On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:46:05 GMT, "Mike Hide"
wrote:

Ok now I have added a couple of pieces I french polished ,just to prove I
have not always been enamored with laquer.

In my opinion french polish is unsurpassed as far as a finish is concerned,
however it is fragile and temperamental because the application technique
takes time and patience to perfect.
Laquer is a far more forgiving and thus is a preferred finish because of its
capability to absorb abuse, it seals the wood effectively and provides
excellent protection to it.

The trick is to find a way to make a laquer finish to look for all intents
and purposes like a french polish finish

Still and all, and the entire point of my displeasure with the railing
against Norm's choice of finishes, it's all a matter of what YOU like
to do, are comfortable doing, and have the means to do. It's also a
matter of personal taste as well as, as you mentioned, functionality.

No one finish can possibly meet all of those requirements. Some may be
more desirable than others, some may even have more of a cachet than
others, but at the end of the day each choice of finish is a
legitimate choice from the standpoint of the craftsman. Anyone else's
opinion doesn't mean spit and it isn't a measure of the worth of the
craftsman.


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:46:05 GMT, "Mike Hide"
wrote:

Ok now I have added a couple of pieces I french polished ,just to prove I
have not always been enamored with laquer.

In my opinion french polish is unsurpassed as far as a finish is
concerned,
however it is fragile and temperamental because the application
technique
takes time and patience to perfect.
Laquer is a far more forgiving and thus is a preferred finish because of
its
capability to absorb abuse, it seals the wood effectively and provides
excellent protection to it.

The trick is to find a way to make a laquer finish to look for all
intents
and purposes like a french polish finish

Still and all, and the entire point of my displeasure with the railing
against Norm's choice of finishes, it's all a matter of what YOU like
to do, are comfortable doing, and have the means to do. It's also a
matter of personal taste as well as, as you mentioned, functionality.
No one finish can possibly meet all of those requirements. Some may be
more desirable than others, some may even have more of a cachet than
others, but at the end of the day each choice of finish is a
legitimate choice from the standpoint of the craftsman. Anyone else's
opinion doesn't mean spit and it isn't a measure of the worth of the
craftsman.

Well I must admit I agree with you. If the craftsman wishes and likes an
inferior finish thats up to the individual. apparently Norms choice of
finishes was that a mahogany stain was too red so he used a walnut stain .I
wonder which of the hundreds of mahogany stains he was referring to.Of
course you and I realize a stain is not a finish, just a colorant anyway.
And I agree with you no one finish can possibly meet all reqirements
,however laquer meets most ,can you suggest one that does meet those
requirements better ? I have not found it, perhaps you can enlighten me .

As I said earlier however well a piece is designed or built if the finish is
crap so is the piece ....mjh



- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

"Mike Hide" wrote:

As I said earlier however well a piece is designed or built if the finish is
crap so is the piece ....mjh

What finish do you use on carved chairs?

Ken Muldrew

(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)

Mike Hide wrote:
"LRod" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 03:16:58 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


While the show encourges woodworking, I imagine that some people get
frustrated because it takes them a half hour to set up a cut and Norm has
the whole project built in that time. And they think they must have the
Wood-O-Matic to do anything good.

If they aren't smart enough to realize that the project isn't *really*
built in half an hour, they don't deserve a Wood-O-Matic.

Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called
television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever
enough to have noticed that.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999



Norms shows are entertainment but many consider them to be instructional,
anyone but a rank amateur who sees the show as instructional knows these
projects are not done in 30 minutes.

As I said earlier Norm is in fact a glorified carpenter. At least in other
show TOH he uses experts in the various field of house renovation. So why
not someone who knows at least the rudiments of finishing in his other show
. After all the finishing aspects are just as important as how the thing is
built ,if the finish is crap so is the end item.....mjh

The first episode of the Windsor chair aired here over the weekend.
Chair making
was demonstrated by an expert. Many specialized jigs and hand carving
of the seta. Norm did the same including using the hand tools

to carve the seat. Next week a return to the chair makers shop is promised
to see the expert on finishing. Sounds like just what you want.
John

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...


mttt asks:


I wouldn't even care if he was Scottish or Irish.

