It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more than
1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other day
without one, which I ended up doing twice. So, tonight I went searching
online for a level. I assume that levels with magnets stick to the studs in
walls (is that correct?). Any other uses for a "magnetic level"? I'm
focusing now on the 24" size. Stanley makes several, basic version from
about $16 up to a FatMax Extreme version which is supposed to be 5x as
strong and accurate to .0005"/inch. for about $35. I would anticipate also
using the level to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a homemade workbench
on a concrete floor with several cracks (hench not level). I know that the
workbench and vise should be level! I expect that a Starrett combination
square that I expect to have by then will be helpful too in this regard--at
least I should be able to see to it that the top of the bench and the top of
the vise are coplanar. So based on the installations I have suggested
above, what else do you think I need to know about selecting a level?
Reliability is important, of course. I read somewhere that those with
"caps" on the ends (which may include the ones I mentioned) have the
potential to be less reliable.

Thank you,
Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...

It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more
than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other
day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So, tonight I went
searching online for a level. I assume that levels with magnets stick to
the studs in walls (is that correct?). Any other uses for a "magnetic
level"? I'm focusing now on the 24" size. Stanley makes several, basic
version from about $16 up to a FatMax Extreme version which is supposed to
be 5x as strong and accurate to .0005"/inch. for about $35. I would
anticipate also using the level to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a
homemade workbench on a concrete floor with several cracks (hench not
level). I know that the workbench and vise should be level! I expect
that a Starrett combination square that I expect to have by then will be
helpful too in this regard--at least I should be able to see to it that
the top of the bench and the top of the vise are coplanar. So based on
the installations I have suggested above, what else do you think I need to
know about selecting a level? Reliability is important, of course. I read
somewhere that those with "caps" on the ends (which may include the ones I
mentioned) have the potential to be less reliable.

Thank you,
Bill


Look at this one (9" Digital Level w/Laser)!

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...7&cookietest=1

"Bill" wrote in message
...

"Bill" wrote in message
...

It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more
than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other
day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So, tonight I went
searching online for a level. I assume that levels with magnets stick to
the studs in walls (is that correct?). Any other uses for a "magnetic
level"? I'm focusing now on the 24" size. Stanley makes several, basic
version from about $16 up to a FatMax Extreme version which is supposed
to be 5x as strong and accurate to .0005"/inch. for about $35. I would
anticipate also using the level to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a
homemade workbench on a concrete floor with several cracks (hench not
level). I know that the workbench and vise should be level! I expect
that a Starrett combination square that I expect to have by then will be
helpful too in this regard--at least I should be able to see to it that
the top of the bench and the top of the vise are coplanar. So based on
the installations I have suggested above, what else do you think I need
to know about selecting a level? Reliability is important, of course. I
read somewhere that those with "caps" on the ends (which may include the
ones I mentioned) have the potential to be less reliable.

Thank you,
Bill


Look at this one (9" Digital Level w/Laser)!

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...7&cookietest=1

Here's another that shows degrees:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...0&ddkey=Search

Bill wrote:
It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more than
1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other day
without one, which I ended up doing twice. So, tonight I went searching
online for a level. I assume that levels with magnets stick to the studs in
walls (is that correct?). Any other uses for a "magnetic level"? I'm
focusing now on the 24" size. Stanley makes several, basic version from
about $16 up to a FatMax Extreme version which is supposed to be 5x as
strong and accurate to .0005"/inch. for about $35. I would anticipate also
using the level to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a homemade workbench
on a concrete floor with several cracks (hench not level). I know that the
workbench and vise should be level! I expect that a Starrett combination
square that I expect to have by then will be helpful too in this regard--at
least I should be able to see to it that the top of the bench and the top of
the vise are coplanar. So based on the installations I have suggested
above, what else do you think I need to know about selecting a level?
Reliability is important, of course. I read somewhere that those with
"caps" on the ends (which may include the ones I mentioned) have the
potential to be less reliable.

Thank you,
Bill


Can't decide if you're asking or telling. I have noticed that nearly
all the studs around here are non-magnetic or non-ferrous, being wood.

