On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:50:14 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:


A follow up to my gel varnish suggestion....

I just came in from the shop. I applied Old Masters Gel Varnish to the
top, bottom, and front edge of 16 shelves and to the fronts of 6 cabinet
backs,approximately 14"x75"

After applying the varnish to one side I immediately flipped them over on
the fresh surface to do the other side, one at a time. When finished
with each I picked them up with no worry of dust or prints and stood them
on end with a fan blowing on them.

That took about 2.5 hours.

I know you already have your varnish but go buy a can of Old Masters and
skip all the preparation that goes with liquid varnishes. BTY no
scuffing between coats either.

Use sparingly, I used 1/2 quart. Subsequent coats will take much less.

My shoulders are aching just reading this. The heat ran me out of the shop
around 3 ... not as hot outside as yesterday, but 104 in the shop.

My shoulders are aching from weedeating down a 6' wide, 4' deep trench
200' long in 80F weather yesterday and raking and bagging (fourteen 33
gal bags) them today, then loading all that on the truck to go to
recycling. I would MUCH prefer to have done a quick rubout on those
few shelves of Leon's. I wonder if I can get him to trade the next
time he does it...

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

On 6/27/2012 10:48 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
On Jun 27, 8:26 pm, "Mike
wrote:
Leon wrote:
This varnish, NOT the one preciously posted.

This one
GEL VARNISH

http://www.myoldmasters.com/products...ed-gelpoly.htm

Still impressed by the drying times you're getting.

Shellac is 5 seconds dry time if you apply it by French
polish technique. To be expected, since each coat
is well under a thousandth of an inch thick -- or at least
seems that thin.


With the gel varnish you dont even wait 5 seconds before you flip it and
put the fresh varnish side down on the work bench.

On 6/27/2012 8:41 PM, Richard wrote:
On 6/27/2012 4:30 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/27/2012 2:29 PM, Bill wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Don't worry about it, Bill. Dust is inevitable. You can't prevent it.
Instead, you cope with it.

Here's how:

Once you have the project smooth enough to finish (by sanding,
planing, scraping, or
whatever), wipe it down with a dry microfiber cloth to remove dust
from the surface. Then
apply your first coat of wipe-on poly. Wait for it to dry, then sand
the surface with 400-grit
sandpaper. Wipe again with the microfiber cloth, and apply another
coat. Repeat. Repeat
again, using 600-grit this time. Repeat once more, using either 600-
or 800-grit. When dry,
sand with 1000-grit or finer (available at nearly any auto parts
store), and wipe with the
microfiber cloth. You're done, and the surface will feel like glass.

Thanks Doug. I assume that T-shirt material qualify as "microfiber"
cloth. I've got a tack rag too. I was going to rub with a rag with
denatured alcohol to clean out the pores of the wood before the first
coat.

While we're on this topic, the state of my knowledge is that 320, say,
Aluminum Oxide sand paper (designed for wood) is similarly abrasive to
320 grit Silicon Carbide ("wet or dry"), except the later is designed
for metal. I know the Aluminum Oxide breaks down as you use it, helping
to keep the paper free of dust. I might guess I might actually want to
use water, if I was following the procedure Doug outlined, just to keep
the paper usable. Do I need to correct any of this?

Thanks,
Bill


A follow up to my gel varnish suggestion....

I just came in from the shop. I applied Old Masters Gel Varnish to the
top, bottom, and front edge of 16 shelves and to the fronts of 6 cabinet
backs,approximately 14"x75"

After applying the varnish to one side I immediately flipped them over
on the fresh surface to do the other side, one at a time. When finished
with each I picked them up with no worry of dust or prints and stood
them on end with a fan blowing on them.

That took about 2.5 hours.

I know you already have your varnish but go buy a can of Old Masters and
skip all the preparation that goes with liquid varnishes. BTY no
scuffing between coats either.

Use sparingly, I used 1/2 quart. Subsequent coats will take much less.







I have been varnishing the interior woodwork on my sailboat and only
have a single wall and some trim left to do. But no varnish left.

I think I'll give your Old MAsters Gel a try See what that's like.

