Doug Kanter wrote:

I pay $29.95 for an oil change. My mechanic checks or greases all the
fittings that Toyota recommends for my 4 wheel drive vehicle. They check
brake pads and give me an idea of when to start thinking about service. He
greases hood latch, tailgate latch, all door hinges & latches, checks brake
fluid, power steering fluid, transmission fluid, and tops them off at no
charge if they need it. At 12000 miles, he noticed some rust on the rear
bumper, underneath where I probably wouldn't have noticed it. That enabled
me to get it replaced under warranty. At 18000 miles, he noticed that the
tires were wearing unevenly. Back to the dealer, since alignment is covered
by warranty. They said it was within spec, and didn't adjust. My mechanic
did some research and found, IIRC, that this truck wants its front wheels
dead center within the range of spec, not just "within the range". He
probably saved me having to spend $500 on tires a year or two too soon.

Sounds worth it to me.

Yeah, that may look good on the surface, but when you realize that your
time is no longer occupied with your car and you can work/play on
something else, you...
Hmmmm. Nevermind.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
ups.com...
Doug Kanter wrote:

I pay $29.95 for an oil change. My mechanic checks or greases all the
fittings that Toyota recommends for my 4 wheel drive vehicle. They check
brake pads and give me an idea of when to start thinking about service.
He
greases hood latch, tailgate latch, all door hinges & latches, checks
brake
fluid, power steering fluid, transmission fluid, and tops them off at no
charge if they need it. At 12000 miles, he noticed some rust on the rear
bumper, underneath where I probably wouldn't have noticed it. That
enabled
me to get it replaced under warranty. At 18000 miles, he noticed that the
tires were wearing unevenly. Back to the dealer, since alignment is
covered
by warranty. They said it was within spec, and didn't adjust. My mechanic
did some research and found, IIRC, that this truck wants its front wheels
dead center within the range of spec, not just "within the range". He
probably saved me having to spend $500 on tires a year or two too soon.

Sounds worth it to me.

Yeah, that may look good on the surface, but when you realize that your
time is no longer occupied with your car and you can work/play on
something else, you...
Hmmmm. Nevermind.

R


Believe me....we agree on that. Give me a choice of working on my car on a
Saturday, or fishing, gardening, phuquing, practicing bass guitar, or just
watching a good movie with my excellent son, I am NOT gonna choose "car".
However, I will never allow anyone else to wash it, wax it, or detail the
interior, for reasons too dumb to mention. And, it *is* goofy to not change
your own wipers, unless you forget to do it until it's 7 degrees outside and
you can't feel your fingers, or hold a tool with heavy gloves on.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:k3_Qe.12803$cY.8442@trndny06...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message

I pay $29.95 for an oil change. My mechanic checks or greases all the
fittings that Toyota recommends for my 4 wheel drive vehicle. They check
brake pads and give me an idea of when to start thinking about service.
He greases hood latch, tailgate latch, all door hinges & latches, checks
brake fluid, power steering fluid, transmission fluid, and tops them off
at no charge if they need it.


I get that for $24.95 at a local guy, not a big franchise. He does not do
any of the other work that you mentioned , so he has no reason to try to
scam anyone for a brake job or ball joints. But, as you point out, he is
able to spot stuff while under the car.

I used to change my own oil but when I bought a new car in 1991, that
changed. I bought the oil, bought the filter, drove the car up on ramps
and could not find the filter! It was mounted off the engine on an
auxiliary block that was difficult to reach fun underneath. Easier if you
jacked the car and turned the wheels to one side. That was my last oil
change. As I get older and less agile, I have less interest in crawling
under a car. I find it easier to earn the money and pay to have it done.


I forgot to mention (in response to Mr. Example) that the first time I asked
this mechanic why he didn't recommend an air filter, he said "Check it
yourself. You don't need us for that". Another time, he said that 99% of the
time, they find the filters aren't ready to be replaced when the car maker
says they should be. So much for ripping off the customer.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"User Example" wrote in message
...

RicodJour wrote:

Doug Kanter wrote:


"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message


Doug Kanter wrote:


Oh....you pay a little more for the oil & filter someplace else?
Whatever
for?