I am sure that a level with magnets, laser, ultrasonic rangefinder,
GPS and digital readout is more accurate than a wife looking over your
shoulder. And cheaper. But it will require those strange little child
choker batteries that go dead between projects

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Pobody's Nerfect!

"Bill" wrote in message
...

It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more
than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other
day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So, tonight I went
searching online for a level. I assume that levels with magnets stick to
the studs in walls (is that correct?). Any other uses for a "magnetic
level"? I'm focusing now on the 24" size. Stanley makes several, basic
version from about $16 up to a FatMax Extreme version which is supposed to
be 5x as strong and accurate to .0005"/inch. for about $35. I would
anticipate also using the level to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a
homemade workbench on a concrete floor with several cracks (hench not
level). I know that the workbench and vise should be level! I expect
that a Starrett combination square that I expect to have by then will be
helpful too in this regard--at least I should be able to see to it that
the top of the bench and the top of the vise are coplanar. So based on
the installations I have suggested above, what else do you think I need to
know about selecting a level? Reliability is important, of course. I read
somewhere that those with "caps" on the ends (which may include the ones I
mentioned) have the potential to be less reliable.

You will know to check that the level reads correctly by turning it around.
A suprising number of levels are slightly wrong. No quantity of lasers,
tripods, magnets or carry cases are any use at all unless the bubble is
precisely set. You may find an issue with the sensitivity of the level, eg
how far out of level it has to be to read out of level. You may not even
want the level to be very sensitive, but that is down to your work and your
experience to judge.

I used to use a level but now I work in old buildings I don't touch one from
one week to the next.

Tim W

Bill wrote:
It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring
more than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just
the other day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So,
tonight I went searching online for a level. I assume that levels
with magnets stick to the studs in walls (is that correct?). Any
other uses for a "magnetic level"? I'm focusing now on the 24" size.
Stanley makes several, basic version from about $16 up to a FatMax
Extreme version which is supposed to be 5x as strong and accurate to
.0005"/inch. for about $35. I would anticipate also using the level
to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a homemade workbench on a
concrete floor with several cracks (hench not level). I know that
the workbench and vise should be level! I expect that a Starrett
combination square that I expect to have by then will be helpful too
in this regard--at least I should be able to see to it that the top
of the bench and the top of the vise are coplanar. So based on the
installations I have suggested above, what else do you think I need
to know about selecting a level? Reliability is important, of course.
I read somewhere that those with "caps" on the ends (which may
include the ones I mentioned) have the potential to be less reliable.

A level is a dirt-simple device. Even the ancient Egyptians used them.

Unless you have need for some exotic attachement - perhaps you're a
surveyor - a fully functional level shouldn't cost more than about three
bucks.

Here's a bag of marbles for 20¢ each.
http://www.landofmarbles.com/sup346.html

On Dec 14, 8:05*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Bill wrote:
It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring
more than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. *I did a project just
the other day without one, which I ended up doing twice. * So,
tonight I went searching online for a level. *I assume that levels
with magnets stick to the studs in walls (is that correct?). *Any
other uses for a "magnetic level"? *I'm focusing now on the 24" size.
Stanley makes several, basic version from about $16 up to a FatMax
Extreme version which is supposed to be 5x as strong and accurate to
.0005"/inch. for about $35. *I would anticipate also using the level
to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a homemade workbench on a
concrete floor with several cracks (hench not level). *I know that
the workbench and vise should be level! *I expect that a Starrett
combination square that I expect to have by then will be helpful too
in this regard--at least I should be able to see to it that the top
of the bench and the top of the vise are coplanar. *So based on the
installations I have suggested above, what else do you think I need
to know about selecting a level? Reliability is important, of course.
I read somewhere that those with "caps" on the ends (which may
include the ones I mentioned) have the potential to be less reliable.

A level is a dirt-simple device. Even the ancient Egyptians used them.

Unless you have need for some exotic attachement - perhaps you're a
surveyor - a fully functional level shouldn't cost more than about three
bucks.

Here's a bag of marbles for 20¢ each.http://www.landofmarbles.com/sup346.html

You're going to replace those you've lost? G

Bill wrote:
It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring
more than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just
the other day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So,
tonight I went searching online for a level. I assume that levels
with magnets stick to the studs in walls (is that correct?).

