I do...many of my fellow friends who have shops overflowing with "good
stuff".

In my own case, I see it as a very slippery slope....one great thing
after another can follow you home until the doors to the shop won't
shut.

Sometimes...no many times...you just have to say "No".

Your thoughts?

TMT


http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2790669&page=1

Medical Mystery: Compulsive Hoarders
A Psychological Compulsion to Keep Everything, Even When It Ruins Your
Life
By CECILE BOUCHARDEAU

Jan. 16, 2007- - We are all pack rats to some degree. We hoard,
collect and buy more stuff than we have room to store.

But what if something in our brains made us incapable of throwing
things out? Janie Allocca and Lorraine Brennan both suffer from a
psychological disorder called compulsive hoarding -- an urge to hold on
to even the most mundane objects, even when they take over their lives.


Watch "Primetime: Medical Mysteries" Wednesday at 10 p.m. ET, and go to
ABCNEWS.com during the show to diagnose a real medical mystery.

Lorraine Brennan has been hoarding for nearly 20 years. She lives in a
two-story house in Massachusetts with her father, son and fiancée.
Most rooms in the house are cluttered, and some are even unusable. The
bedroom-office that she shares with her fiancée is overrun with stuff
they tried unsuccessfully to get rid of at a yard sale. Lorraine's
purse is bursting with junk mail and receipts.

Brennan's hoarding is not only ruining her life, but affecting her
entire family. Her son can't bring friends home from school. Brennan
and her fiancée have been engaged for eight years, but he hasn't been
able to commit to marrying her because of the clutter.


'There's No Place to Sit Down'

Many hoarders are also compulsive shoppers. Janie Allocca has
accumulated so much stuff that she uses her own house as a storage
facility and lives with her mother.

"I remember collecting, and keeping, and hoarding things since I can
remember," Allocca said. "And now I am just living around the piles and
piles I need to get rid of."

"I have so much stuff that my house is totally unlivable," she
continued. "There's no place to sit down. I can't get to the kitchen. I
can't have anyone over for tea even though I have everything for tea.
My collecting is taking up the space where I normally would live."

There's a fine line between simple clutter and extreme hoarding. Most
hoarders, observers say, are physically incapable of throwing things
out. They can't live in, or use, rooms like the kitchen for their
intended use. They also experience extreme distress from their
condition.


The Brain of a Hoarder

Hoarding is currently considered a subset of obsessive compulsive
disorder, but that may soon change. New research is finding that
hoarding may be a unique disorder completely separate from OCD.

Dr. David Tolin, director of the Anxiety Disorders Center at the
Institute of Living in Hartford, Conn., has devoted his career to
studying what goes on inside the mind of a hoarder.

"At the moment, compulsive hoarding hasn't been fully defined by the
psychiatric and psychological communities," he said. "One of the things
that we wanted to do was to understand some of the brain mechanisms
behind compulsive hoarding."

Allocca is part of a study Tolin is conducting to see which parts of a
hoarder's brain become active when they are faced with making
decisions. She is hooked up to a brain-scan machine and asked to look
at pieces of her mail and decide whether she wants them to be thrown
out. She then must watch the mail get shredded.

At this point, two parts of a hoarder's brain become active. The
brain's orbitofrontal cortex is involved in decision making and causes
a hoarder to process this experience as a punishing one. At the same
time, the hippocampus of a hoarder actively searches for memories about
the object. The hoarder tries to remember the object: what it is and
why they saved it in the first place. By contrast, people without
hoarding problems just don't think about the object that much.


'A Painful and Effortful Process'

"What we find is that the brain is acting very, very differently when a
person hoards," Tolin said. "When the person is trying to make a
decision about what to throw away, it seems that the person who is
hoarding, is processing this activity as if it is deeply punishing."

"The person who hoards is going through a very, very effortful search
of their memory to try to think of as many things as they can about
this item before they make the decision," Tolin added. "What this all
amounts to then is a painful and effortful process of decision-making,
that you and I might take for granted."

There is no cure for hoarding, and there is no medication to treat the
condition. Right now, cognitive behavioral therapy is the only way to
help hoarders make decisions and deal with their emotions.


Getting Help

In Beth Johnson's "Clutter Workshop" in Hartford, hoarders and
clutterers practice throwing out possessions they have grown attached
to. Johnson also takes her clients on nonshopping -- or nonacquiring --
trips to teach them not to buy things they don't need.

"I try to help them see the larger picture and how this item won't fit
into their life," said Johnson. "If you have a jam-packed house, if
you're adding to it on a weekly or daily basis, you're basically
defeating yourself."

Dr. Randy Frost, a professor of psychology at Smith College in
Massachussetts, focuses on helping hoarders make their homes
clutter-free.


"One of the things we know about hoarding is that the beliefs people
have about their possessions are so powerful, that it's very difficult
for them to get out of this behavior," said Frost, who is also author
of the upcoming book "Buried in Treasures." "If the person throws
something away and experiences distress, and does it again and again,
eventually, they won't have that extreme emotional response, throwing
something away."

Frost held a one-on-one session with Brennan to see if he could help
her. After a few hours, she was able to throw away receipts and a few
pieces of junk, but, as with most hoarders, there is still a long road
ahead.

One major motivator for Brennan is the possibility of losing her
fiancée if she doesn't clean up her home. When asked if she thought he
would really leave, Lorraine said, "I don't want to find out. I don't
want to end my relationship. I want to do better. I want to make it
work. I don't want to live like this anymore. I really don't."

Dr. David Tolin and Professor Randy Frost are co-authors of a self-help
book called "Buried in Treasures," to be published on February 5th.

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I do...many of my fellow friends who have shops overflowing with "good
stuff".

