On 12/9/2013 8:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/9/2013 2:39 PM, Leon wrote:
On 12/9/2013 1:17 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/9/2013 1:23 PM, Bill wrote:

Okay, as a Thunderbird user myself, I would be interested in listening
to those who think they have something better. I download all my
messages from a single news server, so I have no need for further
functionality in that area. Anything else?


I'd say Forte Agent is equal, but it is not free anymore aside from a 30
day trial.

I used Outlook Express for years until they "improved" it making it
about useless for newsgroups.



Actually Outlook Express is no longer available after XP, IIRC.

Essentially the same, it is now called Live Mail.


I'm not sure I would say that Live Mail is equentially the same as OLE
so much as the replacement for OLE.

IIRC it does not read news groups.

On 12/9/2013 5:31 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/9/2013 1:23 PM, Bill wrote:

Okay, as a Thunderbird user myself, I would be interested in
listening to those who think they have something better. I download
all my messages from a single news server, so I have no need for
further functionality in that area. Anything else?


I'd say Forte Agent is equal, but it is not free anymore aside from a
30 day trial.

I used Outlook Express for years until they "improved" it making it
about useless for newsgroups.

I still use it just because I have it. I don't have any problems with
newsgroups - what kind of problems did you find?



Probably what he meant to say is the OLE was good until they replaced it
with Live Mail. OLE was always good for news groups, but it is no
longer available on post XP OS's.

On 12/10/2013 7:25 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message


I used Outlook Express for years until they "improved" it
making it about useless for newsgroups.

I've used Outlook Express from Win 95a, Win 95b, Win 98 and WinXP. I still
use it with Win8 in an XP virtual machine. I am unaware of any changes that
made it useless for news groups. What might those changes be?



OLE is no longer available on Win 7 and 8. Those are the changes.

Leon wrote:
On 12/10/2013 7:25 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message


I used Outlook Express for years until they "improved" it
making it about useless for newsgroups.

I've used Outlook Express from Win 95a, Win 95b, Win 98 and WinXP. I
still use it with Win8 in an XP virtual machine. I am unaware of
any changes that made it useless for news groups. What might those
changes be?


OLE is no longer available on Win 7 and 8. Those are the changes.

It should still be available to those who wish to downgrade to IE6. OE was
always a component of IE, not a stand alone product. Of course downgrading
to IE6 is worse than a sharp stick in the eye.

--

-Mike-

I know a little about woodworking but I'm not too educated when it comes to news readers. I will ask this question sort of expecting flames:

Why would you not use Google Groups other than the inability to get binaries?


On Monday, December 9, 2013 11:56:37 AM UTC-5, Lee Michaels wrote:
I need an independent, dedicated newsreader. I am migrating to a system that

does not support newsreaders in the email client. And it is not just me but

a number of us old farts who insist on reading these archaic newsgroups.



Any suggestions? I will pay something if necessary, but my needs are

simple. A few newsgroups accessed a few times a day. And there is not

anywhere near the volume there used to be. So demands on the computers

resources should be minimal.



I need to be able to read and reply to posts. And a bozo filter would be

nice. Some capability to save some posts would be nice as well. That is

all I really need. Any suggestions?



The new system is a win 7 64 bit system. The email client is in office

2007, specifically outlook 2007. You used to be able to read UseNet

newsgroups in Outlook 2007, but Microsoft have removed anything that does

not use their own servers servers for newsgroups.

On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:36:03 AM UTC-6, Bill Leonhardt wrote:
I know a little about woodworking but I'm not too educated when it comes to news readers. I will ask this question sort of expecting flames:



Why would you not use Google Groups other than the inability to get binaries?

Maybe some functions like saving posts or blocking certain posters, a better text editor too. Other things like highlighting responses to your posts and showing the thread hierarchies.

I used to use a dedicated client and service, but now I use google groups because it's free, easy, and readily available on my computer, phone, &c.

On 12/10/2013 9:22 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 12/10/2013 7:25 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message


I used Outlook Express for years until they "improved" it
making it about useless for newsgroups.

I've used Outlook Express from Win 95a, Win 95b, Win 98 and WinXP. I
still use it with Win8 in an XP virtual machine. I am unaware of
any changes that made it useless for news groups. What might those
changes be?


OLE is no longer available on Win 7 and 8. Those are the changes.

It should still be available to those who wish to downgrade to IE6. OE was
always a component of IE, not a stand alone product. Of course downgrading
to IE6 is worse than a sharp stick in the eye.

