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'My' (given to next door by a builder, left when nextdoor moved, 'rescued'
before new people arrived) is about shot. The pan is OK but the chassis is
rusted through in critical places and will break soon. I looked at
strengthening the affected bits but I don't have the material or equipment.

It's at least 30 years old and was used on building sites until next door
had it. It's really well made and rather heavy (helped by the layer of
mortar inside it) - I doubt that a new one would be as good.

I need something robust, not the twee domestic sort, but can't find
anything. Ebay, Amazon, nothing good. Builders merchants, same things but
twice the price.
Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of those
available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big. Capable of
carrying 150kg+.

Cheers.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:
'My' (given to next door by a builder, left when nextdoor moved, 'rescued'
before new people arrived) is about shot. The pan is OK but the chassis is
rusted through in critical places and will break soon. I looked at
strengthening the affected bits but I don't have the material or equipment.

It's at least 30 years old and was used on building sites until next door
had it. It's really well made and rather heavy (helped by the layer of
mortar inside it) - I doubt that a new one would be as good.

I need something robust, not the twee domestic sort, but can't find
anything. Ebay, Amazon, nothing good. Builders merchants, same things but
twice the price.
Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of those
available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big. Capable of
carrying 150kg+.

Cheers.

I have a couple of the substantial old-fashioned ones where the pan is
made from folded and spot welded steel sheet, a quick google suggests
that these days they are all made from thinner pressed steel. But this
outfit seems to have some heavy duty ones with solid wheels (at a price).

https://www.wheelbarrows.co.uk/build...elbarrows.html
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On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:
'My' (given to next door by a builder, left when nextdoor moved, 'rescued'
before new people arrived) is about shot. The pan is OK but the chassis is
rusted through in critical places and will break soon. I looked at
strengthening the affected bits but I don't have the material or equipment.

It's at least 30 years old and was used on building sites until next door
had it. It's really well made and rather heavy (helped by the layer of
mortar inside it) - I doubt that a new one would be as good.

I need something robust, not the twee domestic sort, but can't find
anything. Ebay, Amazon, nothing good. Builders merchants, same things but
twice the price.
Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of those
available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big. Capable of
carrying 150kg+.


Go for a barrow with *two* wheels rather than one - much less likely to
tip over, spilling its contents where you don't want them to be spilled.

--
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https://www.avg.com

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On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 22:37:57 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:
'My' (given to next door by a builder, left when nextdoor moved, 'rescued'
before new people arrived) is about shot. The pan is OK but the chassis is
rusted through in critical places and will break soon. I looked at
strengthening the affected bits but I don't have the material or equipment.

It's at least 30 years old and was used on building sites until next door
had it. It's really well made and rather heavy (helped by the layer of
mortar inside it) - I doubt that a new one would be as good.

I need something robust, not the twee domestic sort, but can't find
anything. Ebay, Amazon, nothing good. Builders merchants, same things but
twice the price.
Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of those
available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big. Capable of
carrying 150kg+.

Cheers.

I have a couple of the substantial old-fashioned ones where the pan is
made from folded and spot welded steel sheet, a quick google suggests
that these days they are all made from thinner pressed steel. But this
outfit seems to have some heavy duty ones with solid wheels (at a price).

https://www.wheelbarrows.co.uk/build...elbarrows.html


Some of those look OK but! the prices for pressed steel!
I always look at front, vertical struts, if fitted. Most are steel strip and
too thin. One barrow had thse and they werent even shaped or straight -
load-bearing almost zero. Current barrow has them but they're about 4x the
thickness of modern ones.
Although I can afford anything on that page I do wonder what is 'extra' over
shed etc. ones at up to 100 less.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway


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On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 23:04:37 +0100, NY wrote:

On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:
'My' (given to next door by a builder, left when nextdoor moved, 'rescued'
before new people arrived) is about shot. The pan is OK but the chassis is
rusted through in critical places and will break soon. I looked at
strengthening the affected bits but I don't have the material or equipment.

It's at least 30 years old and was used on building sites until next door
had it. It's really well made and rather heavy (helped by the layer of
mortar inside it) - I doubt that a new one would be as good.

I need something robust, not the twee domestic sort, but can't find
anything. Ebay, Amazon, nothing good. Builders merchants, same things but
twice the price.
Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of those
available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big. Capable of
carrying 150kg+.


Go for a barrow with *two* wheels rather than one - much less likely to
tip over, spilling its contents where you don't want them to be spilled.


Yes, I'm considering that - although it can be difficult/impossible to get
into some places.
I'd like a twin-wheeler with the wheels on about 6" - 10" centres - some
stability and still narrow. Could be done with the axle mounted as with one
wheel with more spacing.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 23:04:37 +0100, NY wrote:

On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:
Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of those
available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big. Capable
of
carrying 150kg+.


Go for a barrow with *two* wheels rather than one - much less likely to
tip over, spilling its contents where you don't want them to be spilled.


Yes, I'm considering that - although it can be difficult/impossible to get
into some places.
I'd like a twin-wheeler with the wheels on about 6" - 10" centres - some
stability and still narrow. Could be done with the axle mounted as with
one
wheel with more spacing.


Yes our wheelbarrow (Von Haus plastic pan, so not suitable for your 150 kg
loads!) has its wheels spaced a bit wider than I would like. A few times
I've clipped objects on the ground because the wheels seem to be very
slightly wider than the pan which is the thing you see when you are judging
clearance.