Say - he does take a shine to Plaid, now - doesn't he?!?


But the arguments shouldn't be based on religion.

Add in "race, gender, choice-of-finish" and I'm with ya'!

On 24 Feb 2004 19:39:32 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:


I wouldn't even care if he was Scottish or Irish.

Just so long as he's not Swiss.

Everyone hates the Swiss.

And they deserve it, too.

Swiss bastiges. . .


Say, did ya hear the one, "Two Swiss guys go into a bar. . ."




Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

showing my ignance ,what do "ex cathedra" mean...mjh


"George" wrote in message
...
Y'need new glasses, Charlie, or perhaps you should sit closer to the front
of the class. Luigi's statement that "Norm is Jewish and a carpenter and
his
mother was a virgin. 'Nuff said!" seems an obvious reference to someone
else who flourished a couple millennia ago....

You also passed on my rejoinder that Norm could not speak ex cathedra
without his brad nailer in hand as well.


"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
mttt asks:

Is Norm Jewish or does someone think Abram sounds Jewish? Honest
question.
I've
never thought about it before. Probably never again.

Half a dozen rejoinders popped to mind.
All of them without malice intended; all likely to offend someone,
someplace. sigh

Well, I still don't know, which fits right up there with how much I
care.
My
remark was to the person who said he was Jewish, not meant as a snip at
either
Abram or Judaism.

I wouldn't even care if he was Scottish or Irish.

All hell - "vive l'difference" and "can't we all just get along?".

Well, no. No reason we should. But the arguments shouldn't be based on
religion.

"mttt" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...


mttt asks:


I wouldn't even care if he was Scottish or Irish.

Say - he does take a shine to Plaid, now - doesn't he?!?


But the arguments shouldn't be based on religion.

Add in "race, gender, choice-of-finish" and I'm with ya'!

How about the one ...there was a young girl from Madras
who had a very fine ass,
not round and pink as you may think,
but was grey, had long ears and who ate grass. alway did like that one
.....mjh


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On 24 Feb 2004 19:39:32 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:


I wouldn't even care if he was Scottish or Irish.

Just so long as he's not Swiss.

Everyone hates the Swiss.

And they deserve it, too.

Swiss bastiges. . .


Say, did ya hear the one, "Two Swiss guys go into a bar. . ."




Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:26:23 GMT, "Mike Hide"
wrote:

How about the one .

How about this one?

A guy sends his wife to the drug store for deodorant, she can't
remember what kind to get.

Wife: "I don't know what kind of deodorant to get for my husband."

Employee: "Does he use the ball kind?"

Wife: "No, the underarm kind is what he normally uses."


boom-crash! G

Barry

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:21:56 GMT, "Mike Hide"
wrote:

showing my ignance ,what do "ex cathedra" mean...mjh

It means "from the chair" (of St. Peter).

Specifically, it refers to a precondition for infallible declarations
by the Pope. He must be speaking on matters of faith and morals and
must declare his intent to be speaking "ex cathedra"; that is, with
the authority conferred on St. Peter as Pastor and chief Doctor of the
church.

For a more scholarly treatment see the following:




"A sheriff could never subpoeni
Giovanni Baptiste Montini {1}
Cause no one would ever dare quibble
With a man who is infallibibble"

(unknown c. 1970's C.E.)


{1) aka Pope Paul VI (rip)





Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

LRod wrote:

Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called
television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever
enough to have noticed that.


My point it that most of Norm's project are complete quickly, much faster
than the new guy starting out. He makes it looks so easy that people have
expectations that they will be able to do the same if they have a
Wood-O-Matic, just like Norm. I would think you'd be clever enough to have
noticed that.
--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 03:44:20 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

LRod wrote:

Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called
television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever
enough to have noticed that.


My point it that most of Norm's project are complete quickly, much faster
than the new guy starting out. He makes it looks so easy that people have
expectations that they will be able to do the same if they have a
Wood-O-Matic, just like Norm. I would think you'd be clever enough to have
noticed that.

Okay, Mr. TV Producer, how exactly would you produce the show?
Remember, you only have 24 minutes (less, if it's not on PBS) to get
your episode in.

How much time do you want to devote to repairing gaffs?