Hummmmmm I did not realize that. I did learn a couple of days ago that
earlier versions of IE were still available. But like you say.....

Anyway Thunderbird is very similar and comes with out having to install
an earlier version of IE.

On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 08:07:33 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

Get a different email client. One that also does nntp. Either Sylpheed
or Claws would do nicely, Thunderbird too.

I don't use Thunderbird for news, just for email. But it has developed a
nasty habit of changing the font size in the middle of composing an
email. Could be peculiar to the Linux version (17.0.2) but it is an
irritant.

--
This message was for rec.woodworking - if it appears in homeownershub
they ripped it off.

Bill wrote:
I use Thunderbird.



Since we are talking about Thunderbird, etc. You may have noticed that
sometimes the words of my text run together. That's because (in my
preferences) I "edit in HTML" (which permits me to make the text large
enough to see it well).

To avoid the problem of the words running together,
I usually cut all of my text, copy to WordPad, and Paste back into the
editor in Thunderbird--and that works. Except, when I forget to do
that, some of the words run together when they are uploaded to the
newsgroup server as text. Anyone else doing this in
Thunderbird/Seamonkey (have a better solution?)

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message
Leon wrote:
On 12/10/2013 7:25 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message


I used Outlook Express for years until they
"improved" it making it about useless for
newsgroups.

I've used Outlook Express from Win 95a, Win 95b, Win
98 and WinXP. I still use it with Win8 in an XP
virtual machine. I am unaware of any changes that
made it useless for news groups. What might those
changes be?


OLE is no longer available on Win 7 and 8. Those are
the changes.

It should still be available to those who wish to
downgrade to IE6. OE was always a component of IE, not a
stand alone product.

Can IE 6 be installed in Win 7 or 8? I'm thinking MS would have conniptions
if one tried to do so.

Of course downgrading to IE6 is
worse than a sharp stick in the eye.

Having it installed doesn't mean you have to use it

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message
Leon wrote:
On 12/10/2013 7:25 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message


I used Outlook Express for years until they
"improved" it making it about useless for
newsgroups.
I've used Outlook Express from Win 95a, Win 95b, Win
98 and WinXP. I still use it with Win8 in an XP
virtual machine. I am unaware of any changes that
made it useless for news groups. What might those
changes be?

OLE is no longer available on Win 7 and 8. Those are
the changes.
It should still be available to those who wish to
downgrade to IE6. OE was always a component of IE, not a
stand alone product.
Can IE 6 be installed in Win 7 or 8? I'm thinking MS would have conniptions
if one tried to do so.

Of course downgrading to IE6 is
worse than a sharp stick in the eye.

Sounds like "just asking" for a virus!

On 12/9/2013 10:56 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:

The new system is a win 7 64 bit system. The email client is in office
2007, specifically outlook 2007. You used to be able to read UseNet
newsgroups in Outlook 2007, but Microsoft have removed anything that
does not use their own servers servers for newsgroups.

This latest version (24.1.1) of TB is ****ing me off. Unstable, not
responding from the simple saving of an email to a storage folder, etc.
Most problematic version I've had on this Win7 box in a good while.

Feels like it may be an add-on/Filter issues, but they all show as
compatible, and the few add-ons/Filters I need is what makes TB usable
for me.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

dadiOH wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message

It should still be available to those who wish to
downgrade to IE6. OE was always a component of IE, not a
stand alone product.

Can IE 6 be installed in Win 7 or 8? I'm thinking MS would have
conniptions if one tried to do so.

I don't really know because I'm still back on XP. I would think however
that IE6 could be loaded along side of your current browser - just don't
make it the default browser. That way, you get OE and IE6 with all of its
problems, just sits there taking up a small amount of space on your disk.
It's worth the try.


Of course downgrading to IE6 is
worse than a sharp stick in the eye.

Having it installed doesn't mean you have to use it

Precisely!

--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message
Leon wrote:
On 12/10/2013 7:25 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message


I used Outlook Express for years until they
"improved" it making it about useless for
newsgroups.
I've used Outlook Express from Win 95a, Win 95b, Win
98 and WinXP. I still use it with Win8 in an XP
virtual machine. I am unaware of any changes that
made it useless for news groups. What might those
changes be?

OLE is no longer available on Win 7 and 8. Those are
the changes.
It should still be available to those who wish to
downgrade to IE6. OE was always a component of IE, not a
stand alone product.
Can IE 6 be installed in Win 7 or 8? I'm thinking MS would have
conniptions if one tried to do so.

