On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 13:05:48 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 9:49 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:52:29 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/8/2011 2:45 PM, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 10/8/2011 3:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 14:02:40 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 11:58 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 12:31 pm, wrote:

I predict that the Supreme Court will rule along the lines of the
testimony of the expert witness was biased and thus not acceptable.

I think it's a fairly safe bet that the Supreme Court will overturn
it. I'm glad the suit happened, though, and got so much attention.
The major tool companies have had plenty of time to start retooling
and upgrading safety since SawStop came on the scene. They've known
which way the wind was blowing and something needed to be shaken
loose.

R

Totally agree! I am not too happy about SawStop pushing their product
through government intervention however I am equally unhappy about all
the other other manufacturers that have decided that more safety is too
high a price to pay.

Do you know what that "price" was?

Furthermore, all the people I know who have one in their shops have had
triggers. Some of them were on wet wood, stray metal or other nuisance
reasons, some were for no known reason. None were for human/blade
contact. Each trigger costs at least $100, often more depending on the
value of the blade. This is a solution looking for a problem, especially
when you consider that a standard guard, or any after market guard would
solve the problem just as well.

Stuart

And every false trigger that I have heard of was taken care of by SawStop.

Nice! They charge you double the regular rate for a saw of that
particular quality (an extra $1,600 or so) and then give you a couple
$50 freebies to make up for it. Whatta guy!

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide
Have you priced a Powermatic or The new Unisaw "with out" any the blade
brake lately? Are you normally this ignorant or do you simply have a
bug up your butt?

X5s are still available for a *LOT* less than $3500; a perfectly good saw.

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 12:28:40 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2011 10:11 AM, Jim Northey wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Oct 9, 1:22 am, wrote:

Ever try to cut dampish wood on a saw-stop equipped saw???
Gets real expensive and real difficult real fast.

You can't beat stupid. Make something idiotproof and they just come up
with a better idiot, and another dozen lawyers.

This has been gone over before and you're still spreading
disinformation.

From SawStop's FAQ:

6. Will cutting green or “wet” wood activate the SawStop safety
system?
SawStop saws cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the wood
is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist when
cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure treated, then the
wood may be sufficiently conductive to trigger the brake. Accordingly,
the best practice is to dry wet or green wood before cutting by
standing it inside and apart from other wood for about one day. You
can also cut wet pressure treated wood and other conductive material
by placing the saw in bypass mode to deactivate the safety system.

And after activating the bypass, some one then cuts a finger off . Do they
now sue the makers of Sawstop for telling them to turn off a feature that
they pushed through to stop that from happening ?
Jim



Not at all, the operator turned the system off. He pays the stupid tax
and hopefully he has insurance to cover the thousands of dollars that
his mistake just cost him.

That theory doesn't work for guards. Why should it for the bypass?

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 12:16:38 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2011 10:27 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 21:40:08 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 7:53 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:56:37 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 3:18 PM, HeyBub wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 1:50 pm, Gerald wrote:

This may be the beginning of the end of reasonably priced table saws
for occasional users like me. I still have my hand saws.

They're dangerous, too. A common injury back in the day was
"carpenter's thumb". That's where the saw jumped the kerf and bit
into the back of the thumb and cut the tendon. That left the poor sod
with a thumb that could be flexed but not straightened.

There simply will not be an overnight change in the entire saw
market. If and when the new regs roll out it will mean that only new
tools would be required to conform to the new and improved safety
regulations. Used tools will still be available, though the prices of
those will probably rise a bit as well. The regulations would have a
date of compliance set at some point in the future, which will allow
people to start hoarding existing saws, new and used.

Take a gamble - buy a dozen hobbiest tablesaws from Harbor Freight.
Shouldn't cost more than a few hundred and the potential payback might
be double that...if you live that long.


Look for instructions on the web on how to defeat SawStop, thereby saving
$100 or so on the false positives.

Defeating the required SawStop will be as common as removing the blade guard
and might be as simple as clipping a couple of wires...


Contact SawStop and ask them how many false stops that they have not
helped the owner out with. From what I have always heard by those that
had a story to go with the situation, SawStop always provided the
replacement parts.

Do they fork over $125 for a new blade, too?

Not sure but I recall some one saying that one must take responsibility
for ones mistakes.

Mistake? We were talking about a false-trip. The "mistake" is the SawStop's.

...or are you talking about the mistake being buying a SawStop? ;-)

I am thinking more in lines of, what if whose fault it cannot be proven
one way or the other. Perhaps the blade was touched and it was not
actually a false trip. It is not uncommon for a manufacturer to give
the customer the benefit of the doubt and replace parts but not accessories.

In that case, how can it *ever* be proven, short of blood dripping off the
mechanism.

RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 9, 8:14 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 10/9/11 12:22 AM, wrote:

Ever try to cut dampish wood on a saw-stop equipped saw???
Gets real expensive and real difficult real fast.

Everything I've read says it's not a problem.
Even so, here's the real issue. Who's cutting soaking wet wood with
a table saw anyway? There are too many other concerns for me to be
using wet wood before I would even approach a table saw with it. If
you're using wood that's wet enough to set off the sawstop, then
you deserve to pay the stupid tax.

Try building a PT privacy fence.
A. PT wood is VERY wet
B. Many times pickets have to be cut to fit
C. The solution, I suppose, is a circular saw.

Now that must have been a difficult thought process! I don't even use
my good circular saw on PT wood - the wood doesn't warrant it.

Uh, how do you get it to fit, gnaw the wood? Use a hand saw? Forget that
idea and erect chain-link? Screw the whole thing and let your chickens go
free-range?


BTW, have you ever paid more than $150 for a tablesaw, new or used?
You're the Harbor Freight guy, so I tend to doubt it.


No, but I'll have to if SawStop has its way. I did buy an economy table saw
(used) just two days ago for $30 from a Craigslist ad.

It's going to be my retirement investment.

Leon wrote:

Try building a PT privacy fence.
A. PT wood is VERY wet
B. Many times pickets have to be cut to fit
C. The solution, I suppose, is a circular saw.



