Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
![]() |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I
glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in" tight fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer broke the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste would have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the bad joint. |
#2
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
It sounds as thoough one side of the maple may have had a coat of wax,
silicone spray or some other kind of contaminat. That sounds unkike any experience I have ever had with Gorilla glue. Guess it could be a bad batch. Also, I have heard that there is a shelf life of one-two years on a bottle so maybe yours is old stock? Is there a chance you squeezed all the glue out when you clamped? That's bout all the ideas I can come up with. Unless the bottom of the rabbet was not square with the 1/4. It won't bridge a large gap very well. If you used a wobble dado blade, it leaves the bottom of the joint rather rounded. On 20 Aug 2003 19:38:11 GMT, reg (Gfretwell) wrote: OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in" tight fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer broke the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste would have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the bad joint. |
#3
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
See if there is a date on the bottle, I've seen glue in stores that should have been off the shelf.
"Gfretwell" wrote in message ... : Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy etc. I just : bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was sealed. : : http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/joint.gif |
#4
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
See if there is a date on the bottle, I've seen glue in stores that should
have been off the shelf. The only numbers are 76395030515. I don't see a date in there. They say the shelf life is 3 years. |
#5
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
It doesn't look like there is any glue between the two pieces of wood. It
looks like there was nothing on the end grain of the short piece. Did it all squeeze out?. I just did a project with polyurethane glue, its the strongest wood glue I have ever used! Leslie "Gfretwell" wrote in message ... Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy etc. I just bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was sealed. http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/joint.gif |
#7
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
End grain joint. Any glue would fail.
OK guys we have a test in progress. I took some garden variety $5 a gallon white glue and made exactly the same joint in a clean section of the groove with the other end of the stick. |
#8
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
In article , "Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A." wrote:
Gfretwell wrote: Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy etc. I just bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was sealed. http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/joint.gif End grain joint. Any glue would fail. I'm not sure I agree. There's enough long grain there to give it some strength. Sure doesn't look like there was very much glue in the joint, though. And it definitely could have used some additional reinforcement such as a tenon or a biscuit. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com) |
#9
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
On 20 Aug 2003 20:41:29 GMT, Gfretwell wrote:
See if there is a date on the bottle, I've seen glue in stores that should have been off the shelf. The only numbers are 76395030515. I don't see a date in there. They say the shelf life is 3 years. Those last six numbers might mean May 15, 2003, but who knows.... david -- "We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to repair the health of our own people in this country." -- Rep. Dennis Kucinich -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#11
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Sounds like operator error...;~) But I cannot imagine that happening 2
times in a row. Probably bad or old product. I use the stuff and it works great. Things to keep in mind. DO NOT over tighten your clamps. Always add water to the mating side. Be certain that your surfaces are as flat as you can possibly make them. Again, your glue must be bad for it to fail so miserably. "Gfretwell" wrote in message ... OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in" tight fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer broke the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste would have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the bad joint. |
#12
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Too much 'wet'??
-- Tim -------- See my page @ http://www.wood-workers.com/users/timv/ (seriously needs updating) |
#13
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
OK, operator error like another poster indicated. end grain to long grain
is not going to be a strong joint with out a mortise and tennon, biscuit, dowel or screws to back up the glue. " |
#14
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]() "Ken Yee" wrote in message OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I Why did you wet it? I never wet wood. Used gorilla glue in some wood repair. There's no way those pieces of wood are coming apart :-) Read the directions on the bottle. Gorilla Glue and or polyurethane glue cures in the presence of moisture. Adding water speeds cure time. |
#15
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
"Leon" wrote in message
m... "Ken Yee" wrote in message OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I Why did you wet it? I never wet wood. Used gorilla glue in some wood repair. There's no way those pieces of wood are coming apart :-) Read the directions on the bottle. Gorilla Glue and or polyurethane glue cures in the presence of moisture. Adding water speeds cure time. But adding too much water, especially with a tight-grain wood like maple, causes the glue to foam into nothingness and never get into the pores. If the wood has 7-8% moisture content I've never had to add moisture and it has always held fine for me even in some very difficult situations. -- John McGaw [Knoxville, TN, USA] Return address will not work. Please reply in group or through my website: http://johnmcgaw.com |
#16
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
I glued up a joint likethta to see just how weak it would be since
nothing else is strong. I was amazed at how strong the bond was. My end grain was much smoother than your appears though. On 20 Aug 2003 20:15:58 GMT, reg (Gfretwell) wrote: Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy etc. I just bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was sealed. http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/joint.gif |
#17
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Don't like poly glue much but do have uses for it once and awhile. Never had