I think he's saying he doesn't change oil and filter because he won't
pay the exorbitant overheads involved in the manufacturing and
distribution of the products that he could just as well make for
himself...

46 oz juice can, stuffed with cheesecloth, attached with duct tape. Got
it!


No, that's not it. You forget who you're talking about. This is Mr.
Can-Do!, the perfectionist. He refines his own oil because if anyone
is gouging, it's the oil companies. The filter housings come from his
foray into smelting a while back, so he was already geared up for
production. The filtering medium was obviously left over from his
paper-making endeavours (paper grows on trees! Why should he pay
anything at all for it?).

R


Actually I change my own oil because I know that those guys don't grease
the ball joints or check any other suspension type stuff. They are too
busy undoing your airfilter so that they can get you to buy another one. I
change my oil every 3 months and check out the bottom of my car. Costs a
lot less than the jiffy lube and a lot more care goes into it. My Jeep has
over 300000 miles on it and purrs like a kitten and has never needed any
major service. Just a clutch, and I replaced that myself in an afternoon
and save $800.

Who needs good gas mileage when you can save the money by doing your own
maintenance?


I pay $29.95 for an oil change. My mechanic checks or greases all the
fittings that Toyota recommends for my 4 wheel drive vehicle. They check
brake pads and give me an idea of when to start thinking about service. He
greases hood latch, tailgate latch, all door hinges & latches, checks brake
fluid, power steering fluid, transmission fluid, and tops them off at no
charge if they need it. At 12000 miles, he noticed some rust on the rear
bumper, underneath where I probably wouldn't have noticed it. That enabled
me to get it replaced under warranty. At 18000 miles, he noticed that the
tires were wearing unevenly. Back to the dealer, since alignment is covered
by warranty. They said it was within spec, and didn't adjust. My mechanic
did some research and found, IIRC, that this truck wants its front wheels
dead center within the range of spec, not just "within the range". He
probably saved me having to spend $500 on tires a year or two too soon.

Sounds worth it to me.



I guess to you. I just go out in my driveway and slide under the car.
Takes about 10 minutes out of my dar. How long do you spend sitting the
lube place?

"User Example" wrote in message

I guess to you. I just go out in my driveway and slide under the car.
Takes about 10 minutes out of my dar. How long do you spend sitting the
lube place?

We all have different values. I go during the work day so no time lost
(yes, I'm getting paid to sit there) . I can sit and read the paper for the
20 minutes so it is a nice break. Better than crawling under the car.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"User Example" wrote in message

I guess to you. I just go out in my driveway and slide under the car.
Takes about 10 minutes out of my dar. How long do you spend sitting the
lube place?

We all have different values. I go during the work day so no time lost
(yes, I'm getting paid to sit there) . I can sit and read the paper for the
20 minutes so it is a nice break. Better than crawling under the car.

Small town advantage...I call and they come pick it up and bring it
back/ Oil/lube/wash for $18.95.

Duane Bozarth wrote:
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"User Example" wrote in message

I guess to you. I just go out in my driveway and slide under the car.
Takes about 10 minutes out of my dar. How long do you spend sitting the
lube place?

We all have different values. I go during the work day so no time lost
(yes, I'm getting paid to sit there) . I can sit and read the paper for the
20 minutes so it is a nice break. Better than crawling under the car.

Small town advantage...I call and they come pick it up and bring it
back/ Oil/lube/wash for $18.95.

Will they pick up from out of state? Tell the guy I'll give him a $20
and he can keep the change for his efforts.

R

RicodJour wrote:

Duane Bozarth wrote:
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"User Example" wrote in message

I guess to you. I just go out in my driveway and slide under the car.
Takes about 10 minutes out of my dar. How long do you spend sitting the
lube place?

We all have different values. I go during the work day so no time lost
(yes, I'm getting paid to sit there) . I can sit and read the paper for the
20 minutes so it is a nice break. Better than crawling under the car.

Small town advantage...I call and they come pick it up and bring it
back/ Oil/lube/wash for $18.95.

Will they pick up from out of state? Tell the guy I'll give him a $20
and he can keep the change for his efforts.

Actually, some they do...

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:03:16 GMT, User Example
wrote:

Doug Kanter wrote:
"User Example" wrote in message
...