In the wine cabinet episode, he cut 100 pieces for the rack; how many
of those cuts should have been shown so as to avoid anyone getting the
impression that it ain't as easy as it looks?

Should we see all the dadoes being cut so that no one thinks this
project is cake?

Duuhhh, I only saw him plane one board...duuhhh, does that mean I
don't have to plane the others? Yuck, yuck, yuck.

How about ALL of the brads? Include them?

Clearly there's much more sanding that needs to be done than is
regularly shown. We can't have people thinking that not much sanding
is needed; perhaps we can show more of that.

Some of the "experts" here already rag on the program for not
demonstrating the filling of brad holes; maybe we better get 20 or 30
seconds of that in there. Shoot, we have allegedly smart people right
here on the wreck that think that since they didn't show that he must
have slathered the inappropriate finish right over those gaping
crevasses.

We only have 24 minutes available, if we include all of that, what do
we leave out?

Come on, you must have a better idea of how we can best serve the
great unwashed. Tell us the wreck approved method of taking 16+ hours
of work and compressing it into 24 minutes of TV woodworking show
production without making it look too easy.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

LRod wrote:

Okay, Mr. TV Producer, how exactly would you produce the show?
Remember, you only have 24 minutes (less, if it's not on PBS) to get
your episode in.

How much time do you want to devote to repairing gaffs?

Maybe an entire show. You really could devote a lot of time showing how to
recover from errors.


In the wine cabinet episode, he cut 100 pieces for the rack; how many
of those cuts should have been shown so as to avoid anyone getting the
impression that it ain't as easy as it looks?

Cutting 100? That is easy once you have the setup done. I've often made
two or three items at a time because it is so easy one you've determined the
dimension and set the tools. Making triplicates does not take three times as
long as making one and then Ih ave a couple of gifts.



Some of the "experts" here already rag on the program for not
demonstrating the filling of brad holes; maybe we better get 20 or 30
seconds of that in there. Shoot, we have allegedly smart people right
here on the wreck that think that since they didn't show that he must
have slathered the inappropriate finish right over those gaping
crevasses.

We only have 24 minutes available, if we include all of that, what do
we leave out?

Maybe nothing. If the project is big enough, take two shows to do it.


Come on, you must have a better idea of how we can best serve the
great unwashed. Tell us the wreck approved method of taking 16+ hours
of work and compressing it into 24 minutes of TV woodworking show
production without making it look too easy.


What is the intention of the show aside from making money? Educate?
Demonstrate? How about a show devoted to different woods and different
finishes? Maybe that would be of interest, but then they could not sell a
measured drawing. How about a show devoted to tools (both hand and powered)
and what they can do? That would make his sponsors happy and the Viewers
would know how to properly use a plane, brad nailer and biscuit joiner.
(yes, I have all three).

There are all sorts of viewers every week, some brand new, some seasoned
fans, all looking for new ideas or education. So why not mix it up a little?
Why do I watch? To see just how he does certain things. While a particular
project may not appeal to me, I may learn a better way to do a dado, rout a
groove, or mount some hardware that can be applied to a competely different
project.

One thing I would do though (getting back to my original post) is to use
real walnut instead of putting walnut stain on mahogany. Since it was a TV
tray, I'd use poly for the finish because of it durability and ease of
cleaning.


--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

No one said he can't and no one cares what he does in the privacy of his
shop with consenting adults..

Celebrities do have some
responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.
Ed

Geez Ed, it's not like he beat up his wife and screwed some hooker.
It's freakin' STAIN!!!

"Larry Bud" wrote in message

Geez Ed, it's not like he beat up his wife and screwed some hooker.
It's freakin' STAIN!!!

Right, it will not change my life or yours.

But is was wood related and I voiced my opinion. Rather that use stain, he
could have bought real walnut for less than the mahogany he was coloring.
Hey, that's just my opinion and you can voice yours also.
Ed

(Ken Muldrew) wrote:

"Mike Hide" wrote:

As I said earlier however well a piece is designed or built if the finish is
crap so is the piece ....mjh

What finish do you use on carved chairs?

Serious question, Mike. Do you spray lacquer on carved pieces? Do you
rub it out? What did you use before you had spray gear?