It is an interior finish so if you think it is going to be exposed to
water don't use it. Be sure and wipe it down 2 times with separate
wiping cloths after applying varnish. Basically wipe it down smooth
immediately and apply several coats.

On 6/27/2012 8:46 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
wrote in :

Doug Miller wrote:

Don't worry about it, Bill. Dust is inevitable. You can't prevent it. Instead, you cope with it.

Here's how:

Once you have the project smooth enough to finish (by sanding, planing, scraping, or
whatever), wipe it down with a dry microfiber cloth to remove dust from the surface. Then
apply your first coat of wipe-on poly. Wait for it to dry, then sand the surface with 400-grit
sandpaper. Wipe again with the microfiber cloth, and apply another coat. Repeat.
Repeat
again, using 600-grit this time. Repeat once more, using either 600- or 800-grit. When dry,
sand with 1000-grit or finer (available at nearly any auto parts store), and wipe with the
microfiber cloth. You're done, and the surface will feel like glass.

Thanks Doug. I assume that T-shirt material qualify as "microfiber"
cloth.

No, not at all. It's completely different stuff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfiber

Get some true microfiber cloth, e.g.

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece...ths-68440.html

FYI a much better deal at SamsClub, slightly larger and 24 for $12.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/pr...oductId=198756

I dry my truck with two of these after washing and they still pick up dirt.



then wipe down a freshly-sanded piece with a t-shirt until you're convinced you have
removed all the sawdust -- then wipe it again with the microfiber cloth. You will be
astonished at how much dust remained after you were sure it was all gone.

Always wash your microfiber cloths *by hand*. Put one in the laundry just once, and you'll
discover that it picks up lint just as readily as it picks up sawdust.

We buy the big packs at Sams and collect them until we have a load for
the washer. We wash them by themselves, so no lint, and use no fabric
softener.

On 6/27/2012 11:29 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:50:14 -0500, wrote:

Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:


A follow up to my gel varnish suggestion....

I just came in from the shop. I applied Old Masters Gel Varnish to the
top, bottom, and front edge of 16 shelves and to the fronts of 6 cabinet
backs,approximately 14"x75"

After applying the varnish to one side I immediately flipped them over on
the fresh surface to do the other side, one at a time. When finished
with each I picked them up with no worry of dust or prints and stood them
on end with a fan blowing on them.

That took about 2.5 hours.

I know you already have your varnish but go buy a can of Old Masters and
skip all the preparation that goes with liquid varnishes. BTY no
scuffing between coats either.

Use sparingly, I used 1/2 quart. Subsequent coats will take much less.

My shoulders are aching just reading this. The heat ran me out of the shop
around 3 ... not as hot outside as yesterday, but 104 in the shop.

My shoulders are aching from weedeating down a 6' wide, 4' deep trench
200' long in 80F weather yesterday and raking and bagging (fourteen 33
gal bags) them today, then loading all that on the truck to go to
recycling. I would MUCH prefer to have done a quick rubout on those
few shelves of Leon's. I wonder if I can get him to trade the next
time he does it...

Until recently I was cleaning up the leaves in my dad's yard. Live Oak
leaves. Those drop in the spring and do not break down, they will lay
there for years. Each Spring I have to gather them in 45 Gal contractor
bags and normally 20~24 bags at a time. Repeat 3 weeks later.

On 6/27/2012 9:57 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
"Mike wrote in
news:3459$4feb74bd :

Bill wrote:


Thanks Doug. I assume that T-shirt material qualify as "microfiber"
cloth. I've got a tack rag too. I was going to rub with a rag with
denatured alcohol to clean out the pores of the wood before the
first coat.

No - Tee shirt material is not micro fiber. But... it works very
well. Before micro fiber became the rage of the age, it's what we
used. Works just fine. Frankly - I don't think micro fiber works
any better - it's just the rage of the age.

Oh, yes, it does. Try the experiment I suggested to Bill: wipe a
freshly-sanded workpiece with a tee-shirt, as many times as you want.
Then wipe it again with a microfiber cloth, and see how much sawdust
the tee-shirt missed.