Uhhh...no. Unless they are steel studs. Wood isn't magnetic.
___________


I know that the workbench and vise should be level!

What for? The only possible reason I can think of is if you intend to buy
HeyBub's bag of marbles, pour them out on the table and want them to stay
there (they'll stay in the vise, level or not, if you close the jaws on
them).

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Bill" wrote in message
...

It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more
than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other
day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So, tonight I went
searching online for a level.

With pictures I have found that typically what a level indicates may not be
what your eyes perceive as level. Basically other objects near the picture
or a curved archway may in fact make a level picture look unlevel. I always
depend on my eyes to make a picture look level.


I assume that levels with magnets stick to the studs in
walls (is that correct?).

Probably not correct, they "might" stick to steel studs that are in some
more modern homes but mostly to stick to iron work. The magnets may in fact
distort the level if most of the area you are working is non-ferrous and you
have an odd object that the level is attracted to. I doubt that magnets on
a level will pull through sheet rock.

That said, there are "Gecko" spelling? levels by B&D IIRC. They have a
super surface that will almost stick to a vertical wall. Not totally unlike
the material used on the guide rails on the new style circular saws that
require no clamps to stay in place.


Any other uses for a "magnetic level"? I'm
focusing now on the 24" size.

Are you working with steel pipe or steel beams?



Stanley makes several, basic version from
about $16 up to a FatMax Extreme version which is supposed to be 5x as
strong and accurate to .0005"/inch. for about $35.


Do you think you can see the tilt in a picture that is only .1 degrees out
of level?


I would anticipate also
using the level to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a homemade workbench
on a concrete floor with several cracks (hench not level). I know that
the workbench and vise should be level!

Nothing in my shop, 7' long TS, drill press, planer, router table work
bench, drum sander, lathe, band saw, etc is level nor do any of them need to
be level. Why would you need for them to be level?


I expect that a Starrett combination
square that I expect to have by then will be helpful too in this
regard--at least I should be able to see to it that the top of the bench
and the top of the vise are coplanar. So based on the installations I
have suggested above, what else do you think I need to know about
selecting a level?

The longer the level, the more accurate the results. The shorter levels are
good for ball park settings but for larger objects like cabinets or doors yo
want longer. Irregular surfaces on what you are trying to make level or
plumb have less adverse results when using a longer level.


Reliability is important, of course. I read somewhere that those with
"caps" on the ends (which may include the ones I mentioned) have the
potential to be less reliable.

Reliability is important, if the level is calibrated correctly to begin with
and you don't drop it very much there is not much that can go wrong with a
liquid in a tube.

dadiOH wrote:
Bill wrote:
It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring
more than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just
the other day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So,
tonight I went searching online for a level. I assume that levels
with magnets stick to the studs in walls (is that correct?).

Uhhh...no. Unless they are steel studs. Wood isn't magnetic.
___________


I know that the workbench and vise should be level!

What for? The only possible reason I can think of is if you intend
to buy HeyBub's bag of marbles, pour them out on the table and want
them to stay there (they'll stay in the vise, level or not, if you
close the jaws on them).

Stuff in the vise will stay put. A 1/4" chisel laid on the benchtop not so
much. And when it finishes rolling off it's even money whether it's going
to come down point first on one's foot or the concrete floor.

It's convenient that the bench be level enough that round tools don't roll
off of it.

Bill wrote:


It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more
than
1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other day
without one, which I ended up doing twice.
.... snip

While a level is sometimes important for such projects, there are other
times you don't want what you are mounting level, you want it parallel to
the ceiling (for a flat ceiling). A good example is drapery rods --
installing them level when the ceiling is not will make them look funny --
you want them an equal distance from the ceiling. Same is true of long
pictures or other frames that can be referenced by eye to the ceiling.
(DAMHIKT).