RicodJour wrote:

Doug Kanter wrote:


"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message


Doug Kanter wrote:


Oh....you pay a little more for the oil & filter someplace else?
Whatever
for?

I think he's saying he doesn't change oil and filter because he won't
pay the exorbitant overheads involved in the manufacturing and
distribution of the products that he could just as well make for
himself...

46 oz juice can, stuffed with cheesecloth, attached with duct tape. Got
it!


No, that's not it. You forget who you're talking about. This is Mr.
Can-Do!, the perfectionist. He refines his own oil because if anyone
is gouging, it's the oil companies. The filter housings come from his
foray into smelting a while back, so he was already geared up for
production. The filtering medium was obviously left over from his
paper-making endeavours (paper grows on trees! Why should he pay
anything at all for it?).

R


Actually I change my own oil because I know that those guys don't grease
the ball joints or check any other suspension type stuff. They are too
busy undoing your airfilter so that they can get you to buy another one. I
change my oil every 3 months and check out the bottom of my car. Costs a
lot less than the jiffy lube and a lot more care goes into it. My Jeep has
over 300000 miles on it and purrs like a kitten and has never needed any
major service. Just a clutch, and I replaced that myself in an afternoon
and save $800.

Who needs good gas mileage when you can save the money by doing your own
maintenance?


I pay $29.95 for an oil change. My mechanic checks or greases all the
fittings that Toyota recommends for my 4 wheel drive vehicle. They check
brake pads and give me an idea of when to start thinking about service. He
greases hood latch, tailgate latch, all door hinges & latches, checks brake
fluid, power steering fluid, transmission fluid, and tops them off at no
charge if they need it. At 12000 miles, he noticed some rust on the rear
bumper, underneath where I probably wouldn't have noticed it. That enabled
me to get it replaced under warranty. At 18000 miles, he noticed that the
tires were wearing unevenly. Back to the dealer, since alignment is covered
by warranty. They said it was within spec, and didn't adjust. My mechanic
did some research and found, IIRC, that this truck wants its front wheels
dead center within the range of spec, not just "within the range". He
probably saved me having to spend $500 on tires a year or two too soon.

Sounds worth it to me.



I guess to you. I just go out in my driveway and slide under the car.
Takes about 10 minutes out of my dar. How long do you spend sitting the
lube place?


Same here. It takes about 10 minutes of my time. Replacing brake
pads takes less than a half hour. I check tire pressure and fluid
levels while filling up at the station.

Red Cloud® wrote:
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:03:16 GMT, User Example wrote:


I guess to you. I just go out in my driveway and slide under the car.
Takes about 10 minutes out of my dar. How long do you spend sitting the
lube place?


In ten minutes you get the car up in the air, change the oil and filter, inspect
and grease everything... SURE YOU DO!

I doubt you can do it properly in less than an hour. Actually, I doubt you can
do it properly at all.

Then there's driving to the autoparts store to buy the oil, grease and filter at
retail, and driving again to properly dispose of the old oil and filter. How
much time and gas for all of that?

You are a clown

rusty redcloud

I think you are right about the time. It takes me
about 45 minutes. Run the car up on a ramp (2
stacked 2x6's), get the tools, get the drain pan,
take the drain plug out. Let it drain for 10-15
minutes, during which time I have coffee or read
or watch TV. Put the drain plug back. Put in 1
quart and let it drain, (do that 5or 6 times).
dump the oil in a container. drive off the ramps
and put the boards back. Yep, about 45min maybe
an hour.

But I think you protest to much about the rest. I
buy oil by the case, enough for 2-3 changes
(depends on the vehicle). If I went specifically
for the oil, it would take me 10 minutes and a cup
of gas (the auto parts is about 1 miles away). I
buy filters at Walmart when I am there, so there
is no added time. Our garbage service picks up
oil, so the time value is about 1 minute to walk
to the curb.

The cost to me is $6.50 to 8.50 depending on the car.

BTW, I bought an oil change contract, when I
bought my truck. The minimum time I have ever
spent was 1 hour for an oil change when I stay
there and wait. It is always much more time when
I have them haul me home and then come get me when
the oil change has been completed. So far the
cost has averaged $16 for each oil change. I
figure I need another 4 years to get the average
cost below $10.