That is why I always use/used a circular saw for all cuts on the 30+
fences that I have built. And no not "all" PT wood is very wet, I
often used kiln dried PT to guard against excessive warping.

I agree. I stack fence wood in the garage for a couple of months, then take
the warped pickets back to the vendor. Drying like that minimizes the gaps
between pickets if they dry on the vine.

Sill, there are times, such as repairing a broken picket that the neighbor's
dogs have knocked down...

wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 01:02:11 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 10/9/11 12:22 AM, wrote:
Ever try to cut dampish wood on a saw-stop equipped saw???
Gets real expensive and real difficult real fast.


Everything I've read says it's not a problem.
Even so, here's the real issue. Who's cutting soaking wet wood with a
table saw anyway? There are too many other concerns for me to be
using wet wood before I would even approach a table saw with it. If
you're using wood that's wet enough to set off the sawstop, then you
deserve to pay the stupid tax.
Does not need to be soaking wet. Had one go off at the woodworking
club when a guy had wiped down a peice of wood to accentuate the grain
so he cood see which side he wanted to be "exposed. He wiped it with a
damp rag, put it into the saw, and BANG!!!!!!

Upon universal application of SawStop, the conventional wisdom will be to
wear rubber gloves when sawing to prevent the $300 rupture of the moving
parts.

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 12:25:40 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/9/2011 11:05 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 01:02:11 -0500,
wrote:

On 10/9/11 12:22 AM, wrote:
Ever try to cut dampish wood on a saw-stop equipped saw???
Gets real expensive and real difficult real fast.


Everything I've read says it's not a problem.
Even so, here's the real issue. Who's cutting soaking wet wood with a
table saw anyway? There are too many other concerns for me to be using
wet wood before I would even approach a table saw with it. If you're
using wood that's wet enough to set off the sawstop, then you deserve to
pay the stupid tax.
Does not need to be soaking wet. Had one go off at the woodworking
club when a guy had wiped down a peice of wood to accentuate the grain
so he cood see which side he wanted to be "exposed. He wiped it with a
damp rag, put it into the saw, and BANG!!!!!!

Sounds like the saw worked as designed. Was there much rust on the TS
top after that experiment?


Nope, the table top was always protected with a good coat of
boe-sheild - which APPARENTLY is not an insulator.

Leon wrote:
On 10/9/2011 7:20 AM, HeyBub wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 4:18 pm, wrote:

Look for instructions on the web on how to defeat SawStop, thereby
saving $100 or so on the false positives.

Defeating the required SawStop will be as common as removing the
blade guard and might be as simple as clipping a couple of wires...

That should be just about as effective as clipping a couple of wires
inside your computer to circumvent Windows registration. Sheesh.

I said it "might" be as simple as clipping a couple of wires.
Defeating the saw stop may require buying an add-on electronic
module or maybe just removing the whole mechanism.


BTW, who exactly is "defeating" the SawStop? A business? An
individual?

Let's see how that works...
"Oh, I'm soooo sorry for you accident, Mr. HeyRube, but we at
Northwest South Federal Insurance and Bowling have investigated the
situation and since you "defeated" the safety mechanism, you're ****
out of luck. Would you be interested in adding your autos to your
insurance policy?"

And how does that conversation differ from one that would take place
after the owner removes the blade guard/splitter? Removing blade
guards is quite common; I've never seen a table saw in use (or for
sale on Craigslist) that had it's blade guard in place.

My impression is that neither conversation would take place because
the saw owner realizes the cause of the injury is entirely his.




That is pretty rich and explains your non founded hard on against
SawStop. You want to buy a premium saw and disable it's best feature.

SawStop turns even an economy saw into a "premium priced" saw.

On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:59:37 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 01:02:11 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

Ever try to cut dampish wood on a saw-stop equipped saw???
Gets real expensive and real difficult real fast.


Everything I've read says it's not a problem.

It's not a problem because the saw comes with a switch to turn off the
sensor. Of course, I'm waiting for the day that someone turns it off,
forgets to turn it back on, loses a finger, and sues SawStop for letting
it happen.
Was the "bypass" option on the first saws, or was it added to later
production because of the "false triggering" problem??

RicodJour wrote:

That cured me of sticking my foot out to catch things!!!!!!

That's funny. I remember doing the same thing - sticking out my foot
to break the fall of the inanimate object. I don't recall when I
stopped doing that, but I'm sure it was an ouch! moment that did the
trick.


Glad you qualified your actions with "inanimate." I could just imagine you
around babies...

On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 09:28:55 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Oct 9, 12:11Â*pm, wrote:

Â* I used to have a bad habit, as an apprentice mechanic, of sticking
my foot out to catch a dropped wrench etc, so it wouldn't skittar way
across the floor. One afternoon I went in to change the tanks on the
torch in regular shoes and the big two stage brass regulator slipped
from my hand.

That cured me of sticking my foot out to catch things!!!!!!

That's funny. I remember doing the same thing - sticking out my foot
to break the fall of the inanimate object. I don't recall when I
stopped doing that, but I'm sure it was an ouch! moment that did the
trick.

R
It was 2 months before I could wear a work boot, and over six before I
had a toe-nail again. Those old 2 stage brass regulators were
HEAVY!!!!

On Oct 9, 5:51*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 10/9/2011 11:05 AM, wrote:

* *Does not need to be soaking wet. Had one go off at the woodworking
club when a guy had wiped down a peice of wood to accentuate the grain
so he cood see which side he wanted to be "exposed. He wiped it with a
damp rag, put it into the saw, and BANG!!!!!!

Sounds like the saw worked as designed. *Was there much rust on the TS
top after that experiment?

Nope, the table top was always protected with a good coat of
boe-sheild - which APPARENTLY is not an insulator.

But what about the inside of the saw? The hidden parts that are
coated with a absorbent layer of sawdust sponge would be the real
problem. Then again - that's one way to keep the dust down - mist
it!

R

On 10/9/11 5:11 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 9, 5:51 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 10/9/2011 11:05 AM, wrote:

Does not need to be soaking wet. Had one go off at the woodworking
club when a guy had wiped down a peice of wood to accentuate the grain
so he cood see which side he wanted to be "exposed. He wiped it with a
damp rag, put it into the saw, and BANG!!!!!!

