On 6/13/14, 12:20 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
wrote:


Crap! I read that ten times (both last night and this morning) and
still read it as "stay away". Can't even blame it on the (lack of)
coffee.

Don't I know how that goes! It has something to do with age, or diminished
sexual capability, or something like that...


Change subject line to "drill/drive[h]er"


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Thursday, June 12, 2014 5:41:50 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
wrote in message



On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:39:52 -0400, "dadiOH"

wrote:



I was unable to find either online. Can you give me a link?

.



Weekly ad and the specific items...



http://weeklyshoppingad.com/lowes/



http://www.lowes.com/pd_596956-67702...ill&facetInfo=



http://www.lowes.com/pd_506283-70-DC...l&fac etInfo=





--



dadiOH

____________________________



Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?

Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?

Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

Thanks for this. The internets was useful today.

I think I am going in a different direction for a bit. I have an ancient Makita 14.4 ni cad (which I thought was working well for me, but reading this makes me realize how clueless I am) that will pull the balls of a rhino. I spent $329 for it about 9 years ago. While I have killed a few batteries, the smart charger does well with itself, and the helical cut bronze gears in the drill make it solid as the day I bought it. The chuck is an American made Jacobs with carbide liners and it will still grip a 1/16" to 1/2" with the same precision.

It has drilled thousands of holes, and driven many times that of screws. But the drill is large and weighs a bunch. Still, I will be undone if anything happens to it as it is my cabinet hanging monster.

It still works fine. But I am taking a look at this tool set for the first time.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/2034068...hop_This_Combo

My electrician uses it for all kinds of drilling, screw driving, and has even use it with a wire brush to clean up fixtures. He uses the hell out of both the drill and the driver every single day. He is on his third set. According to him, they last about 2 1/2 to 3 years, and then he simply tosses them. I have never had any of my DeWalt or Hitachi drills last longer than that.

I have several entry door replacements coming up, and I will see if it will bore a hole in a 1 3/4 door. If it will, I am in. I have to have a really light touch with the rhino killer when running in all the door hinge screws, and there will be a few hundred of them if I get all the work I have bid.

At any rate, I have used this little impact driver, and it is pretty sweet. I don't need one of those often so it might be the ticket for me. In fact, about the only time I could use one is when I am driving the 5" screws I use for roof repairs on occasion.

Looking at the DeWalt, Hitachi and Porter Cable offerings, they are all homeowner grade tools. If am going to get something that is more toy-like that (really... a $100 and you think you are getting a semi professional/professional tool?) I will get one with a store warranty like Ryobi. I haven't owned their tools before, but if my electrician likes them, I might, too. At $50 bucks a tool I am not in so deep that I will be ****ed off if they only last a year of good use.

OTOH, if I was going to buy a "professional grade" tool, I would scout the pawn shops for some of the older drills and saws. If I was buying new, I would buy Ridgid. I have two 12v drills that are not only well made, but have been excellent performers for years. I have 2 5" ROSs that have been literally abused sanding fascia to prep for paint, sanding wood floors for refinish, and used for any other dirty sanding jobs. Replaced a pad on one, that's it. They are about 10 years old and have outlasted two Bosch sanders that weren't used nearly as hard. I have two little rattler finishing sanders from Ridgid, and they both work great.

My Tim Taylor days are long gone. These days I try to get an exact match of the tool to the job and don't buy more than I need "just in case" of have some ridiculous fantasies of the job stalling out if my drill quits. If this little Ryobi can charge in 15 to 20 minutes, I can drive up the job, plug in the charger, get out the saw horses and set up the tools and I will be ready to drill. If I can use the drill to drive a couple of hundred 3/4" screws in and out all day to fit hinges, then I will be a happy guy.

YMMV.

Robert

I'm predicting ten years for equivalent powered batteries to be about
the size of a thimble.

Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has to do with the
electrons in the shells that are available to change place and be used as
electricity. Even if you get all of them to change place with 100%
efficiency (which will also never happen) there is a limit to the amount of
charge you can get from a battery.
--
Jim in NC


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wrote

It still works fine. But I am taking a look at this tool set for the
first time.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/2034068...hop_This_Combo

My electrician uses it for all kinds of drilling, screw driving, and has
even use it with a wire brush to clean up fixtures. He uses the hell out
of both the drill and the driver every single day. He is on his third
set. According to him, they last about 2 1/2 to 3 years, and then he
simply tosses them. I have never had any of my DeWalt or Hitachi drills
last longer than that.

The guy I was working for had that line of tools. I loved them. The
smaller battery is OK for running some screws in, but for heavy drilling or
sawing, you want the 4000mAh pack, for length of run and higher pull of
amps. Drilled 5/8th holes in 2x pressure treated, and ran portable skill
saws and sawzalls all day long. Never had a lack of power. They also have
a huge line of tools using the same system, all the way up to leaf blowers
and weed eaters, to saws, jigsaws, sawzalls and impact drivers. That is a
huge plus for me. Also have a charging station to charge a bunch of
batteries at one time. You can't go wrong, IMHO. They truly are as tough
as industrial/professional tools.