a problem with it's strength myself. But then I just dampen one side of the joint and only apply glue to the other side. I believe that is what the directions on the container calls for and it works pretty well for me. -- Mike G. Heirloom Woods www.heirloom-woods.net "Gfretwell" wrote in message ... OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in" tight fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer broke the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste would have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the bad joint. |
#18
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Gfretwell wrote:
Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy etc. I just bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was sealed. http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/joint.gif End grain joint. Any glue would fail. |
#19
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
I've been using Poly glues for a while. Just started using Gorilla glue. I
use a spray bottle of water to wet one side of the joint, apply the glue, and clamp it for a few hours. When I take the clamps off, it holds very tight. After letting it set overnight for a full cure, I finish my projects. Having used this product only last week, I'd say your results are very uncommon. Yes, end grain to long grain makes for a weak joint, but this glue should have held tight enough for the poly joint to "tear". This stuff sticks to just about anything. For it to not stick at all makes me think you've got an outdated product or there's some other factor (lots of sawdust in the joint maybe). Don't know, I wasn't there. I can tell you only that Poly glues typically work very well, which is why many of us use them. Robert "John McGaw" wrote in message .. . "Gfretwell" wrote in message ... OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in" tight fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer broke the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste would have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the bad joint. Your problem is probably defined in your statements "I wet it down good" and "'tap in' tight". Additional moisture is absolutely not needed in "normal" conditions and only the slightest bit of moisture is needed if you live in someplace with no humidity. I've found that wood with 7-8% moisture content will activate the glue just fine. The joint should not be so tight as to drive the glue out while fitting it together. There is some narrow range of fit which will work -- too tight and you don't have enough glue to do the job, too loose and the glue has to fill the gap and loses strength (this is true for all glues, not just the "gorilla" variety). Try it again and DON'T wet it at all, make the joint 'push together' tight, and see what happens then report back. I've used this stuff in very difficult glueups in hard maple and other hardwoods and can state without hesitation that it sticks fantastically well when used as intended. -- John McGaw [Knoxville, TN, USA] Return address will not work. Please reply in group or through my website: http://johnmcgaw.com |
#20
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
To heck with it!! Use titebond!!
"Gfretwell" wrote in message ... OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in" tight fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer broke the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste would have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the bad joint. |
#21
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]() "D K Woods" wrote in message .. . On 20 Aug 2003 20:41:29 GMT, Gfretwell wrote: See if there is a date on the bottle, I've seen glue in stores that should have been off the shelf. The only numbers are 76395030515. I don't see a date in there. They say the shelf life is 3 years. Those last six numbers might mean May 15, 2003, but who knows.... david -- "We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to repair the health of our own people in this country." -- Rep. Dennis Kucinich -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- You might want to change your signature quote to this one from Dennis Kucinich: "In our soul's Magnificent, we become conscious of the cosmos within us. We hear the music of peace, we hear the music of cooperation, we hear music of love. In our soul's forgetting, we become unconscious of our cosmic birthright, blighted with disharmony, disunity, torn asunder from the stars in a disaster ..." todd |
#22
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Hey folks,
Here is what I have found. About a year ago a friend of mine and I -- both longtime engineers -- made a test. We both had our opinions. He liked Gorilla glue, I liked good old yellow PVA woodworker's glue. We set up identical tests and tested the strength. We both found that they both had, if properly applied, nearly the same strength. We found that the PVA was slightly stronger in our tests. And the strength variations due to application were greater with the Gorilla Glue. The difference was not enough to be statistically significant. The conclusion I have come to is: PVA is the best for normal woodworking projects that do not need waterproof service. PVA is more forgiving in application (there is no special surface wetting and other concerns). Polyurethane (Gorilla Glue) can be used to attach materials that PVA cannot (metal, plastic, mirrors, etc). Polyurethane is better than even the type II PVA for wet applications. Gorilla Glue does not fill gaps (with any strength). Gorilla Glue is very, very messy and you absolutely need gloves or you will be wearing the stuff for days on your hands until the skin it is on wears off. Like most adhesives, they each have their place, but I think the PVA is much easier to work with and forgiving as long as you are working within its service parameters. Eric "John McGaw" wrote in message ... "Gfretwell" wrote in message ... OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in" tight fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer broke the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste would have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the bad joint. Your problem is probably defined in your statements "I wet it down good" and "'tap in' tight". Additional moisture is absolutely not needed in "normal" conditions and only the slightest bit of moisture is needed if you live in someplace with no humidity. I've found that wood with 7-8% moisture content will activate the glue just fine. The joint should not be so tight as to drive the glue out while fitting it together. There is some narrow range of fit which will work -- too tight and you don't have enough glue to do the job, too loose and the glue has to fill the gap and loses strength (this is true for all glues, not just the "gorilla" variety). Try it again and DON'T wet it at all, make the joint 'push together' tight, and see what happens then report back. I've used this stuff in very difficult glueups in hard maple and other hardwoods and can state without hesitation that it sticks fantastically well when used as intended. |
#23
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Franklin divulges the code readily so you can read date in the store.