"User Example" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"User Example" wrote in message
...

RicodJour wrote:

Doug Kanter wrote:


"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message


Doug Kanter wrote:


Oh....you pay a little more for the oil & filter someplace else?
Whatever
for?

I think he's saying he doesn't change oil and filter because he won't
pay the exorbitant overheads involved in the manufacturing and
distribution of the products that he could just as well make for
himself...

46 oz juice can, stuffed with cheesecloth, attached with duct tape. Got
it!


No, that's not it. You forget who you're talking about. This is Mr.
Can-Do!, the perfectionist. He refines his own oil because if anyone
is gouging, it's the oil companies. The filter housings come from his
foray into smelting a while back, so he was already geared up for
production. The filtering medium was obviously left over from his
paper-making endeavours (paper grows on trees! Why should he pay
anything at all for it?).

R


Actually I change my own oil because I know that those guys don't grease
the ball joints or check any other suspension type stuff. They are too
busy undoing your airfilter so that they can get you to buy another one.
I change my oil every 3 months and check out the bottom of my car. Costs
a lot less than the jiffy lube and a lot more care goes into it. My Jeep
has over 300000 miles on it and purrs like a kitten and has never needed
any major service. Just a clutch, and I replaced that myself in an
afternoon and save $800.

Who needs good gas mileage when you can save the money by doing your own
maintenance?


I pay $29.95 for an oil change. My mechanic checks or greases all the
fittings that Toyota recommends for my 4 wheel drive vehicle. They check
brake pads and give me an idea of when to start thinking about service.
He greases hood latch, tailgate latch, all door hinges & latches, checks
brake fluid, power steering fluid, transmission fluid, and tops them off
at no charge if they need it. At 12000 miles, he noticed some rust on the
rear bumper, underneath where I probably wouldn't have noticed it. That
enabled me to get it replaced under warranty. At 18000 miles, he noticed
that the tires were wearing unevenly. Back to the dealer, since alignment
is covered by warranty. They said it was within spec, and didn't adjust.
My mechanic did some research and found, IIRC, that this truck wants its
front wheels dead center within the range of spec, not just "within the
range". He probably saved me having to spend $500 on tires a year or two
too soon.

Sounds worth it to me.

I guess to you. I just go out in my driveway and slide under the car.
Takes about 10 minutes out of my dar. How long do you spend sitting the
lube place?

About a half hour. I talk shooting with the guy who works on my car. The
other mechanic wanders over for a few minutes and we talk fishing. There's a
fine trout stream about 5 minutes away on foot. It's a bitch.

"User Example" wrote in message
...

I guess to you. I just go out in my driveway and slide under the car.

How long does it take you to get to the place where you turn in your used
oil? Or, do you pour it into a hole in the ground because all
environmentalists are wrong (not to mention leftist elitist hippies)?

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...


BTW, I bought an oil change contract, when I bought my truck. The
minimum time I have ever spent was 1 hour for an oil change when I stay
there and wait.

Now....that involves the dealer, right? Hmmm.....I don't know about yours,
but I've found that with most dealers, whatever is done to your car is
relayed back to you via a service writers, and they're not always the
sharpest knives in the drawer. I like talking directly to the mechanic. No
smoke & mirrors that way.

George E. Cawthon wrote:
Red Cloud® wrote:

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:03:16 GMT, User Example wrote:


I guess to you. I just go out in my driveway and slide under the
car. Takes about 10 minutes out of my dar. How long do you spend
sitting the lube place?



In ten minutes you get the car up in the air, change the oil and
filter, inspect
and grease everything... SURE YOU DO!


I was talking just about the inspection part. Not the oil change part.
Also, I change the oil in all 3 of my cars at the same time. I go
right down the line. This way I do all 3 cars in about 1 hr or less. I
take the used oil to the auto parts store the next time I buy some.
Usually on the way home from work. So, I don't really spend any
"quality" time buying or returning oil.

If you can take 3 cars to your oil change place and get them all changed
within an hour and have quality work done at the cost I pay, then you
have got me beat. But I bet it costs triple and the time is at least
double.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...


