I tried a Nupower special offer from CPC and although it is supposed to be
24V it is absolutely gutless and the battery lasts about three minutes. It
was cheap, though.

Is it worth getting something like the B&Q PP Pro at £30, or should I go for
a quality make.

I was hoping not to spend more then about £50 or so.


--
Chris Melluish

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:43:05 +0000 (UTC), "Chris Melluish"
wrote:

I tried a Nupower special offer from CPC and although it is supposed to be
24V it is absolutely gutless and the battery lasts about three minutes. It
was cheap, though.

Is it worth getting something like the B&Q PP Pro at £30, or should I go for
a quality make.

I was hoping not to spend more then about £50 or so.

What do you want to do with it, Chris?

Really to get a quality cordless drill, you need to be thinking of
something in excess of £100. It is better to go for a lower voltage
quality make rather than a higher voltage cheap one. You have just
seen a case of what happens. Cheap batteries are used and they are
just not up to the job.

At the £50 price point, a corded drill is going to be more effective -
so one strategy is to go for a corded drill for the heavier work and a
smaller cordless for when you need it.




--

..andy

"Chris Melluish" wrote in message
...
I tried a Nupower special offer from CPC and although it is supposed to be
24V it is absolutely gutless and the battery lasts about three minutes. It
was cheap, though.

Is it worth getting something like the B&Q PP Pro at £30, or should I go
for
a quality make.

I was hoping not to spend more then about £50 or so.

Screwfix do a 12v Ryobi with two batteries. Only down side is 3 hours
charge time.
They also do a 18V for £60 if you can stretch again only 3 hr charge.

Wickes are worth a look as they are having a sale. £72 gets you a pro
quality 2 battery 15.5 v drill/hammer 2 hr charge. I see Wickes now sell
the Kress drill (rebadged Wickes) with the angle chuck attachment for £95.

Wickes also have a DIY range (in black). Some decent models amongst them.

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:43:05 +0000 (UTC), "Chris Melluish"
wrote:

I tried a Nupower special offer from CPC and although it is supposed to
be
24V it is absolutely gutless and the battery lasts about three minutes.
It
was cheap, though.

Is it worth getting something like the B&Q PP Pro at £30, or should I go
for
a quality make.

I was hoping not to spend more then about £50 or so.

What do you want to do with it, Chris?

Really to get a quality cordless drill, you need to be thinking of
something in excess of £100.

Matt, not so. It just gave the Wickes models at under £100. I suppose they
don't register on your power tool radar because they rebaged tools from
branded makes. Got to have the designer label man. I bet you wear a Rolex
watch as well. Do you have a crocodile on your shirts as well?

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Chris Melluish" wrote in message
...
I tried a Nupower special offer from CPC and although it is supposed to
be
24V it is absolutely gutless and the battery lasts about three minutes.
It
was cheap, though.

Is it worth getting something like the B&Q PP Pro at £30, or should I go
for
a quality make.

I was hoping not to spend more then about £50 or so.

Screwfix do a 12v Ryobi with two batteries. Only down side is 3 hours
charge time.
They also do a 18V for £60 if you can stretch again only 3 hr charge.

Wickes are worth a look as they are having a sale. £72 gets you a pro
quality 2 battery 15.5 v drill/hammer 2 hr charge. I see Wickes now sell
the Kress drill (rebadged Wickes) with the angle chuck attachment for £95.

Wickes also have a DIY range (in black). Some decent models amongst them.

depends on what you are drilling as I have a cheap 18v job from B&Q and its
ok for most jobs but forget concrete just to slow

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:43:05 +0000 (UTC), "Chris Melluish"
wrote:

I tried a Nupower special offer from CPC and although it is supposed to be
24V it is absolutely gutless and the battery lasts about three minutes. It
was cheap, though.

Is it worth getting something like the B&Q PP Pro at £30, or should I go for
a quality make.

I was hoping not to spend more then about £50 or so.

I got the PProo - it was crap, I took it back, 7 hour recharge, no
overcharge protection, drilled about 2 holes before needing a
recharge.

I then went for the DeWalt 18v Hammer Drill driver, with dual
barreries. I got it on import from the US, at arround 160 quid all in.
I leave one battery in the charger, one on the drill. I bolted down my
roof with it, which uses 170mmx10mm coach screws.

I am very very pleased with it - I only wish it would brew up as well.

Rick

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Really to get a quality cordless drill, you need to be thinking of
something in excess of £100.