I will try that. I do use micro fiber but I use it to wipe finishes off to
a really nice shine - whether they are wood or metal finishes. I had never
really noticed any real difference in dust pickup, but then again I was
never really looking at that.


Microfiber makes an excellent micro fiber dust mop too.

http://www.mybonahome.com/home.html

Once you have the project smooth enough to finish (by sanding,
planing, scraping, or whatever), wipe it down with a dry microfiber
cloth to remove dust from the surface. Then apply your first coat of
wipe-on poly. Wait for it to dry, then sand the surface with 400-grit
sandpaper. Wipe again with the microfiber cloth, and apply another
coat. Repeat. Repeat again, using 600-grit this time. Repeat once
more, using either 600- or 800-grit. When dry, sand with 1000-grit or
finer (available at nearly any auto parts store), and wipe with the
microfiber cloth. You're done, and the surface will feel like glass.

Thanks Doug. I assume that T-shirt material qualify as "microfiber"
cloth. I've got a tack rag too. I was going to rub with a rag with
denatured alcohol to clean out the pores of the wood before the first
coat.

I use my shop vac with a brush attachment. This pulls dust out of the
pores, lets me clean tight areas like the inside corners of cabinets, and
cleans out recesses like dado's or shelf pin holes. For me the shop vac is
faster, easier, and more thorough than trying to wipe the dust off.

No matter what you do, the first coat of poly will always have little dust
nibs and raised wood fibers. Do a light sanding with 320 grit and clean
with the shop vac again between coats. Works great for me even in a dusty
garage workshop.

Anthony

On 6/27/2012 7:05 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/27/2012 6:48 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 6/27/2012 6:37 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/27/2012 4:50 PM, Swingman wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:


A follow up to my gel varnish suggestion....

I just came in from the shop. I applied Old Masters Gel Varnish to the
top, bottom, and front edge of 16 shelves and to the fronts of 6
cabinet
backs,approximately 14"x75"

After applying the varnish to one side I immediately flipped them
over on
the fresh surface to do the other side, one at a time. When finished
with each I picked them up with no worry of dust or prints and stood
them
on end with a fan blowing on them.

That took about 2.5 hours.

I know you already have your varnish but go buy a can of Old Masters
and
skip all the preparation that goes with liquid varnishes. BTY no
scuffing between coats either.

Use sparingly, I used 1/2 quart. Subsequent coats will take much less.

My shoulders are aching just reading this. The heat ran me out of the
shop
around 3 ... not as hot outside as yesterday, but 104 in the shop.


LOL I for got to mention that I gave ease surface a "double" wipe down
with t-shirt tags to remove excess varnish but that only to a few
moments. I saw 99 in the shop but with the fan blosing directly on me I
was able to do all the pieces non stop in about 2.5 hours. Just checked
their drying progress and the first ones are ready to be recoated.

Ok, just got done with the second coat on all that above, 90 minutes.

On 6/28/2012 10:18 AM, HerHusband wrote:
Once you have the project smooth enough to finish (by sanding,
planing, scraping, or whatever), wipe it down with a dry microfiber
cloth to remove dust from the surface. Then apply your first coat of
wipe-on poly. Wait for it to dry, then sand the surface with 400-grit
sandpaper. Wipe again with the microfiber cloth, and apply another
coat. Repeat. Repeat again, using 600-grit this time. Repeat once
more, using either 600- or 800-grit. When dry, sand with 1000-grit or
finer (available at nearly any auto parts store), and wipe with the
microfiber cloth. You're done, and the surface will feel like glass.

Thanks Doug. I assume that T-shirt material qualify as "microfiber"
cloth. I've got a tack rag too. I was going to rub with a rag with
denatured alcohol to clean out the pores of the wood before the first
coat.

I use my shop vac with a brush attachment. This pulls dust out of the
pores, lets me clean tight areas like the inside corners of cabinets, and
cleans out recesses like dado's or shelf pin holes. For me the shop vac is
faster, easier, and more thorough than trying to wipe the dust off.