BTW, I bought an oil change contract, when I bought my truck. The
minimum time I have ever spent was 1 hour for an oil change when I stay
there and wait.


Now....that involves the dealer, right? Hmmm.....I don't know about yours,
but I've found that with most dealers, whatever is done to your car is
relayed back to you via a service writers, and they're not always the
sharpest knives in the drawer. I like talking directly to the mechanic. No
smoke & mirrors that way.



Do you mean they outsource it to someone else?
It is through a dealer and in my case the dealer
has three bays specifically for lube jobs (and
tires). I can watch the mechanic through a glass
window and I walk out into the bay to pickup the
vehicle if I am standing there when they finish.
If I wanted to I can yell at the mechanic and talk
to him. The service managers (guys at the
counters seem to know quite a bit) the actual oil
change guys are pretty much on the bottom of the
totem pole and pretty much a mixed bag. Doesn't
bother me that they may not be the sharpest minds
since they are just changing oil, filling other
fluids, and checking for visible leaks. Anything
more serious goes to the regular maintenance bay.

User Example wrote:
George E. Cawthon wrote:

Red Cloud® wrote:

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:03:16 GMT, User Example wrote:


I guess to you. I just go out in my driveway and slide under the
car. Takes about 10 minutes out of my dar. How long do you spend
sitting the lube place?




In ten minutes you get the car up in the air, change the oil and
filter, inspect
and grease everything... SURE YOU DO!


I was talking just about the inspection part. Not the oil change part.
Also, I change the oil in all 3 of my cars at the same time. I go
right down the line. This way I do all 3 cars in about 1 hr or less. I
take the used oil to the auto parts store the next time I buy some.
Usually on the way home from work. So, I don't really spend any
"quality" time buying or returning oil.

If you can take 3 cars to your oil change place and get them all changed
within an hour and have quality work done at the cost I pay, then you
have got me beat. But I bet it costs triple and the time is at least
double.

Yep, three vehicles going to an oil change place
would be a riot and expensive. The two vehicles
that I change oil have highly varied usage and
since they are no longer under a guarantee program
I don't have a regular timed change program but
change oil based primarily on usage. The oil
changes times seldom coincide.

"User Example" wrote in message
...

snip

But screw it, I am
done trying to convince people they can save money if they want. Let
them waste it along with the money they throw away on gas in their Ford
Expedition.

The DIY'ers already know that. You're just going to catch **** from the
'pros' who don't want the homeowners cutting them out of the equation.

"Olaf" wrote in message
...

"User Example" wrote in message
...

snip

But screw it, I am
done trying to convince people they can save money if they want. Let
them waste it along with the money they throw away on gas in their Ford
Expedition.

The DIY'ers already know that. You're just going to catch **** from the
'pros' who don't want the homeowners cutting them out of the equation.




Actually, he's also catching **** from DIY'ers who know their limitations,
which is a sign of maturity and wisdom. Now, I'm off to install my new
kitchen faucet.

In article , Doug Kanter says...


"Olaf" wrote in message
...

"User Example" wrote in message
...

snip

But screw it, I am
done trying to convince people they can save money if they want. Let
them waste it along with the money they throw away on gas in their Ford
Expedition.

The DIY'ers already know that. You're just going to catch **** from the
'pros' who don't want the homeowners cutting them out of the equation.




Actually, he's also catching **** from DIY'ers who know their limitations,

...and their priorities.

which is a sign of maturity and wisdom. Now, I'm off to install my new
kitchen faucet.



Banty

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Olaf" wrote in message
...

"User Example" wrote in message
om...

snip

But screw it, I am
done trying to convince people they can save money if they want. Let
them waste it along with the money they throw away on gas in their Ford
Expedition.

The DIY'ers already know that. You're just going to catch **** from the
'pros' who don't want the homeowners cutting them out of the equation.





Actually, he's also catching **** from DIY'ers who know their limitations,
which is a sign of maturity and wisdom. Now, I'm off to install my new
kitchen faucet.



No, I was catching it from the STDIY'er (scared to do it yourself). I
just finished installing a mini-split a/c unit. I thought I might be in
over my head but aftering careful planning and research it went in
easily and I saved at lease a thousand dollars. The money I saved will
pay for it's electricity for a few years.

