We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to
€œdie€� after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €œlow
battery€� indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it
before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it’s started to
“die” after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue “low
battery” indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it
before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but
I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to
happen on the high power setting. Any ideas.

On 23/12/2019 14:25, Tim+ wrote:
We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to
€œdie€� after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €œlow
battery€� indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it
before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim




Pull out the long conical filter (purpley blue thing on the top) and
give it a good wash and dry.
Our bungs up about once a year and gives similar symptoms.

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started
to €œdie€? after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing
blue €œlow battery€? indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on
charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many
minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a
full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that
doesn't really account for your symptoms.

My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged on
all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more
sophisticated.

She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery
failed in quite a short period.

On 23/12/2019 15:09, Scott wrote:
On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to
€œdie€� after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €œlow
battery€� indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it
before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but
I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to
happen on the high power setting. Any ideas.

We've had 2 of those pieces of durge. Absolute crap after the first 12
to 18 months.

Fortunately bought the first one from Cost-Co but the battery died
within the year so we took it back to for a refund and bought a new one
to replace it.
Same thing a year later, blue light battery fault.

Dyson in their infinite wisdom have made the batteries a non-user
serviceable component (soldered in situ apparently). The Dyson rep in PC
World told us it was done to prevent "old ladies" from worrying about
replacing or "removing to recharge" battery packs but one could pay £80
and an engineer would come along and replace the battery but you
couldn't buy it to do yourself.

I suggested that it was an appalling design and any engineer with half a
brain would make the battery pack replaceable at a fair price which
might facilitate users to even purchase a 2nd battery to re-charge.

Dyson Rep. insisted it was company policy to have the battery as
non-removeable and would I be interested in the Dyson V10 cordless? To
which I replied "No, it's alright thanks I wouldn't touch Dyson cordless
ever again, I've taken the 2nd unit back to CostCo and replaced it with
an AirRam with removable battery pack"

On 23/12/2019 14:25, Tim+ wrote:
We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to
€œdie€� after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €œlow
battery€� indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it
before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

I had something similar in a well used one about three years old, took
it to be a dead battery. Mine is one of the ones where the battery is
easily removed. I didn't think the price was too silly.

On 23/12/2019 17:24, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it€„¢s started
to €œdie€? after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing
blue €œlow battery€? indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on
charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many
minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a
full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that
doesn't really account for your symptoms.

My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged on
all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more
sophisticated.

She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery
failed in quite a short period.

Mine hangs on its charger. I kind of assume that Dyson's scientists know
how to make "safe" chargers.

Chris Hogg wrote:
On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but itÂ’s started to
“die” after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue “low
battery” indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it
before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

Similar. I contacted Dyson about it and they suggested I take out the
battery and give the terminals a good clean, both those on the battery
itself and up inside the case. Much to my surprise, it improved things
significantly, but it's beginning to play up again now, so maybe time
for another clean...


Thanks. That sounds plausible. Ill give it a go.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Scott wrote:
On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but itÂ’s started to
“die” after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue “low
battery” indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it
before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but
I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to
happen on the high power setting. Any ideas.


There will be an obstruction somewhere if its pulsing regularly on and
off. Check the rubber flap at the base of the main €œtool socket€�. Its
designed to stop dirt falling out of the canister when you hang it up but
is prone to blockages. If its not that, check your filters.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Andy Bennet wrote:
On 23/12/2019 14:25, Tim+ wrote:
We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to
€œdie€� after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €œlow
battery€� indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it
before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim




Pull out the long conical filter (purpley blue thing on the top) and
give it a good wash and dry.
Our bungs up about once a year and gives similar symptoms.


Its not that. Im very familiar with the regular on/off pulsing that a
blockage causes. Mine doesnt pulse.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Pamela wrote:
On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started
to €œdie€� after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing
blue €œlow battery€� indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on
charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many
minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a
full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that
doesn't really account for your symptoms.