--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:56:31 -0500, "Bill"
wrote:


It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more than
1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other day
without one, which I ended up doing twice. So, tonight I went searching
online for a level. I assume that levels with magnets stick to the studs in
walls (is that correct?). Any other uses for a "magnetic level"? I'm
focusing now on the 24" size. Stanley makes several, basic version from
about $16 up to a FatMax Extreme version which is supposed to be 5x as
strong and accurate to .0005"/inch. for about $35. I would anticipate also
using the level to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a homemade workbench
on a concrete floor with several cracks (hench not level). I know that the
workbench and vise should be level! I expect that a Starrett combination
square that I expect to have by then will be helpful too in this regard--at
least I should be able to see to it that the top of the bench and the top of
the vise are coplanar. So based on the installations I have suggested
above, what else do you think I need to know about selecting a level?
Reliability is important, of course. I read somewhere that those with
"caps" on the ends (which may include the ones I mentioned) have the
potential to be less reliable.

Thank you,
Bill

I keep waiting for the sound of the reel letting out line.

Mike M

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:


It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more
than
1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other day
without one, which I ended up doing twice.
... snip

While a level is sometimes important for such projects, there are other
times you don't want what you are mounting level, you want it parallel to
the ceiling (for a flat ceiling). A good example is drapery rods --
installing them level when the ceiling is not will make them look funny --
you want them an equal distance from the ceiling.

Thank you for mentioning this Rob. I've got a set of drapery rods and
curtains I need to install.
Surprisingly, it has been an intimidating project I have put off (lots of
strings, hooks, pleats, etc).
I started it one day and, based on unexcusably-poor directions, put it away
until I felt more enthusiastic.

Bill

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:35:13 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Bill wrote:
It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring
more than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just
the other day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So,
tonight I went searching online for a level. I assume that levels
with magnets stick to the studs in walls (is that correct?).

Uhhh...no. Unless they are steel studs. Wood isn't magnetic.
___________


I know that the workbench and vise should be level!

What for? The only possible reason I can think of is if you intend to buy
HeyBub's bag of marbles, pour them out on the table and want them to stay
there (they'll stay in the vise, level or not, if you close the jaws on
them).
Having a level bench is a very good idea if you are fabricating on it
- you KNOW the bench is level, so if the assembly is level you also
know it is parrallel, and using a square with it, you also know if it
is square.

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:


It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more
than
1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other day
without one, which I ended up doing twice.
... snip

While a level is sometimes important for such projects, there are other
times you don't want what you are mounting level, you want it parallel to
the ceiling (for a flat ceiling).

I was thinking about using my jointer plane (and others) on work in a vise
(or on the workbench). I thought I read that it was important that the work
be level,
and this makes sense to me for several reasons. One may be so that one may
use ones internal sense of "down" (i.e. gravity) to guide the cut. I speak
without
much experience; comments always welcome.

Bill

"Mike M" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:56:31 -0500, "Bill"
wrote:


It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more
than
1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other day
without one, which I ended up doing twice. So, tonight I went searching
online for a level. I assume that levels with magnets stick to the studs
in
walls (is that correct?). Any other uses for a "magnetic level"? I'm
focusing now on the 24" size. Stanley makes several, basic version from
about $16 up to a FatMax Extreme version which is supposed to be 5x as
strong and accurate to .0005"/inch. for about $35. I would anticipate
also
using the level to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a homemade workbench
on a concrete floor with several cracks (hench not level). I know that
the
workbench and vise should be level! I expect that a Starrett combination
square that I expect to have by then will be helpful too in this
regard--at
least I should be able to see to it that the top of the bench and the top
of
the vise are coplanar. So based on the installations I have suggested
above, what else do you think I need to know about selecting a level?
Reliability is important, of course. I read somewhere that those with
"caps" on the ends (which may include the ones I mentioned) have the
potential to be less reliable.

Thank you,
Bill

I keep waiting for the sound of the reel letting out line.

Mike M


Yes, yes, yes...your comment is well-taken. But appropriate use of a level
may make or break your project.

I was watching a YouTube video on woodworking where someone had built
a very large big "wall (storage) unit" and went out of the way to shim it
this way and
that to make it level--and that seemed counter-intuitive to me, I was
thinking
it should "fit the room". Frankly, that left me in a confused state.

It seems if you were installing anything that has to do with water (bath,
kitchen, a boat)
then you would desire certain surfaces to be level. (To me), it seems that
anything
else should follow the wall or ceiling lines or be balanced in between them.