Matt, not so. It just gave the Wickes models at under £100.

Can anyone translate Zog?

--
*Sorry, I don't date outside my species.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:13:39 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:43:05 +0000 (UTC), "Chris Melluish"
wrote:

I tried a Nupower special offer from CPC and although it is supposed to
be
24V it is absolutely gutless and the battery lasts about three minutes.
It
was cheap, though.

Is it worth getting something like the B&Q PP Pro at £30, or should I go
for
a quality make.

I was hoping not to spend more then about £50 or so.

What do you want to do with it, Chris?

Really to get a quality cordless drill, you need to be thinking of
something in excess of £100.

Matt, not so. It just gave the Wickes models at under £100.

You'd better discuss that with Matt. I was talking about
quality.....


--

..andy

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:13:39 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:43:05 +0000 (UTC), "Chris Melluish"
wrote:

I tried a Nupower special offer from CPC and although it is supposed
to
be
24V it is absolutely gutless and the battery lasts about three
minutes.
It
was cheap, though.

Is it worth getting something like the B&Q PP Pro at £30, or should I
go
for
a quality make.

I was hoping not to spend more then about £50 or so.

What do you want to do with it, Chris?

Really to get a quality cordless drill, you need to be thinking of
something in excess of £100.

Matt, not so. I just gave the Wickes models at under £100.

You'd better discuss that with Matt. I was talking about
quality.....

Matt you were not on about quality, you were on about brand labels. I am on
about quality.

Matt just look at the Kress detachable angle chuck drill in Wickes, a
quality item indeed.. You can have 5 of those for a Festool.

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:17:00 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:13:39 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:43:05 +0000 (UTC), "Chris Melluish"
wrote:

I tried a Nupower special offer from CPC and although it is supposed
to
be
24V it is absolutely gutless and the battery lasts about three
minutes.
It
was cheap, though.

Is it worth getting something like the B&Q PP Pro at £30, or should I
go
for
a quality make.

I was hoping not to spend more then about £50 or so.

What do you want to do with it, Chris?

Really to get a quality cordless drill, you need to be thinking of
something in excess of £100.

Matt, not so. I just gave the Wickes models at under £100.

You'd better discuss that with Matt. I was talking about
quality.....

Matt you were not on about quality, you were on about brand labels.

I don't know about Matt, but if you look back at what I said, product
names weren't mentioned at all until you talked about Wickes.

I am on
about quality.

You're certainly on something.



Matt just look at the Kress detachable angle chuck drill in Wickes, a
quality item indeed.. You can have 5 of those for a Festool.


.... and this has what relevance exactly?


--

..andy

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:17:00 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:13:39 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:43:05 +0000 (UTC), "Chris Melluish"
wrote:

I tried a Nupower special offer from CPC and although it is
supposed
to
be
24V it is absolutely gutless and the battery lasts about three
minutes.
It
was cheap, though.

Is it worth getting something like the B&Q PP Pro at £30, or should
I
go
for
a quality make.

I was hoping not to spend more then about £50 or so.

What do you want to do with it, Chris?

Really to get a quality cordless drill, you need to be thinking of
something in excess of £100.

Matt, not so. I just gave the Wickes models at under £100.

You'd better discuss that with Matt. I was talking about
quality.....

Matt you were not on about quality, you were on about brand labels.

I don't know about Matt, but if you look back at what I said, product
names weren't mentioned at all until you talked about Wickes.

The Wickes 15.6v drill is one of these one battery fits all setup.
Interchangeable batteries amongst about 6 different tools. So, you can
build up the set as time goes on.

I am on
about quality.

You're certainly on something.

Quality Matt, quality, that is what I am about.

Matt just look at the Kress detachable
angle chuck drill in Wickes, a
quality item indeed.. You can have 5 of
those for a Festool.

... and this has what relevance exactly?

The Wickes/Kress is a "class" act. Made in Switzerland, two 2.0 Ah Japanese
batteries and an angle chuck attachment which swivels and locks to any
position and lift a collar and the chucks just slip off...drills, driver
heads and bits can be fitted directly into the drill with no chucks
fitted... for less than £100 at the mo'. Look at a DeWalt angle drill and
it is £166 alone. The Kress/Wickes feels good too. This is two drills in a
high quality product. No contest. About time this drill was sold here.