Sounds like the saw worked as designed. Was there much rust on the TS
top after that experiment?

Nope, the table top was always protected with a good coat of
boe-sheild - which APPARENTLY is not an insulator.

But what about the inside of the saw? The hidden parts that are
coated with a absorbent layer of sawdust sponge would be the real
problem. Then again - that's one way to keep the dust down - mist
it!

R

F'N OAK RUUUUUUUUUST!!!!!!!!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Oct 9, 5:44*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 9, 8:14 am, "HeyBub" wrote:

Try building a PT privacy fence.
A. PT wood is VERY wet
B. Many times pickets have to be cut to fit
C. The solution, I suppose, is a circular saw.

Now that must have been a difficult thought process! *I don't even use
my good circular saw on PT wood - the wood doesn't warrant it.

Uh, how do you get it to fit, gnaw the wood? Use a hand saw? Forget that
idea and erect chain-link? Screw the whole thing and let your chickens go
free-range?

Notice the comparative modifier in there? I use my beater saw to cut
beater wood. It's the same one I use to cut concrete with a diamond
blade if I don't have the cutoff saw. It's an old Makita 5007 that
refuses to die no matter how much I torture the poor sucker. The
thing hates me with a passion and I reciprocate the sentiment.

BTW, have you ever paid more than $150 for a tablesaw, new or used?
You're the Harbor Freight guy, so I tend to doubt it.

No, but I'll have to if SawStop has its way. I did buy an economy table saw
(used) just two days ago for $30 from a Craigslist ad.

It's going to be my retirement investment.

So the SawStop - indeed any new saw - won't affect you at all. Got
it.

R

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 13:05:48 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/8/2011 9:49 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:52:29 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/8/2011 2:45 PM, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 10/8/2011 3:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 14:02:40 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 11:58 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 12:31 pm, wrote:

I predict that the Supreme Court will rule along the lines of the
testimony of the expert witness was biased and thus not acceptable.

I think it's a fairly safe bet that the Supreme Court will overturn
it. I'm glad the suit happened, though, and got so much attention.
The major tool companies have had plenty of time to start retooling
and upgrading safety since SawStop came on the scene. They've known
which way the wind was blowing and something needed to be shaken
loose.

R

Totally agree! I am not too happy about SawStop pushing their product
through government intervention however I am equally unhappy about all
the other other manufacturers that have decided that more safety is too
high a price to pay.

Do you know what that "price" was?

Furthermore, all the people I know who have one in their shops have had
triggers. Some of them were on wet wood, stray metal or other nuisance
reasons, some were for no known reason. None were for human/blade
contact. Each trigger costs at least $100, often more depending on the
value of the blade. This is a solution looking for a problem, especially
when you consider that a standard guard, or any after market guard would
solve the problem just as well.

Stuart

And every false trigger that I have heard of was taken care of by SawStop.

Nice! They charge you double the regular rate for a saw of that
particular quality (an extra $1,600 or so) and then give you a couple
$50 freebies to make up for it. Whatta guy!

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide
Have you priced a Powermatic or The new Unisaw "with out" any the blade
brake lately?

I linked to a price sheet in my earlier post, but the aim there was
looking for the lowest price. Dayum, Delter sure is proud of their
saws nowadays! http://www.toolseeker.com/WdWkMac/TableSaw.htm
Griz and the majority of the rest, even the Lagunas, are under $2k.

Oh, I see that SawStop finally has a sub-$2k saw on the market. I
thought they were all about $3500. I sit corrected.


Are you normally this ignorant or do you simply have a
bug up your butt?

Um, -now- who's got the bug? BUT, Leon, do you feel that the
lawsuit we're discussing here is good and just? Or do you feel as most
of us do that it's a farce and a complete miscarriage of justice?

Safer tools are a good concept and I'll likely buy some when I'm ready
(read "funded"), but not from SawStop. To say that I dislike Gass'
tactics is a major understatement.


P.S: You'd **** if you saw Dina's (my saur) gaper of a top. She's as
safe as a square cutterhead. My crosscut sled saves me from it most
often.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On 10/9/2011 4:20 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 13:05:48 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 9:49 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:52:29 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/8/2011 2:45 PM, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 10/8/2011 3:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 14:02:40 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 11:58 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 12:31 pm, wrote:

I predict that the Supreme Court will rule along the lines of the
testimony of the expert witness was biased and thus not acceptable.

I think it's a fairly safe bet that the Supreme Court will overturn
it. I'm glad the suit happened, though, and got so much attention.
The major tool companies have had plenty of time to start retooling
and upgrading safety since SawStop came on the scene. They've known
which way the wind was blowing and something needed to be shaken
loose.

R

Totally agree! I am not too happy about SawStop pushing their product
through government intervention however I am equally unhappy about all
the other other manufacturers that have decided that more safety is too
high a price to pay.

Do you know what that "price" was?

Furthermore, all the people I know who have one in their shops have had
triggers. Some of them were on wet wood, stray metal or other nuisance
reasons, some were for no known reason. None were for human/blade
contact. Each trigger costs at least $100, often more depending on the
value of the blade. This is a solution looking for a problem, especially
when you consider that a standard guard, or any after market guard would
solve the problem just as well.

Stuart

And every false trigger that I have heard of was taken care of by SawStop.

Nice! They charge you double the regular rate for a saw of that
particular quality (an extra $1,600 or so) and then give you a couple
$50 freebies to make up for it. Whatta guy!

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide
Have you priced a Powermatic or The new Unisaw "with out" any the blade
brake lately? Are you normally this ignorant or do you simply have a
bug up your butt?

X5s are still available for a *LOT* less than $3500; a perfectly good saw.


A perfectly good saw but it is fair to compare apples to apples, the
latest design to the latest design.

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 17:49:08 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2011 4:20 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 13:05:48 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 9:49 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:52:29 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/8/2011 2:45 PM, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 10/8/2011 3:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 14:02:40 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 11:58 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 12:31 pm, wrote:

I predict that the Supreme Court will rule along the lines of the
testimony of the expert witness was biased and thus not acceptable.

