I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray table
out of mahogany. Nice looking wood that sells for about $6.50 and up. When
it was almost done, I thought it looked pretty good.

Then he said mahogany can be too red so he put a dark walnut stain on
it!!!!. I'm glad this was before breakfast or I would have puked. He'd
have don better using mdf and a couple of coats of brown latex.

--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

Always remember Edwin the guy is really a carpenter Thats why he shows his
ignorance on such matters for all to see on TV. I bet he never even
mentioned a "brown " mahogany stain

Stuff like Honduras mahogany is wasted on the likes of Norm.....Even
stranger when I come to think of it wasn't someone on this group talking
about making a deckout of it six months or so ago ......those kind of
people should be locked up .....mjh




"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...
I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray
table
out of mahogany. Nice looking wood that sells for about $6.50 and up.
When
it was almost done, I thought it looked pretty good.

Then he said mahogany can be too red so he put a dark walnut stain on
it!!!!. I'm glad this was before breakfast or I would have puked. He'd
have don better using mdf and a couple of coats of brown latex.

--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

Actually mahogany is used quite often for high end decks because it is rot
and decay resistant. It is also used in the marine trades for the same
reason.

--
Bill Rittner
R & B ENTERPRISES
Manchester, CT



"Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody
gets out alive" (Unknown)

Remove "no" to reply
"Mike Hide" wrote in message
newsM9_b.382512$na.572984@attbi_s04...

Always remember Edwin the guy is really a carpenter Thats why he shows his
ignorance on such matters for all to see on TV. I bet he never even
mentioned a "brown " mahogany stain

Stuff like Honduras mahogany is wasted on the likes of Norm.....Even
stranger when I come to think of it wasn't someone on this group talking
about making a deckout of it six months or so ago ......those kind of
people should be locked up .....mjh




"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...
I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray
table
out of mahogany. Nice looking wood that sells for about $6.50 and up.
When
it was almost done, I thought it looked pretty good.

Then he said mahogany can be too red so he put a dark walnut stain on
it!!!!. I'm glad this was before breakfast or I would have puked. He'd
have don better using mdf and a couple of coats of brown latex.

--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

In article Dlb_b.12810$iB.12170@lakeread06,
"Bill Rittner" wrote:

Actually mahogany is used quite often for high end decks because it is rot
and decay resistant. It is also used in the marine trades for the same
reason.

....and "red" mahogany turns brown in sunlight anyway. Isn't
Chippendale's furniture mostly mahogany oiled brown?
--
Doors - Locks - Weatherstripping
POB 250121 Atlanta GA 30325
404/626-2840

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:39 GMT, "Mike Hide"
wrote:

[ill advised response to troll snipped]

Please don't feed the trolls.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Always remember Edwin the guy is really a carpenter Thats why he shows his
ignorance on such matters for all to see on TV. I bet he never even
mentioned a "brown " mahogany stain

Stuff like Honduras mahogany is wasted on the likes of Norm.....Even
stranger when I come to think of it wasn't someone on this group talking
about making a deckout of it six months or so ago ......those kind of
people should be locked up .....mjh



--




"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...
I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray
table
out of mahogany. Nice looking wood that sells for about $6.50 and up.
When
it was almost done, I thought it looked pretty good.

Then he said mahogany can be too red so he put a dark walnut stain on
it!!!!. I'm glad this was before breakfast or I would have puked. He'd
have don better using mdf and a couple of coats of brown latex.

--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

Can't be a man, 'cause he doesn't smoke the same cigarette I do.

"Mike Hide" wrote in message
news:T7g_b.42446$4o.58483@attbi_s52...
Always remember Edwin the guy is really a carpenter Thats why he shows his
ignorance on such matters for all to see on TV. I bet he never even
mentioned a "brown " mahogany stain

Stuff like Honduras mahogany is wasted on the likes of Norm.....Even
stranger when I come to think of it wasn't someone on this group talking
about making a deckout of it six months or so ago ......those kind of
people should be locked up .....mjh



--




"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...
I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray
table
out of mahogany. Nice looking wood that sells for about $6.50 and up.
When
it was almost done, I thought it looked pretty good.

