Got a 27" TV, several years old, that the vertical seems to have gone bad
in. All I have is a thin, bright, horizontal line approx mid-screen.

I'm thinking of opening it up, pulling the vertical board, and replacing it.

Should that work?

"RB" writes:

Got a 27" TV, several years old, that the vertical seems to have gone bad
in. All I have is a thin, bright, horizontal line approx mid-screen.

I'm thinking of opening it up, pulling the vertical board, and replacing it.

Should that work?

And you think there is an actual separate board for the vertical?

Respectfully, if that's your plan, I would suggest modifying it to:
"Take TV to reputable repair shop and have them repair it."

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header is ignored.
To contact me, please use the feedback form on the S.E.R FAQ Web sites.

Unfortunately, it's not worth doing unless I do it myself. I found a new
replacement set for $188, and I've been told the shops in our area will
charge me at least $100 to fix it . They all want $50 just to tell me how
much it will cost to fix (the $50 becomes part of the repair price if they
get my go ahead to fix it).

Just hate to simply throw the old one away. Thought possibly I could fix it
myself.

Have at it, but buy the service manual from the generic manufacturer, buy
the required test instruments, and required supplies. Also read Sam's
excellent site illustrating the need for specific safety requirements before
you even attempt to open the set, let alone service it by removing a
"board".
As He said, have it done professionally!!
"RB" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, it's not worth doing unless I do it myself. I found a new
replacement set for $188, and I've been told the shops in our area will
charge me at least $100 to fix it . They all want $50 just to tell me how
much it will cost to fix (the $50 becomes part of the repair price if they
get my go ahead to fix it).

Just hate to simply throw the old one away. Thought possibly I could fix
it
myself.

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 13:30:45 -0500, "RB"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

Got a 27" TV, several years old, that the vertical seems to have gone bad
in. All I have is a thin, bright, horizontal line approx mid-screen.

I'm thinking of opening it up, pulling the vertical board, and replacing it.

Should that work?

I doubt that your TV has a separate board for this function, unless it
is eons old. In any case, the inside of a TV is no place for a board
jockey.

See http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_tvfaq5.html#TVFAQ_016


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

"RB" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, it's not worth doing unless I do it myself. I found a new
replacement set for $188, and I've been told the shops in our area will
charge me at least $100 to fix it . They all want $50 just to tell me how
much it will cost to fix (the $50 becomes part of the repair price if they
get my go ahead to fix it).

Just hate to simply throw the old one away. Thought possibly I could fix
it
myself.

Throwing stuff away goes against the grain (depending on when you were born,
etc.). You are probably not going to fix this on your own. So sad. Some
Wal-Marts are currently selling an FM radio receiver with headphones for one
dollar! Consumer electronic servicing has officially joined blacksmithing
as a lost art, for the most part. If you want to share your frustration,
think about the folks who learned consumer electronics repair and are still
too young to retire!

"RB" writes:

Unfortunately, it's not worth doing unless I do it myself. I found a new
replacement set for $188, and I've been told the shops in our area will
charge me at least $100 to fix it . They all want $50 just to tell me how
much it will cost to fix (the $50 becomes part of the repair price if they
get my go ahead to fix it).

Just hate to simply throw the old one away. Thought possibly I could fix it
myself.

Yes, but it's a matter of having to identify the bad part. Could just be
bad solder connections but not something you are likely to be able to do
yourself unless you have had some background in electronics. Read the FAQs.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header is ignored.
To contact me, please use the feedback form on the S.E.R FAQ Web sites.

Subject: tv repair plan
From: "RB"
Date: 7/17/04 9:35 PM
Message-id:


I found a new
replacement set for $188, and I've been told the shops in our area will
charge me at least $100 to fix it .

Cheap shoes, cheap tools, cheap tires, etc. You get what you pay for. TVs
that sell for $188 barely make it out of their warranty period. You'll get
what you pay for, and often less.

Got a 27" TV, several years old, that the vertical seems to have gone bad
in. All I have is a thin, bright, horizontal line approx mid-screen.

I'm thinking of opening it up, pulling the vertical board, and replacing it.

More than likely, the vertical section may have worn capacitors and/or dry and
cracked solder joints. Can possibly be a very easy repair, provided that you
have the right tools and that you know what you're doing.

