On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:54:46 -0500, Swingman wrote:

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed
wood
as part of the construction.

Yes and no ... depends upon the application to me.

I personally would not consider biscuit joinery in place of traditional
joinery techniques on "fine furniture", but I have no qualms about using
them where one would normally use splines, or similar joinery methods, in
the components of fine furniture.

My use of biscuits in "fine furniture" is generally restricted to two
applications: on large panel glue-up for the alignment convenience, and
occasionally to strengthen miter joints where I don't want to use a visible,
or contrasting color spline, that shows.


Depends on what you're after too.

If you're after reproducing a traditional piece using traditional
methods, biscuits are out of the question, imo.

But some Normite projects . . . like NYW's entertainment center inspired
by an armoire. No one who knows period furnature would be "deceived" by
modern joinery and plywood in such a piece--you know no "original"
exists.

For modern pieces? *shrugs* Whatever works, taking into account the
goals of the piece.

Queer Eye for the Straight Guy (yes, really) gave me an idea for a piece
involving shelf brackets, though not used the way that week's victim
used them.

"Todd Fatheree" writes:

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits?

A biscuit is just a loose tenon. A biscuit joiner makes the mortices
for the loose tenon.

scott

"Todd Fatheree" writes:

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits?

A biscuit is just a loose tenon. A biscuit joiner makes the mortices
for the loose tenon.

scott

In article ,
says...
"Todd Fatheree" writes:

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits?

A biscuit is just a loose tenon. A biscuit joiner makes the mortices
for the loose tenon.

scott

But are the post-glue up expansion characteristics also true of tenons?

- Al

In article ,
says...
"Todd Fatheree" writes:

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits?

A biscuit is just a loose tenon. A biscuit joiner makes the mortices
for the loose tenon.

scott

But are the post-glue up expansion characteristics also true of tenons?

- Al

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in
:


Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is
like using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master
craftsman (yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with
using pressed wood as part of the construction. I know that no one
will ever see it or even know about it unless I tell them, but I'll
know. If I needed to increase the strength and/or help with
alignment, I guess I'd be inclined to use a cross-grain spline.

todd


Well, if it were just Norm, I could write it off to a trim carpentry and
construction background...

But David Marks uses them all the time. Worse yet, he uses them to attach
edging to MDF or plywood panels, some of which he has veneered personally.
;-)

And in some of the works of the Sainted Krenov, veneer over a stable
substrate is taken to a high art.

And many of the better works by artisans of an earlier day are veneered,
for wide range of valid reasons.

Solid wood has its place. But so do other constructions. Not all
furniture with engineered materials come from Walmart.

Patriarch

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in
:


Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is
like using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master
craftsman (yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with
using pressed wood as part of the construction. I know that no one
will ever see it or even know about it unless I tell them, but I'll
know. If I needed to increase the strength and/or help with
alignment, I guess I'd be inclined to use a cross-grain spline.

todd


Well, if it were just Norm, I could write it off to a trim carpentry and
construction background...

But David Marks uses them all the time. Worse yet, he uses them to attach
edging to MDF or plywood panels, some of which he has veneered personally.
;-)

And in some of the works of the Sainted Krenov, veneer over a stable
substrate is taken to a high art.

And many of the better works by artisans of an earlier day are veneered,
for wide range of valid reasons.

Solid wood has its place. But so do other constructions. Not all
furniture with engineered materials come from Walmart.

Patriarch

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:17:49 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits?

Not here.

To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top.

You mean that nice stable flat stuff that makes such a good substrate
for veneer ?

But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed wood
as part of the construction.

So don't use it. Slide your biscuit jointer sideways to cut a slot,
then stick a solid timber spline in there. Now that's pretty much
"fine furniture" and it barely takes any longer.

--
Smert' spamionam

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:17:49 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits?

Not here.

To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top.

You mean that nice stable flat stuff that makes such a good substrate
for veneer ?

But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed wood
as part of the construction.

So don't use it. Slide your biscuit jointer sideways to cut a slot,
then stick a solid timber spline in there. Now that's pretty much
"fine furniture" and it barely takes any longer.

--
Smert' spamionam

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
. com...
"Todd Fatheree" writes:

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits?