I wouldn't go back to a single-wheel barrow - the number of times I've had
those tip over on an axis between the single wheel and one of the two rear
"skids"...


We also have an electric barrow which is great, but that is three wheels:
the front two have broad treads and inflated tyres, but the rear wheel which
is used for steering is a narrow solid tyre which leaves grooves in our
gravel drive, or on the lawn in anything except very dry conditions. That
really should have a broad inflated tyre at the back - maybe harder to steer
but kinder to lawns and gravel. On gravel there is the added problem that
the rear wheel gets bogged down in the gravel and then the front wheels
cannot provide enough grip to pull the barrow along: I'm wise to that and
distribute the load as far as possible over the front axle.

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On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:

Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of those
available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big. Capable of
carrying 150kg+.


If you know anyone who frequents Costco ask them to have a look/keep an
eye out.
I've an absolute belter of a wheelbarrow from there.


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On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 11:53:58 +0100, R D S wrote:

On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:

Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of those
available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big. Capable of
carrying 150kg+.


If you know anyone who frequents Costco ask them to have a look/keep an
eye out.
I've an absolute belter of a wheelbarrow from there.


I don't, unfortunately. I thought that it was a Usanian company.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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On 24/04/2021 10:01, PeterC wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 22:37:57 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:
'My' (given to next door by a builder, left when nextdoor moved, 'rescued'
before new people arrived) is about shot. The pan is OK but the chassis is
rusted through in critical places and will break soon. I looked at
strengthening the affected bits but I don't have the material or equipment.

It's at least 30 years old and was used on building sites until next door
had it. It's really well made and rather heavy (helped by the layer of
mortar inside it) - I doubt that a new one would be as good.

I need something robust, not the twee domestic sort, but can't find
anything. Ebay, Amazon, nothing good. Builders merchants, same things but
twice the price.
Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of those
available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big. Capable of
carrying 150kg+.

Cheers.

I have a couple of the substantial old-fashioned ones where the pan is
made from folded and spot welded steel sheet, a quick google suggests
that these days they are all made from thinner pressed steel. But this
outfit seems to have some heavy duty ones with solid wheels (at a price).

https://www.wheelbarrows.co.uk/build...elbarrows.html


Some of those look OK but! the prices for pressed steel!
I always look at front, vertical struts, if fitted. Most are steel strip and
too thin. One barrow had thse and they werent even shaped or straight -
load-bearing almost zero. Current barrow has them but they're about 4x the
thickness of modern ones.
Although I can afford anything on that page I do wonder what is 'extra' over
shed etc. ones at up to £100 less.

I don't know the firm at all, but they do seem to talk the right
language about extra struts for stiffness. And they quote capacities in
kilograms as well as litres. I suspect you do actually get what you pay
for, with them. The big two-wheeler looks pretty substantial, and they
have a good choice of wheels.

On strut thickness, steel is expensive in the UK these days, have you
bought any lately? And they are mostly made in Britain.


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On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:46:40 +0100, newshound
wrote:

snip

On strut thickness, steel is expensive in the UK these days, have you
bought any lately? And they are mostly made in Britain.


This is something I've often come across when trying to replace
something old / good with something new / good, they really are made
down to a price these days (even if the price we might be wiling to
pay isn't an issue).

When I took the (fairly old, conventional flue) tumble dryer to bits
the other day, everything undid ok, there wasn't a spec of rust on any
of the (substantial) steelwork, no stripped threads, wonkey screws,
corroded wires / connectors and even the plastic didn't snap, all well
designed etc.

Depending on how bad the overall structural condition of this barrow
is (albeit rusting away in places) and given what you might have to
spend, *if* you could find something anywhere near equivalent, in the
spirit of DIY I might be interested to see if it could be recovered
using fiberglass bandage?

eg. I would remove the bucket, wheel, grips and any unboltable
bracketry and give the whole thing a good going over with a wire brush
(in an angle grinder / drill where suitable). Sand blasting would be
lovely of course. ;-)

Get some 2" wide 'woven roving' and tightly wrap in a spiral fashion
from one handle, round the frame and back to the other then wet out
with resin. Or, better, first give the known weak / stress points a
local layer first, then go over the whole thing as above, possibly a
couple of times.

Paint (if you want), re-assemble and use. You could even fill the
inside of the tubes with expanding foam (first) to ensure any holes
don't allow too much resin in and stop water getting in afterwards
(drilling extra holes in the top of the tubes (low stress area) where
necessary to be able to inject the foam).

Probably much easier than mucking about trying to weld rusty steel and
at least you know what you have once finished.

I've repaired a couple of motorcycle steel front mudguards that way
where they had rusted where the were joined to the inner fork brace /
bracket. Get it de rusted and clean and tape up the outside. Flood the
inner gaps with resin and loose fibreglass then glass over the bracket
and inside the mudguard. Fill the outside (now down onto sound
material underneath) sand and paint. Been on there 10 years now and
not a sign of rust or any fatigue or de lamination. ;-)

Cheers, T i m


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On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:26:46 +0100, PeterC wrote:

On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 11:53:58 +0100, R D S wrote:

On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:

Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of those
available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big. Capable
of carrying 150kg+.


If you know anyone who frequents Costco ask them to have a look/keep an
eye out.
I've an absolute belter of a wheelbarrow from there.


I don't, unfortunately. I thought that it was a Usanian company.


It is, but there are 29 branches in England, Wales and Scotland.