I think it's a fairly safe bet that the Supreme Court will overturn
it. I'm glad the suit happened, though, and got so much attention.
The major tool companies have had plenty of time to start retooling
and upgrading safety since SawStop came on the scene. They've known
which way the wind was blowing and something needed to be shaken
loose.

R

Totally agree! I am not too happy about SawStop pushing their product
through government intervention however I am equally unhappy about all
the other other manufacturers that have decided that more safety is too
high a price to pay.

Do you know what that "price" was?

Furthermore, all the people I know who have one in their shops have had
triggers. Some of them were on wet wood, stray metal or other nuisance
reasons, some were for no known reason. None were for human/blade
contact. Each trigger costs at least $100, often more depending on the
value of the blade. This is a solution looking for a problem, especially
when you consider that a standard guard, or any after market guard would
solve the problem just as well.

Stuart

And every false trigger that I have heard of was taken care of by SawStop.

Nice! They charge you double the regular rate for a saw of that
particular quality (an extra $1,600 or so) and then give you a couple
$50 freebies to make up for it. Whatta guy!

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide
Have you priced a Powermatic or The new Unisaw "with out" any the blade
brake lately? Are you normally this ignorant or do you simply have a
bug up your butt?

X5s are still available for a *LOT* less than $3500; a perfectly good saw.


A perfectly good saw but it is fair to compare apples to apples, the
latest design to the latest design.

It's more fair to compare utility to utility. When I bought my X5, it was a
no-brainer, over the SS at over twice the price. Suggesting a SS wasn't even
worth the giggle from SWMBO.

On 10/9/2011 5:23 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 13:05:48 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/8/2011 9:49 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:52:29 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/8/2011 2:45 PM, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 10/8/2011 3:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 14:02:40 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 11:58 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 12:31 pm, wrote:

I predict that the Supreme Court will rule along the lines of the
testimony of the expert witness was biased and thus not acceptable.

I think it's a fairly safe bet that the Supreme Court will overturn
it. I'm glad the suit happened, though, and got so much attention.
The major tool companies have had plenty of time to start retooling
and upgrading safety since SawStop came on the scene. They've known
which way the wind was blowing and something needed to be shaken
loose.

R

Totally agree! I am not too happy about SawStop pushing their product
through government intervention however I am equally unhappy about all
the other other manufacturers that have decided that more safety is too
high a price to pay.

Do you know what that "price" was?

Furthermore, all the people I know who have one in their shops have had
triggers. Some of them were on wet wood, stray metal or other nuisance
reasons, some were for no known reason. None were for human/blade
contact. Each trigger costs at least $100, often more depending on the
value of the blade. This is a solution looking for a problem, especially
when you consider that a standard guard, or any after market guard would
solve the problem just as well.

Stuart

And every false trigger that I have heard of was taken care of by SawStop.

Nice! They charge you double the regular rate for a saw of that
particular quality (an extra $1,600 or so) and then give you a couple
$50 freebies to make up for it. Whatta guy!

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide
Have you priced a Powermatic or The new Unisaw "with out" any the blade
brake lately?

I linked to a price sheet in my earlier post, but the aim there was
looking for the lowest price. Dayum, Delter sure is proud of their
saws nowadays! http://www.toolseeker.com/WdWkMac/TableSaw.htm
Griz and the majority of the rest, even the Lagunas, are under $2k.

Oh, I see that SawStop finally has a sub-$2k saw on the market. I
thought they were all about $3500. I sit corrected.


Are you normally this ignorant or do you simply have a
bug up your butt?

Um, -now- who's got the bug? BUT, Leon, do you feel that the
lawsuit we're discussing here is good and just? Or do you feel as most
of us do that it's a farce and a complete miscarriage of justice?


If you are talking about the dip that cut his finger off and won the
$1m, no that was stupid. Nor do I think that the government should say
that the SawStop technology should be mandatory. Having said that I
still admire and like the SawStop. When it comes to my safety politics
and ill feelings don't factor in. If I buy a new saw it will most
likely a SawStop.



Safer tools are a good concept and I'll likely buy some when I'm ready
(read "funded"), but not from SawStop. To say that I dislike Gass'
tactics is a major understatement.

Well there is where you and I differ. I don't let my emotions keep me
from making a sensible decision. Because you are interested you know
about the Gass tactics. I assure you, you buy products now that you
would feel the same about if you knew the politics involved. Take freon
for instance. R12 was perfectly adequate. But DuPont's patent ran out
and the new refrigerant that they developed was mandated to be used. Now
if you want to talk about percentages of price increase, I used to buy
R12, 1,000 cases at a time at about 67 cents per pound. IRC a 30 lb
bottle of the r128 sold in the $200.00 range.

The old R12 was supposedly bad for the ozone layer which is still a
supposed problem although R12 is all but gone. The refrigerant that
replaced R12 was friendlier to the ozone, but more harmful to humans.
There were very strict rules and special equipment to contain the new
freon even though it was environmentally friendly, except to humans.
They did not want any more than necessary any human contact. There were
numerous publications concerning that in the automotive trades magazines
back in the mid 80's. The SawStop story pails by comparison.





-- Thomas Jefferson

On 10/9/2011 4:47 PM, HeyBub wrote:
Leon wrote:

Try building a PT privacy fence.
A. PT wood is VERY wet
B. Many times pickets have to be cut to fit
C. The solution, I suppose, is a circular saw.



That is why I always use/used a circular saw for all cuts on the 30+
fences that I have built. And no not "all" PT wood is very wet, I
often used kiln dried PT to guard against excessive warping.

I agree. I stack fence wood in the garage for a couple of months, then take
the warped pickets back to the vendor. Drying like that minimizes the gaps
between pickets if they dry on the vine.

Sill, there are times, such as repairing a broken picket that the neighbor's
dogs have knocked down...