Of course downgrading to IE6 is
worse than a sharp stick in the eye.

Sounds like "just asking" for a virus!

Absolutely not. Don't use that browser. You'd just be installing it to get
OE. Simply do not make it your default browser and all it will do is eat up
a small amount of disk space.

--

-Mike-

Swingman wrote:
On 12/9/2013 10:56 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:

The new system is a win 7 64 bit system. The email client is in
office 2007, specifically outlook 2007. You used to be able to read
UseNet newsgroups in Outlook 2007, but Microsoft have removed
anything that does not use their own servers servers for newsgroups.

This latest version (24.1.1) of TB is ****ing me off. Unstable, not
responding from the simple saving of an email to a storage folder,
etc. Most problematic version I've had on this Win7 box in a good
while.
Feels like it may be an add-on/Filter issues, but they all show as
compatible, and the few add-ons/Filters I need is what makes TB usable
for me.

That is consistent with my recent experiences with Firefox in general. It
really seems that they are not QA'ing the releases anymore and each release
just brings about a new form of crash or hang. Mozilla does not appear to
be the Mozilla of old. Mysterious behaviors that mysteriously disappear a
couple of days later after a mysterious middle of the night upgrade. And
the only evidence left behind is a new mysterious anomoly.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message
Leon wrote:
On 12/10/2013 7:25 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message


I used Outlook Express for years until they
"improved" it making it about useless for
newsgroups.
I've used Outlook Express from Win 95a, Win 95b, Win
98 and WinXP. I still use it with Win8 in an XP
virtual machine. I am unaware of any changes that
made it useless for news groups. What might those
changes be?
OLE is no longer available on Win 7 and 8. Those are
the changes.
It should still be available to those who wish to
downgrade to IE6. OE was always a component of IE, not a
stand alone product.
Can IE 6 be installed in Win 7 or 8? I'm thinking MS would have
conniptions if one tried to do so.

Of course downgrading to IE6 is
worse than a sharp stick in the eye.
Sounds like "just asking" for a virus!
Absolutely not. Don't use that browser. You'd just be installing it to get
OE. Simply do not make it your default browser and all it will do is eat up
a small amount of disk space.

Okay, I misunderstood. I wasn't following every word.

Swingman wrote:
On 12/9/2013 10:56 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:

The new system is a win 7 64 bit system. The email client is in
office 2007, specifically outlook 2007. You used to be able to read
UseNet newsgroups in Outlook 2007, but Microsoft have removed
anything that does not use their own servers servers for newsgroups.

This latest version (24.1.1) of TB is ****ing me off. Unstable, not
responding from the simple saving of an email to a storage folder,
etc. Most problematic version I've had on this Win7 box in a good
while.
Feels like it may be an add-on/Filter issues, but they all show as
compatible, and the few add-ons/Filters I need is what makes TB usable
for me.

Sorry for piggybacking on your post Karl, but to comment on Lee's comment
above - Outlook in any of its releases, never supported nntp. The closest
it ever came was to allow you to configure newsgroups, which upon execution,
called OE. Outlook itself never handled usenet - it shelled OE.

--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:

Okay, I misunderstood. I wasn't following every word.

Hey! - I understand that!

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote...
Swingman wrote:
On 12/9/2013 10:56 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:

The new system is a win 7 64 bit system. The email client is in
office 2007, specifically outlook 2007. You used to be able to read
UseNet newsgroups in Outlook 2007, but Microsoft have removed
anything that does not use their own servers servers for newsgroups.

This latest version (24.1.1) of TB is ****ing me off. Unstable, not
responding from the simple saving of an email to a storage folder,
etc. Most problematic version I've had on this Win7 box in a good
while.
Feels like it may be an add-on/Filter issues, but they all show as
compatible, and the few add-ons/Filters I need is what makes TB usable
for me.

Sorry for piggybacking on your post Karl, but to comment on Lee's comment
above - Outlook in any of its releases, never supported nntp. The closest
it ever came was to allow you to configure newsgroups, which upon
execution, called OE. Outlook itself never handled usenet - it shelled
OE.

Actually three issues here.

The first issue is that they used to offer a nttp work around. You could
download a stripped out Outlook Express or Windows Mail. It would just do
the newsreader function. All email and other functions would be done in
outlook. They no longer offer this work around. You can, of course, access
groups on the Microsoft Exchange. You are not allowed to go outside of the
Microsoft "family".

