OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I
glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in" tight
fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer broke
the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste would
have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the bad
joint.

It sounds as thoough one side of the maple may have had a coat of wax,
silicone spray or some other kind of contaminat. That sounds unkike
any experience I have ever had with Gorilla glue. Guess it could be a
bad batch. Also, I have heard that there is a shelf life of one-two
years on a bottle so maybe yours is old stock? Is there a chance you
squeezed all the glue out when you clamped? That's bout all the ideas
I can come up with. Unless the bottom of the rabbet was not square
with the 1/4. It won't bridge a large gap very well. If you used a
wobble dado blade, it leaves the bottom of the joint rather rounded.



On 20 Aug 2003 19:38:11 GMT, reg (Gfretwell) wrote:

OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I
glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in" tight
fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer broke
the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste would
have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the bad
joint.

See if there is a date on the bottle, I've seen glue in stores that should have been off the shelf.
"Gfretwell" wrote in message
...
: Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy etc. I just
: bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was sealed.
:
: http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/joint.gif

See if there is a date on the bottle, I've seen glue in stores that should
have been off the shelf.

The only numbers are 76395030515. I don't see a date in there. They say the
shelf life is 3 years.

It doesn't look like there is any glue between the two pieces of wood. It
looks like there was nothing on the end grain of the short piece. Did it
all squeeze out?. I just did a project with polyurethane glue, its the
strongest wood glue I have ever used!

Leslie


"Gfretwell" wrote in message
...
Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy etc. I
just
bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was sealed.

http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/joint.gif

[posted and mailed]

reg (Gfretwell) wrote in
:

Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy
etc. I just bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was
sealed.

http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/joint.gif

That picture looks like you are gluing end grain to long grain?
--
Patrick Fitzgerald -
BarelyFitz Designs - http://www.barelyfitz.com/

End grain joint. Any glue would fail.



OK guys we have a test in progress. I took some garden variety $5 a gallon
white glue and made exactly the same joint in a clean section of the groove
with the other end of the stick.

In article , "Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A." wrote:
Gfretwell wrote:

Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy etc. I
just
bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was sealed.

http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/joint.gif

End grain joint. Any glue would fail.

I'm not sure I agree. There's enough long grain there to give it some
strength. Sure doesn't look like there was very much glue in the joint,
though. And it definitely could have used some additional reinforcement such
as a tenon or a biscuit.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

On 20 Aug 2003 20:41:29 GMT, Gfretwell wrote:

See if there is a date on the bottle, I've seen glue in stores that should
have been off the shelf.

The only numbers are 76395030515. I don't see a date in there. They say the
shelf life is 3 years.

Those last six numbers might mean May 15, 2003, but who knows....

david
--
"We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we
don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to
destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to
repair the health of our own people in this country."
-- Rep. Dennis Kucinich


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

reg (Gfretwell) wrote in
:

OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down
good. I

Why did you wet it?
I never wet wood. Used gorilla glue in some wood repair. There's
no way those pieces of wood are coming apart :-)


ken

Sounds like operator error...;~) But I cannot imagine that happening 2
times in a row. Probably bad or old product. I use the stuff and it works
great. Things to keep in mind.

DO NOT over tighten your clamps. Always add water to the mating side. Be
certain that your surfaces are as flat as you can possibly make them.

Again, your glue must be bad for it to fail so miserably.




"Gfretwell" wrote in message
...
OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I
glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in"
tight
fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer
broke
the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste
would
have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the
bad
joint.

Too much 'wet'??

--
Tim
--------
See my page @ http://www.wood-workers.com/users/timv/ (seriously needs
updating)

OK, operator error like another poster indicated. end grain to long grain
is not going to be a strong joint with out a mortise and tennon, biscuit,
dowel or screws to back up the glue.



"

"Ken Yee" wrote in message


OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down
good. I

Why did you wet it?
I never wet wood. Used gorilla glue in some wood repair. There's
no way those pieces of wood are coming apart :-)


Read the directions on the bottle. Gorilla Glue and or polyurethane glue
cures in the presence of moisture. Adding water speeds cure time.

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"Ken Yee" wrote in message


OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down
good. I

Why did you wet it?
I never wet wood. Used gorilla glue in some wood repair. There's
no way those pieces of wood are coming apart :-)


Read the directions on the bottle. Gorilla Glue and or polyurethane glue
cures in the presence of moisture. Adding water speeds cure time.


But adding too much water, especially with a tight-grain wood like maple,
causes the glue to foam into nothingness and never get into the pores. If
the wood has 7-8% moisture content I've never had to add moisture and it has
always held fine for me even in some very difficult situations.
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]

Return address will not work. Please
reply in group or through my website:
http://johnmcgaw.com

I glued up a joint likethta to see just how weak it would be since
nothing else is strong. I was amazed at how strong the bond was. My
end grain was much smoother than your appears though.



