why are several people arguing about
it?

Pretty hard to argue over the meaning of noon & midnight; my initial
point
o
Pretty hard targue over a $320 electric bill.

That's why I never did argue about that "$320 electric bill"

I merely suggested the use of noon & midnight over 12PM &
12AM......the OP & others chose to argue about meaning of 12AM & 12PM.

Pretty much a waste of time & un-necessary if noon & midnight are
used.

"BobK207" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 10, 11:50 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Jul 10, 5:18 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

remember no references to actual post content.

I can at least read the thread and know the difference between
AM/PM. I
also
know it takes HOURS of run time to get a $320 electric bill.

You don't!!!!!!!

Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully enough....I merely
suggested she use noon & midnight instead of 12pm & 12am to avoid
confusion

Yeah, like it's so confusing. rolleyes

Well, if its so universally clear why are several people arguing about
it?

Pretty hard to argue over the meaning of noon & midnight; my initial
point
o
Pretty hard targue over a $320 electric bill.

That's why I never did argue about that "$320 electric bill"

I merely suggested the use of noon & midnight over 12PM &
12AM......the OP & others chose to argue about meaning of 12AM & 12PM.

Pretty much a waste of time & un-necessary if noon & midnight are
used.

And your pretty much a waste of my time

Welcome to my killfile

"BobK207" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 10, 11:50 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Jul 10, 5:18 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

remember no references to actual post content.

I can at least read the thread and know the difference between
AM/PM. I
also
know it takes HOURS of run time to get a $320 electric bill.

You don't!!!!!!!

Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully enough....I merely
suggested she use noon & midnight instead of 12pm & 12am to avoid
confusion

Yeah, like it's so confusing. rolleyes

Well, if its so universally clear why are several people arguing about
it?

Pretty hard to argue over the meaning of noon & midnight; my initial
point
o
Pretty hard targue over a $320 electric bill.

That's why I never did argue about that "$320 electric bill"

I merely suggested the use of noon & midnight over 12PM &
12AM......the OP & others chose to argue about meaning of 12AM & 12PM.

Pretty much a waste of time & un-necessary if noon & midnight are
used.


Sorry that you're confused with the facts..

If someone can't comprehend this ladies post, they sure as hell can't help
her!

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 06:26:46 -0000, BobK207
wrote:

On Jul 10, 5:18 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

remember no references to actual post content.

I can at least read the thread and know the difference between AM/PM. I
also
know it takes HOURS of run time to get a $320 electric bill.

You don't!!!!!!!

Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully enough....I merely
suggested she use noon & midnight instead of 12pm & 12am to avoid
confusion

Yeah, like it's so confusing. rolleyes

Well, if its so universally clear why are several people arguing about
it?

Because this is USENET and thats what most morons do here.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:56:09 -0700, "Joseph"
wrote:


"ftwhd" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:24:10 -0700, wrote:

A two hundred a fifty cross posted thread about a ****ing **** who
cant tell time, her broken a/c, and her maintenance man. Too funny!

That's just sad...


(was thinking same thing though)




Youre not allowed to think like me. Sorry but youll have to be your
own man for once.

"ftwhd" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:56:09 -0700, "Joseph"
wrote:


"ftwhd" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:24:10 -0700, wrote:

A two hundred a fifty cross posted thread about a ****ing **** who
cant tell time, her broken a/c, and her maintenance man. Too funny!

That's just sad...


(was thinking same thing though)




Youre not allowed to think like me. Sorry but youll have to be your
own man for once.

Thinking the same thing and thinking like "YOU" is not the same. God strike me dead in my tracks right now, if I
start to think like a low life troll...

For god's sake don't let this thread die...

"Joseph" wrote in message
...

"ftwhd" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:56:09 -0700, "Joseph"
wrote:


"ftwhd" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:24:10 -0700, wrote:

A two hundred a fifty cross posted thread about a ****ing **** who
cant tell time, her broken a/c, and her maintenance man. Too funny!

That's just sad...


(was thinking same thing though)




Youre not allowed to think like me. Sorry but youll have to be your
own man for once.