The second issue is related to the changes that Microsoft made in Outlook.
A number of third party developers offered an add on that would put the nttp
function back into outlook. I tried to download one and could not get it to
work. I sent the developer an email and asked about it. He informed me
that Microsoft created a number of "security upgrades" to outlook that would
make his program and others like it to be seen as a virus. They even sent
out info to the anti virus people so they would think it was a virus too..
Avasti flagged it and would not let me download it. I turned off Avasti and
Outlook would not let me download it. Yep, Outlook flagged it too. And
each version of Outlook gets even more heavy duty in terms of excluding
these prohibited products. Apparently Big Brother Microsoft want to
"protect" us from UseNet.

The third issue, common to all Microsoft email programs is that they end up
taking a lot of the computers resources if very many files are stored in the
program. Which is why you need to empty files and archive what you want to
keep on a semi regular basis. When the nttp function was put into outlook,
either with a Microsoft or a third party solution , this drain on computer
resources greatly accelerated. In fact some individuals said that their
computer went into a constant "grind", apparently named because the hard
drive was working almost all the time.

And since Outlook is primarily used by businesses, they wanted to prevent
this. Which is probably one of the motives for excluding Usenet access.
They make the decision rather than leaving it up to us peasants.

I am really happy with Outlook. My wife and several people who got a
similar system are really happy with Outlook. Very similar to what we used
on out XP systems. Actually a noticeable improvement over Outlook Express.
Just no newsreader. Oh well, there is not that many of us old farts who
still use it. And the "modern" Microsoft is certainly not going to support
anything that keeps advertising dollars out if its pocket.

And I am really happy with Office 2007. It is not the latest, but it is
good and was a freebie on my new system. I am looking at the various
programs and bought a couple used books for a penny on Amazon for reference
material and a couple CD video tutors for about $6. (Yep, I still read
books. And the used price is much cheaper than the Kindle versions of these
books.) I have a number of project soon that will put these programs to
work. Again, this all works out for me.

But no newsreader, soooooo....., That is why I need an independent,
dedicated newsreader. That way I can get my newsfeed. And I can use the
other programs on the computer. And the computer will run fine. And no
fights or internal conflicts with nttp versus the Microsoft Machine. My
hard drive will thank me. It is amazing that I have to work so hard to
regain a little bit of function that has been around for years. Oh well, I
will do whatever is required to function where and when I choose on the net.
Regardless of what Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer thinks I should do.

On 12/9/2013 8:56 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:
I need an independent, dedicated newsreader. I am migrating to a system
that does not support newsreaders in the email client. And it is not
just me but a number of us old farts who insist on reading these archaic
newsgroups.



Thunderbird will work fine...

Lee Michaels wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote...
Swingman wrote:
On 12/9/2013 10:56 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:

The new system is a win 7 64 bit system. The email client is in
office 2007, specifically outlook 2007. You used to be able to
read UseNet newsgroups in Outlook 2007, but Microsoft have removed
anything that does not use their own servers servers for
newsgroups.

This latest version (24.1.1) of TB is ****ing me off. Unstable, not
responding from the simple saving of an email to a storage folder,
etc. Most problematic version I've had on this Win7 box in a good
while.
Feels like it may be an add-on/Filter issues, but they all show as
compatible, and the few add-ons/Filters I need is what makes TB
usable for me.

Sorry for piggybacking on your post Karl, but to comment on Lee's
comment above - Outlook in any of its releases, never supported
nntp. The closest it ever came was to allow you to configure
newsgroups, which upon execution, called OE. Outlook itself never
handled usenet - it shelled OE.

Actually three issues here.

The first issue is that they used to offer a nttp work around. You
could download a stripped out Outlook Express or Windows Mail. It
would just do the newsreader function. All email and other functions
would be done in outlook. They no longer offer this work around. You can,
of course, access groups on the Microsoft Exchange. You are
not allowed to go outside of the Microsoft "family".


This is exactly what I had said. The workaround you refer to was a shell to
OE.