A biscuit is just a loose tenon. A biscuit joiner makes the mortices
for the loose tenon.

scott

That's like saying that 3/4" cherry plywood is the same as solid 3/4"
cherry. Because they serve a similar purpose doesn't mean they're
equivalent. I guess the difference to me is the fact that the biscuit or
plywood is an engineered material. Heck, maybe unless I'm using hide glue
(which I don't), I'm not being consistent on some level.

todd

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
. com...
"Todd Fatheree" writes:

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits?

A biscuit is just a loose tenon. A biscuit joiner makes the mortices
for the loose tenon.

scott

That's like saying that 3/4" cherry plywood is the same as solid 3/4"
cherry. Because they serve a similar purpose doesn't mean they're
equivalent. I guess the difference to me is the fact that the biscuit or
plywood is an engineered material. Heck, maybe unless I'm using hide glue
(which I don't), I'm not being consistent on some level.

todd

"Al Reid" wrote in message
...
"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...
"mac davis" wrote in message
...

As a new convert to biscuit joiners, I'd say that it's the easiest
system I've used,short of drilling and inserting a threaded rod into
them...
Faster, stronger and easier than butt joints and very easy to "mass
produce" the biscuit cuts in all the boards at once to either insure
good alignment (in the case of the experts here) or an interesting
stagger effect for folks like me.. *g*

One thing for sure.. I don't think my dowel points will get much use
now that I have the biscuit jointer.. YMMV


Mac

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed
wood
as part of the construction. I know that no one will ever see it or
even
know about it unless I tell them, but I'll know. If I needed to
increase
the strength and/or help with alignment, I guess I'd be inclined to use
a
cross-grain spline.

todd



No problem at all, philosophical or otherwise. My brother has been making
"Fine Furniture" for a living for over 20 years, He
swears by biscuits. If they're good enough for him, they're good enough
for me.

--
Al Reid

To each his own. Maybe my bar for "fine furniture" is set too high.

todd

"Al Reid" wrote in message
...
"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...
"mac davis" wrote in message
...

As a new convert to biscuit joiners, I'd say that it's the easiest
system I've used,short of drilling and inserting a threaded rod into
them...
Faster, stronger and easier than butt joints and very easy to "mass
produce" the biscuit cuts in all the boards at once to either insure
good alignment (in the case of the experts here) or an interesting
stagger effect for folks like me.. *g*

One thing for sure.. I don't think my dowel points will get much use
now that I have the biscuit jointer.. YMMV


Mac

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed
wood
as part of the construction. I know that no one will ever see it or
even
know about it unless I tell them, but I'll know. If I needed to
increase
the strength and/or help with alignment, I guess I'd be inclined to use
a
cross-grain spline.

todd



No problem at all, philosophical or otherwise. My brother has been making
"Fine Furniture" for a living for over 20 years, He
swears by biscuits. If they're good enough for him, they're good enough
for me.

--
Al Reid

To each his own. Maybe my bar for "fine furniture" is set too high.

todd

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...

To each his own. Maybe my bar for "fine furniture" is set too high.

todd



Obviously. Modern construction techniques and materials does not equate to
Wal-Mart furniture.

--
Al Reid

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...

To each his own. Maybe my bar for "fine furniture" is set too high.

todd



Obviously. Modern construction techniques and materials does not equate to
Wal-Mart furniture.

--
Al Reid

"Al Reid" wrote in message
news:ssK4d.7187$sa.4048@trndny05...

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...

To each his own. Maybe my bar for "fine furniture" is set too high.

todd



Obviously. Modern construction techniques and materials does not equate
to
Wal-Mart furniture.

--
Al Reid

Well, that's your opinion, of course. And there's a lot of ground between
Wal-Mart furniture and "fine-quality" furniture, at least in my mind. For
some reason, there's something intrinsically lame about biscuits in my mind
when applied to a piece of furniture that I expect to last well beyond my
lifetime. And this isn't because I've never used them, because I have. I
have a very serviceable Dewalt biscuit jointer that I've used in the past
and intend to use in the future on the right projects. I just try to avoid
them on something I hope will be an heirloom someday. Oh, well...I'm
certainly not in any position to criticize what other people use, so I'll
just do my thing and other people will do theirs. Certainly not as
important as keeping the distinguished gentleman from Massachusetts out of
the White House.

todd

"Al Reid" wrote in message
news:ssK4d.7187$sa.4048@trndny05...