I find it well worth while, but the membership criteria are weird. If you
have a business you are straight in (and a little more cheaply).
Otherwise it's a bit over 30 quid a year, and I probably save that just
on cat food! But individual membership is limited to (well, quite a lot
of people). All public servants, education (I qualify) and various other
stuff (I qualify again as a chartered engineer).



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:26:46 +0100, PeterC wrote:


On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 11:53:58 +0100, R D S wrote:

On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:

Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of those
available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big. Capable
of carrying 150kg+.


If you know anyone who frequents Costco ask them to have a look/keep an
eye out.
I've an absolute belter of a wheelbarrow from there.


I don't, unfortunately. I thought that it was a Usanian company.


It is, but there are 29 branches in England, Wales and Scotland.


I find it well worth while, but the membership criteria are weird. If you
have a business you are straight in (and a little more cheaply).
Otherwise it's a bit over 30 quid a year, and I probably save that just
on cat food! But individual membership is limited to (well, quite a lot
of people). All public servants, education (I qualify) and various other
stuff (I qualify again as a chartered engineer).


So would I, but ir's 15 miles each way to the nearest, so I never bothered.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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On 25/04/2021 12:02, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:46:40 +0100, newshound
wrote:

snip

On strut thickness, steel is expensive in the UK these days, have you
bought any lately? And they are mostly made in Britain.


This is something I've often come across when trying to replace
something old / good with something new / good, they really are made
down to a price these days (even if the price we might be wiling to
pay isn't an issue).

When I took the (fairly old, conventional flue) tumble dryer to bits
the other day, everything undid ok, there wasn't a spec of rust on any
of the (substantial) steelwork, no stripped threads, wonkey screws,
corroded wires / connectors and even the plastic didn't snap, all well
designed etc.

Depending on how bad the overall structural condition of this barrow
is (albeit rusting away in places) and given what you might have to
spend, *if* you could find something anywhere near equivalent, in the
spirit of DIY I might be interested to see if it could be recovered
using fiberglass bandage?

eg. I would remove the bucket, wheel, grips and any unboltable
bracketry and give the whole thing a good going over with a wire brush
(in an angle grinder / drill where suitable). Sand blasting would be
lovely of course. ;-)

Get some 2" wide 'woven roving' and tightly wrap in a spiral fashion
from one handle, round the frame and back to the other then wet out
with resin. Or, better, first give the known weak / stress points a
local layer first, then go over the whole thing as above, possibly a
couple of times.

Paint (if you want), re-assemble and use. You could even fill the
inside of the tubes with expanding foam (first) to ensure any holes
don't allow too much resin in and stop water getting in afterwards
(drilling extra holes in the top of the tubes (low stress area) where
necessary to be able to inject the foam).

Probably much easier than mucking about trying to weld rusty steel and
at least you know what you have once finished.

I've repaired a couple of motorcycle steel front mudguards that way
where they had rusted where the were joined to the inner fork brace /
bracket. Get it de rusted and clean and tape up the outside. Flood the
inner gaps with resin and loose fibreglass then glass over the bracket
and inside the mudguard. Fill the outside (now down onto sound
material underneath) sand and paint. Been on there 10 years now and
not a sign of rust or any fatigue or de lamination. ;-)

Cheers, T i m


I think the problem with that if there is significant corrosion in a
load-bearing region is that the flexing will break the resin to steel
bond and eventually corrosion will occur underneath. I'd say your bike
mudguard brackets are not so highly stressed as some of the parts of the
barrow.

That said, I am all in favour of repairing things. It all depends on the
location and extent of the corrosion..
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On 24/04/2021 10:04, PeterC wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 23:04:37 +0100, NY wrote:

On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:
'My' (given to next door by a builder, left when nextdoor moved, 'rescued'
before new people arrived) is about shot. The pan is OK but the chassis is
rusted through in critical places and will break soon. I looked at
strengthening the affected bits but I don't have the material or equipment.

It's at least 30 years old and was used on building sites until next door
had it. It's really well made and rather heavy (helped by the layer of
mortar inside it) - I doubt that a new one would be as good.

I need something robust, not the twee domestic sort, but can't find
anything. Ebay, Amazon, nothing good. Builders merchants, same things but
twice the price.
Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of those
available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big. Capable of
carrying 150kg+.


Go for a barrow with *two* wheels rather than one - much less likely to
tip over, spilling its contents where you don't want them to be spilled.


Yes, I'm considering that - although it can be difficult/impossible to get
into some places.
I'd like a twin-wheeler with the wheels on about 6" - 10" centres - some
stability and still narrow. Could be done with the axle mounted as with one
wheel with more spacing.

Exactly. The default design is single wheeled for a good reason, for
example running up a scaffold plank. Two wheelers are great where the
access is reasonably flat and level, and you don't have to turn on a
sixpence.


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On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 20:17:16 +0100, newshound
wrote:
snip

I think the problem with that if there is significant corrosion in a
load-bearing region is that the flexing will break the resin to steel
bond and eventually corrosion will occur underneath.


It shouldn't should it (break the bond nor rust) as the fibreglass
would seal the outside and the foam the inside? I was thinking the
glass would be substantial enough (at the main stress points) to not
distort any more than the steel?

because I'd say your bike
mudguard brackets are not so highly stressed as some of the parts of the
barrow.