I really did not have the luxury of letting PT wood set for months. I
was being paid for these fences. My experience with building fences
taught me to buy better materials to start with, namely cedar pickets,
I use PT for ground contact, posts, bottom rot rails, and for the 3
rails to attach the pickets to. No warping with 3 rails and the PT rot
board on the bottom prevented morning due from wicking up the bottom of
the pickets. The rot board also eliminated the need for a string to
level the tops of the pickets.

On 10/9/2011 4:52 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:59:37 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 01:02:11 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

Ever try to cut dampish wood on a saw-stop equipped saw???
Gets real expensive and real difficult real fast.


Everything I've read says it's not a problem.

It's not a problem because the saw comes with a switch to turn off the
sensor. Of course, I'm waiting for the day that someone turns it off,
forgets to turn it back on, loses a finger, and sues SawStop for letting
it happen.
Was the "bypass" option on the first saws, or was it added to later
production because of the "false triggering" problem??

It has always been there, the designer was an avid woodworker so he knew
what would be needed. Additionally I inquired about 10 years ago before
the saw was available as to whether the stop would engage after the saw
motor is turned off, it does.

On 10/9/2011 4:29 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 12:28:40 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2011 10:11 AM, Jim Northey wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Oct 9, 1:22 am, wrote:

Ever try to cut dampish wood on a saw-stop equipped saw???
Gets real expensive and real difficult real fast.

You can't beat stupid. Make something idiotproof and they just come up
with a better idiot, and another dozen lawyers.

This has been gone over before and you're still spreading
disinformation.

From SawStop's FAQ:

6. Will cutting green or “wet” wood activate the SawStop safety
system?
SawStop saws cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the wood
is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist when
cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure treated, then the
wood may be sufficiently conductive to trigger the brake. Accordingly,
the best practice is to dry wet or green wood before cutting by
standing it inside and apart from other wood for about one day. You
can also cut wet pressure treated wood and other conductive material
by placing the saw in bypass mode to deactivate the safety system.

And after activating the bypass, some one then cuts a finger off . Do they
now sue the makers of Sawstop for telling them to turn off a feature that
they pushed through to stop that from happening ?
Jim



Not at all, the operator turned the system off. He pays the stupid tax
and hopefully he has insurance to cover the thousands of dollars that
his mistake just cost him.

That theory doesn't work for guards. Why should it for the bypass?

What theory? Not all operations performed on a TS can be done with
factory guards. It is a correct procedure to remove the guard for
certain procedures.

On 10/9/2011 4:52 PM, HeyBub wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 10/9/2011 7:20 AM, HeyBub wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 4:18 pm, wrote:

Look for instructions on the web on how to defeat SawStop, thereby
saving $100 or so on the false positives.

Defeating the required SawStop will be as common as removing the
blade guard and might be as simple as clipping a couple of wires...

That should be just about as effective as clipping a couple of wires
inside your computer to circumvent Windows registration. Sheesh.

I said it "might" be as simple as clipping a couple of wires.
Defeating the saw stop may require buying an add-on electronic
module or maybe just removing the whole mechanism.


BTW, who exactly is "defeating" the SawStop? A business? An
individual?

Let's see how that works...
"Oh, I'm soooo sorry for you accident, Mr. HeyRube, but we at
Northwest South Federal Insurance and Bowling have investigated the
situation and since you "defeated" the safety mechanism, you're ****
out of luck. Would you be interested in adding your autos to your
insurance policy?"

And how does that conversation differ from one that would take place
after the owner removes the blade guard/splitter? Removing blade
guards is quite common; I've never seen a table saw in use (or for
sale on Craigslist) that had it's blade guard in place.

My impression is that neither conversation would take place because
the saw owner realizes the cause of the injury is entirely his.




That is pretty rich and explains your non founded hard on against
SawStop. You want to buy a premium saw and disable it's best feature.

SawStop turns even an economy saw into a "premium priced" saw.

That is why you would disable the safety feature???

And as far as whether you consider it a premium priced saw or not, I
don't think it does. That is strictly a personal preference call. If
you don't want to spend the money, buy a used saw or buy the saw you
want now in the event that this is required in the future. Or wait and
see.

On 10/9/2011 4:31 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 12:16:38 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2011 10:27 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 21:40:08 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 7:53 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:56:37 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 3:18 PM, HeyBub wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 1:50 pm, Gerald wrote:

This may be the beginning of the end of reasonably priced table saws
for occasional users like me. I still have my hand saws.

They're dangerous, too. A common injury back in the day was
"carpenter's thumb". That's where the saw jumped the kerf and bit
into the back of the thumb and cut the tendon. That left the poor sod
with a thumb that could be flexed but not straightened.

There simply will not be an overnight change in the entire saw
market. If and when the new regs roll out it will mean that only new
tools would be required to conform to the new and improved safety
regulations. Used tools will still be available, though the prices of
those will probably rise a bit as well. The regulations would have a
date of compliance set at some point in the future, which will allow
people to start hoarding existing saws, new and used.

Take a gamble - buy a dozen hobbiest tablesaws from Harbor Freight.
Shouldn't cost more than a few hundred and the potential payback might
be double that...if you live that long.


Look for instructions on the web on how to defeat SawStop, thereby saving
$100 or so on the false positives.

Defeating the required SawStop will be as common as removing the blade guard
and might be as simple as clipping a couple of wires...


Contact SawStop and ask them how many false stops that they have not
helped the owner out with. From what I have always heard by those that
had a story to go with the situation, SawStop always provided the
replacement parts.

Do they fork over $125 for a new blade, too?

Not sure but I recall some one saying that one must take responsibility
for ones mistakes.

Mistake? We were talking about a false-trip. The "mistake" is the SawStop's.

...or are you talking about the mistake being buying a SawStop? ;-)

I am thinking more in lines of, what if whose fault it cannot be proven
one way or the other. Perhaps the blade was touched and it was not
actually a false trip. It is not uncommon for a manufacturer to give
the customer the benefit of the doubt and replace parts but not accessories.

In that case, how can it *ever* be proven, short of blood dripping off the
mechanism.