Now, would I take a Milwaukee line over these? You bet. Not anything else
though, and not if I had to pay for it!
--
Jim in NC




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On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 19:56:02 -0400, "Morgans"
Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has to do with the
electrons in the shells that are available to change place and be used as
electricity. Even if you get all of them to change place with 100%
efficiency (which will also never happen) there is a limit to the amount of
charge you can get from a battery.

Maybe under our current technology, but that can change.
But, if we're both still alive in ten years and enough of my memory is
intact, I'll email to say "told you so".

Morgans wrote:
wrote

It still works fine. But I am taking a look at this tool set for the
first time.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/2034068...hop_This_Combo

My electrician uses it for all kinds of drilling, screw driving, and
has even use it with a wire brush to clean up fixtures. He uses the
hell out of both the drill and the driver every single day. He is
on his third set. According to him, they last about 2 1/2 to 3
years, and then he simply tosses them. I have never had any of my
DeWalt or Hitachi drills last longer than that.

The guy I was working for had that line of tools. I loved them. The
smaller battery is OK for running some screws in, but for heavy
drilling or sawing, you want the 4000mAh pack, for length of run and
higher pull of amps. Drilled 5/8th holes in 2x pressure treated, and
ran portable skill saws and sawzalls all day long. Never had a lack
of power. They also have a huge line of tools using the same system,
all the way up to leaf blowers and weed eaters, to saws, jigsaws,
sawzalls and impact drivers. That is a huge plus for me. Also have
a charging station to charge a bunch of batteries at one time. You
can't go wrong, IMHO. They truly are as tough as
industrial/professional tools.
Now, would I take a Milwaukee line over these? You bet. Not
anything else though, and not if I had to pay for it!

My son got one of those kits, but with two other tools in the kit. Can't
remember what the two others were but I think one was a circular saw - or
maybe a sawzall. Either way - it was back in the day when I worked at HD
and I had found out one night - as we were all leaving the store after
closing, that this set was up in the racking and that it was scheduled to go
down to a penny at the end of the next day (going down to a penny is the
trigger to throw the stuff away). It had somehow gotten
lost/forgotten/something... and was just collecting dust up in the racks.
The clock had continued to tick on this set and at that point it was down to
something like $20 (automatic markdowns driven by the clock), or something
really stupid like that. Someone called my son and told him to have his ass
waiting at the door to the store the very moment that they opened. He did,
and he walked out of the store with that fine catch in hand. Brand new, not
a return, and full warranty. You'd be surprised how often stuff like that
happens.

The best deal we ever got - oops... he ever got, was when I showed up for
work one day and discovered a pallet with 76 bags of lawn fertilizer with
weed killer on display in outside garden, with a sign advertising 1cent
each. Somebody screwed up because as I said - at a penny the stuff is
supposed to be in the compactor, but they had actually put this on the floor
with the price. Well - again, someone called my son and told him to get his
ass over to the store. So he did. Bought 76 bags of fertilizer for $ 0.76
plus tax. Someone had moved the pallet before he arrived and it was a bit
of a longer haul to get it to his truck - from somewhere in the back of
outside garden. I just don't understand that - nobody ever goes back
there... I of course, was quite upset because it took more battery power to
bring that pallet up from way back there, and load it in his truck with a
Reach. I'm very corporate minded that way, ya know.


--

-Mike-

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 19:56:02 -0400, "Morgans"
Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has to do
with the electrons in the shells that are available to change place
and be used as electricity. Even if you get all of them to change
place with 100% efficiency (which will also never happen) there is a
limit to the amount of charge you can get from a battery.

Maybe under our current technology, but that can change.
But, if we're both still alive in ten years and enough of my memory is
intact, I'll email to say "told you so".

Give up on that one Dave. Hell - our memories are already the second thing
to go on us - what hope can we possibly have in 10 more years?

--

-Mike-

On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 21:13:52 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Give up on that one Dave. Hell - our memories are already the second thing
to go on us - what hope can we possibly have in 10 more years?

No problem. I've email myself and dated it to go out in ten years.

On 6/13/14, 7:53 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 19:56:02 -0400, "Morgans"
Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has to do
with the electrons in the shells that are available to change place
and be used as electricity. Even if you get all of them to change
place with 100% efficiency (which will also never happen) there is
a limit to the amount of charge you can get from a battery.

Maybe under our current technology, but that can change. But, if
we're both still alive in ten years and enough of my memory is
intact, I'll email to say "told you so".


Not unless you're talking about something different than a battery.
If we're talking batteries.... well, there's a reason the dry cell has
barely changed in size in the last century.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 6/13/2014 6:56 PM, Morgans wrote:

I'm predicting ten years for equivalent powered batteries to be about
the size of a thimble.

Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has to do with
the electrons in the shells that are available to change place and be
used as electricity. Even if you get all of them to change place with
100% efficiency (which will also never happen) there is a limit to the
amount of charge you can get from a battery.


A few here said about the same thing about the SawStop. It's just
vaporware.....IIRC is what was said... LOL

On 6/13/2014 9:15 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/13/14, 7:53 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 19:56:02 -0400, "Morgans"
Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has to do
with the electrons in the shells that are available to change place
and be used as electricity. Even if you get all of them to change
place with 100% efficiency (which will also never happen) there is
a limit to the amount of charge you can get from a battery.