Maybe wrongly, I trust that with the amount Dyson charge, theyll have put
reasonably decent battery charging control circuitry in it.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Scott wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it’s started
to “dieâ€? after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing
blue “low batteryâ€? indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on
charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many
minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a
full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that
doesn't really account for your symptoms.

My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged on
all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more
sophisticated.

She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery
failed in quite a short period.


Not all cordless vacuum cleaners are created equal. ;-). Your typical cheap
€œDustbuster€� type handheld do seem to die quickly if left on charge in my
experience.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 23/12/2019 15:09, Scott wrote:
On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to
€œdie€� after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €œlow
battery€� indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it
before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but
I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to
happen on the high power setting. Any ideas.

We've had 2 of those pieces of durge. Absolute crap after the first 12
to 18 months.

Fortunately bought the first one from Cost-Co but the battery died
within the year so we took it back to for a refund and bought a new one
to replace it.
Same thing a year later, blue light battery fault.

Dyson in their infinite wisdom have made the batteries a non-user
serviceable component (soldered in situ apparently).

Um, not my one. Just how long ago are we talking about? Plenty of
replacement batteries available on the Dyson website.



The Dyson rep in PC
World told us it was done to prevent "old ladies" from worrying about
replacing or "removing to recharge" battery packs but one could pay £80
and an engineer would come along and replace the battery but you
couldn't buy it to do yourself.

I suggested that it was an appalling design and any engineer with half a
brain would make the battery pack replaceable at a fair price which
might facilitate users to even purchase a 2nd battery to re-charge.

Dyson Rep. insisted it was company policy to have the battery as
non-removeable and would I be interested in the Dyson V10 cordless? To
which I replied "No, it's alright thanks I wouldn't touch Dyson cordless
ever again, I've taken the 2nd unit back to CostCo and replaced it with
an AirRam with removable battery pack"

https://www.dyson.co.uk/search-resul...y&from=support

Sounds like the €œrep€� was very ill informed and was spouting ********.


Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 23/12/2019 17:55, newshound wrote:
Maybe laptops are more
sophisticated.

They are. Massively more sophisticated.

On 23/12/2019 18:05, Tim+ wrote:
Pamela wrote:
On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started
to €œdie€� after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing
blue €œlow battery€� indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on
charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many
minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a
full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that
doesn't really account for your symptoms.


Maybe wrongly, I trust that with the amount Dyson charge, theyll have put
reasonably decent battery charging control circuitry in it.

Tim

hahahahha


--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:09:26 +0000, Scott
wrote:


Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but
I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to
happen on the high power setting. Any ideas.

If you mean stopping and starting on a 1 second or so duty cycle,
that's what the one (V8 Animal) our daughter bought us and has since
borrowed back. ;-)

I showed her how to wash clean the main filter when it started doing
as I mention above as it ran ok without it. However, after washing and
drying the filter she said it was still doing the same so when up
there last I took the canister off, and there was quite a bit of hair
between the main intake and the canister ports. Cleared them out and
now it's running fine again.

Cheers, T i m

On 23/12/2019 18:05, Tim+ wrote:
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 23/12/2019 15:09, Scott wrote:
On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to
€œdie€� after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €œlow
battery€� indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it
before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but
I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to
happen on the high power setting. Any ideas.

We've had 2 of those pieces of durge. Absolute crap after the first 12
to 18 months.

Fortunately bought the first one from Cost-Co but the battery died
within the year so we took it back to for a refund and bought a new one
to replace it.
Same thing a year later, blue light battery fault.

Dyson in their infinite wisdom have made the batteries a non-user
serviceable component (soldered in situ apparently).

Um, not my one. Just how long ago are we talking about? Plenty of
replacement batteries available on the Dyson website.


And on ebay.

--
Michael Chare

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

snip

I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a
full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life,

Whilst it does, it's a toss up between (and already short) run-time in
use and battery life.