Well the bracket has to transfer (along with the axle) any difference
in loads / movement between the two fork legs (especially dynamic),
plus the fore-aft vibration and wind load of the mudguard itself.

That said, I am all in favour of repairing things. It all depends on the
location and extent of the corrosion..


Agreed, that's why I thought that doubling up (or maybe more) at all
the main stress / weak points.

I was thinking we end up with a fairly substantial (where it matters)
fibreglass tube frame, even if the steel was to rot away inside. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

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On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 15:58:00 +0100, charles wrote:

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:26:46 +0100, PeterC wrote:


On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 11:53:58 +0100, R D S wrote:

On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:

Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of
those available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite
big. Capable of carrying 150kg+.


If you know anyone who frequents Costco ask them to have a look/keep
an eye out.
I've an absolute belter of a wheelbarrow from there.

I don't, unfortunately. I thought that it was a Usanian company.


It is, but there are 29 branches in England, Wales and Scotland.


I find it well worth while, but the membership criteria are weird. If
you have a business you are straight in (and a little more cheaply).
Otherwise it's a bit over 30 quid a year, and I probably save that just
on cat food! But individual membership is limited to (well, quite a lot
of people). All public servants, education (I qualify) and various
other stuff (I qualify again as a chartered engineer).


So would I, but ir's 15 miles each way to the nearest, so I never
bothered.


45 miles each way for me, but I go every 3 months and do a very large
shop. It saves a lot of hassle for everyday items. Loo roll, kitchen
roll, cat food, bulk staples, etc...



--
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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 12:02:22 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:46:40 +0100, newshound
wrote:

snip

On strut thickness, steel is expensive in the UK these days, have you
bought any lately? And they are mostly made in Britain.


This is something I've often come across when trying to replace
something old / good with something new / good, they really are made
down to a price these days (even if the price we might be wiling to
pay isn't an issue).

When I took the (fairly old, conventional flue) tumble dryer to bits
the other day, everything undid ok, there wasn't a spec of rust on any
of the (substantial) steelwork, no stripped threads, wonkey screws,
corroded wires / connectors and even the plastic didn't snap, all well
designed etc.

Depending on how bad the overall structural condition of this barrow
is (albeit rusting away in places) and given what you might have to
spend, *if* you could find something anywhere near equivalent, in the
spirit of DIY I might be interested to see if it could be recovered
using fiberglass bandage?


snip
Thanks for the suggestions, but such a repair wouldnt withstand the forces
applied. There's very little metal left in some places and fibregalass
wouldn't take the twisting etc.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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PeterC wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 12:02:22 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:46:40 +0100, newshound
wrote:

snip

On strut thickness, steel is expensive in the UK these days, have you
bought any lately? And they are mostly made in Britain.


This is something I've often come across when trying to replace
something old / good with something new / good, they really are made
down to a price these days (even if the price we might be wiling to
pay isn't an issue).

When I took the (fairly old, conventional flue) tumble dryer to bits
the other day, everything undid ok, there wasn't a spec of rust on any
of the (substantial) steelwork, no stripped threads, wonkey screws,
corroded wires / connectors and even the plastic didn't snap, all well
designed etc.

Depending on how bad the overall structural condition of this barrow
is (albeit rusting away in places) and given what you might have to
spend, *if* you could find something anywhere near equivalent, in the
spirit of DIY I might be interested to see if it could be recovered
using fiberglass bandage?


snip
Thanks for the suggestions, but such a repair wouldnt withstand the forces
applied. There's very little metal left in some places and fibregalass
wouldn't take the twisting etc.


You could certainly make fibreglass strong enough but whether it would
be economical in either time or money I don't know. Properly built up
and layered fibreglass is a very strong material but it's very labour
intensive to make things out of fibreglass.

--
Chris Green
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On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 07:59:30 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 12:02:22 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:46:40 +0100, newshound
wrote:

snip

On strut thickness, steel is expensive in the UK these days, have you
bought any lately? And they are mostly made in Britain.


This is something I've often come across when trying to replace
something old / good with something new / good, they really are made
down to a price these days (even if the price we might be wiling to
pay isn't an issue).

When I took the (fairly old, conventional flue) tumble dryer to bits
the other day, everything undid ok, there wasn't a spec of rust on any
of the (substantial) steelwork, no stripped threads, wonkey screws,
corroded wires / connectors and even the plastic didn't snap, all well
designed etc.

Depending on how bad the overall structural condition of this barrow
is (albeit rusting away in places) and given what you might have to
spend, *if* you could find something anywhere near equivalent, in the
spirit of DIY I might be interested to see if it could be recovered
using fiberglass bandage?


snip
Thanks for the suggestions, but such a repair wouldnt withstand the forces
applied. There's very little metal left in some places and fibregalass
wouldn't take the twisting etc.


FWIW, I've been working with / in fibreglass for years and I'm pretty
sure that if applied the way I'm thinking (which may not be as you are
thinking g) I see no reason why it couldn't be sufficiently strong
(in all required dimensions)?

I mean, the fibreglass bumper-covers (on my fibreglass kitcar) aren't
that thick but are still pretty strong / stiff? Similar with the door
frames.

The hulls on all our fibreglass boats weren't very thick but were made
rigid by fibreglass 'ribs' moulded in to give them more a 3d section
(they often used a length of 'paper rope' that added little weight and
took the resin well but created the hollow core that gave the shape
that created the stiffness).