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...

To each his own. Maybe my bar for "fine furniture" is set too high.

todd



Obviously. Modern construction techniques and materials does not equate
to
Wal-Mart furniture.

--
Al Reid

Well, that's your opinion, of course. And there's a lot of ground between
Wal-Mart furniture and "fine-quality" furniture, at least in my mind. For
some reason, there's something intrinsically lame about biscuits in my mind
when applied to a piece of furniture that I expect to last well beyond my
lifetime. And this isn't because I've never used them, because I have. I
have a very serviceable Dewalt biscuit jointer that I've used in the past
and intend to use in the future on the right projects. I just try to avoid
them on something I hope will be an heirloom someday. Oh, well...I'm
certainly not in any position to criticize what other people use, so I'll
just do my thing and other people will do theirs. Certainly not as
important as keeping the distinguished gentleman from Massachusetts out of
the White House.

todd

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed
wood
as part of the construction.

I'll bet you don't use pocket screws either

I don't have a problem using anything that makes the job easier or faster.
IMO, non-visible accessories don't detract from the beauty of fine
furniture. I admire the guys that do hand cut dovetails. Maybe that is
because I can't do them and therefore appreciate the skills of those that
can. I've made a few pieces and have been proud of the fact that I did them
with no metal fasteners. Where I'd have a dowel exposed, it could have just
as easily been done with a screw that was countersunk and plugged, but I
chose otherwise. Better? Probably not, just more fun to do.

What is important is that you're enjoying the journey, not just the
destination. Keeping traditions alive is a wonderful thing.

I wonder what some of the old masters would do if faced with a modern shop.
Ed

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed
wood
as part of the construction.

I'll bet you don't use pocket screws either

I don't have a problem using anything that makes the job easier or faster.
IMO, non-visible accessories don't detract from the beauty of fine
furniture. I admire the guys that do hand cut dovetails. Maybe that is
because I can't do them and therefore appreciate the skills of those that
can. I've made a few pieces and have been proud of the fact that I did them
with no metal fasteners. Where I'd have a dowel exposed, it could have just
as easily been done with a screw that was countersunk and plugged, but I
chose otherwise. Better? Probably not, just more fun to do.

What is important is that you're enjoying the journey, not just the
destination. Keeping traditions alive is a wonderful thing.

I wonder what some of the old masters would do if faced with a modern shop.
Ed

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed
wood
as part of the construction.

I'll bet you don't use pocket screws either

Sure I do. In fact, I'm about to put some into a footstool I'm making for
the little ones so they can stop fighting over the one they have. Then they
can go on to fighting about something else.

I don't have a problem using anything that makes the job easier or faster.
IMO, non-visible accessories don't detract from the beauty of fine
furniture. I admire the guys that do hand cut dovetails. Maybe that is
because I can't do them and therefore appreciate the skills of those that
can. I've made a few pieces and have been proud of the fact that I did
them
with no metal fasteners. Where I'd have a dowel exposed, it could have
just
as easily been done with a screw that was countersunk and plugged, but I
chose otherwise. Better? Probably not, just more fun to do.

What is important is that you're enjoying the journey, not just the
destination. Keeping traditions alive is a wonderful thing.

I wonder what some of the old masters would do if faced with a modern
shop.
Ed

My deal is that I generally find them unnecessary for the work I've done up
to now. Now, if I was trying to churn out production, that would probably
be a different story and some sacrafice might have to be made for speed.

todd

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed
wood
as part of the construction.

I'll bet you don't use pocket screws either

Sure I do. In fact, I'm about to put some into a footstool I'm making for
the little ones so they can stop fighting over the one they have. Then they
can go on to fighting about something else.