On 20 Aug 2003 20:15:58 GMT, reg (Gfretwell) wrote:

Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy etc. I just
bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was sealed.

http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/joint.gif

Don't like poly glue much but do have uses for it once and awhile. Never had
a problem with it's strength myself. But then I just dampen one side of the
joint and only apply glue to the other side. I believe that is what the
directions on the container calls for and it works pretty well for me.

--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Gfretwell" wrote in message
...
OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I
glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in"
tight
fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer
broke
the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste
would
have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the
bad
joint.

Gfretwell wrote:

Here is a picture. The wood was freshly cut so I doubt it was waxy etc. I just
bought the glue a couple days ago from HD and it was sealed.

http://members.aol.com/gfretwell/joint.gif

End grain joint. Any glue would fail.

I've been using Poly glues for a while. Just started using Gorilla glue. I
use a spray bottle of water to wet one side of the joint, apply the glue,
and clamp it for a few hours. When I take the clamps off, it holds very
tight. After letting it set overnight for a full cure, I finish my
projects. Having used this product only last week, I'd say your results are
very uncommon. Yes, end grain to long grain makes for a weak joint, but
this glue should have held tight enough for the poly joint to "tear". This
stuff sticks to just about anything. For it to not stick at all makes me
think you've got an outdated product or there's some other factor (lots of
sawdust in the joint maybe). Don't know, I wasn't there. I can tell you
only that Poly glues typically work very well, which is why many of us use
them.

Robert


"John McGaw" wrote in message
.. .
"Gfretwell" wrote in message
...
OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good.
I
glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in"
tight
fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer
broke
the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste
would
have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the
bad
joint.

Your problem is probably defined in your statements "I wet it down good"
and
"'tap in' tight". Additional moisture is absolutely not needed in "normal"
conditions and only the slightest bit of moisture is needed if you live in
someplace with no humidity. I've found that wood with 7-8% moisture
content
will activate the glue just fine. The joint should not be so tight as to
drive the glue out while fitting it together. There is some narrow range
of
fit which will work -- too tight and you don't have enough glue to do the
job, too loose and the glue has to fill the gap and loses strength (this
is
true for all glues, not just the "gorilla" variety). Try it again and
DON'T
wet it at all, make the joint 'push together' tight, and see what happens
then report back. I've used this stuff in very difficult glueups in hard
maple and other hardwoods and can state without hesitation that it sticks
fantastically well when used as intended.
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]

Return address will not work. Please
reply in group or through my website:
http://johnmcgaw.com

To heck with it!! Use titebond!!


"Gfretwell" wrote in message
...
OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I
glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in"
tight
fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer
broke
the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste
would
have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the
bad
joint.

"D K Woods" wrote in message
.. .
On 20 Aug 2003 20:41:29 GMT, Gfretwell wrote:

See if there is a date on the bottle, I've seen glue in stores that
should
have been off the shelf.

The only numbers are 76395030515. I don't see a date in there. They say
the
shelf life is 3 years.

Those last six numbers might mean May 15, 2003, but who knows....

david
--
"We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we
don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to
destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to
repair the health of our own people in this country."
-- Rep. Dennis Kucinich


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

You might want to change your signature quote to this one from Dennis
Kucinich:

"In our soul's Magnificent, we become conscious of the cosmos within us. We
hear the music of peace, we hear the music of cooperation, we hear music of
love. In our soul's forgetting, we become unconscious of our cosmic
birthright, blighted with disharmony, disunity, torn asunder from the stars
in a disaster ..."

todd

Hey folks,

Here is what I have found. About a year ago a friend of mine and I --
both longtime engineers -- made a test. We both had our opinions. He
liked Gorilla glue, I liked good old yellow PVA woodworker's glue.

We set up identical tests and tested the strength. We both found that
they both had, if properly applied, nearly the same strength. We
found that the PVA was slightly stronger in our tests. And the
strength variations due to application were greater with the Gorilla
Glue. The difference was not enough to be statistically significant.
The conclusion I have come to is:

PVA is the best for normal woodworking projects that do not need
waterproof service. PVA is more forgiving in application (there is no
special surface wetting and other concerns). Polyurethane (Gorilla
Glue) can be used to attach materials that PVA cannot (metal, plastic,
mirrors, etc). Polyurethane is better than even the type II PVA for
wet applications. Gorilla Glue does not fill gaps (with any
strength). Gorilla Glue is very, very messy and you absolutely need
gloves or you will be wearing the stuff for days on your hands until
the skin it is on wears off. Like most adhesives, they each have
their place, but I think the PVA is much easier to work with and
forgiving as long as you are working within its service parameters.