Ken Muldrew

(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)

Maybe he did buy the mahogany. . .

--
SwampBug
- - - - - - - - - - - -


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Larry Bud" wrote in message

Geez Ed, it's not like he beat up his wife and screwed some hooker.
It's freakin' STAIN!!!

Right, it will not change my life or yours.

But is was wood related and I voiced my opinion. Rather that use stain,
he
could have bought real walnut for less than the mahogany he was coloring.
Hey, that's just my opinion and you can voice yours also.
Ed

Ken ,When I started out I was renting in a city environment and working out
of a basement ,spray equipment was out of the question ,so I learned to
French polish. French polishing is fine for chairs and any thing that the
surface is not subject to any chemicals such as water alcohol etc .

The dining table that I added to the my web site was French polished at the
customers insistence [even though I recommended against it ] it looked
beautiful . The table surface was ruined several years later when her
husband passed away and the table was set up for a wake by her friends and
neighbors .

Over the years I have evolved a procedure ,and a procedure is the trick ,
something you do time and time again and it guarantees a satisfactory result
practically every time .

Initially I used alaline and other water stains because they were the best
unpigmented stains and when French polished they stayed put. however they
are a pain to use because they raise the grain .To avoid this I would "water
" the surface at least three times with a glue size let it dry and resand
before staining the piece, very time consuming. So to reduce the workload I
started using the alcohol and laquer analine stains ,essentially they are
non grain raising . The problem I found with these when French polished they
amalgamated with the polish and became blotchy . when shot with laquer
products they would migrate as the laquer and alcohol were natural solvents
for the stains . I went through a bunch of stains and finally can across
stains by Mohawk [behlen] called "ultra"stains which did not bleed had a
long "open" time and were unpigmented.I have used them ever since . I have
recently used some pigmented MLCampbell stains on some walnut which I found
lightened the walnut, it was by accident and I have yet to understand why
this stain does lighten walnut.

So I now base stain with ultra stains [my favorite being brown mahogany]. In
addition to the basic stain colors the mahoganies and walnuts I also have
green red and black . these allow my to warm the stain [adding red] ,harden
it [add green, kills red], or darken it [add black] I forgot lighten any
stain [add reducer].

So I stain to get the color as I want it then I shoot it with sealer to trap
the color in .after that I shoot again several times rubbing down lightly
between coats,after that two or three at most coats of laquer [all
MLCampbell products] before the final coat goes on I usually cover the
whole thing with a coat of asphaltum ,a rich dark brown stain thinned with
mineral spirits . while still wet as much as possible is wiped off with a
rag so all that is left is in the cracks and crevices and will give life to
the finish and any carved detail, leave this to dry overnight then apply the
final coat of laquer .

I always use gloss laquer ,so the piece will end up looking rather "bright"
so I take a 0000 steel wool pad soaked in water and "woolwax" [behlem
product] and rub the whole thing down to a eggshell finish. To me it looks
pretty good. that's my finishing procedure mjh



"Ken Muldrew" wrote in message
...
(Ken Muldrew) wrote:

"Mike Hide" wrote:

As I said earlier however well a piece is designed or built if the
finish is
crap so is the piece ....mjh

What finish do you use on carved chairs?

Serious question, Mike. Do you spray lacquer on carved pieces? Do you
rub it out? What did you use before you had spray gear?

Ken Muldrew

(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)

"Mike Hide" wrote in message news:R9c%b.59539
The table surface was ruined several years later when her
husband passed away and the table was set up for a wake by her friends and
neighbors .


They laid the guy out on the table?

On 25 Feb 2004 10:16:03 -0800, (Larry Bud)
brought forth from the murky depths:

No one said he can't and no one cares what he does in the privacy of his
shop with consenting adults..

Celebrities do have some
responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.
Ed

Geez Ed, it's not like he beat up his wife and screwed some hooker.
It's freakin' STAIN!!!

Right. And that's a good reference. There should be similar
punishment for either of the two crimes.

--Friends don't let friends use stain--



----------------------------------------------------------
--== EAT RIGHT...KEEP FIT...DIE ANYWAY ==--
http://www.diversify.com/stees.html - Schnazzy Tees online
----------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:36:10 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Larry Bud" wrote in message

Geez Ed, it's not like he beat up his wife and screwed some hooker.
It's freakin' STAIN!!!