Bill

wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:35:13 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Bill wrote:
It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring
more than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just
the other day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So,
tonight I went searching online for a level. I assume that levels
with magnets stick to the studs in walls (is that correct?).

Uhhh...no. Unless they are steel studs. Wood isn't magnetic.
___________


I know that the workbench and vise should be level!

What for? The only possible reason I can think of is if you intend
to buy HeyBub's bag of marbles, pour them out on the table and want
them to stay there (they'll stay in the vise, level or not, if you
close the jaws on them).

Having a level bench is a very good idea if you are fabricating on it
- you KNOW the bench is level, so if the assembly is level you also
know it is parrallel, and using a square with it, you also know if it
is square.

Flat I can see, but level?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

J. Clarke wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
Bill wrote:
It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring
more than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just
the other day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So,
tonight I went searching online for a level. I assume that levels
with magnets stick to the studs in walls (is that correct?).

Uhhh...no. Unless they are steel studs. Wood isn't magnetic.
___________


I know that the workbench and vise should be level!

What for? The only possible reason I can think of is if you intend
to buy HeyBub's bag of marbles, pour them out on the table and want
them to stay there (they'll stay in the vise, level or not, if you
close the jaws on them).

Stuff in the vise will stay put. A 1/4" chisel laid on the benchtop
not so much. And when it finishes rolling off it's even money
whether it's going to come down point first on one's foot or the
concrete floor.

It's convenient that the bench be level enough that round tools don't
roll off of it.

I don't have round tools, I sand a flat on them.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:
It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring
more than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just
the other day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So,
tonight I went searching online for a level. I assume that levels
with magnets stick to the studs in walls (is that correct?). Any
other uses for a "magnetic level"? I'm focusing now on the 24" size.
Stanley makes several, basic version from about $16 up to a FatMax
Extreme version which is supposed to be 5x as strong and accurate to
.0005"/inch. for about $35. I would anticipate also using the level
to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a homemade workbench on a
concrete floor with several cracks (hench not level). I know that
the workbench and vise should be level! I expect that a Starrett
combination square that I expect to have by then will be helpful too
in this regard--at least I should be able to see to it that the top
of the bench and the top of the vise are coplanar. So based on the
installations I have suggested above, what else do you think I need
to know about selecting a level? Reliability is important, of course.
I read somewhere that those with "caps" on the ends (which may
include the ones I mentioned) have the potential to be less reliable.

A level is a dirt-simple device. Even the ancient Egyptians used them.

Unless you have need for some exotic attachement - perhaps you're a
surveyor - a fully functional level shouldn't cost more than about three
bucks.

I think one can almost fill a glass pill bottle with water, attach it on its
side to a board,
and having a working level and 3 bucks. (I belive I first saw this in the
book
"Hand Tools: There Ways and Workings", by Aldren Watson). If one doesnt have
a flat board, he or she may have to spend the 3 bucks--or possibly do prison
time.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
dadiOH wrote:
Bill wrote:
It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring
more than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just
the other day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So,
tonight I went searching online for a level. I assume that levels
with magnets stick to the studs in walls (is that correct?).

Uhhh...no. Unless they are steel studs. Wood isn't magnetic.
___________


I know that the workbench and vise should be level!

What for?

The main reason I was thinking of was to reinforce accurate planing.
Not sure to the extent this is valid.

Bill




Stuff in the vise will stay put. A 1/4" chisel laid on the benchtop not
so
much. And when it finishes rolling off it's even money whether it's going
to come down point first on one's foot or the concrete floor.

It's convenient that the bench be level enough that round tools don't roll
off of it.

"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:
It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more
than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other
day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So, tonight I went
searching online for a level. I assume that levels with magnets stick to
the studs in walls (is that correct?). Any other uses for a "magnetic
level"? I'm focusing now on the 24" size. Stanley makes several, basic
version from about $16 up to a FatMax Extreme version which is supposed
to be 5x as strong and accurate to .0005"/inch. for about $35. I would
anticipate also using the level to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a
homemade workbench on a concrete floor with several cracks (hench not
level). I know that the workbench and vise should be level! I expect
that a Starrett combination square that I expect to have by then will be
helpful too in this regard--at least I should be able to see to it that
the top of the bench and the top of the vise are coplanar. So based on
the installations I have suggested above, what else do you think I need
to know about selecting a level? Reliability is important, of course. I
read somewhere that those with "caps" on the ends (which may include the
ones I mentioned) have the potential to be less reliable.