Maybe under our current technology, but that can change. But, if
we're both still alive in ten years and enough of my memory is
intact, I'll email to say "told you so".


Not unless you're talking about something different than a battery.
If we're talking batteries.... well, there's a reason the dry cell has
barely changed in size in the last century.



I'm thinking way too much stuff runs on a hand full of sizes.

On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:14:27 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/13/2014 6:56 PM, Morgans wrote:

I'm predicting ten years for equivalent powered batteries to be about
the size of a thimble.

Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has to do with
the electrons in the shells that are available to change place and be
used as electricity. Even if you get all of them to change place with
100% efficiency (which will also never happen) there is a limit to the
amount of charge you can get from a battery.


A few here said about the same thing about the SawStop. It's just
vaporware.....IIRC is what was said... LOL

Huh? What physical or chemical limits did SawStop go up against?

On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:15:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/13/2014 9:15 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/13/14, 7:53 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 19:56:02 -0400, "Morgans"
Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has to do
with the electrons in the shells that are available to change place
and be used as electricity. Even if you get all of them to change
place with 100% efficiency (which will also never happen) there is
a limit to the amount of charge you can get from a battery.

Maybe under our current technology, but that can change. But, if
we're both still alive in ten years and enough of my memory is
intact, I'll email to say "told you so".


Not unless you're talking about something different than a battery.
If we're talking batteries.... well, there's a reason the dry cell has
barely changed in size in the last century.



I'm thinking way too much stuff runs on a hand full of sizes.

Over the last number of years the current capacity of a simple AA or a
simple 9 volt battery has increased significantly - particularly in
the rechargeable versions I remember 80mah 9 volt ni-cads. 350mah Nimh
are now pretty standard, with Lithiums going over 600mah

On 6/13/14, 10:15 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/13/2014 9:15 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/13/14, 7:53 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 19:56:02 -0400, "Morgans"
Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has to
do with the electrons in the shells that are available to
change place and be used as electricity. Even if you get all
of them to change place with 100% efficiency (which will also
never happen) there is a limit to the amount of charge you can
get from a battery.

Maybe under our current technology, but that can change. But, if
we're both still alive in ten years and enough of my memory is
intact, I'll email to say "told you so".


Not unless you're talking about something different than a
battery. If we're talking batteries.... well, there's a reason the
dry cell has barely changed in size in the last century.



I'm thinking way too much stuff runs on a hand full of sizes.


The basic volt/amp sizes have barely changed in since the invention off
the dry cell.
Simple physics/chemistry. Heck, even electric cars are basically a
zillion AAs tied together.

The size of a 1.5volt dry cell at a certain amperage has remained the
same for a century, no matter the material inside.

That can't be said of many other technologies over the past 100 years.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 6/13/14, 11:55 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:15:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/13/2014 9:15 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/13/14, 7:53 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 19:56:02 -0400, "Morgans"
Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has
to do with the electrons in the shells that are available to
change place and be used as electricity. Even if you get all
of them to change place with 100% efficiency (which will also
never happen) there is a limit to the amount of charge you
can get from a battery.

Maybe under our current technology, but that can change. But,
if we're both still alive in ten years and enough of my memory
is intact, I'll email to say "told you so".


Not unless you're talking about something different than a
battery. If we're talking batteries.... well, there's a reason
the dry cell has barely changed in size in the last century.



I'm thinking way too much stuff runs on a hand full of sizes.

Over the last number of years the current capacity of a simple AA or
a simple 9 volt battery has increased significantly - particularly
in the rechargeable versions I remember 80mah 9 volt ni-cads. 350mah
Nimh are now pretty standard, with Lithiums going over 600mah


I'll give you that. But I just don't see a logarithmic scale happening
here, like you see in other technologies.
If the chemistry of the dry cell was as advancing as say, the speed of
microprocessors, we'd have drills that you only charged once a year. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 00:55:58 -0400, wrote:
Over the last number of years the current capacity of a simple AA or a
simple 9 volt battery has increased significantly - particularly in
the rechargeable versions I remember 80mah 9 volt ni-cads. 350mah Nimh
are now pretty standard, with Lithiums going over 600mah

I'm thinking the possibility of transmitted power, such as
electromagnet beamed power. Small receiver on a drill and off you go.
Of course, some advances need to be done, but what I'm talking about
already exists in it's early stages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIpUqlhXNFQ

On Friday, June 13, 2014 7:08:12 PM UTC-5, Morgans wrote:

Now, would I take a Milwaukee line over these? You bet. Not anything else

though, and not if I had to pay for it!

I understand. That's why my old Makita is going nowhere. I know what it will do, how hard it will work, and how dependable it is.

I had not looked at anything Ryobi in too many years to count as I thought of them as casual user tools, not anything to depend on. Again, if it hadn't been for my electrician, I still would not have bothered to take a look. I wouldn't mind a light weight drill though, one that could run up a few screws, drill a couple of holes as needed in routine small repairs. I don't always need to kill an ant with a sledge hammer.