If we are talking the conventional wheelbarrow tubular chassis that
includes the handles and 'nose' to carry the front wheel, I imagine
the stresses in use would be:

A mainly upwards bending moment in the handles focused around the back
of the tub.

A mainly upwards bending moment in the section forward of the tub from
the wheel.

Dynamic variations on those bending moments as you move around (still
likely to be mostly upwards on both the handles (varying as you
balance the load) and definitely the front (unless you get it
airborne). ;-)

Also, there would be nothing stopping you glassing some steel into the
key areas for extra support, but it probably is a project best suited
to someone who has some experience with such materials (assuming you
don't and definitely 'a project' rather than the easiest solution).

Cheers, T i m



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On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 09:15:28 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

snip

Thanks for the suggestions, but such a repair wouldnt withstand the forces
applied. There's very little metal left in some places and fibregalass
wouldn't take the twisting etc.


You could certainly make fibreglass strong enough but whether it would
be economical in either time or money I don't know.


Agreed. If it were mine I'd give it a go but then I'm very familiar
with the processes and like a challenge. ;-)

Properly built up
and layered fibreglass is a very strong material


And of course you could take it further with carbon fibers these days.

but it's very labour
intensive to make things out of fibreglass.


To 'make', yes (plugs / moulds etc) but at the same times it's
actually quite easy (as in effort).

Best case situation.

Take barrow to bits.

Clean up frame (best case, get it shot blasted).

Inject frame with expanding foam to 1) seal it whilst working on it
and 2) stop too much resin going inside (and wasting it).

Reinforce any high strain / weak areas with steel strips, section
(exhaust tubing cut in half ?), or fibreglass.

'Spiral wrap' the entire frame with a woven 'bandage' (as easy as
putting a bandage on an arm etc). Resin in.

Rinse / repeat the above stage to build up a reasonable section,
depending on how bad it is overall.

Re assemble, use for ever, leave to the kids in your will. ;-)

As an aside and assuming the frame is still in once piece, any company
that makes car exhaust systems with a hydraulic pipe bender might be
able to duplicate the old frame for a reasonable price (if they aren't
that busy)?

Cheers, T i m



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On 25/04/2021 21:03, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 20:17:16 +0100, newshound
wrote:
snip

I think the problem with that if there is significant corrosion in a
load-bearing region is that the flexing will break the resin to steel
bond and eventually corrosion will occur underneath.


It shouldn't should it (break the bond nor rust) as the fibreglass
would seal the outside and the foam the inside? I was thinking the
glass would be substantial enough (at the main stress points) to not
distort any more than the steel?

because I'd say your bike
mudguard brackets are not so highly stressed as some of the parts of the
barrow.


Well the bracket has to transfer (along with the axle) any difference
in loads / movement between the two fork legs (especially dynamic),
plus the fore-aft vibration and wind load of the mudguard itself.

That said, I am all in favour of repairing things. It all depends on the
location and extent of the corrosion..


Agreed, that's why I thought that doubling up (or maybe more) at all
the main stress / weak points.

I was thinking we end up with a fairly substantial (where it matters)
fibreglass tube frame, even if the steel was to rot away inside. ;-)


The problem is that the elastic modulus of fibreglass is very much lower
than that of steel. So that once you are carrying a significant part of
the load in the fibreglass, it wants to stretch much more than the steel
does. This mis-match fractures the bond at the interface.
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On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 16:18:46 +0100, newshound
wrote:

snip

I was thinking we end up with a fairly substantial (where it matters)
fibreglass tube frame, even if the steel was to rot away inside. ;-)


The problem is that the elastic modulus of fibreglass is very much lower
than that of steel. So that once you are carrying a significant part of
the load in the fibreglass, it wants to stretch much more than the steel
does. This mis-match fractures the bond at the interface.


Understood ... *if* it does (at any level that matters etc).

From my personal experience and certainly when laminating clean
shot-blasted steel with fibreglass and where the glass is
proportionally substantial compared to the base steel, there hasn't
been any separation.

And with concentric tubes, there isn't anywhere the inner can really
go if tightly bonded inside a fibreglass skin is there?

I have actually been quite surprised how well fibreglass, laid up on
clean and 'rough' finished (eg, shot blasted or very course wire
wheel) steel really bonds.

The problem is that most people (not you of course g) don't 'get'
how clean or how good the prep and process needs to be (inc humidity /
temperature / pressure / viscosity) needs to be to give any form of
adhesive bond a fair chance.

Most things I glue together tend to stay together because I have a
reasonable ides of what's likely to work before I even give it a try.
[1] ;-)

Cheers, T i m

I have the daggerboard casing out of my smaller folding dinghy because
it leaked when I first tested it in my mates pool.

When I took it out (6 screws and some flexible compound) the bottom
surface on the casing was far from flat / uniform so I have sanded it
down till it was (on my linisher). It's not flat as it has to follow
the curved contour of the hogpiece so I have bought some hardwood
sheet about the same thickness as the material I had to remove that I
now need to bond to the bottom of the existing (marine ply) casing.

To give that the best chance, I need to first pre-bend (steamer) the
plank to the same curvature (2D luckily) as the hogpiece then bond
with a strong and fully waterproof adhesive (probably a two part
resin) and PB / stainless screws to the casing (that will be left in
there) .