Thank you,
Bill
Can't decide if you're asking or telling.

Mostly, I'm learning (which is closer to "asking")! : )
I am definitely NOT "telling".

Bill



Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Pobody's Nerfect!

wrote in message
...

Having a level bench is a very good idea if you are fabricating on it
- you KNOW the bench is level, so if the assembly is level you also
know it is parrallel, and using a square with it, you also know if it
is square.

Very nice. Thank you for sharing this.

Bill

Robatoy wrote:

A level is a dirt-simple device. Even the ancient Egyptians used
them.

Unless you have need for some exotic attachement - perhaps you're a
surveyor - a fully functional level shouldn't cost more than about
three bucks.

Here's a bag of marbles for 20¢
each.http://www.landofmarbles.com/sup346.html

You're going to replace those you've lost? G

I lose 'em when things are not on the level.

I tried using half of a pair of dice.

That didn't work either.

Bill wrote:

It seems if you were installing anything that has to do with water
(bath, kitchen, a boat)
then you would desire certain surfaces to be level. (To me), it
seems that anything
else should follow the wall or ceiling lines or be balanced in
between them.

Not always. If a bathtub or shower pan or drainboard (do they call them that
any more?) should or could have a slope to facilitate run-off.

HeyBub wrote:
Bill wrote:

It seems if you were installing anything that has to do with water
(bath, kitchen, a boat)
then you would desire certain surfaces to be level. (To me), it
seems that anything
else should follow the wall or ceiling lines or be balanced in
between them.

Not always. If a bathtub or shower pan or drainboard (do they call
them that any more?) should or could have a slope to facilitate
run-off.

My tub had a slope the wrong way when I bought the house. Rotted out quite
a lot before I finally figured out what the problem was and fixed it.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Bill wrote:

It seems if you were installing anything that has to do with water
(bath, kitchen, a boat)
then you would desire certain surfaces to be level. (To me), it
seems that anything
else should follow the wall or ceiling lines or be balanced in
between them.

Not always. If a bathtub or shower pan or drainboard (do they call them
that any more?) should or could have a slope to facilitate run-off.

Good point. An unlevel toilet would be bothersome though... the reasons why
could probably make David Letterman's top 10 list... : )

not even going to sign my name

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:37:11 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Bill wrote:

It seems if you were installing anything that has to do with water
(bath, kitchen, a boat)
then you would desire certain surfaces to be level. (To me), it
seems that anything
else should follow the wall or ceiling lines or be balanced in
between them.

Not always. If a bathtub or shower pan or drainboard (do they call them that
any more?) should or could have a slope to facilitate run-off.

Don't all bathtubs and shower pans have the slope built into the
design such that when the fixture is installed correctly (level) they
drain properly?

wrote in message
...
snip


Having a level bench is a very good idea if you are fabricating on it
- you KNOW the bench is level, so if the assembly is level you also
know it is parrallel, and using a square with it, you also know if it
is square.


I think you are wanting flat, you can build level and square on a non level
surface, I have been doing it that way for 30 years.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:
Bill wrote:



My tub had a slope the wrong way when I bought the house. Rotted out
quite
a lot before I finally figured out what the problem was and fixed it.


Your tub rotted?

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:
Bill wrote:



My tub had a slope the wrong way when I bought the house. Rotted out
quite
a lot before I finally figured out what the problem was and fixed it.


Your tub rotted?

They just don't make them like they used to. LOL

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:51:30 -0500, "Bill"
wrote:


"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:


It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more
than
1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other day
without one, which I ended up doing twice.
... snip

While a level is sometimes important for such projects, there are other
times you don't want what you are mounting level, you want it parallel to
the ceiling (for a flat ceiling). A good example is drapery rods --
installing them level when the ceiling is not will make them look funny --
you want them an equal distance from the ceiling.

Thank you for mentioning this Rob. I've got a set of drapery rods and
curtains I need to install.
Surprisingly, it has been an intimidating project I have put off (lots of
strings, hooks, pleats, etc).
I started it one day and, based on unexcusably-poor directions, put it away
until I felt more enthusiastic.