Then he said mahogany can be too red so he put a dark walnut stain on
it!!!!. I'm glad this was before breakfast or I would have puked. He'd
have don better using mdf and a couple of coats of brown latex.

--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

"Mike Hide" writes:

Always remember Edwin the guy is really a carpenter Thats why he shows his
ignorance on such matters for all to see on TV. I bet he never even
mentioned a "brown " mahogany stain

You know, I don't like to stain wood either. However, since Norm is making
the item for himself, why shouldn't he be allowed to finish it
however he likes?

scott

I don't agree with the walnut stain, but .... I was at
a Woodcraft store in Charleston,S.C. last weekend and
one piece of wood that caught my eye was a finished piece
of mahogany.

The finishing schedule was written on the back.

I was blown away by the results and kept expecting to see
the words "sprayed finish", which didn't ever appear.

The basics was sanding,staining,sealing,top coat,sealing,
more top coat,sealing,rub out.....(13-14 steps as I recall)

It was beautiful and had at least two "stains" applied to
it. A cover stain of water based "dye" from Jeff Jewitt
and then a "colored filler" by Behlen.

I was blown away by the finished results.....

When I asked why he stained it, he said most people(pros)
will end up staining mahogany to get a "slightly darker"
look than the native "pink" that mahogany often shows.

After seeing this "all hand applied" finish, I have to
vote in favor of "helping" the mahogany.....











Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray table
out of mahogany. Nice looking wood that sells for about $6.50 and up. When
it was almost done, I thought it looked pretty good.

Then he said mahogany can be too red so he put a dark walnut stain on
it!!!!. I'm glad this was before breakfast or I would have puked. He'd
have don better using mdf and a couple of coats of brown latex.

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message

You know, I don't like to stain wood either. However, since Norm is
making
the item for himself, why shouldn't he be allowed to finish it
however he likes?

scott

No one said he can't and no one cares what he does in the privacy of his
shop with consenting adults.

HOWEVER, this is more than just a guy making a tray for himself. He is a
celebrity that has much influence to his audience. My mother bought Lipton
tea because Arthur Godfrey advertised Lipton tea. Kids buy sneakers because
the associate the brand with their favorite star. Sadly, people will be
putting walnut stain on mahogany because Norm did. Celebrities do have some
responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.
Ed

"Edwin Pawlowski" writes:

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message

You know, I don't like to stain wood either. However, since Norm is
making
the item for himself, why shouldn't he be allowed to finish it
however he likes?

scott

No one said he can't and no one cares what he does in the privacy of his
shop with consenting adults.

HOWEVER, this is more than just a guy making a tray for himself. He is a
celebrity that has much influence to his audience. My mother bought Lipton
tea because Arthur Godfrey advertised Lipton tea. Kids buy sneakers because
the associate the brand with their favorite star. Sadly, people will be
putting walnut stain on mahogany because Norm did. Celebrities do have some
responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.
Ed

So because some people are gullible sheep, Norm shouldn't do what he
thinks is correct, right and proper for him? The argument doesn't
hold water.

There is nothing fundamentally incorrect about using stain on mahogony,
purists notwithstanding.

scott

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
. com...
"Edwin Pawlowski" writes:

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message

You know, I don't like to stain wood either. However, since Norm is
making
the item for himself, why shouldn't he be allowed to finish it
however he likes?

scott

No one said he can't and no one cares what he does in the privacy of his
shop with consenting adults.

HOWEVER, this is more than just a guy making a tray for himself. He is a
celebrity that has much influence to his audience. My mother bought
Lipton
tea because Arthur Godfrey advertised Lipton tea. Kids buy sneakers
because
the associate the brand with their favorite star. Sadly, people will be
putting walnut stain on mahogany because Norm did. Celebrities do have
some
responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.
Ed

So because some people are gullible sheep, Norm shouldn't do what he
thinks is correct, right and proper for him? The argument doesn't
hold water.