See Matt, you should have asked me first.
http://www.kress-elektrik.de/en/prod...?categorie=443

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:18:09 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:




The Wickes 15.6v drill is one of these one battery fits all setup.
Interchangeable batteries amongst about 6 different tools. So, you can
build up the set as time goes on.

Until they switch suppliers....



The Wickes/Kress is a "class" act. Made in Switzerland,

made in a variety of places. I've checked.

two 2.0 Ah Japanese
batteries and an angle chuck attachment which swivels and locks to any
position and lift a collar and the chucks just slip off...drills, driver
heads and bits can be fitted directly into the drill with no chucks
fitted... for less than £100 at the mo'. Look at a DeWalt angle drill and
it is £166 alone.



The Kress/Wickes feels good too. This is two drills in a
high quality product. No contest. About time this drill was sold here.

I'm sure it will be as soon as there is a taker. Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.



See Matt, you should have asked me first.
http://www.kress-elektrik.de/en/prod...?categorie=443


You'd better ask Matt about that.


--

..andy

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:18:09 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

The Wickes 15.6v drill is one of these one
battery fits all setup. Interchangeable batteries
amongst about 6 different tools. So, you can
build up the set as time goes on.

Until they switch suppliers....

The the OP. Wickes do a DIY 15.6v drill for £40 that may fitt his bill. 2
yr guarantee.

The Wickes/Kress is a "class" act. Made in Switzerland,

made in a variety of places. I've checked.

I have checked and this drill is made In Switzerland by Kress.

two 2.0 Ah Japanese
batteries and an angle chuck attachment
which swivels and locks to any
position and lift a collar and the chucks
just slip off...drills, driver heads and
bits can be fitted directly into the drill
with no chucks fitted... for less than
£100 at the mo'. Look at a DeWalt
angle drill and it is £166 alone.

The Kress/Wickes feels good too. This
is two drills in a high quality product.
No contest. About time this drill was sold here.

Also a drill bit or driver bit can be inserted right into the angle
attachment without using a lengthy chuck, with the ability to get in tighter
than a DeWalt or Makita angle drill. A quality dual purpose product. Look
at the Kress URL I gave and enlarge the piccs of it, the breakdown shows it
all with the driver bits in.

Wickes are not selling it properly that is clear, as most will just think it
is a normal drill/driver and not a versatile angle drill as well. If they
did this would take off, even at £130, its normal selling price. If it
fails it is because the seller doesn't appreciate its qualities and doesn't
sell it on them. The punter clearly has to know what it can do.

I'm sure it will be as soon as there is a taker.

Go to any large Wickes and they are display.

Please explain though, if this is really
such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in
the UK to a private label deal with Wickes.
It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

Wickes shift some power tools. They are a national chain, who are now owned
by TP, so rebadged Kresses may be seen in their stores, probably at inflated
prices

Kress probably can only make so many products. Kress are a medium sized
quality maker who do quite a bit of R&D. They have to, to survive in this
market. They patented the quick change chuck system on this drill. This is a
drill I have always admired having seen them in Germany.

See Matt, you should have asked me first.

http://www.kress-elektrik.de/en/prod...?categorie=443

You'd better ask Matt about that.

Well Matt as I said, you should have asked me.

Andy Hall wrote:
Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

What has this got to do with the quality of the product? They may have
restricted their route to market in the UK for a number of reasons. Lack of
marketing budget, Wickes being the only taker and demanding an exclusive
deal, the link with TP which makes the combined Wickes/Travis Perkins
potential huge, limited production capacity, whatever.

You appear to judge quality only on label & price. Are the Swiss known as
low quality producers like we assume the Chinese must be?

Dave

"david lang" wrote in message
. uk...
Andy Hall wrote:
Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

What has this got to do with the quality of the product? They may have
restricted their route to market in the UK for a number of reasons. Lack
of
marketing budget, Wickes being the only taker and demanding an exclusive
deal, the link with TP which makes the combined Wickes/Travis Perkins
potential huge, limited production capacity, whatever.

You appear to judge quality only on label & price. Are the Swiss known as
low quality producers like we assume the Chinese must be?

Kress make 700,000 tools a year. Small by the millions produced by the big
names, which is many millions.

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:56:31 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

What has this got to do with the quality of the product?

I didn't say that it did have anything to do with the *quality* of the
product; only that if it is so good (i.e. attractive to somebody
buying) then why have they restricted themselves?

They may have
restricted their route to market in the UK for a number of reasons. Lack of
marketing budget, Wickes being the only taker and demanding an exclusive
deal, the link with TP which makes the combined Wickes/Travis Perkins
potential huge, limited production capacity, whatever.