Bill

For stuff close to the ceiling I just use a tape measure unless it
needs to work with gravity.

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:21:48 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:35:13 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Bill wrote:
It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring
more than 1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just
the other day without one, which I ended up doing twice. So,
tonight I went searching online for a level. I assume that levels
with magnets stick to the studs in walls (is that correct?).

Uhhh...no. Unless they are steel studs. Wood isn't magnetic.
___________


I know that the workbench and vise should be level!

What for? The only possible reason I can think of is if you intend
to buy HeyBub's bag of marbles, pour them out on the table and want
them to stay there (they'll stay in the vise, level or not, if you
close the jaws on them).

Having a level bench is a very good idea if you are fabricating on it
- you KNOW the bench is level, so if the assembly is level you also
know it is parrallel, and using a square with it, you also know if it
is square.

Flat I can see, but level?
If it is not level, you can't check parallel with a level. To be
accurate you still nead to measure with a vernier, but for many
applications a level base, and a level to check the assembly, is
quick, easy, and effective.

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:
Bill wrote:



My tub had a slope the wrong way when I bought the house. Rotted out
quite
a lot before I finally figured out what the problem was and fixed it.


Your tub rotted?

Nope. The wall, the floor, the joists, . . .

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:56:31 -0500, "Bill" wrote:

I use a level once in a while, but usually do it with a laser line projector..
I think I paid $10 for it at Harbor Freight..
Just set it on a surface with it projecting a line, set the screws until it's
level and line the shelf or whatever up with it..
Very handy as a "3rd hand"..


It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more than
1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other day
without one, which I ended up doing twice. So, tonight I went searching
online for a level. I assume that levels with magnets stick to the studs in
walls (is that correct?). Any other uses for a "magnetic level"? I'm
focusing now on the 24" size. Stanley makes several, basic version from
about $16 up to a FatMax Extreme version which is supposed to be 5x as
strong and accurate to .0005"/inch. for about $35. I would anticipate also
using the level to install machinery (TS, BS, DP) and a homemade workbench
on a concrete floor with several cracks (hench not level). I know that the
workbench and vise should be level! I expect that a Starrett combination
square that I expect to have by then will be helpful too in this regard--at
least I should be able to see to it that the top of the bench and the top of
the vise are coplanar. So based on the installations I have suggested
above, what else do you think I need to know about selecting a level?
Reliability is important, of course. I read somewhere that those with
"caps" on the ends (which may include the ones I mentioned) have the
potential to be less reliable.

Thank you,
Bill



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:
Bill wrote:



My tub had a slope the wrong way when I bought the house. Rotted out
quite
a lot before I finally figured out what the problem was and fixed it.


Your tub rotted?

Nope. The wall, the floor, the joists, . . .

So was that water that leaked between the tub and wall?

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:
Bill wrote:



My tub had a slope the wrong way when I bought the house. Rotted
out quite
a lot before I finally figured out what the problem was and fixed
it.


Your tub rotted?

Nope. The wall, the floor, the joists, . . .

So was that water that leaked between the tub and wall?

Actually went on the floor and under the tub. Tubs have a lip that is
intended to catch water on three sides--you want it sloped so that water
runs toward the lip on the back of the tub so most of it stays in the tub.
Mine was sloped the other way A bad seal around the valves let water run
behind the wall, down into the gap between that lip and the wall, it then
ran down the open side of the tub, behind the wall, and out onto the floor
under the vinyl. First sign that there was a problem was when I put my foot
through the floor. When I got into it I found that the floor was rotted out
from above, and water had run down alongside the nails onto the tops of the
joists and rotted them between the joist and subfloor. Huge mess. Didn't
help that the previous owner had had the same thing happen, done a
half-assed job of fixing it and not bothered to check the levelling of the
tub.

On Dec 15, 9:23*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:
Bill wrote:

My tub had a slope the wrong way when I bought the house. *Rotted
out quite
a lot before I finally figured out what the problem was and fixed
it.

Your tub rotted?

Nope. *The wall, the floor, the joists, . . .