There is nothing fundamentally incorrect about using stain on mahogony,
purists notwithstanding.

scott

Scott Lurndal wrote:

So because some people are gullible sheep, Norm shouldn't do what he
thinks is correct, right and proper for him? The argument doesn't
hold water.

There is nothing fundamentally incorrect about using stain on
mahogony, purists notwithstanding.

scott

As I said, I don't care what HE does, but he is a teacher, a leader, a
source of supposedly good information. He should be teaching how it could
be finished, not just doing what he wants with no explanation. .

Yes, gullible sheep will do exactly as he does. How many times have you
seen a request for plans here asking "I want to make an 8" burfl, but the
only plans I could find are for 6" burfls" because the twit has no concept
of adding two inches to a couple of dimensions? Same with finishing

If he shows a piece of the natural mahogany and one with stain, I may have
thought nothing of it, but he leads people to belived that wood must be
stained. I'm sure you don't agree, but I think he should encourage free
thinking, not just doing it one way.
--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:24:45 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

I'm sure you don't agree, but I think he should encourage free
thinking, not just doing it one way.

I like Norm, but I also know that an awful lot of people watch his
show and think "I could do that if only I had all that stuff." We
'wreckers all know that tools are only part of the equation. I know
that if I had Tom Plamann's shop, I still couldn't build one of his
stairways anytime soon. In time, maybe, but I certainly know there's
a lot of talent and hard work behind the finished products. I can go
on and on about people looking at a creation of mine and commenting on
the tools. I think Norm often makes things look too easy.

However, Norm does seem to have that bias towards a certain company's
finishing products. I don't know if it's lack of knowledge about
other stuff or pure sponsor pressure.

I'd at least like to see the guy use a GOOD quality stain like
Mohawk/Behlen's. Or maybe talk about oils vs. dyes vs. pigments vs.
combinations of all of the above, and show the difference. A mention
of stock selection, considering the part, would be excellent as well.
At least he's spent a minute or two on milk paint.

I don't see a problem with staining mahogany at all. I do have a
problem with staining mahogany with 'el cheapo products!

OTOH, David Marks seems to put Tung Oil on EVERYTHING!

Barry

B a r r y wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:24:45 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:
I like Norm, but I also know that an awful lot of people watch his
show and think "I could do that if only I had all that stuff." We
'wreckers all know that tools are only part of the equation. I know
that if I had Tom Plamann's shop, I still couldn't build one of his
stairways anytime soon. In time, maybe, but I certainly know there's
a lot of talent and hard work behind the finished products. I can go
on and on about people looking at a creation of mine and commenting on
the tools. I think Norm often makes things look too easy.

Barry

He does make it look easy. I've never seen him do a work around because he
did not have the right tool. We might use a router and table saw and drill
press and tweak with planes and chisels to get a ceratin cut, but Norm just
puts in on the Binford Wood-O-Matic and pushes the button.

While the show encourges woodworking, I imagine that some people get
frustrated because it takes them a half hour to set up a cut and Norm has
the whole project built in that time. And they think they must have the
Wood-O-Matic to do anything good.

--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 03:16:58 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

While the show encourges woodworking, I imagine that some people get
frustrated because it takes them a half hour to set up a cut and Norm has
the whole project built in that time. And they think they must have the
Wood-O-Matic to do anything good.

If they aren't smart enough to realize that the project isn't *really*
built in half an hour, they don't deserve a Wood-O-Matic.

Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called
television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever
enough to have noticed that.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:39 GMT, "Mike Hide"
scribbled:

snip of heretical Norm bashing

Mike, Mike, Mike. Won't you ever learn:

NORM RULES!! Norm bashing is not countenanced in this newsgroup under
any circumstances. Norm is perfect and he has the best workshop with
all the best tools. He is the greatest woodworker in the whole wide
world and in all of history. HE IS NOT TOM SILVA'S WATER BOY!!!