Consider the fact that you CAN touch the spinning blade and set off the
trigger and you can touch the spinning blade with out harm on regular
saw. If you touch the mid side of the blade there are no teeth. There
are no guarantees either way but it is in Sawstops best interest to
assist in questionable incidents but not take full responsibility.
Personally I don't know if they have replaced the blades in the past or
not but the early owners that were having false triggers were happily
reporting the participating by Sawstop to remedy the situation. They
seemed content with the steps taken by Sawstop.

Until you own the product you really can't **** and moan about what
might or might not be a fact about their customer service after the
sale. By all indicators that I have read a vast majority of the owners
are more than satisfied.

On 10/9/2011 5:59 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 17:49:08 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2011 4:20 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 13:05:48 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 9:49 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:52:29 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/8/2011 2:45 PM, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 10/8/2011 3:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 14:02:40 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 11:58 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 12:31 pm, wrote:

I predict that the Supreme Court will rule along the lines of the
testimony of the expert witness was biased and thus not acceptable.

I think it's a fairly safe bet that the Supreme Court will overturn
it. I'm glad the suit happened, though, and got so much attention.
The major tool companies have had plenty of time to start retooling
and upgrading safety since SawStop came on the scene. They've known
which way the wind was blowing and something needed to be shaken
loose.

R

Totally agree! I am not too happy about SawStop pushing their product
through government intervention however I am equally unhappy about all
the other other manufacturers that have decided that more safety is too
high a price to pay.

Do you know what that "price" was?

Furthermore, all the people I know who have one in their shops have had
triggers. Some of them were on wet wood, stray metal or other nuisance
reasons, some were for no known reason. None were for human/blade
contact. Each trigger costs at least $100, often more depending on the
value of the blade. This is a solution looking for a problem, especially
when you consider that a standard guard, or any after market guard would
solve the problem just as well.

Stuart

And every false trigger that I have heard of was taken care of by SawStop.

Nice! They charge you double the regular rate for a saw of that
particular quality (an extra $1,600 or so) and then give you a couple
$50 freebies to make up for it. Whatta guy!

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide
Have you priced a Powermatic or The new Unisaw "with out" any the blade
brake lately? Are you normally this ignorant or do you simply have a
bug up your butt?

X5s are still available for a *LOT* less than $3500; a perfectly good saw.


A perfectly good saw but it is fair to compare apples to apples, the
latest design to the latest design.

It's more fair to compare utility to utility. When I bought my X5, it was a
no-brainer, over the SS at over twice the price. Suggesting a SS wasn't even
worth the giggle from SWMBO.


IIRC the X5's were selling at an all time low price. Not saying that
they were not good saws, just that they were probably below market
price. Either way the latest version is in line with the price of a SS
considering that it has no blade stop feature.

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 18:40:19 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2011 5:59 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 17:49:08 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2011 4:20 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 13:05:48 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 9:49 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:52:29 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/8/2011 2:45 PM, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 10/8/2011 3:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 14:02:40 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 11:58 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 12:31 pm, wrote:

I predict that the Supreme Court will rule along the lines of the
testimony of the expert witness was biased and thus not acceptable.

I think it's a fairly safe bet that the Supreme Court will overturn
it. I'm glad the suit happened, though, and got so much attention.
The major tool companies have had plenty of time to start retooling
and upgrading safety since SawStop came on the scene. They've known
which way the wind was blowing and something needed to be shaken
loose.

R

Totally agree! I am not too happy about SawStop pushing their product
through government intervention however I am equally unhappy about all
the other other manufacturers that have decided that more safety is too
high a price to pay.

Do you know what that "price" was?

Furthermore, all the people I know who have one in their shops have had
triggers. Some of them were on wet wood, stray metal or other nuisance
reasons, some were for no known reason. None were for human/blade
contact. Each trigger costs at least $100, often more depending on the
value of the blade. This is a solution looking for a problem, especially
when you consider that a standard guard, or any after market guard would
solve the problem just as well.

Stuart

And every false trigger that I have heard of was taken care of by SawStop.

Nice! They charge you double the regular rate for a saw of that
particular quality (an extra $1,600 or so) and then give you a couple
$50 freebies to make up for it. Whatta guy!

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide
Have you priced a Powermatic or The new Unisaw "with out" any the blade
brake lately? Are you normally this ignorant or do you simply have a
bug up your butt?

X5s are still available for a *LOT* less than $3500; a perfectly good saw.


A perfectly good saw but it is fair to compare apples to apples, the
latest design to the latest design.

It's more fair to compare utility to utility. When I bought my X5, it was a
no-brainer, over the SS at over twice the price. Suggesting a SS wasn't even
worth the giggle from SWMBO.


IIRC the X5's were selling at an all time low price. Not saying that
they were not good saws, just that they were probably below market
price. Either way the latest version is in line with the price of a SS
considering that it has no blade stop feature.

By all reports, the current Unisaur isn't selling so well, either. There are
others.

On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 15:16:40 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour wrote:

On Oct 9, 5:44*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 9, 8:14 am, "HeyBub" wrote:

Try building a PT privacy fence.
A. PT wood is VERY wet
B. Many times pickets have to be cut to fit
C. The solution, I suppose, is a circular saw.

Now that must have been a difficult thought process! *I don't even use
my good circular saw on PT wood - the wood doesn't warrant it.

Uh, how do you get it to fit, gnaw the wood? Use a hand saw? Forget that
idea and erect chain-link? Screw the whole thing and let your chickens go
free-range?

Notice the comparative modifier in there? I use my beater saw to cut
beater wood. It's the same one I use to cut concrete with a diamond
blade if I don't have the cutoff saw. It's an old Makita 5007 that
refuses to die no matter how much I torture the poor sucker. The
thing hates me with a passion and I reciprocate the sentiment.

BTW, have you ever paid more than $150 for a tablesaw, new or used?
You're the Harbor Freight guy, so I tend to doubt it.

No, but I'll have to if SawStop has its way. I did buy an economy table saw
(used) just two days ago for $30 from a Craigslist ad.

It's going to be my retirement investment.

So the SawStop - indeed any new saw - won't affect you at all. Got
it.

First they came for the Jews...