The second issue is related to the changes that Microsoft made in
Outlook. A number of third party developers offered an add on that
would put the nttp function back into outlook. I tried to download
one and could not get it to work. I sent the developer an email and
asked about it. He informed me that Microsoft created a number of
"security upgrades" to outlook that would make his program and others
like it to be seen as a virus. They even sent out info to the anti
virus people so they would think it was a virus too.. Avasti flagged
it and would not let me download it. I turned off Avasti and Outlook
would not let me download it. Yep, Outlook flagged it too. And each
version of Outlook gets even more heavy duty in terms of excluding
these prohibited products. Apparently Big Brother Microsoft want to
"protect" us from UseNet.

Which I do not disagree with, but only points to my single comment - Outlook
has never been an nntp client. It has always relied upon a shell to do
newsgroups - whether those were native Microsoft, or third party - or
whether they were ultimately eliminated.


The third issue, common to all Microsoft email programs is that they
end up taking a lot of the computers resources if very many files are
stored in the program. Which is why you need to empty files and
archive what you want to keep on a semi regular basis. When the nttp
function was put into outlook, either with a Microsoft or a third
party solution , this drain on computer resources greatly
accelerated. In fact some individuals said that their computer went
into a constant "grind", apparently named because the hard drive was
working almost all the time.

That may be true, but it is not really relevant to the statement that I
made. I made no statements at all that were relevant to any performance
characteristics of either Microsoft, or third party products.


And since Outlook is primarily used by businesses, they wanted to
prevent this. Which is probably one of the motives for excluding
Usenet access. They make the decision rather than leaving it up to us
peasants.

This statement is (sorry....) pure bull. Businesses thrived on usenet for
years. The decisions to cripple Outlook by not including an nntp interface
was purely Microsoft. It had nothing at all to do with business.


I am really happy with Outlook. My wife and several people who got a
similar system are really happy with Outlook. Very similar to what
we used on out XP systems. Actually a noticeable improvement over
Outlook Express. Just no newsreader. Oh well, there is not that many
of us old farts who still use it. And the "modern" Microsoft is
certainly not going to support anything that keeps advertising
dollars out if its pocket.

I agree. I use Outlook daily. I love it. It would be better - and it
always would have been better if it had an nntp component, but for what it
is - it is great in my opinion.


And I am really happy with Office 2007. It is not the latest, but it
is good and was a freebie on my new system.

I'm still on Office 2007 as well, and like you, I see no reason to migrate
off. It simply works. For all of the bitching about MS products, it just
simply works. I don't really care for any of the other, more estoeric
conversations about it and competing products.


But no newsreader, soooooo....., That is why I need an independent,
dedicated newsreader. That way I can get my newsfeed. And I can use
the other programs on the computer. And the computer will run fine. And
no fights or internal conflicts with nttp versus the Microsoft
Machine. My hard drive will thank me. It is amazing that I have to
work so hard to regain a little bit of function that has been around
for years. Oh well, I will do whatever is required to function where
and when I choose on the net. Regardless of what Bill Gates or Steve
Ballmer thinks I should do.

You really should not have to work too hard. There have been plenty of
really workable solutions proposed. Pick one that you like and get on with
it. Methinks this has gone well beyond the point of being an informative
thread, to one that is just swirling in its own misery.

--

-Mike-

On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 07:36:03 -0800 (PST), Bill Leonhardt
wrote:

I know a little about woodworking but I'm not too educated when it comes to news readers. I will ask this question sort of expecting flames:

Why would you not use Google Groups other than the inability to get binaries?

If it suits your purpose good for you, but the main reason for me is
threading, GG's horrific interface and the poor retention of GG.

Markem wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 07:36:03 -0800 (PST), Bill Leonhardt
wrote:

I know a little about woodworking but I'm not too educated when it
comes to news readers. I will ask this question sort of expecting
flames:

Why would you not use Google Groups other than the inability to get
binaries?

If it suits your purpose good for you, but the main reason for me is
threading, GG's horrific interface and the poor retention of GG.

Ain't that just the ****s, too? Since Google bought Deja News one would
have thought that retention would have been the best in the world. But...

--

-Mike-

On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 07:36:03 -0800 (PST), Bill Leonhardt
wrote:

I know a little about woodworking but I'm not too educated when it comes to news readers. I will ask this question sort of expecting flames:

Why would you not use Google Groups other than the inability to get binaries?

Because Google screws up the Usenet for the rest of us. Read your own
posts for just one example. There are many.

On 12/10/2013 1:17 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 12/9/2013 10:56 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:

The new system is a win 7 64 bit system. The email client is in office
2007, specifically outlook 2007. You used to be able to read UseNet
newsgroups in Outlook 2007, but Microsoft have removed anything that
does not use their own servers servers for newsgroups.