Norm does not make mistakes and does the finest woodworking that is
humanly possible. Norm always does everything in the best possible
way. He is better than Tage Frid, Frank Klausz, James Krenov, Sam
Maloof, Tom Plamann, Ian Kirby and all those other phoneys and rip-off
artists who claim they can hand-plane a bench-top to within 1/1000 of
an inch, all put together. If enough people built things the way Norm
does and bought the same tools he has, the world would be a much
better place. Nailers and bisquick joiners make the best joints for
attaching wood and cross grain construction is perfect if you use
enough brads and biscuits and glue. No need for expensive clamps if
you've got a brad nailer. Schlepping glue all over your project with
a wet rag saves on finishing. Minwax stain and poly is unquestionably
the best finish. Anybody who thinks different or who dares criticize
Norm is just jealous. If you hate him so much, why do you keep
watching his show?

As the Pope has infallibility in matters of faith, so has the Plaid
One in matters of sawdust. If you don't believe me, you will get
flamed and get tons of hate email for your blasphemy. You will be
tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Just ask Tom
Perigrin. Ignore that JOAT pagan. There is but one woodworking god.
Norm is Jewish and a carpenter and his mother was a virgin. 'Nuff
said!

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 03:16:58 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

While the show encourges woodworking, I imagine that some people get
frustrated because it takes them a half hour to set up a cut and Norm has
the whole project built in that time. And they think they must have the
Wood-O-Matic to do anything good.

If they aren't smart enough to realize that the project isn't *really*
built in half an hour, they don't deserve a Wood-O-Matic.

Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called
television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever
enough to have noticed that.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999


Norms shows are entertainment but many consider them to be instructional,
anyone but a rank amateur who sees the show as instructional knows these
projects are not done in 30 minutes.

As I said earlier Norm is in fact a glorified carpenter. At least in other
show TOH he uses experts in the various field of house renovation. So why
not someone who knows at least the rudiments of finishing in his other show
.. After all the finishing aspects are just as important as how the thing is
built ,if the finish is crap so is the end item.....mjh

I know I have sinned, I have sinned and sinned ,oh woe is me I have
sinned......mjh


"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:39 GMT, "Mike Hide"
scribbled:

snip of heretical Norm bashing

Mike, Mike, Mike. Won't you ever learn:

NORM RULES!! Norm bashing is not countenanced in this newsgroup under
any circumstances. Norm is perfect and he has the best workshop with
all the best tools. He is the greatest woodworker in the whole wide
world and in all of history. HE IS NOT TOM SILVA'S WATER BOY!!!

Norm does not make mistakes and does the finest woodworking that is
humanly possible. Norm always does everything in the best possible
way. He is better than Tage Frid, Frank Klausz, James Krenov, Sam
Maloof, Tom Plamann, Ian Kirby and all those other phoneys and rip-off
artists who claim they can hand-plane a bench-top to within 1/1000 of
an inch, all put together. If enough people built things the way Norm
does and bought the same tools he has, the world would be a much
better place. Nailers and bisquick joiners make the best joints for
attaching wood and cross grain construction is perfect if you use
enough brads and biscuits and glue. No need for expensive clamps if
you've got a brad nailer. Schlepping glue all over your project with
a wet rag saves on finishing. Minwax stain and poly is unquestionably
the best finish. Anybody who thinks different or who dares criticize
Norm is just jealous. If you hate him so much, why do you keep
watching his show?

As the Pope has infallibility in matters of faith, so has the Plaid
One in matters of sawdust. If you don't believe me, you will get
flamed and get tons of hate email for your blasphemy. You will be
tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Just ask Tom
Perigrin. Ignore that JOAT pagan. There is but one woodworking god.
Norm is Jewish and a carpenter and his mother was a virgin. 'Nuff
said!

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:47:06 GMT, "Mike Hide"
wrote:

Norms shows are entertainment but many consider them to be instructional,

Of course they're instructional. I defy anyone to not learn something
from them.

anyone but a rank amateur who sees the show as instructional knows these
projects are not done in 30 minutes.

I think you do a disservice to rank amateurs...and place too much
emphasis on what the show is or isn't, or what you think it should be.

As I said earlier Norm is in fact a glorified carpenter.

You say that as though it's a crime.

At least in other show TOH he uses experts in the various field of house
renovation.