On 2011-10-09 10:47:47 -0400, "J. Clarke" said:

But Edison also did not lobby for legislation that required all other
forms of light to be replaced with his electric lights--he was content
to let the market take its course.

Not so fast, Bunky...

http://techrights.org/2010/09/03/pat...e-icon-shamed/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_...s#Current_wars

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 18:22:18 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2011 4:29 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 12:28:40 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2011 10:11 AM, Jim Northey wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Oct 9, 1:22 am, wrote:

Ever try to cut dampish wood on a saw-stop equipped saw???
Gets real expensive and real difficult real fast.

You can't beat stupid. Make something idiotproof and they just come up
with a better idiot, and another dozen lawyers.

This has been gone over before and you're still spreading
disinformation.

From SawStop's FAQ:

6. Will cutting green or “wet” wood activate the SawStop safety
system?
SawStop saws cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the wood
is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist when
cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure treated, then the
wood may be sufficiently conductive to trigger the brake. Accordingly,
the best practice is to dry wet or green wood before cutting by
standing it inside and apart from other wood for about one day. You
can also cut wet pressure treated wood and other conductive material
by placing the saw in bypass mode to deactivate the safety system.

And after activating the bypass, some one then cuts a finger off . Do they
now sue the makers of Sawstop for telling them to turn off a feature that
they pushed through to stop that from happening ?
Jim



Not at all, the operator turned the system off. He pays the stupid tax
and hopefully he has insurance to cover the thousands of dollars that
his mistake just cost him.

That theory doesn't work for guards. Why should it for the bypass?

What theory?

"He pays the stupid tax". No, we all pay his "stupid tax" whenever someone
wins such a lawsuit.

Not all operations performed on a TS can be done with factory guards.
It is a correct procedure to remove the guard for
certain procedures.

Sure (how does SS do DADOs?), but the suit *was* about removed guards
(fence?). Damned fools will still hurt themselves.

On 2011-10-09 08:14:13 -0400, "HeyBub" said:

Try building a PT privacy fence.
A. PT wood is VERY wet
B. Many times pickets have to be cut to fit
C. The solution, I suppose, is a circular saw.

OR, turn off the sensing circuit.

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 18:37:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2011 4:31 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 12:16:38 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/9/2011 10:27 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 21:40:08 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 7:53 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:56:37 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 10/8/2011 3:18 PM, HeyBub wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 8, 1:50 pm, Gerald wrote:

This may be the beginning of the end of reasonably priced table saws
for occasional users like me. I still have my hand saws.

They're dangerous, too. A common injury back in the day was
"carpenter's thumb". That's where the saw jumped the kerf and bit
into the back of the thumb and cut the tendon. That left the poor sod
with a thumb that could be flexed but not straightened.

There simply will not be an overnight change in the entire saw
market. If and when the new regs roll out it will mean that only new
tools would be required to conform to the new and improved safety
regulations. Used tools will still be available, though the prices of
those will probably rise a bit as well. The regulations would have a
date of compliance set at some point in the future, which will allow
people to start hoarding existing saws, new and used.

Take a gamble - buy a dozen hobbiest tablesaws from Harbor Freight.
Shouldn't cost more than a few hundred and the potential payback might
be double that...if you live that long.


Look for instructions on the web on how to defeat SawStop, thereby saving
$100 or so on the false positives.

Defeating the required SawStop will be as common as removing the blade guard
and might be as simple as clipping a couple of wires...


Contact SawStop and ask them how many false stops that they have not
helped the owner out with. From what I have always heard by those that
had a story to go with the situation, SawStop always provided the
replacement parts.

Do they fork over $125 for a new blade, too?

Not sure but I recall some one saying that one must take responsibility
for ones mistakes.

Mistake? We were talking about a false-trip. The "mistake" is the SawStop's.

...or are you talking about the mistake being buying a SawStop? ;-)

I am thinking more in lines of, what if whose fault it cannot be proven
one way or the other. Perhaps the blade was touched and it was not
actually a false trip. It is not uncommon for a manufacturer to give
the customer the benefit of the doubt and replace parts but not accessories.

In that case, how can it *ever* be proven, short of blood dripping off the
mechanism.

Consider the fact that you CAN touch the spinning blade and set off the
trigger and you can touch the spinning blade with out harm on regular
saw. If you touch the mid side of the blade there are no teeth. There
are no guarantees either way but it is in Sawstops best interest to
assist in questionable incidents but not take full responsibility.

The fact is that they have no way of knowing. Any replacement program is
guesswork, at best.

Personally I don't know if they have replaced the blades in the past or
not but the early owners that were having false triggers were happily
reporting the participating by Sawstop to remedy the situation. They
seemed content with the steps taken by Sawstop.

Until you own the product you really can't **** and moan about what
might or might not be a fact about their customer service after the
sale. By all indicators that I have read a vast majority of the owners
are more than satisfied.

Nonsense. There is good reason I did *NOT* buy a SawStop.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Nonsense. There is good reason I did *NOT* buy a SawStop.

Well, as long as you said that much, lets here it! : ) I'm planning ot
purchase in the spring, or sooner if I run accross something. I have
been leaning toward the Unisaur.

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 20:21:48 -0400, Bill wrote:

wrote:

Nonsense. There is good reason I did *NOT* buy a SawStop.

Well, as long as you said that much, lets here it! : )

I already said. It was more than twice the price of the Unisaur. It is *not*
worth it.

I'm planning ot purchase in the spring, or sooner if I run accross
something. I have been leaning toward the Unisaur.

An x5 is a good choice. The new style is stupid expensive.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 20:21:48 -0400, wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Nonsense. There is good reason I did *NOT* buy a SawStop.

Well, as long as you said that much, lets here it! : )

I already said. It was more than twice the price of the Unisaur. It is *not*
worth it.

I'm planning ot purchase in the spring, or sooner if I run accross
something. I have been leaning toward the Unisaur.

An x5 is a good choice. The new style is stupid expensive.

I was under the impression the "x5" was more of a marketing gimmick.
Do you have a link to what you are referring to? My brief research
suggests that the X5 Unisaw was a circa 2006, or so, machine.