This latest version (24.1.1) of TB is ****ing me off. Unstable, not
responding from the simple saving of an email to a storage folder, etc.
Most problematic version I've had on this Win7 box in a good while.

Aw, you musta blinked. TB is now at 24.2.0 as of this moment. Just
launched TB and it upgraded it a minute ago.

Hopefully the "undocumented feature" you mentioned has been scrubbed out.g

Markem wrote in
:

On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 07:36:03 -0800 (PST), Bill Leonhardt
wrote:

I know a little about woodworking but I'm not too educated
when it comes to news readers. I will ask this question
sort of expecting flames:

Why would you not use Google Groups other than the
inability to get binaries?

If it suits your purpose good for you, but the main reason
for me is threading, GG's horrific interface and the poor
retention of GG.


GG is the source of much spam and is contributing the the demise
of Usenet. Many people that have been around Usenet for years
block anything posted from a GMail address. I wouldn't have seen
this had someone not responded. Nothing personal, but I have
found the content of users that post using a NNTP client is more
likely on topic.

http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

Larry

On 12/10/2013 6:34 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 12/10/2013 1:17 PM, Swingman wrote:

This latest version (24.1.1) of TB is ****ing me off. Unstable, not
responding from the simple saving of an email to a storage folder, etc.
Most problematic version I've had on this Win7 box in a good while.

Aw, you musta blinked. TB is now at 24.2.0 as of this moment. Just
launched TB and it upgraded it a minute ago.

Hopefully the "undocumented feature" you mentioned has been scrubbed
out.g

LOL ... damn, you're right. Hit Help while typing this and it started
downloading immediately.

I'll be back shortly, I hope.


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 12/10/2013 8:25 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message


I used Outlook Express for years until they "improved" it
making it about useless for newsgroups.

I've used Outlook Express from Win 95a, Win 95b, Win 98 and WinXP. I still
use it with Win8 in an XP virtual machine. I am unaware of any changes that
made it useless for news groups. What might those changes be?


It evolved into Live Mail. It will not put markers (such as or in
front of quoted text. It is OK for most email needs though.

Lee Michaels submitted this idea :

"Mike Marlow" wrote...
Swingman wrote:
On 12/9/2013 10:56 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:

The new system is a win 7 64 bit system. The email client is in
office 2007, specifically outlook 2007. You used to be able to read
UseNet newsgroups in Outlook 2007, but Microsoft have removed
anything that does not use their own servers servers for newsgroups.

This latest version (24.1.1) of TB is ****ing me off. Unstable, not
responding from the simple saving of an email to a storage folder,
etc. Most problematic version I've had on this Win7 box in a good
while.
Feels like it may be an add-on/Filter issues, but they all show as
compatible, and the few add-ons/Filters I need is what makes TB usable
for me.

Sorry for piggybacking on your post Karl, but to comment on Lee's comment
above - Outlook in any of its releases, never supported nntp. The closest
it ever came was to allow you to configure newsgroups, which upon
execution, called OE. Outlook itself never handled usenet - it shelled OE.

Actually three issues here.

The first issue is that they used to offer a nttp work around. You could
download a stripped out Outlook Express or Windows Mail. It would just do
the newsreader function. All email and other functions would be done in
outlook. They no longer offer this work around. You can, of course, access
groups on the Microsoft Exchange. You are not allowed to go outside of the
Microsoft "family".

The second issue is related to the changes that Microsoft made in Outlook. A
number of third party developers offered an add on that would put the nttp
function back into outlook. I tried to download one and could not get it to
work. I sent the developer an email and asked about it. He informed me that
Microsoft created a number of "security upgrades" to outlook that would make
his program and others like it to be seen as a virus. They even sent out
info to the anti virus people so they would think it was a virus too.. Avasti
flagged it and would not let me download it. I turned off Avasti and Outlook
would not let me download it. Yep, Outlook flagged it too. And each version
of Outlook gets even more heavy duty in terms of excluding these prohibited
products. Apparently Big Brother Microsoft want to "protect" us from UseNet.

The third issue, common to all Microsoft email programs is that they end up
taking a lot of the computers resources if very many files are stored in the
program. Which is why you need to empty files and archive what you want to
keep on a semi regular basis. When the nttp function was put into outlook,
either with a Microsoft or a third party solution , this drain on computer
resources greatly accelerated. In fact some individuals said that their
computer went into a constant "grind", apparently named because the hard
drive was working almost all the time.