Some laptops (and some (/most / all?) EV's, have the ability to limit
the maximum charge to say 80% (of maximum capacity) to make the
battery last longer, at the expense of a shorter run-time.

The minimum charge cutoff is pretty common on most BMS's, including
the cells themselves in some cases.

Cheers, T i m

Sounds like a fault in the charger, or maybe the battery is on the way out
and confusing the charging system, ie going down when its fully charged with
no load and the charger is not set to notice until its removed and replaced
again. If you know how long it takes to fully charge, try that long before
you need it removing it and then replacing it on the charger.
It then is pretty certain the battery is self discharging if it works.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it's started to
"die" after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue "low
battery" indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it
before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Hmm, still think ome cell in the stack is self discharging.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it's started to
"die" after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue "low
battery" indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it
before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

Similar. I contacted Dyson about it and they suggested I take out the
battery and give the terminals a good clean, both those on the battery
itself and up inside the case. Much to my surprise, it improved things
significantly, but it's beginning to play up again now, so maybe time
for another clean...

--

Chris

So you need a hair extraction tool!
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:09:26 +0000, Scott
wrote:


Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but
I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to
happen on the high power setting. Any ideas.

If you mean stopping and starting on a 1 second or so duty cycle,
that's what the one (V8 Animal) our daughter bought us and has since
borrowed back. ;-)

I showed her how to wash clean the main filter when it started doing
as I mention above as it ran ok without it. However, after washing and
drying the filter she said it was still doing the same so when up
there last I took the canister off, and there was quite a bit of hair
between the main intake and the canister ports. Cleared them out and
now it's running fine again.

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 20:23:37 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote:

So you need a hair extraction tool!

I don't, mine went years ago. ;-)

Daughter is pretty good at getting hair off the rollers but hadn't
really looked past the external bits and the filter.

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:29:40 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 19:42 23 Dec 2019, T i m wrote:

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

snip

I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because
a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life,

Whilst it does, it's a toss up between (and already short) run-time in
use and battery life.

Some laptops (and some (/most / all?) EV's, have the ability to limit
the maximum charge to say 80% (of maximum capacity) to make the battery
last longer, at the expense of a shorter run-time.

The minimum charge cutoff is pretty common on most BMS's, including the
cells themselves in some cases.


As I understand it, manufacturers design the charging cutoff to allow the
maximum charge in order to satisfy consumers who demand the longest runtime
possible.

Yes, except manufacturers of EV's and (some that I know of) laptops
.... and who knows what else?

My point here is that unless we know what's going on behind the
scenes, we can only assume how the charging is managed.

I'm currently working on a Samsung laptop for a friend and I noticed
that has an option in the BIOS to limit the maximun charge to 80% to
prolong the battery life. How many other laptops (or phones etc) may
also give you the option or do it by default?

I think Tesla will sell you a replacement EV battery at a much reduced
cost if you are able to get the existing one up to a specific number
of miles / years. To do this the owner would have to manage the
battery carefully and that might include ensuring the max and min
charge levels are not exceeded. Obviously they want owners to get the
maximum lifespan out of their batteries as it looks good on their PR
and is likely to reduce any warranty claims (compared when the battery
is used 'hard').

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:25:11 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 17:55 23 Dec 2019, newshound wrote:

On 23/12/2019 17:24, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it€„¢s
started to €œdie€? after just 10-15 seconds of use and
displays a flashing blue €œlow battery€? indicator. The
thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back
to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the
battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time
because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life,
although that doesn't really account for your symptoms.

My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged on
all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more
sophisticated.

She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery
failed in quite a short period.

Mine hangs on its charger. I kind of assume that Dyson's scientists know
how to make "safe" chargers.

The issue is not safety as lithium ions batteries and chargers are usually
well protected but that the battery is stressed when it contains a full
charge. I'm told it also physically swells.

Those smartphone users trying to conserve lithium ion batteries will not
charge above 80% or so.

I thought the software took care of that by its definition of 100%.