So was that water that leaked between the tub and wall?

Actually went on the floor and under the tub. *Tubs have a lip that is
intended to catch water on three sides--you want it sloped so that water
runs toward the lip on the back of the tub so most of it stays in the tub..
Mine was sloped the other way * A bad seal around the valves let water run
behind the wall, down into the gap between that lip and the wall, it then
ran down the open side of the tub, behind the wall, and out onto the floor
under the vinyl. *First sign that there was a problem was when I put my foot
through the floor. *When I got into it I found that the floor was rotted out
from above, and water had run down alongside the nails onto the tops of the
joists and rotted them between the joist and subfloor. *Huge mess. *Didn't
help that the previous owner had *had the same thing happen, done a
half-assed job of fixing it and not bothered to check the levelling of the
tub.

I had the subfloor in a half-bath rot out without me knowing it. I
discovered the problem when I was pulling the fixtures out preparing
to tile the floor. I first noticed the strange aluminum flashing and
caulking under the baseboard. Then when I removed the vanity I
discovered the subflooring under it had turned to dust. Evidently the
previous owners knew about the leak but perhaps thought it was their
kid taking a bath on the floor and tried to dam up the walls. The
problem was a pin hole in the hot water supply pipe in the wall. I
found it by feel; a nail had worked its way from the inside out.
Amazingly, it never leaked enough to get to the kitchen ceiling,
below.

A level is a dirt-simple device. Even the ancient Egyptians used them.

Unless you have need for some exotic attachement - perhaps you're a
surveyor - a fully functional level shouldn't cost more than about three
bucks.

Surveyors did fine with bubbles in a glass tube or dome until about
25-30 years ago.

I got a laser from my daughter's family for Christmas a few years
ago. Neat toy and it does have some practical use around the house
use. But for most things, the setup time is a lot longer than walking
to the garage and grabbing one of my bubble devices.

Probably just me. I'm kind lazy that way.

RonB

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:13:15 -0500, the infamous
scrawled the following:

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:51:30 -0500, "Bill"
wrote:


"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:


It appears that installing just about anything on a wall requiring more
than
1 screw or nail calls for a level. I did a project just the other day
without one, which I ended up doing twice.
... snip

While a level is sometimes important for such projects, there are other
times you don't want what you are mounting level, you want it parallel to
the ceiling (for a flat ceiling). A good example is drapery rods --
installing them level when the ceiling is not will make them look funny --
you want them an equal distance from the ceiling.

Thank you for mentioning this Rob. I've got a set of drapery rods and
curtains I need to install.
Surprisingly, it has been an intimidating project I have put off (lots of
strings, hooks, pleats, etc).
I started it one day and, based on unexcusably-poor directions, put it away
until I felt more enthusiastic.

Bill

For stuff close to the ceiling I just use a tape measure unless it
needs to work with gravity.

Ditto here, and I always verify that the window was installed level
before putting anything up. Working with old, homebuilt houses, I've
experienced a few "Mrs. Client, would you prefer that I hang the
drapes parallel to the window opening level -or- the ceiling level?"
and another one, "parallel with the closet frame or the closet door?"
when there was a 1" gap and the door was level and square, and the
frame was mudded and painted, no trim to hide it behind. g That last
one was a 1970s tract home in LoCal.

--
Every day above ground is a Good Day(tm).
-----------

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

So was that water that leaked between the tub and wall?

Actually went on the floor and under the tub. Tubs have a lip that is
intended to catch water on three sides--you want it sloped so that water
runs toward the lip on the back of the tub so most of it stays in the tub.

Yeah and the fact that water is normally clear makes it hard to notice.

Mine was sloped the other way A bad seal around the valves let water run
behind the wall, down into the gap between that lip and the wall, it then
ran down the open side of the tub, behind the wall, and out onto the floor
under the vinyl. First sign that there was a problem was when I put my
foot
through the floor. When I got into it I found that the floor was rotted
out
from above, and water had run down alongside the nails onto the tops of
the
joists and rotted them between the joist and subfloor. Huge mess. Didn't
help that the previous owner had had the same thing happen, done a
half-assed job of fixing it and not bothered to check the levelling of the
tub.

Sounds like a real mess you had.