BTW, most TV sets, including those produced in the 1980s, have the vertical
scan circuit integrated in the mainboard.

If you don't have any idea as to how to perform a proper repair and can't spend
the money to get it fixed, donate the TV to a repair shop and buy a
replacement.

Don't get suckered into buying those Wal-Mart specials, though. They are
cheaply made, usually don't last very long, and are usually backed by abyssmal
customer service.

TVs you ought to consider: Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Toshiba (higher end models
only), Hitachi, Loewe, and Philips (higher end models only).

Brands to stay away from: Funai, Apex, KLH, Sylvania, Magnavox, RCA, GE,
Emerson, Orion, Norcent, Samsung, LG/GoldStar, Zenith, Sansui, Celera, Curtis
Mathes, Symphonic, and Konka. - Reinhart

Thanks for the good info. I'm not going to try this repair, as I have no
test eqpt (except for DVOM). If it was something easy like pulling and
replacing a board, I'd take a chance on it. But, sounds like it could be
small components on a board that isn't a plug-in. And, I couldn't begin to
fault isolate, and maybe couldn't even replace a bad component. I don't
have micro-min soldering/de-soldering eqpt. Just an old weller gun.

But RCA and GE is one and same
and much better than rest of this junky things on that list but why
RCA (thomson) is NO good?

Some chassis made by Thomson are okay, but there were a few, especially those
with the infamous horizontal tuner module, that were, IMO, junk. There are
also a few surface mount parts in various Thomson chassis in critical sections
which make servicing more difficult.

Plus, while Thomson does make very good picture tubes, it's a pain to have to
replace an entire tube if the deflection yoke ever goes bad since the yoke is
bonded to the tube. What makes it worse is that Thomson tubes are used in a
lot of different brands, including JVC and Hitachi. Fortunately, the yoke is
an item that rarely fails.

I still stand by my opinion and I frequent a TV/Stereo store where the
salespeople always refer to RCA products as "Return Comin' At'cha," a
generalization that applies to any Thomson product.

And, in an unusual manufacturing defect in a Thomson set. A customer brought
in an RCA TV to a repair shop that made a loud POP and would not turn on
anymore. Turns out the failure was caused by a stray resistor left in the
horizontal drive section that eventually managed to work its way in creating a
short in the high voltage parts.

Another Thomson defect that was returned to the store I go to: An RCA TV
stopped working and an unusual smell started coming from inside the enclosure.
Turns out someone left a rather large piece of food inside the TV which managed
to short something out and get cooked in the process. - Reinhart

"Jason D." wrote in
message ...
On 18 Jul 2004 20:25:58 GMT,
(LASERandDVDfan) wrote:

[snip]

I still stand by my opinion and I frequent a TV/Stereo store where the
salespeople always refer to RCA products as "Return Comin' At'cha," a
generalization that applies to any Thomson product.

That's hurts. We liked them because of info and we do them and
actually made money and speedy service and made customers happy as
well. JVC is fine but very little in way of training stuff, same with
Samsung, I found many Samsung's undocumented items that techs should
know about.

To get a factual idea of which TV is better or worse one should know
the actual numbers of a particular brand and model sold in one's area.
Only then, the service required for each brand - model makes statistical
sense. Otherwise, it really does not sum up a true picture of which
brand - model is good or bad.

Regards Joe

--
Every blade of grass has its Angel that bends over it
and whispers, "Grow, grow." - The Talmud


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.722 / Virus Database: 478 - Release Date: 7/18/04

On 18 Jul 2004 02:22:05 GMT, (LASERandDVDfan)
wrote:
TVs you ought to consider: Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Toshiba (higher end models
only), Hitachi, Loewe, and Philips (higher end models only).

Brands to stay away from: Funai, Apex, KLH, Sylvania, Magnavox, RCA, GE,
Emerson, Orion, Norcent, Samsung, LG/GoldStar, Zenith, Sansui, Celera, Curtis
Mathes, Symphonic, and Konka. - Reinhart

JVC are excellent but mixed levels, need to know which models is the
best ones, you can get higher end JVC, and can find other JVC models
with medium end and low end designs are very common, takes some
hunting and asking questions. Even a flat CRT 20" JVC with either VCR
or DVD built in or without are sourced by Citizen (Jutan).