And while the name of Milwaukee has come up, it might interest folks to know the drills are made in the same factory by the same folks that make Ridgid. I found this out from the Milwaukee tool rep, confirmed it later with another Milwaukee tool rep, then had it confirmed by the tool specialist working for Home Depot.

Robert

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 00:16:10 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 6/13/14, 11:55 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:15:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/13/2014 9:15 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/13/14, 7:53 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 19:56:02 -0400, "Morgans"
Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has
to do with the electrons in the shells that are available to
change place and be used as electricity. Even if you get all
of them to change place with 100% efficiency (which will also
never happen) there is a limit to the amount of charge you
can get from a battery.

Maybe under our current technology, but that can change. But,
if we're both still alive in ten years and enough of my memory
is intact, I'll email to say "told you so".


Not unless you're talking about something different than a
battery. If we're talking batteries.... well, there's a reason
the dry cell has barely changed in size in the last century.



I'm thinking way too much stuff runs on a hand full of sizes.

Over the last number of years the current capacity of a simple AA or
a simple 9 volt battery has increased significantly - particularly
in the rechargeable versions I remember 80mah 9 volt ni-cads. 350mah
Nimh are now pretty standard, with Lithiums going over 600mah


I'll give you that. But I just don't see a logarithmic scale happening
here, like you see in other technologies.
If the chemistry of the dry cell was as advancing as say, the speed of
microprocessors, we'd have drills that you only charged once a year. :-)
And if you hit something they wouldn't go through, they'd either snap
your wrist like a nono-toothpick or throw youhalfway to mars with
their uber-torque.
"if automobiles had advanced as quickly as computers, by 2000 we'd
have been driving at twice the speed of light while riding on the
head of a pin - in 1990 that would have been the speed of sound on a
postage stamp"

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 01:32:19 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 00:55:58 -0400, wrote:
Over the last number of years the current capacity of a simple AA or a
simple 9 volt battery has increased significantly - particularly in
the rechargeable versions I remember 80mah 9 volt ni-cads. 350mah Nimh
are now pretty standard, with Lithiums going over 600mah

I'm thinking the possibility of transmitted power, such as
electromagnet beamed power. Small receiver on a drill and off you go.
Of course, some advances need to be done, but what I'm talking about
already exists in it's early stages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIpUqlhXNFQ
And if you listen to the detractors of wifi and other EMI, we'll all
sport 3rd eyeballs, and be dying of cancer by age 12.

wrote in message


And while the name of Milwaukee has come up, it might interest folks to
know the drills are made in the same factory by the same folks that make
Ridgid. I found this out from the Milwaukee tool rep, confirmed it later
with another Milwaukee tool rep, then had it confirmed by the tool
specialist working for Home Depot.


My opinion of Ridgid just went up a notch. Oh, alright, two notches

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 6/13/2014 10:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:14:27 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/13/2014 6:56 PM, Morgans wrote:

I'm predicting ten years for equivalent powered batteries to be about
the size of a thimble.

Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has to do with
the electrons in the shells that are available to change place and be
used as electricity. Even if you get all of them to change place with
100% efficiency (which will also never happen) there is a limit to the
amount of charge you can get from a battery.


A few here said about the same thing about the SawStop. It's just
vaporware.....IIRC is what was said... LOL

Huh? What physical or chemical limits did SawStop go up against?

It had mentality barriers to get through.

On 6/14/2014 6:10 AM, wrote:
On Friday, June 13, 2014 7:08:12 PM UTC-5, Morgans wrote:

Now, would I take a Milwaukee line over these? You bet. Not anything else

though, and not if I had to pay for it!

I understand. That's why my old Makita is going nowhere. I know what it will do, how hard it will work, and how dependable it is.

I had not looked at anything Ryobi in too many years to count as I thought of them as casual user tools, not anything to depend on. Again, if it hadn't been for my electrician, I still would not have bothered to take a look. I wouldn't mind a light weight drill though, one that could run up a few screws, drill a couple of holes as needed in routine small repairs. I don't always need to kill an ant with a sledge hammer.

And while the name of Milwaukee has come up, it might interest folks to know the drills are made in the same factory by the same folks that make Ridgid. I found this out from the Milwaukee tool rep, confirmed it later with another Milwaukee tool rep, then had it confirmed by the tool specialist working for Home Depot.

Robert


3

I saw a HD commercial on TV a couple of days ago where the guy was
swamping and interchanging attachments and IIRC batteries between Ridgid
and Ryobi. I suspect that Ryobi builds both.

On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 12:29:17 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/13/2014 10:38 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:14:27 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/13/2014 6:56 PM, Morgans wrote:

I'm predicting ten years for equivalent powered batteries to be about
the size of a thimble.

Nope. Never happen. It is physics, and chemistry. It has to do with
the electrons in the shells that are available to change place and be
used as electricity. Even if you get all of them to change place with
100% efficiency (which will also never happen) there is a limit to the
amount of charge you can get from a battery.


A few here said about the same thing about the SawStop. It's just
vaporware.....IIRC is what was said... LOL

Huh? What physical or chemical limits did SawStop go up against?

It had mentality barriers to get through.