I use my Festool sanders and Festool dust extractor, not dust to remove!
;~)





No matter what you do, the first coat of poly will always have little dust
nibs and raised wood fibers. Do a light sanding with 320 grit and clean
with the shop vac again between coats. Works great for me even in a dusty
garage workshop.


That will depend on the type poly you are using, I typically dont have
that problem with gel varnishes since they dry so fast. If I do have
the occasional nib I use printer paper to smooth up the surface.





Anthony

Leon wrote:


I use my Festool sanders and Festool dust extractor, not dust to
remove! ;~)


Oh hell - I use my air hose. Works like a top! It's just not painted
green...

--

-Mike-

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 07:34:43 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/27/2012 11:29 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:50:14 -0500, wrote:

Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:


A follow up to my gel varnish suggestion....

I just came in from the shop. I applied Old Masters Gel Varnish to the
top, bottom, and front edge of 16 shelves and to the fronts of 6 cabinet
backs,approximately 14"x75"

After applying the varnish to one side I immediately flipped them over on
the fresh surface to do the other side, one at a time. When finished
with each I picked them up with no worry of dust or prints and stood them
on end with a fan blowing on them.

That took about 2.5 hours.

I know you already have your varnish but go buy a can of Old Masters and
skip all the preparation that goes with liquid varnishes. BTY no
scuffing between coats either.

Use sparingly, I used 1/2 quart. Subsequent coats will take much less.

My shoulders are aching just reading this. The heat ran me out of the shop
around 3 ... not as hot outside as yesterday, but 104 in the shop.

My shoulders are aching from weedeating down a 6' wide, 4' deep trench
200' long in 80F weather yesterday and raking and bagging (fourteen 33
gal bags) them today, then loading all that on the truck to go to
recycling. I would MUCH prefer to have done a quick rubout on those
few shelves of Leon's. I wonder if I can get him to trade the next
time he does it...

Until recently I was cleaning up the leaves in my dad's yard. Live Oak
leaves. Those drop in the spring and do not break down, they will lay
there for years. Each Spring I have to gather them in 45 Gal contractor
bags and normally 20~24 bags at a time. Repeat 3 weeks later.

I'd have rented a riding leaf vac and let it do the work for a large
job like that. Mulched leaves take up less space, too.

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

HerHusband wrote in news:XnsA080547C43EB7herhusband@
88.198.244.100:

Once you have the project smooth enough to finish (by sanding,
planing, scraping, or whatever), wipe it down with a dry microfiber
cloth to remove dust from the surface. Then apply your first coat of
wipe-on poly. Wait for it to dry, then sand the surface with 400-grit
sandpaper. Wipe again with the microfiber cloth, and apply another
coat. Repeat. Repeat again, using 600-grit this time. Repeat once
more, using either 600- or 800-grit. When dry, sand with 1000-grit or
finer (available at nearly any auto parts store), and wipe with the
microfiber cloth. You're done, and the surface will feel like glass.

Thanks Doug. I assume that T-shirt material qualify as "microfiber"
cloth. I've got a tack rag too. I was going to rub with a rag with
denatured alcohol to clean out the pores of the wood before the first
coat.

I use my shop vac with a brush attachment. This pulls dust out of the
pores, lets me clean tight areas like the inside corners of cabinets, and
cleans out recesses like dado's or shelf pin holes. For me the shop vac is
faster, easier, and more thorough than trying to wipe the dust off.

Next time, once you finish vacuuming, wipe the workpiece with a microfiber cloth to see how
much dust the vacuum failed to pick up. I predict you'll be surprised -- I know I was.

No matter what you do, the first coat of poly will always have little dust
nibs and raised wood fibers. Do a light sanding with 320 grit and clean
with the shop vac again between coats. Works great for me even in a dusty
garage workshop.

It'll work even better if you use a microfiber cloth between coats, instead of the shop vac.
Vacuum cleaners work very well for sawdust, but they really aren't very good at picking up
the very fine dust left by sanding with 320 or 400 grit sandpaper.

On 6/28/2012 11:11 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


I use my Festool sanders and Festool dust extractor, not dust to
remove! ;~)


Oh hell - I use my air hose. Works like a top! It's just not painted
green...


I did that for years but if the sander is capturing all the dust to
start with, no dust top blow.