"User Example" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Olaf" wrote in message
...

"User Example" wrote in message
. com...

snip

But screw it, I am
done trying to convince people they can save money if they want. Let
them waste it along with the money they throw away on gas in their Ford
Expedition.

The DIY'ers already know that. You're just going to catch **** from the
'pros' who don't want the homeowners cutting them out of the equation.





Actually, he's also catching **** from DIY'ers who know their
limitations, which is a sign of maturity and wisdom. Now, I'm off to
install my new kitchen faucet.

No, I was catching it from the STDIY'er (scared to do it yourself). I
just finished installing a mini-split a/c unit. I thought I might be in
over my head but aftering careful planning and research it went in easily
and I saved at lease a thousand dollars. The money I saved will pay for
it's electricity for a few years.

Didn't you say you were bored with this conversation about 4 days ago?

Doug Kanter wrote:
"User Example" wrote in message
...

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Olaf" wrote in message
...


"User Example" wrote in message
.com...

snip

But screw it, I am
done trying to convince people they can save money if they want. Let
them waste it along with the money they throw away on gas in their Ford
Expedition.

The DIY'ers already know that. You're just going to catch **** from the
'pros' who don't want the homeowners cutting them out of the equation.





Actually, he's also catching **** from DIY'ers who know their
limitations, which is a sign of maturity and wisdom. Now, I'm off to
install my new kitchen faucet.

No, I was catching it from the STDIY'er (scared to do it yourself). I
just finished installing a mini-split a/c unit. I thought I might be in
over my head but aftering careful planning and research it went in easily
and I saved at lease a thousand dollars. The money I saved will pay for
it's electricity for a few years.


Didn't you say you were bored with this conversation about 4 days ago?


Can't a person change their mind?

User Example wrote:

No, I was catching it from the STDIY'er (scared to do it yourself).

What you got was derision for your attitude, not for doing the work.
Telling people they're idiots if they don't do something themselves,
is, well, idiotic. You made up your own mind about the value of your
time and your priorities, have the courtesy to let other people do the
same.

I just finished installing a mini-split a/c unit. I thought I might be
in over my head but aftering careful planning and research it went in
easily and I saved at lease a thousand dollars. The money I saved will
pay for it's electricity for a few years.

Very good.

R

RicodJour wrote:
User Example wrote:

No, I was catching it from the STDIY'er (scared to do it yourself).


What you got was derision for your attitude, not for doing the work.
Telling people they're idiots if they don't do something themselves,
is, well, idiotic. You made up your own mind about the value of your
time and your priorities, have the courtesy to let other people do the
same.


Although I did say that people who don;t do it themselves are idiots it
was merely a typo. I meant to say I that I DON'T have a problem with
people tha don't do it themselves. It is the people that tell them they
CAN'T do it that I have a problem with.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:51:13 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


Do these guys really have so much
work that they can be this way with potential customers?

Sometimes, yes, "these guys" do have so much work. It depends on the
potential customer. Sometimes I'll get a call from someone who starts
breaking my chops and conducting an inquisition before I have even
seen the job. They'll demand a firm estimate over the phone to be
followed up by the FREE written estimate, the scheduling of which is
to be at their convenience regardless of my work schedule. Before I've
even seen the job they demand chapter and verse about how the job will
actually be done and what materials will be used.
Anyone who is any good doesn't need that kind of customer. They have
plenty of work. I just thank them for calling and tell them I'll get
back to them when I can assure them of a firm appointment for an
estimate. Then I just forget about them. Life's too short.
Did I describe you?

MisterSkippy wrote:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:51:13 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


Do these guys really have so much
work that they can be this way with potential customers?


Sometimes, yes, "these guys" do have so much work. It depends on the
potential customer. Sometimes I'll get a call from someone who starts
breaking my chops and conducting an inquisition before I have even
seen the job. They'll demand a firm estimate over the phone to be
followed up by the FREE written estimate, the scheduling of which is
to be at their convenience regardless of my work schedule. Before I've
even seen the job they demand chapter and verse about how the job will
actually be done and what materials will be used.
Anyone who is any good doesn't need that kind of customer. They have
plenty of work. I just thank them for calling and tell them I'll get
back to them when I can assure them of a firm appointment for an
estimate. Then I just forget about them. Life's too short.
Did I describe you?