I don't have a problem using anything that makes the job easier or faster.
IMO, non-visible accessories don't detract from the beauty of fine
furniture. I admire the guys that do hand cut dovetails. Maybe that is
because I can't do them and therefore appreciate the skills of those that
can. I've made a few pieces and have been proud of the fact that I did
them
with no metal fasteners. Where I'd have a dowel exposed, it could have
just
as easily been done with a screw that was countersunk and plugged, but I
chose otherwise. Better? Probably not, just more fun to do.

What is important is that you're enjoying the journey, not just the
destination. Keeping traditions alive is a wonderful thing.

I wonder what some of the old masters would do if faced with a modern
shop.
Ed

My deal is that I generally find them unnecessary for the work I've done up
to now. Now, if I was trying to churn out production, that would probably
be a different story and some sacrafice might have to be made for speed.

todd

Exactly what they thought was best. Like putting hand-sawn precious wood
veneer over a cheap substrate.

As biscuits are not structurally important in a glue-up, they wouldn't take
the time to put them in.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed
wood
as part of the construction.


I wonder what some of the old masters would do if faced with a modern
shop.
Ed

Exactly what they thought was best. Like putting hand-sawn precious wood
veneer over a cheap substrate.

As biscuits are not structurally important in a glue-up, they wouldn't take
the time to put them in.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed
wood
as part of the construction.


I wonder what some of the old masters would do if faced with a modern
shop.
Ed

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message ...
"Al Reid" wrote in message
news:ssK4d.7187$sa.4048@trndny05...


Obviously. Modern construction techniques and materials does not equate
to
Wal-Mart furniture.

--
Al Reid

Well, that's your opinion, of course. And there's a lot of ground between
Wal-Mart furniture and "fine-quality" furniture, at least in my mind. For
some reason, there's something intrinsically lame about biscuits in my mind
when applied to a piece of furniture that I expect to last well beyond my
lifetime. And this isn't because I've never used them, because I have. I
have a very serviceable Dewalt biscuit jointer that I've used in the past
and intend to use in the future on the right projects. I just try to avoid
them on something I hope will be an heirloom someday. Oh, well...I'm
certainly not in any position to criticize what other people use, so I'll
just do my thing and other people will do theirs. Certainly not as
important as keeping the distinguished gentleman from Massachusetts out of
the White House.

todd



I'm having a hard time seeing how using biscuits in any way diminishes a "fine furniture" project and causes it not to last beyond
your lifetime.
I'm certainly not advocating the use of particle board, contact paper and knockdown hardware. I think we are talking about using
glue only or glue and biscuits. Oh, well, certainly not that important.

However, I totally and unequivocally agree with your last sentence.
--
Al Reid

How will I know when I get there...
If I don't know where I'm going?

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message ...
"Al Reid" wrote in message
news:ssK4d.7187$sa.4048@trndny05...


Obviously. Modern construction techniques and materials does not equate
to
Wal-Mart furniture.

--
Al Reid

Well, that's your opinion, of course. And there's a lot of ground between
Wal-Mart furniture and "fine-quality" furniture, at least in my mind. For
some reason, there's something intrinsically lame about biscuits in my mind
when applied to a piece of furniture that I expect to last well beyond my
lifetime. And this isn't because I've never used them, because I have. I
have a very serviceable Dewalt biscuit jointer that I've used in the past
and intend to use in the future on the right projects. I just try to avoid
them on something I hope will be an heirloom someday. Oh, well...I'm
certainly not in any position to criticize what other people use, so I'll
just do my thing and other people will do theirs. Certainly not as
important as keeping the distinguished gentleman from Massachusetts out of
the White House.

todd



I'm having a hard time seeing how using biscuits in any way diminishes a "fine furniture" project and causes it not to last beyond
your lifetime.
I'm certainly not advocating the use of particle board, contact paper and knockdown hardware. I think we are talking about using
glue only or glue and biscuits. Oh, well, certainly not that important.

However, I totally and unequivocally agree with your last sentence.
--
Al Reid

How will I know when I get there...
If I don't know where I'm going?