Eric

"John McGaw" wrote in message ...
"Gfretwell" wrote in message
...
OK I tried this stuff again. I was using hard maple, I wet it down good. I
glued both sides and seated a 1x2 into a 1/4" rabit that was a "tap in"
tight
fit. This was clamped overnight. The next day a light tap with a hammer
broke
the joint with absolutely no damage to the wood. I think library paste
would
have done a better job. Where did I go wrong? I can send pictures of the
bad
joint.

Your problem is probably defined in your statements "I wet it down good" and
"'tap in' tight". Additional moisture is absolutely not needed in "normal"
conditions and only the slightest bit of moisture is needed if you live in
someplace with no humidity. I've found that wood with 7-8% moisture content
will activate the glue just fine. The joint should not be so tight as to
drive the glue out while fitting it together. There is some narrow range of
fit which will work -- too tight and you don't have enough glue to do the
job, too loose and the glue has to fill the gap and loses strength (this is
true for all glues, not just the "gorilla" variety). Try it again and DON'T
wet it at all, make the joint 'push together' tight, and see what happens
then report back. I've used this stuff in very difficult glueups in hard
maple and other hardwoods and can state without hesitation that it sticks
fantastically well when used as intended.

Franklin divulges the code readily so you can read date in the store.

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:00:07 -0500, D K Woods
wrote:

The only numbers are 76395030515. I don't see a date in there. They say the
shelf life is 3 years.

Those last six numbers might mean May 15, 2003, but who knows....

Why did you wet it?

It said to on the bottle?

The first joints I made were dry and they snapped clean too. (edge to edge) I
haven't seen any wood damage in any of the failed joints. So much for "the
joint is stronger than the wood".
BTW my white glue experiment came out exactly the same. Is this just a hard
maple problem?

I just dampen one side of the
joint and only apply glue to the other side. I believe that is what the
directions on the container calls for

"...for hardwoods like oak or maple lightly dampen both surfaces"

The first time (edge to edge joint) I wiped them with a damp rag. The joint I
pictured was misted with a spray a bottle.
Everything was cured overnight.
The only things common are the wood itself and the glue. I have a dialog going
with gorillaglue.com.
Today I am going to glue up some other types of wood with this same glue.

Makes you wonder why did you ask!

I ask because I don't know.
At this point I am wondering wheter the best answer might be to ignore the
common wisdom of having well manicured surfaces and to scuff up the wood with a
chipped tooth table saw blade where it mates. (and I just threw one of those
away)

Someone here mentioned a possibility-that the end grain absorbed the
glue. I haven't run into that before but the picture did look as
though the end grain was mighty porous.

On 21 Aug 2003 16:01:32 GMT, reg (Gfretwell) wrote:

I just dampen one side of the
joint and only apply glue to the other side. I believe that is what the
directions on the container calls for

"...for hardwoods like oak or maple lightly dampen both surfaces"

The first time (edge to edge joint) I wiped them with a damp rag. The joint I
pictured was misted with a spray a bottle.
Everything was cured overnight.
The only things common are the wood itself and the glue. I have a dialog going
with gorillaglue.com.
Today I am going to glue up some other types of wood with this same glue.

"Gfretwell" wrote in message
...
Why did you wet it?

It said to on the bottle?

The first joints I made were dry and they snapped clean too. (edge to
edge) I
haven't seen any wood damage in any of the failed joints. So much for "the
joint is stronger than the wood".
BTW my white glue experiment came out exactly the same. Is this just a
hard
maple problem?

It is an end grain to side grain problem..the way you are trying to glue the
joint. Try glues on the maple, side grain to side grain and you will
find that is not a maple or glue problem.

"Gfretwell" wrote in message
...
I just dampen one side of the
joint and only apply glue to the other side. I believe that is what the
directions on the container calls for

"...for hardwoods like oak or maple lightly dampen both surfaces"

The first time (edge to edge joint) I wiped them with a damp rag. The
joint I
pictured was misted with a spray a bottle.
Everything was cured overnight.
The only things common are the wood itself and the glue. I have a dialog
going
with gorillaglue.com.
Today I am going to glue up some other types of wood with this same glue.