There is an obvious inconsistency. In every other country, bar the
UK, they are selling their products with their own label through
subsidiaries and distributors. The UK isn't listed.

It's very odd to do a private label deal that excludes selling one's
own product under one's own label.

People make strange business decisions sometimes.


You appear to judge quality only on label & price.

Hardly. I go to a great deal of trouble when looking at and choosing
tools. See thread on visit to Axminster exhibition as one example.

Some manufacturers make consistently good tools of a given type - e.g.
Makita on drills, Metabo on sanders and so on.

Others have one-hit wonders in a sea of mediochrity, and yet others
have the occasional miss in a generally good stable of products.

Are the Swiss known as
low quality producers like we assume the Chinese must be?


I use origin as only one factor - it's not always reliable in any
direction. It's rather stupid to suggest that because something is
Swiss that it's bound to be good, or Chinese and bound to be bad. What
is important, is the product itself, its design and quality, accuracy,
ergonomics, proper service and spares.

--

..andy

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:56:31 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

What has this got to do with the quality of the product?

I didn't say that it did have anything to do with the *quality* of the
product; only that if it is so good (i.e. attractive to somebody
buying) then why have they restricted themselves?

They may have
restricted their route to market in the UK for a number of reasons. Lack
of
marketing budget, Wickes being the only taker and demanding an exclusive
deal, the link with TP which makes the combined Wickes/Travis Perkins
potential huge, limited production capacity, whatever.

There is an obvious inconsistency. In every other country, bar the
UK, they are selling their products with their own label through
subsidiaries and distributors. The UK isn't listed.

Matt, it was on on their German site and the name Wickes came up I see the
USA is not listed yet Kress rebadge Porter Cable tools over there.

It's very odd to do a private label deal that excludes selling one's
own product under one's own label.

People make strange business decisions sometimes.

They may be locked in to a long contract wit Wickes, and it is in their
interest to keep it that way. They did sell under Kress until BMJ Power,
their agent, went bust. They were in all major towns and cities.

You appear to judge quality only on label & price.

Hardly.

Matt, you do.

I go to a great deal of trouble when looking at and choosing
tools.

You don't you buy the most expensive with a designer label.

See thread on visit to Axminster exhibition as one example.

Some manufacturers make consistently good tools of a given type - e.g.
Makita on drills,

One poster here had to send a Makita back.

Metabo on sanders and so on.

Others have one-hit wonders in a sea of mediochrity, and yet others
have the occasional miss in a generally good stable of products.

Are the Swiss known as
low quality producers like we assume the Chinese must be?

I use origin as only one factor

Matt, you don't.

- it's not always reliable in any
direction. It's rather stupid to suggest that because something is
Swiss that it's bound to be good, or Chinese and bound to be bad. What
is important, is the product itself, its design and quality, accuracy,
ergonomics, proper service and spares.

Why do you keep slagging Chinese products?

In message ,

[big big snip - sorry to all]

In the time it takes you two boys to argue about it, most other people
would have done it, wore it out, bought another, painted it, oiled it,
greased it, mixed it and finished it.

Meanwhile you two are still standing at the checkout arguing about
whether to pay by switch or delta.

Woo bloody hoo.
Someone

Andy Hall wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:56:31 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

What has this got to do with the quality of the product?

I didn't say that it did have anything to do with the *quality* of the
product; only that if it is so good (i.e. attractive to somebody
buying) then why have they restricted themselves?

They may have
restricted their route to market in the UK for a number of reasons. Lack of
marketing budget, Wickes being the only taker and demanding an exclusive
deal, the link with TP which makes the combined Wickes/Travis Perkins
potential huge, limited production capacity, whatever.

There is an obvious inconsistency. In every other country, bar the
UK, they are selling their products with their own label through
subsidiaries and distributors. The UK isn't listed.

It's very odd to do a private label deal that excludes selling one's
own product under one's own label.

They do sell under the Kress badge as well in Wickes stores.

It's too late in the day for me to write a whole essay but without
denying that the DeWalts and Makitas of this world do make good
products a lot of the pricing is about marketing - price discrimination
and knowing your target buyers - not about the quality.
That's why I don't write off Ryobi stuff because the parent company
want to stick it in some marketing bracket. Many tools contain the same
quality of components because it just isnt economical to create varying
levels of them.

On 17 Nov 2005 17:39:19 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:56:31 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

What has this got to do with the quality of the product?