That's a lot easier than rewriting physics.

wrote:

I think I am going in a different direction for a bit. I have an
ancient Makita 14.4 ni cad (which I thought was working well for me,
but reading this makes me realize how clueless I am) that will pull
the balls of a rhino. I spent $329 for it about 9 years ago.
While I have killed a few batteries, the smart charger does well with
itself, and the helical cut bronze gears in the drill make it solid as
the day I bought it. The chuck is an American made Jacobs with
carbide liners and it will still grip a 1/16" to 1/2" with the same
precision.

It has drilled thousands of holes, and driven many times that of
screws. But the drill is large and weighs a bunch. Still, I will be
undone if anything happens to it as it is my cabinet hanging monster.

It still works fine. But I am taking a look at this tool set for the
first time.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/2034068...hop_This_Combo

My electrician uses it for all kinds of drilling, screw driving, and
has even use it with a wire brush to clean up fixtures. He uses the
hell out of both the drill and the driver every single day. He is on
his third set. According to him, they last about 2 1/2 to 3 years,
and then he simply tosses them. I have never had any of my DeWalt or
Hitachi drills last longer than that.

I have several entry door replacements coming up, and I will see if it
will bore a hole in a 1 3/4 door. If it will, I am in. I have to
have a really light touch with the rhino killer when running in all
the door hinge screws, and there will be a few hundred of them if I
get all the work I have bid.
snip?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think Harbor Freight might be on to something?

The above would be a classic HF item.

Lew




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On Saturday, June 14, 2014 12:32:09 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

I saw a HD commercial on TV a couple of days ago where the guy was

swamping and interchanging attachments and IIRC batteries between Ridgid

and Ryobi. I suspect that Ryobi builds both.

Except that Ryobi doesn't build Ryobi. According to the Techtronics Industry of North America, the manufacture (quoting verbatim Jason Swanson, Director of Communications)Milwaukee, Ryobi, AEG, Ridgid, Dirt Devil, Homelite, and many more. These names are badges for tools and TIN makes tools to the specs of the name holder. They also make tools for Craftsman, and others. Most of these names were bought by holding groups as investments with absolutely no concern wit the quality of the tools they produce.

A quick trio to some of the TIN websites and their affiliates will easily confirm this nasty arrangement. But this also applies to the holding groups that own Jet, Powermatic, and all the brands of hand tools scooped up by the folks that bought Porter Cable, Bosch tools, etc. Although there are no doubt a few companies that make their own tools now, I don't know of any mass produced tools.

I have no doubt that some of the accessories from Ryobi will fit Ridgid and the other way around. It makes sense; why not have interchangeability for accessories that provide service for infrequent use? Most professionals buy only single use tools, but a homeowner may have occasional use for many operations that these lightweight accessories would be a perfect fit. I have to say after looking at HD this morning I didn't see any interchangeable accessories for the respective hand drill lines.

I learn something every day. 40+ years ago when I started in the trades, names like Festool, AEG, Metabo, Bosch, Festo, Fein, etc. weren't available and weren't affordable if they were. King of the hill back then was Metabo as I think (not sure) they were the first well respected hand power tool company from Europe to make a push into the US. Stuff only a young man could dream of. Then came the other brands on their heels.

I didn't know at the time that these companies would become chess pieces on the game of business with whole businesses bought and sold at will. I loved the romance of advertising that sold "old world tool making brought into the 21st century".

This thread got my interest up as to who owns who these days, and I was stunned to find the giant conglomerate AEG had spun off their tool division. See if these look familiar:

http://www.aeg-powertools.eu/

It gets worse. I found that the much vaunted Festool group of tools is now owned by yet another holding company:

http://tts-company.lt/en/history

Soo... I guess I am saying that it all boils down to the contractors specs to the jobber/manufacturer to get the product they want their name on. The whole tool business these days is nothing more than an inbred bunch of accountants/investors/efficiency engineers that are working to maximize the dollar from manufacturing widgets.

All of that being said, I must say that in talking to the Ryobi rep and the Milwaukee rep at the same time on Contractor's Day at HD was enlightening. Both have sold tools for other companies and had been reps for years. Of the choices at the store, for a contractor like me both said they would buy Ridgid for hard use. Two reasons: First, some Milwaukee products will out perform some of the Ridgid products in extreme conditions, but the return/failure rate was about the same which makes sense at the guts are essentially the same. Second, the Ridgid brand has that great warranty that no one else offers, and both said that was impossible to beat.

Speaking of batteries, just a couple of years ago it was found that most new Li batteries were interchangeable between Ryobi and Ridgid. If that is the case, that makes it even more attractive to me, a buy that might drop a tool off a 2nd story ladder or have it stolen. If the batteries interchange, I will be gladly looking at this type of replacement should the tool itself fail after the manufacturer's three year warranty from Ryobi.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RIDGID-18-Vo...item2ed2e62217

Robert

On 6/14/2014 5:11 PM, wrote:
The whole tool business these days is nothing more than an inbred bunch of accountants/investors/efficiency engineers that are working to maximize the dollar from manufacturing widgets.

Amen, and AKA: "price point engineering".

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Saturday, June 14, 2014 5:30:50 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:

The whole tool business these days is nothing more than an inbred bunch of accountants/investors/efficiency engineers that are working to maximize the dollar from manufacturing widgets.