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:17:49 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:


Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed wood
as part of the construction. I know that no one will ever see it or even
know about it unless I tell them, but I'll know. If I needed to increase
the strength and/or help with alignment, I guess I'd be inclined to use a
cross-grain spline.

todd

I think it's a matter of appearances verses skill level...
I'd love to have the skill and knowledge to make things like dovetail
and finger joints, but IMHO, biscuits make the use of fancy joints
more of a trim or appearance thing than a necessary skill to assemble
projects..
I love looking at other folks galleries and seeing the contrasting
color joints and inlays, but I doubt that I'll ever develop the skill
or patience required for those... I guess they're what I consider
"fine" woodworking, a level I'll probably never reach..YMMV


Mac

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:17:49 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:


Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed wood
as part of the construction. I know that no one will ever see it or even
know about it unless I tell them, but I'll know. If I needed to increase
the strength and/or help with alignment, I guess I'd be inclined to use a
cross-grain spline.

todd

I think it's a matter of appearances verses skill level...
I'd love to have the skill and knowledge to make things like dovetail
and finger joints, but IMHO, biscuits make the use of fancy joints
more of a trim or appearance thing than a necessary skill to assemble
projects..
I love looking at other folks galleries and seeing the contrasting
color joints and inlays, but I doubt that I'll ever develop the skill
or patience required for those... I guess they're what I consider
"fine" woodworking, a level I'll probably never reach..YMMV


Mac

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:23:32 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

That's like saying that 3/4" cherry plywood is the same as solid 3/4"
cherry. Because they serve a similar purpose doesn't mean they're
equivalent. I guess the difference to me is the fact that the biscuit or
plywood is an engineered material. Heck, maybe unless I'm using hide glue
(which I don't), I'm not being consistent on some level.

todd

I would have to say that woodworking is an art, not a science.... and
how you approach your at is a very individual thing, which I think
that it needs to be to be creative...

I have a friend that does very good work, who refuses to call anything
that isn't finished with hand rubbed oil furniture... he isn't wrong
or right, just doing his thing..

I bought a biscuit jointer because even with a drill press and dowel
points, my joints always need a bit of alignment and sanding... the
biscuit seems to minimize the problem for me, so I use it...

that's why they make paint in all those different colors, so everyone
can have one they like.. *g*



Mac

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:23:32 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

That's like saying that 3/4" cherry plywood is the same as solid 3/4"
cherry. Because they serve a similar purpose doesn't mean they're
equivalent. I guess the difference to me is the fact that the biscuit or
plywood is an engineered material. Heck, maybe unless I'm using hide glue
(which I don't), I'm not being consistent on some level.

todd

I would have to say that woodworking is an art, not a science.... and
how you approach your at is a very individual thing, which I think
that it needs to be to be creative...

I have a friend that does very good work, who refuses to call anything
that isn't finished with hand rubbed oil furniture... he isn't wrong
or right, just doing his thing..

I bought a biscuit jointer because even with a drill press and dowel
points, my joints always need a bit of alignment and sanding... the
biscuit seems to minimize the problem for me, so I use it...

that's why they make paint in all those different colors, so everyone
can have one they like.. *g*



Mac

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 07:41:42 -0400, "Al Reid"
wrote:

I'm certainly not advocating the use of particle board, contact paper and knockdown hardware.

I'd use knockdown hardware on fine furniture. There's nothing about
"fine" that implies traditional and excludes contemporary.
Portability isn't contradictory to quality.

Besides which, some of the finest furniture ever built (18th century
secretaries and chest-on-chests) used metal knock-down fittings to
split in two for shipping and installation.

--
Smert' spamionam

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 07:41:42 -0400, "Al Reid"
wrote:

I'm certainly not advocating the use of particle board, contact paper and knockdown hardware.

I'd use knockdown hardware on fine furniture. There's nothing about
"fine" that implies traditional and excludes contemporary.
Portability isn't contradictory to quality.

Besides which, some of the finest furniture ever built (18th century
secretaries and chest-on-chests) used metal knock-down fittings to
split in two for shipping and installation.

--
Smert' spamionam

In article , tfk3160
@comcast.net says...
I have made a few table tops using butt joints mainly. I usually only
glue up 2 boards at a time so if I need a total of 4 boards this takes
3 gluing operations. Does anyone have an opinion on whether or not a
biscuit joiner allows you to keep the boards stable and their tops
level during a glue up. My goal is to increase the number of boards I
can glue at once and reduce the time it takes to level the seams out.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Came into this a bit late. Lots of good advice / opinions. I use a T&G
bit in a router table. Provided all boards are the exact same thickness
it works well. Much better than the results I got from biscuits and butt
joints.