A Dyson doesn't offer the same degree of control
but leaving it on charge the whole time continually keeps topping up in
the most stressful way.

On 23/12/2019 22:25, Pamela wrote:
On 17:55 23 Dec 2019, newshound wrote:


The issue is not safety as lithium ions batteries and chargers are usually
well protected but that the battery is stressed when it contains a full
charge. I'm told it also physically swells.

Those smartphone users trying to conserve lithium ion batteries will not
charge above 80% or so. A Dyson doesn't offer the same degree of control
but leaving it on charge the whole time continually keeps topping up in
the most stressful way.

Citation? I don't doubt that the wall-wart feeding the bracket is very
basic, but doesn't the clever control stuff live inside the battery?

On 12:00 24 Dec 2019, newshound wrote:

On 23/12/2019 22:25, Pamela wrote:
On 17:55 23 Dec 2019, newshound wrote:


The issue is not safety as lithium ions batteries and chargers are
usually well protected but that the battery is stressed when it
contains a full charge. I'm told it also physically swells.

Those smartphone users trying to conserve lithium ion batteries will
not charge above 80% or so. A Dyson doesn't offer the same degree of
control but leaving it on charge the whole time continually keeps
topping up in the most stressful way.

Citation? I don't doubt that the wall-wart feeding the bracket is very
basic, but doesn't the clever control stuff live inside the battery?

Cites with breaks for clarity:

Lithium-ion operates safely within the designated operating voltages;
however, the battery becomes unstable if inadvertently charged to a
higher than specified voltage. Prolonged charging above 4.30V on a
Li-ion designed for 4.20V/cell will plate metallic lithium on the
anode.

The cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and
produces carbon dioxide (CO2).

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries


a Li-ion battery cycled within 75%-25% SoC (blue) would fade to 74%
capacity after 14,000 cycles.

If this battery were charged to 85% with same depth-of-discharge
(green), the capacity would drop to 64% at 14,000 cycles,

and with a 100% charge with same DoD [depth of discharge] (black), the
capacity would drop to 48%.

For unknown reasons, real-life expectancy tends to be lower than in
simulated modeling. Environmental conditions, not cycling alone, govern
the longevity of lithium-ion batteries.

The worst situation is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated
temperatures. Battery packs do not die suddenly, but the runtime
gradually shortens as the capacity fades.

...

Environmental conditions, not cycling alone, govern the longevity of
lithium-ion batteries. The worst situation is keeping a fully charged
battery at elevated temperatures.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 15:09:37 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 09:57 24 Dec 2019, Scott wrote:

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:25:11 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 17:55 23 Dec 2019, newshound wrote:

On 23/12/2019 17:24, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but
it€„¢s started to €œdie€? after just 10-15 seconds of
use and displays a flashing blue €œlow battery€?
indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out
off it before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time
because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life,
although that doesn't really account for your symptoms.

My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged
on all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more
sophisticated.

She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery
failed in quite a short period.

Mine hangs on its charger. I kind of assume that Dyson's scientists
know how to make "safe" chargers.

The issue is not safety as lithium ions batteries and chargers are
usually well protected but that the battery is stressed when it contains
a full charge. I'm told it also physically swells.

Those smartphone users trying to conserve lithium ion batteries will not
charge above 80% or so.

I thought the software took care of that by its definition of 100%.

I'm no expert but as I understand it, lithium ion is so prone to
overheating and catching fire that there's safety protection against
dangerous overcharge in both cell and charger.

However overcharging stress occurs long before dangerous overcharge,
especially if temperature rises, and affects cell life more than safety.

I'm no expert either but I thought the purpose of the battery
management was not optimise the battery, not just to prevent dangerous
overcharging.

There are mixed messages on how adverse this is. There's better agreement
that low discharge is even worse.

Again, no expert but I thought battery life was defined by the number
of charge/discharge cycles and therefore if you kept topping up, the
battery would wear out more quickly.