Thanks,
Bill

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 18:08:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 10/9/2011 5:23 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 13:05:48 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Have you priced a Powermatic or The new Unisaw "with out" any the blade
brake lately?

I linked to a price sheet in my earlier post, but the aim there was
looking for the lowest price. Dayum, Delter sure is proud of their
saws nowadays! http://www.toolseeker.com/WdWkMac/TableSaw.htm
Griz and the majority of the rest, even the Lagunas, are under $2k.

Oh, I see that SawStop finally has a sub-$2k saw on the market. I
thought they were all about $3500. I sit corrected.


Are you normally this ignorant or do you simply have a
bug up your butt?

Um, -now- who's got the bug? BUT, Leon, do you feel that the
lawsuit we're discussing here is good and just? Or do you feel as most
of us do that it's a farce and a complete miscarriage of justice?


If you are talking about the dip that cut his finger off and won the
$1m, no that was stupid. Nor do I think that the government should say
that the SawStop technology should be mandatory. Having said that I
still admire and like the SawStop. When it comes to my safety politics
and ill feelings don't factor in. If I buy a new saw it will most
likely a SawStop.

I just can't support anyone doing underhanded business any more. I
stopped with Sears 30 years ago and won't start with Gass today.


Safer tools are a good concept and I'll likely buy some when I'm ready
(read "funded"), but not from SawStop. To say that I dislike Gass'
tactics is a major understatement.

Well there is where you and I differ. I don't let my emotions keep me
from making a sensible decision. Because you are interested you know
about the Gass tactics.



I assure you, you buy products now that you
would feel the same about if you knew the politics involved. Take freon
for instance. R12 was perfectly adequate. But DuPont's patent ran out
and the new refrigerant that they developed was mandated to be used. Now
if you want to talk about percentages of price increase, I used to buy
R12, 1,000 cases at a time at about 67 cents per pound. IRC a 30 lb
bottle of the r128 sold in the $200.00 range.

The old R12 was supposedly bad for the ozone layer which is still a
supposed problem although R12 is all but gone. The refrigerant that
replaced R12 was friendlier to the ozone, but more harmful to humans.
There were very strict rules and special equipment to contain the new
freon even though it was environmentally friendly, except to humans.
They did not want any more than necessary any human contact. There were
numerous publications concerning that in the automotive trades magazines
back in the mid 80's.

I was there, doing auto A/C when the law took effect. Uckinfay
Eeniesgray. From there, they went on to spotted owls, the elusive
Devil's Hole Pupfish, silicone implant terrors, and AGWK.

God help us!


The SawStop story pails by comparison.

I understand that it pales, too. :^)

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

When all is said and done there are only two things that concern me;
1. Is the manufacturer going to fix my saw (and replace the blade) if the
damn thing malfunctions (ruins my blade and stops my work for the day)

2. How much is it going to add to the cost of the saw I buy.

Max

On Oct 9, 8:08*pm, "
wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 18:22:18 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 10/9/2011 4:29 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 12:28:40 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet *wrote:

On 10/9/2011 10:11 AM, Jim Northey wrote:
* wrote in message
...
On Oct 9, 1:22 am, wrote:

Ever try to cut dampish wood on a saw-stop equipped saw???
Gets real expensive and real difficult real fast.

You can't beat stupid. Make something idiotproof and they just come up
with a better idiot, and another dozen lawyers.

This has been gone over before and you're still spreading
disinformation.

* From SawStop's FAQ:

6. Will cutting green or wet wood activate the SawStop safety
system?
SawStop saws cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the wood
is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist when
cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure treated, then the
wood may be sufficiently conductive to trigger the brake. Accordingly,
the best practice is to dry wet or green wood before cutting by
standing it inside and apart from other wood for about one day. You
can also cut wet pressure treated wood and other conductive material
by placing the saw in bypass mode to deactivate the safety system.

And after activating the bypass, some one then cuts a finger off . Do they
now sue the makers of Sawstop for telling them to turn off a feature that
they pushed *through *to stop that from happening ?
* *Jim

Not at all, *the operator turned the system off. *He pays the stupid tax
and hopefully he has insurance to cover the thousands of dollars that
his mistake just cost him.

That theory doesn't work for guards. *Why should it for the bypass?

What theory?

"He pays the stupid tax". *No, we all pay his "stupid tax" whenever someone
wins such a lawsuit.

Not all operations performed on a TS can be done with factory guards. *
It is a correct procedure to remove the guard for
certain procedures.

Sure (how does SS do DADOs?), but the suit *was* about removed guards
(fence?). *Damned fools will still hurt themselves.

There's a web site that answers questions about the SawStop. It's
www.sawstop.com.

You won't be giving up your soul if you visit the web site and get
such information yourself. Promise.

R

The twelve jurors, that were present during the testimonies of the ``real``
story, were all complete idiots or all paid by the SawStop people to support
them. I am sure the people here are all better informed what actually
happened than any stupid jurors could possibly be.

American justice is just a crock anyway. Why bother.

----------
"Han" wrote in message ...

The ridiculously frivolous suit of an ignorant laborer injured because of
stupidity has been upheld at the Appellate Court:
http://www.ca1.uscourts.gov/pdf.opin...-1824P-01A.pdf



--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Osorio largely relied on the testimony of his witness, Dr.
Stephen Gass, inventor of "SawStop,"

Neat trick. You invent something, can't sell it to the industry, so
you get people to sue in hopes of forcing industry to adopt your
product/design. Then again, it just may have been a slick attorney
that turned Gass onto this idea. We may start seeing Ambulance Chasers
advertising on This Old House!

Ah, America . . .

On Oct 8, 12:31*pm, wrote:
On 08 Oct 2011 14:42:57 GMT, Han wrote:


I predict that the Supreme Court will rule along the lines of the
testimony of the expert witness was biased and thus not acceptable.

John

Hard for that to happen as the issue was not raised in the appeal. The
Court cannot rule on aspects of the rial not raisd in the appeals
themselves. (I think, not a lawyer spokesperson)

On Oct 8, 2:40*pm, Richard wrote:

Good catch!

I believe Mark swiped that thought from Shakespear...