Like the project where he got finishing tips from a professional
finish restorer? And the projects subsequent to that where he has
mentioned he's employed those tips in the currennt project?

So why not someone who knows at least the rudiments of
finishing in his other show .

Please. What "rudiments" of finishing does he not know? If you're just
a finishing snob, then there's no correct answer. So many finishing
snobs blindly prostrate themselve at the altar of David Marks and his
incessant tung oil use that they get completely lathered at their
perception of what the *right* finish shoudl be.

Honestly, you sound as bad as the guy who posted a while back that
Norm doesn't show the proper respect for the wood. What hogwash.

After all the finishing aspects are just as important as how the thing is
built ,if the finish is crap so is the end item.....mjh

Crap? Norm has done polyurethane, wax, modified French polish, tung
oil, and a couple of others that I can't recall. Are they all crap, or
is it just one or two you think are crap?

I suppose the same naysayers who rail on him about "doing a whole
project in 30 minutes" figure he's doing a crap finish because he
"does it alll in the last two minutes of the program."

Not one time have I heard any one of these same people say what finish
it is that he *ought* to be doing.


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Makes you wonder, doesn't it? And these folks are by and large _not_ of the
generation raised on TV.

Of course, hero worship and hero envy are old beyond history.

Roy makes up a lot off-screen too....

"LRod" wrote in message
...

Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called
television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever
enough to have noticed that.

Can't be, or he would do things Mike's way.

Besides, Norm has to be holding his pneumatic brad driver for his
pronouncements to be infallible....

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:39 GMT, "Mike Hide"


As the Pope has infallibility in matters of faith, so has the Plaid
One in matters of sawdust. If you don't believe me, you will get
flamed and get tons of hate email for your blasphemy. You will be
tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Just ask Tom
Perigrin. Ignore that JOAT pagan. There is but one woodworking god.
Norm is Jewish and a carpenter and his mother was a virgin. 'Nuff
said!

George responds:

Can't be, or he would do things Mike's way.

Besides, Norm has to be holding his pneumatic brad driver for his
pronouncements to be infallible....

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:39 GMT, "Mike Hide"


As the Pope has infallibility in matters of faith, so has the Plaid
One in matters of sawdust. If you don't believe me, you will get
flamed and get tons of hate email for your blasphemy. You will be
tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Just ask Tom
Perigrin. Ignore that JOAT pagan. There is but one woodworking god.
Norm is Jewish and a carpenter and his mother was a virgin. 'Nuff
said!


Everybody's mother WAS a virgin.

Is Norm Jewish or does someone think Abram sounds Jewish? Honest question. I've
never thought about it before. Probably never again.

Charlie Self
"Health food makes me sick." Calvin Trillin

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

At halftime??

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:49:52 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

Celebrities do have some responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.

In article LvC_b.47804$Xp.236779@attbi_s54,
Mike Hide wrote:
I know I have sinned, I have sinned and sinned ,oh woe is me I have
sinned......mjh


The high prietht hath heard your confethion.

He thayth "repaint and thin no more."




"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:39 GMT, "Mike Hide"
scribbled:

snip of heretical Norm bashing

Mike, Mike, Mike. Won't you ever learn:

NORM RULES!! Norm bashing is not countenanced in this newsgroup under
any circumstances. Norm is perfect and he has the best workshop with
all the best tools. He is the greatest woodworker in the whole wide
world and in all of history. HE IS NOT TOM SILVA'S WATER BOY!!!

Norm does not make mistakes and does the finest woodworking that is
humanly possible. Norm always does everything in the best possible
way. He is better than Tage Frid, Frank Klausz, James Krenov, Sam
Maloof, Tom Plamann, Ian Kirby and all those other phoneys and rip-off
artists who claim they can hand-plane a bench-top to within 1/1000 of
an inch, all put together. If enough people built things the way Norm
does and bought the same tools he has, the world would be a much
better place. Nailers and bisquick joiners make the best joints for
attaching wood and cross grain construction is perfect if you use
enough brads and biscuits and glue. No need for expensive clamps if
you've got a brad nailer. Schlepping glue all over your project with
a wet rag saves on finishing. Minwax stain and poly is unquestionably
the best finish. Anybody who thinks different or who dares criticize
Norm is just jealous. If you hate him so much, why do you keep
watching his show?