In my own case, I see it as a very slippery slope....one great thing
after another can follow you home until the doors to the shop won't
shut.

Sometimes...no many times...you just have to say "No".

Your thoughts?



I have this problem in only one respect: scraps.

I just cannot bring myself to throw away a beautiful piece of hardwood
even if it is a scrap, even if it is too tiny ever to be used for
anything.

My scrap bin overfloweth............

My scrap bin overfloweth............


You are not aloneth....the reason why I copied rec.woodworking on this
post is that many of my fellow woodworkers are hoarders in disguise.

Estate auctions of woodworkers always have tons of wood scraps neither
touched.

TMT


Gus wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I do...many of my fellow friends who have shops overflowing with "good
stuff".

In my own case, I see it as a very slippery slope....one great thing
after another can follow you home until the doors to the shop won't
shut.

Sometimes...no many times...you just have to say "No".

Your thoughts?



I have this problem in only one respect: scraps.

I just cannot bring myself to throw away a beautiful piece of hardwood
even if it is a scrap, even if it is too tiny ever to be used for
anything.

My scrap bin overfloweth............

I too hoard scraps, but every once in a while I tend to just sort them
out and what I haven't used or plan to use in the future, gets made
into kindling for our wood stove.
Gus wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I do...many of my fellow friends who have shops overflowing with "good
stuff".

In my own case, I see it as a very slippery slope....one great thing
after another can follow you home until the doors to the shop won't
shut.

Sometimes...no many times...you just have to say "No".

Your thoughts?



I have this problem in only one respect: scraps.

I just cannot bring myself to throw away a beautiful piece of hardwood
even if it is a scrap, even if it is too tiny ever to be used for
anything.

My scrap bin overfloweth............

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

I do...many of my fellow friends who have shops overflowing with "good
stuff".

snip

I received some great training in this regard.

As a matter of company policy, once a year had to go thru the files
and throw away anything over one year old with tax records and
engineering documents excepted.

After completing this task, had to sign off that you actually had done it.

Was told the lawyers were the reason for the policy.

Something to the effect that if it doesn't exist, it can't come back
to haunt you.

Had customers with similar policies.

Sort of sets the mood not to hoard things.

Also, a move every 5 years or so, gets rid of a lot of "stuff".

Lew

bdeditch wrote:
I too hoard scraps, but every once in a while I tend to just sort them
out and what I haven't used or plan to use in the future, gets made
into kindling for our wood stove.

And the fact you can actually part with above mentioned scraps proves
you're just an average pack rat...a "real" hoarder would have a panic
attack trying to sort through or throw away the scraps.

Then again...I've seen what appear to be packrats on TLC's Clean Sweep
who break down sobbing over letting go of some pillow they've had since
childhood. But they do it....eventually.

Gus wrote:

I just cannot bring myself to throw away a beautiful piece of hardwood
even if it is a scrap, even if it is too tiny ever to be used for
anything.


Don't say that. A friend used hardwood scraps as backing for his
handmade trophies. One of a kind stuff. You might offer yours to a
trophy maker if you aren't interested in getting into the business. Or
turn them into individual bookends. Or offer to some woodworking type
at a craft show.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:38:49 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:



Also, a move every 5 years or so, gets rid of a lot of "stuff".

Lew

If *you* don't throw it out, eventually your kids will.

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

I do...many of my fellow friends who
have shops overflowing with "good stuff".

Yeah, very common.

In my own case, I see it as a very slippery slope....
one great thing after another can follow you home
until the doors to the shop won't shut.

True, when I was building the house, I'd bring back quite
a bit of stuff from the dump. Some got used right away,
particularly discarded seedling trees etc, other stuff got
used later, particularly scrap wood and steel etc. Other
stuff never did get used like the VW beetle transaxel etc
that I considered turning into a dune buggy etc and never
did get around to. Tried to drag it out the front for the most
recent collection day but it was too heavy to move easily
so I took the easy way out and gave up till next time.

Sometimes...no many times...you just have to say "No".

Your thoughts?

I dont bother to get rid of most stuff that dies. I've still got
the hot water service that died, because the big white metal
square case is decent metal for making letterboxes etc.

Still got the washing machine I last used 35 years ago,
mainly for the decent motor and pump, should bin that
on the next collection day, its a bit hard to get out tho.

Still got the smaller upright freezer that is uneconomic
to repair, just because it seems such a waste of what
is a very decent little cabinet thing, might one day get
around to putting a beer brewing barrel into for easier
heater control in winter. I currently put a big wrap around
insulating foam pad around the barrel with a heater belt
with monster zip ties initially and once its bottled or when
I have two barrels brewing, I have a fan heater in the
smallest room in the house that doesnt get used as
a toilet since I have two of those.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2790669&page=1

Medical Mystery: Compulsive Hoarders
A Psychological Compulsion to Keep Everything,
Even When It Ruins Your Life

Most of us are nothing like these pathetic wretches,
we dont keep discarded packaging etc much.

By CECILE BOUCHARDEAU

Jan. 16, 2007- - We are all pack rats to some degree.

Some people arent.

We hoard, collect and buy more stuff than we have room to store.

I've got plenty of room.

But what if something in our brains made
us incapable of throwing things out?

There's no one that bad. If you threaten to kill them if they dont
throw it away, they wont refuse to part with it and die clutching it.

Janie Allocca and Lorraine Brennan both suffer from a psychological
disorder called compulsive hoarding -- an urge to hold on to even the
most mundane objects, even when they take over their lives.

Watch "Primetime: Medical Mysteries" Wednesday at 10 p.m. ET, and go
to ABCNEWS.com during the show to diagnose a real medical mystery.