And since Outlook is primarily used by businesses, they wanted to prevent
this. Which is probably one of the motives for excluding Usenet access. They
make the decision rather than leaving it up to us peasants.

I am really happy with Outlook. My wife and several people who got a similar
system are really happy with Outlook. Very similar to what we used on out XP
systems. Actually a noticeable improvement over Outlook Express. Just no
newsreader. Oh well, there is not that many of us old farts who still use
it. And the "modern" Microsoft is certainly not going to support anything
that keeps advertising dollars out if its pocket.

And I am really happy with Office 2007. It is not the latest, but it is good
and was a freebie on my new system. I am looking at the various programs and
bought a couple used books for a penny on Amazon for reference material and a
couple CD video tutors for about $6. (Yep, I still read books. And the used
price is much cheaper than the Kindle versions of these books.) I have a
number of project soon that will put these programs to work. Again, this all
works out for me.

But no newsreader, soooooo....., That is why I need an independent,
dedicated newsreader. That way I can get my newsfeed. And I can use the
other programs on the computer. And the computer will run fine. And no
fights or internal conflicts with nttp versus the Microsoft Machine. My hard
drive will thank me. It is amazing that I have to work so hard to regain a
little bit of function that has been around for years. Oh well, I will do
whatever is required to function where and when I choose on the net.
Regardless of what Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer thinks I should do.

Mesnews seems to me to do all I had from OE and one thing better,
When you leave subject it does not mark any unread msgs as read like if
I remeber OE did.

http://www.mesnews.net/gb/

--
John G

John G wrote:


Mesnews seems to me to do all I had from OE and one thing better,
When you leave subject it does not mark any unread msgs as read like
if I remeber OE did.

http://www.mesnews.net/gb/

I don't experience OE marking unread messages as read. It actually behaves
quite well in that respect. But it is good to see a new entry in the world
of newsreaders. Gonna have to take a look at mesnews.

--

-Mike-

"John G" wrote

Mesnews seems to me to do all I had from OE and one thing better,
When you leave subject it does not mark any unread msgs as read like if I
remeber OE did.

http://www.mesnews.net/gb/

Thanks, I will check it out. I have not seen this program before.

Mike Marlow wrote :
John G wrote:


Mesnews seems to me to do all I had from OE and one thing better,
When you leave subject it does not mark any unread msgs as read like
if I remeber OE did.

http://www.mesnews.net/gb/

I don't experience OE marking unread messages as read. It actually behaves
quite well in that respect. But it is good to see a new entry in the world
of newsreaders. Gonna have to take a look at mesnews.

You may be correct, it's a few years now since I stopped using OE when
it first disapeared from current versions of IE.

An update was released only a week or so ago and it had a lttle bug
with scrolling It was fixed within a few days.

--
John G

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message

That is consistent with my recent experiences with
Firefox in general. It really seems that they are not
QA'ing the releases anymore and each release just brings
about a new form of crash or hang. Mozilla does not
appear to be the Mozilla of old. Mysterious behaviors
that mysteriously disappear a couple of days later after
a mysterious middle of the night upgrade. And the only
evidence left behind is a new mysterious anomoly.

Hmm...maybe Microsoft surreptiously bought them out and is now doing the
coding

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"John G" wrote in message


Mesnews seems to me to do all I had from OE and one thing
better, When you leave subject it does not mark any unread msgs
as read like if I remeber OE did.

It marked them as read because you had set the option to do so.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 12/11/2013 5:28 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message

That is consistent with my recent experiences with
Firefox in general. It really seems that they are not
QA'ing the releases anymore and each release just brings
about a new form of crash or hang. Mozilla does not
appear to be the Mozilla of old. Mysterious behaviors
that mysteriously disappear a couple of days later after
a mysterious middle of the night upgrade. And the only
evidence left behind is a new mysterious anomoly.

Hmm...maybe Microsoft surreptiously bought them out and is now doing the
coding


I'm using Firefox and Thunderbird as my default internet apps. I've
used them for years, and have never (well, almost never, and not for a
long time) experienced crashes and hangups.

Just Wondering wrote:


I'm using Firefox and Thunderbird as my default internet apps. I've
used them for years, and have never (well, almost never, and not for a
long time) experienced crashes and hangups.