As the Pope has infallibility in matters of faith, so has the Plaid
One in matters of sawdust. If you don't believe me, you will get
flamed and get tons of hate email for your blasphemy. You will be
tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Just ask Tom
Perigrin. Ignore that JOAT pagan. There is but one woodworking god.
Norm is Jewish and a carpenter and his mother was a virgin. 'Nuff
said!

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:47:06 GMT, "Mike Hide"
wrote:

Norms shows are entertainment but many consider them to be instructional,

Of course they're instructional. I defy anyone to not learn something
from them.

Even if it is how not to do it !!!


anyone but a rank amateur who sees the show as instructional knows these
projects are not done in 30 minutes.

I think you do a disservice to rank amateurs...and place too much
emphasis on what the show is or isn't, or what you think it should be.


That was in fact a comment on someones earlier observation



As I said earlier Norm is in fact a glorified carpenter.

You say that as though it's a crime.


I have the utmost respect for carpenters, they make important contributions
to construction on a daily basis


At least in other show TOH he uses experts in the various field of house
renovation.
Like the project where he got finishing tips from a professional
finish restorer? And the projects subsequent to that where he has
mentioned he's employed those tips in the currennt project?


Ah so the idea of covering up a perfectly good piece of Mahogany with walnut
stain wasn't Norms idea


So why not someone who knows at least the rudiments of
finishing in his other show .

Please. What "rudiments" of finishing does he not know? If you're just
a finishing snob, then there's no correct answer. So many finishing
snobs blindly prostrate themselve at the altar of David Marks and his
incessant tung oil use that they get completely lathered at their
perception of what the *right* finish shoudl be.

Honestly, you sound as bad as the guy who posted a while back that
Norm doesn't show the proper respect for the wood. What hogwash.

After all the finishing aspects are just as important as how the thing
is
built ,if the finish is crap so is the end item.....mjh

Crap? Norm has done polyurethane, wax, modified French polish, tung
oil, and a couple of others that I can't recall. Are they all crap, or
is it just one or two you think are crap?


Poly is probably the most durable but I don't care for it personally ,it
looks like a sticky finish with no character, french polish is a great
finish but very suceptable to water let alone alcohol. Tung oil in one of
the constituents in varnish, on its own it will continue sink into the wood
and gather dust in the wood pores until the surface is almost black. Even
worse if at some later date you wish to refinish the item [perhaps to get
back to the items real color] it is extremely difficult to get a finish to
take due to the ingrained oil.

Yes i would say most are crap.


I suppose the same naysayers who rail on him about "doing a whole
project in 30 minutes" figure he's doing a crap finish because he
"does it alll in the last two minutes of the program."


As important as finishes are your hero should perhaps consider doing at
least a couple of programs on finishes alone, then perhaps he could
enlighten the audience on why he picked a particular finish and how it was
applied. Perhaps then your next comment would be answered.

In another post someone mentioned going to Charleston and seeing a piece of
Mahogany and admiring the quality of the finish . The thing that struck me
was he thought it was JUST a sprayed on finish . People should realize
there is a little more to it than just pulling the trigger on a spray gun,
similary with french polishing it is more than wopping on a bunch of shellac
mixed with alcohol and bit of oil on and calling it french polished ,people
used to be french polishers by trade ,much like carpenters are today with
the exception that you had to serve a five year appreticeship before you
qualified.


Not one time have I heard any one of these same people say what finish
it is that he *ought* to be doing.




LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

mjh

In article kZJ_b.389613$xy6.2202365@attbi_s02,
Mike Hide wrote:

"LRod" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:47:06 GMT, "Mike Hide"
wrote:

Norms shows are entertainment but many consider them to be instructional,

Of course they're instructional. I defy anyone to not learn something
from them.

Even if it is how not to do it !!!

Right on.

"Nothing is ever *totally*useless*,
it can always serve as a bad example."