Sand, varnish and then re-fit into the boat by making up a 'wet'
gasket of CT1 that will be slightly tightened once cured to give it
some compression. It can't be bonded ''hard' as the hogpiece flexes
quite a bit between the folded and unfolded states. Also, being a
folding boat it's all a bit 'live' so anything acting as a seal needs
to have some give in it.
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On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 07:59:30 +0100, PeterC wrote:

On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 12:02:22 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:46:40 +0100, newshound
wrote:

snip

On strut thickness, steel is expensive in the UK these days, have you
bought any lately? And they are mostly made in Britain.


This is something I've often come across when trying to replace
something old / good with something new / good, they really are made
down to a price these days (even if the price we might be wiling to pay
isn't an issue).

When I took the (fairly old, conventional flue) tumble dryer to bits
the other day, everything undid ok, there wasn't a spec of rust on any
of the (substantial) steelwork, no stripped threads, wonkey screws,
corroded wires / connectors and even the plastic didn't snap, all well
designed etc.

Depending on how bad the overall structural condition of this barrow is
(albeit rusting away in places) and given what you might have to spend,
*if* you could find something anywhere near equivalent, in the spirit
of DIY I might be interested to see if it could be recovered using
fiberglass bandage?


snip
Thanks for the suggestions, but such a repair wouldnt withstand the
forces applied. There's very little metal left in some places and
fibregalass wouldn't take the twisting etc.


Have you looked for a local blacksmith?

Our local forge will fix/fabricate almost anything, and very reasonable
priced.

Cheers



Dave R


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On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 20:23:38 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 24/04/2021 10:04, PeterC wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 23:04:37 +0100, NY wrote:

On 23/04/2021 22:28, PeterC wrote:
'My' (given to next door by a builder, left when nextdoor moved,
'rescued' before new people arrived) is about shot. The pan is OK but
the chassis is rusted through in critical places and will break soon.
I looked at strengthening the affected bits but I don't have the
material or equipment.

It's at least 30 years old and was used on building sites until next
door had it. It's really well made and rather heavy (helped by the
layer of mortar inside it) - I doubt that a new one would be as good.

I need something robust, not the twee domestic sort, but can't find
anything. Ebay, Amazon, nothing good. Builders merchants, same things
but twice the price.
Any pointers please to decent ones or, if none, the least bad of
those available? Need metal pan and prefer solid tyre and quite big.
Capable of carrying 150kg+.

Go for a barrow with *two* wheels rather than one - much less likely
to tip over, spilling its contents where you don't want them to be
spilled.


Yes, I'm considering that - although it can be difficult/impossible to
get into some places.
I'd like a twin-wheeler with the wheels on about 6" - 10" centres -
some stability and still narrow. Could be done with the axle mounted as
with one wheel with more spacing.

Exactly. The default design is single wheeled for a good reason, for
example running up a scaffold plank. Two wheelers are great where the
access is reasonably flat and level, and you don't have to turn on a
sixpence.


I learned my barrow running on building sites many years ago, and the
ability to run along a scaffold board, stop, and stand the barrow on the
nose to empty it was very useful. Swivel from side to side as well.

I remember builders using a shovel as a stop to help get the barrow up on
the nose, especially when running in concrete.

So I'm not sure how I would cope with multiple wheels!

Cheers


Dave R



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"David" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 20:23:38 +0100, newshound wrote:

Exactly. The default design is single wheeled for a good reason, for
example running up a scaffold plank. Two wheelers are great where the
access is reasonably flat and level, and you don't have to turn on a
sixpence.


Broadly speaking, the distinction between a wheelbarrow for gardening etc
and a wheelbarrow for the construction industry.

I learned my barrow running on building sites many years ago, and the
ability to run along a scaffold board, stop, and stand the barrow on the
nose to empty it was very useful. Swivel from side to side as well.


How much practice did it take (ie how many times did the barrow fall off the
plank when you were learning!) before you got the hang of running a
single-wheel vehicle along a plank that was not much wider than the wheel?

I've always admired the skill of the drivers who drive cars on and off car
transporters (*), without straying a few inches one way or the other and
letting one wheel fall off the narrow ramp - without any way of seeing where
the car's wheels are in relation to the ramps. I suppose the shallow lip on
the ramp helps to keep an errant wheel from falling off and makes it obvious
to the driver if he's strayed close to the edge. When my car had to be
collected by recovery driver onto a transporter (ie all wheels off the
ground) when it broke down, the driver made it look as if he could have done
it with his eyes closed.

(*) Eg on "Bangers and Cash".

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On 25/04/2021 14:18, Bob Eager wrote:

I find it well worth while, but the membership criteria are weird. If you
have a business you are straight in (and a little more cheaply).
Otherwise it's a bit over 30 quid a year, and I probably save that just
on cat food! But individual membership is limited to (well, quite a lot
of people). All public servants, education (I qualify) and various other
stuff (I qualify again as a chartered engineer).


In their home stores the other side of the pond, there is none of this.
Anyone can have a Costco membership.

The UK is perhaps strange, they must be protecting themselves from
problem customers or practising something that ensures the well heeled
get better rewarded with supply and discounts.

I used to be a member back when it was the place to acquire cheap Levi
Jeans and ready roasted chicken. That was before next day internet
shopping became a thing.

--
Adrian C
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On 26 Apr 2021 19:51:01 GMT, David wrote:

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 07:59:30 +0100, PeterC wrote:

On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 12:02:22 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:46:40 +0100, newshound
wrote:

snip

On strut thickness, steel is expensive in the UK these days, have you
bought any lately? And they are mostly made in Britain.