Amen, and AKA: "price point engineering".

Testify! Applied to pretty much everything these days, I have found myself less and less concerned with branding.



On Saturday, June 14, 2014 5:01:26 PM UTC-5, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Do you think Harbor Freight might be on to something?



The above would be a classic HF item.

Absolutely. I have commented over the years that I have steadily watched the quality of HF tools go up and the quality of higher priced, badged tools go down. And with HF's in store exchange guarantee, it is hard to beat them, too. The only problem I have with HF is that some of their tools are really pretty good and the service life to price is an excellent ratio. But some of their tools just aren't that good. But they are expanding so fast and improving so much they just might make a credible name for themselves across the board one day.

Robert

Leon wrote:


I saw a HD commercial on TV a couple of days ago where the guy was
swamping and interchanging attachments and IIRC batteries between
Ridgid and Ryobi. I suspect that Ryobi builds both.

I have not seen that commercial and I had no idea that any manufacturer's
batteries were interchangable, but I'm not surprised. Milwaukee, Ryobi,
Ridgid (and more...) are all manufactured by TTI for One World Technologies.
I'm pretty sure I have that right. It gets hard to stay abreast of who owns
who, who manufactures for who, etc, but I'm pretty sure that is current
information. So - it wouldn't surprise me if there isn't a new trend
beginning that allows for interchangeability.

Being manufactured by the same company implies no other similarities between
the tools though.

--

-Mike-

" wrote in
:

*snip*

I have no doubt that some of the accessories from Ryobi will fit
Ridgid and the other way around. It makes sense; why not have
interchangeability for accessories that provide service for infrequent
use? Most professionals buy only single use tools, but a homeowner
may have occasional use for many operations that these lightweight
accessories would be a perfect fit. I have to say after looking at HD
this morning I didn't see any interchangeable accessories for the
respective hand drill lines.

*snip*

Robert

Black & Decker had an interesting drill concept a short time ago. I
bought one of their interchangable drills last year, and thought the idea
was pretty good. It had a module that was driven by a single motor, so
if you wanted to change from drill to driver, you popped off the drill
module and popped on the driver module. It seemed to work alright, but I
took it back because the motor/gears sounded like it was grinding rocks.

I never did try the impact driver module, based on the gear noises I knew
I was taking the thing back and getting something else.

I think someone here mentioned it and was impressed with the demo unit he
had.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 15 Jun 2014 00:23:24 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

" wrote in
:

*snip*

I have no doubt that some of the accessories from Ryobi will fit
Ridgid and the other way around. It makes sense; why not have
interchangeability for accessories that provide service for infrequent
use? Most professionals buy only single use tools, but a homeowner
may have occasional use for many operations that these lightweight
accessories would be a perfect fit. I have to say after looking at HD
this morning I didn't see any interchangeable accessories for the
respective hand drill lines.

*snip*

Robert

Black & Decker had an interesting drill concept a short time ago. I
bought one of their interchangable drills last year, and thought the idea
was pretty good. It had a module that was driven by a single motor, so
if you wanted to change from drill to driver, you popped off the drill
module and popped on the driver module. It seemed to work alright, but I
took it back because the motor/gears sounded like it was grinding rocks.

I never did try the impact driver module, based on the gear noises I knew
I was taking the thing back and getting something else.

I think someone here mentioned it and was impressed with the demo unit he
had.

Puckdropper
I don't even consider a Black and Decker tool newer than about 30
years to be a tool. In my experience they are pretty much all JUNK.

wrote

Absolutely. I have commented over the years that I have steadily watched
the quality of HF tools go up and the quality of higher priced, badged
tools go down. And with HF's in store exchange guarantee, it is hard to
beat them, too. The only problem I have with HF is that some of their
tools are really pretty good and the service life to price is an excellent
ratio. But some of their tools just aren't that good. But they are
expanding so fast and improving so much they just might make a credible
name for themselves across the board one day.

Yep, I feel the same way. It is an interesting business model. Open up a
bunch of stores. Sell tools at a super discounted price and expand quickly.
Essentially open up a bunch of stores selling crap. Then...... , once you
have people coming into the stores, start to improve the quality of the
tools. Which is the exact reversal of other tool company's approach.

I was looking at some of the reviews recently of some of their power tools.
Years ago, there were complaints about a tool was just fine except for one
part. Then the complaints stopped. Apparently, they fixed that one part.
I think that Harbor Freight deal with their customer base as one big
research and development lab. Make a tool cheap and see what the people
say. Then order an improvement based on the complaints. Over time, the
tool improves

I am not sure I approve of that model. But as a business-customer service
model. It is probably better than trading on an old reputation for quality
while making crappier and crappier tools. Like you say Robert, more and
more tools are meeting somewhere in the middle.

As far as cordless tools are concerned, most people I have talked to have
indicated that they are buying new tools based on the batteries they now
have. Makes sense the the big companies sell packages of tools and
batteries to get you in the door. After that, you don't want to make an
investment in new batteries and chargers. So you buy that brand for other
tools

I have been following this discussion and went and looked at the Ryobi
tools. They have a number of 40 volt tools for working in the yard.
Including lawnmowers and a chain saw. One lawnmower carried two batteries.
So when one battery runs out, you just swap them and finish the job. And an
eclectic chainsaw for landscaping or the odd emergency, that is perfect.
Obviously can't do a lot of cutting, but for small jobs, just perfect.