Right, it will not change my life or yours.

But is was wood related and I voiced my opinion. Rather that use stain, he
could have bought real walnut for less than the mahogany he was coloring.

Uh, did it occur to you that he wasn't staining the mahogany to look
like walnut? Do you think maybe he was using a stain that happened to
be walnut colored to give the mahogany a different hue.


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

No, this was a traditional reception after the funeral. The friends put hot
chafing dishes and hot plates on the table without place mats and the like
.....mjh


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. com...

"Mike Hide" wrote in message news:R9c%b.59539
The table surface was ruined several years later when her
husband passed away and the table was set up for a wake by her friends
and
neighbors .


They laid the guy out on the table?

LRod wrote:


Uh, did it occur to you that he wasn't staining the mahogany to look
like walnut? Do you think maybe he was using a stain that happened to
be walnut colored to give the mahogany a different hue.


- -
LRod

Did you see the show? He inferred that mahogany is in need of some help
with the color. That should be left to the user, not the man with a lot of
influence over how people do woodworking. Yes,he does have a lot of
influence as all TV personalities do.

Of course it does not matter what my opinion is, you will defend his right
to have a poor influence over many people's choices. If you go back to my
oringinal post, I was saying it was a terrible choice. I stated my opinion.
I'm sure it will not change YOR opinion. I guess the difference is that
while I like the guy, you seem to adore him and made a shrine of sorts to
his show. Good for you. My mind is a bit more open when it comes to Norm.
He does a lot of nice things and I've learned some things fromhism, but I
also know that just like me, he has faults. --
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:55:52 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

LRod wrote:


Uh, did it occur to you that he wasn't staining the mahogany to look
like walnut? Do you think maybe he was using a stain that happened to
be walnut colored to give the mahogany a different hue.


- -
LRod

Did you see the show?

Every single one of them.

He inferred that mahogany is in need of some help with the color.

You inferred that. He implied it. I said it outright.

That should be left to the user,

Uh, that would be him. Or Morash. In either case...

not the man with a lot of influence over how people do woodworking.

So because someone has a lot of influence (blah, blah, blah) they are
no longer permitted to make the choices that you confer on other
users?

Of course it does not matter what my opinion is, you will defend his right
to have a poor influence over many people's choices. If you go back to my
oringinal post, I was saying it was a terrible choice. I stated my opinion.
I'm sure it will not change YOR opinion. I guess the difference is that
while I like the guy, you seem to adore him and made a shrine of sorts to
his show.

Ahhh, I guess we're done with the issues and on to straw men. A
shrine? It's just a reference work. Doesn't even editorialize on his
"choices."

Good for you. My mind is a bit more open when it comes to Norm.

Saying it is so, doesn't make it so.

He does a lot of nice things and I've learned some things fromhism, but I
also know that just like me, he has faults. --

Yes, let's clear the channels of all except those without faults.


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

"p_j" wrote in message
...



He inferred that mahogany is in need of some help
with the color.

No, YOU inferred.

I did? I thought the mahogany was just fine. He said it was not, thus the
NEED for stain. Yes, I did capitalize NEED because he said mahogany is just
too red and he had to put stain on it. .

It was a show with a 1994 copyright. If you want to see it, perhaps it is
still available on tape.



... or a different opinion

I'm sorry, I did not realize he is perfect. Thanks for pointing out that
his "faults" are just a different opinion than mine.
Ed

"LRod" wrote in message

That should be left to the user,

Uh, that would be him. Or Morash. In either case...

But if he wants to educate, he should offer choices, show options. Not just
say "mahogany is too red so I'm adding walnut stain." It would be better to
show the natural wood with a finish and then go on to express his opinion
and do the stain.



So because someone has a lot of influence (blah, blah, blah) they are
no longer permitted to make the choices that you confer on other
users?

See above statement. People ARE influence by his choices and decisions. He
can make any choice he wants. If I'm instructing people, I show them
options.
Ed

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:58:19 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"LRod" wrote in message

That should be left to the user,

Uh, that would be him. Or Morash. In either case...