I didn't say that it did have anything to do with the *quality* of the
product; only that if it is so good (i.e. attractive to somebody
buying) then why have they restricted themselves?

They may have
restricted their route to market in the UK for a number of reasons. Lack of
marketing budget, Wickes being the only taker and demanding an exclusive
deal, the link with TP which makes the combined Wickes/Travis Perkins
potential huge, limited production capacity, whatever.

There is an obvious inconsistency. In every other country, bar the
UK, they are selling their products with their own label through
subsidiaries and distributors. The UK isn't listed.

It's very odd to do a private label deal that excludes selling one's
own product under one's own label.

They do sell under the Kress badge as well in Wickes stores.

It's too late in the day for me to write a whole essay but without
denying that the DeWalts and Makitas of this world do make good
products a lot of the pricing is about marketing - price discrimination
and knowing your target buyers - not about the quality.

Pricing point is certainly a factor, as is production volume and all
of the associated costs of proper quality control, sparing, service
and so on.

However, one has only to pick up, feel and operate a range of products
from different manufacturers to figure out that there are considerable
quality and usability differences.

For example, last week I picked up and looked over products by
"unknown Chinese", Ryobi, Makita and Festool. There were
substantial and obvious differences in build quality, how the
mechanisms worked, balance and control. These correlated completely
to price points and I could have done the same comparison blind
folded.

That's why I don't write off Ryobi stuff because the parent company
want to stick it in some marketing bracket. Many tools contain the same
quality of components because it just isnt economical to create varying
levels of them.

There may well be economies of scale of certain components from a
given manufacturer or manufacturing house.

I don't write off Ryobi either. In comparison with the entry level
products, much of what they have is better. However, in picking up
one of their drills last week, running it, feeling how the clutch and
gearbox operated and so on (somebody demonstrating one jammed the
clutch), it is clear that Makita, Bosch (blue), Hitachi etc. are in a
different league.

This isn't to say that Ryobi stuff is worthless, just that the
limitations and general feel would not be acceptable to me, so I
wouldn't buy any of their products that I have seen so far.

I certainly don't try to kid myself that this is a product range from
a Japanese manufacturer with some implied level of quality control,
design and backup. Equally, I don't kid myself that Makita isn't
making tools in PRC. I decide on what I can look at and touch, the
design, the feel and the spares and service backup if I were to have
any issues.

Others may have different purchasing criteria and requirements.

--

..andy

david lang wrote:
You appear to judge quality only on label & price. Are the Swiss known as
low quality producers like we assume the Chinese must be?

Do we assume the Chinese produce all low quality stuff? Some of it
might be very good, surely?

Andy Hall wrote:

It's very odd to do a private label deal that excludes selling one's
own product under one's own label.

I would say it was exactly the opposite IME. Anyone signing up for an own
label product would want exclusivity in a given area/region/country.

Dave

Chris Bacon wrote:

Do we assume the Chinese produce all low quality stuff? Some of it
might be very good, surely?

I don't assume that. A nation that invented gunpowder, the wheelbarrow, the
compass, the clock, kites, iron casting, paper, the blast furnace,
Spaghetti, and built the great wall obviously aren't incapable.

Dave

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:56:31 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

What has this got to do with the quality of the product?

I didn't say that it did have anything to do with the *quality* of the
product; only that if it is so good (i.e. attractive to somebody
buying) then why have they restricted themselves?

They may have
restricted their route to market in the UK for a number of reasons.
Lack
of
marketing budget, Wickes being the only taker and demanding an exclusive
deal, the link with TP which makes the combined Wickes/Travis Perkins
potential huge, limited production capacity, whatever.

There is an obvious inconsistency. In every other country, bar the
UK, they are selling their products with their own label through
subsidiaries and distributors. The UK isn't listed.

Matt, it was on on their German site and the name Wickes came up I see
the
USA is not listed yet Kress rebadge Porter Cable tools over there.

It's very odd to do a private label deal that excludes selling one's
own product under one's own label.

People make strange business decisions sometimes.

They may be locked in to a long contract wit Wickes, and it is in their
interest to keep it that way. They did sell under Kress until BMJ Power,
their agent, went bust. They were in all major towns and cities.

You appear to judge quality only on label & price.

Hardly.

Matt, you do.

I go to a great deal of trouble when looking at and choosing
tools.

You don't you buy the most expensive with a designer label.

See thread on visit to Axminster exhibition as one example.