Pamela quoted:

a Li-ion battery cycled within 75%-25% SoC (blue) would fade to 74%
capacity after 14,000 cycles.

If this battery were charged to 85% with same depth-of-discharge
(green), the capacity would drop to 64% at 14,000 cycles,

and with a 100% charge with same DoD [depth of discharge] (black), the
capacity would drop to 48%.

Assuming a charge cycle per day, I probably wouldn't care whether a
battery had 74%, 64% or 48% capacity left after 14 years ...

Andy Burns wrote:

Assuming a charge cycle per day, I probably wouldn't care whether a
battery had 74%, 64% or 48% capacity left after 14 years ...

sorry 14 thousand on the brain ... make that 38 years.

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:36:46 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:09:26 +0000, Scott
wrote:


Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but
I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to
happen on the high power setting. Any ideas.

If you mean stopping and starting on a 1 second or so duty cycle,
that's what the one (V8 Animal) our daughter bought us and has since
borrowed back. ;-)

Exactly that.

I showed her how to wash clean the main filter when it started doing
as I mention above as it ran ok without it.

Which is the mail filter? Is it the one at the top or the one at the
back?

However, after washing and
drying the filter she said it was still doing the same so when up
there last I took the canister off, and there was quite a bit of hair
between the main intake and the canister ports. Cleared them out and
now it's running fine again.

How do you take the canister off?

Thanks
Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 16:02:37 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 15:53 24 Dec 2019, Scott wrote:

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 15:09:37 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 09:57 24 Dec 2019, Scott wrote:

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:25:11 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 17:55 23 Dec 2019, newshound wrote:

On 23/12/2019 17:24, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote:

We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very
well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying.

It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but
it€„¢s started to €œdie€? after just 10-15 seconds
of use and displays a flashing blue €œlow battery€?
indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5
seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use
out off it before the battery really runs low.

Anyone else come across this?

Tim

I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time
because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life,
although that doesn't really account for your symptoms.

My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged
on all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more
sophisticated.

She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery
failed in quite a short period.

Mine hangs on its charger. I kind of assume that Dyson's scientists
know how to make "safe" chargers.

The issue is not safety as lithium ions batteries and chargers are
usually well protected but that the battery is stressed when it
contains a full charge. I'm told it also physically swells.

Those smartphone users trying to conserve lithium ion batteries will
not charge above 80% or so.

I thought the software took care of that by its definition of 100%.

I'm no expert but as I understand it, lithium ion is so prone to
overheating and catching fire that there's safety protection against
dangerous overcharge in both cell and charger.

However overcharging stress occurs long before dangerous overcharge,
especially if temperature rises, and affects cell life more than safety.


I'm no expert either but I thought the purpose of the battery management
was not optimise the battery, not just to prevent dangerous
overcharging.

I think that's the very point he a lithium ion battery left on charge
the whole time lost most of its capacity prematurely.

Unfortunate typo. I meant to say that the purpose of the battery
management was *TO* optimise the battery, not just to prevent
dangerous overcharging. Are you sure it is left 'on charge'? I
thought it was cut off by the management software once it reached its
optimum level..

There are mixed messages on how adverse this is. There's better
agreement that low discharge is even worse.

Again, no expert but I thought battery life was defined by the number
of charge/discharge cycles and therefore if you kept topping up, the
battery would wear out more quickly.

Entirely depends on the depth of discharge and what state of charge. I
believe satellite batteries are optimised for longevity by avoiding
extreme charge and discharge to such a degree that they are designed to
work only within a narrow band of charge.

I thought it depended on both factors.

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 16:07:28 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

On 16:00 24 Dec 2019, Andy Burns wrote:

Pamela quoted:

a Li-ion battery cycled within 75%-25% SoC (blue) would fade to 74%
capacity after 14,000 cycles.

If this battery were charged to 85% with same depth-of-discharge
(green), the capacity would drop to 64% at 14,000 cycles,

and with a 100% charge with same DoD [depth of discharge] (black), the
capacity would drop to 48%.