--

Phillip Hansen
Skil-Phil Solutions

In article , tfk3160
@comcast.net says...
I have made a few table tops using butt joints mainly. I usually only
glue up 2 boards at a time so if I need a total of 4 boards this takes
3 gluing operations. Does anyone have an opinion on whether or not a
biscuit joiner allows you to keep the boards stable and their tops
level during a glue up. My goal is to increase the number of boards I
can glue at once and reduce the time it takes to level the seams out.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Came into this a bit late. Lots of good advice / opinions. I use a T&G
bit in a router table. Provided all boards are the exact same thickness
it works well. Much better than the results I got from biscuits and butt
joints.

--

Phillip Hansen
Skil-Phil Solutions

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:14:53 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
calmly ranted:

"Al Reid" wrote in message
news:ssK4d.7187$sa.4048@trndny05...

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...

To each his own. Maybe my bar for "fine furniture" is set too high.

todd



Obviously. Modern construction techniques and materials does not equate
to
Wal-Mart furniture.

--
Al Reid

Well, that's your opinion, of course. And there's a lot of ground between
Wal-Mart furniture and "fine-quality" furniture, at least in my mind. For

A lot of ground and an entire ocean.


some reason, there's something intrinsically lame about biscuits in my mind
when applied to a piece of furniture that I expect to last well beyond my
lifetime. And this isn't because I've never used them, because I have. I
have a very serviceable Dewalt biscuit jointer that I've used in the past
and intend to use in the future on the right projects. I just try to avoid
them on something I hope will be an heirloom someday. Oh, well...I'm
certainly not in any position to criticize what other people use, so I'll
just do my thing and other people will do theirs. Certainly not as
important as keeping the distinguished gentleman from Massachusetts out of
the White House.

Let's keep the distinguished(?) gentleman from Texas out of the White
House for another 4 years, shall we? Vote with your conscience.


--------------------------------------------------------
Murphy was an Optimist
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:14:53 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
calmly ranted:

"Al Reid" wrote in message
news:ssK4d.7187$sa.4048@trndny05...

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...

To each his own. Maybe my bar for "fine furniture" is set too high.

todd



Obviously. Modern construction techniques and materials does not equate
to
Wal-Mart furniture.

--
Al Reid

Well, that's your opinion, of course. And there's a lot of ground between
Wal-Mart furniture and "fine-quality" furniture, at least in my mind. For

A lot of ground and an entire ocean.


some reason, there's something intrinsically lame about biscuits in my mind
when applied to a piece of furniture that I expect to last well beyond my
lifetime. And this isn't because I've never used them, because I have. I
have a very serviceable Dewalt biscuit jointer that I've used in the past
and intend to use in the future on the right projects. I just try to avoid
them on something I hope will be an heirloom someday. Oh, well...I'm
certainly not in any position to criticize what other people use, so I'll
just do my thing and other people will do theirs. Certainly not as
important as keeping the distinguished gentleman from Massachusetts out of
the White House.

Let's keep the distinguished(?) gentleman from Texas out of the White
House for another 4 years, shall we? Vote with your conscience.


--------------------------------------------------------
Murphy was an Optimist
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

I handcut all the dovetails for the drawers of a desk. Not half bad if
I do say so myself. I agree with those who assert that that you can't
see (and isn't a shortcut that will shorten the live/durability of the
piece) has a place in the modern construction of "fine furniture"
IMHO.

bob g.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message


Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed
wood
as part of the construction.


I'll bet you don't use pocket screws either

I don't have a problem using anything that makes the job easier or faster.
IMO, non-visible accessories don't detract from the beauty of fine
furniture. I admire the guys that do hand cut dovetails. Maybe that is
because I can't do them and therefore appreciate the skills of those that
can. I've made a few pieces and have been proud of the fact that I did them
with no metal fasteners. Where I'd have a dowel exposed, it could have just
as easily been done with a screw that was countersunk and plugged, but I
chose otherwise. Better? Probably not, just more fun to do.