Lorraine Brennan has been hoarding for nearly 20 years. She lives in
a two-story house in Massachusetts with her father, son and fiancée.
Most rooms in the house are cluttered, and some are even unusable.
The bedroom-office that she shares with her fiancée is overrun with
stuff they tried unsuccessfully to get rid of at a yard sale. Lorraine's
purse is bursting with junk mail and receipts.

Brennan's hoarding is not only ruining her life, but affecting her
entire family. Her son can't bring friends home from school. Brennan
and her fiancée have been engaged for eight years, but he hasn't
been able to commit to marrying her because of the clutter.

'There's No Place to Sit Down'

Many hoarders are also compulsive shoppers. Janie Allocca
has accumulated so much stuff that she uses her own house
as a storage facility and lives with her mother.

"I remember collecting, and keeping, and hoarding things since I can
remember," Allocca said. "And now I am just living around the piles
and piles I need to get rid of."

"I have so much stuff that my house is totally unlivable," she
continued. "There's no place to sit down. I can't get to the kitchen.
I can't have anyone over for tea even though I have everything for
tea. My collecting is taking up the space where I normally would
live."

There's a fine line between simple clutter and extreme hoarding. Most
hoarders, observers say, are physically incapable of throwing things
out. They can't live in, or use, rooms like the kitchen for their
intended use. They also experience extreme distress from their
condition.


The Brain of a Hoarder

Hoarding is currently considered a subset of obsessive compulsive
disorder, but that may soon change. New research is finding that
hoarding may be a unique disorder completely separate from OCD.

Dr. David Tolin, director of the Anxiety Disorders Center at the
Institute of Living in Hartford, Conn., has devoted his career to
studying what goes on inside the mind of a hoarder.

"At the moment, compulsive hoarding hasn't been fully defined by the
psychiatric and psychological communities," he said. "One of the
things that we wanted to do was to understand some of the brain
mechanisms behind compulsive hoarding."

Allocca is part of a study Tolin is conducting to see which parts of a
hoarder's brain become active when they are faced with making
decisions. She is hooked up to a brain-scan machine and asked to look
at pieces of her mail and decide whether she wants them to be thrown
out. She then must watch the mail get shredded.

At this point, two parts of a hoarder's brain become active. The
brain's orbitofrontal cortex is involved in decision making and causes
a hoarder to process this experience as a punishing one. At the same
time, the hippocampus of a hoarder actively searches for memories
about the object. The hoarder tries to remember the object: what it
is and why they saved it in the first place. By contrast, people
without hoarding problems just don't think about the object that much.


'A Painful and Effortful Process'

"What we find is that the brain is acting very, very differently when
a person hoards," Tolin said. "When the person is trying to make a
decision about what to throw away, it seems that the person who is
hoarding, is processing this activity as if it is deeply punishing."

"The person who hoards is going through a very, very effortful search
of their memory to try to think of as many things as they can about
this item before they make the decision," Tolin added. "What this all
amounts to then is a painful and effortful process of decision-making,
that you and I might take for granted."

There is no cure for hoarding, and there is no medication to treat the
condition. Right now, cognitive behavioral therapy is the only way to
help hoarders make decisions and deal with their emotions.


Getting Help

In Beth Johnson's "Clutter Workshop" in Hartford, hoarders and
clutterers practice throwing out possessions they have grown attached
to. Johnson also takes her clients on nonshopping -- or nonacquiring
-- trips to teach them not to buy things they don't need.

"I try to help them see the larger picture and how this item won't fit
into their life," said Johnson. "If you have a jam-packed house, if
you're adding to it on a weekly or daily basis, you're basically
defeating yourself."

Dr. Randy Frost, a professor of psychology at Smith College in
Massachussetts, focuses on helping hoarders make their homes
clutter-free.


"One of the things we know about hoarding is that the beliefs people
have about their possessions are so powerful, that it's very difficult
for them to get out of this behavior," said Frost, who is also author
of the upcoming book "Buried in Treasures." "If the person throws
something away and experiences distress, and does it again and again,
eventually, they won't have that extreme emotional response, throwing
something away."

Frost held a one-on-one session with Brennan to see if he could help
her. After a few hours, she was able to throw away receipts and a few
pieces of junk, but, as with most hoarders, there is still a long road
ahead.

One major motivator for Brennan is the possibility of losing her
fiancée if she doesn't clean up her home. When asked if she thought he
would really leave, Lorraine said, "I don't want to find out. I don't
want to end my relationship. I want to do better. I want to make it
work. I don't want to live like this anymore. I really don't."

Dr. David Tolin and Professor Randy Frost are co-authors of a
self-help book called "Buried in Treasures," to be published on
February 5th.

My hoarding problem is this. I have a lot of valuable stuff left over
from my ebay dealings. Like little T6061 aluminum plates and bars for
example. Or super nice strong stainless painted steel handles. Super
high quality. I may use a few "one day". In fact I will use some on my
trailer project. Or a few pulleys. But, despite being valuable, they
are not economical to try to sell them. Too little money, too much
hassle, and quite possibly they would not sell at all. But I cannot
throw them away in good conscience.

i

Or in my case the wife! she has a monthly clean up, and asks me make
coasters out of the scrap for the kids.
Eddie

"George Max" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:38:49 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:
Lew

If *you* don't throw it out, eventually your kids will.

LOL....I know of several companies that are now spending millions of
dollars to recreate a product they had but lost the recipe to because
they purged their files.

The retirees that they have had to rehire at expensive contractor rates
are very appreciative of the management's stupidity to enforce a "clean
desk" policy. They are very happy to participate in the "purge".