I haven't made the investment in a lot of cordless tools. But with the
cheaper versions of these tools getting better and better and the Lithium
ion batteries becoming so prevalent, I may not be able to hold off much
longer.

wrote:


I don't even consider a Black and Decker tool newer than about 30
years to be a tool. In my experience they are pretty much all JUNK.

That's pretty much my thinking. 30 plus years ago I bought a B&D Industrial
3/8 Reversible Drill Motor. That thing was unstopable. It did use some
nylon gears inside which made me quite surprised that it performed as well
as it did for as long as it did. Finally though, it gave up the ghost and I
replaced it with DeWalt. We had a B&D repair center right down in Syracuse
at the time, and it was the recommendation of the guys that worked there
that made me abandon the B&D line at the time. My old drill was quite a
respected drill for the time, but they couldn't get parts anymore and they
strongly cautioned against any of the current line - more and more nylon.
Can't get parts, not intended to last for anything but occassional use, etc.

--

-Mike-

Lee Michaels wrote:


I haven't made the investment in a lot of cordless tools. But with
the cheaper versions of these tools getting better and better and the
Lithium ion batteries becoming so prevalent, I may not be able to
hold off much longer.

For someone who does not need to rely on his tools for his job, and can
therefore take a small chance on things, I'd consider HF for cordless drills
these days. I don't own any of them so I have no first hand experience, but
I know several people now who have purchased them. They work - that simple.
I don't know how they compare to some of the other names that have been
talked about in this thread, as far as torque goes, or even longevity, but
the price is certainly a lot better.

Most of us don't need a cordless drill to bore 1" holes through 6x6's all
day long - and some may never need to do that. Like everything else - it
all depends on the need. The HF drills will drive 3" deck screws all day
long, day after day. I've seen that - though like I say, that's a qualified
statement... I've only seen it for a few days here and there. I think I'd
trust them for that kind of need, based on what I've seen.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

wrote:


I don't even consider a Black and Decker tool newer than about 30
years to be a tool. In my experience they are pretty much all JUNK.

That's pretty much my thinking. 30 plus years ago I bought a B&D
Industrial 3/8 Reversible Drill Motor. That thing was unstopable. It
did use some nylon gears inside which made me quite surprised that it
performed as well as it did for as long as it did. Finally though, it
gave up the ghost and I replaced it with DeWalt. We had a B&D repair
center right down in Syracuse at the time, and it was the
recommendation of the guys that worked there that made me abandon the
B&D line at the time. My old drill was quite a respected drill for
the time, but they couldn't get parts anymore and they strongly
cautioned against any of the current line - more and more nylon. Can't
get parts, not intended to last for anything but occassional use, etc.


You can't go by brand names any more. It all depends on where the giant
holding company decides to shift that brand today.

While I won't seek out B&D, if someone gives a good review I'm willing to
listen. Sometimes even a cost-conscious brand (i.e. cheap) puts out a
good tool once in a while.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 15 Jun 2014 11:32:13 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

wrote:


I don't even consider a Black and Decker tool newer than about 30
years to be a tool. In my experience they are pretty much all JUNK.

That's pretty much my thinking. 30 plus years ago I bought a B&D
Industrial 3/8 Reversible Drill Motor. That thing was unstopable. It
did use some nylon gears inside which made me quite surprised that it
performed as well as it did for as long as it did. Finally though, it
gave up the ghost and I replaced it with DeWalt. We had a B&D repair
center right down in Syracuse at the time, and it was the
recommendation of the guys that worked there that made me abandon the
B&D line at the time. My old drill was quite a respected drill for
the time, but they couldn't get parts anymore and they strongly
cautioned against any of the current line - more and more nylon. Can't
get parts, not intended to last for anything but occassional use, etc.


You can't go by brand names any more. It all depends on where the giant
holding company decides to shift that brand today.

While I won't seek out B&D, if someone gives a good review I'm willing to
listen. Sometimes even a cost-conscious brand (i.e. cheap) puts out a
good tool once in a while.

Puckdropper
I think it's been a few decades since B&D put their name on a decent
tool - might have been the odd "accident" that I'm not aware of. And
their small appliances don't fare much better.

On 6/15/2014 2:53 PM, wrote:

I think it's been a few decades since B&D put their name on a decent
tool - might have been the odd "accident" that I'm not aware of. And
their small appliances don't fare much better.

They got into the appliance business by buying the GE division back in
the 70's. They were moving most tools to high volume consumer instead
of the pro lines.

On Sunday, June 15, 2014 6:10:32 AM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:

For someone who does not need to rely on his tools for his job, and can

therefore take a small chance on things, I'd consider HF for cordless drills

these days. I don't own any of them so I have no first hand experience, but

I know several people now who have purchased them. They work - that simple.

I don't know how they compare to some of the other names that have been

talked about in this thread, as far as torque goes, or even longevity, but

the price is certainly a lot better.