Assuming a charge cycle per day, I probably wouldn't care whether a
battery had 74%, 64% or 48% capacity left after 14 years ...

As mobile phone users know only too well:

For unknown reasons, real-life expectancy tends to be lower than in
simulated modeling. Environmental conditions, not cycling alone, govern
the longevity of lithium-ion batteries.

Well, most of my batteries have exceeded expectation (one lasting over
five years). I generally let the phone become quite well discharged
before putting it on charge. I am not convinced that an apparent full
discharge does any harm at all, as I assume the phone will shut down
before any harm comes to the battery.

There's a brisk trade in replacement batteries for phones only a few years
old which have lost a lot of capacity. Mine lost 10% capacity in 9 months
from new.

Is that abnormal? What do you believe the design life of a battery
is?

Pamela wrote:

There's a brisk trade in replacement batteries for phones only a few years
old which have lost a lot of capacity. Mine lost 10% capacity in 9 months
from new.

I think the last phone I bought a replacement battery for was a Sony K800i.

My previous phone ran out of updates after google's 3 years, was still
getting a day and a half per charge, dad's still using it over a year
later.

The phone before that only lived just over a year, but that was due to
interaction with a washing machine ...

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 16:08:08 +0000, Scott
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:36:46 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:09:26 +0000, Scott
wrote:


Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but
I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to
happen on the high power setting. Any ideas.

If you mean stopping and starting on a 1 second or so duty cycle,
that's what the one (V8 Animal) our daughter bought us and has since
borrowed back. ;-)

Exactly that.

I showed her how to wash clean the main filter when it started doing
as I mention above as it ran ok without it.

Which is the mail filter?

MaiN.

Is it the one at the top or the one at the
back?

Top, but we are talking of a V8 Animal (I think, it's not here) and
AFAIK, it's only got one filter.

However, after washing and
drying the filter she said it was still doing the same so when up
there last I took the canister off, and there was quite a bit of hair
between the main intake and the canister ports. Cleared them out and
now it's running fine again.

How do you take the canister off?

On ours it's just a slight twist whilst actioning the dump flap lever
but yours might be different.

Cheers, T i m

Pamela wrote:

Shame to see mobile phones
designed to be almost as disposable as Bic Biros.

I think google are working on that, because the android kernel is
heavily patched from stock, it's not unusual for a brand new phone to
run a 2 year old kernel, so even if they pick a longterm support
version, they generally have to support it themselves as it's run out
before the phone is 3 years old ... they're trying to get closer to
mainline ... maybe they'll edge it to 4 or 5 years ... my Nexus 5x felt
like it had a year or two left in it.

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 16:02:37 GMT, Pamela
wrote:

snip


I think that's the very point he a lithium ion battery left on charge
the whole time lost most of its capacity prematurely.

I think you would have to define 'Left on charge'?

From a user POV it might be considered 'on charge' because it's
plugged into the mains and the charging light is on but it might not
actually *be* charging the battery at that point.

In the old days, basic car chargers would come with an ammeter so you
could determine, from how much current it was supplying, how charged
the battery was.

'These days', few would understand what that meant (and partly why
they don't fit engine temperature gauges to some cars nowdays).

So, any reasonable battery charger these days is likely to either show
a 'Charged' LED or the led change from flashing (charging) to solid
(charged) and the charging current cut off.

It may well continue to monitor the battery voltage and *if* it should
drop back below a certain threshold, it may provide a top-up charge.
However, the self discharge rate of these modern cells is quite low
and so it wouldn't be doing so very often or for very long (and we
don't know what charge level that actually is).

My most sophisticated / computerised muti chemistry and voltage
charger allows you to set all these values and give full BMS of up to
10 cells in series.

There are mixed messages on how adverse this is. There's better
agreement that low discharge is even worse.

Again, no expert but I thought battery life was defined by the number
of charge/discharge cycles and therefore if you kept topping up, the
battery would wear out more quickly.