But if he wants to educate, he should offer choices, show options. Not just
say "mahogany is too red so I'm adding walnut stain." It would be better to
show the natural wood with a finish and then go on to express his opinion
and do the stain.

A finishing special would be interesting.

Barry

Ed Pawlowski states:

hat should be left to the user, not the man with a lot of
influence over how people do woodworking. Yes,he does have a lot of
influence as all TV personalities do.

You're kidding, right? Or you've never seen the Parkersburg "news
personalities." I've gotten so I can barely watch the show for fits of laughing
at their malapropisms and general lack of knowledge about any subject
whatsoever, including how to speak the English language. I guess that's
influence, but I don't think it's what you mean.

Basically, a person watching, or reading, has some obligation to the material,
to learn enough to make a judgment call. If that isn't done, then whatever that
person gets is probably close to what he deserves.

Yeah, I know tyros need more help, but forcing a show to cater only to tyros is
limiting the show drastically.

I've seen mahogany that is helped by staining, as I've seen walnut and cherry
that are helped by staining. Someone else might disagree with me: hell, I like
the natural color of white oak, but these days unfumed white oak seems to be
anathema to most woodworkers. Personally, I don't much care for the emphasis
fuming places on the rays: they're much more attractive (to me) in a more
natural state.

So, as used to be said in the '70s, different strokes for different folks.

He does a lot of nice things and I've learned some things fromhism, but I
also know that just like me, he has faults. --

I'm glad you guys got all the faults.

Charlie Self
I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected.

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

"p_j" wrote in message
...
Mike Hide wrote:

Added a web page for your information, paneled room and desk both in
laquer
...mjh http://members.tripod.com/mikehide2

How odd that you show paneling in an interior to demonstrate that you
are vastly superior because you are more than "just a carpenter."
Paneling as well as built ins are typically done by carpenters.

Thanks for the compliment, I can assure you it is not justified, your
description not mine .

And for information these are not typical built ins as done by carpenters
,that's why I was asked to do the job .
Again I am sure if a carpenter could have done the job there were plenty on
site including trim carpenters that the superintendent ,architect or even
the customer could have selected .

It includes several unusual design elements like the odd space next to
the desk, the narrow panel next to the windows, the narrow mitered
casings in the context of the room, use of a chair rail and use of
baseboard rather than use of the lowest rail.

Regarding the area next to the door the architect specified the cased door
opening even the double doors. My initial design was a single door opening
to the side of the bookcase. In addition the Carpenters had screwed up the
wall in this room to accommodate equipment in the room behind it.the actual
door frame area was bumped out nearly 9 inches from the wall plane.

Each double door is 13" wide and is designed to fit inside the door casing
so that when open they look like a continuation of the regular room wall
paneling .Both doors have to be open as there is not sufficient access to
get into the room . Normally with a double door entrance one door can remain
closed and there is still sufficient room to provide access.

I designed it but had to incorporate these stipulations by the architect and
the customer.

So to answer you question that is the reason for the small recessed panel
between the bookcase and the cased doorway.It does have its points I suppose
as there are more exposed outside corners in the moldings which always gives
more interest .

As far as the narrow panel next to the windows, those areas were left by the
carpenters when they framed the windows. Perhaps you would have had them run
the windows all the way into the adjacent walls, in my view that would have
been a disaster.

As far as what you call a "built in" that is actually a fitted breakfront .
Under the left hand bookcase are two lateral file cabinets .under the right
hand bookcase are provisions for a printer, fax machine,scanner, paper et
al.


All the doors as can be seen mirror the paneling under the chair rail area
of the room . The chair rail area above the knee hole flips down and pulls
out housing a keyboard and an area for a mouse pad, of course the center
section houses the computer monitor behind rollback doors using a mechanism
of my own design [featured long before the commercial ones of today, grass
hinges on drawerslides] .


Many people who are just carpenters would consider those errors.

Of course they would particularly if they were uninformed


As for the finish, I personally don't care for undarkened plain sawn
oak. With the excessive detail and raised panels (another unusual
choice) it is loud to say the least.