Hard to tell what to think of their cordless drills these days. I have a couple of non professional friends that use HF drills, and they seem "OK". I think the shortcoming is in the actual torque generated and the battery life. When I found out that one of my buds was going to screw the fence pickets on his new fence (why... why do people do that?) I asked him to let me know how many 1 1/2" screws it would drive. IIRC, it was around 100. Not awful, but not good for an 18V drill.

The real problem though, was the fact that it took 6 - 8 hours to charge the batteries if they weren't completely depleted. They didn't hold a charge for more than about 10 days, and if he started with a totally dead battery it was 12 hours for a full charge. So that ruled them out as job site tools; to have a battery run down and then be unusable for the rest of the day just can't work.

But to be fair, that was about 3 years ago, so they may have upped their game on those drills as they have with so many other of their tools.


Most of us don't need a cordless drill to bore 1" holes through 6x6's all

day long - and some may never need to do that. Like everything else - it

all depends on the need. The HF drills will drive 3" deck screws all day

long, day after day.

Most of us "professionals" don't have the project requirement that beats the crap out of tools day after day. Sometimes you do; for example, if I am replacing shingle roofing it isn't unusual for one of my guns to shoot nearly 5,000 nails a day! So that gun is something I spend the money on. But the only other tool I have that gets the same amount of use is my circular saw. Being brought up in the trades as a site carpenter that was the main weapon in my arsenal.

Even if a tool goes down these days there are so many big box store around that most can easily be replaced. Even my "professional only" tool outlets don't sell many premium tools these days, but specialize in carrying industry specific tools, not premium products. And since it is usually more expensive to repair a tool than it is worth, most broken tools wind up in the trash anyway of the guy that bought it feels he got his money's worth.

And since now and then I lend tools to the guys that work for me, I really don't want to invest much in job site tools. Most guys these days don't take care of tools and frankly (speaking as a carpenter/woodworker), don't know how to use them correctly. So sometimes from that aspect alone, less is more.

Robert

wrote:
On Sunday, June 15, 2014 6:10:32 AM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:

For someone who does not need to rely on his tools for his job, and can

therefore take a small chance on things, I'd consider HF for cordless drills

these days. I don't own any of them so I have no first hand experience, but

I know several people now who have purchased them. They work - that simple.

I don't know how they compare to some of the other names that have been

talked about in this thread, as far as torque goes, or even longevity, but

the price is certainly a lot better.
Hard to tell what to think of their cordless drills these days. I have a couple of non professional friends that use HF drills, and they seem "OK". I think the shortcoming is in the actual torque generated and the battery life. When I found out that one of my buds was going to screw the fence pickets on his new fence (why... why do people do that?) I asked him to let me know how many 1 1/2" screws it would drive. IIRC, it was around 100. Not awful, but not good for an 18V drill.

The real problem though, was the fact that it took 6 - 8 hours to charge the batteries if they weren't completely depleted. They didn't hold a charge for more than about 10 days, and if he started with a totally dead battery it was 12 hours for a full charge. So that ruled them out as job site tools; to have a battery run down and then be unusable for the rest of the day just can't work.

I'm just seconding this post (as I have a HF drill).

It lacks torque, and the battery is "high maintenance" as indicated above.

I used my Bosch driver this weekend, and the meter on the battery
indicated "full charge" even though I haven't charged it since last fall.

As someone who doesn't use a drill everyday, that sort of handiness is
appreciated!

Bill



But to be fair, that was about 3 years ago, so they may have upped their game on those drills as they have with so many other of their tools.


Most of us don't need a cordless drill to bore 1" holes through 6x6's all

day long - and some may never need to do that. Like everything else - it

all depends on the need. The HF drills will drive 3" deck screws all day

long, day after day.
Most of us "professionals" don't have the project requirement that beats the crap out of tools day after day. Sometimes you do; for example, if I am replacing shingle roofing it isn't unusual for one of my guns to shoot nearly 5,000 nails a day! So that gun is something I spend the money on. But the only other tool I have that gets the same amount of use is my circular saw. Being brought up in the trades as a site carpenter that was the main weapon in my arsenal.

Even if a tool goes down these days there are so many big box store around that most can easily be replaced. Even my "professional only" tool outlets don't sell many premium tools these days, but specialize in carrying industry specific tools, not premium products. And since it is usually more expensive to repair a tool than it is worth, most broken tools wind up in the trash anyway of the guy that bought it feels he got his money's worth.

And since now and then I lend tools to the guys that work for me, I really don't want to invest much in job site tools. Most guys these days don't take care of tools and frankly (speaking as a carpenter/woodworker), don't know how to use them correctly. So sometimes from that aspect alone, less is more.

Robert

wrote

And while the name of Milwaukee has come up, it might interest folks to
know the drills are made in the same factory by the same folks that make
Ridgid. I found this out from the Milwaukee tool rep, confirmed it later
with another Milwaukee tool rep, then had it confirmed by the tool
specialist working for Home Depot.

VERy interesting, indeed. Worth checking out. I have to wonder if the same
engineering and quality material goes into the Ridgid as the Milwaukee.
I would be pretty confident they are significantly different, but perhaps
the Ridgid is still worth an extra look.
--
Jim in NC


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