Thinking the same thing and thinking like "YOU" is not the same. God
strike me dead in my tracks right now, if I
start to think like a low life troll...

For god's sake don't let this thread die...


Now the ****s going to hit the fan...

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:52:21 -0700, "Joseph"
wrote:


"ftwhd" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:56:09 -0700, "Joseph"
wrote:


"ftwhd" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:24:10 -0700, wrote:

A two hundred a fifty cross posted thread about a ****ing **** who
cant tell time, her broken a/c, and her maintenance man. Too funny!

That's just sad...


(was thinking same thing though)




Youre not allowed to think like me. Sorry but youll have to be your
own man for once.

Thinking the same thing and thinking like "YOU" is not the same. God strike me dead in my tracks right now, if I
start to think like a low life troll...

I was thinking the same thing...

For god's sake don't let this thread die...

Dont you have the capibility of kill filing the thread?

"ftwhd" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:52:21 -0700, "Joseph"
wrote:


"ftwhd" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:56:09 -0700, "Joseph"
wrote:


"ftwhd" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:24:10 -0700, wrote:

A two hundred a fifty cross posted thread about a ****ing **** who
cant tell time, her broken a/c, and her maintenance man. Too funny!

That's just sad...


(was thinking same thing though)




Youre not allowed to think like me. Sorry but youll have to be your
own man for once.

Thinking the same thing and thinking like "YOU" is not the same.
God strike me dead in my tracks right now, if I
start to think like a low life troll...

I was thinking the same thing...

For god's sake don't let this thread die...

Dont you have the capibility of kill filing the thread?


No can't do that... it's turned into a technical thread on overcharged
systems freezing.

On Jul 11, 8:49 am, "Noon-Air" wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Jul 10, 11:50 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

groups.com...

On Jul 10, 5:18 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

remember no references to actual post content.

I can at least read the thread and know the difference between
AM/PM. I
also
know it takes HOURS of run time to get a $320 electric bill.

You don't!!!!!!!

Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully enough....I merely
suggested she use noon & midnight instead of 12pm & 12am to avoid
confusion

Yeah, like it's so confusing. rolleyes

Well, if its so universally clear why are several people arguing about
it?

Pretty hard to argue over the meaning of noon & midnight; my initial
point
o
Pretty hard targue over a $320 electric bill.

That's why I never did argue about that "$320 electric bill"

I merely suggested the use of noon & midnight over 12PM &
12AM......the OP & others chose to argue about meaning of 12AM & 12PM.

Pretty much a waste of time & un-necessary if noon & midnight are
used.

And your pretty much a waste of my time

Welcome to my killfile

Oh no! Not the ultimate insult! You've kill filed me...my feelings
are SO hurt.

On Jul 11, 9:08 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Jul 10, 11:50 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Jul 10, 5:18 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

remember no references to actual post content.

I can at least read the thread and know the difference between
AM/PM. I
also
know it takes HOURS of run time to get a $320 electric bill.

You don't!!!!!!!

Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully enough....I merely
suggested she use noon & midnight instead of 12pm & 12am to avoid
confusion

Yeah, like it's so confusing. rolleyes

Well, if its so universally clear why are several people arguing about
it?

Pretty hard to argue over the meaning of noon & midnight; my initial
point
o
Pretty hard targue over a $320 electric bill.

That's why I never did argue about that "$320 electric bill"

I merely suggested the use of noon & midnight over 12PM &
12AM......the OP & others chose to argue about meaning of 12AM & 12PM.

Pretty much a waste of time & un-necessary if noon & midnight are
used.

Sorry that you're confused with the facts..

If someone can't comprehend this ladies post, they sure as hell can't help
her!

Actually I'm not confused with the facts but your replies often do
confuse me because they just don't follow.........

that would be lady's not ladies ....got the moot vs mute thing down
yet? checkout dictionary.com


If someone can't comprehend this ladies post, they sure as hell can't help her!

and you helped her .....exactly how? did you insults to her count as
a/c help?

On Jul 11, 8:49 am, "Noon-Air" wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Jul 10, 11:50 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

groups.com...

On Jul 10, 5:18 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

remember no references to actual post content.