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:20:48 GMT, "Mike Hide"
wrote:

[utterly useless "everything he does is wrong" patter snipped]

And for all of that, you still haven't told us what finish we all are
SUPPOSED to be using.

According to you.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:36:37 -0600, (p_j) wrote:

Can we see some of your non-crap finishing? What do you use? The other
guy who was dissing him used stain on pine. He probably used a wreck
approved top coat though.

You're wasting your time p, or should I call you Mr. i? I've seen his
type on the internet for years; all criticism, no examples of his own,
better, work.

What is a wreck approved top coat, anyway? I hear bitching about poly,
bitching about, shellac, bitching about French polish, bitching about
wax. That almost leaves tung oil and lacquer. Are those it?

No one ever mentions Watco; is that verboten, too? I'm sure someone
would bitch that all you do is slather it on, hit it with a few dozen
paper towels (when everyone knows you're supposed to use lint free
cloth), and then parade it around as if you'd done an actual finish.

Harrumph. Finishing snobs.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:50:30 -0500, "George"
wrote:

Can't be, or he would do things Mike's way.


Only when MIke is speaking Ex Cathedra, and, having seen his chair
work, I feel that he's entitled.

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...

Is Norm Jewish or does someone think Abram sounds Jewish? Honest question.
I've
never thought about it before. Probably never again.

Half a dozen rejoinders popped to mind.
All of them without malice intended; all likely to offend someone,
someplace. sigh


All hell - "vive l'difference" and "can't we all just get along?".

LRod wrote:

You're wasting your time p, or should I call you Mr. i? I've seen his
type on the internet for years; all criticism, no examples of his own,
better, work.

I take it that you don't subscribe to "alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking"
or "alt.binaries.pictures.furniture". If I had to choose a piece of
furniture made by either Norm or Mike it would be Mr. Hide's for sure.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

mttt asks:

Is Norm Jewish or does someone think Abram sounds Jewish? Honest question.
I've
never thought about it before. Probably never again.

Half a dozen rejoinders popped to mind.
All of them without malice intended; all likely to offend someone,
someplace. sigh

Well, I still don't know, which fits right up there with how much I care. My
remark was to the person who said he was Jewish, not meant as a snip at either
Abram or Judaism.

I wouldn't even care if he was Scottish or Irish.

All hell - "vive l'difference" and "can't we all just get along?".

Well, no. No reason we should. But the arguments shouldn't be based on
religion.

Charlie Self
"Health food makes me sick." Calvin Trillin

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Added a web page for your information, paneled room and desk both in laquer
....mjh http://members.tripod.com/mikehide2


"p_j" wrote in message
...
LRod wrote:

Can we see some of your non-crap finishing? What do you use? The other
guy who was dissing him used stain on pine. He probably used a wreck
approved top coat though.

You're wasting your time p, or should I call you Mr. i? I've seen his
type on the internet for years; all criticism, no examples of his own,
better, work.

Just call me 'pj.'

Personally, I think it is envy. At least when you ask them for actual
criticism, they usually shut up.

What is a wreck approved top coat, anyway? I hear bitching about poly,
bitching about, shellac, bitching about French polish, bitching about
wax. That almost leaves tung oil and lacquer. Are those it?

Hey, I hear bitchin' about tung oil as well. Not enough protective
value. Lacquer? Too nasty to use. I was going to use some brush on. I
wonder if that is acceptable or whether any 'real' furniture builder
would have a nice spray rig.

On 24 Feb 2004 13:17:29 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
scribbled:

Everybody's mother WAS a virgin.

Is Norm Jewish or does someone think Abram sounds Jewish? Honest question. I've
never thought about it before. Probably never again.

I haven't got a clue, and I care as much as you probably do. I vaguely
remember someone asking or mentioning it or arguing about it on the
wreck many years ago. I just thought it was a good line and stole it
for the Anti-FAQ.

Ah! Actually, a Google search revealed that the Heartbreak Kid once
said, back in 1996 when I started lurking he "I believe that you
are in error: although he is Jewish and a carpenter, he is not God."
So, that's where I got the line.