On Jun 28, 8:23*am, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 6/27/2012 8:41 PM, Richard wrote:

I think I'll give your Old MAsters Gel a try See what that's like.

It is an interior finish so if you think it is going to be exposed to
water don't use it. *Be sure and wipe it down 2 times with separate
wiping cloths after applying varnish. *Basically wipe it down smooth
immediately and apply several coats.

Try Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil. Wipe-on, fast dry, stays
water clear, durable enough for rifle stocks. No poly
AFAIK.

I use my Festool sanders and Festool dust extractor,
not dust to remove! ;~)

I have my Dewalt ROS attached to my shop vac and it leaves behind virtually
no dust either.

Oh hell - I use my air hose. Works like a top!

I've never understood the air hose method. It may temporarily clear the
dust off the work piece, but it also gets blown into the air where I'll
breathe it in or have it settle back on the work piece.

Next time, once you finish vacuuming, wipe the workpiece with a
microfiber cloth to see how much dust the vacuum failed to pick up.

I actually did that recently while finishing some cabinets for my in-laws.
I received a free microfiber cloth with a Rockler order and decided to try
it out. There was a VERY minor bit of dust left from the shop vac, but not
enough to worry about. On the other hand, some woods (especially birch
plywood) really snags the cloth, even when sanded smooth. Not to mention,
the veneers are already so thin I try not to go too crazy sanding.

It'll work even better if you use a microfiber cloth between coats,
instead of the shop vac. Vacuum cleaners work very well for sawdust,
but they really aren't very good at picking up the very fine dust left
by sanding with 320 or 400 grit sandpaper.

If I was working on an heirloom piece of furniture, that level of detail
might make sense. But, I'm usually building cabinets or other utility
furniture that doesn't have to be perfect. For my needs, the shop vac and
brush attachment work great. The brush loosens up any stubborn dust, and I
have a fine filter bag in the vac to prevent the dust from being blown back
into the air.

Anthony

On 6/28/2012 6:09 PM, HerHusband wrote:
I use my Festool sanders and Festool dust extractor,
not dust to remove! ;~)

I have my Dewalt ROS attached to my shop vac and it leaves behind virtually
no dust either.

Oh hell - I use my air hose. Works like a top!

I've never understood the air hose method. It may temporarily clear the
dust off the work piece, but it also gets blown into the air where I'll
breathe it in or have it settle back on the work piece.

Really and truly the fine dust in the air is not going to make a bit of
difference 99.999999% of the time. The air is naturally full of dust.
In 30 years I have never had a problem with blowing the dust and it
settling back down and causing more of a problem than normal dusting
doing the same.

On 6/28/2012 8:16 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/28/2012 6:09 PM, HerHusband wrote:

Really and truly the fine dust in the air is not going to make a bit of
difference 99.999999% of the time. The air is naturally full of dust. In 30
years I have never had a problem with blowing the dust and it settling back
down and causing more of a problem than normal dusting doing the same.

What he said.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Bill wrote:
I am scrambling for a location to apply (wipe on) poly to my
small project. This is my first time around on this.

The bench or shop where I made the project is surely a terrible
candidate. How about a freshly lined gargage can or cardboard box,
lying on it's side, with a stand inside? Obviously, I'm desperate! :
)

Hint from the auto painters: The environment in which the painting takes
place works best if it can be watered down. That is, the floor (bottom)
should be wet. The dust sticks to the wet floor (bottom of your container)
instead of the object you're painting.

Ditto. Most of my work is utilitarian and the vac brush works great
between finishes. I do want to be more picky about the final coat of
finish (on visible parts of cabinets) though so I gotta get one of those
microfiber cloths and give it a whirl.

John S.

On 06/28/2012 06:09 PM, HerHusband wrote:
...
If I was working on an heirloom piece of furniture, that level of detail
might make sense. But, I'm usually building cabinets or other utility
furniture that doesn't have to be perfect. For my needs, the shop vac and
brush attachment work great. The brush loosens up any stubborn dust, and I
have a fine filter bag in the vac to prevent the dust from being blown back
into the air.

Anthony