I agree with rest of to avoid list. But RCA and GE is one and same
and much better than rest of this junky things on that list but why
RCA (thomson) is NO good? We have good info and service manuals,
training materials from Thomson. I'm most successful with these
Thomson models because of this. The old days of CTC17x thing is way
back then and it's already done with but I still get occasional CTC17x
and CTC186/7 in for repair but are always successful on them.

Samsung is good on some types not all. Poor on design & serviceablity
particularly on Samsung's CRT projectors. DLP and their regular
CRT-based TVs is fine. Samsung is particularly good with computer
monitors especially in medium to high end monitors.

Konka is far and far away WORST. We got KONKA'ed by two so we won't
deal with it, told that clearly to my boss.

My comments and a quest for a great CRT TV picture that doesn't swells
up.

Take care that you find a TV that doesn't show a breathing or ones
that widens with brighter items or vertical items jaggies. I have yet
to see one in 25" and 27" that does have "ROCK STEADY" picture. Take
a look at those older RCA 13" series (based on TX826 chassis) uses
unique regulator design that knocks out 2 birds with a stone: Voltage
regulation, HV regulation therefore prevents breathing picture. That
is exactly what I want to find a modern CRT 25" or 27" with this
quality, even I have to special order particular model or find a
commerical is fine with me.

Know of them? I'm interested to know the models and brands of these.
Not Sony please, excessive cost of parts.

I have a bench JVC 27" (AV-27430) that says 105W on the back has awful
wigging out picture. All of this models based on this chassis shows
this same problem like my former emerson 13" does. Yuuk!! Current
RCA suffers from this with varying degrees but not totally gone even
some of them had stronger flyback and active pincushion. Later RCA
13" models (TX808 series) didn't have this nice unique design, baesd
on conventional deflection design and picture quality does suffered.

Cheers,

Wizard

On 18 Jul 2004 20:25:58 GMT, (LASERandDVDfan)
wrote:

But RCA and GE is one and same
and much better than rest of this junky things on that list but why
RCA (thomson) is NO good?

Some chassis made by Thomson are okay, but there were a few, especially those
with the infamous horizontal tuner module, that were, IMO, junk.

That is long ago now, production stopped on these onboard tuners
(CTC17x and CTC186, 7 and 9) around '98 and CTC203 took over this and
CTC203 in 1999 had onboard tuner but it had redesigned grounds, after
1999, went to vertical position tuner. Not a problem actually.
CTC203 with onboard tuner is rare and they still work.

There are
also a few surface mount parts in various Thomson chassis in critical sections
which make servicing more difficult.

Which chassis? 195 and 197 are no longer made now.

Plus, while Thomson does make very good picture tubes, it's a pain to have to
replace an entire tube if the deflection yoke ever goes bad since the yoke is
bonded to the tube. What makes it worse is that Thomson tubes are used in a
lot of different brands, including JVC and Hitachi. Fortunately, the yoke is
an item that rarely fails.

So far 2 years at my shop, only one RCA bonded yoke failed and that
was in Samsung.

I still stand by my opinion and I frequent a TV/Stereo store where the
salespeople always refer to RCA products as "Return Comin' At'cha," a
generalization that applies to any Thomson product.

That's hurts. We liked them because of info and we do them and
actually made money and speedy service and made customers happy as
well. JVC is fine but very little in way of training stuff, same with
Samsung, I found many Samsung's undocumented items that techs should
know about.

And, in an unusual manufacturing defect in a Thomson set. A customer brought
in an RCA TV to a repair shop that made a loud POP and would not turn on
anymore. Turns out the failure was caused by a stray resistor left in the
horizontal drive section that eventually managed to work its way in creating a
short in the high voltage parts.

Another Thomson defect that was returned to the store I go to: An RCA TV
stopped working and an unusual smell started coming from inside the enclosure.
Turns out someone left a rather large piece of food inside the TV which managed
to short something out and get cooked in the process. - Reinhart

Unusual and shouldn't be counted as normal problems.
That's two things I didn't see yet but this should be repaired,
Thomson will not let them to exchange them to thomson's unless it is
very serious. Only time a store had to exchange a projector equipped
with DTV at their expense was a supplier could not source a DTV power
supply we ordered (yes it have a part number!) which is unusual.

Failures is unlike any other stuff like JVC, etc and Thomson stuff is
actually good than the junkies.