What is important is that you're enjoying the journey, not just the
destination. Keeping traditions alive is a wonderful thing.

I wonder what some of the old masters would do if faced with a modern shop.
Ed

I handcut all the dovetails for the drawers of a desk. Not half bad if
I do say so myself. I agree with those who assert that that you can't
see (and isn't a shortcut that will shorten the live/durability of the
piece) has a place in the modern construction of "fine furniture"
IMHO.

bob g.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message


Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed
wood
as part of the construction.


I'll bet you don't use pocket screws either

I don't have a problem using anything that makes the job easier or faster.
IMO, non-visible accessories don't detract from the beauty of fine
furniture. I admire the guys that do hand cut dovetails. Maybe that is
because I can't do them and therefore appreciate the skills of those that
can. I've made a few pieces and have been proud of the fact that I did them
with no metal fasteners. Where I'd have a dowel exposed, it could have just
as easily been done with a screw that was countersunk and plugged, but I
chose otherwise. Better? Probably not, just more fun to do.

What is important is that you're enjoying the journey, not just the
destination. Keeping traditions alive is a wonderful thing.

I wonder what some of the old masters would do if faced with a modern shop.
Ed

On 22 Sep 2004 10:47:48 -0700, (tfk) wrote:

I have made a few table tops using butt joints mainly. I usually only
glue up 2 boards at a time so if I need a total of 4 boards this takes
3 gluing operations. Does anyone have an opinion on whether or not a
biscuit joiner allows you to keep the boards stable and their tops
level during a glue up. My goal is to increase the number of boards I
can glue at once and reduce the time it takes to level the seams out.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I made a little cedar tabletop last week, and glued 3 6" planks at
one time by using dowels to keep them aligned. No doubt this would
work for any number of planks, as long as your joints are square and
you don't clamp the piece too hard.

On 22 Sep 2004 10:47:48 -0700, (tfk) wrote:

I have made a few table tops using butt joints mainly. I usually only
glue up 2 boards at a time so if I need a total of 4 boards this takes
3 gluing operations. Does anyone have an opinion on whether or not a
biscuit joiner allows you to keep the boards stable and their tops
level during a glue up. My goal is to increase the number of boards I
can glue at once and reduce the time it takes to level the seams out.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I made a little cedar tabletop last week, and glued 3 6" planks at
one time by using dowels to keep them aligned. No doubt this would
work for any number of planks, as long as your joints are square and
you don't clamp the piece too hard.

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:23:23 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message

Is there anyone besides me that has a philosophical problem with using
biscuits? To me, having biscuits in a piece of "fine furniture" is like
using plywood for the top. Don't get me wrong...I'm no master craftsman
(yet). But there's just something wrong in my mind with using pressed
wood
as part of the construction.

I'll bet you don't use pocket screws either

I don't have a problem using anything that makes the job easier or faster.
IMO, non-visible accessories don't detract from the beauty of fine
furniture. I admire the guys that do hand cut dovetails. Maybe that is
because I can't do them and therefore appreciate the skills of those that
can. I've made a few pieces and have been proud of the fact that I did them
with no metal fasteners. Where I'd have a dowel exposed, it could have just
as easily been done with a screw that was countersunk and plugged, but I
chose otherwise. Better? Probably not, just more fun to do.

What is important is that you're enjoying the journey, not just the
destination. Keeping traditions alive is a wonderful thing.

I wonder what some of the old masters would do if faced with a modern shop.
Ed

Ten to one says most of them would break out in a big old grin, and
latch onto anything and everything that works well and makes the job
easier. Because something is "tradtional" does not always mean that
it is better. Quality is Quality, regardless of the method used to
produce it, and I just can't believe that a well-jointed, solidly
built piece of furniture with a fine finish and attention to detail
made with some manufactured materials and power tools could be
considered somehow inferior to an equivilent piece of work crafted in
a more tradtional fashion. After all, I doubt those old masters
turned up their noses at chisels because back in the mists of time,
people had to use broken bits of rock to make things.

Sure, there's plenty of fun to be had sticking to nostalgic ways of
doing things, but there's nothing wrong with using what you've got!