Well believe it or not it is stained, and giving the customer several
options that is what HE liked and lets face it that is what matters.
Just as Norm decided to put a walnut stain on a perfectly good piece of
mahogany, which poses the question to the likes of me or perhaps Ed ,why not
in that case use poplar, or some other inexpensive wood rather than
something that can be made beautiful.
Presumably from all accounts Norm decided that mahogany was too red [I did
not see the show personally] that was his reasoning for using a walnut
stain. I my opinion that shows ignorance of the basics of finishing . Again
inasmuch that the finishing can make or break a piece of furniture the
people who run the show should get Norm off the screen and get a qualified
finisher like Jewitt on the program for a whole series to teach the ins and
outs of finishing

It seems to me this would be an excellent idea [even if it comes from me ]
given the numerous posts on this group concerning finishing problems .

As far as the raised panels and the details, believe it or not some folks
have liked their rooms done like that for the last 400 years

I'm surprised the room didn't have a coffered ceiling.

the ceiling was a disaster. There was an added room above this room so the
ceiling joists were doubled up and additional supports added .No attempt was
made to make sure the ceiling was level or even the lower surface of the
scarfed in joists were coplanar. In the left hand corner above the "built
in" the ceiling dropped 2" in just over a foot. furthermore the normal
pitfalls were still there ,no corners plumb no corners square no walls flat
etc.


The computer desk has some odd design choices as well particularly the
miter to divide it where strength is needed and the joint is obvious,

Sorry I have no idea what you are referring to, however I can assure you
there is plenty of strength desi gned into the desk.


but what I'm curious about is what you are? You refer to Nahm as "just a
carpenter" and I'm curious what one becomes when being a carpenter is
transcended?

What am I, just a guy trying to make a living and doing what I like to do
best. What does one become when one transcends being a carpenter ? I have
no idea, but I would as You obviously believe they are already Gods, where
is there to go?

mjh

"Mike Hide" wrote:

[great stuff on finishing wood that isn't necessarily flat]

Thanks for that. I always thought that French polish wouldn't work
well on carved surfaces because it would be hard to avoid stopping in
places. The one carved chair I have made I brushed on shellac and
rubbed it out with a 3M grey pad + rottenstone. I wasn't really happy
with the finish (nor with the carving) but less discriminating folks
seem to like the chair (good design, probably).

BTW, I took your advice from last year and purchased "Fine Furniture
for the Amateur Cabinetmaker" by Andy Marlow. I've just about finished
with the practice projects. It's a great book and a very enjoyable way
to work wood. Thanks for the recommendation.

Ken Muldrew

(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)

My pleasure ,I think that little book is great for all levels of
woodworking, in my opinion it certainly contributes to the craft more than
most these days do, and you cannot beat the price .

As far as french polishing chairs it is not the easiest thing to do
especially from scratch .my procedure is to sand the crap out of them first
then stain using a NGR stain then polish pad the polish in . make the pad
cone shaped and use the nose to get into the tight spots .You will need a
pretty damp almost wet rubber to get into any carved detail and you will
also need to punch it into the carved detail pretty forcefully . give the
polish time to dry before hitting the area again when yo get into a corner
use a circular motion never stopping in one spot ,the addition of a small
drop of lindseed oil will help also to lube he rubber, but use it sparingly
if not you will end up with smears in the finish . To et rid of these smears
essentially you will need to pad them out with straight alcohol. Always
remember practice makes perfect and very few of us are there yet, but the
rewards are worth striving for....regards mjh


"Ken Muldrew" wrote in message
...
"Mike Hide" wrote:

[great stuff on finishing wood that isn't necessarily flat]

Thanks for that. I always thought that French polish wouldn't work
well on carved surfaces because it would be hard to avoid stopping in
places. The one carved chair I have made I brushed on shellac and
rubbed it out with a 3M grey pad + rottenstone. I wasn't really happy
with the finish (nor with the carving) but less discriminating folks
seem to like the chair (good design, probably).

BTW, I took your advice from last year and purchased "Fine Furniture
for the Amateur Cabinetmaker" by Andy Marlow. I've just about finished
with the practice projects. It's a great book and a very enjoyable way
to work wood. Thanks for the recommendation.

Ken Muldrew

(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)