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address

Y'need new glasses, Charlie, or perhaps you should sit closer to the front
of the class. Luigi's statement that "Norm is Jewish and a carpenter and his
mother was a virgin. 'Nuff said!" seems an obvious reference to someone
else who flourished a couple millennia ago....

You also passed on my rejoinder that Norm could not speak ex cathedra
without his brad nailer in hand as well.


"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
mttt asks:

Is Norm Jewish or does someone think Abram sounds Jewish? Honest
question.
I've
never thought about it before. Probably never again.

Half a dozen rejoinders popped to mind.
All of them without malice intended; all likely to offend someone,
someplace. sigh

Well, I still don't know, which fits right up there with how much I care.
My
remark was to the person who said he was Jewish, not meant as a snip at
either
Abram or Judaism.

I wouldn't even care if he was Scottish or Irish.

All hell - "vive l'difference" and "can't we all just get along?".

Well, no. No reason we should. But the arguments shouldn't be based on
religion.

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:58:40 -0500, Nova
wrote:

LRod wrote:

You're wasting your time p, or should I call you Mr. i? I've seen his
type on the internet for years; all criticism, no examples of his own,
better, work.

I take it that you don't subscribe to "alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking"
or "alt.binaries.pictures.furniture".

I do not.

If I had to choose a piece of furniture made by either Norm or Mike it
would be Mr. Hide's for sure.

It's all a matter of personal preference. The computer desk is not my
cup of tea. I wouldn't own it. But that has nothing to do with whether
the workmanship is acceptable or the choice of finish. However, saying
it's a piece of crap and not a good example of woodworking for the
world to see just because it isn't my taste would be wrong.

I didn't see anything in either the joinery or the finish that would
tip the balance.

And I still haven't found out what this mystical wreck approved finish
is. I see he used lacquer on the wall. That's not often a practical
choice for a variety of reasons. I hope that's not it.




- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:03:04 GMT, "Mike Hide"
wrote:

Added a web page for your information, paneled room and desk both in laquer
...mjh http://members.tripod.com/mikehide2

Nice looking wall work. Thanks for the link.

Does this mean that lacquer is the only acceptable finish for us to be
pursuing?

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:23:09 -0500, "
brought forth from the murky depths:

At halftime??

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:49:52 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

Celebrities do have some responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.


Immediately following the Super bowl,

George W. Bush called the Patriots and complimented
them on a great game.

Al Gore called the Panthers and said he thought they
were robbed.

Bill Clinton called Janet Jackson.


----------------------------------------------------------
--== EAT RIGHT...KEEP FIT...DIE ANYWAY ==--
http://www.diversify.com/stees.html - Schnazzy Tees online
----------------------------------------------------------

Ok now I have added a couple of pieces I french polished ,just to prove I
have not always been enamored with laquer.

In my opinion french polish is unsurpassed as far as a finish is concerned,
however it is fragile and temperamental because the application technique
takes time and patience to perfect.
Laquer is a far more forgiving and thus is a preferred finish because of its
capability to absorb abuse, it seals the wood effectively and provides
excellent protection to it.

The trick is to find a way to make a laquer finish to look for all intents
and purposes like a french polish finish


"LRod" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:58:40 -0500, Nova
wrote:

LRod wrote:

You're wasting your time p, or should I call you Mr. i? I've seen his
type on the internet for years; all criticism, no examples of his own,
better, work.

I take it that you don't subscribe to "alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking"
or "alt.binaries.pictures.furniture".

I do not.

If I had to choose a piece of furniture made by either Norm or Mike it
would be Mr. Hide's for sure.

It's all a matter of personal preference. The computer desk is not my
cup of tea. I wouldn't own it. But that has nothing to do with whether
the workmanship is acceptable or the choice of finish. However, saying
it's a piece of crap and not a good example of woodworking for the
world to see just because it isn't my taste would be wrong.

I didn't see anything in either the joinery or the finish that would
tip the balance.

And I still haven't found out what this mystical wreck approved finish
is. I see he used lacquer on the wall. That's not often a practical
choice for a variety of reasons. I hope that's not it.




- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net