Of course those responsible for this stupidity received promotions for
their ideas.

TMT

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

I do...many of my fellow friends who have shops overflowing with "good
stuff".

snip

I received some great training in this regard.

As a matter of company policy, once a year had to go thru the files
and throw away anything over one year old with tax records and
engineering documents excepted.

After completing this task, had to sign off that you actually had done it.

Was told the lawyers were the reason for the policy.

Something to the effect that if it doesn't exist, it can't come back
to haunt you.

Had customers with similar policies.

Sort of sets the mood not to hoard things.

Also, a move every 5 years or so, gets rid of a lot of "stuff".

Lew

(snip)In my own case, I see it as a very slippery slope....one great thing
after another can follow you home until the doors to the shop won't
shut.

When the shop runneth over, it's simply time for a bigger shop! --dave


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

I do...many of my fellow friends who
have shops overflowing with "good stuff".

Yeah, very common.

In my own case, I see it as a very slippery slope....
one great thing after another can follow you home
until the doors to the shop won't shut.

True, when I was building the house, I'd bring back quite
a bit of stuff from the dump. Some got used right away,
particularly discarded seedling trees etc, other stuff got
used later, particularly scrap wood and steel etc. Other
stuff never did get used like the VW beetle transaxel etc
that I considered turning into a dune buggy etc and never
did get around to. Tried to drag it out the front for the most
recent collection day but it was too heavy to move easily
so I took the easy way out and gave up till next time.

Sometimes...no many times...you just have to say "No".

Your thoughts?

I dont bother to get rid of most stuff that dies. I've still got
the hot water service that died, because the big white metal
square case is decent metal for making letterboxes etc.

Still got the washing machine I last used 35 years ago,
mainly for the decent motor and pump, should bin that
on the next collection day, its a bit hard to get out tho.

Still got the smaller upright freezer that is uneconomic
to repair, just because it seems such a waste of what
is a very decent little cabinet thing, might one day get
around to putting a beer brewing barrel into for easier
heater control in winter. I currently put a big wrap around
insulating foam pad around the barrel with a heater belt
with monster zip ties initially and once its bottled or when
I have two barrels brewing, I have a fan heater in the
smallest room in the house that doesnt get used as
a toilet since I have two of those.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2790669&page=1

Medical Mystery: Compulsive Hoarders
A Psychological Compulsion to Keep Everything,
Even When It Ruins Your Life

Most of us are nothing like these pathetic wretches,
we dont keep discarded packaging etc much.

By CECILE BOUCHARDEAU

Jan. 16, 2007- - We are all pack rats to some degree.

Some people arent.

We hoard, collect and buy more stuff than we have room to store.

I've got plenty of room.

But what if something in our brains made
us incapable of throwing things out?

There's no one that bad. If you threaten to kill them if they dont
throw it away, they wont refuse to part with it and die clutching it.

Janie Allocca and Lorraine Brennan both suffer from a psychological
disorder called compulsive hoarding -- an urge to hold on to even the
most mundane objects, even when they take over their lives.

Watch "Primetime: Medical Mysteries" Wednesday at 10 p.m. ET, and go
to ABCNEWS.com during the show to diagnose a real medical mystery.

Lorraine Brennan has been hoarding for nearly 20 years. She lives in
a two-story house in Massachusetts with her father, son and fiancée.
Most rooms in the house are cluttered, and some are even unusable.
The bedroom-office that she shares with her fiancée is overrun with
stuff they tried unsuccessfully to get rid of at a yard sale. Lorraine's
purse is bursting with junk mail and receipts.

Brennan's hoarding is not only ruining her life, but affecting her
entire family. Her son can't bring friends home from school. Brennan
and her fiancée have been engaged for eight years, but he hasn't
been able to commit to marrying her because of the clutter.

'There's No Place to Sit Down'

Many hoarders are also compulsive shoppers. Janie Allocca
has accumulated so much stuff that she uses her own house
as a storage facility and lives with her mother.

"I remember collecting, and keeping, and hoarding things since I can
remember," Allocca said. "And now I am just living around the piles
and piles I need to get rid of."

"I have so much stuff that my house is totally unlivable," she
continued. "There's no place to sit down. I can't get to the kitchen.
I can't have anyone over for tea even though I have everything for
tea. My collecting is taking up the space where I normally would
live."

There's a fine line between simple clutter and extreme hoarding. Most
hoarders, observers say, are physically incapable of throwing things
out. They can't live in, or use, rooms like the kitchen for their
intended use. They also experience extreme distress from their
condition.


The Brain of a Hoarder

Hoarding is currently considered a subset of obsessive compulsive
disorder, but that may soon change. New research is finding that
hoarding may be a unique disorder completely separate from OCD.

Dr. David Tolin, director of the Anxiety Disorders Center at the
Institute of Living in Hartford, Conn., has devoted his career to
studying what goes on inside the mind of a hoarder.

"At the moment, compulsive hoarding hasn't been fully defined by the
psychiatric and psychological communities," he said. "One of the
things that we wanted to do was to understand some of the brain
mechanisms behind compulsive hoarding."

Allocca is part of a study Tolin is conducting to see which parts of a
hoarder's brain become active when they are faced with making
decisions. She is hooked up to a brain-scan machine and asked to look
at pieces of her mail and decide whether she wants them to be thrown
out. She then must watch the mail get shredded.

At this point, two parts of a hoarder's brain become active. The
brain's orbitofrontal cortex is involved in decision making and causes
a hoarder to process this experience as a punishing one. At the same
time, the hippocampus of a hoarder actively searches for memories
about the object. The hoarder tries to remember the object: what it
is and why they saved it in the first place. By contrast, people
without hoarding problems just don't think about the object that much.


'A Painful and Effortful Process'

"What we find is that the brain is acting very, very differently when
a person hoards," Tolin said. "When the person is trying to make a
decision about what to throw away, it seems that the person who is
hoarding, is processing this activity as if it is deeply punishing."

"The person who hoards is going through a very, very effortful search
of their memory to try to think of as many things as they can about
this item before they make the decision," Tolin added. "What this all
amounts to then is a painful and effortful process of decision-making,
that you and I might take for granted."

There is no cure for hoarding, and there is no medication to treat the
condition. Right now, cognitive behavioral therapy is the only way to
help hoarders make decisions and deal with their emotions.


Getting Help

In Beth Johnson's "Clutter Workshop" in Hartford, hoarders and
clutterers practice throwing out possessions they have grown attached
to. Johnson also takes her clients on nonshopping -- or nonacquiring
-- trips to teach them not to buy things they don't need.

"I try to help them see the larger picture and how this item won't fit
into their life," said Johnson. "If you have a jam-packed house, if
you're adding to it on a weekly or daily basis, you're basically
defeating yourself."

Dr. Randy Frost, a professor of psychology at Smith College in
Massachussetts, focuses on helping hoarders make their homes
clutter-free.


"One of the things we know about hoarding is that the beliefs people
have about their possessions are so powerful, that it's very difficult
for them to get out of this behavior," said Frost, who is also author
of the upcoming book "Buried in Treasures." "If the person throws
something away and experiences distress, and does it again and again,
eventually, they won't have that extreme emotional response, throwing
something away."

Frost held a one-on-one session with Brennan to see if he could help
her. After a few hours, she was able to throw away receipts and a few
pieces of junk, but, as with most hoarders, there is still a long road
ahead.

One major motivator for Brennan is the possibility of losing her
fiancée if she doesn't clean up her home. When asked if she thought he
would really leave, Lorraine said, "I don't want to find out. I don't
want to end my relationship. I want to do better. I want to make it
work. I don't want to live like this anymore. I really don't."

Dr. David Tolin and Professor Randy Frost are co-authors of a
self-help book called "Buried in Treasures," to be published on
February 5th.

George Max wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:38:49 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:



Also, a move every 5 years or so, gets rid of a lot of "stuff".

Lew

If *you* don't throw it out, eventually your kids will.

Not necessarily, I kept quite a bit of what my dad had kept
and would have kept a hell of a lot more of it if I had been
living in the same city instead of on the other side of the country.

In article ,
Ignoramus16071 wrote:
My hoarding problem is this. I have a lot of valuable stuff left over
from my ebay dealings. Like little T6061 aluminum plates and bars for
example. Or super nice strong stainless painted steel handles. Super
high quality. I may use a few "one day". In fact I will use some on my
trailer project. Or a few pulleys. But, despite being valuable, they
are not economical to try to sell them. Too little money, too much
hassle, and quite possibly they would not sell at all. But I cannot
throw them away in good conscience.

Are any of your aluminum plates 1/4" thick and big enough to cut 18"
triangles out of? I need some, and McMaster-Carr wants over $100 for
a piece of plate big enough for two. As I'd like six or eight, their
price is prohibitive. I might be interested in your pulleys, too,
depending on the size and configuration.

In other news, my late neighbor was apparently hoarding staircase
spindles--his survivors gave me about 500 this past weekend, about
430 of them the same size. They're overhead in the garage, now,
awaiting a project.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Astronomers have developed a definition of "planet" which excludes Pluto.
I'm developing a definition of "scientist" which excludes astronomers.

Count me in. And proud of it I might add.

I've always had an interest in electronics, even at a tender age.
Not having much money to spend to build stuff, I had to
cruise the neighborhood on trash day looking for discarded
TV's and radios that I could use for parts. A couple of friends
got into the act as well. This was a fun way to support a fun,
and ultimately very profitable hobby.

Fast forward 40+ years, and I still have the stash of tubes I
accumulated as a kid (and added to over the years). If I come
across something that might be useful for free or cheap, I'll
bag it and figure out where to put it later on. Picked up an
old TV chassis a couple of weeks ago. Its an Admiral that
was built in 1951. The owner wanted to keep the case to
use in a high school play. A couple of hours of tinkering,
and I got it working. Watched the football playoffs last
weekend on a 17" black and white TV. The games were
good, but watching them on an old TV I saved from the
landfill, then repaired myself was a blast. Kept the shop
nice and warm too!

I suppose anything can be taken to exteremes, but its a fine
line. One persons trash is most certainly anothers treasure.

Steve

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:27:22 -0000, Gary Heston wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus16071 wrote:
My hoarding problem is this. I have a lot of valuable stuff left over
from my ebay dealings. Like little T6061 aluminum plates and bars for
example. Or super nice strong stainless painted steel handles. Super
high quality. I may use a few "one day". In fact I will use some on my
trailer project. Or a few pulleys. But, despite being valuable, they
are not economical to try to sell them. Too little money, too much
hassle, and quite possibly they would not sell at all. But I cannot
throw them away in good conscience.

Are any of your aluminum plates 1/4" thick and big enough to cut 18"
triangles out of?

No, they are little square 5x5 plates, about 1/8" thick.

I do, however, have 3/8" about 8x14 plate and 1/2" 8x13 or so. Also
aluminum.

Also I have big Al heatsinks, with which I can part very cheaply.

I need some, and McMaster-Carr wants over $100 for
a piece of plate big enough for two. As I'd like six or eight, their
price is prohibitive. I might be interested in your pulleys, too,
depending on the size and configuration.

IIRC, I have one about 5" pulley with 1 3/8" shaft hole with keyway
and special tightening screws. I have more, but those I may need.



In other news, my late neighbor was apparently hoarding staircase
spindles--his survivors gave me about 500 this past weekend, about
430 of them the same size. They're overhead in the garage, now,
awaiting a project.

scary stuff.

i

In article ,
Ignoramus16071 wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:27:22 -0000, Gary Heston wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus16071 wrote:
[ ... ] Like little T6061 aluminum plates [ ... ]

Are any of your aluminum plates 1/4" thick and big enough to cut 18"
triangles out of?

No, they are little square 5x5 plates, about 1/8" thick.

I do, however, have 3/8" about 8x14 plate and 1/2" 8x13 or so. Also
aluminum.

Any way to weld them together? I don't mind going thicker, I need these
for decking in my antenna tower. I see a new rotator and thrust bearing
in my future.

Also I have big Al heatsinks, with which I can part very cheaply.

Regrettably, I don't need any at the moment.

I need some, and McMaster-Carr wants over $100 for
a piece of plate big enough for two. As I'd like six or eight, their
price is prohibitive. I might be interested in your pulleys, too,
depending on the size and configuration.

IIRC, I have one about 5" pulley with 1 3/8" shaft hole with keyway
and special tightening screws. I have more, but those I may need.

Price? You can email me; the address you see is valid.

In other news, my late neighbor was apparently hoarding staircase
spindles--his survivors gave me about 500 this past weekend, about
430 of them the same size. They're overhead in the garage, now,
awaiting a project.

scary stuff.

I have no idea what they were intended for. I'm checking with some of
my friends who do woodworking and home fixup projects who might be
interested in some of them. Stacking two of the 36" size (the 430 items)
would be a good height for a childrens' play gazebo or something of that
sort. Maybe build up sets of three for table legs, but they'd need to be
cut down a bit.

Othewise, they were headed for the curb and didn't cost me anything.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Astronomers have developed a definition of "planet" which excludes Pluto.
I'm developing a definition of "scientist" which excludes astronomers.

In article .com,
(known to some as Too_Many_Tools) scribed...

I do...many of my fellow friends who have shops overflowing with "good
stuff".

In my own case, I see it as a very slippery slope....one great thing
after another can follow you home until the doors to the shop won't
shut.

Sometimes...no many times...you just have to say "No".

Your thoughts?

It occurs in varying degrees. I've always seen scrounging of
electronic goodies as more of a 'flow-thru' than a one-way path to my
lab. Much stuff, of course, does end up on a one-way path to my
workbench, but it's stuff that I constantly use (tools,
soldering/desoldering gear, test gear, etc.)

The trick is learning what to shed, and when and how to shed it.
Ham radio swap meets and Ebay are good paths.

Keep the peace(es).


--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
http://www.bluefeathertech.com -- kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t calm
"Salvadore Dali's computer has surreal ports..."

On 16 Jan 2007 12:14:42 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

I do...many of my fellow friends who have shops overflowing with "good
stuff".

In my own case, I see it as a very slippery slope....one great thing
after another can follow you home until the doors to the shop won't
shut.

Sometimes...no many times...you just have to say "No".

Your thoughts?

TMT

I have seen this problem.

it is completely over come by Ockleshaw's workshop principle.
Ockleshaw being the possesor of the most amazing workshop.

"if it looks useful it isnt.turf it out.

if it looks *really* useful keep it for a month.
if you havent touched it in that month turf it out.

If something is actually useful but hasnt been used in a year turf it
out.

that way you will have a workshop full of only the gear that you
actually need"


....of course ockleshaw had a second shed :-)

Stealth Pilot

On 16 Jan 2007 12:14:42 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

I do...many of my fellow friends who have shops overflowing with "good
stuff".

In my own case, I see it as a very slippery slope....one great thing
after another can follow you home until the doors to the shop won't
shut.

Sometimes...no many times...you just have to say "No".

Your thoughts?

Not a problem in my case- every 3-6 months, I rent a two yard
dumpster, and anything that I haven't used since I rented the last one
either goes in there, or is given away or sold if it is something that
might be of value to someone.

Never understood the concept of hording- if I'm not going to use it, I
don't want it.

On 16 Jan 2007 17:36:00 -0800, "Seerialmom"
wrote:

That was quite the visual story alrighty. As I read it I could "see"
these two old guys in their brownstone. Wow. But the conclusion is
correct; telling a hoarder to "clean it up" or doing it for them when
they aren't there doesn't help. Thanks for sharing

*WOW*

Normally, I try to avoid pointing things like this out, but was it
really *necessary* to re-quote almost 1200 lines of text for this 4
line gem?

Prometheus wrote:
[snip]

Not a problem in my case- every 3-6 months, I rent a two yard
dumpster, and anything that I haven't used since I rented the last one
either goes in there, or is given away or sold if it is something that
might be of value to someone.

Never understood the concept of hording- if I'm not going to use it, I
don't want it.

I'm with you. I have a client who owns a dumpster business and he lets
me have a 6 yard dumpster for a couple of weeks a cpl of times a year.
I pay to have it emptied, but that's not too bad. I have two boxes that
used to contain kitchen sinks. One is for pieces of wood for the kid's
wiener roast parties, the other for fine pieces of other woods/odd
coloured solid surface. The rest goes to the dump. It is hard for me to
get my head around throwing a (once) $ 3000.00 300 dpi laser printer in
the dumpster.... but I have. Once in a blue moon, I'll boot my 128K
macintosh.. that one is staying. I did finally toss a 2-gig Fujitsu
hard drive, the size of a breadbox, just couldn't afford the
electricity bills to spool it up. It suffered from the odd bout of
'sticktion', we all know what that feels like.

Time for another 6 yard bucket.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
get my head around throwing a (once) $ 3000.00 300 dpi laser printer in
the dumpster.... but I have.

I feel the same way, but over the past year, I've been purging stuff that I
haven't looked at in years. It's tough putting it the garbage bin, but once
it's gone I soon forget about it. And, there's that feeling of satisfaction
from recovering floor space or shelving space from stuff that gets in the
way when I'm doing something else.

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:32:31 -0000, Gary Heston wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus16071 wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:27:22 -0000, Gary Heston wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus16071 wrote:
[ ... ] Like little T6061 aluminum plates [ ... ]

Are any of your aluminum plates 1/4" thick and big enough to cut 18"
triangles out of?

No, they are little square 5x5 plates, about 1/8" thick.

I do, however, have 3/8" about 8x14 plate and 1/2" 8x13 or so. Also
aluminum.

Any way to weld them together? I don't mind going thicker, I need these
for decking in my antenna tower. I see a new rotator and thrust bearing
in my future.

I doubt that.

IIRC, I have one about 5" pulley with 1 3/8" shaft hole with keyway
and special tightening screws. I have more, but those I may need.

Price? You can email me; the address you see is valid.

$10 will take it, shipping is $8.10 priority mail flat rate box.

i

What makes them valuable if it's not economical to try
to sell them (and they take up your storage space)?

Ignoramus16071 wrote:
My hoarding problem is this.... But, despite being valuable, they
are not economical to try to sell them. Too little money, too much
hassle, and quite possibly they would not sell at all.

i

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:33:28 -0600, M Berger wrote:
What makes them valuable if it's not economical to try
to sell them (and they take up your storage space)?

Because I think that they well might be useful later. A few things
that I have, are going into the trailer, such as steel handles,
electrical box, a big handle, etc.

Ignoramus16071 wrote:
My hoarding problem is this.... But, despite being valuable, they
are not economical to try to sell them. Too little money, too much
hassle, and quite possibly they would not sell at all.

i

Its interesting that when true hoarders collect things that are
actually valuable, they usually manage to make them worthless by the
time somebody else gets em.

There was guy down near Centralia Washington that collected cars- at
his peak, he had something like 2000 of em. He was sure every one was
"valuable" and would never sell. And as they sat, they rotted, tires
grew thru the hoods, paint and chrome peeled, engines rusted solid, and
when he finally died, and the family had to dispose of them, virtually
none of them were worth anything, even as parts.

I have seen this same thing happen with tool collectors- the old guys
are so sure that the stuff is worth a fortune, they routinely chase
away people who would actually reuse, restore, or understand their
tools, and want to pay reasonable prices for them- and so, in the end,
it all becomes scrap.

There was a famous junkyard in Richmond Virginia, where the old guy
saved Steam Railroad engines, and other huge machines. He never would
sell, convinced he was sitting on a gold mine. Well, when he died, the
relatives found he was- and it was the real estate. The land itself was
worth a lot, the scrap metal on it was just that- scrap metal. A
foundation was set up to save the oldest engines, and the relatives
gave them away for free- and if it had happened 20 or 30 years earlier,
there would have been a lot more to save- age, weather, and vandals had
taken a severe toll. While alive, he cagily quoted prices of a hundred
thousand dollars for a steam engine, and when he died, they were free
for the hauling. Assuming you could afford to haul something that was
80 feet long and weighed 20 tons.

Ignoramus18435 wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:33:28 -0600, M Berger wrote:
What makes them valuable if it's not economical to try
to sell them (and they take up your storage space)?

Because I think that they well might be useful later. A few things
that I have, are going into the trailer, such as steel handles,
electrical box, a big handle, etc.

Not to pick on you personally, but that is exactly the thinking that
can lie behind hoarding things excessively. And the thing about
it is, it is TRUE. You might very well MIGHT find a perfect use for
that item later on.

The problem is when the thinking ends there. For it to be the best
decision to hold on to something, the fact that it might be useful
is, by itself, not enough. There are positives of keeping it, but
there are negatives too, and the positives need to outweigh the
negatives. One possible negative is reducing the amount of space
you have for other things, making it harder to walk around, harder
to work, and harder to find the stuff that truly is useful among
the sea of stuff. Another negative is if you wind up paying extra
money to rent a storage space. In a lot of cases, you could re-buy
every single item in a rented storage space for less than the
$75/month rental fees multiplied by however many years you keep
it. It just doesn't make sense to store $1000 worth of furniture
in a $75/month storage space for 2 years. And of course, there
are other negatives of storing things, too, like having to look
at clutter, the extra time out of your life it takes to deal with
all of it, and so on.

- Logan

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:52:48 -0600, Logan Shaw wrote:
Ignoramus18435 wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:33:28 -0600, M Berger wrote:
What makes them valuable if it's not economical to try
to sell them (and they take up your storage space)?

Because I think that they well might be useful later. A few things
that I have, are going into the trailer, such as steel handles,
electrical box, a big handle, etc.

Not to pick on you personally, but that is exactly the thinking that
can lie behind hoarding things excessively. And the thing about
it is, it is TRUE. You might very well MIGHT find a perfect use for
that item later on.

The problem is when the thinking ends there. For it to be the best
decision to hold on to something, the fact that it might be useful
is, by itself, not enough. There are positives of keeping it, but
there are negatives too, and the positives need to outweigh the
negatives. One possible negative is reducing the amount of space
you have for other things, making it harder to walk around, harder
to work, and harder to find the stuff that truly is useful among
the sea of stuff. Another negative is if you wind up paying extra
money to rent a storage space. In a lot of cases, you could re-buy
every single item in a rented storage space for less than the
$75/month rental fees multiplied by however many years you keep
it. It just doesn't make sense to store $1000 worth of furniture
in a $75/month storage space for 2 years. And of course, there
are other negatives of storing things, too, like having to look
at clutter, the extra time out of your life it takes to deal with
all of it, and so on.

- Logan

I agree 100%.

i

Gary Heston wrote:
IIn other news, my late neighbor was apparently hoarding staircase
spindles--his survivors gave me about 500 this past weekend, about
430 of them the same size. They're overhead in the garage, now,
awaiting a project.


Don't you mean, they are awaiting your survivors to give them to
someone else? LOL

Although I shouldn't talk.. I got a great deal on some Oak 2 x 2 at
habitat.. 25 cents each for pieces
4 feet long.. too good to pass up, so of course I had to buy all of
them (about 40).. Haven't figured out a use
for them yet, although I convince myself that I will eventually LOL.

bf wrote:

Although I shouldn't talk.. I got a great deal on some Oak 2 x 2 at
habitat.. 25 cents each for pieces
4 feet long.. too good to pass up, so of course I had to buy all of
them (about 40).. Haven't figured out a use
for them yet, although I convince myself that I will eventually LOL.

A gallon of glue, some clamps, some time, and you have enough material
for a small table for a bedroom, hallway, etc.

Of course, now you are going to need a table lamp for itG.

Lew

Oh lets not go there. I am get scared walking into the Habitat shops.
Thank God I don't have a bigger Truck or I would buy them out of wood
at times.
bf wrote:
Gary Heston wrote:
IIn other news, my late neighbor was apparently hoarding staircase
spindles--his survivors gave me about 500 this past weekend, about
430 of them the same size. They're overhead in the garage, now,
awaiting a project.


Don't you mean, they are awaiting your survivors to give them to
someone else? LOL

Although I shouldn't talk.. I got a great deal on some Oak 2 x 2 at
habitat.. 25 cents each for pieces
4 feet long.. too good to pass up, so of course I had to buy all of
them (about 40).. Haven't figured out a use
for them yet, although I convince myself that I will eventually LOL.

In article ,
Ignoramus18435 wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:32:31 -0000, Gary Heston wrote:
In article ,
[ ... ]
IIRC, I have one about 5" pulley with 1 3/8" shaft hole with keyway
and special tightening screws. I have more, but those I may need.

Price? You can email me; the address you see is valid.

$10 will take it, shipping is $8.10 priority mail flat rate box.

Sounds good. Would you prefer a check or money order? Email an address
to send payment to and I'll get it on the way.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Astronomers have developed a definition of "planet" which excludes Pluto.
I'm developing a definition of "scientist" which excludes astronomers.

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 00:55:10 -0000, Gary Heston wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus18435 wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:32:31 -0000, Gary Heston wrote:
In article ,
[ ... ]
IIRC, I have one about 5" pulley with 1 3/8" shaft hole with keyway
and special tightening screws. I have more, but those I may need.

Price? You can email me; the address you see is valid.

$10 will take it, shipping is $8.10 priority mail flat rate box.

Sounds good. Would you prefer a check or money order? Email an address
to send payment to and I'll get it on the way.

Let me take a picture and measurements of it first, I do not want you
to be disappointed.

i

Posted and emailed.

i

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 00:55:10 -0000, Gary Heston wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus18435 wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:32:31 -0000, Gary Heston wrote:
In article ,
[ ... ]
IIRC, I have one about 5" pulley with 1 3/8" shaft hole with keyway
and special tightening screws. I have more, but those I may need.

Price? You can email me; the address you see is valid.

$10 will take it, shipping is $8.10 priority mail flat rate box.

Sounds good. Would you prefer a check or money order? Email an address
to send payment to and I'll get it on the way.

Picture of the pulley is he

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/pulley.jpg

It has two grooves for V belts, 1 3/8" hole with keyway, and special
threaded holes that are called TAPER LOCK. The holes are 3/8" NC
threaded, I think, I found some bolt that looks like 3/8" and it fit
the threads. It came off a 7.5 HP three phase motor from which I cut off
its shaft a while ago. It has some rust on it, but not much.

i

Picture of the pulley is he

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/pulley.jpg

It has two grooves for V belts, 1 3/8" hole with keyway, and special
threaded holes that are called TAPER LOCK. The holes are 3/8" NC
threaded, I think, I found some bolt that looks like 3/8" and it fit
the threads. It came off a 7.5 HP three phase motor from which I cut off
its shaft a while ago. It has some rust on it, but not much.

i

I think I could organize my tools purchased in a compulsive hording
craze, but my compulsive eating, computer, and TV habit is getting in
the way.

Lew Hodgett wrote:
bf wrote:

Although I shouldn't talk.. I got a great deal on some Oak 2 x 2 at
habitat.. 25 cents each for pieces
4 feet long.. too good to pass up, so of course I had to buy all of
them (about 40).. Haven't figured out a use
for them yet, although I convince myself that I will eventually LOL.

A gallon of glue, some clamps, some time, and you have enough material
for a small table for a bedroom, hallway, etc.

Of course, now you are going to need a table lamp for itG.

Lew

That's a pretty good idea.. I may do that when I get some time..LOL.
Too big of a backload of projects now. I turned down a pretty good deal
on about 150 board feet
of Mahagony.. because I know it would sit in the shop for a few years
before I figured out what to make with it.
I guess I'm on the road to recovery.

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:19:34 -0600, Ignoramus18435
wrote:


I agree 100%.

So do I. In fact, I've decided to print this entire thread and store
it just in case I develop a hoarding problem later in life.



-Leuf