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:00:07 -0500, D K Woods wrote: The only numbers are 76395030515. I don't see a date in there. They say the shelf life is 3 years. Those last six numbers might mean May 15, 2003, but who knows.... |
#24
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Why did you wet it?
It said to on the bottle? The first joints I made were dry and they snapped clean too. (edge to edge) I haven't seen any wood damage in any of the failed joints. So much for "the joint is stronger than the wood". BTW my white glue experiment came out exactly the same. Is this just a hard maple problem? |
#25
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
I just dampen one side of the
joint and only apply glue to the other side. I believe that is what the directions on the container calls for "...for hardwoods like oak or maple lightly dampen both surfaces" The first time (edge to edge joint) I wiped them with a damp rag. The joint I pictured was misted with a spray a bottle. Everything was cured overnight. The only things common are the wood itself and the glue. I have a dialog going with gorillaglue.com. Today I am going to glue up some other types of wood with this same glue. |
#26
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Makes you wonder why did you ask!
I ask because I don't know. At this point I am wondering wheter the best answer might be to ignore the common wisdom of having well manicured surfaces and to scuff up the wood with a chipped tooth table saw blade where it mates. (and I just threw one of those away) |
#27
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Someone here mentioned a possibility-that the end grain absorbed the
glue. I haven't run into that before but the picture did look as though the end grain was mighty porous. On 21 Aug 2003 16:01:32 GMT, reg (Gfretwell) wrote: I just dampen one side of the joint and only apply glue to the other side. I believe that is what the directions on the container calls for "...for hardwoods like oak or maple lightly dampen both surfaces" The first time (edge to edge joint) I wiped them with a damp rag. The joint I pictured was misted with a spray a bottle. Everything was cured overnight. The only things common are the wood itself and the glue. I have a dialog going with gorillaglue.com. Today I am going to glue up some other types of wood with this same glue. |
#28
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]() "Gfretwell" wrote in message ... Why did you wet it? It said to on the bottle? The first joints I made were dry and they snapped clean too. (edge to edge) I haven't seen any wood damage in any of the failed joints. So much for "the joint is stronger than the wood". BTW my white glue experiment came out exactly the same. Is this just a hard maple problem? It is an end grain to side grain problem..the way you are trying to glue the joint. Try glues on the maple, side grain to side grain and you will find that is not a maple or glue problem. |
#29
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]() "Gfretwell" wrote in message ... I just dampen one side of the joint and only apply glue to the other side. I believe that is what the directions on the container calls for "...for hardwoods like oak or maple lightly dampen both surfaces" The first time (edge to edge joint) I wiped them with a damp rag. The joint I pictured was misted with a spray a bottle. Everything was cured overnight. The only things common are the wood itself and the glue. I have a dialog going with gorillaglue.com. Today I am going to glue up some other types of wood with this same glue. Perhaps this is nothing new, but the joint has to be beyond perfect. Not a hair (real hair) width's crack anywhere. Lots of clamp pressure, too. -- Jim in NC-- |
#30
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]() todd wrote: "D K Woods" wrote in message .. . On 20 Aug 2003 20:41:29 GMT, Gfretwell wrote: "We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to repair the health of our own people in this country." -- Rep. Dennis Kucinich -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- You might want to change your signature quote to this one from Dennis Kucinich: "In our soul's Magnificent, we become conscious of the cosmos within us. We hear the music of peace, we hear the music of cooperation, we hear music of love. In our soul's forgetting, we become unconscious of our cosmic birthright, blighted with disharmony, disunity, torn asunder from the stars in a disaster ..." todd Why are you two quoting Dennis the Menace for any reason????? ARM |
#31
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Try glues on the maple, side grain to side grain and you will