Although you don't want these kinds of customers I can probably tell you
that these types of customers probably don't want you either. You just
said that you tell them you will call them back but then you just forget
about them. That tells me that (1) you are a liar and (2) you don't
have much respect for your customers.

The reason some customers make such demands is because there are a lot
of contractors out there who show up, do crappy work, and then cash the
pay check before the customer has time to figure out that the work that
was done was sloppy and needs to be fixed. Then when they try to get
the contractor to come back and fix it they get the runaround of "that's
the way it is supposed to be" or "that's as good as I can get it based
on what you have" or "you should have said something before I left the
worksite".

The customer is the one PAYING to get the work done and they are the one
who has to LIVE with the results. They have ever RIGHT to be demanding
and picky. You can choose not to work for them but at least be man
enough to tell them you don't want to instead of being a lowlife liar
that leaves them hanging.

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:28:48 GMT, User Example
wrote:

MisterSkippy wrote:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:51:13 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


Do these guys really have so much
work that they can be this way with potential customers?


Sometimes, yes, "these guys" do have so much work. It depends on the
potential customer. Sometimes I'll get a call from someone who starts
breaking my chops and conducting an inquisition before I have even
seen the job. They'll demand a firm estimate over the phone to be
followed up by the FREE written estimate, the scheduling of which is
to be at their convenience regardless of my work schedule. Before I've
even seen the job they demand chapter and verse about how the job will
actually be done and what materials will be used.
Anyone who is any good doesn't need that kind of customer. They have
plenty of work. I just thank them for calling and tell them I'll get
back to them when I can assure them of a firm appointment for an
estimate. Then I just forget about them. Life's too short.
Did I describe you?

Although you don't want these kinds of customers I can probably tell you
that these types of customers probably don't want you either. You just
said that you tell them you will call them back but then you just forget
about them. That tells me that (1) you are a liar and (2) you don't
have much respect for your customers.

The reason some customers make such demands is because there are a lot
of contractors out there who show up, do crappy work, and then cash the
pay check before the customer has time to figure out that the work that
was done was sloppy and needs to be fixed. Then when they try to get
the contractor to come back and fix it they get the runaround of "that's
the way it is supposed to be" or "that's as good as I can get it based
on what you have" or "you should have said something before I left the
worksite".

The customer is the one PAYING to get the work done and they are the one
who has to LIVE with the results. They have ever RIGHT to be demanding
and picky. You can choose not to work for them but at least be man
enough to tell them you don't want to instead of being a lowlife liar
that leaves them hanging.

You missed the entire point you ignorant asshole.
PLONK!

MisterSkippy wrote:
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:28:48 GMT, User Example
wrote:


MisterSkippy wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:51:13 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:



Do these guys really have so much
work that they can be this way with potential customers?


Sometimes, yes, "these guys" do have so much work. It depends on the
potential customer. Sometimes I'll get a call from someone who starts
breaking my chops and conducting an inquisition before I have even
seen the job. They'll demand a firm estimate over the phone to be
followed up by the FREE written estimate, the scheduling of which is
to be at their convenience regardless of my work schedule. Before I've
even seen the job they demand chapter and verse about how the job will
actually be done and what materials will be used.
Anyone who is any good doesn't need that kind of customer. They have
plenty of work. I just thank them for calling and tell them I'll get
back to them when I can assure them of a firm appointment for an
estimate. Then I just forget about them. Life's too short.
Did I describe you?

Although you don't want these kinds of customers I can probably tell you
that these types of customers probably don't want you either. You just
said that you tell them you will call them back but then you just forget
about them. That tells me that (1) you are a liar and (2) you don't
have much respect for your customers.

The reason some customers make such demands is because there are a lot
of contractors out there who show up, do crappy work, and then cash the
pay check before the customer has time to figure out that the work that
was done was sloppy and needs to be fixed. Then when they try to get
the contractor to come back and fix it they get the runaround of "that's
the way it is supposed to be" or "that's as good as I can get it based
on what you have" or "you should have said something before I left the
worksite".