Cheers,

Wizard

"RB" wrote in message
...
Got a 27" TV, several years old, that the vertical seems to have gone bad
in. All I have is a thin, bright, horizontal line approx mid-screen.

I'm thinking of opening it up, pulling the vertical board, and replacing
it.

Should that work?



There's unlikely to be a "vertical board" and even if there is and you pull
it out, chances are a replacement is not available.

The good news is that loss of vertical deflection is an easy fix relatively
speaking, and a good one for the beginner interested in TV repair to attempt
to tackle. It could be as simple as a cracked solder connection at the
vertical output chip, worst case the chip is fried, likely taking out a
fusible resistor supplying power to it. Should be able to fix it for under
20 bucks if you have a soldering iron, rosin core solder, and a multimeter,
which is also inexpensive these days. 95% of it is just knowing what to look
for.

"RB" wrote in message
...
Got a 27" TV, several years old, that the vertical seems to have gone bad
in. All I have is a thin, bright, horizontal line approx mid-screen.

I'm thinking of opening it up, pulling the vertical board, and replacing
it.

Should that work?



Oh yeah, I should add, before you go poking around in there READ THE FAQ,
TV's can be quite dangerous, but with some common sense they're perfectly
within the reach of the novice, just take a few simple precautions.

"RB" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the good info. I'm not going to try this repair, as I have no
test eqpt (except for DVOM). If it was something easy like pulling and
replacing a board, I'd take a chance on it. But, sounds like it could be
small components on a board that isn't a plug-in. And, I couldn't begin
to
fault isolate, and maybe couldn't even replace a bad component. I don't
have micro-min soldering/de-soldering eqpt. Just an old weller gun.



Try giving it away, is there a section on craigslist.org that's local to
you? Someone like myself could pick it up and put it to use.

"LASERandDVDfan" wrote in message
...
But RCA and GE is one and same
and much better than rest of this junky things on that list but why
RCA (thomson) is NO good?

Some chassis made by Thomson are okay, but there were a few, especially
those
with the infamous horizontal tuner module, that were, IMO, junk. There
are
also a few surface mount parts in various Thomson chassis in critical
sections
which make servicing more difficult.


Well I would agree that they do fail often, though they're a quite solid
design aside from that and the faults are well documented, I certainly don't
mind when one shows up, they tend to be good sets once properly repaired.

So a new tv costs 188$ and you can buy that but you cant afford 100$ to
get one fixed .. that never made sence to me .
However
100$ to get the vertical fixed is robbery it probably only needs 8$
worth of parts and 30 minutes of the repairmans time .. i have done
these many times .
I used to repair consumer electronics for a living but do other things
now but still repair the newer stuff that is bought as salvage where i
work .
I know the way most repair shops charged way to much to do simple
repairs . Unfortunately these days in order for the repair shops to keep
their doors open they must charge high because of the growing number of
non servicable electronics coming to them .
It sad but true . I still know a `service only` shop in town where we
take some of out high dollar stuff such as big screens and plasma ....
he charges the general public pretty stiff prices to fix simple vcr`s
for a cleaning .
Saying this makes most repair guys mad but its true .. My own brother
still has his own shop and has become so poor he has turned half his
shop into a gift shop of strange useless junk .

Replace the vertical chip and see if that works . You can probably get a
chip for around 10$ .

How can it be robbery if shops have to charge those rates to keep the doors
open? Can't figure your logic. You seem to understand the reality of the
costs of doing business but are unwilling to pay for it. You are worse than
the idiots that think we are getting rich.

Leonard

"Ken G." wrote in message
...
So a new tv costs 188$ and you can buy that but you cant afford 100$ to
get one fixed .. that never made sence to me .
However
100$ to get the vertical fixed is robbery it probably only needs 8$
worth of parts and 30 minutes of the repairmans time .. i have done
these many times .
I used to repair consumer electronics for a living but do other things
now but still repair the newer stuff that is bought as salvage where i
work .
I know the way most repair shops charged way to much to do simple
repairs . Unfortunately these days in order for the repair shops to keep
their doors open they must charge high because of the growing number of
non servicable electronics coming to them .
It sad but true . I still know a `service only` shop in town where we
take some of out high dollar stuff such as big screens and plasma ....
he charges the general public pretty stiff prices to fix simple vcr`s
for a cleaning .
Saying this makes most repair guys mad but its true .. My own brother
still has his own shop and has become so poor he has turned half his
shop into a gift shop of strange useless junk .