This is something I've often come across when trying to replace
something old / good with something new / good, they really are made
down to a price these days (even if the price we might be wiling to pay
isn't an issue).

When I took the (fairly old, conventional flue) tumble dryer to bits
the other day, everything undid ok, there wasn't a spec of rust on any
of the (substantial) steelwork, no stripped threads, wonkey screws,
corroded wires / connectors and even the plastic didn't snap, all well
designed etc.

Depending on how bad the overall structural condition of this barrow is
(albeit rusting away in places) and given what you might have to spend,
*if* you could find something anywhere near equivalent, in the spirit
of DIY I might be interested to see if it could be recovered using
fiberglass bandage?


snip
Thanks for the suggestions, but such a repair wouldnt withstand the
forces applied. There's very little metal left in some places and
fibregalass wouldn't take the twisting etc.


Have you looked for a local blacksmith?

Our local forge will fix/fabricate almost anything, and very reasonable
priced.

Cheers

Dave R

Be too expensive. Nearest one is about 4.5 miles away, so would need
collection and delivery. The amount of work is another factor and even then
there'd still be a wobbly wheel unless I could wrap something round the
axle.
Ah, quick search, no longer there and no results.


--
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The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 09:34:08 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

snip

The amount of work is another factor and even then
there'd still be a wobbly wheel


Did I miss the previous mention of that OOI? ;-)

unless I could wrap something round the
axle.


So is this a worn (collapsing?) wheel (/ bearing), axle or both Peter,
as having to also deal with that (properly) would all push the cost /
ease / time of any DIY repair up. ;-(

Cheers, T i m
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On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 05:01:53 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 25/04/2021 14:18, Bob Eager wrote:

I find it well worth while, but the membership criteria are weird. If
you have a business you are straight in (and a little more cheaply).
Otherwise it's a bit over 30 quid a year, and I probably save that just
on cat food! But individual membership is limited to (well, quite a lot
of people). All public servants, education (I qualify) and various
other stuff (I qualify again as a chartered engineer).


In their home stores the other side of the pond, there is none of this.
Anyone can have a Costco membership.

The UK is perhaps strange, they must be protecting themselves from
problem customers or practising something that ensures the well heeled
get better rewarded with supply and discounts.


You don't have to be well heeled; the criteria don't guarantee that at
all.

The one I go to is in Essex, and if I just say that the Costco is full of
'Essex girls' and 'Essex lads', I am not being derogatory to all Essex
people. But a lot of the occupations allowed don't have high pay scales.

Mind, some of the Essex lads are bricklayers, so, yes, they are well
heeled.


--
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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
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On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 10:46:01 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 09:34:08 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

snip

The amount of work is another factor and even then
there'd still be a wobbly wheel


Did I miss the previous mention of that OOI? ;-)

unless I could wrap something round the
axle.


So is this a worn (collapsing?) wheel (/ bearing), axle or both Peter,
as having to also deal with that (properly) would all push the cost /
ease / time of any DIY repair up. ;-(

Cheers, T i m


Wheel is sound, holes/axle worn, probably easy to do a bodge (I had a
Vincent where the forks' bushes had bits of oil can wrapped round them!).

I've decided against Walsall for two reasons:
Puncture-proof tyre started to fail after a few months; Waslsall no help
Not made for me - small grips and 'feet' close together so that easy to
catch with big feet (tick) and long legs (tick), according to reviews.

I'll go for one of these:
https://www.mowermagic.co.uk/acatalo....html#SID=5722
https://www.mowermagic.co.uk/acatalo....html#SID=5722
I don't know why the difference in price.
Some of the 'plastic' ones look good, but the pans are too fragile.
--
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The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 09:33:33 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

snip

Wheel is sound, holes/axle worn, probably easy to do a bodge


Yeah, they can work, given a fair wind and a splodge of grease. ;-)

(I had a
Vincent where the forks' bushes had bits of oil can wrapped round them!).


Luckily they only oscillate though a few degrees so often easier on
any repair than anything that fully rotates. Nice fix though. ;-)

I've decided against Walsall for two reasons:
Puncture-proof tyre started to fail after a few months; Waslsall no help


And that's the thing, the after sales service / attitude. 'Sorry sir,
it could be a bad tyre, let us send you a new one and see how you get
on with that ...' etc.

Not made for me - small grips


That was something I was thinking re the skinning with fibreglass, if
the tube diameter was already 'substantial' and the solution made them
'too big' (and there is such a thing).

and 'feet' close together so that easy to
catch with big feet (tick) and long legs (tick), according to reviews.


Yup, been there with all sorts of wheeled garden kit and it really
makes stuff difficult to mange comfortably (short steps / back
strain).

I'll go for one of these:
https://www.mowermagic.co.uk/acatalo....html#SID=5722
https://www.mowermagic.co.uk/acatalo....html#SID=5722
I don't know why the difference in price.


Flatproof V std inflated tyre?

Some of the 'plastic' ones look good, but the pans are too fragile.


And that's the thing isn't it, it really needs to be able to 'take'
anything you might throw at it (literally and within reason) without
breaking (even the steel will dent etc). At least being able to
collect up a pile of bricks and lob them in, from a couple of m away
and in the cold.