find that is not a maple or glue problem. I have some failed side to side failures you can look at too. That was what started this. The "end grain" is in a mortise that is actually 3/8" deep" (I said 1/4 earlier). These are typical joints I see everywhere. I am about to shoot some stainless screws into these joints to save my $60 glue up. :-) So far the glue up is holding but the cut off pieces will easily fail BTW this is Gorrila Glue's answer "From: (Judy Tracy) To: As far as we know, that wasn't a bad lot, but other than sending you another bottle to try it again, I can't be of any more help. Most of the time the glue fails, it has to do with moisture. Judy |
#32
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Perhaps this is nothing new, but the joint has to be beyond perfect. Not a
hair (real hair) width's crack anywhere. Lots of clamp pressure, too. I certainly am getting all sides of this. :-) "It's too tight" "It's too loose" "Too wet" "Too dry" I think I am just going back to good old yellow glue. |
#33
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]() I think I am just going back to good old yellow glue. That's my favorite! If it ain't broke.................. -- Jim in NC-- |
#34
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:03:57 -0500, todd wrote:
"D K Woods" wrote in message .. . On 20 Aug 2003 20:41:29 GMT, Gfretwell wrote: See if there is a date on the bottle, I've seen glue in stores that should have been off the shelf. The only numbers are 76395030515. I don't see a date in there. They say the shelf life is 3 years. Those last six numbers might mean May 15, 2003, but who knows.... david -- "We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to repair the health of our own people in this country." -- Rep. Dennis Kucinich -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- You might want to change your signature quote to this one from Dennis Kucinich: "In our soul's Magnificent, we become conscious of the cosmos within us. We hear the music of peace, we hear the music of cooperation, we hear music of love. In our soul's forgetting, we become unconscious of our cosmic birthright, blighted with disharmony, disunity, torn asunder from the stars in a disaster ..." todd That....is an excellent quote. Thanks for sharing it! david -- "We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to repair the health of our own people in this country." -- Rep. Dennis Kucinich -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#36
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:03:23 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , wrote: It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese. -- Carl Sagan Remember that we're experimenting on the dolphins that were stupid enough to get caught. -- David Steup another excellent addition to my saved quotes! Who is David Steup though? I can't find anything on him. david -- It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese. -- Carl Sagan -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#37
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]() " -- "We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to repair the health of our own people in this country." -- Rep. Dennis Kucinich Why do so many people feel the need to add political or religious signatures to their posts? This could be a place where everyone can talk about woodworking, without someone else's baggage making them mad. Just a thought. -- Jim in NC-- |
#38
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
you think he's bad, Google Mike Zuchick's posts. I refer to him as Mike
Zealot. He hit up the Wreck a while back for donations for a burial. We all pretty much told him what he could do with his prosletizing and begging. dave Morgans wrote: " -- "We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to repair the health of our own people in this country." -- Rep. Dennis Kucinich Why do so many people feel the need to add political or religious signatures to their posts? This could be a place where everyone can talk about woodworking, without someone else's baggage making them mad. Just a thought. |
#39
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
In article , wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:03:23 GMT, Doug Miller wrote: In article , wrote: It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese. -- Carl Sagan Remember that we're experimenting on the dolphins that were stupid enough to get caught. -- David Steup another excellent addition to my saved quotes! Who is David Steup though? I can't find anything on him. He isn't famous, at least not yet. I went to college with him. One of the smartest people I've ever known. Has an MS in pharmacy, PhD in toxicology, and I don't know what else. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com) |
#40
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
"D K Woods" wrote in message
... It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese. -- Carl Sagan And that is a very nifty quote to use as your .sig. I'm gonna save it! |
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Undoing hide glue | UK diy | |||
Glue for Sony walkman headset? | UK diy | |||
Glue FAQ? | Woodworking | |||
Gorilla Glue | Woodworking | |||
Glueless laminate floor and glue.. | UK diy |