Replace the vertical chip and see if that works . You can probably get a
chip for around 10$ .

Thanks Leonard .You beat me to it.
Ken G Get a Life

kip


How can it be robbery if shops have to charge those rates to keep the doors
open? Can't figure your logic. You seem to understand the reality of the
costs of doing business but are unwilling to pay for it. You are worse than
the idiots that think we are getting rich.

Leonard

"Ken G." wrote in message Crap Crap

Leonard G. Caillouet wrote:

How can it be robbery if shops have to charge those rates to keep the doors
open? Can't figure your logic. You seem to understand the reality of the
costs of doing business but are unwilling to pay for it. You are worse than
the idiots that think we are getting rich.

Leonard

Hi...

A goodly part of that attitude is the legacy of
the "tube jockey" days... which some of you other
older folks may remember.

The rest is just evolution. I (the customer) don't
care a whit what it costs you to keep your shop open,
any more than you care what it costs me to keep mine
(were I not old and long retired).

The *only* consideration is the most cost effective
way to continue watching TV.

I could perhaps propose a solution. Your landfills
are filling at an incredible rate. Natural resources
are being consumed at an ever increasing pace.
Your dollars are (and indebtedness) are being
exported overseas so quickly that bankruptcy is
imminent. Your young people are losing more and
more career opportunities - a good education just
might get them a McJob.

I see on CNN (entertainment make believe news) that
your American jobs are being exported overseas by
the bucketful. Yet you same Americans for some
unexplicable reason trample each other in your
race to get sale-day bargains at Walmart (made in
China) electronics.

When I go and buy my grand daugher drinking boxes
of juice for her school lunch, I pay 2 cents extra
per box to the government for a "disposal?" fee.
When I buy a quart of oil, I pay an addition disposal
fee. The same for bottled soft drinks, and more.

So, my suggestion. Why doesn't your government charge
a *hefty* disposal (call it what you will) fee for
new electronics? And fridges, stoves, furnaces,
air conditioners, ad nauseum?

Use those extra funds to educate your youngsters.

It sure sounds logical to me.

Sorry for the rant. Hadda get it off my chest

Ken

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:A4yLc.73441$od7.57844@pd7tw3no...


Leonard G. Caillouet wrote:

How can it be robbery if shops have to charge those rates to keep the
doors
open? Can't figure your logic. You seem to understand the reality of
the
costs of doing business but are unwilling to pay for it. You are worse
than
the idiots that think we are getting rich.

Leonard

Hi...

A goodly part of that attitude is the legacy of
the "tube jockey" days... which some of you other
older folks may remember.

The rest is just evolution. I (the customer) don't
care a whit what it costs you to keep your shop open,
any more than you care what it costs me to keep mine
(were I not old and long retired).

The *only* consideration is the most cost effective
way to continue watching TV.

I could perhaps propose a solution. Your landfills
are filling at an incredible rate. Natural resources
are being consumed at an ever increasing pace.
Your dollars are (and indebtedness) are being
exported overseas so quickly that bankruptcy is
imminent. Your young people are losing more and
more career opportunities - a good education just
might get them a McJob.

I see on CNN (entertainment make believe news) that
your American jobs are being exported overseas by
the bucketful. Yet you same Americans for some
unexplicable reason trample each other in your
race to get sale-day bargains at Walmart (made in
China) electronics.

When I go and buy my grand daugher drinking boxes
of juice for her school lunch, I pay 2 cents extra
per box to the government for a "disposal?" fee.
When I buy a quart of oil, I pay an addition disposal
fee. The same for bottled soft drinks, and more.

So, my suggestion. Why doesn't your government charge
a *hefty* disposal (call it what you will) fee for
new electronics? And fridges, stoves, furnaces,
air conditioners, ad nauseum?

Use those extra funds to educate your youngsters.

It sure sounds logical to me.

Sorry for the rant. Hadda get it off my chest

Ken


I see your point, but the money would just go to support other countries
"first" rather than our own. We're too worried about others. Rather than
depending on China for "most everything", we need to become more self
reliant. I'd be willing to pay a bit more for good ole American products.
Most of the stuff anymore is pure junk, THAT is why the landfills are piling
up.

L.