Some manufacturers make consistently good tools of a given type - e.g.
Makita on drills,

One poster here had to send a Makita back.

That was me. I sent two Makitas back. I have now got a Hitachi which I am
very happy with.

--
Chris Melluish

In article , Andy Hall
wrote:
I'm sure it will be as soon as there is a taker. Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

Commercially I would have thought it a very nice arrangement: you sell
whole lorry loads of tools to one customer whose PoS systems can
(presumably) feed back to you exactly what is selling. You have none of
the costs of marketing, support, distribution etc so presumably can
agree a win/win price.

The risk of course is the same as that of all supermarket suppliers and
anyone else who has a dominant customer. If they choose to drop you it
is bad news.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

i would go with a Ridgid dude. they have lifetime warranties. that is
just unheard of in cordless powertools. but i would buy it now before
they quit that deal.

"Chris Melluish" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:56:31 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private
label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

What has this got to do with the quality of the product?

I didn't say that it did have anything to do with the *quality* of the
product; only that if it is so good (i.e. attractive to somebody
buying) then why have they restricted themselves?

They may have
restricted their route to market in the UK for a number of reasons.
Lack
of
marketing budget, Wickes being the only taker and demanding an
exclusive
deal, the link with TP which makes the combined Wickes/Travis Perkins
potential huge, limited production capacity, whatever.

There is an obvious inconsistency. In every other country, bar the
UK, they are selling their products with their own label through
subsidiaries and distributors. The UK isn't listed.

Matt, it was on on their German site and the name Wickes came up I see
the
USA is not listed yet Kress rebadge Porter Cable tools over there.

It's very odd to do a private label deal that excludes selling one's
own product under one's own label.

People make strange business decisions sometimes.

They may be locked in to a long contract wit Wickes, and it is in their
interest to keep it that way. They did sell under Kress until BMJ
Power,
their agent, went bust. They were in all major towns and cities.

You appear to judge quality only on label & price.

Hardly.

Matt, you do.

I go to a great deal of trouble when looking at and choosing
tools.

You don't you buy the most expensive with a designer label.

See thread on visit to Axminster exhibition as one example.

Some manufacturers make consistently good tools of a given type - e.g.
Makita on drills,

One poster here had to send a Makita back.

That was me. I sent two Makitas back. I have now got a Hitachi which I am
very happy with.

Good on you. I much prefer Hitachi. Their core drills are superb. Makita
is designer label garbage. Good enough in most cases but way over the top
in price/performance.

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:43:05 +0000 (UTC), "Chris Melluish"
wrote:

I tried a Nupower special offer from CPC
and although it is supposed to be
24V it is absolutely gutless and the battery
lasts about three minutes. It
was cheap, though.

Is it worth getting something like the B&Q
PP Pro at £30, or should I go for
a quality make.

I was hoping not to spend more then about £50 or so.

What do you want to do with it, Chris?

Really to get a quality cordless drill, you need
to be thinking of something in excess of £100.

********, Matt!!!! Designer label Matt again.

Go for the Kress/Wickes angle drill attachment job at £95. Two drills in
one. Knocks cobs off a Makita all around, in price, quality and
functionality.

Matt is brainwahsed. Sad but true.

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:56:42 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

It's very odd to do a private label deal that excludes selling one's
own product under one's own label.

I would say it was exactly the opposite IME. Anyone signing up for an own
label product would want exclusivity in a given area/region/country.

Dave


No..... That isn't how private labelling is meant to work.


The point is that the organising forming the sales channel (Wickes in
this example), takes a standard product from a manufacturer typically
with only cosmetic customisation such as colour, label and the
instruction book.

The manufacturer would expect to be able to sell the same product in
its own livery in the same geographical territory, and indeed to offer
it on the same cosmetic relabelling basis to other similar channels.

Clearly the manufacturer is not going to expect to be able to sell a
Wickes labelled product in Homebase, but they should be in a position
to sell the same thing in orange and green to Homebase.

If they have restricted themselves to only one private label deal and
no own presence in a geographical territory, then my conclusion would
be that they are not very commercially adept, and that raises other
concerns.


--

..andy

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:53:19 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , Andy Hall
wrote:
I'm sure it will be as soon as there is a taker. Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

Commercially I would have thought it a very nice arrangement: you sell
whole lorry loads of tools to one customer whose PoS systems can
(presumably) feed back to you exactly what is selling. You have none of
the costs of marketing, support, distribution etc so presumably can
agree a win/win price.