You must have been one of the one in one hundred thousabndth lucky users
then, and good for you if you were. Most users have experineced the recent
spate of Firefox issues. Just look at any google search results on firefox,

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Just Wondering wrote:

I'm using Firefox and Thunderbird as my default internet apps. I've
used them for years, and have never (well, almost never, and not for a
long time) experienced crashes and hangups.
You must have been one of the one in one hundred thousabndth lucky users
then, and good for you if you were. Most users have experineced the recent
spate of Firefox issues. Just look at any google search results on firefox,

Last time I got my SeaMonkey (~Mozilla) update, it made me so "unhappy",
I was reinstalling the old version less than 20 minutes later. I often
say, to myself, "If it's not broke, don't fix it!"...LOL. Not that I
always heed my own advice...but I've described a suitable reaction, for
those lacking one, for any occasion when one has such regret... I'm
reminded of the final turn of the wrench that is just too easy.

On 12/11/2013 3:36 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Just Wondering wrote:


I'm using Firefox and Thunderbird as my default internet apps. I've
used them for years, and have never (well, almost never, and not for a
long time) experienced crashes and hangups.

You must have been one of the one in one hundred thousabndth lucky users
then, and good for you if you were. Most users have experineced the recent
spate of Firefox issues. Just look at any google search results on firefox,

I am another of the "one hundred thousabndth".

My experience with Firefox and Thunderbird is the same. I started using
Firefox and Thunderbird as a replacement for Netscape over 10 years ago.
I have never had a serious problem with updating, or using either of
the programs. I am not an occasional user but use them several hours
per day.

The people who appear on the newsgroups and forums are a small minority
of the Mozilla users. Many are like the person in a recent Mozilla
newsgroup that was complaining about problems with FF & TB where he had
between 77 and 100 addons installed. I did not know there were that
many that were truly different addons available. I have less that a half
dozen in each Firefox and Thunderbird.

In some of the post with problems, FF & TB get blamed when the root
cause of the problem is somewhere else and probably with non standard
code of a URL.

Unless you have gigabits of messages, several dozen different accounts,
77 or more addons installed in FF & TB, and never compact TB's
databases, I doubt if you will ever have serious problems with Firefox
or Thunderbird.

On Monday, December 9, 2013 11:56:37 AM UTC-5, Lee Michaels wrote:
I need an independent, dedicated newsreader. I am migrating to a system that

does not support newsreaders in the email client. And it is not just me but

a number of us old farts who insist on reading these archaic newsgroups.



Any suggestions? I will pay something if necessary, but my needs are

simple. A few newsgroups accessed a few times a day. And there is not

anywhere near the volume there used to be. So demands on the computers

resources should be minimal.



I need to be able to read and reply to posts. And a bozo filter would be

nice. Some capability to save some posts would be nice as well. That is

all I really need. Any suggestions?



The new system is a win 7 64 bit system. The email client is in office

2007, specifically outlook 2007. You used to be able to read UseNet

newsgroups in Outlook 2007, but Microsoft have removed anything that does

not use their own servers servers for newsgroups.

+1 for Agent, or Free Agent, very good programs in their day.

On 12/11/2013 03:35 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 12/11/2013 3:36 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Just Wondering wrote:


I'm using Firefox and Thunderbird as my default internet apps. I've
used them for years, and have never (well, almost never, and not for a
long time) experienced crashes and hangups.

You must have been one of the one in one hundred thousabndth lucky users
then, and good for you if you were. Most users have experineced the
recent
spate of Firefox issues. Just look at any google search results on
firefox,

I am another of the "one hundred thousabndth".

My experience with Firefox and Thunderbird is the same. I started using
Firefox and Thunderbird as a replacement for Netscape over 10 years ago.
I have never had a serious problem with updating, or using either of
the programs. I am not an occasional user but use them several hours
per day.

The people who appear on the newsgroups and forums are a small minority
of the Mozilla users. Many are like the person in a recent Mozilla
newsgroup that was complaining about problems with FF & TB where he had
between 77 and 100 addons installed. I did not know there were that
many that were truly different addons available. I have less that a half
dozen in each Firefox and Thunderbird.

In some of the post with problems, FF & TB get blamed when the root
cause of the problem is somewhere else and probably with non standard
code of a URL.

Unless you have gigabits of messages, several dozen different accounts,
77 or more addons installed in FF & TB, and never compact TB's
databases, I doubt if you will ever have serious problems with Firefox
or Thunderbird.

Agree - been using TB and FF for years with no major issues. No more
than half dozen add-ons on each.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill