Ok, let me state at the outset that I like his shows. I'm sure many of
you also appreciate him. I don't want what I'm about to say to be
thought of as a slam of him in any way, and I am not wanting to start an
argument of any sort!

Here goes: Last night, as I was watching him interview Krenov "it"
finally struck me. His delivery is stilted, like when a non-actor is
required to stand in front of a camera to recite some lines of dialog.
He seems to always be reciting, from memory, his lines, with no true
feelings imparted to the dialog. Norm, on the other hand, always seems
totally natural when speaking to the camera.

I've been able to tune in to his shows for only the past few months. I
think he does a credible job of presenting the projects that have been
selected for broadcast. Certainly none of that "and a few brads to hold
it until the glue dries" mentality!

Do any of you also find David's delivery "forced" and unnatural?

I will continue to search the DIY channel listings for his shows and
tune in to any that I've not seen before.

Dave

I recently started watching him also. Completely different style than
Nahmmy. I like the projects that I have seen him build thus far. Nahm only
makes antique reproductions, Mark seems to make more modern pieces.

I will agree with you that Marks style on camera is a little "rough", but I
think he has a LOT to offer. I will DEFINITELY continue to watch Mark and I
also look forward to Nahmmy's next season.




"David" wrote in message
...
Ok, let me state at the outset that I like his shows. I'm sure many of
you also appreciate him. I don't want what I'm about to say to be thought
of as a slam of him in any way, and I am not wanting to start an argument
of any sort!

Here goes: Last night, as I was watching him interview Krenov "it"
finally struck me. His delivery is stilted, like when a non-actor is
required to stand in front of a camera to recite some lines of dialog. He
seems to always be reciting, from memory, his lines, with no true feelings
imparted to the dialog. Norm, on the other hand, always seems totally
natural when speaking to the camera.

I've been able to tune in to his shows for only the past few months. I
think he does a credible job of presenting the projects that have been
selected for broadcast. Certainly none of that "and a few brads to hold
it until the glue dries" mentality!

Do any of you also find David's delivery "forced" and unnatural?

I will continue to search the DIY channel listings for his shows and tune
in to any that I've not seen before.

Dave

In article ,
David wrote:


Do any of you also find David's delivery "forced" and unnatural?


Dave


Yes, I do, too. But I talked to him at a show last year and found him to
be a nice, normal person. He said that the producers have some strong
opinions about what he says and he often finds himself saying things in
a way he would never do if he could choose. That especially applies to
many of the puns and jokes that he uses. He said that some of that stuff
is just plain embarrassing.

But I sure like his show. His work is beautiful.

PDX David

I think what you're describing may be due to
having a director trying to get what he needs
for a half hour show. Mr. Marks in person
covering a subject in front of an audience of
woodworkers is pretty relaxed and comfortable.
Not as mellow as Michael Fortune, not as
intense as Mark Adams but not as marginally
terrified as Yeung Chan.

It's the medium and the format that may be
the cause. It's hard to stay relaxed and
informingly informal under a bunch of hot
lights with a boom microphone waving just
above your head, eight or ten people around
you just off camera doing all kinds of things
- including holding a stop watch and a
clipboard.

Some people are more comfortable in a
defined and controlled environment and
others are better a free form, free for
all "we'll start here but after that ..."
situation.

If you want to watch one of the best
on camera or off, get any Frank Klausz
video and watch it. But then much of
it is probably by rote - he went through
the traditional european apprenticeship
and has had the information stuffed
into his genetics makeup.

charlie b

Your discussion with him bears out my perception then; he IS awkward
with the dialog. Too bad he isn't given full control over the content.
Now that I know he is on 204 (DIY), I check the schedule each day in
order not to miss his show; his work is an inspiration. I especially
liked the mirror frame episode last week. I chuckle when he runs a
piece over his aircraft carrier deck...ahem...jointer, or uses his other
out-of-the-average-woodworker's price range and/or space limitations
equipment. Drooling is required when watching his show. g

Dave

Jane & David wrote:

In article ,
David wrote:



Do any of you also find David's delivery "forced" and unnatural?



Dave



Yes, I do, too. But I talked to him at a show last year and found him to
be a nice, normal person. He said that the producers have some strong
opinions about what he says and he often finds himself saying things in
a way he would never do if he could choose. That especially applies to
many of the puns and jokes that he uses. He said that some of that stuff
is just plain embarrassing.

But I sure like his show. His work is beautiful.

PDX David

Good points, Charlie. I sure wouldn't be relaxed under those
conditions; in fact I'd probably freeze like Garth did when their show
went mainstream in Wayne's World. g

BTW, David's interview with Krenov was the highlight of his shows as far
as I'm concerned. The guy's a living legend, and no wonder. David
seemed pleasantly relieved that he correctly guessed the wood species
that Krenov (or maybe it was Art Carpenter?) quizzed him about.


Dave

charlie b wrote:

I think what you're describing may be due to
having a director trying to get what he needs
for a half hour show. Mr. Marks in person
covering a subject in front of an audience of
woodworkers is pretty relaxed and comfortable.
Not as mellow as Michael Fortune, not as
intense as Mark Adams but not as marginally
terrified as Yeung Chan.

It's the medium and the format that may be
the cause. It's hard to stay relaxed and
informingly informal under a bunch of hot
lights with a boom microphone waving just
above your head, eight or ten people around
you just off camera doing all kinds of things
- including holding a stop watch and a
clipboard.

Some people are more comfortable in a
defined and controlled environment and
others are better a free form, free for
all "we'll start here but after that ..."
situation.

If you want to watch one of the best
on camera or off, get any Frank Klausz
video and watch it. But then much of
it is probably by rote - he went through
the traditional european apprenticeship
and has had the information stuffed
into his genetics makeup.

charlie b

Do any of you also find David's delivery "forced" and unnatural?

TV is a very difficult medium to look good on, particularly when you
are dealling with a show that has to fit into half an hour with three
commercial breaks with trailers and recaps at each break.

The main problem seems to be when he does a voice over, he looks pretty
stiff except when he is doing some woodworking.

Someone posted saying that he blames the jokes on the producers, sounds
to me as if they are trying to get him to copy Norm's act. Its the
director's job to make the actor feel comfortable and give a natural
performance, it sounds to me as if the director is incompetent.

From a purely technical point of view Norm tends to get a bit
breathless at times.

Norm does not attempt to do work in a particular style, Marks does.
This has advantages and disadvantages. There is almost nothing that
Marks does that I could use in my current house which is a 1900 dutch
colonial. Almost everything Norm does would either work as is or could
be adapted for some part of the house.

The other constraint is the SWMBO factor, the Marks stuff does not
appeal to her, Norm stuff is much more likely to.

The original idea behind Norm's show was to get people doing woodwork,
Marks might have that idea but I don't think the producers do. Norm
deliberately uses a range of materials over each season which is very
useful if you are thinking about doing the maple sideboard in teak and
can watch the program where he is making stuff in teak and find out
that it wrecks your jointer knives etc. Marks on the other hand uses a
much more limited range of mostly exotic, mostly solid woods and rarely
uses any finish other than tung oil.

Of course Norm having by now made everything there is to make out of
plywood, he has gone for bigger projects of late and this season did a
lot of antique reproductions where the wood alone would cost several
thousand dollars. I was somewhat surprised that he made the mahoghany
dining table out of solid wood, a veneer top would be much more
economical and add considerably to the piece. Of course this is just
about the one woodworking skill that Norm seems to avoid while Marks
thinks nothing of getting out his vaccum bag and cauls.

David wrote in
:

Your discussion with him bears out my perception then; he IS awkward
with the dialog. Too bad he isn't given full control over the
content.
Now that I know he is on 204 (DIY), I check the schedule each day in
order not to miss his show; his work is an inspiration. I especially
liked the mirror frame episode last week. I chuckle when he runs a
piece over his aircraft carrier deck...ahem...jointer, or uses his
other out-of-the-average-woodworker's price range and/or space
limitations equipment. Drooling is required when watching his show.
g

Dave


Two notes:

TiVo gives you a lot more control of your television viewing. And you can
fast forward through the 'Ed the Plumber' promos, which are MUCH more
embarrassing than DJM pun recitations... Check with your cable or sat
provider for a combined, better integrated, better priced deal.

DJM did a show or two where he gave a 'shop tour' of the tools and their
roles. He said that most of those tools were acquired used, when the right
opportunity came along, and rebuilt or tuned up. (OK, so not the big OneWay
lathe.) I do envy him that much shop space. SWMBO is beginning to consider
that we need much bigger studio facilities...

Patriarch

"Phillip Hallam-Baker" wrote in
oups.com:

snip
Of course Norm having by now made everything there is to make out of
plywood, he has gone for bigger projects of late and this season did a
lot of antique reproductions where the wood alone would cost several
thousand dollars.

It was good to see Norm show some more range this year. I suspect that
there was quite a bit held back, to keep to the 'New Yankee' image, both
budget and presumed viewer skill set. But after these decades, we've most
of us learned quite a bit, Norm included.

It was nice that he got to strut a little bit.

Patriarch

"Phillip Hallam-Baker" wrote:

I was somewhat surprised that he made the mahoghany
dining table out of solid wood, a veneer top would be much more
economical and add considerably to the piece. Of course this is just
about the one woodworking skill that Norm seems to avoid while Marks
thinks nothing of getting out his vaccum bag and cauls.


You mention 'vacuum bag', can those storage bags be used for this?

I noticed that also - but I also noticed that when he works his actions are
slow and deliberate. Almost to the point of annoying.
(Look at a show where they both rip a piece of wood on the table saw)
Not that Nahms arent but they both work in very different manners. Ive
tried to apply that to my work and I can tell that the quality of my work
has improved


"David" wrote in message
...
Ok, let me state at the outset that I like his shows. I'm sure many of
you also appreciate him. I don't want what I'm about to say to be thought
of as a slam of him in any way, and I am not wanting to start an argument
of any sort!

Here goes: Last night, as I was watching him interview Krenov "it"
finally struck me. His delivery is stilted, like when a non-actor is
required to stand in front of a camera to recite some lines of dialog. He
seems to always be reciting, from memory, his lines, with no true feelings
imparted to the dialog. Norm, on the other hand, always seems totally
natural when speaking to the camera.

I've been able to tune in to his shows for only the past few months. I
think he does a credible job of presenting the projects that have been
selected for broadcast. Certainly none of that "and a few brads to hold
it until the glue dries" mentality!

Do any of you also find David's delivery "forced" and unnatural?

I will continue to search the DIY channel listings for his shows and tune
in to any that I've not seen before.

Dave

"David" wrote in message

His delivery is stilted, like when a non-actor is
required to stand in front of a camera to recite some lines of dialog.

Don't this as derogatory, but this has been brought up a few times in the
past and, merely from an observational viewpoint, I've always thought it
strange that many folks seem to be uncomfortable unless they have polished,
actor delivered lines on TV.

I am beginning to wonder if this is possibly the natural reaction of a
generation raised on TV from a young age. Could be that because we didn't
own one until I was twelve, my perceptions in this regard aren't as finely
tuned as yours, and my expectations regarding polished delivery much lower.

To me, what you see as "stilted" is not surprising (and actually more "real"
and believable then the slick talking, pretty boy, DIY carpenters with
nothing but their buns to recommend them for the job) since DJM is so
obviously not an actor, and apparently delivering lines exactly as he is
required to do.

Again, just an off-the-cuff observation on a issue that has been brought up
a few times before.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

You mention 'vacuum bag', can those storage bags be used for this?

Good question, I haven't tried doing it either way or arything like it.

The bag is probably flexible enough and strong enough to get good
clamping pressure with cauls.

I am not so sure about using a domestic vac to create and maintain the
pressure. You can't solve the problem of air leaking back into the bag
by having a domestic vaccum pumping continuously, well you could but I
don't think the motor would last very long.

I did a google but couldn't see any comments.

On Sat, 21 May 2005 18:53:58 -0700, the inscrutable Jane & David
spake:

In article ,
David wrote:
Do any of you also find David's delivery "forced" and unnatural?

Yes, I do, too. But I talked to him at a show last year and found him to
be a nice, normal person. He said that the producers have some strong
opinions about what he says and he often finds himself saying things in
a way he would never do if he could choose. That especially applies to
many of the puns and jokes that he uses. He said that some of that stuff
is just plain embarrassing.

Isn't it, though? I've seen him adlib and his speech is not canned at
all then. He just reacts to the restrictions placed on him by the
directors, producers, and maybe a goombah cameraman. They probably
made him revert to long sleeves to cover his large forearm tattoos.


But I sure like his show. His work is beautiful.

Yes, I love the show (the only thing worth watching on DIY) and his
work. I'd like to meet the man.

-
The only reason I would take up exercising is || http://diversify.com
so that I could hear heavy breathing again. || Programmed Websites

"David" wrote in message
...

Do any of you also find David's delivery "forced" and unnatural?

I reallly think that he is talented and really think that he takes a hit or
two before shooting the show.

It's quite obviously scripted and not always correctly. He sticks with the
script regardless. On two occasions, I have heard him refer to a to a
Stanley #80 as a block plane. It was obviously in the script that way as he
has demonstrated on other occasions that he knows the difference.

"David" wrote in message
...
Ok, let me state at the outset that I like his shows. I'm sure many of
you also appreciate him. I don't want what I'm about to say to be
thought of as a slam of him in any way, and I am not wanting to start an
argument of any sort!

Here goes: Last night, as I was watching him interview Krenov "it"
finally struck me. His delivery is stilted, like when a non-actor is
required to stand in front of a camera to recite some lines of dialog.
He seems to always be reciting, from memory, his lines, with no true
feelings imparted to the dialog. Norm, on the other hand, always seems
totally natural when speaking to the camera.

I've been able to tune in to his shows for only the past few months. I
think he does a credible job of presenting the projects that have been
selected for broadcast. Certainly none of that "and a few brads to hold
it until the glue dries" mentality!

Do any of you also find David's delivery "forced" and unnatural?

I will continue to search the DIY channel listings for his shows and
tune in to any that I've not seen before.

Dave

Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
You mention 'vacuum bag', can those storage bags be used for this?


Good question, I haven't tried doing it either way or arything like it.

The bag is probably flexible enough and strong enough to get good
clamping pressure with cauls.

I am not so sure about using a domestic vac to create and maintain the
pressure. You can't solve the problem of air leaking back into the bag
by having a domestic vaccum pumping continuously, well you could but I
don't think the motor would last very long.

I did a google but couldn't see any comments.


Here's DJMs comments on the vacuum press.

http://www.djmarks.com/stories/askda...vise_47731.asp

http://www.djmarks.com/stories/faq/h...show_46702.asp


--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

I am beginning to wonder if this is possibly the natural reaction of a

generation raised on TV from a young age. Could be that because we
didn't
own one until I was twelve, my perceptions in this regard aren't as
finely
tuned as yours, and my expectations regarding polished delivery much
lower.

I don't think its just the technology, very few US politicians would
get beyond
local councilor level in the UK. With very rare exceptions they just
don't
have public speaking skils.

Much was made of Georgeous George Galloway's appearance in the Senate,
but the performance that got rave reviews from most quarters was
technically
sub-par Galloway won because he had weak opposition who treated him
with
too obvious contempt. If you look at his UK performances of years past
there
have been several occasions where a skilled interviewer made him self
destruct.

Appearing natural and relaxed on camera as Reagan or Clinton could do
is
amazingly difficult, it is even harder if you are having to deal with
the
unexpected.

I don't often do TV work, its mostly press but even that is pretty
exhausting. When I do interviews there is almost always something I
feel I should have done better afterwards. And in press you always have
to work through the reporter who can sometimes print the exact opposite
of what you said - or in some cases the editor will stick a headline on
the article that is completely wrong.

Marks does look stilted but that is not his problem, putting the actors
at ease is the Director's job. Getting the right director/producer
combination is the agent's job. At this point Marks has done 8 series
and has an independent reputation, what he needs to do is take more
control over the process. DIYTV and HGTV are both running continuously
and have an almost unlimited appetite for material. Marks should have
an agent who is making sure that the format of the show best showcases
Marks.

To me, what you see as "stilted" is not surprising (and actually more
"real"
and believable then the slick talking, pretty boy, DIY carpenters with

nothing but their buns to recommend them for the job) since DJM is so
obviously not an actor, and apparently delivering lines exactly as he
is
required to do.

The DIY network have a really irritating guy who my wife describes as
'too cocky by half'. His performance is really polished but his
craftmanship isn't. This wouldn't be too bad if he presented himself as
an amateur having a go but he presents himself as an expert. The 'fix
it up' pair that used to come on after Norm when he was on HGTV don't
look too expert either but thats ok because the premise of the show is
that they are DIY'ers having a go.

Early on in the New Yankee Workshop Norm is doing the same sort of
thing at the very start the premise was he is a carpenter doing cabinet
work so if you have a little knowledge you can do like he does. That
started to wear thin after a few series and twenty years on it would be
ridiculous. But even so Norm does not talk down to his audience,
neither for that matter does Marks. The pretty boys with nice bums for
the benefit of the female audience frequently appear to be patronising.

The main difference between the Marks/Norm shows and the 'B-team' shows
as far as I can see is that Norm and Marks both spend time making jigs
to do the work properly and on the B-team shows the rarely use anything
more complex than a stop block.

In article , Swingman
wrote:

....

DIY carpenters with
nothing but their buns to recommend them for the job

Is this another Robin Hartl thread? :-)

She's highly qualified in that regard.

Kevin

"David" wrote in message
...

Here goes: Last night, as I was watching him interview Krenov "it"
finally struck me. His delivery is stilted, like when a non-actor is
required to stand in front of a camera to recite some lines of dialog.
He seems to always be reciting, from memory, his lines, with no true
feelings imparted to the dialog. Norm, on the other hand, always seems
totally natural when speaking to the camera.

When you want to see polished acting, go to a movie. When you want to see
superb woodworking, tune on David J Marks.
Jim

In article ,
"Swingman" wrote:

To me, what you see as "stilted" is not surprising (and actually more "real"
and believable then the slick talking, pretty boy, DIY carpenters with
nothing but their buns to recommend them for the job) since DJM is so
obviously not an actor, and apparently delivering lines exactly as he is
required to do.

There is a lot in what you are saying. A friend of mine brought over a
tape of a Who concert (shot way back when Moonie was still in it) which
was obviously shot by something like a local cable company. The audio
didn't have a whole lot of dynamic range, but it was all natural. Two
camera positions. The lighting was plain awful.
But you know what? It was real. There was no production. Naked Who.
The bootleg is the best of a large Who collection my buddy owns, and it
would never have been approved for release by the studio weasels because
it is too real. Warts and all. Just fabulous.
Sometimes the polish completly hides the artwork.

"Phillip Hallam-Baker" wrote:

You mention 'vacuum bag', can those storage bags be used for this?

Good question, I haven't tried doing it either way or arything like
it.

The bag is probably flexible enough and strong enough to get good
clamping pressure with cauls.

I am not so sure about using a domestic vac to create and maintain the
pressure. You can't solve the problem of air leaking back into the bag
by having a domestic vaccum pumping continuously, well you could but I
don't think the motor would last very long.

SWMBO's got some stuff stored in a few of them and the pressure *seems*
to hold just with the valve closure.

I agree that a vacuum cleaner wouldn't last long pulling continuous
vacuum.


I did a google but couldn't see any comments.

SWMBO's got some stuff stored in a few of them and the pressure
*seems*
to hold just with the valve closure.

Yes but does SWMBO use the amount of pressure required to crush veneer
flat onto a substrate?

OK yes of course she does, and when she packs clothes in a suitcase she
achieves a density only slightly short of neutron star level. But
whether the bag holds at the at level for long enough to glue to dry I
don't know.

Someone must have tried using a space bag, but I couldn't find an
example when I googled.

As far as cost goes though, you could buy a $600 commercial veneer bag
set up, make the dining table top and still save a bundle over what the
solid mahoghany top would cost you... Even more so if you flogged the
equipment on ebay afterwards.

Ebay creates an interesting new tool dynamic. The cost of tool rental
for a day is exhorbitant, sometimes a quarter of the cost of a tool,
but if you only need it once it is cheaper. Ebay means that you can
justify the cost of the tool with SWMBO as being cheaper than renting
since you could in theory sell it again on Ebay, or at least you can in
theory in practice SWMBO will point out eventually that you never do
sell the tool afterwards and moreover one does not have a degree in
rocket science from MIT to work that out.

"Robatoy" wrote in message

But you know what? It was real. There was no production. Naked Who.
The bootleg is the best of a large Who collection my buddy owns, and it
would never have been approved for release by the studio weasels because
it is too real. Warts and all. Just fabulous.
Sometimes the polish completly hides the artwork.

You're absolutely correct ... like a beauty mark purposely applied to a
woman's face back in the old days, the pursuit, and attainment, of
perfection usually rips the heart and soul from any endeavor. Not to mention
that I would rather hear a bad recording of a good song, than a good
recording of a bad song.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

On Sun, 22 May 2005 06:05:14 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Yes, I love the show (the only thing worth watching on DIY) and his
work. I'd like to meet the man.

All it takes is money: he gives classes up at his own shop and also
down in Anaheim at William Ng's school.

Lee

Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
You mention 'vacuum bag', can those storage bags be used for this?


Good question, I haven't tried doing it either way or arything like it.

The bag is probably flexible enough and strong enough to get good
clamping pressure with cauls.

I am not so sure about using a domestic vac to create and maintain the
pressure. You can't solve the problem of air leaking back into the bag
by having a domestic vaccum pumping continuously, well you could but I
don't think the motor would last very long.

I did a google but couldn't see any comments.


I just found plans for a vacuum veneering setup. Looks like something
I'll try in my shop (once I get it all built, that is).
http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/whybuild.htm

According to his site, 30mil is the best vinyl, and you don't want to
run the vacuum pump continuously, but to cycle it using a vacuum
pressure controller since most vacuum pumps have a zero pressure restart
ability (they're unable to restart while under vacuum). The author
claims that 21-23" of mercury is about what is needed for veneering, and
the pump should cycle back on between 17 and 19" of mercury.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

"Phillip Hallam-Baker" wrote:

SWMBO's got some stuff stored in a few of them and the pressure
*seems*
to hold just with the valve closure.

Yes but does SWMBO use the amount of pressure required to crush veneer
flat onto a substrate?

OK yes of course she does, and when she packs clothes in a suitcase
she achieves a density only slightly short of neutron star level.


I'm always worried about the potential lawsuits if the catches give way
while the marijuana dog is sniffing it!

But
whether the bag holds at the at level for long enough to glue to dry I
don't know.

I don't either. I'm tempted to snag one of the bags and give it a try.


Someone must have tried using a space bag, but I couldn't find an
example when I googled.

Same here.


As far as cost goes though, you could buy a $600 commercial veneer bag
set up, make the dining table top and still save a bundle over what
the solid mahoghany top would cost you... Even more so if you flogged
the equipment on ebay afterwards.

Ebay creates an interesting new tool dynamic. The cost of tool rental
for a day is exhorbitant, sometimes a quarter of the cost of a tool,
but if you only need it once it is cheaper. Ebay means that you can
justify the cost of the tool with SWMBO as being cheaper than renting
since you could in theory sell it again on Ebay, or at least you can
in theory in practice SWMBO will point out eventually that you never
do sell the tool afterwards and moreover one does not have a degree in
rocket science from MIT to work that out.

I've tried that angle. Doesn't work. Response precisely as you stated
"but you never do ...". Usually followed by reciting a list of the stuff
that I "could always sell later on ebay ..." and is still on the
premises.

Odinn wrote:

I just found plans for a vacuum veneering setup. Looks like something
I'll try in my shop (once I get it all built, that is).
http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/whybuild.htm

According to his site, 30mil is the best vinyl, and you don't want to
run the vacuum pump continuously, but to cycle it using a vacuum
pressure controller since most vacuum pumps have a zero pressure restart
ability (they're unable to restart while under vacuum). The author
claims that 21-23" of mercury is about what is needed for veneering, and
the pump should cycle back on between 17 and 19" of mercury.



Good site.
Just checked, and the Space Bags are only 2.2mil. Oh well ...

In article , wrote:
On Sun, 22 May 2005 07:21:55 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:


To me, what you see as "stilted" is not surprising (and actually more "real"
and believable then the slick talking, pretty boy, DIY carpenters with
nothing but their buns to recommend them for the job)

So you're saying Norm has a better ass?

DON'T go there.

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Regards,
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Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Lobby Dosser wrote in news:5qYje.7271
$6d.2972@trnddc02:


You mention 'vacuum bag', can those storage bags be used for this?

The local purveyor of all things woodworking had a starter kit for vacuum
veneering on the display table last week. A skateboard kit. Maybe $50,
including a hand powered pump. Seemed like an inexpensive starter kit.

Patriarch

Lee DeRaud wrote in
:

On Sun, 22 May 2005 06:05:14 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Yes, I love the show (the only thing worth watching on DIY) and his
work. I'd like to meet the man.

All it takes is money: he gives classes up at his own shop and also
down in Anaheim at William Ng's school.


We're talking with Mr. Frugality here, Corporate Spokesmodel for Harbor
Freight. ;-)

That, and he's a bit reluctant to return to LoCal for some mysterious
reasons, after escaping to Oregon.

All signs of apparent sanity, to me.

Patriarch

In article N%4ke.12644$6d.6261@trnddc04,
Lobby Dosser wrote:

I agree that a vacuum cleaner wouldn't last long pulling continuous
vacuum.

A vacuum like a Fein would do a great job. It has by-pass cooling for
the motor and does not depend on vacuum flow for cooling.

But for very little money, one can buy venturi based vacuum generators
which will do an excellent job.

On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:06:54 -0500, Patriarch
wrote:

Lee DeRaud wrote in
:

On Sun, 22 May 2005 06:05:14 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Yes, I love the show (the only thing worth watching on DIY) and his
work. I'd like to meet the man.

All it takes is money: he gives classes up at his own shop and also
down in Anaheim at William Ng's school.


We're talking with Mr. Frugality here, Corporate Spokesmodel for Harbor
Freight. ;-)

That, and he's a bit reluctant to return to LoCal for some mysterious
reasons, after escaping to Oregon.

All signs of apparent sanity, to me.

shrug I don't suffer from insanity...in fact, I rather enjoy it.

Lee

Patriarch wrote:

Lobby Dosser wrote in
news:5qYje.7271 $6d.2972@trnddc02:


You mention 'vacuum bag', can those storage bags be used for this?

The local purveyor of all things woodworking had a starter kit for
vacuum veneering on the display table last week. A skateboard kit.
Maybe $50, including a hand powered pump. Seemed like an inexpensive
starter kit.

Patriarch

Inexpensive right up to getting on the skateboard. Then itud be another
trip to the ER!

Lobby Dosser wrote in
news:5qYje.7271$6d.2972@trnddc02:

You mention 'vacuum bag', can those storage bags be used for this?

Probably, for smaller items. It's probably flimsy vinyl, though.


on Sun, 22 May 2005 22:56:59 -0500, the inscrutable Patriarch spake:

The local purveyor of all things woodworking had a starter kit for vacuum
veneering on the display table last week. A skateboard kit. Maybe $50,
including a hand powered pump. Seemed like an inexpensive starter kit.

Here's a link which has links to vinyl for bags, too.
(click on the DuraMax pic on the bag page)

http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm

Tap plastics has it a WHOLE lot cheaper, though:
http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=248
0.020" x 54" @ $4.15/yd.

Here's another source:
http://www.vacuum-press.com/bags.html

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The only reason I would take up exercising is || http://diversify.com
so that I could hear heavy breathing again. || Programmed Websites

Larry Jaques wrote:

Lobby Dosser wrote in
news:5qYje.7271$6d.2972@trnddc02:

You mention 'vacuum bag', can those storage bags be used for this?

Probably, for smaller items. It's probably flimsy vinyl, though.


on Sun, 22 May 2005 22:56:59 -0500, the inscrutable Patriarch spake:

The local purveyor of all things woodworking had a starter kit for
vacuum veneering on the display table last week. A skateboard kit.
Maybe $50, including a hand powered pump. Seemed like an inexpensive
starter kit.

Here's a link which has links to vinyl for bags, too.
(click on the DuraMax pic on the bag page)

http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm

Tap plastics has it a WHOLE lot cheaper, though:
http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=248
0.020" x 54" @ $4.15/yd.

Here's another source:
http://www.vacuum-press.com/bags.html

Thanks for the links.

I've tried that angle. Doesn't work. Response precisely as you stated
"but you never do ...". Usually followed by reciting a list of the stuff
that I "could always sell later on ebay ..." and is still on the
premises.

Ah but that means that you must have succeeded with this strategy in
the past. My SWMBO does have a degree in rocket science from MIT so I
don't even get to try it the first time.

Have you tried the 'it turned out to be much more useful than I
expected' gambit?

"Phillip Hallam-Baker" wrote:

I've tried that angle. Doesn't work. Response precisely as you stated
"but you never do ...". Usually followed by reciting a list of the
stuff that I "could always sell later on ebay ..." and is still on the
premises.

Ah but that means that you must have succeeded with this strategy in
the past. My SWMBO does have a degree in rocket science from MIT so I
don't even get to try it the first time.

Have you tried the 'it turned out to be much more useful than I
expected' gambit?



Just did that yesterday. Even demonstrated the usefulness. It Worked!

On the subject of vaccum bags, I read the Taunton book on workbenches
in Borders, there is a piece in it bout making a vaccum bag to make a
torsion box. They mention special vaccum bag tape used in the aircraft
industry. Anyone know what this would be and where to get it? Its the
type of thing where you really need a brand name.

On 27 May 2005 07:46:38 -0700, the inscrutable "Phillip Hallam-Baker"
spake:

On the subject of vaccum bags, I read the Taunton book on workbenches
in Borders, there is a piece in it bout making a vaccum bag to make a
torsion box. They mention special vaccum bag tape used in the aircraft
industry. Anyone know what this would be and where to get it? Its the
type of thing where you really need a brand name.

See this site for other options: (vinyl cement, etc.)
http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm


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