I can at least read the thread and know the difference between
AM/PM. I
also
know it takes HOURS of run time to get a $320 electric bill.

You don't!!!!!!!

Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully enough....I merely
suggested she use noon & midnight instead of 12pm & 12am to avoid
confusion

Yeah, like it's so confusing. rolleyes

Well, if its so universally clear why are several people arguing about
it?

Pretty hard to argue over the meaning of noon & midnight; my initial
point
o
Pretty hard targue over a $320 electric bill.

That's why I never did argue about that "$320 electric bill"

I merely suggested the use of noon & midnight over 12PM &
12AM......the OP & others chose to argue about meaning of 12AM & 12PM.

Pretty much a waste of time & un-necessary if noon & midnight are
used.

And your pretty much a waste of my time

Welcome to my killfile

Oh no! Not the ultimate insult! You've kill filed me...my feelings
are SO hurt.

On Jul 10, 7:17 pm, ftwhd wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:24:10 -0700, wrote:

A two hundred a fifty cross posted thread about a ****ing **** who
cant tell time, her broken a/c, and her maintenance man. Too funny!

There are (currently) 127 messages on 5 different groups (not
crossposted) regarding the subject "Do you think 12:00pm is noon or
midnight?"

wrote in message
ps.com...
On Jul 10, 7:17 pm, ftwhd wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:24:10 -0700, wrote:

A two hundred a fifty cross posted thread about a ****ing **** who
cant tell time, her broken a/c, and her maintenance man. Too funny!

There are (currently) 127 messages on 5 different groups (not
crossposted) regarding the subject "Do you think 12:00pm is noon or
midnight?"

In reality there IS no 12 o'clock. It's 0 o'clock!

11:59:59am... 00:00:00pm... 00:00:01pm... 11:59:59pm... 00:00:00am...
00:00:01am

Why should 12 come before 1 in any instance?

Just think. There's one person, on one computer, who isn't seeing
your posts. Isn't that terrifying?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"BobK207" wrote in message
ps.com...
: On Jul 11, 8:49 am, "Noon-Air" wrote:
:
: And your pretty much a waste of my time
:
: Welcome to my killfile
:
: Oh no! Not the ultimate insult! You've kill filed me...my
feelings
: are SO hurt.
:

On Jul 12, 6:48 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Just think. There's one person, on one computer, who isn't seeing
your posts. Isn't that terrifying?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

"BobK207" wrote in message

ps.com...
: On Jul 11, 8:49 am, "Noon-Air" wrote:
:
: And your pretty much a waste of my time
:
: Welcome to my killfile
:
: Oh no! Not the ultimate insult! You've kill filed me...my
feelings
: are SO hurt.
:

Chris-

Actually, its great. Now he won't be posting nonsense replies.

I see the kill file threat (or actual use) as the refuge of those who
cannot "hang" or don't have the discipline to "not read" something
they don't like or don't agree with.

He probably could use some meds & anger management. (along with a
dictionary)

"BobK207" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 11, 9:08 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Jul 10, 11:50 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Jul 10, 5:18 am, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jul 9, 8:30 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

roups.com...

remember no references to actual post content.

I can at least read the thread and know the difference
between
AM/PM. I
also
know it takes HOURS of run time to get a $320 electric bill.

You don't!!!!!!!

Try a bit harder, you're not reading carefully enough....I
merely
suggested she use noon & midnight instead of 12pm & 12am to
avoid
confusion

Yeah, like it's so confusing. rolleyes

Well, if its so universally clear why are several people arguing
about
it?

Pretty hard to argue over the meaning of noon & midnight; my
initial
point
o
Pretty hard targue over a $320 electric bill.

That's why I never did argue about that "$320 electric bill"

I merely suggested the use of noon & midnight over 12PM &
12AM......the OP & others chose to argue about meaning of 12AM & 12PM.

Pretty much a waste of time & un-necessary if noon & midnight are
used.

Sorry that you're confused with the facts..

If someone can't comprehend this ladies post, they sure as hell can't
help
her!

Actually I'm not confused with the facts but your replies often do
confuse me because they just don't follow.........


I'm sorry that you can't keep up with me... no wonder you post crap!