The customer is the one PAYING to get the work done and they are the one
who has to LIVE with the results. They have ever RIGHT to be demanding
and picky. You can choose not to work for them but at least be man
enough to tell them you don't want to instead of being a lowlife liar
that leaves them hanging.


You missed the entire point you ignorant asshole.
PLONK!

No, you did.

In article , User Example says...

MisterSkippy wrote:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:51:13 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


Do these guys really have so much
work that they can be this way with potential customers?


Sometimes, yes, "these guys" do have so much work. It depends on the
potential customer. Sometimes I'll get a call from someone who starts
breaking my chops and conducting an inquisition before I have even
seen the job. They'll demand a firm estimate over the phone to be
followed up by the FREE written estimate, the scheduling of which is
to be at their convenience regardless of my work schedule. Before I've
even seen the job they demand chapter and verse about how the job will
actually be done and what materials will be used.
Anyone who is any good doesn't need that kind of customer. They have
plenty of work. I just thank them for calling and tell them I'll get
back to them when I can assure them of a firm appointment for an
estimate. Then I just forget about them. Life's too short.
Did I describe you?

Although you don't want these kinds of customers I can probably tell you
that these types of customers probably don't want you either. You just
said that you tell them you will call them back but then you just forget
about them. That tells me that (1) you are a liar and (2) you don't
have much respect for your customers.

The reason some customers make such demands is because there are a lot
of contractors out there who show up, do crappy work, and then cash the
pay check before the customer has time to figure out that the work that
was done was sloppy and needs to be fixed. Then when they try to get
the contractor to come back and fix it they get the runaround of "that's
the way it is supposed to be" or "that's as good as I can get it based
on what you have" or "you should have said something before I left the
worksite".

If you do all of your own work, how do you 'know' this stuff??

IME and IMNSHO as a homeowner, I've found contractors to be pretty good, even
excellent. That's probably because I go through word-of-mouth when I can, and,
even if not say for a small job, I can tell who is good and who isn't. And
approach the whole thing as something of a partnership.

Maybe you have a problem dealing with people that prevents you from making these
connections and observations.


The customer is the one PAYING to get the work done and they are the one
who has to LIVE with the results. They have ever RIGHT to be demanding
and picky. You can choose not to work for them but at least be man
enough to tell them you don't want to instead of being a lowlife liar
that leaves them hanging.




See -you **** people off right and left.

Banty

Banty wrote:
In article , User Example says...

MisterSkippy wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:51:13 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:



Do these guys really have so much
work that they can be this way with potential customers?


Sometimes, yes, "these guys" do have so much work. It depends on the
potential customer. Sometimes I'll get a call from someone who starts
breaking my chops and conducting an inquisition before I have even
seen the job. They'll demand a firm estimate over the phone to be
followed up by the FREE written estimate, the scheduling of which is
to be at their convenience regardless of my work schedule. Before I've
even seen the job they demand chapter and verse about how the job will
actually be done and what materials will be used.
Anyone who is any good doesn't need that kind of customer. They have
plenty of work. I just thank them for calling and tell them I'll get
back to them when I can assure them of a firm appointment for an
estimate. Then I just forget about them. Life's too short.
Did I describe you?

Although you don't want these kinds of customers I can probably tell you
that these types of customers probably don't want you either. You just
said that you tell them you will call them back but then you just forget
about them. That tells me that (1) you are a liar and (2) you don't
have much respect for your customers.

The reason some customers make such demands is because there are a lot
of contractors out there who show up, do crappy work, and then cash the
pay check before the customer has time to figure out that the work that
was done was sloppy and needs to be fixed. Then when they try to get
the contractor to come back and fix it they get the runaround of "that's
the way it is supposed to be" or "that's as good as I can get it based
on what you have" or "you should have said something before I left the
worksite".


If you do all of your own work, how do you 'know' this stuff??

IME and IMNSHO as a homeowner, I've found contractors to be pretty good, even
excellent. That's probably because I go through word-of-mouth when I can, and,
even if not say for a small job, I can tell who is good and who isn't. And
approach the whole thing as something of a partnership.

Maybe you have a problem dealing with people that prevents you from making these
connections and observations.


Actually, my guess is that you are like many others who can't tell good
work from bad work and that you get screwed over and don't know about it.