Perhaps this is nothing new, but the joint has to be beyond perfect. Not a
hair (real hair) width's crack anywhere. Lots of clamp pressure, too.
--
Jim in NC--

todd wrote:

"D K Woods" wrote in message
.. .
On 20 Aug 2003 20:41:29 GMT, Gfretwell wrote:

"We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we
don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to
destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to
repair the health of our own people in this country."
-- Rep. Dennis Kucinich


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

You might want to change your signature quote to this one from Dennis
Kucinich:

"In our soul's Magnificent, we become conscious of the cosmos within us. We
hear the music of peace, we hear the music of cooperation, we hear music of
love. In our soul's forgetting, we become unconscious of our cosmic
birthright, blighted with disharmony, disunity, torn asunder from the stars
in a disaster ..."

todd

Why are you two quoting Dennis the Menace for any reason?????
ARM

Try glues on the maple, side grain to side grain and you will
find that is not a maple or glue problem.

I have some failed side to side failures you can look at too. That was what
started this.
The "end grain" is in a mortise that is actually 3/8" deep" (I said 1/4
earlier).
These are typical joints I see everywhere.
I am about to shoot some stainless screws into these joints to save my $60 glue
up. :-)
So far the glue up is holding but the cut off pieces will easily fail

BTW this is Gorrila Glue's answer
"From: (Judy Tracy)
To:

As far as we know, that wasn't a bad lot, but other than sending you another
bottle to try it again, I can't be of any more help. Most of the time the
glue fails, it has to do with moisture.
Judy

Perhaps this is nothing new, but the joint has to be beyond perfect. Not a
hair (real hair) width's crack anywhere. Lots of clamp pressure, too.

I certainly am getting all sides of this. :-)
"It's too tight"
"It's too loose"
"Too wet"
"Too dry"


I think I am just going back to good old yellow glue.

I think I am just going back to good old yellow glue.

That's my favorite!

If it ain't broke..................
--
Jim in NC--

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:03:57 -0500, todd wrote:


"D K Woods" wrote in message
.. .
On 20 Aug 2003 20:41:29 GMT, Gfretwell wrote:

See if there is a date on the bottle, I've seen glue in stores that
should
have been off the shelf.

The only numbers are 76395030515. I don't see a date in there. They say
the
shelf life is 3 years.

Those last six numbers might mean May 15, 2003, but who knows....

david
--
"We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we
don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to
destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to
repair the health of our own people in this country."
-- Rep. Dennis Kucinich


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

You might want to change your signature quote to this one from Dennis
Kucinich:

"In our soul's Magnificent, we become conscious of the cosmos within us. We
hear the music of peace, we hear the music of cooperation, we hear music of
love. In our soul's forgetting, we become unconscious of our cosmic
birthright, blighted with disharmony, disunity, torn asunder from the stars
in a disaster ..."

todd

That....is an excellent quote. Thanks for sharing it!

david
--
"We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we
don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to
destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to
repair the health of our own people in this country."
-- Rep. Dennis Kucinich


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

In article , wrote:
It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being
has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
-- Carl Sagan

Remember that we're experimenting on the dolphins that were stupid enough to
get caught.
-- David Steup

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:03:23 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

In article , wrote:
It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being
has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
-- Carl Sagan

Remember that we're experimenting on the dolphins that were stupid enough to
get caught.
-- David Steup

another excellent addition to my saved quotes!

Who is David Steup though? I can't find anything on him.

david
--
It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being
has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
-- Carl Sagan


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

" --
"We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we
don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to
destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to
repair the health of our own people in this country."
-- Rep. Dennis Kucinich

Why do so many people feel the need to add political or religious signatures
to their posts? This could be a place where everyone can talk about
woodworking, without someone else's baggage making them mad.

Just a thought.
--
Jim in NC--

you think he's bad, Google Mike Zuchick's posts. I refer to him as Mike
Zealot. He hit up the Wreck a while back for donations for a burial.
We all pretty much told him what he could do with his prosletizing and
begging.

dave

Morgans wrote:

" --

"We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates and we
don't have money to build bridges in our major cities. We have money to
destroy the health of the Iraqi people and we don't have enough money to
repair the health of our own people in this country."
-- Rep. Dennis Kucinich


Why do so many people feel the need to add political or religious signatures
to their posts? This could be a place where everyone can talk about
woodworking, without someone else's baggage making them mad.

Just a thought.

In article , wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:03:23 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human being
has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
-- Carl Sagan

Remember that we're experimenting on the dolphins that were stupid enough to
get caught.
-- David Steup

another excellent addition to my saved quotes!

Who is David Steup though? I can't find anything on him.

He isn't famous, at least not yet. I went to college with him. One of the
smartest people I've ever known. Has an MS in pharmacy, PhD in toxicology, and
I don't know what else.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

"D K Woods" wrote in message
...

It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have
learned English -- up to 50 words used in correct context -- no human
being
has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
-- Carl Sagan

And that is a very nifty quote to use as your .sig. I'm gonna save it!