I'm guessing most of the plastic ones would be used in gardens or
where you are only likely to be carrying cement and want to be able to
knock it out when left in the barrow overnight. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Daughter got a pretty heavy barrow just before she closed her
Tree Surgery business and it's round Mums (unused). I'll have to check
it out when I go round there next.
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On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 13:28:42 +0100, T i m wrote:

p.s. Daughter got a pretty heavy barrow just before she closed her
Tree Surgery business and it's round Mums (unused). I'll have to check
it out when I go round there next.


Thanks, I appreciate your opinion on it.

Flatproof tyres are expensive; the 'punture-proof' aren't - they're easily
pierced but don't have tubes. Foam has to be very good before it doesn't
deteroriate and fall tp pieces.
I had some Clark's Hikers, didn't use them for several years. They were in a
cupboard with no exposure to sunlight. Next time on they just crumbled and
fell to bits. Methinks a barrow's wheel gets more exposure.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 17:33:02 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 13:28:42 +0100, T i m wrote:

p.s. Daughter got a pretty heavy barrow just before she closed her
Tree Surgery business and it's round Mums (unused). I'll have to check
it out when I go round there next.


Thanks, I appreciate your opinion on it.


Np.

Flatproof tyres are expensive; the 'punture-proof' aren't - they're easily
pierced but don't have tubes.


On that, I'm about to treat the tyres on a chipper daughter is going
to sell at some point with 'Punctureseal'. It's a pre-puncture,
fit-n-forget sealant that I have used for over 20 years on all sorts
of things (mostly on-road vehicles and trailers) and found it very
effective. A mate has also treated his employers ride-on-mower, fed up
with having to take a wheel into a local place to get thorn punctures
fixed on a weekly basis. It took quite a bit of sealant (balloon
tyres), but he didn't suffer a puncture from that point on. It also
seals the pores against porosity, the tyres don't need re-inflating up
often either.

https://www.punctureseal.com//products

Foam has to be very good before it doesn't
deteroriate and fall tp pieces.


I can imagine.

I had some Clark's Hikers, didn't use them for several years. They were in a
cupboard with no exposure to sunlight. Next time on they just crumbled and
fell to bits.


Yup, I've had that, as did the FIL. He put on a new pair old NOS shoes
and was just wearing the uppers by the end of the street. ;-)

*Apparently*, (according to a show shop insider) there was a batch of
rubber as used for shoe soles that was bad but used by many shoe
manufacturers for some time, a bit like the bad capacitor thing.

I took a brand new pair of trainers out of their box (after storing
them for a while till I wore the first pair out) and the soles broke
in half when I flexed them with my hands. ;-(

Methinks a barrow's wheel gets more exposure.


Quite, and I really don't think you can beat a pneumatic tyre on a
barrow for ease and comfort of use.

As you say, if the foam is soft enough to 'give' with anything below a
full (weight) load, the chances are it won't last that long after
being driven over sharp edges (rubble and the like).

Hard enough to be tough and it ends up being solid, especially with a
medium load and you feel every bump and can't easily start moving over
even small obstructions. Easy effect to see when you hit a small stone
with a reasonably loaded std in-store shopping trolley. ;-(

If you end up with an inflatable tyred barrow and want to run an
experiment with me, if we confirm the valve position I'll get a
suitably sized tube (normally 3.50x8?), treat it to a dose of
Punctureseal and stick it in the post (all foc), as long as you let us
know how it works out? ;-)

Cheers, T i m
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In message , PeterC
writes
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 13:28:42 +0100, T i m wrote:

p.s. Daughter got a pretty heavy barrow just before she closed her
Tree Surgery business and it's round Mums (unused). I'll have to check
it out when I go round there next.


Thanks, I appreciate your opinion on it.

Flatproof tyres are expensive; the 'punture-proof' aren't - they're easily
pierced but don't have tubes. Foam has to be very good before it doesn't
deteroriate and fall tp pieces.
I had some Clark's Hikers, didn't use them for several years. They were in a
cupboard with no exposure to sunlight. Next time on they just crumbled and
fell to bits. Methinks a barrow's wheel gets more exposure.


My *two ply* ones have all had a dose of puncture sealant. Semi
industrial tyres rarely puncture and will fit wheelbarrow rims.

--
Tim Lamb


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On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 18:51:58 +0100, T i m wrote:

Methinks a barrow's wheel gets more exposure.


Quite, and I really don't think you can beat a pneumatic tyre on a
barrow for ease and comfort of use.

As you say, if the foam is soft enough to 'give' with anything below a
full (weight) load, the chances are it won't last that long after
being driven over sharp edges (rubble and the like).

Hard enough to be tough and it ends up being solid, especially with a
medium load and you feel every bump and can't easily start moving over
even small obstructions. Easy effect to see when you hit a small stone
with a reasonably loaded std in-store shopping trolley. ;-(


The old barrow has a solid tyre, don't know if it's foam (and don't intend
to find out!) Could be useful as a bodge-on spare. It's at least 30 yo and
spent about 15 y on a building site (all guestmations). It is hard, though.

If you end up with an inflatable tyred barrow and want to run an
experiment with me, if we confirm the valve position I'll get a
suitably sized tube (normally 3.50x8?), treat it to a dose of
Punctureseal and stick it in the post (all foc), as long as you let us
know how it works out? ;-)


Thank you very much. It might take some time as use is intermittent.
A mate put something in the tubs on his time-trialer (in the '70s. Saved the
frequent pumping up, as they leak a bit at 7 bar, and saved unstitching
thetyre to get at the tube).
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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