Entirely depends on the depth of discharge and what state of charge. I
believe satellite batteries are optimised for longevity by avoiding
extreme charge and discharge to such a degree that they are designed to
work only within a narrow band of charge.

Not just satellite batteries but any scenario where the primary goal
is to prolong battery life.

In most systems however, where the battery capacity is limited by
size, weight or cost, lifespan has to be a compromise between useable
capacity and said lifespan.

eg, Some people push their batteries to the (safe) extremes because
the cost of that is considered acceptable.

Radio modellers are one such example.

When I was a sponsored RC electric car racer the maximum speed and
duration of the car was set by the ability of the battery to give 100%
of it's charge of the duration of one race, because even if the
batteries only lasted 25 cycles at that usage (instead of maybe 1000),
that could still be one complete season (you typically ran multiple
battery packs) and was just part of the 'cost'.


Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 17:45:32 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 16:08:08 +0000, Scott
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:36:46 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:09:26 +0000, Scott
wrote:


Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but
I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to
happen on the high power setting. Any ideas.

If you mean stopping and starting on a 1 second or so duty cycle,
that's what the one (V8 Animal) our daughter bought us and has since
borrowed back. ;-)

Exactly that.

I showed her how to wash clean the main filter when it started doing
as I mention above as it ran ok without it.

Which is the mail filter?

MaiN.

Ooops

Is it the one at the top or the one at the
back?

Top, but we are talking of a V8 Animal (I think, it's not here) and
AFAIK, it's only got one filter.

Mine is an ordinary V8 but it has two filters - one that drops in from
the top and one that twists in at the back. I'll start with the
former. .

However, after washing and
drying the filter she said it was still doing the same so when up
there last I took the canister off, and there was quite a bit of hair
between the main intake and the canister ports. Cleared them out and
now it's running fine again.

How do you take the canister off?

On ours it's just a slight twist whilst actioning the dump flap lever
but yours might be different.

Will experiment.

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 18:34:58 +0000, Scott
wrote:

snip

Top, but we are talking of a V8 Animal (I think, it's not here) and
AFAIK, it's only got one filter.

Mine is an ordinary V8 but it has two filters - one that drops in from
the top and one that twists in at the back.

Hmm, I may have my model wrong then, having a quick Google it might be
a V6 Animal (like I said, it's not here). ;-(

I'll start with the
former. .

However, after washing and
drying the filter she said it was still doing the same so when up
there last I took the canister off, and there was quite a bit of hair
between the main intake and the canister ports. Cleared them out and
now it's running fine again.

How do you take the canister off?

On ours it's just a slight twist whilst actioning the dump flap lever
but yours might be different.

Will experiment.

Don't experiment too hard, in case yours doesn't come off that easily
but I'm guessing it *should* come of, for cleaning and whatnot?

If it doesn't (without a tool) what if you look into the main suction
port. Can you see if it's clear etc?

TBH, the stuff I pulled out of mine didn't seem particularly dense but
it did definitely make the machine cycle.

Cheers, T i m

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Pamela
wrote:

Shame to see mobile phones designed to be almost as
disposable as Bic Biros.

Personally I think Biros are more useful.

More fool you. I dont even own a biro anymore
and only use a sharpie to write the brew number
on the cap of the beer I have just bottled now.

"Pamela" wrote in message
...
On 18:50 24 Dec 2019, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Pamela
wrote:

Shame to see mobile phones designed to be almost as disposable as Bic
Biros.

Personally I think Biros are more useful.

Holding out against mobile phones is getting rare.

Yeah, I only know one person that stupid now.

Some of the youngest of my mates little kids don’t have them.

I was a late adopter but eventually sold my privacy in
exchange for utility, in the usual Faustian pact with Google.

Don’t need to sell any of it with an iphone.

Oldies have been rapidly catching up with youngsters:
http://www.statista.com/statistics/3...-the-uk-by-age