It could be if that is covering the potential market - clearly it's
not because Wickes does not have dominant market share in anything.


The risk of course is the same as that of all supermarket suppliers and
anyone else who has a dominant customer. If they choose to drop you it
is bad news.

This is my point. They appear to have locked themselves into some
deal that restricts their route to market through one player who can
only cover a small part of the market.

Not good business at all .....



--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:56:42 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

It's very odd to do a private label deal that excludes selling one's
own product under one's own label.

I would say it was exactly the opposite IME. Anyone signing up for an
own
label product would want exclusivity in a given area/region/country.

Dave


No..... That isn't how private labelling is meant to work.


The point is that the organising forming the sales channel (Wickes in
this example), takes a standard product from a manufacturer typically
with only cosmetic customisation such as colour, label and the
instruction book.

The manufacturer would expect to be able to sell the same product in
its own livery in the same geographical territory, and indeed to offer
it on the same cosmetic relabelling basis to other similar channels.

Clearly the manufacturer is not going to expect to be able to sell a
Wickes labelled product in Homebase, but they should be in a position
to sell the same thing in orange and green to Homebase.

If they have restricted themselves to only one private label deal and
no own presence in a geographical territory, then my conclusion would
be that they are not very commercially adept, and that raises other
concerns.

Like selling 700,000 first class products a year in 60 countries.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:53:19 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , Andy Hall
wrote:
I'm sure it will be as soon as there is a taker. Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

Commercially I would have thought it a very nice arrangement: you sell
whole lorry loads of tools to one customer whose PoS systems can
(presumably) feed back to you exactly what is selling. You have none of
the costs of marketing, support, distribution etc so presumably can
agree a win/win price.

It could be if that is covering the potential market - clearly it's
not because Wickes does not have dominant market share in anything.

They sell a shed load of power tools though. The groups is TP and Wickes.
Which is a hell of a lot of trade outlets.

The risk of course is the same as that of all supermarket suppliers and
anyone else who has a dominant customer. If they choose to drop you it
is bad news.

This is my point. They appear to have locked themselves into some
deal that restricts their route to market through one player who can
only cover a small part of the market.

Not good business at all .....

Wickes and TP small? The point is that top quality Kress products are
available in the UK and highly competitive prices. I always look at what
Wickes sells before looking at others.

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:41:28 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:



If they have restricted themselves to only one private label deal and
no own presence in a geographical territory, then my conclusion would
be that they are not very commercially adept, and that raises other
concerns.

Like selling 700,000 first class products a year in 60 countries.


Like why limit the addressable market in the UK?


--

..andy

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:45:55 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:53:19 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , Andy Hall
wrote:
I'm sure it will be as soon as there is a taker. Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

Commercially I would have thought it a very nice arrangement: you sell
whole lorry loads of tools to one customer whose PoS systems can
(presumably) feed back to you exactly what is selling. You have none of
the costs of marketing, support, distribution etc so presumably can
agree a win/win price.

It could be if that is covering the potential market - clearly it's
not because Wickes does not have dominant market share in anything.

They sell a shed load of power tools though. The groups is TP and Wickes.
Which is a hell of a lot of trade outlets.

Undoubtedly, but that wasn't the point being made.


The risk of course is the same as that of all supermarket suppliers and
anyone else who has a dominant customer. If they choose to drop you it
is bad news.

This is my point. They appear to have locked themselves into some
deal that restricts their route to market through one player who can
only cover a small part of the market.

Not good business at all .....

Wickes and TP small? The point is that top quality Kress products are
available in the UK and highly competitive prices. I always look at what
Wickes sells before looking at others.

I can imagine.

--

..andy

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:45:55 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:53:19 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , Andy Hall aka
Matt wrote:
I'm sure it will be as soon as there is a taker. Please explain
though, if this is really such a good product range that they appear
to have restricted their route to market in the UK to a private
label
deal with Wickes. It doesn't hang together unless somebody is
commercially very naive.

Commercially I would have thought it a very nice arrangement: you sell
whole lorry loads of tools to one customer whose PoS systems can
(presumably) feed back to you exactly what is selling. You have none
of
the costs of marketing, support, distribution etc so presumably can
agree a win/win price.

It could be if that is covering the potential market - clearly it's
not because Wickes does not have dominant market share in anything.

They sell a shed load of power tools though. The groups is TP and
Wickes.
Which is a hell of a lot of trade outlets.

Undoubtedly, but that wasn't the point being made.

The risk of course is the same as that of all supermarket suppliers
and
anyone else who has a dominant customer. If they choose to drop you it
is bad news.

This is my point. They appear to have locked themselves into some
deal that restricts their route to market through one player who can
only cover a small part of the market.

Not good business at all .....

Wickes and TP small? The point is that top quality Kress products are
available in the UK and highly competitive prices. I always look at what
Wickes sells before looking at others.

I can imagine.

Mat, you can't as you drool over the Makita brochure.

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:41:28 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

If they have restricted themselves to only one private label deal and
no own presence in a geographical territory, then my conclusion would
be that they are not very commercially adept, and that raises other
concerns.

Like selling 700,000 first class products a year in 60 countries.


Like why limit the addressable market in the UK?

Matt, who knows. Email Kress, I'm sure they have a press officer..

Andy Hall wrote:

The manufacturer would expect to be able to sell the same product in
its own livery in the same geographical territory, and indeed to offer
it on the same cosmetic relabelling basis to other similar channels.

I think not, certainly not ever in my experience. Any deal I've ever been
associated with has been exclusive rights to the UK market. The last thing
you want is an identical product being available, extreemly bad for
business.

Clearly the manufacturer is not going to expect to be able to sell a
Wickes labelled product in Homebase, but they should be in a position
to sell the same thing in orange and green to Homebase.

Not if they ever expect to do business with Wickes again. Wickes would
never negotiate a deal that allowed an identical product to be sold by a
competitor - commercial suicide.

The major chains always negotiate exclusive deals. With extreemly FMCG
where the brand name has the channel power you might buy a BLOGGO XYZ 123
from Currys, but in Dixons it will be a different colour with a different
logo and called the BLOGGO XYZ 124.

Trust me, no major national is stupid enough to allow an identical product
to compete with their branded version.

Dave

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:18:21 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:41:28 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

If they have restricted themselves to only one private label deal and
no own presence in a geographical territory, then my conclusion would
be that they are not very commercially adept, and that raises other
concerns.

Like selling 700,000 first class products a year in 60 countries.


Like why limit the addressable market in the UK?

Email Kress, I'm sure they have a press officer..


Why would I want to waste my time doing that? I don't suppose they
would tell me anyway.



--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:18:21 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:41:28 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

If they have restricted themselves to only one private label deal
and
no own presence in a geographical territory, then my conclusion
would
be that they are not very commercially adept, and that raises other
concerns.

Like selling 700,000 first class products a year in 60 countries.


Like why limit the addressable market in the UK?

Email Kress, I'm sure they have a press officer..

Why would I want to waste my time doing that?

Then you can go out and buy some quality Teutonic tools.

I don't suppose they
would tell me anyway.

I wouldn't tell you. You never know what you would say down the pub.

"david lang" wrote in message
. uk...
Andy Hall wrote:

The manufacturer would expect to be able to sell the same product in
its own livery in the same geographical territory, and indeed to offer
it on the same cosmetic relabelling basis to other similar channels.

I think not, certainly not ever in my experience. Any deal I've ever been
associated with has been exclusive rights to the UK market. The last
thing
you want is an identical product being available, extreemly bad for
business.

Clearly the manufacturer is not going to expect to be able to sell a
Wickes labelled product in Homebase, but they should be in a position
to sell the same thing in orange and green to Homebase.

Matt here, thinks that Kress is low level DIY, always rubbishing the brand,
showing real ignorance. Yet pros always think highly of them, because they
are pro tools. Most Wickes power tools are sold to the trade and the Kress
models are in the Wickes grey Professional range. I doubt Kress would sell
a Homebase branded drill as it wouldn't sell being too expensive, and would
lower their status. Porter Cable, a quality US maker, rebadge Kress: Look
at the SDS http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2722 and the Kress
SDS http://www.kress-elektrik.de/en/prod...ct.php?id=2778 Identical,
the same product. Kress only sell to professional outlets.

Not if they ever expect to do business with Wickes again. Wickes would
never negotiate a deal that allowed an identical product to be sold by a
competitor - commercial suicide.

The major chains always negotiate exclusive deals. With extreemly FMCG
where the brand name has the channel power you might buy a BLOGGO XYZ 123
from Currys, but in Dixons it will be a different colour with a different
logo and called the BLOGGO XYZ 124.

Trust me, no major national is stupid enough to allow an identical product
to compete with their branded version.